Spy Shop Killer

Grab your spy glasses and prepare to untangle a web of deceit and murder. This opportunistic shitstain gives all us spy nerds a bad name.

Sources:

Spykiller: The Girls in the Desert, Az Channel 3; Briana Whitney

The Killer at the Spy Store, Mayhem in the Desert

Man Arrested in 1997 Phoenix Cold-Case Murder, Azcentral; Paul Davenport

Instagram: 72_media

Email: 72HousePodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

0:00

All right, you fuckers, ready?

Yes.

All right, let's do this. 72 House K Jack 7.

Stabbing 1000 E Mission Dr. 72.

0:17

House K Jack 7.

All right, fellas, let's get it on.

Welcome to 72 House.

This is Rob to my right.

Hey, crazy Rob.

Hey, Fancy, I'm up.

0:34

Hey, howdy.

Howdy.

No, I'm Doctor Garcia Engleman.

Talk.

No, we will not.

Be Rob to the left.

That's.

Around yeah, Quantum Rob.

He's in rare form tonight.

Yes, he is OK.

My name is Rob.

Primarily because it's Arizona, so local.

0:51

Local and.

We've done quite a few of those.

Another sick fuck.

I don't.

I mean, I guess always it is that last.

That last one's going to be hard to beat though, I got to be honest.

It is the South African one.

Ultimate survival story.

Yeah, Yeah, it is incredible.

That's incredible.

This guy's.

1:07

Thinking about.

It every bit as sick is the last and I don't know if you guys have heard of this.

This was like in 1997, there was a he killed A at minimum of a few different people, but they dubbed him the Spy Shop killer.

1:23

Where is this?

This is city, Arizona, Yeah, Phoenix area basically is where he had his shop.

The Spy shop killer.

Spy shop Killer.

Maybe it'll click when we get going on it.

So April 4th, 1997, Ginger Rios and her husband Mark Hollinger were out shopping for furniture near the UNLV area.

1:45

So this is in right now where we're starting is in Vegas.

OK.

So they bought a new house in Vegas.

They're out buying furniture.

Ginger notices a spy shop in the strip mall they were shopping at.

I don't know about you guys, but it's interesting to me that people see the spy shop and just like, oh, that's interesting and pop in.

2:07

Dude, I remember, I vividly remember the spy shop.

No.

I I there was a shop in the mall where I grew up and I vividly remember buying all that, Like the glasses, The glasses with the mirrors on the side so you can see behind you.

Do you remember that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

2:23

OK.

I'm not Rob.

You're you're left out.

You're a dork.

Nope, that's not true, 'cause I was a spy, I was spying on you.

Yeah, you.

Missed out on the spy stuff.

Missed.

On on this I spy with my eye a little fancy.

Remember the SO?

Remember the Watch radio?

2:39

Alright, whatever.

So Ginger sees the shop and at the on the front door of the shop, there's an advertisement for a book that says, hey, this is how you're going to raise your credit.

And so, so she's young, they're young.

So she's like, well, shit, I'll go in and get that book and, you know, it'll help us hopefully get our finances in order.

2:58

So Mark, the husband's like, hey, well, I'm going to stay out here and have a smoke because apparently she wouldn't let him smoke with her near.

So he's like, yeah, go ahead, I'll be right here.

Yeah.

Can you catch me up to the time frame we're at here?

1997.

3:15

OK, got it.

Yeah.

He's he's, he's guilty.

Guilty.

He just sounds guilty to me.

Guilty.

All right, I'm just going to go ahead and call it.

I was wrong the last few times, though.

Not a good track record.

So she goes into the spy shop and that's the last time anyone saw Ginger Rios so.

3:35

Wait, she came in, never went out?

Came in, never went.

Out Well, her husband was smoking.

Husband was smoking.

I'm thinking the GIMP from Pulp Fiction.

Oh, bring out the GIMP.

That's that's what I'm seeing in my head.

Not far, to be honest with you to some extent.

OK, so as you can imagine, a little time goes by and the husband's like shit man, she's taking forever.

3:55

Which I could probably sit there for 10 hours and think it's probably normal, right?

I wouldn't.

Yeah, if your wife's a shopper.

Exactly.

So some time passed and he's like, hey, what the fuck?

So he goes into the spy shop and he's greeted by the store owner, a guy named John Flowers.

4:14

John.

Oh, she's pretty.

Yep, that.

Was super pretty.

No.

He's on.

Her so she so she was 20 years old at the time, right?

Correct.

That's where it says age 20.

Well, I'm just for the for our listeners, you Dick jeepers.

God damn.

4:30

Rub my butt.

I'll crawl out.

Crawl out of my butt, dude.

So Mark, the husband, asks John Flowers, the store owner, if he had seen his wife.

He describes her and John says, yeah, she was in here.

4:45

She bought a book and left and so he's thinking in his mind, shit I must have missed her.

She probably came out and cruised into another store.

Yeah.

So.

How long did it take you to smoke a cigarette?

Couple minutes.

Right, I don't know how.

5:00

Long.

I mean, unless he's just.

Going to the spy shop.

What was your question?

The no, the reason why he couldn't go to the spider, because he was, he was gonna have a smoke.

He was gonna have a smoke.

Smoke, smoke, right?

He's just doing his thing.

He's hanging.

Out.

Well, that's what I'm trying to, that's what I'm trying to get an idea of.

If he's outside, his wife goes inside, he stays outside to have a smoke.

5:17

What is that 5 minutes?

Even if he's like taking his time, isn't that like maybe 5 minutes?

