88 Seconds with Founder Jess Geevarghese - Forest Bathing

In my first episode as host, I’m joined by Jess Geevarghese, founder of Kaiel TX, to explore the grounding and restorative practice of forest bathing. Jess shares how mindful time in nature supports mental and emotional wellbeing, along with insights from her work in yoga, meditation, and holistic wellness. This conversation is an invitation to slow down, reconnect with nature, and cultivate presence in everyday life.

Learn more about Jess’s events and offerings at kaieltx.com, and stay connected through Kaiel TX’s events and community updates.

Transcript

Speaker 0:00

Hi, I'm Shital Dalwadi and you're listening to 88 Seconds with Devi. Today's episode is a special one for me. I'm joined by Jess Geevarghese, a mindfulness guide, nature-based wellness practitioner, and the founder of Kaiel Texas. The focus of our conversation today is forest bathing. And it's a topic close to my heart because Jess actually guided me through this experience herself. That experience stayed with me, and it's what inspired me to invite her on the podcast. Through her work, Jess helps people reconnect with their senses, their bodies, and the natural world through practices like forest bathing, meditation, and mindful movement. I'm really excited to share this conversation with you. Let's begin. I want people to kind of uh feel and know what this experience is uh of forest bathing. So thank you so much for joining me today. You're welcome. It's such a pleasure. For being with you, the first time. I help people reconnect to their bodies, to their senses, to their lives, to their minds, to their spirit. And also in the case of forest fading, um reconnecting within government. But I'm a yoga teacher and a meditation teacher, and I all those titles. Um I uh yeah, so there are all these like eyes, I am that, I am that, but on a broad level, it's just sort of helping people remember, remember themselves. I really shouldn't yeah, you know, the the I've always been interested in sort of the underlying, like the appearance and the underlying form behind the appearance. So, you know, like you you s you see a person and on the like top lot, like sort of broad level, you see that they're a person and they're you know wearing this or that or that. But then you go, we start talking to them, you go a little deeper, and then there's this sort of there's this world, they're like within them. And um, I've always just been interested and sort of been curious about other people and just the world in general. But in 1998, I uh lived in London, and one of my colleagues invited me to a meditation center, and I was like, I've never really meditated before, so let's do it. And it was so fascinating. We were in this huge circle, and we were on opposite sides of the circle, and I was in eyes flows meditation, and at some point I opened my eyes when she was looking at me, and I was like, and then we just like smiled at each other, and I closed my eyes and went back to the meditation. And um then at the end when we were walking out, I was like, it's so funny, you were looking at me doing that. She's like, No, you were looking at me. And I was like, wait, what? And it it seemed as though at the same time we had opened our eyes and looked at each other. And and I was like, oh, that's weird, what's going on, you know? Uh so fascinating. And then um I moved to San Francisco and I had saw, I went to an intuitive that a friend recommended um to someone who sort of picks up on things, a clear glance, so to speak. And she was like, if you haven't started meditating, you should start meditating. And then I'm like, okay, all right, I can do that. Um, so I started my meditation practice then. Uh so this is like 2000, and just through off and on and through a variety of synchronicities, I met my teacher in 2009 uh and worked with him until his test in 2023. Yeah. So um meditation has been a large part of my wellness practice. Um and I just realized all of the changes that were happening on a deeper level for me. Um I wanted other people to experience that. And so that's when I, after a few years of working with my teacher, if I started teaching. Would you show the name of a teacher? Uh yes. I mean his name is Alex Ghan. Um, and he is so below the radar. You look you if you looked at him, you'd be like, is this man homeless? Uh he just he had this, I wasn't there, but a good friend of mine who was part of the group that I was in. She was walking with him in a park in New York City and a butterfly. It was like he presented that much stillness. You know, it was just so powerful, and people just found out about him through word of mouth and different. Is there a specific type of meditation that we learned? Is there isn't a name for it. It's it was it's a silent practice. Um, but you know, he followed the teachings of Gurjief, who is uh was a spiritual teacher in the like 30s, 40s, 50s during that time period. Um but I don't I I don't necessarily ascribe to that you know sort of particular uh there I there's not one teaching that I'm sort of upset on. So yeah. At the same way, people ask like what kind of uh technique do we use and point of a little bit of everything that has come from life. I feel like that level of curiosity um to connect as you said. Yeah, um can tell me a little bit about your space that you've created, what inspired you to create? So kind of in my family's language, so I'm from Kerala and um in Malayalam it's like really truthful pronoun pronunciation is Kayu. Uh it means um in your hands. And so if you've seen my logo, it's a hand with like a sort of a flowering plant coming out of it. It is um is like your well-being and your flourish flourishment is in your hands. And so I, as I mentioned, I really wanted to bring everything that I had learned and experienced and um to other people. And um when I moved to Houston in 2017 from New York, I um uh decided to sort of really pursue this. I moved here to take care of my dad and my uncle, who were in their 80s at the time, and then who lived into their mid-90s. Um, and that was a really sort of it was a blessing and privilege to be to be able to be there with them. And it gave me the opportunity to sort of build out my space and create a um a center for just a reconnect. Where I host um yoga classes online and in person, and then um meditation classes and retreats. I just had a New Year's retreat. Um just encouraging people to sort of come back to themselves and move off of autopilot because most of us are just sort of walking around in the world in our like bubble and uh just conditioning, you know, we're conditioned to do things certain ways, and the more that it's it's scary, but you know, when you sort of dig dig a little deeper and you come off of autopilot, yeah. I mean, you just sort of see the world is a symphony, yeah. Um I I like how you said that it's a little bit scary. It's not the first thing that would come to mind if you said you need to come off autopilot, but feel like a really safe way of doing that or nurturing way of doing that phase with forest dating.

