Kenneth Roman

This week’s dinner topic follows two Arizona escapees who leave a path of death and destruction in their wake. Our dinner companions will be in for a surprise as this story hits close to home.


Sources:

• Kenneth Roman 
• Az Inmates Sought After Agent is Shot, Washington Post; Charles Fishman
• For Us He’s One of 10000 Inmates, UPIFugitive Shot and Killed; FBI Agent Wounded, The Battalion (Newspaper)
• 2 Arizona Fugitives Sought; One May Be In the New York Area, New York Times

Instagram: 72_media

Email: 72HousePodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

0:00

All right, you fuckers, ready?

Yes.

All right, let's do this. 72 House, K Jack 7 Stabbing, 1000 E Mission Dr. 72 House K Jack 7.

0:25

All right, here we go.

We're here at 72 House.

I'm your host, Víctor García, with the other host, Crazy Rob Anders.

Yo-yo, yo-yo.

Yo fancy Lance Carlson?

Howdy, howdy yo.

Yo pull up a chair, grab a plate.

Come on, Chow's on.

Dinner at the Duke Chow chow chow.

0:41

Chow chow all.

Right.

So let me start this off by putting out a request.

So anyone that works in a field where you deal with emergency based services and see some of the craziness that comes out of that world, whether you're a nurse, doctor, firefighter, PD, you name it, send a OR.

1:04

Just a civilian that has a crazy story because my.

Oh, 100.

Percent.

A lot of people don't know this, but my my brother pulled someone out of a fire because it's just really, yeah, just walking past you just and you got burned.

No shit.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's a good point, Lance.

Civilians, anyone with a story that we could tell on this show and put it out there.

1:24

Put in the subject line.

How about cool story?

Just put cool sweet story dude.

Yeah, bro.

Please do if you got any of those stories, send them in to us.

Boom.

All right, I am unbelievably pumped about doing this episode.

It kind of came to ME/US by chance and I think you guys are really, really going to like it and I think the listeners will be blown away.

1:49

So let's start with that.

I I think this will end up being our best episode yet, but.

I'll be the judge of that.

You'll be the judge of that for.

Sure, they're all the best ones.

So this is about a prison escape in 1984, two inmates, Kenneth J Lundian and Robert V Latimer.

2:12

And we'll put some pictures up here in a minute so you guys can get a look at what those.

Where did they escape from?

What those guys look like, they escape from.

Shawshank.

Not Shawshank.

Are you sure?

It's I've seen that movie.

An Arizona State Penitentiary.

It's what's the main, the big one.

2:28

Florence.

Florence, Yeah.

Florence.

Yep.

So this is here in Arizona.

This is here in Arizona.

All local boys, I like it.

So January 23rd, 1984, two inmates, Kenneth J Lundian, Robert Vance Latimer of Arizona State Penitentiary in Florence escaped and believe me, they left a trail of disaster in their wake.

2:51

And this is the stuff that I think is going to really, really blow your minds.

So I put a picture up there.

You guys can kind of take a look at his word doing it.

Is he on America's Most Wanted?

Looks like Joe Doe.

That wasn't he was FBI.

He was FBI himself.

Wanted by the FBI.

But he himself was not FBI.

3:07

No, he was not.

No, he was when you said.

He was FBI.

It led me to believe.

He was.

A I'm doing some detective.

Work.

Oh, no kidding.

Is that what it says?

He's very good at it.

Look at it now, it says right there.

Look at.

He's a pile of shit.

No, you're right.

So let's get into this guy Kenny Kenneth J Lundian, born so I actually, I don't have his date of birth, which doesn't matter.

3:30

He was 27 years old at the time of the.

We can do the math, right?

OK, 27 I.

Don't know the math right now?

On October 23rd, 1974, three men wearing ski masks robbed the Buena Vista Theatre in Tucson, AZ at gunpoint.

So this is how London got into prison, to even be a be there to get an escape going.

3:50

So AG salt like yo AG robbery is this.

Armed robbery?

Is this his?

Armed robbery.

But is like did he have a record before this or is this his first?

This is his first one.

First recorded.

First recorded.

First time.

He got caught, yes, 'cause there's a difference.

4:06

So, so he and, and three, two other people, 3 total, robbed this theater at gunpoint.

And the people that they most impacted, per the report, were the person at the front box and the person at the candy counter.

4:22

So I it sounds like they went in.

Well, I understand assaulting the the front.

Box but the the candy.

Counter.

You see what I'm going?

There they just bring love.

All right, all right, I take it back.

Yeah, let's move on from that.

So all three suspects captured.

4:38

Lance has a poo poo face now.

No, I I said it bad.

That's why you have a poo poo face.

So.

That's just my face, pal.

All three suspects captured in face trial.

And like I said before, this guy, he's a career loser, career criminal, and just the overall sack of shit.

4:56

And a box assaulter.

Yes.

So this was on, like I said, October 23rd, right.

So three days.

Let's see if it was 3 days.

No, this was actually the day after that robbery.

5:13

OK at the theatre.

Theatre.

Yep, they robbed a Pizza Hut the very next day, right?

So you especially back.

Then it was like the fun Pizza Hut.

They burned that pepperoni.

Oh, they're cool red cups.

Yeah, yeah, old school salads bar was cool.

Yeah, nobody pizzas like the Hut.

5:30

Yeah.

Salad bar.

Is that a plug?

Are we going to get paid for that?

Probably.

OK.

We'll reach out when when they listen to it.

By the way, this guy's 54.

Do you know that?

5-6, I thought.

Well, it says 5 four to. 5-6 So one of the three that was involved in the.

5:46

If he's wearing heels, sorry.

We move on.

Sorry, go One of the three that that helped rob the Pizza Hut and the movie theater was a female who flipped on the other two people for a lesser sentence.

6:03

Oh, dude, if you need three people to rob a Pizza Hut, you're just doing it wrong.

Yeah, I agree.

You know what I mean?

You don't need to look out, dude.

You need to go in there and tell those high school kids it was.

Back in the yeah, it was. 80s dude, it wasn't like the 6 1/2.

It wasn't that.

6:18

It was just robbing.

Anybody.

Back just That should be an easy one.

That should be an easy one right there.

Hey, what do you got in the tiller?

They're not going to give up their life.

No, no, yeah, 3 is most certainly aggressive.

Right, because how much money do you think is in that till 200 bucks to split three ways?

6:33

Yeah, and you know, they probably only allowed to keep so much and they got to cash it in.

So yeah, 100% that's a one man job.

Amateurs.

So already I'm not liking the guy.

Yeah, right.

Clearly.

You were one pathetic loser.

So Kenneth J Lundy and sentenced to no less than five years and no more than 20 years in the Arizona State.

6:50

Penitentiary.

Is it because the gun?