I'm not a smoker.

I'd say.

I don't know.

Will you just play pretenses with me?

OK, OK.

I'm just saying I'm trying to get a reference because if she was in there for like 30 minutes then he could.

It's different than just 5, right?

5:34

Yeah, I don't know the amount of time that he sat and waited before.

He went in.

All right then let's just drop it.

Yeah, that wasn't specified.

We're trying to, Lance, so we're trying to.

Mark, he goes and checks every store.

He can't find her.

5:50

He starts getting worried.

They call police.

So this is some strip mall Phoenix.

Yep, it's I think it was on 7th St. and Camelback.

Oh, good part of town.

Yep.

I thought, I thought this was in Vegas.

Shop not, no, no, no.

So he had two stores.

I'm sorry.

6:05

The one in Phoenix here was on 7th in Camelback.

This one that they're at now in Vegas is on, it's near UNLV.

OK, got it.

But where all this took place was in Phoenix.

No, I'm lost.

That's a whole other part that we'll get to.

6:21

But this, right now, this disappearance, all these things are happening in Las Vegas.

OK, got it.

OK, which is just like Phoenix.

But Vegas, but pretty much the same.

Yeah, same, but different.

Yeah, it's same but different.

So a frantic search begins, right?

6:38

Obviously, as you guys would think, the initial suspect is Mark Hollinger, the husband.

PD gets on scene and they're like, you know, they hear the story and they're like, well, this sounds like fucking bullshit.

You know, she, you're telling me she goes in the store and don't come out.

You're out here smoking a cigarette, you know, and, and they had they, you know, like any couple, they fought a little here and there and those things get brought up.

7:01

PD knows that statistically it's the husband.

Yeah.

So they.

Yeah, but it was in front of a spy store, which I could only assume, and there's about 1700 cameras well inside that store.

We'll get to that too.

Thank you.

Case dismissed.

It it actually though didn't.

7:16

That's a gavel I.

Bet you they didn't see that coming.

It didn't take long for them to figure out, hey, Mark didn't do this because the the stores that they were in, the people that were there, they were able to go yeah, hey, they were here, you know, and and trace his steps to go.

7:33

Yeah, she did go into this place and he was standing out here.

So it really didn't take too terribly long to figure that piece of it out.

So being as Mark is cleared, you go OK, well, the only other person that saw her admittedly was John Flowers.

7:51

So simultaneously he's also being questioned by the Police Department, John.

Correct.

So John's story when the police go in and talk to him is that Ginger had purchased a book on how to disappear and walked out of the store.

8:11

So you can already see the.

Fucking yeah.

You know this guy's.

A He's making this shit up on the fly 'cause he's an.

Idiot.

Exactly.

Yeah, he's a fucking.

Idiot, I know what happened.

She put on a a mustache and sunglasses and her husband didn't even know.

Walked right past him, that's right and had no fucking clue.

8:29

With a cigar.

Come on.

Jan.

Off to San Diego.

San Diego, I I could see him like getting up from like the table in front of the cops being like, right, guys, I just told you what happened.

So can I go?

Yeah.

That's the story.

That's the story, right guys?

That's how good.

8:44

That book is I know a few people I want to buy it for, I'll tell you that.

All right, So her husband's gone or off the suspect list.

Off the suspect list.

OK.

And they questioned this this, this kind of pudgy partly, dude.

Yep, they they questioned John.

9:00

He says hey man, she was in here purchased the book has a had to disappear.

Has an ironclad alibi.

Ironclad, yeah.

So he's at, he's not asked initially about footage because obviously he's a fucking spy shop.

Like you said, he should have cameras everywhere.

9:16

He says that.

Yeah.

Well, so first they didn't get it right away.

OK, So Fast forward, the father ends up thinking about this before police and calls down to the shop.

Her father, Her father, Correct and says, hey, do you have footage of my daughter in there?

9:36

And the guy, John Flower, says, yes, I do.

And he said can I come get it?

Absolutely.

Come on down.

Flowers are saying there's really not much on it.

It's kind of boring just me murdering someone or something her into a book so.

This guy's name is George Rios, the father, and he shows up down there right as this guy's locking the shop up with his wife.

9:59

And he tells him, hey, I'm getting ready to head out to Phoenix right now to another shop.

So I don't get a lot of time.

And he's like, well, I came to get this video.

And he tells him, oh, you know what, man?

I pulled it and I recorded over it.

It's gone.

Oh yeah, there you go.

Well, all right, That's it.

10:16

Wrap.

That's a wrap.

Wrap it up.

Yeah.

Case solved.

Yeah, case solved.

He didn't do it.

So unbelievable the this is one that I would think PD would have been on top of.

Hey, she disappeared, Dude, in this shop, there's a camera, you know, like that.

10:32

Doesn't seem too difficult to me.

Of a stretch to go.

Yeah, they shouldn't have missed that one, but they do, unfortunately.

Isn't that like your job?

You know, what would you say you do around here?

10:50

If you're not pulling surveillance videos?

Do.

You have to have a college degree to be a cup.

I think so.

No, I don't think so.

Criminal law, yeah, I think.

You don't.

Firemen.

Nope.

I thought you had to be having associates in, you know, like calisthenics or something, no?

11:06

So in calisthenics.

Not just saying we'll take anybody, anybody, anybody want to be a cop, we'll take anybody.

Come on down.

Yeah, Yeah.

That's what that's what I mean.

I wouldn't want.

To be a cop these.

Days so so the police investigators as well as Ginger's family continued to search absolutely no results for months.