Speaker 2 9:18

Yeah.

Speaker 9:19

It kind of uh um yeah, it's just a lot less scary. And you feel helpful doing it. So um you guided me on human first forest dating experience, and um, I know you shared a lot of different times. I'd like you to share uh Pierre as well. Um, can you share a little bit about what forest dating is, where it originally? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um it is a Japanese, originally a Japanese practice, and the the actual Japanese is Shinrin Yoku, which means horse bath. Uh and so it came out, it's actually like it's a relatively new practice, which is weird to say because I think prior to the 1980s, prior to sort of this industrialization, we were all for spaming without really sort of knowing about it. Uh, but it is just like a rise of urbanization in Japan. A lot of people were working in factories and highly stressed out, and it we ended up um it was uh like a mental health issue. And um, so some scientists and researchers came together and like how can we how can we sort of uh address this public health um issue? And the a came up with this idea of forest baiting, which is uh really the idea of going into nature, going into a forest, but not having an agenda except just being and serving to open up your senses. Um practice the adhajitruth was about seeing things, being curious, listening to things, feeling things, smelling things, and really using your senses to bring yourself back to God and take using your mind to take you out of your mind. A lot of you can walk into a forest and just be ruminating, and you're physically in the space, but you're not mentally there. And so the guided practice is about getting yourself mentally into the forest. And the lovely thing is is that you know, because our society is like, okay, now this is great, we feel the impact, but is it really going to be good? Okay, everything we need's like hard science behind it for like try it. And so there's this, so trees, and particularly in forests, and particularly in the pine forests and cyphus trees and um spruce trees, they give out uh something called phytoncides, and they are their volatile organic compounds that are protected for the trees. So it is antimicrobial, so if it protects trees against bacteria and fungi um and like other kinds of sort of predators for the trees. So it gives off this as a protective nature, but as humans, when we breathe that in, that helps is it basically is like medicine for us. There's a lot of it helps decrease sort of cortisol levels, but particularly sort of the science talks about how it reduce it basically helps you fight off like early stage tumors, um early stage tumors and um viruses. Uh it is it is really, you know, it is really medicine. And uh there's something called natural natural killer cells, and being in in nature in forests help you sort of increase that to help fight off stuff in your but even there's like strong evidence for just being 20 minutes outside in nature in a forest helps reduce your cortisol levels. Yeah, I think in the space that you work in, there is a lot of um this requirement to believe. Like, okay, um, what are the set of things here where I can believe something? But sometimes I feel like you just need to give yourself permission.