Yes.

Armed robbery, yeah.

And so that's what gets him into the clink.

Now let's get into Robert Vance Latimer.

Yeah, I'm in the clink, See.

Yeah.

So this guy.

You got a file file my.

7:05

Way, sweetie, I need you to make me a cake.

So all these guys are pieces of shit, like I said, but this guy's a special kind of piece of shit.

He's 25 years old.

At the time of the escape, he was in prison similar to the other guy for kidnapping and armed robbery.

7:23

So I wasn't able to find any of the details of the original crime.

But what we do know and can surmise is that he is much the same as Kenneth Lundian.

He's just not a good guy.

So so let's get into the escape now.

7:41

Right.

We got a little back history on these two guys so.

This is all Charles Mansony looking.

They, you know, I feel like they all kind of were, especially when it's like black and white like that.

Yeah, It it.

Gives them a certain vibe.

This cat is is that, say 63?

7:57

He's hanging around.

He.

Must have looked like a giant next.

To the five four guy like Master Blaster from That's right.

You know what I mean.

Yeah, Two men enter, one man leave.

So the breakout.

What is that?

Come on.

Come on.

8:14

Tina Turner, bro.

Ike yeah, that was a good one.

But 180 lbs.

The old Thin Mint.

Medium build.

So so the break out of the prison.

Florence Penitentiary of note, July 30th, 1978 And this is kind of one of the things, Rob you and I talked about this briefly, but 1978, July 30th was another prison escape from the Florence Penitentiary.

8:39

I remember this one.

This one was a really.

Yeah.

World famous like they made movies about.

Father and sons, there's a couple of them, right?

I'll still someone around in a testicle nut sack.

It was two sons that broke out their father or three sons, I'm sorry, that broke out their father and they go on this like 6 day murder spree through.

9:01

Arizona up around in New Mexico, Yeah.

Everyone dies.

The very last person to die was the dad, who you know, got basically his ass blown up by PD in a shootout.

OK, so like throughout this whole deal, like his sons were getting picked off pretty much, and like they were still on the loose.

9:20

Yep, so.

He killed all of his sons.

Yep, they literally fought till the end which I think is why it's such a popular story.

Movies about it and.

All for unpaid parking tickets.

Exactly.

So, so this escape, that was in 78, right?

9:41

And now we're talking about 1984.

So not that long.

Six years passed and another two guys escaped from the prison, which you would think after the first one, that's World News.

They would get their shit together.

Yeah, why?

9:57

That's true, it's no fun.

Right.

How would you do that?

You never get to use your guns or.

Anything.

Yeah, let's.

Just your batons.

They they barely fixed the the fence that was cut.

Exactly.

So, so back to this prison.

Escape the the current one OK the first stop after their escape, at least that is documented with a crime was in Satokoi, California and this was two days after So we're now on January 25th 1984.

10:27

So I'll give you a little idea of the area Satokoi small town population 1000 just off the freeway near like the Ventura Camarillo area and super close to the beach not far out of Arizona.

So even still, if you, you know, do the simple math, two days you figured on foot to get from Arizona, Florence to California not happening.

10:51

On foot.

Well, that's what you would assume, right?

Because there's not.

There's nothing where they talk about them robbing anyone it to that point.

So my guess is they just hitchhiked is what I would assume.

Yeah, because there's not.

This is the.

Under the radar for the most part, I guess.

Yeah, for sure.

11:07

Which which is that's.

Been hitchhiking was cool.

Do you ever do that?

No.

Yeah, me.

Neither, right?

Yeah, that's dangerous.

Yeah.

Don't.

Let's not do that.

Oh.

For the love of God, yeah.

So.

Rascals never.

So the the first victim, which again is kind of crazy to me because these guys just got from Arizona to California and didn't kill anyone and that's what they needed a ride.

11:32

So the first victim is a 31 year old male from Canoga Park, CA.

The victim was driving home in his Jeep and he was pulled over at gunpoint and basically kidnapped vehicle taken.

The finer details of the assault aren't known.

11:51

They haven't talked about it in detail as far as the Internet and documentation that I can get.

But what we do know is this at some point he was shot in the head and dumped in a, in a like a Creek bed.

So, and, and what I read from another article is actually that he was shallowly buried.

12:12

So it, you know, at some point, like I say, they take his Jeep, they shoot him in the head, which I don't get why, you know, why couldn't they just take his vehicle like they did the people prior to that?

But I guess it's hard to get in the mind of a A.

Piece of.

12:27

Shit.

Yeah, a piece of shit.

That's a that comes with the territory.

You know you don't earn that title easily.

Very true.

Very true.

Yeah.

So the victim, the Canoga Park victim, was found about 5 months later by firefighters that were battling a brush fire.

12:46

So.

Boy by accident, huh?

Yep, sounds like they were mopping up and, you know, shoveling and they came across this body.

Dude, five months.

What does that look?

Like not good.

I wouldn't imagine like.

Outside.

Eating.

Well, nibbled on I.

13:02

Don't know the times.

That we go on people that have been down for weeks, right?

It's bad.

Well, for sure they're all bloated and you can't really tell like honestly, like what?

Even like their race.

They do you remember seeing the pictures of that dude behind station 1 is an old dude and he lived in an apartment there, but everything was like on auto pay and fire didn't even go, but PD went to do a check welfare and this guy had been dead like down to he was like skull and you can see his alma and radiant like everything dude like no skin or he's like literally skeleton.

13:31

How old?

Like, I don't know, died?

Of old age or.

Yeah, he's like just in his old dude in the house by himself.

Yeah, like One Eyed Willie just cruising in his house.

But he had all his bills and shit, were on auto pay.

So the air stayed on, light stayed on the whole thing, you know, 'cause his pension check or whatever was coming in.

So it's just a crazy thing.

But, you know, months and months and months.

13:47

That dude was in his apartment.

So I'm gonna take a picture of.

That yeah, how PD did back well, back then we it was training.

Just for documentation.

Yeah, exactly.

So along the call, the call path, what I can't say, I mean, obviously I've been on a lot of people that have been shot in the head and honestly most of them by themselves.

14:06

But a lot of that, I can't say that I've been on anyone, at least that I can recall that that was involved in something big like that.

What prison escape and murder.

And I I mean let.

14:22

Me think.

Maybe we're just not there long enough to find that out, but have, I mean, have you guys?

There's been some high speed chases at Station 2.

They had to get the televised thing there.

The guys were running ATF was catching them and they caught them over there by the the point right there at the enchiladas that little off at baseline.

14:42

They all kind of surrounded the car and then a gun came out and then bom bom bom bom bom bom bom they shot all that, but then the guys at station two were watching it live.

Then the lights went on.

They went to a gunshot wounds.

No kidding.