11:26

They they had hired so that spy shop had hired a new employee like right at that time.

And the deal was, like I said, he was going to go to Phoenix to open up another spy shop.

He's doing that well.

Well, apparently, and this whole thing gets even really goofy at the end, but we'll we'll get into that.

11:45

And so this kid says that he's 20 years old.

He comes to the spy store and he said the guy kind of cracks the door open and he's he thinks that it's the police and he makes him kind of clear who he is and then lets him in.

12:05

So is he not like maintaining business at this time?

Like is he kind of closed down?

I think anybody can walk into a store, right?

Yeah, I think he's pretty much staying low right now and keeping the doors shut.

Maybe they'll just forget about the murdering of the missing.

The missing.

People, that's how it usually plays.

12:21

Out.

Well, yeah, you go, hey, what is it?

The the 10 shift rule.

Exactly.

OK, so.

What's the 10 shift rule?

Catch me up, I forget.

After 10 shifts like whatever this is, the hot topic typically dies away and it's like if I.

Come and say hey guys, no more PT shorts at 5:00.

12:36

Well you wear your PT shorts at until you know 5 for 10 shifts and then you can go back to wearing them whatever.

The fuck you want?

I just kind of just always did it.

That's why you're written up 73 * 73.

Right now you're a model employee 24.

Years, yeah.

That's impressive.

12:52

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not even angry at you.

No.

So.

So this guy, right?

This new employee's name is David Benson.

He comes in, the guy's acting completely fucking weird.

He hires him and he says, hey, I'm going to Phoenix in two days, so.

To open up a new story.

13:09

To open up a new store and this guy's like fuck, man, you just hired me.

I'm brand new, you know, and.

Yeah, you're promoted manager.

Yeah, basically he's a manager slash owner.

You're on your own, kid.

Yeah.

And so this guy's like, hey, it was weird because they.

Sell the X-ray glasses.

They're about to expire those.

13:25

Disappearing books they're selling like hot cakes.

Dude, you remember like the hovercraft and the and the Sears magazine or whatever, you know, the hovercraft, the hovercraft and the and the X-ray goggles.

I bought all that shit.

It was crap.

It didn't work at all.

Yeah.

Sea Monkeys.

Yeah.

They're just crabs.

13:40

Yeah, it was all right.

Sorry.

So.

So this guy says it was weird.

He said he was taking me, kind of showing me around.

He takes me to the back of the shop and he said it smells really bad back there.

13:58

And they go out the back like into the the street of the backside of the unit and there's a van and.

Of course there is.

Yep, the chomo.

Van no windows.

Yeah, and he tells the guy, hey, man, I'm sorry, it smells, but I dumped some bleach where the dogs piss over there.

14:16

And so he's like, all right, whatever, man, you know?

Yeah.

I'm pretty sure 20 year old dipshit you know, I mean no offense.

You know this chick's bodies are rotting.

Well, yes, no, because the police definitely would have done their job, Rob, and cleared the entirety of the, that's right, the property.

14:34

You would think, but no.

So here's the crazy thing too.

Remember I told you the dad came right?

Who is now the lead detective because he's the only one who thought about the surveillance videos.

Can you imagine Johnson in the corner going, yeah, why don't I think of that?

14:51

What's that smell?

Oh my God, What's?

That smell?

Oh, bleach.

Bleach on urine, you know.

Hey, Captain, it's.

The old bleach on urine smell just like it's station two, Yeah.

That actually is very true.

Yeah, crystallized urine.

So.

So what we know now is that when the dad came to the shop, the guy was there and he hadn't left to Phoenix yet.

15:16

So we know now that as he was there at the shop, his daughter's body was in the back in that van.

Yeah.

Dude they didn't even like try to hide it at all really.

15:33

No, it's.

Like they like they just try to get caught I guess.

So you left the you left the store in charge of a 20 year old kid who you just hired.

Leave the your your evidence in a van behind the store.

Well, that was only he He hadn't left yet, so he's going to take that van to Phoenix.

15:51

Oh, OK, How?

Long are you in like working as a first responder, as a cop or a fireman or a medic?

And how long really are you on the job for you to really not know what that smell is?

We've all smelled those bodies.

16:07

It's.

Very, very.

Distinct.

Very.

Yeah, even if it's not.

From 100 yards away, a.

Dog or an animal?

From 100 yards away, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

What?

Like you, you go.

That's something.

Something.

'S dead, no?

Amount of bullshit that's not.

Yeah, it's kind of just like that certain time of year when the carob tree smell and you're like, I know that smell.

16:25

You know, the carob tree smell smells like college.

Yeah.

Smells like.

Yeah.

Very true.

So getting on to John Flowers, this is normally the part of the of the podcast when I, when I go into in depth with John Flowers and we talk about his past and all those things.

16:45

But unfortunately slash fortunately there is not much on him as far as that goes, birth, childhood, all of those things.

But what we do know is this.

He had a lot of aliases.

Over a 20 year period, he used 13 different aliases that police can account for.

17:02

Poor guy, he had an identity crisis.

Indeed he did, John.

What was his wait?

Lance is going to appreciate this question.

I want it.

What was his childhood name?

The refrigerator from what what it looks like.

Craig.

17:18

He's a he's a healthy eater.

Well, so that's actually where I'm getting to, Rob, is that John Flowers was actually one of his aliases.

OK.

His actual birth name was Craig Leslie Jacobson.

Craig Leslie Jabinson.

17:35

Correct.

So what was he doing with these aliases?