Speaker 2 14:01

Yeah.

Speaker 14:02

Just give yourself permission to go try something and see what evidence you find for yourself. Oh, I completely agree. Like I feel like a lot of us have lost a sense of curiosity. You know, it's like we have to be convinced of something. We can't it's easier to be convinced having someone tell you to be convinced of something versus you doing the work of creating your own your own opinion about a certain set of experiences. Yeah. We we forget that we have this and we grow this potential inside of us. Um and that's uh it kind of brings me to my next question. Is like we have this sort of equal off the show, right? And what are some things that you think happens when we forget where we come from? Yeah. Well, we're for sure with every generation sort of losing our trend of nature. I mean, I can even see it in my family, like my grandfather was a rice farmer in Kerala, and my dad spent um, you know, a good part of his life in India, and uh the first quarter of his life was really like oh my and then he moved into buildings and structures, and you know, he moved to America, and it was like there was a survival instinct, and you've got to do what you gotta do. And he used, you know, he I'm from Arkansas originally, and um he we bought a house with a little bit of land on it, so like his therapy was being outside. Um, you know, I think if he had his brothers, he'd be outside all the time, all the time, right? But you know, and then you come to me where if I wasn't really conscious and intentional about spending time afterwards, I'd be inside, inside of the OA studio, like you know, inside my car, inside offices where I um teach. So we are we're definitely losing that thread. And when we lose, you know, most of human history, our brain has evolved to um in correspondence to open sky, you know, changing light, the rhythm of the seasons. And as we spend more time indoors, on devices with artificial light, we're we're losing or adapting to that life as the generations go on, they won't find a need or feel a need. Yeah, or realize that like life, there's something really about being doors. Um and it'd be sad. It's so sad. It really is. Because I mean, our brains, our bodies really evolved with nature, and the more that we divorce ourselves from that, the more we lose ourselves. And I honestly, you know, I'm a social worker. Um I I honestly sort of feel like the things that I've heard about mental health issues, a lot of it can can sort of be addressed by just being in a chair, just like disconnecting, and there's as I said, there's a lot of tension about like, you know, I mean, even for me, when I forget my phone, I'm like, ooh, okay, like uh anxiety, yeah, a little bit of anxiety, and I can notice that and like okay, do I really need my phone? No, I'm gonna just put it away or not go back to the house to pick it up. Um, but I I uh I think that's fine without our phones, yeah. And I think after that initial like tension, then you ease into it. Yeah, yeah. And I just I really feel like kids can be outdoors more. There'd be a lot enough, obviously off of social media uh and devices, you know, pique their curiosity rates and sort of give them sensory richness, which we need. Yes. And I let my kids experience it for themselves. They wanted to, they felt like they were losing out all their friends who had cell phones and iPads um at a very age, and they felt like they were missing out on something. And so for a period of two or three months, I said, go ahead, use these things, of course, monitored. And then um, they were more irritable, they had less patience, uh, they weren't happy using a Gemma or not very happy. So then I would point that out to them and be like, see, you spent this much time on the iPad today and see how you're feeling. And just kept repeating it over and uh my sisters are here, so they can attest to this too. Is now he's reading a lot of books and spends um basically zero time on on um on iPad. And he more questions, he's more patient. He comes into the kitchen and like, what are you cooking? What are you doing? Um, he's more patient with his little cousins as well. Um, and uh my daughter as well, she is more interested in choreographing a dance or writing something, and it's just it really is a A huge impact in their life. Yeah. And and getting someone outside after they've been on an iPad for four hours. It's not easy. Bodies like this is this is nice, and your nervous system's kind of calm down and things. So um one of the things that you know it did was reveal these things about my kids being out in nature. Um we live in an area where there's tons of parts, so we have a choice. So I wanted to ask you in your experience, what have you seen clients where things have been revealed to them? And what emotions do you see coming up most of the time? Yeah, well, I'd have to say, so we're always, I think for most of us, insist. We are in a fight or flight sort of response. We're