Craig's guest is Steve Friess, Hour Detroit News/Features Editor. The Magazine devotes a multi page spread this month to the one year anniversary of Michigan legalizing recreational marijuana. Some of the issues the magazine looks at include how the pandemic is impacting pot sales around the state; how Detroit is still trying to figure out how to make sure it's citizens get a foothold in the legal pot business; interviews with "budtenders"; and much more.
Craig's guest is Steve Friess, Hour Detroit News/Features Editor. The Magazine devotes a multi page spread this month to the one year anniversary of Michigan legalizing recreational marijuana. Some of the issues the magazine looks at include how the pandemic is impacting pot sales around the state; how Detroit is still trying to figure out how to make sure it's citizens get a foothold in the legal pot business; interviews with "budtenders"; and much more.
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Speaker 2:Greetings everybody. Welcome to the Craig Follies show on deadline Detroit. Thank you for joining me today. It is Tuesday, December 22nd. At this point in time, when you may not be listening, that's fine. Listen, whatever you want. That's the whole point of this on-demand thing, but Hey, I appreciate the fact that you are here at all. It is a big deal. Hopefully your holiday season is going well.
Speaker 1:Oh, you've got good plans coming for the next few days and, uh, can look forward to 2021 it's it's about time. Um, December 1st was an interesting date in the state had marked the one year anniversary of recreational marijuana in the state. Obviously a number of communities have gone forward with this. We've seen a lot of businesses pop up in communities all across Southeast Michigan, but Detroit is one of the places that has yet to keep pace with what some other communities are doing as they work out some aspects of their recreational marijuana plan in the city of Detroit. Well, our Detroit magazine decided to devote its cover story this week and, and a big section of the magazine to taking a look at what has happened in the state of Michigan over the course of that one year. And joining me right now to talk about it is Steve frees, who is the, our Detroit news features editor to talk about their cover story this month, taking a look at one year of legal pot here in Michigan, Steve, welcome to the Craig volley show. It's a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 3:Well, thanks for having me. This is great.
Speaker 1:You know, this is such an interesting industry to me in this date. Uh, you know, one year of, uh, the legalization now of recreational marijuana in Michigan, some cities have gotten this right. Others are still struggling with how to deal with it.
Speaker 3:Uh, let's just start with the overall status of the industry. It certainly seems as if the public is buying into this. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if there's such a thing as right and wrong in terms of how they're doing it. Obviously there are cities like, um, like Warren and, and Ferndale and a couple of others that, um, have jumped in quickly and Arbor for sure have jumped in quickly with licensing of, um, of dispensaries that are allowed for recreational cannabis in addition to med medicinal, um, CA cannabis. But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a year since and particularly Detroit, the biggest market of all is still trying to come up with a structure or act now implement a structure that will not allow outsiders to completely consume the industry. And the crazy part is that the way that the law was passed, which was the ballot initiative that passed in 2018, the first folks who were able to get licenses to sell recreational cannabis or the folks who already had medicinal licenses. And so in a way that sort of grandfathered in, or sort of embedded the folks who were already in business and it, it, it had a potential to seriously limit people who wanted to get into this industry and didn't want to sell medicinal marijuana, which has a whole other set of bureaucracy and the record keeping and regulation
Speaker 1:W exactly. Uh, and, and like I said, Detroit has been wrestling with this for a long time. Um, and, and trying to ensure that again, people who live in the city of Detroit are participating in the industry, uh, in the numbers that, uh, that the mayor and a number of city council members would like to see. This is not just a, you know, limited to this industry. This is a part of just about every development agreement that the city puts together at this point in time, but they have taken their time in this. Somebody even suggest that they have been slow walking. This isn't an attempt to, to make Detroit not necessarily the, the hotbed of, of recreational marijuana in the region, the way that it has been for some other sort of quote unquote sin industries. And I use that term very loosely here. Um, is there any indication that the city was purposely slow walking this so that Detroit didn't become, uh, like the, you know, a ground ground zero for, for recreational pot?