No one for pretty watching it on TV to Yeah getting dispatched to it so mine.

Mine was just something not as like extravagant as that but some some dude had an argument with his sister-in-law and shot her up with AI.

15:06

Think a 22 caliber 25 caliber or something like that shot her in the vagina.

Oh.

Sounds like our.

One and do you remember that?

He's not here, No.

Yeah.

Do you remember?

I do remember.

No, but she was alive and PD had like brought her, you know, kind of to us and we treated her, send her in and needled her and all that stuff.

15:28

But dude, like could you imagine that just having a disagreement with your family member and they just pull out a gun and shoot you?

In the genitals.

And the well, I, I think, I'm sure she was sitting.

I don't, I don't think he was aiming for that thing, even though it was.

15:44

That's the crimes of passion and stuff like that we had and I don't want to get off on attention with this, but this is interesting.

And I don't remember who was there.

You might have been Lance because we all went.

So this dude was married, he got divorced, lost his mind.

His ex-wife was dating this other dude.

And one morning it was the Sprouts off of southern and rural.

16:03

I think that Sprouts there's an apartment complex right across that to the South and this dude shows up at his ex wife's house with her boyfriend there at like 5:30 in the morning completely naked.

He had a sharpie and wrote all over himself, like had notes and Bible verses and like he wanted to donate his organs all that and he was completely nude to cover in that.

16:25

So he knocks on the door, kind of hides, she opens the door, kaboom right to the head.

He he goes with her, the other boyfriend runs out, he comes out and goes kaboom to him and then puts a gun on himself and kaboom.

Dude just dropped him off.

It was fucking when was this?

It.

Was years ago dude.

16:41

I've been.

Was that basalt area?

Yeah, that sounds, that sounds weird.

I know you.

It was our shift, 'cause it's when we're all on sea shift together.

So 'cause you know, I was with Dano, I was driving Dano, but it was just pretty fucking intense.

Just three gunshot victims.

But just the, the weirdness with the, the whole like passion, you know, crimes of passion and everything, just like people fucking.

17:00

When their minds snap.

Boom, man.

Scary.

Yeah, it's 'cause they're not going to stop.

No, there's no logic or reason to any of.

It it's like just fucking autopilot.

Man, geez.

Weird, that is.

Nuts.

So not to get off on attention, but it was no.

Interesting.

So, so the Canoga Park victim, we're going to talk more about him and in a little bit, but let's move on to the next piece of the escape.

17:21

So the next stop of note was Springfield, VA London and Latimer find themselves in a shootout now with the FBI.

Jesus.

So this is in Springfield, VA, and the FBI had tracked these two clowns to a shopping mall in Springfield.

17:40

A shootout occurs, resulting in one FBI agent, Carl Swanson, being shot in the leg and Kenneth Lundian being shot in the chest.

Non life threatening.

He made it to his next destination.

But I mean, a legitimate gunshot.

17:55

Yeah.

Running.

Yeah.

And a legitimate running gun battle.

I don't see how that's.

Well, I see him through and through, right?

Otherwise, like you're like, you're searching hospitals at that point, right?

If you're the FBI, who?

Gets shot in the fucking chest and keep rolling and keep going.

That's not like Ricky Pearsall.

18:11

Well, no, I mean, I'm saying like, hey, you could obviously like the deter the FBI, make your escape, but eventually you got to make your way to the hospital, I assume, right?

And don't hospitals.

You would assume.

Don't hospitals report that stuff?

Correct.

Yeah, Yeah, you have to by law.

I mean, I'm.

No, Yeah.

And this isn't that long ago, no.

18:27

Investigator.

Yeah, but I've seen a movie.

So the future, yeah.

So these two guys, right, they get in the shootout, people are hurt, they basically commandeer a taxi.

They pull over a taxi driver at gunpoint.

And these guys both is?

That what it's called in the legal terms commandeer.

18:45

I think so, yeah.

It's I think it's Grand Theft Auto, which.

So one way or the other, they take it right and they keep the taxi driver with them, which again is crazy to me because they don't end up killing this taxi driver and they're with him for a long time.

19:02

So the the other thing I, I getting back to the Canoga Park is my guess is because these other people weren't killed.

He probably they probably tried to take his Jeep and Price said fuck you, you're not getting my Jeep and probably tried to right.

19:19

That's my guess.

That would be my guess because they didn't kill these other people that they.

Were they complied?

Right, Right.

Right, so they get this and this is back to what I was telling you, Rob.

So they they get the taxi with the driver and they have him drive them eastward.

19:37

They drop Latimer off at in in Tennessee somewhere, OK, and then they keep heading east and they get all the way to New York.

How they paying this dude?

I don't think they're paying him how?

They paying this cab fare is what I want.

To know, yeah, yeah, these are just out of prison.

19:53

They could not have a job.

No, no.

What's and what's the fucking cab?

You, you know what it's like.

As soon as I cross two state lines, I'm going.

I need a little bit of money.

I need to eat.

Well, that's something.

Yeah.

Hey, genius, that's why you're not.

That's why you're a terrible criminal.

That's why they stole the cab, OK?

20:09

They started picking people up and charging them.

You big dummy.

That's how they're making money.

Mastermind.

Yeah.

Thank you.

These guys are good.

Remember I just said keep math away from anything from Lance.

That's not true.

I'm a businessman, total businessman.

You want to know about.

20:24

Business I do business you.

Steal a cab and you start charging people.

I'm a Fire Chief.

I do Fire Chief stuff.

That's right, that's right.

So, so they head get to New York, right?

At least Lundian does.

And the taxi driver, he lets the taxi driver go in New York.

20:40

So here's The funny thing of it all, Lundian gets caught in New York.

He gets caught because he's trying to get on the subway and doesn't have the $0.90 to buy a ticket.

So the subway.

Had to pay the cabbie.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, he's broke down the.

20:55

Cab right he.

Looked.

They went across two states.

To fuck 90.

Cents, huh?

That's. 90 cent ticket and the subway police apprehend this guy.

And this is where he wants to get all holy.

Like he doesn't want to just hop over that little bar.

No, Nope.

And they find a so this is actually good.

21:12

They find the gun on him unregistered, and that's.

So with that charge, they take him to Rikers.

OK.

So.

But here's the.

Sounds like not a good place.

No, that sounds like a movie.

Yeah, that's where the rock was exactly.

Is that right?

That's where.

21:28

What?

What is it V?

What's their?

Yeah, VXVX gas.

Yeah.

That was actually Alcatraz deadly, which is not Rikers.

So not even close.

It's close enough, man.

Yeah, that's true.

It's just around the.

Corner.

It's on the earth around the corner.

So.

So they him this guy up in Rikers and they have no idea.

21:49

They don't know.

You know what?

That'd be a cool baby name, too.