in this like stress response. We're like always trying to do the next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing, and something that the forest and being outside gives you gives me is this sense of um slowing down and sort of adjusting to the base of nature. So what I've seen with people that I've worked with before is that um when you when you start to slow down, all of the stuff that form that I didn't mention, that underlying stuff comes out. And that's not necessarily pretty, right? Like it's the grief, it's the anxiety, it's this unprocessed emotion that we all have, but because we're sort of fighting fires, we fight those fires and we ignore the rest of the stuff. And and sometimes it's a coping mechanism, like we create the drama so we don't have to have to continue, yes, you know. Um and uh so going out helps you sort of slow down in a way that is in some ways accessible because uh like it's non-threatening to go outside to a park, right? It's not non-threatening to like look at a tree or look at the ground or watch ants work, you know. Um, but it is the stuff that comes out in the practice, is the real the real discomfort. Um, and it's necessary if you want to move out of you know, like the life for most of us an unsustainable pattern. Yeah, yeah. So a friend of mine, Richita, who was um did a vision toward session, uh my my retreat was talking about um a rubber band and how we um you know rubber's a rubber band is pretty resilient. And um she was saying, and it just makes so much made so much sense to me that you know we're able to we get cold and we get stressed and then come back. We get pulled and we get stressed and we come back, and we have that resilience. However, just in the life that we leave, we get pulled, we get pulled, we get pulled, pulled, you know, and so finding finding that ability to come back to yourself to you know, to be stressed out and then to be able to sort of disengage and as you talked about earlier, sort of tune into your nervous system, get into that parasympathetic state is what a forest practice helps you do. It's like come come back to yourself, you come back, you get out of your mind. And why do you think that being still or doing nothing is so uncomfortable for so many people? Yeah, yeah. It's I mean, it's that thing like what is underneath, you know, like what haven't I unpacked yet? You know, when you walk out and you slow down for anything, it's just like okay, what's there? And in when we get stressed out, still for so many people when we get still and you get quiet, yes, you know, a lot of people will come into a space even if I've been doing a healing session for someone. Um, there's a lot of discomfort. Yeah. Um, because I'm asking them to be still obtained in the first couple sessions. I'll say you don't need to be still, you can talk all you want. You can talk all you want. And in that, there's still energy moving. Yeah, there's still transforming happening, but then slowly slowly used to be okay. That's it, yeah, and then get still. Yeah, well then again, I think I think for nervous systems, just because we're always in that stress response or stress activation, um it doesn't give us the opportunity, or are we looking for the opportunity to like dive deeper into what is why are we why are we creating the environment that we're in right now? Yeah, like why are we why are we making everything a drama? I think it goes back to what you said is a lack of curiosity. Yeah, right. So it's the lack of curiosity. It's hard to look at your emotions. It's hard to like look at to be really critical of like what am I doing the things that I feel will I like myself? You know, it comes down to like very, very sort of basic, basic ideas. And I guess you answer the question, that sounds really uncomfortable. Yeah, it's really coming to those and trying to answer those questions, yeah. Um, which is why I feel like having a mental health practitioner or someone to help you work through these things, there's lots of apps. Um, yeah. Some people want documentation, right? That there have been articles where people are like, I don't have the money or the time, or I don't want to go and talk to somebody about my problems, and so they go to an app. And that has created more issues for them because they're not there's not anybody to hold that space for you, right? You know, so um I'm really glad that you create a space like this for me. Yeah to come to and reconnect. JetF themes, and you know, this is I do stuff online, but I love to do stuff in person um because you know, like my energy, your energy, your energy, like we're all in a room together and it creates it creates a new space. Yeah. So I that's what I I really I feel like we if you can connect with someone on a sort of one-to-one basis, it changes, it changes things in ways that we don't really understand our conscious mind. Yeah. I thought that someone with a really stable nervous system is can be very healing just by