Speaker 3:I don't believe that that's not my impression. My impression is that they just struggled with how to create a structure that would allow for outsiders to, uh, to create a structure, to not allow outsiders, to take over the industry. And that's the trick here that's thick is that the, the state regulation had it so that the first people who could get licensed for recreational marijuana were the folks who had medicinal licenses. And so in the city of Detroit, where there are, I believe 46 medical marijuana dispensary, only four of them were owned by what is sort of loosely defined as like legacy Detroiters. And there's a variety of different ways that they defined who are legacy to try to raise. But it's essentially somebody who has lived in the city for a, a certain number of years. It depends a little bit on whether you were a, a convent or there are different minority. There are different explanations for how it works, but it's at least a decade or so that you've been living in the city and working in the city. Oh, uh, out of the last 30 years, you can be able to see Detroit. So what happened was that the, the state in the fall changed the regulation, which was allowed by the, um, by the state law. They changed the regulation to allow the licensure of recreational marijuana, um, providers, without having to take that other step of being medicinal. And so what that did was by waiting, it's all complicated, but by we're leading by not jumping right in, and the Iceland thing, folks, they gave themselves an opportunity to license, new cannabis sellers who are not already medical marijuana people. And that way they can provide those licenses to other folks, people who are from the city, they created a complicated structure where they are insisting that for recreational marijuana, they have a 51%, or at least half of the recreational sellers, recreational licensees must be these legacy Detroiters, which is, it's an interesting, and a very admirable effort to make sure that this sort of gold rush, this big flush new industry, that's about to develop, uh, that some of that wealth or a lot of that wealth or half of that wealth, I don't know, stays in the city and helps people who live in the city to develop wealth and businesses. The problem is that there's a bit of a math problem. You've got, they set a number of licenses at 75 licenses. They already have 46 medicinal licensees. And of those 42 are from outside of the city. If they, if they filled up all 75 of those licenses, they'd only have 38 licenses for legacy Detroiters and 37 for people who are from outside the city, but they'll never, they, they won't license them all at once anyways. So they'll do, if they get five licenses for legacy people, then they'll, they'll add five for the non-legacy and it's going to be a very slow development on account of that. It's, it's a little complicated. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Well, no, no, it makes sense. But I mean, you know, at the same time, I know there are a lot of people who have been operating in the city of Detroit who have been complaining about the slow pace of Detroit getting its ordinance together. I mean, this is a, you know, if you're, if you're only dealing in, in the medical world at this point in time, you've got competitors just on the other side of the border who are doing recreational sales, who are, you know, starting to build a loyal customer base.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's true. It's true. And there are, uh, various, um, recreational providers who are essentially saying that they're going to just avoid Detroit for now, um, because they got to get in line and they got to get in line behind the 42 medicinal marijuana dispensaries who are owned by non-legacy Detroiters before they can even get a license. And, and being licensed is so expensive and you have to pay all these tens of thousands of dollars in fees and all the rest of it. So there's a, there is a, um, a business barrier here to, um, some investment on the other side, it is still the largest city in the state. Um, and it is still, uh, it's still Detroit. So, you know, it's still a ton of money to be made in the city. If you can get one of these licenses and pursue it, it's just that they created a structure that they are, um, they are sticking with for the moment because they feel real, real strongly that the idea of allowing external business people to come into the city and suck up all of that revenue and take over this industry before local people or people who were, were, um, impacted by the war on drugs, by having criminal convictions for pot offenses, um, without, without allowing those people to get in on this, um, they feel like, you know, that ship will sail and it will never come back into port. So in a way, they're right, if they had, if they had gone ahead and started licensing these people who already had medical licenses and then the market would already be crowded and there wouldn't be any room for any new business people or new, uh, entrepreneurs or people of color.