I like that.

Riker.

Yeah, sorry, sign out.

But.

So.

So they don't know who they have, they just know they got a guy with an unregistered weapon about.

This is this before they started like talking like like.

Oh yeah, this is 84.

22:05

I mean, they don't got cell phones, they don't got nothing.

Yeah.

So you can still, like, do whatever you got to do in Arizona cross straight, straight.

And it's like starting all over again.

Absolutely.

You're a new man.

All right.

Born again.

And if you're a piece of shit, you know that like that comes with the education of being.

22:21

A piece of shit, Absolutely.

You just smear yourself.

Without a doubt.

So two days later they figured out, oh shit, we've got a a wanted criminal with, you know, that shot an FBI agent.

They escaped prison so so they send him back his initial charges that he has to face are believe it or not, not for the murder there for the shooting the FBI agent.

22:49

And the reason is they happened in two different locations.

So the FBI agent was in Virginia.

So Virginia said, hey, we want to prosecute him now for this crime.

And then when that's done, then you can prosecute him.

We'll extradite him to California and you guys can prosecute him there in California.

23:08

So that's what they do.

And he's sentenced to 10 years for the shooting of the FBI agent and.

Seems light.

You would think.

Right, we didn't kill him.

Well, no, but I mean that that's like a no.

Person maimed him.

But you, you, you shoot a an official, right?

23:26

Isn't that like?

Isn't that?

Worse.

I would, I would think so you would think 10 years is pretty light.

So he gets 20 years for the murder of the 30 of the Canoga Park.

Yeah.

So we're at 30.

So let's get now to Robert Latimer because like I told you guys, he got dropped off in Tennessee.

23:44

So this is another crazy part and and we'll all know why here in a second.

But Latimer was listed by police.

So the message that got sent out to the public is extremely dangerous.

An expert marksman, an explosives expert and a black belt in karate.

24:02

This is what they told the public.

OK, you.

You had me up until karate, now I think he's a pussy.

Karate.

Yeah, yeah.

Karate in the 80s too, that was.

What was that?

Ohh Jean Claude band down dude.

There are all those guys that was like.

That's all that existed.

OG MMA wasn't a thing but.

24:18

No, no, no.

That was before they realized that karate was a false offense.

Yeah.

It was more of a dance move.

Yeah, yeah.

Is that the name Gracie or?

Yeah, something similar?

Yeah, Gracie, that's the yeah, yeah, that's.

That's jiu jitsu.

Yeah, well, it's all kind of.

24:34

This it is not.

That's the karate is.

Not the same you guys just swinging things around.

So question for you guys.

Don't act like you're not impressed.

Expert marksman, Expert explosives person, black belt in karate.

My assumption is this guy's military.

Where the hell are she going to get all these certifications, movies and stuff?

24:53

Yeah, or maybe he's a liar.

I'm certified in all that shit right now.

You want to see?

That's true.

I'll.

Show you some karate.

So.

So Latimer, he's in Tennessee, he gets tracked by the FBI to a shopping mall in Goodlettsville, TN, which is 10 miles north of Nashville.

25:13

So it's a small little town.

And a same thing happens as Virginia running gun battle with the FBI.

In the aftermath, another FBI agent was shot in the ass.

Funny thing.

Yeah, because he's run away.

25:28

Because he must have been.

I don't know how he should get.

Shot in the ass, he's got to be some.

Actually, let me take that back.

I do know how he got shot.

We'll get to that in just a second.

He shot himself in the his own ass.

No. close, but no.

A lady was also shot in the leg and Latimer was shot dead.

25:46

Oh, they got his ass.

Yep, they got his ass.

And he's the one that they believe killed the Canoga Park victim is Latimer.

Well, yeah, that's what police say.

And so as it turns out, this shoot out was a big deal because in.

26:05

In other terms than just a prison escape.

So during the shootout a off duty police officer or sheriff sees this gun battle going on and so he whips out his gun and jumps into the.

Battle just fucking start popping around.

26:21

So then I start.

I mean what about friends man, we all look the same.

So this guy shoots the FBI.

He's the one that shot that friendly fire.

Friendly fire.

No kidding.

Yeah, Yeah, that's right.

Ain't that a bitch?

Game over, remember?

When I shot you in the ass, wasn't that hilarious?

26:37

Remember when I killed?

I killed you, so on a good note, do.

You remember that?

Do you remember?

You remember.

On on a good note, Latimer done.

We got one more, one less sack of shit, Roman.

Got it.

They got him, got their man.

26:53

So I had told you guys at the beginning of this thing that I'm super excited and that this one will be a little bit different for us.

So, and I also told you, hey, we're going to come back to the Canoga Park, CA victim.

A lot of it not a lot of the times.

27:08

Every time we do these and all of the other true crime podcasts that we listen to, you know, we put the focus on the murderer a lot of times and or just the crime itself.

27:24

And I think we miss and and not I wouldn't say miss.

You just only have so much time to talk about these things.

But we do miss the human side of these things, which is every one of these deaths is a ripple effect into an ocean of family and loved ones and people that are impacted and their lives changed in one way or the other because of that death.

27:49

Am I at a therapy session?

Is that?

What's going on now?

No, you're.

Going to make me feel things.

See this?

Hey, remember what I told you for he's deflecting again.

Oh yeah, yeah, that's right.

Remember.

When I said it's not you, it's me.

That's right, I need to.

That's what I miss.

Yeah, you almost got me with the deflection there.

Yeah, yeah, all.

28:05

Right, so.

I got your number lol.

So, so we'll, we'll move on from the, the therapy session here.

So the Canoga Park victim, his name was Kenneth L Roman.

And obviously that is a name we all know Kenny because we work with his son, Kenneth Roman Junior.

28:29

This is Kenny's dad who was murdered by that dirtbag.

So I I had this vaguely.

Wait, I was on the job in Tempe for 24 years.

I've been retired for four near 30 fucking years that I've never heard this story, which respectfully, it's probably not something to talk about, but I'm just surprised.

28:46

Yeah, how close we.

Are heard this and that's because he's on my truck.

So same here.

I heard about it too, but we were on the same apparatus together too and and we didn't talk much about it, to be honest with you.

Yeah.

Well, and also like, how do you bring that shit up?

Hey, nice to meet you.

I'm Kenny.

My dad died.

29:03

They killed Kenny.

They.

Killed Kenny, you bastard.

So we have Ken Kenneth Roman here.

Yes, we do.

For the listeners to talk to get get questions answered about this case.

And really, to be honest, I think give us a look into these crimes that we just don't get the the backside of these things and all the damage that's done on the bat on the tail end of these crimes.

29:24

And so just let me introduce Kenny real quick.

He's a firefighter, paramedic.

We all worked together with Kenny.