Well, we'll get to that.

He, the guy is a bona fide wacko.

Oh, cool.

So we'll, we'll get to that.

So he was arrested in Florida in 1991 as the mastermind of an attempted plot against the FBI.

17:55

What, you asked The aliases.

So yes, this is where, again, it gets totally goofy.

So he.

Apparently.

Spy.

Where do these fucking people come from?

This is what I'm telling you man, You, you can't make this.

Idea that you can do that, I don't know, I mean this doesn't like admired.

18:12

Well, so get this.

Wow.

Is that him now?

What he was doing was purchasing high end computer chips and attempting to work for the Fbis and informant.

So basically what's happening is he's buying these illegal chips and he wants to narc off anyone else involved and become this FBI informant.

18:39

That's like a true lies.

Literally.

Wow.

So he's in Florida, it's 1991.

He has these neighbors and they work at a law firm that's next door to the FB is office.

So they share a wall, right?

18:56

John steals the keys.

Doesn't seem very FBI ish.

Well, I mean, to some extent, you know, you'll see.

So John steals these keys from his friends right to the law shop and attempts to place basically bugs on the wall so that he can listening devices so that he can find information about these FBI people.

19:18

He's like living what he's all about.

You know what I mean?

Like he's not, he's not doing a spy shop to make money.

He like he really he is the spy shop.

He.

Is the spy shop.

So get this, he does get information on one of these FBI agents.

19:34

Hold on.

And you don't.

He's not previous military.

We don't know anything.

He's not no, he's not Previous military, no.

Well, I mean, minus the murdering he sounds like.

A yeah, maybe Salvation Army, Yeah.

I don't know, ringing the bell?

Ring the bell.

Ringing the bell?

So he he was actually able to get some damaging information about one of the FBI agents working out of that business and at the time was attempting to extort the agent and his family, right.

20:01

Very so Epstein ish.

He's the guy is a complete whack job.

Basically, he's not dumb with gigantic.

Balls.

Too.

Yeah, I mean, you don't, You don't do this without gigantic balls, right?

No doubt.

Wow, so the feds were actually in this?

20:20

You'll see how this ties in.

But they were actively investigating John for the illegal listening devices that he had obtained from the black market and was selling in his stores, right?

So he's under investigation right now, hey.

What's that mean in the black market?

20:36

I keep hearing that, but I've never.

Ever seen now?

I know, but like it's.

Where all the crazy shit goes on.

Like where you can get like C4 and like super illegal shit.

C. 345 whatever you.

Want it takes?

Yeah.

Whatever it takes, buddy.

20:52

How do you get in touch with said black market?

You.

You.

It's like you.

Gotta know a guy who knows a guy.

Yeah, it's like Fight Club you don't talk about.

It.

That's right.

Should we not?

Should we stop talking?

About you should stop him right now probably.

You don't know who you're with.

So so these things happen, right?

21:08

He moves to Phoenix but he is under the FBI are have an active.

Investigation is the toilet bowl of the South.

Outstanding.

I don't know how that fit in, but.

It's just all the fucking bad people come here.

Oh, OK, gotcha.

Now that makes more sense.

21:24

OK, so the feds, they're working on this thing.

They finally get enough information to obtain a search warrant.

They show up at this guy's Phoenix location to search the facility.

They walk in.

John's not there, but his wife is there.

21:41

And we'll, we'll get into a little bit more depth about that, too.

But her name is Cheryl Chacon, so.

Is that her real name?

That's her real name, so so.

That sounds a little mafia ish.

So get this, wife's there F1.

Alias what do you?

Mean I know weak.

21:58

Chacon sounds like.

Something.

Definitely sounds like something you're right.

Yeah, Al Capone, come on, you guys are hard reset.

22:15

Oh I I thought it was a hard reset like I.

Thought so.

Damn.

You stroked out from the quantum stuff.

Oh man, I just, I'm fucking have to lower myself down to your.

Level.

Oh, you stop.

It good God.

OK, you're going to have to try harder that pal the room.

All right, Jesus Christ.

22:32

Back to the story, I'm dying here.

Fucking can't.

See.

Can somebody turn the light on over there?

It's really, really dim.

Easy, Jesus.

It's certainly at the top, isn't it, Rob?

It is.

I know, God damn.

It's called illusions of grandeur.

So actually it's like I'm down here and party, dude.

OK, come down here bro.

22:52

Oh, so the FBI agents, they come into the the spy shop.

OK, John's not there, Wife says they go, hey, we've got a search warrant.

Wife says, you got to help me.

This guy murdered a woman and.

She fucking steals her beats.

23:09

She doesn't.

It's just fucking.

She folded like a cheap lawn chair, like it was him.

And the whole time, I swear to God, yeah, he's so.

Yeah.

So she literally want to.

Live they they didn't know what happened.

The FBI is like what the fuck is?

There probably there to buy like legit spy shit from him and she's like I'll tell you whatever you want to know everything.

23:27

That's pretty much what happened and how it shook out.

Wow.

Hey, you have any transistors?

Oh God, he did.

It wasn't me.

Jimmy.

Hoffaau, I just came here to buy some spy stuff from you, but I guess I well addressed your husband since you're vitamin.

I know that that's my that's my cop in person.

23:44

That's pretty good.

That's sounds pretty dead on.

That's where I thought they were at.

OK, so, so as it turns out, I didn't tell you guys at the time because I didn't, I wanted to build up to it here, but wow, Cheryl.

That's called edging.

It was edging you.

You're.

Edging us?