Speaker 1:And I should remind folks, my guest right now is Steve free. C of course, is a, uh, features editor at D uh, our Detroit, uh, news and features editor. There. He is written a, taking a look at the one-year anniversary of recreational marijuana in the state of Michigan. Now, Steve, I mean, a number of communities were very, very concerned about how these businesses would look in their community. A number of communities said that they're not going to zone, uh, to allow these facilities, but you look at towns like Ferndale, where I am right now, there's, uh, three or four that are up and operating now, uh, the facilities they look nice, uh, they're drawing customers. They seem to be again, attracting tax revenue to the community. You get a sense that some of that reluctance is starting to fade away a little bit in some of these other communities that are seeing the success of some of these businesses and seeing that they're actually pretty good corporate citizens.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, they're obviously on their best behavior as of now, and they are, they're aiming for a higher end audience. I mean, a lot of these products are, are not sheep. Um, you know, the medical marijuana is going to be less expensive than the recreational, but it's not inexpensive. So, uh, you know, you are aiming for a type of a client that doesn't want to sort of wander into the darkest part of town, sort of worry about their car while they're browsing. Um, you know, I, I do think it's kind of funny because, you know, I'm, I'm relatively new to Michigan. I've been around the state for about eight or nine years now. And the whole party store industry are they're disgusting places. And there can be, you know, you have to go, you have to go into these places that you feel like you're going to take your life and your own hand. And I'm not talking about in the cities I'm talking about out here in Ypsilanti or in, or in Ann Arbor, they all look horrible. They all look like real dodgy places. And, and then there's all this talk about, Oh, with the, with the marijuana people, they're going to ruin the neighborhood.
Speaker 1:It's, it's, it's interesting though, to me that, um, you know, I, like I said, I drive by these places and I see cars lined up. They've got delivery options, you know, car card directly to your car. Uh, you don't have to go in if you don't want to, they have adapted well to, uh, some of the pandemic problems. And that seems to me that, that perhaps, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but perhaps the pandemic has impacted some of these stores in a way that maybe they didn't anticipate, like maybe they have more customers than they anticipated people coming out of the woodwork. So to speak
Speaker 3:Numbers do seem to show that there was a more robust, first year was statewide. Obviously you talked about the joint for a little bit, but the other places where they are already doing recreational and even merit medicinal, um, that the sales were pretty, pretty good in 20, 20 better impact than they, then they, whoever they are, um, had predicted or anticipated. So there is a sense that the pandemic, I mean, they did adapt. They were able to, uh, they, they got permission to style through car windows and things like that, that they had to, it does limit because you know, what you don't end up with is sort of impulse purchases, and you don't get people who come in looking for one strain and they walk out with like 20 bongs and, uh, and whatever else, they, you know, whatever other things they fell in, those places, the oils, no rest of it. You kind of, when you're, when you drive up to pick up your order, you've already ordered the already, you know, that the sale is done. Um, but you know, yeah. I mean, there is a sense that everybody's sort of stuck at home, uh, and, uh, it's very stressful. The whole, the whole experience of living through a pandemic is key, you know, whatever it takes to get the edge off. Um, and this was a new opportunity for a lot of people to try it
Speaker 1:W well, Stephen and I think one of the things that, uh, people who may be reentering this market for the first time since they were in college or something like that would be shocked at is the variety, I guess, that exists out there, how many different products there are. Um, and, and the level of expertise that exists within some of these stores to, to educate them about what it is they're about to embark upon here. You, you've got, uh, interviews in this issue with some of the quote unquote bud tenders out there, um, sort of the baristas of the pot world. Uh, and, and I love this, uh, they, they have a level of expertise about these sorts of things to educate people about what's going on. What are the things that they're telling you? Cause I know you interviewed a number of them for this piece. What are they telling you about what's out there and what's available right now?