Robb worked with him currently.

On the job.

Kenny, you can come in on the conversation.

I have just pitches.

I believe Mike is on test, test, test.

29:40

Yes, hit it on channels on channels on, throwing it out, throwing it out.

So how many years, Kenny?

17 as a firefighter, 25 with the city.

It's all right.

Obviously our podcast, 72 House Dinner at the Deuce.

Kenny's A Life Lifetime 72 Houser.

29:57

Oh yeah, I'm probably the longest member there actually, if you think about it, like from 99 to now, I'm still at 2:00.

So I think I, I beat Glade out of Station 3, so G matter of fact.

So station 2 is about to get rebuilt and I'm in my room and I've been in that room literally for 17 years.

30:17

And as close, as soon as I got probation, I got on to engine 7 'cause it was out of the same station.

Hold on.

And then now.

You remember old School station?

Too.

Oh, yeah, any of the.

I remember, I remember.

I remember the trailers in the back where they didn't do the that was.

Good time.

The the, the shitters, right?

30:33

Remember how?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's one.

Of the all the there's so many stories.

Oh dude, way way too many stories.

Like throwing the recline on the roof and setting that on a fire that didn't happen.

That didn't.

Happen.

That was after that was when I got on.

It was like maybe a year after I got on, but dude, I'll, I'll tell you this, they were.

30:53

They were.

Coming it was like me, Fonseca, Hernandez and.

Commence.

With the fucking.

So just my first memory of walking in the station too.

Just kind of give you guys a little picture.

I remember you got mesothelioma.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

I got kids now.

31:10

No, was I was sort of saying walking over next door and Chuck Herman was a firefighter paramedic and he's in a towel and he drops his towel and he's backing up the engine naked like and he's doing this like naked.

31:29

And I remember thinking, so this is where I belong.

This is fucking So.

This is.

Home, yeah.

Yeah.

And Kenny had an erection the entire time.

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure not.

He had a nice.

Ass, of course, but yeah.

But Long story short though, from October 25th, 99 is when I got hired, I'm going to say 6-7 years later, I was able to obtain a job as a firefighter.

31:55

You bribed your way in I.

Built, dude, You know, I was on probation for seven years.

You gotta do what it takes, but yeah to.

Be honest with you.

I think the way I got into fire it was actually Chief Jones.

So being a service aid you go to admin a lot you to talk to people, picked up mail, delivered checks, backboards, medical supplies, but I was what Pop is hey chief, how you doing?

32:13

Just being friendly and I think me just doing that over the years, over the seven years he disliked me.

You know, I'm saying like he dislike he.

Should he should literally write that in a as a like a the book?

I told him that people that you know like so well.

Funny thing.

32:28

Did you know your name by heart without looking at?

Your dude, he knew my name without my shirt.

No kidding.

That's good.

For whatever reason, like I think just I was always like, hey, how's it going?

Yeah, it's funny.

Then it says he knew my name too.

Did he really?

Well, not for the same reasons though.

But, you know, I end up actually leaving to go to Europe to go.

32:47

Oh, you did?

Yeah.

You get married.

I proposed to my wife.

Yeah, yeah.

OK, and remember that during my time there, he emailed me.

Hey Ken, if you're ever back in Tempe and you want your old job back, come talk to me.

Now mind you, when I went to Europe, I went there with the full intention to I'm going to this girl chasing around the world.

33:09

I'm going to marry this girl.

Now I have no job, no nothing.

You know, like I'm just a service aid part time.

Yeah, like a total bachelor.

Yeah, karate.

Just put yourself out there.

Hey, I have nothing to offer you, but will you marry me?

Oh.

Dude, that's yeah, yeah, it's crazy.

It always works.

33:24

Yeah, I guess so.

Now mind you, my part time job, I had other jobs too.

And the year before she went to that job, I knew that.

So I saved up like 15 grand.

Like I worked that job, I taught karate, I waited tables, I was a security guard.

33:40

I mean, I had multiple jobs during this year, like a whole year.

I did not take a day off.

I didn't save my money and, and I told Jones that I was like, hey, I'm going after this girl.

And he goes, all right, well, good luck with that.

There was a part of me too, because at that time I was probably six years into testing and you know, I, I was literally leaving the fire service behind that foothold in that I could get hired on to where I was like, I'm going to go after her.

34:07

I feel like I'm listening to Like the Notebook.

Fire.

I know, I know, I know.

I know.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

You know what I mean?

Like, are you gonna make a movie about this?

My heart is just warming up towards.

Yeah, I'm crying.

It happens.

Married to her to this day, 17 years and three months later, I took the test and I became a firefighter.

34:25

OK, now back to your dad being murdered, Yeah?

Thanks a lot.

Thanks a lot.

We've traveled just a little bit off.

My dad was Chief Jones.

I'm just kidding.

Twist to the store and twist.

Yeah, Papa.

Is that you?

So honestly, Kenny, I I did there there just a couple questions that I wrote and then I figured the conversation would take us where it took us.

34:44

But your father, how do you think that death impacted you?

What?

What do you think it?

Changed how old?

Were you?

Yeah.

How?

How old were you?

I want to say 1984 I was fuck yeah.

I'm not good with math so.

35:00

Have.

Have Lance have.

Lance Yeah.

Well, you're, you're I was eight.

I remember I was in Utah, Orem.

And my mom sat me down and she said your father has passed on.

You remember that?

Like I, I, I do.

I do and I.

And I remember I cried.

Do you remember him?

35:16

I do.

Well, it's funny you say that.

I have 3 or 4 memories.

First memory is me sitting in the back of a vehicle and we're picking up my mom from work.

She, I don't know if she later or whatever, but I just remember seeing his flop of hair in front of his Afro.

35:32

And I'm just kind of sitting in the car seat just like kind of like a little kid like, you know, And then another memory I have of my father was I got a Tonka truck.

But it was remember when the phone company was the phone?

It was Belle Mountain Belle and all that.

35:47

But it was before, but but it was before they split, right?

So it was Belle and it had a like a little GI Joe guy.

And I remember thinking, oh, man, this is so cool.

You know, like, thanks, Dad.

I do remember that.

And then I remember one time that my grandma left our apartment and I don't know what I did, but I got my ass whooped, you know, I remember like crying and trying to get to the door asking for grandmother.

36:16

Now granted I was probably, I was a little kid.

I did something like I remember him spanking me.

Like 80s too.

Oh yeah, 70s.

Early 80s.

Yeah, that's when you can get away with it.

The good old days.

My mom if I was.

In discipline, yeah.

If I was acting up in the store or whatever, she grabbed me by the arm really tight and she would say there's no witnesses in the car and I would.

36:37

Straighten.

Up.

Yeah, that works, dude.

Yeah.

Oh dude.