Yeah.

24:01

So, Cheryl.

Sorry dude.

I'm I have a weird form as well.

Hispanic male.

Yes.

So Cheryl was there when Ginger had walked into the store.

He told her, hey, I need you to go buy some film from wherever place.

24:17

So she takes off and that's when he kills Ginger.

She comes back from the store buying the film and walks to the door and he says don't go in the back.

I did something bad.

Eventually, obviously, she makes it to the bat.

24:34

I did a bat again.

I did a bat again.

What'd you?

Do.

What'd you do?

Come on.

Yeah, again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mr. Flowers, what happened?

That's that's exactly what it sounded like to me just.

Go to the front of the store and don't ask any questions.

24:51

OK Oh, by the way, can you go to the store and buy me some bleach?

We got a we got a There's urine.

Yeah.

There's a bunch of rabid dogs taking pisses back here and.

There's a couple of saws.

Yeah.

Yeah, God, Yep.

25:08

And so she.

Here's 20 bucks, get yourself something nice, get some Skittles or.

Something spin it all in one.

Place, don't spin it all in one place.

We know any of the background on this?

His wife.

No, no, she's not the launcher.

I remember that she helped solve the case, but she's not important.

25:24

Well she's fucking doing better than cops and the FBI.

But she's she's not part of it.

No, she's not, No.

But was he gonna drive that van with her in it from?

Vegas to Hold on.

We'll get there.

We'll get.

There big guy I'm trying to piece.

OK, so he's edging you, man.

You're.

I'm I'm dude, I'm at the I'm.

25:39

Right back.

I'm right there.

All right.

I appreciate it.

OK, Just OK.

So she gets back there and finds that Ginger Rios on the ground, bleeding from an obvious head wound.

And at this point, John grabs Cheryl, his wife, puts her up against the wall, chokes her and tells her, hey, you see right now what I can do?

26:04

You say 1 fucking word about this and I'm going to do you just like I did her.

I'm going to take you into the desert and bury you, and your body will never be found.

Jesus.

This isn't his first time.

Yeah, I know he's got other aliases.

But he told her the desert is littered with bodies.

26:22

That's what he told his wife.

That he he said that to his wife.

He said that to his.

Wife, he's a fucking like, is he a serial killer?

Well, I mean, I don't know what technically the definition of that is, but he killed multiple people, yes.

He did.

Also, he wasn't lying.

26:38

No, he wasn't lying.

That's awesome.

Did they go exhume all those bodies?

Well, they exhumed what they could find.

So, and we'll, you know, we'll, we'll talk about some of that.

So investigators obviously start talking with Cheryl and he made her help him clean up the mess, cut her into pieces, all of those things.

27:03

She's.

Fucking guilty bro.

Well, that that's a tough one.

No, it's not.

This guy's literally she's.

Fucking no, I'm going now like Lance was saying like a few podcasts ago, you know right and wrong.

Well, helping your husband chop up a body she.

Literally though walked into her husband killing someone and says I'm going to kill you too.

27:20

I mean, I could.

Understand, I'm not, I'm not going to lie.

I mean, that's that's a Good Wife.

Well.

Right.

And is that what you were thinking?

No, I'm not thinking that.

I'm not thinking that at.

All did I misread that you did like always?

Like always.

So so they get the body, they put it in bags and they drive out.

27:41

They start this is now where they start heading towards Arizona, right?

He so they drive out outside of Vegas, just on the outskirts of southern Arizona near Florence in Penal County.

And they get off into like a pretty remote area and he takes the body up above a brim and buries the body using concrete as like a basically something over the top to so the dirt doesn't get moved around.

28:16

Right.

Doesn't sink when she decomposes, right?

This guy's fucking thought this shit out.

So is this like his burial?

Spot.

This is his burial.

Spot So he does.

He normally live in Vegas and he comes to bury him in in Florence.

No, he lives in Vegas.

28:32

Well, you'll see when we talk about the second one, but he lives in Vegas and he's going to open up a shop down there.

But what we do find out is yes, he had been there prior.

OK.

So makes sense.

So this gets to what you're talking about, Lance.

So unknown to the investigators is that several months earlier on May 10th, 1997, a group of hunters stumbled across the grave slash body of a female.

28:59

This grave was very close like to the tune of about 20 yards away from where Ginger Rios was located.

So obviously when they go to find the body of Ginger with Cheryl, John's wife, they figure out, hey, there's another crime scene right there.

29:20

And so that also is the first break in that case, if that makes sense, right?

Because they didn't know that woman that they had found was a Jane Doe.

They couldn't figure out anything about her.

No identify markers or.

29:35

Dental records or nothing, Yeah, she didn't come up as anything.

So they not.

Even a missing person then.

Not even a missing person.

And we'll talk about why she's a prostitute.

She's not, but that's what you would think.

Yeah, well, I mean, what?

Was she doing in the spy store?

No, not her.

29:51

The unknown body that was.

She was not a prostitute.

Ginger Ginger's not a prostitute.

The one that neither.

One.

Really.

Yeah, Yep.

Agree to disagree.

Lady of the Night.

So, so like I say, she's listed as a Jane Doe.

They police find Ginger and go, obviously we think these two are connected.

30:10

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to put those two things together.

John got wind of this and went on the run.

He made it to California and was caught a few days later.

So John, once he was caught, would admit to the Ginger Rios murder.

30:29

Did he say why?

Why?

What?

Why?

Why did he kill her?

Did he rape her?

Like what?

He was.