Speaker 3:So this is actually a team effort from our Detroit. We had an entire, um, packets, of course, that's the way you do things over there with many different parts. So Ashley who's one of our staff writers. Uh, she did these interviews quick Q and A's and, you know, she asked them sort of how do you get to do this kind of job? And, uh, and then, um, yeah, there, there were recommendations that suggested that different strains of cannabis or different types of, you know, the CBD oil, which is the extract. That's not, um, it doesn't cause any kind of highs. It's just supposed to be sort of, uh, an ingredient that helps different types of things like a vitamin. Um, and, uh, and so there are people who believed that certain types of things are better for stress or pain or to help you sleep or to, I dunno, get you amorous. I it's a, it's a, it's a range of different types of things. I would certainly caution people that it's all suggestive. I, you know, it's, it's the same as when you go to a bar and somebody says, Oh yeah, the, the martini that'll, that'll get you laid or the, or, or, Oh, you don't want that one. It'll just put you to sleep. I mean, it's all alcohol or it's all, uh, cannabis. And so, you know, there are different different types and they do different things. And the way that they're grown, it can be different obviously is this similar to how there are many different varieties of wine? Um, you know, it's not all the same grapes. There are different grapes and there are different flower of, uh, of cannabis. So yeah, it is helpful and useful to kind of consult, um, somebody who knows something about these things and these folks are, are real experience in sort of holding the hands of, as you said, the people who, whose last experience with pot was, you know, their, their boyfriend's sisters, all who sold it on the corner or supplied it somehow. And the, the, the quality of the, of the, uh, cannabis and probably where it came from is in great, great mystery. Um, but yeah, it's, it's useful. And it's fun to talk to these folks because, you know, they have this whole new industry. I do roll my eyes a bit about these new portmanteaus, but there, but I guess it works, you know,
Speaker 1:Well, Steve frees my guest again, of our Detroit magazine, uh, they've got the one-year anniversary is basically their, their whole issues. Take them all, not the whole issue, but a big chunk of it is looking at the one-year anniversary of legal recreational cannabis here in the state of Michigan. Now, Steve, I mean, one of the things that people who were really advocating for legalization, not just at a state level, but on a national level were suggesting, is that, look, we need to take the wraps off the research that is going on, especially when it comes to the medical side of marijuana and with these federal regulations here, it restricts what we can and cannot research what we can learn and not learn about this. But now that we have recreational legal in Michigan, it's not just the medical research, but also just really frankly, the wraps have been taken off the, you know, uh, sort of the advancements that people can make when it comes to growing. Uh, you don't have to fear for somebody, you know, rating your house. If you've got a new lighting technique that might work. I mean, are we seeing innovation when it comes to the actual cultivation?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. You know, and, and, uh, I wonder if sometimes that, how much would you use that innovations? Where were things that, as you said, people were doing in their basements and now all of a sudden they can do in that loud, but we, uh, we visited a, um, a growth facility in, in Detroit that was a former farmer Jack's, um, warehouse. Uh, now it's been converted into a, into a pretty sprawling operation, a grow operation where they don't, they don't use soil, they use water, they do it hydroponically, which is a common, um, grow technique for a lot of vegetables in areas where you can't grow year round, uh, outside or in the ground. Um, and so the, the idea is in this case is to grow it within these really cool looking, uh, towers. So I'm like, I don't know. I think there were like eight or nine feet tall and they have like a hundred plans kind of stopped along the sides of them. And, uh, and it's all sort of very well-controlled with the nutrition for that, for the plants and a certain amount of water. And then these very cool lighting fixtures that kind of have this sort of psychedelic look. And I guess there's something to do with the distance from the plant and the amount of light and all the rest of it. You know, it's all, it's all farming, but it's all high tech farming. And, um, and so, you know, there, there are pros and cons. There, there are people who believe that growing hydroponically is very efficient and you end up with, uh, marijuana that flower that is a consistent product. They have many different strains, but at least, you know, when you do it a certain way, every time you get essentially the same amount of THC, which is the ma the drug inside of, of marijuana that causes the high and, and the mood changes and whatever. Um, but, um, but then on the other side, it, it's, it's a bit, it can be seen as a bit generic, a bit, um, bland and, and, and less, um, interesting, you know, it's the same way as I said, there are certain types of soils that make certain types of grapes, uh, and, and, and the way that you grow those grapes, uh, impact the way that various wines are. There are people who believe that growing in soil is, is important, even though it's more, uh, it's riskier, it's more labor and, um, you, uh, energy intensive. Um, but yeah, there's, there, there are many different permutations of how you go about growing. And there is plenty of research going on now as to whether a lot of the health claims in, uh, marijuana are, can, can be checked out, can, can be proven the way that other medications sure are proven.
Speaker 1:Well, well, Steve, I mean, I do want to talk about one last subject really on this. I mean, you know, there are always going to be naysayers about this. And I mean, look, I mean, reefer madness was one of the most effective propaganda films of all time back in the thirties, sort of, you know, set the tone for how people thought about this. Is there any indication that some of the concerns that people had about the legalization of recreational marijuana, about how it was going to add to the degradation of society, uh, are any of those things, are we seeing any sort of indication that this is having a negative impact?