Words of affirmation.

So those are the memories I have of my father.

With that being being said, I have a lot of funny stories about my father growing up being a little little background.

36:53

So I'm Puerto Rican on my father's side and my mother's side is Irish.

God damn, thanks for that.

Thanks for.

Clearing that up, we were all wondering like.

Yeah, like literally, I was leaning really hard towards like Italian, Greek.

When I was in the Italy in Europe, they actually, I look Italian, you know, growing up.

37:10

So when my father died or when he well, first of all, my mom had my my sister at 15 with my father, my sister and older brother are three months apart.

So do that.

That's not math thing.

Oh, that's just a player in which I take a lot of crap I get that's not my dad, sister.

37:27

Ivers twins, right?

Isn't that how that works?

No, no, because that's the same mom.

This is two different moms.

So somewhere along the lines, my dad came back in the picture and, you know, had me five years later.

I, I, I say that because growing up in an all white family that's Irish, and then me being a Puerto Rican, I had a lot of questions, a lot of questions.

37:51

We'd love to get that last part, but we ran out of memory and we had two terabytes of recording, so yeah.

So But anyways, we'll get into that later, but like.

So Kenny, what stories have your your family told you about your dad in conjunction with the murder?

38:11

OK, so the story that I was told at probably 11 or 12 was that two people escaped from the Arizona penitentiary and they made their way to California.

38:27

Now, I don't, I don't know if you found this one, but my brother, I talked to my brother before I did this podcast and he talked about how it was actually a murder spree and one of the murders was that they captured a guy and took his vehicle and hung him on a cactus.

38:44

I don't know if you ever found any articles about that or anything like that, but that was.

That sounds like I did not.

No, that's.

Crazy Charles Manson type stuff.

Right there, you know.

What I mean like satanic?

Yeah, yeah.

So.

And then my father, as I knew it, was a bartender.

39:01

Wrong place, wrong time, came out, they jumped him, took his vehicle.

He had a Jeep.

I remember, I actually, I do remember the Jeep he had.

It was a brown Jeep with like eagles on it.

Like kind of like a fog eyeball.

CJ5 looking kind of.

39:16

Dude, that is, isn't that so 80s right there, dude, do you know what I mean?

Brown, like the brown, yellow and orange.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, right on, man.

Bad.

Eagle Challenge on there, Yeah, but.

I remember it was Brown had the Eagles on it, but and then he was shot in the head and left in the California foothills and then six months later was found by firefighters.

39:44

So what we had talked before Kenny and you had talked about during that six month period, you guys didn't know what happened.

You have you have any memory of that feeling?

Well.

Well, so OK.

So like, where's my dad?

Well, no, it's so when my mom told me he died, I cried and that, and that's all I remember.

40:04

That but.

Did she tell you for six months?

Yes, I I want to know like, no, no, no, as far as you knew, was he was he absent for six months?

Oh, yeah, dude.

Like, So what was the speculation there?

Like he just ran away.

Like he just.

He's 8 years old, so yeah.

So, well, I don't know, I mean stories.

From SO my dad was a player and he ended up cheating on my mom now my mom was a telephone operator for the phone company and she would got a call.

40:31

This is the once again this is the story I heard was that she got a call and she recognized the address and it was our next door neighbor.

Oh, boy.

And he's he's like, man, I don't know why my Bill's so big, like a long distance charges.

This is this is bullshit.

40:47

And she she recognized the name.

She recognized the address.

And she goes, well, do you have a neighbor named Kenny?

And he goes, yes, I do, actually.

And she goes, do you do you let him use your phone?

And he goes, yeah, I do.

41:02

But he says he's talking to his girlfriend at work.

And she goes, no, he's talking to his girlfriend in Washington.

Oh.

Man and so now mind you I don't remember any of this but my sister does and they had a big argument that night and my mom slapped him and then she took us to my grandparents house.

41:24

As the story goes, when my mom went to go back to get stuff for us, he moved out.

There's nothing there took everything.

With that being said, my father was never really in my life.

That's why I only have certain memories of it.

OK, you know what I'm saying?

41:40

So and then in the meantime, my mom had gotten remarried, you know, to another guy.

So.

She wasn't he, he wasn't like on the forefront of her mind like at the time of his murder.

So like, she wasn't really.

Like, so I'll say this is that my mom did tell me years later, I'm talking in my 20s, where she told me that my dad was contacting her before he died and what he wanted because he's a father of not only me but of my sister and then my older brother.

42:15

And he was trying to be more.

Present.

Present.

Yeah, but you know, I mean, think about it.

My mom was cheated on this guy.

Fuck you.

I'm not going to fucking have you my kids around you, you know, you're a piece of shit.

But then my dad, as smooth as he was, you know, she was actually considering it.

42:33

And she goes, you know what?

I was actually going to send you off to your dad's, you know, or whatever, because I felt that was something you needed.

But unfortunately, you know, he was in the wrong place, wrong time.

So I never got that.

Well, people can change.

So what did they tell you?

42:51

I know that we had talked and you told me that there were your your family speculated as to what happened to him during that six months.

OK.

And asking my aunts, my grandfather, they always had nothing but nice things to say about them.

43:09

They never talked I'll about them.

And now, you know, maybe it might be because you don't want to say ill of the dead, but that's not the only place I got information from too.

You know, even his family always talked about how Chrismatic he was, how fun he was, outgoing guy.

43:27

And my dad, like I said, he was a partier.

And as the story goes, he went out and he was with these guys, a lot of drugs, coke, whatever.

And he partied these guys and he waited for all of them to kind of pass out or whatever.

43:47

And he took their money, took their drugs, took their keys, threw their key, parked their cars in a circle, threw the keys in the woods, and then went to Vegas.

Now these guys are looking for him.

These guys, these guys are serious guys.

44:03

These guys are like, hey, man, they're going to his cousin who's his best friend, Robbie.

And like I said, I found this out years later.

And his other cousin, I can't think of his name, but anyways, his other cousin.

And they're like, hey, man, where's Kenny, dude?

44:19

Where's Kenny?

In there?

Yeah, we don't.

We haven't seen him.

We don't know the fuck where he's at.

And he shows up at my cousin Robbie's, his cousin Robbie's house, and Robbie proceeds to beat the shit out of him because what the fuck are you doing, dude?

I can't believe you fucking do this.

44:35

And the whole time he's beating him up, he goes, You haven't let me tell you about the hookers yet, you know, because he went on a fucking bench, you know, like he fucking had a great time and he want, you know, But when he was telling me the story, you know, you know, he's like, I'm so mad at him.

44:51

You know, these guys are looking for him.

He you know, he's, you know, these are serious guys.

So when when he was missing for six months.

Basically you guys thought those drug dealers he robbed may have killed him.