being in their sense. Yes, yeah. I agree. When when you said getting into that stability of force bathing kind of helps us get there. Um, and some of the actions um you said is us connecting with nature, but how do we know if nature is connecting with us back to us? Um, because you said we're all energetic beings. What are uh do you feel like are some of the messages that nature tries to communicate from that? Yeah, yeah. Um I mean, I think that there is there's just an is-ness to nature, you know, like it's not trying to be something or become something, it just is. And I think the more that we can sort of look at our lives and the things that happen to us, the good things, the bad things, just is, and we we deal with it as they come, versus like having a narrative around everything. The more we can sort of see the narrative, the more like essentially like just how crazy it is. Like we created stories about everything everything, and that's how we you know, like that's how we make meaning out of the record of these stories, but then there are these like default stories that come from your childhood. There are default stories that come from experiences that you have, and when you can see them, then you have a choice to keep that story going, that move going, yeah, or stuff away. And I think that being nature, you just see that like you know, nature has its own time, it's heads has its own pace. And like I I know for myself, there are certain things that really just like I want to rush, I wanna like, I wanna get it done, do this, I want to accomplish this, or you know, uh, and when I go out into the forest, I'm more I remember I'm reminded of like everything has its time. You know, like if we listen to our intuition, you know, bringing it back to civic humans, if we listen to our intuition, we know when the time is right. Uh just like when a tree knows when to let go of a leaf. Yeah, you know, like it isn't there isn't like this big stuff. It's just like there's a time, yeah, and you let go, or the leaf lets go, or the tree lets go. I don't know. We I feel like we have this underlying script running this program that something's wrong, something's wrong, and we have to fix it. And then I feel like when I walk into forest weaving and I walk through, I feel like it's saying everything's okay. Yeah, everything's okay, everything's working, yeah. Um, it kind of calms us down. But is there one truth that the forest told you that you didn't want to hear? That you needed to hear. I mean, I love to be protective, yeah. Like that is I've got my to-do list, I love checking things off. Um so I like I feel like when I go out, and this is like this constant reminder for me, is like going out into the forest of like actually, you know, like things things take their time, yeah, you know, and that there is I'm also um an end of life duo, and um I I I work specifically in a very specific space in the duo space, which is working with people who are dying to help them transition on a like uh an emotional spiritual level. And um force is just this natural like reminder of the cycle of life that we we grow in certain periods and we decay in other periods. And again, it's just it's this isness like this, you know, it's it's what it is, as people say, you know, and there's something comforting about that, that you know, like I am just one thing like in a symphony, like I'm one instrument in a symphony, and then I'm not here, that symphony will still go on, and I'm part of that symphony, but I will decay, and from a physical, you know, from a mental standpoint, whatever it is that I share on the world will hopefully live on somebody or something or an experience, and that's what it is. That's beautiful. I think this is a really nice place to end our discussion today. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom here. Where can people find out more about your space? Um, so I have a private studio in Ulster Land. Um, and they can go to my website, which is Kyle, a I L T X.com. Uh, if you go backslash events, you'll see the different events that I've got going on in this space. Um, part of my practice, of my work is um doing corporate work. So my website focuses on the corporate stuff, but I have a few pages for the individual work that I do. And all this information will also be in the podcast description as well. So thank you so much. Lovely to be here. Thank you. Thank you so much for spending this time with us. I hope this conversation with Jess gave you a moment to slow down, breathe, and maybe even feel a little more connected to the world around you. If you're curious to explore forest bathing or Jess's work further, you can find her through Kyle, Texas, where she shares events and offerings rooted in mindfulness, movement, and nature. This has been 88 Seconds with Davy. I'm Sheetil Delawadi. And wherever you are, I hope you take a few moments today to step outside, notice your surroundings, and return to yourself. Until next time.