Speaker 3:Not yet. I mean, you know, there's not really any indication that I've seen or any data that I've seen to show that, for example, people driving more impaired with this than they would have otherwise, um, or that younger people are getting into the cannabis world faster than they ever did. Um, yeah. I mean, at the moment, there, there doesn't seem to, you would think that if there was particularly, maybe not in Michigan, but there are other places in the country and the world like Amsterdam and in Colorado, um, where there has been, uh, a much longer, um, time to see what recreational and medicinal, but mostly recreational marijuana, um, does to a society. And so far, it seems to be pretty good for tax coffers. And I haven't really bad much concern from law enforcement so far is obviously everything can get out of control.
Speaker 1:Well, very, very true, but it certainly seems as if the communities that are allowing this are taking steps to make sure that that is not the case. Um, as, as we mentioned, you know, obviously these stores are trying to be very good citizens at this point in time. Um, when you, when you take a look at this, I mean, do we have any indication as to whether or not these potential businesses and the people looking to get into the business are undergoing any additional scrutiny than they would be if they were trying to open say a liquor store?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I mean, I don't know what, whether there is a difference in the standards for how you get a license to sell alcohol versus how you'd get a license to sell marijuana. I know that it's very expensive to get these licenses for marijuana. And I think the, the screening and the, um, the licensure for the marijuana licenses might be more similar to getting a, uh, like a gambling license, uh, where there's, where there's, uh, there are special restrictions and such, but, but you also have to remember that there's also this effort to sort of provide reparations in a way to a lot of people who got caught up in the war, on drugs, people who got very severe sentences that damaged their ability to make a livelihood and obviously lost their fruit loss of freedom. There are a lot of folks who w particularly people of color and people in the cities who are treated very differently by the justice system for being caught with a joint or some marijuana, or trying to sell it, or any number of these infractions. Um, and so there is this effort afoot to try to allow them if that's their only failure, if that, you know, if they're, if they, if that's, if that's their only criminal history to, to let them in. And that wouldn't be the case say for like a gambling license. Sure. Yeah. Nobody knows nobody has a great deal of empathy for the, for the folks who might've gotten busted running a, um, uh, an illegal numbers running scam in, in, uh, in, in the casino business and say, Oh, well, you know, they need to be able to run a casino, but it is different.
Speaker 1:Well, well, Steve, one last question for you. Uh, and, and I mean, one of the problems, uh, I know that the industry is dealing with is the cashflow issue. This is pretty much a cash business, because a lot of banks are very, very reluctant, uh, to operate in a, in a spear that, that the federal government still considers to be illegal. Um, any indication that there is movement to, to ease that problem, because, I mean, they're, they're dealing with large amounts of cash, which is potentially dangerous in a number of ways. Um, and it seems to me that the state would probably want something that there was a little bit more transparent, uh, from, from a revenue and a, and a records perspective. Is there any sense that this is going to change anytime soon?
Speaker 3:I mean, I think it has, to some extent, I remember these folks do use banks and financial services that are wholly owned and con you know, contained by the state, uh, you know, banks that, that aren't doing multinational or, or publicly traded, um, work. Uh, you know, it is actually this, this particular element is very similar to the early era of the casino industry. And I spent most of my journalism career in Las Vegas, and the reason why the mafia ran and built Las Vegas was because there, they were willing to borrow from, uh, and they were able to provide the capital to build the casinos. Um, whereas the moral, legitimate casino industry couldn't get loans from, from banks because it was casinos and it was controversial or, or whatever. Um, so it is similar in a way if they don't, if they don't provide a legal, um, and accountable banking method, you will find a lot of questions surrounding where the financing for these businesses comes from. Um, and I, I, my impression is that there are some banks that, um, don't have to worry about the, say the sec or, or the federal government stepping in because they're, you know, they're operating in multiple States. Um, but th but you know, the other thing about that is this is also a problem for the simply the supply of the, of, of the product. Um, you, you can't grow it in another state and then transport it here to sell. Um, you can't grow it in another country and, and transport it into the, to sell. And in, in the U S has to be grown and sold in the same state. And that actually has, in fact, particularly in, in, in Michigan right now limited the supply dramatically. Um, and you don't, you know, that, and that's because it's still federally illegal. And so transporting this, this drug across state lines is, uh, is still potentially a very serious crime. And, uh, certainly he's transporting it in from another country is a very serious crime. So there's a lot of these nuts and bolts of how this operates that will continue to change. There was a, uh, um, a resolution, I believe in the house of representatives in the last few weeks to legalize marijuana, uh, nationally. But