Yes, and even though he might have been involved in negative things or whatever, his life was, his family and even my mother's family like them.

45:19

But I mean, they grew up in the state, they grew up in Simi Valley and they all knew each other.

And it's it's kind of this interesting, interesting dynamic when you hear it and to where it's like he sounds like he was might have been a cool guy.

45:34

Yeah, so Fast forward me to what you remember about your mom sitting you down like day night.

Like had she known for a while and took her time to tell you?

Or there was.

The same day, I, I, I, I, I don't know.

What I do know is that I think that my mom felt bad about, like, keeping us from him because now he's no longer there.

45:59

You know, like the idea of keeping your child from somebody and then he's trying to make his way in, and then now he's gone.

Yeah.

It's.

Going to come.

That's linger.

Yeah, so I think that I think my mom, because you remember she was remarried at the time.

46:17

So it was one of those moments probably in your life is like, I should have done this, but it didn't happen.

Now after he passed away, you know, I remember my grandmother and my grandfather coming down to Christmas, hanging out.

I I remember going up to Washington, spending the summers with them, speaking Spanish to me.

46:39

And I didn't know any Spanish.

I still know any Spanish but they would always speak.

Spanish.

You spoke Irish.

I did.

When you're drunk, you speak some kind of gibberish.

Tasmanian, yes, completely.

But you cannot comprehend a novel.

Yeah, but growing up, though, once again, trying to find out who you are, right?

47:02

It sounds silly to say this, but I'm a brown guy in a white family, you know, and, you know, asking questions.

You feel like one of the misfit toys.

All the time, dude.

All the time.

And not just not just because of that though too, you know.

47:18

So probably finding your brother was a big deal.

You said you didn't know your brother until you were 13.

Yeah, so crazy.

And your brother looks like you.

Very, very.

Yeah.

Like, and you've met him.

We're like nature versus nurture, right?

So, you know, it's kind of funny.

47:33

You guys talked on a podcast about a girl with Al Pizza or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

And I remember hearing that and you guys kind of went into a thing about, you know, the proctitive environment or, you know, this or that.

47:49

And I truly believe in nature versus nurture because my brother is a spitting image of me and we act the same we had.

I think I've met your brother.

You probably have, yeah.

He's come by the station.

Yes, yeah, yeah.

48:04

And trying to find out everything I could about my family.

You know, my mom goes, well, you have an older brother.

I'm like, what?

Are you kidding me?

Well, what's his name?

Where do I go?

You know, and through my grandmother and through, you know, through family.

48:21

I got his number.

And I said, hey man, I'm.

I'm Roman, I'm your fucking brother.

I'm your brother.

He's like, I'm Kenny, but I go by Roman.

Well, his name's Tyrone.

Tyrone.

Tyrone, Yeah.

Tyroman.

Yeah, Tyrone.

Tyrone.

Yeah, Tyroman noodles.

Yeah.

Call him the typhoon, but typhoon.

48:37

But anyways, so I call him up.

I'm like, hey man, I'm your brother.

I want, I want to see you.

And he knew.

Brothers don't shake hands.

They hug.

Brother's got a hug.

But he goes, he goes.

Yeah, I I want to meet you too.

And his mother think about this though, his his mom has to talk to my mom because I'm 13 at the time so.

48:59

He's your half.

Brother, yes, yeah.

Oh, but.

I thought it was the.

Same long man, Dad.

Yeah, no, OK.

But still related enough to do karate in the basement, yeah.

That's true.

But that's a ridiculous question.

No, I know, I know, silly.

But it's true, you know, if you think about like, his mother's name's Nancy.

49:16

She's a beautiful woman.

She has a lot of funny stories about my dad, too.

But, you know, if you think about it like, he knocked up her and then had and then knocked up my mom.

And so now you have these two opposing forces to where she's like, she's like, yeah, I I want to see.

49:37

I want to see, you know, Roman, you know, And so I go out there in California and I meet him, you know, he's a.

Stress size each other up.

No, no, actually it was kind of funny.

A.

Goddamn fucking movie, Yeah.

49:53

But you know, I see.

A four hour movie.

Alright, I'm sorry, I.

Take fucking goddamn series on Netflix.

I, I meet him and, you know, I spend a week with him and I, I'm just flabbergasted.

50:09

He's a fire cadet.

So when I meet him, I'm like, Oh my God, this is I want to be just like him.

Right.

So I don't back in the day.

Now, so I don't, so I don't, so I don't have.

A father.

I'm caught up.

I don't have a father and I meet a guy who looks very like me.

And you're looking up to this dude.

50:25

Oh yeah, dude.

OK, now this guy, free spirited, ends up traveling around the world OK when I'm in high school.

Nice.

You know?

Yeah, and you're missing him.

I well, I mean, I'm just doing my high school things, but like, I would get a postcard from everyone.

50:41

Actually, I still have those postcards.

He's in Amazon or he's in fucking.

Crazy fucking dude.

But he always met, he always wrote me a postcard somewhere.

We kind of don't lose touch.

But yeah, you know, he's traveling, so I don't know where he's at.

I find his number.

50:56

I get his number through my grandmother.

And I'm like, hey, where's Ty at?

He's going to La Jolla Law School.

I'm like, OK, so I get his number.

I call him up.

I met him at 13, and now I call him up at 21 and I'm like, hey, man, this is Roman, dude, what are you doing?

He goes, dude, I'm going to tell you to be a lawyer.

51:13

And he goes, well, how old are you?

I was like, I'm 21, he's old.

Get your fucking ass out to LA.

And I go out to LA and it's once again, it's like looking at a mirror.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

That's what I remember when I met him.

That's what I didn't.

And I can't tell you when or how long ago it was, but I remember meeting him once going this is your fucking twins.

51:32

Yeah.

Dude, and it's so crazy too, because our mannerisms are same, our laughs the same, like he had his girlfriend and she's Oh my God, you guys, you guys are like like so the same and but we never grew up together.

You know what I'm saying?

51:47

But but you talk to him.

Very similar background.

So I guess to, to sum this up, I'm, I am super glad that you were OK coming and talking to us about this.

And you know how we are as firefighters, we bust each other's balls and so or ball sacks and we, I didn't want to be disrespectful.

52:12

So I, I hope we're good with that end of things.

And then the last piece is I think just being able to tell stories and talk about how these shitheads that run around the earth and take from other people, you know, the impact it has on people and their lives and everything that will happen to them from that point in their life forward.

52:34

So I am super glad that you came on and shared it with us because the people that listen, for sure, I guarantee it will resonate with people.

Well, I know for a fact Rob and I usually have a, an agreeance or a disagreeance on the people's upbringing.

52:52

Rob's usually very interested in how they were brought up.

And you know, and I'm more of a, you know, are you a shit head or not?