What I'm on your side with Rob with like the psychology behind that, Like you're you just like obviously like he didn't know her, right?

Right at all.

She's just a random person and he took a risk.

30:46

He didn't know her.

He didn't know if someone was waiting outside, smoking a cigarette, waiting for her.

He didn't know if someone was going to walk into the.

He didn't know if his wife was going to, like, catch him.

Like how do you just have that can compulsion still like just murder whack someone with a.

Beautiful.

31:01

What was it with a hammer?

You said there was a no force to the head.

Yeah, and he didn't say, at least in the stuff that I read, he didn't say what he hit her with.

He just said he hit her in the head.

So obviously bad enough to kill her, right?

Yes.

So eventually, right, John confesses to the second murder.

31:21

He tells police her name is Mary Stoddard and that he had met her at the lake and took her home, had sex with her, strangled her and killed her.

Jeez.

And so.

See the dude.

I know he's disgusting.

Fuck, man.

Yeah, he looks like a rapist and a murderer to me.

31:39

Again, he's got that creepy look about.

Him again, this is like a perspective that we as males are never going to fucking have.

And I'm kind of just.

It's very upsetting, just.

Women are that's, they're just, it's, it's just sad.

31:57

It's just sad societies like that that they even need to worry about shit like this.

But yeah, it's been that way since the beginning of time, yeah.

Dude, it's just sad.

So this Mary Stoddard that he says the second woman is again, this guy's not very smart.

Police do a minimal investigation and find out that Mary Stoddard is actually someone in Florida that he had lived with years ago.

32:19

She, oh, he knew her.

He knew her from way back.

When he knew a Mary Stoddard.

This is not Mary Stoddard.

The woman that he said is Mary Stoddard is not.

Oh, he's lying.

He's lying.

OK, I.

Got to go.

So what?

He's also a.

Liar.

No.

32:36

Is there no more morals with killers?

Yeah.

Is there no end?

Is there no end to the nonsense?

Hey, Victor.

So to be clear, who dropped the ball and the investigation at it was Vegas, right?

Not Phoenix?

Well, there's actually two different investigations.

32:54

I'm not sure why it is, but the Jane Doe was being investigated by Las Vegas.

The other girl, Ginger Rios, was investigated by Arizona police.

So I'm not sure why the difference.

So I can't, I don't know that you can say anyone necessarily.

33:11

Dropped them all, right?

So Mary Stoddard, right?

She's still alive, She's in Florida.

That's not the person he said.

It was so around the same time.

Well, good for her.

She's still alive.

So this is in 1997, right?

And so we'll remember this, but this is right at the time that Myspace came out.

33:31

And Yep.

And a woman is looking for old friends.

She goes through all her friends.

She says the only one that she can't find is this girl, her best friend named Christina Martinez.

So she reaches out to Christina's family.

33:47

Her family says, hey, we got no idea where she is.

We haven't seen her in years.

And as it turns out, you get the history into Christina Martinez.

She was a young girl, about 15-16 years old.

She had a lot of home problems.

34:04

She spent most of her time in and out of group homes.

And yeah, and her best friend, this is the person that is on Myspace looking for her.

She spent a lot of time at her house living with her.

And so as you can imagine, when she left, she was also what was considered a chronic runaway.

34:22

So when she, yes, when she went missing, basically the family's like, well, she just ran away for good finally.

They just gave up.

On her they just gave up on.

Her you go out and you remember that from Billy Madison.

No.

You get out there and you find that fucking dog, is what I'm saying.

34:39

You know what I mean?

Like, you just don't give up after like one or two hours.

I don't know.

All right.

That was a good one, that.

Was I'm just saying yeah, the I get the analogy.

I I get it, yeah.

So except.

The dog is the human being.

We got it.

Lance, did you?

That was a good yeah.

34:54

Did you follow?

Yeah, It was creative.

I was trying to break it down for you guys cuz.

You Yeah, OK, All right, all right, we're.

Gonna move on.

We'll move on.

That's right, pal, You don't.

You don't wanna compete with this.

So Christina's friend, mom, she didn't like the answer she was being given and she's really the only person left that cared about her.

35:13

So she calls the police and files a missing person report.

She would eventually get in contact with the detective from the Ginger Rios murder.

She was able to tell police a few things that no one could know unless they truly knew the victim at the time of her death.

35:29

For instance, Christina was found with a gold ring on her finger with the letter M on it.

This woman was able to say, Hey, me and Christina you.

Sure it wasn't a W?

No, it was an M for Martinez.

That is actually well, according to these.

35:44

Martinez, Martinez or Martinez?

Martinez Yeah, it's a soft come on water.

She was from Oaxaca.

It's a different place.

Wahaca.

That's right.

Haktua.

So this girl was able to say hey me and Christina we were pan handlers.

36:00

We panhandled for a week to to raise up $150.00 to go to the SWAT meet so she could buy this ring with an M on it for Martinez.

That's probably, yeah.

Panhandle.

Maybe food?

Yeah, food's cool.

Jeez, why can't you just do drugs like a normal PAN handler?

36:17

Jeez, I was back in the late 90s.

It wasn't that expects her to get heroin.

Yeah, right.

Jesus.

So Christina, all the pictures they had of her had long hair, and at the time though she was killed, the body they found had short hair, a Bob haircut, the friend was able to say.

36:36

She's dead, so.

They asked her hey what type of haircut did.

Apparently you'd lose your hair and it turned to grow completely different.

Yeah, after you die.

It shrinks.

Yeah.

I thought they don't.

They say that your hair continues to grow when you die.