Speaker 1:Yeah, Mitch McConnell basically put the kibosh on that right off the bat site won't even take it up. And I don't know if he's just trying to protect the tobacco industry in Kentucky or what he's trying to do there, but, um, something along those lines I have a feeling is what's going on, but, but real quick, Steve, uh, because we've been going for quite a while, and I do appreciate your time today, um, overall, uh, despite, uh, you know, some of the hurdles that still exist, uh, it seems that this industry is, is alive and growing.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's, it's weed and grow like a weed. I mean, you know, I mean, there is a lot of money to be had here, and that's why the fees and the, um, licensure expenses are so high and yet people are so willing to pay them because the payoff, the potential payoff is, is enormous. Um, and so, yeah, you know, that there are some areas of the state where it's okay and somewhere where it's not, and that kind of makes it interesting, you know, that there are certain cities, like I said, burned down, um, where you can go or Ann Arbor, where you can go and get all kinds of different things. And it's really easy. Um, and then other places where they, they are just not up for it. And that, I don't know that that's kind of a nice variety for our state. All right,
Speaker 1:Well, we'll have to wrap it up right there. I want to thank my guest, Steve freeze. Of course he is the, our Detroit news features editor. They've got a huge cover story this week, taking a look at the one-year anniversary or this month, I should say, looking at the one year anniversary of recreational marijuana being allowed here in the state of Michigan voters, of course did approve that. So, uh, it's here to stay and, uh, we'll be watching the industry as it does indeed grow like a weed. Steve, I appreciate that very much. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me again. We appreciate Steve frees for joining us on the program today, and we will be following up on this. There's a lot to look at in this industry and how it's going to sort of change the landscape here in the state of Michigan. What lessons can we learn from other States? What things will we do better, or perhaps worse than other States that are experimenting with this. Uh, and, and
Speaker 2:Seriously, there's going to be a number of other States coming on board, the federal, government's making some movement towards at least changing some of the status on this. We'll be following up on that as well. That's going to open up the flood Gates for a lot of different things and so fascinating stuff. And in a really, really good look at this in this month, our Detroit. So take a look at that. I always appreciate the work that they do over there. I also appreciate all of you for listening to the program today. A quick reminder, there is not going to be a week. That was this week, because of course this Friday is Christmas day. We're not going to be doing a show on Christmas day, but I am going to put a year in review show up there the year. That was sometime between Christmas and new year's. I haven't figured out which day we're going to record that yet, but we'll make it available to you obviously. Uh, and what we're doing now is accepting your nominations for the schmuck of the year. I've got a thread on Facebook right now. I'll put it back up there, I'll pin it to the top of my page. If I can figure out a way to do that and get your nominations for smoke of the year, we've got a ton of people coming in, and some people obviously have gotten multiple votes, and it's not a big shock as to who they are at this point in time. I'll let you think about that for a bed, but imagine who they might be. Anyway, thank you for checking out the show today. Send me an email. If you want to, if you want to send your suggestions anonymously, the Craig Follies show@gmail.com is a good way to reach me or send me a private message on Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn or something like that. And I'll get them in that way. If you don't want to make it public on my Facebook thread, I totally get that. I don't want to jeopardize anybody's livelihoods here. Anyway, enjoy your holiday. Have a wonderful, wonderful Christmas. And we will talk between Christmas and new years. Uh, there's going to be a lot going on and a lot to talk about. So I appreciate it. We'll talk soon looking for the latest news and information about our great city of Detroit, head to deadline, detroit.com, but one stop shopping for the most important stories of the day. Deadline. Detroit has some of the best journalists in town providing original reporting videos and podcasts that keep you in the know about everything happening in Detroit. Become a member today, and you'll automatically be entered into a drawing for prizes, including gift cards, to some Detroit's best restaurants, go to deadline, detroit.com/membership.