And, you know, Kenny could have certainly taken a different path for sure, you know, after his dad.

What do you say that though, right?

Like, so I had all the heart because once again, that one power cast I listened to, listened to and you guys kind of talked about like, how does somebody end up like this?

53:18

And you were like a product of their environment, Rob, you know?

Yeah, it's a product of your environment.

And then you talked about that's the way you're raised or whatever not, but that's who you are, right.

And just inherent.

Yeah.

And I can tell you through my experience and I'll, I'll just say it right now, like dads murdered, learning disability, dyslexic, doesn't know how to read.

53:44

Pick it.

I had all the fucking harm marks of being that shithead, you know, being that victim, right?

And I can tell you, like, there was a brief period in my life where I started going down a dark path and being different, you know, in high school, seeing people who are the same like that look the same as me doing, you know, acting like a botto, you know, And, you know, thank God my mom was a crazy kid because she saw that right away.

54:16

And she sat me down and remember, like it was yet like yesterday, it was like my mom and my grandmother and they sat me down and they say, what can we do to get you off this path?

And I said, put me in karate.

54:34

And they go, OK, they put me in the karate we are living on in Glendale, 51st and Olive and I went to Landmark Junior High at the time.

And so when when when I made that commitment to them, I stopped going on the bus.

I actually stopped hanging out with those kids.

54:51

And I spent all my time at the Dojo.

You.

Were waxing on.

Wax, wax, wax.

Off.

Yeah, you were.

Wow.

The fence.

Well, it's, I mean, it's such a a pivotal time though, because I could have been that asshole.

I could have been that victim.

I could have gotten into drugs, gotten into this, and I had.

55:11

You could have been the bad kid in Karate Kid, but instead you were Ralph Macchio.

Yeah, you could have been Cobra.

Karate Kid as that Johnny was the good guy.

Because Ralph Macchio is like actually going after his girlfriend.

Look it.

We're going to end up fighting here on this one, OK, because.

55:27

I know Kung Fu.

That's not even.

I've seen Kenny fight a Chevy.

So I want you.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

By the.

Way you don't.

Want to have?

That smoke so but but listen to what he's saying.

He he didn't end up or have a future that would, he could lean back and say, look how bad my past was.

55:43

But it wasn't.

I mean, kudos to your mom and grandma for kind of, Yeah.

And.

You know, and with all my learning disabilities and all that, like, you know, like I, I easily could have slipped into that that life and gone to jail and whatever.

55:59

But I had two individuals that sat me down, put me on the path And then going to martial arts, like, you know, there's a lot of anger, not having a father figure.

There's a lot of anger of I'll say it, there's a lot of like me cussing out God, like why me?

56:18

Why me?

I had that, you know, and I martial arts this what martial arts has done for me.

It taught me to control my emotions, to look at things subjectively and and and not even knowing it too, you know, as I'm going through this and being being able to take out my aggression on somebody else meaning and sparring.

56:43

But it was such an A big impact in me that like where I I made HD, I can't read, I can't do this.

I'm dyslexic.

Pick it.

And karate taught me how to control myself, not be raging out against the world.

57:03

You know my dad, you know, passing away was a big event in my life.

I'm not going to.

Lie.

It's, well, it's altering.

I I mean.

It's a complete change of trajectory.

But at the same time, though, I was able to overcome that.

57:19

I, you know, it happened at such a young age that it was like, oh, yeah, my dad died.

But at the same time, growing up, I had a lot of anger issues, a lot of resentment towards my stepfather, you know, towards my mom.

And martial arts centered me and to where I still train today, you know, so it's funny.

57:41

I do Kung Fu in the back of station two.

Yeah, I've seen it.

Yeah, I know.

It's one of those things that I hold heart because I know what it did for me, you know, Now I, I can't say that that could work for everybody, but for me, for my life, for what I've been through, I, I can say, yeah, that's, you know, my mom and grandmother putting me in that school and me riding my bike, being there after school for 10:00 at night and just being immersed in it.

58:09

And then growing up and, and what I did with it, you know, not, not fighting in general, but just me as a whole, as a person, you know, made me better.

Who would have thought?

10 weeks at Rex Kwando at 299 for the month you know.

58:26

I would save a lot.

You know, Kenny, that's that story kind of makes me Fast forward to seeing your career and where I've seen you personally flourish was with we all I think unanimously agree with Jim Collier and having him as a male older figure in your life.

58:41

He kind of made a may have replaced a little bit of what you might have not gotten from your father and just kudos to him because that dude is like.

I would agree with you on that.

A leader of leaders, He's amazing.

I'll say this, you know there's a saying in.

We're doctor filling right now.

58:57

I know I love it.

But there's a saying in martial arts, you know, when the students ready, the master will appear.

Victor was one of those people.

You know, when I first started in the fire service, I struggled.

Victor taught me that my body will break before my mind, you know, And then I was able to get on Jim Collier's truck and, you know, him and I became fast friends, father figure, you know, all that stuff.

59:25

And, you know, a super good friend of mine, but I've had two outstanding mentors.

I mean, pretty much it's been Victor and then him.

Yeah.

And I.

Can't.

Well, you kind of had them both in the same station too, didn't you?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jimmy were there man, some of the great, great memory, greatest memories in the fire.

59:42

Service, Yeah, yeah, but I mean.

All the people in the House that was.

Well, you could tell, you know, I drove through your CMS and everything else and you can just tell when you get there.

Just everything vibed and everything just.

It's just barely.

It was pretty awesome.

Breaking down like it was still going strong.

Really.

Up until Jim's retirement, yeah.

59:58

Well I always joke around.

Is that a shift at station 2?

It's the last true Firehouse.

You're getting a lot of hate by that one.

I don't care.

I mean, we're all two men here, Yeah, You know, and there it has to be something to be said about being a Station two guy.

What a great way to close this thing up with the 72 house connection.

1:00:17

Yeah, because that is most certainly something we all share together and that's how we all ended up on this podcast in one way or the other.

That's pretty awesome.

And so Kenny, yes, Sir, thank you.

So.

Much, dude, Yeah, absolutely.

For being making yourself a potentially vulnerable man.

I thank you.

1:00:33

And you know, Victor, your, your research is phenomenal.

You know, me telling you this and then thinking to myself like, oh, is this like, am I elaborating or whatever what I was told?

And there's a part of it's a little bit of closure, you know, a little bit of like, I, I, I'm not lying, I'm not embellishing, you know, it happened.

1:00:58

So thank you for being a nerd.

Yep.

So, well, thank you.

I honestly, I appreciate that.

And that being said, let's clean up, boys.

Yeah, man, good ones on that clean up.

Thanks, Kenny.

Thanks boys.

Awesome.

All right.

Questions, comments?

1:01:13

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