Is that like a that's like a wife's tale?

I've got no clue.

36:52

So I don't know.

The friend was able to say, hey, she got a haircut just like few days earlier.

And so then when they asked her what kind of hair did she have, she said, oh, it was short and a Bob.

She just got it cut.

And so the Long story short is they were able to identify her as Christina Martinez, at least tentatively, and go, OK, we believe that these are accurate and this is Christina Martinez, right?

37:16

Depends on yeah.

So what's?

The one with the ring.

That was how they tentatively identified her, but.

Narrowed it down right.

So here's the crazy part again.

Some of these things.

You know, we've done these podcasts for a while.

Do we can we honestly look at each other and say we have a lot of faith in our law enforcement?

37:35

Well, it's hard to.

Probably want to edit that out, but.

Over all of the real positive.

Ones you know True, true, true.

So they start now trying to figure out, OK, where is Christina's body buried because she was a Jane Doe?

I have an idea.

Where?

37:53

I'll let you tell me.

OK, so.

She was a Jane Doe.

So if you can, if you think about it, this basically what the state did is they they contracted companies to take these bodies and bury them in a cemetery.

And the company, because they were Jane Doe's, they would dig massive graves and put multiple bodies in the graves.

38:16

They weren't tagged.

Really.

Yeah, they weren't.

Separated like this is in the like almost 2000s.

Yeah, yeah, They really Seriously.

Yes.

Wow.

So when they.

Anything to save a buck I.

Guess you think all those Janes are related to John Doe like.

It's a possibility, brother and sister.

38:32

So so they go to try and get DNA and they have no clue.

Where now?

How do you spell that?

Her body is and so it, as you can imagine, that puts a damper on the investigation.

Luckily, as you said, are there any good law enforcement?

38:49

The detective who had started that case took a piece of her femur and did put that into evidence.

So they were able eventually to get DNA evidence and.

This couldn't cut her hair.

Yeah.

Well, they didn't remember.

39:05

They didn't have her body.

They didn't have her body well.

How did he get a femur?

I told you the detective put away a piece of DNA before she was shipped out.

Oh, he just did that on his own.

He did correct.

39:21

Nice.

Crafty, right?

He probably shopped at the spy store.

Got a bone testing kit?

That's right.

So this woman actually, so this is Christina's best friend, right?

She told detectives a story about the last time she had seen Christina.

39:38

She said they were out about doing whatever they were doing.

They end up coming upon a spy shop.

That's what we had talked about in the beginning, the spy shop on 7th Ave. and Camelback.

So they come up to the spy shop and go let's cruise into there and check it out.

39:55

They go in and they run into John Flowers.

She says that they're looking at some things and she notices this guy's locking the door behind him.

No shit.

And she tells Christina.

This is total fucking Pulp Fiction.

Yeah, I was going to hell.

40:11

I was going to say yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

He's so.

Wake him up.

She tells Christina, hey, you see what the hell this guy's doing?

She's like, let's get out of here.

She's like, this guy is creeping me out.

No.

And so.

Fog spray behind her shoes.

You know, creative.

Mist.

Yeah, I need that.

Yeah, exactly.

40:27

Oil slick.

Oil slick, Yeah, that's.

Right.

I got an idea, guys.

Yeah. 6 shoes Goonies.

Baby Goonies.

Baby, that's what I'm talking about.

Yeah, I'll never.

Forget that.

Yeah, there's.

No way.

Forever.

Oh, big time.

Yeah.

Goonies never die.

That's right, that's what I meant this.

Was never die, yeah.

40:43

Cut that out.

Cut that out.

Or Goonies never say die whatever one of the other.

One of the two.

So they leave, and she doesn't think really much of it after that.

But as she tells police this story, they're like, holy shit, that's that's the guy, you know?

41:00

Yeah, that's, that's his place.

This is MO.

You cracked the case.

Yeah, great, Great work, Johnson Field Promotion, the case.

Again, still, I'm lacking confidence.

You dropped the ball in the CCV footage, but yeah.

OK, so so we'll we'll get to kind of the punishment of this whole thing.

41:20

So as everything unfolds, you guys followed obviously the story.

They're able to confirm via DNA evidence and the wife's confession that John Flowers indeed did kill Ginger Rios and he ultimately confessed also to the Mortinez murder, Right, Rob?

41:46

Is that what it is?

The.

Martinez or Martinez?

Yeah, depending on what side of the ring you run.

To the Martinez murder.

Which he lied about, by the way.

He's also a liar.

He's a liar.

Even worse at all, yes.

That's his worst offense yet.

So here's the craziest part of all of this.

42:01

So he's goes to court and initially for the Ginger Rios murder, for whatever reason they decide that they don't think they've got a strong enough case against him to run it through the whole the whole legal system and try for life without the possibility of parole.

42:20

So they settle a plea deal with this guy.

Fuck.

Pro.

God damn it.

He receives 20 years to life, which would put him eligible for parole in 2018.

So he goes to jail, right?

42:36

For.

So.

So 20 years of life, when is it?

When is he eligible for parole?

Is it before 20?

Years 2018, 2018.

Well, I know, but I mean.

Well, you said you know, but you just asked what he just told you Very well, it's.

Business math.

It's a different kind of math.

42:52

So was this.

I carry the one. 97, right?

So this happened in 97.

Oh boy, here we go with the math.

Hey man, am I the only one?

So, so he goes to jail for the Ginger Rios murder.

43:07

They settle for a plea, which again, I I for the life of me can't figure out why.

Fast forward, John Flowers is extradited to Phoenix in 2015 to face charges of murder.

Now for Christina Martinez, he's deemed mentally incapable to stand Trump.

43:25

Yeah, of course, you know.

Man.

The same people don't murder people, so you have to be insane if you murder someone, right?

So this is where this drives me nuts.

Our last case that we talked about where the guy tried to fake mental illness, it it because I mean, this is all subjective.

43:44

Yeah, exactly.

It's all subjective, but.

You go who?

Cares, but the people even determine whether or not that he's fit to stand.

Try.

It doesn't matter, you did it.

Right.

Yeah, you did.

It that's all I'm trying to like bring the light is like at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

You know what I mean?

Like you, you, you can't be in society because of whatever I mean, I'm it sucks.

44:05

I feel for you.

You got.

Can we?

People telling you shit in your head.

Can we swing the other way and do a podcast or find a story that there was somebody, the convicted of murderer that actually didn't do it?

Let's do a true crime podcast on a guy where because it kind.

44:22

Of.

Bounces out.

Yeah.

He's falsely accused evidence and everything else.

Because that's why I do believe that there is a level of due diligence that exist in the justice system.

Lacey Manson fucking seems like it fails us left and right.

What'd you say?

Lacey Peterson, Scott Peterson, He didn't do it, he said.

44:42

So he says, all right guys, all right.

Back to the story.

So in 2016, thankfully, a judge overturns that ruling and says, hey, this guy's faking it.

No, it's not.

44:58

This mental illness thing's not going to work.

Can they hold the fucking psychologist that told them that?

Could they hold those people accountable?

I don't know, but they should.

So by this time one of the witnesses had died and the case had lost some of its strength.

45:15

So again, the prosecution settles for a plea deal.

He was convicted of murder 2 and sentenced to 16 additional years.

He's set to be released from prison in October of 2031.

He'll.

Be dead.

No, I mean very likely.

45:32

Is he in prison in Arizona or is he in prison in Nevada?

Arizona.

So Florence.

I assume he's at Florence, yes?

Right where he's burying those.

Yeah, no doubt right where he belongs.

Close to, I mean with.

Yeah, really.

So here's here's something interesting too.

45:47

I thought you guys would just gets into the sickness of this fucking guy.

So the the author of the story that I that I took most of this information from.

It was a really good actually documentary about these cases.

She receives an e-mail from John Flowers and it's actually he uses his Jacobson name, so Craig Jacobson.

46:09

So here's the e-mail that she receives, and this is on March 11th, 2024, so not long ago, right?

Don't you?

You're you're, I'm kind of worried.

So he says.

We're going to be next.

Yeah, no doubt.

Yeah, this is too close to home, man.

46:25

He's.

Around the corner.

So he says hello.

I'll give you multiple interviews concerning all aspects of my life, the untold reasons for countless human killings, and I must be compensated monetarily.

Unfortunately, my life of crime started early with theft in excess of 100 million.

46:44

Hey, Craig, you're going to get an IOU, Yeah.

Don't care, let's move on.

They're.

Not going to fucking give you the platform you piece of shit.

So, he says, my life of crime started early with theft in excess of 100 million.

46:59

Next, I progressed into smuggling cocaine by private plane from South America to the Florida Everglades.

I then accelerated more so into the criminal arena of contract killing by influential organized crime figures I befriended while I was in federal prison.

47:18

Again, I graduated into the big time by opening 4 spy shops that had connections to the sarin gas attacks in Tokyo to the Oklahoma City bombings.

My life history, my reasons for purposefully taking multiple human lives and my reasons for wanting to be compensated are obviously apparent.

47:40

Certainly I will be released the latest 2031 and I will probably be an unparalleled monster.

I am also a paid FBI informant with a code name and it's it's signed Jacobson number 353588 which is his cell number or his that he didn't say Arizona State prison complex in Ayman Where's Ayman EYMAN.

48:07

That's in Arizona, obviously, but let.

Me look it.

Up and he's in the Browning unit at Arizona State prison complex.

So as you can see, this guy is he's he's, he's.

Proud of himself.

Fucking crazy.

He is batshit crazy shit.

48:23

Fucking crazy man.

And I wonder.

Amen, Arizona.

Amen.

Correct.

Amen, Arizona.

He wants prison.

He wants.

To prison.

He wants infamy.

Arizona State Prison Complex so.

Yeah, so he wants to be remembered, even if it's to be a piece of shit like he doesn't.

48:40

It doesn't matter to.

Him yeah, correct.

So at the end of the day, I'm glad that the insanity deal didn't work out for him.

I'm super bummed out about these plea deals for what we all know is a confessed killer and rapist.

48:57

You know I don't.

What else do you?

What else do you need?

Right.

Exactly.

Those are the things that I think frustrate people so much with the justice system right.

In America, you're.

Gonna call it justice.

I don't yeah.

That people would not agree that that's justice.

Exactly right, Exactly.

Unbelievable.

49:13

So fellas, that's another good one.

That's a good one, Victoria.

Thanks, man.

That's.

Good, let's clean up.

Me and Lance kind of came in raw dogging at this one.

We didn't know anything about this one.

We had no previous knowledge that this was all kind of new story desk as well, but.

Very interesting.

Interesting, right?

Yeah, very interesting.

Yeah, absolutely so.

49:29

Putting that together.

All right, fellas, let's clean up.

Bingo.

All right.

I got the dishes this time, huh?

Yes, you.

Do get the probe.

All right, Questions.

Comments.

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