WEBVTT 00:00:03.810 --> 00:00:05.160 Well, G'day everyone. 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:06.059 Welcome again. 00:00:06.099 --> 00:00:07.000 Uh, my name is Shabu. 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:10.480 If you're joining us, this is the Canterbury Gardens Community Church podcast. 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:16.850 And it's one of the things that we're sort of fumbling our way through and we have come to another episode. 00:00:16.899 --> 00:00:23.109 If you're, uh, first time coming to this podcast for whatever reason, we're a church in the outer east of Melbourne. 00:00:23.190 --> 00:00:36.579 Um, and I serve as one of the pastors there and our prayer is to ensure that the gospel of Jesus Christ is not just a one time news, but it's the very engine room that shapes all areas of our lives, including what we're going to be talking about today. 00:00:36.939 --> 00:00:50.920 So over the next little while, we're going to do a little mini series called Everyday Faith, which is to talk with people who call Canterbury home and how they integrate their faith in their everyday life and everyday season of life. 00:00:51.030 --> 00:00:51.299 And so. 00:00:52.729 --> 00:00:58.850 This, well, for us, it's this afternoon, but, uh, who I'm talking to today is, uh, Sam. 00:00:58.869 --> 00:01:01.799 Now, Sam, am I allowed to say your last name or do you want to keep it like. 00:01:01.869 --> 00:01:02.579 No, no, it's okay. 00:01:02.659 --> 00:01:03.060 It's okay. 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:07.370 So, uh, you know, the reason why I asked that question is I don't actually know how to say your last name. 00:01:07.370 --> 00:01:08.694 Ringwalt. 00:01:08.694 --> 00:01:10.019 Ringwalt. 00:01:10.099 --> 00:01:10.439 Okay. 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:12.219 And I know you were asked this already. 00:01:12.230 --> 00:01:13.239 It doesn't have any kind of. 00:01:13.594 --> 00:01:14.685 cultural background? 00:01:15.185 --> 00:01:17.515 No, no German origin on my father's side. 00:01:17.694 --> 00:01:21.885 Um, Scottish on my mother's side, but, uh, no particular long lineage. 00:01:21.905 --> 00:01:23.555 I'm pretty sure my grandpa made it up. 00:01:23.765 --> 00:01:24.144 Okay. 00:01:24.224 --> 00:01:26.915 Um, so I haven't been able to trace it back beyond him anyway. 00:01:26.995 --> 00:01:27.305 Yep. 00:01:27.734 --> 00:01:27.905 Yeah. 00:01:27.915 --> 00:01:29.864 I feel like my parents made my name up too. 00:01:30.094 --> 00:01:32.424 I've asked them and they have no idea what it means. 00:01:32.435 --> 00:01:33.915 So I feel you. 00:01:33.915 --> 00:01:37.704 So, uh, how long have you and your family been attending Canterbury Gardens? 00:01:38.564 --> 00:01:41.665 Uh, so I guess it's about six months now since we first joined. 00:01:41.765 --> 00:01:42.084 Yep. 00:01:42.515 --> 00:01:44.025 Uh, tell us a bit about your family. 00:01:44.025 --> 00:01:44.834 Who are they? 00:01:44.984 --> 00:01:47.355 Uh, if you want to mention names, your kids might not want to. 00:01:47.724 --> 00:01:48.094 That's okay. 00:01:48.144 --> 00:01:53.575 Um, my wife, Brenda, uh, and we've been married 21 years just last week or the week before. 00:01:53.605 --> 00:01:54.034 Oh, cool. 00:01:54.204 --> 00:01:54.855 Did you do anything? 00:01:55.305 --> 00:01:56.825 Uh, not particularly. 00:01:56.855 --> 00:01:58.454 Oh, we had a nice, nice lunch out. 00:01:59.575 --> 00:02:13.354 We, we have some grand plans, uh, for perhaps next year, but we need to find, So we've got three of those, uh, we've got eldest daughter, who's 14 and then two boys, 12 and nine. 00:02:13.594 --> 00:02:13.944 Okay. 00:02:14.175 --> 00:02:14.514 Cool. 00:02:15.004 --> 00:02:20.284 Well, um, it's been a real privilege to get to know you guys, uh, at Canterbury in this short little while. 00:02:20.284 --> 00:02:28.245 And one of the things that really stood out to me very briefly when I first caught up with you guys at a cafe in Park Orchards, was it? 00:02:28.405 --> 00:02:28.965 No, not. 00:02:28.965 --> 00:02:29.125 Warrenwood. 00:02:29.125 --> 00:02:30.034 Warrenwood. 00:02:30.034 --> 00:02:30.495 Thank you. 00:02:32.504 --> 00:02:34.314 Uh, tell us a little bit about your story. 00:02:34.335 --> 00:02:35.185 So where did you grow up? 00:02:35.194 --> 00:02:36.335 Did you grow up in Melbourne? 00:02:36.375 --> 00:02:37.104 Somewhere else? 00:02:37.585 --> 00:02:38.594 No, I grew up in Adelaide. 00:02:38.675 --> 00:02:43.754 So, um, for the first 21, 22 years of my life, I was over there. 00:02:43.884 --> 00:02:44.835 Can tell by your accent. 00:02:45.104 --> 00:02:45.514 That's right. 00:02:45.525 --> 00:02:46.694 I speak the Queens English. 00:02:46.745 --> 00:02:47.615 Queens English, that's right. 00:02:48.305 --> 00:02:49.754 Uh, yeah, so I grew up in Adelaide. 00:02:49.764 --> 00:02:53.365 All my family are there, but moved across to Melbourne to attend. 00:02:53.384 --> 00:03:03.495 I went to a Bible college over here, actually, Bible college, Victoria, um, and met my to be wife, uh, here at a local church, uh, while I was studying and, and so now I'm from Melbourne. 00:03:03.694 --> 00:03:03.895 Okay. 00:03:04.034 --> 00:03:04.465 There you go. 00:03:04.794 --> 00:03:07.134 Uh, did you grow up in a Christian family? 00:03:07.875 --> 00:03:08.125 Yeah. 00:03:08.125 --> 00:03:09.664 So I grew up in a Christian family. 00:03:09.705 --> 00:03:13.155 Um, in fact, I'm sure I was born on a Monday. 00:03:13.205 --> 00:03:16.534 I'm pretty sure I would have been at church probably twice the next Sunday. 00:03:16.534 --> 00:03:17.044 I'm sure. 00:03:17.564 --> 00:03:19.275 Um, so my dad was a pastor. 00:03:19.275 --> 00:03:29.305 And, uh, Um, when I was young, so we had a small Baptist church, um, near West Lakes in Adelaide and, uh, run that for a number of years. 00:03:29.775 --> 00:03:32.974 Um, and then my dad had to retire due to some health complications. 00:03:32.974 --> 00:03:39.335 And so we ended up moving across sort of merging with another church and most of the congregation moved across to there. 00:03:39.724 --> 00:03:39.865 Okay. 00:03:39.865 --> 00:03:44.564 I grew up in a Christian household, um, came to faith personally when I was about four. 00:03:45.289 --> 00:03:57.639 Um, got baptized shortly thereafter, uh, stopping a rowing regatta no less, um, because we used to go down and, and as a church, we'd do our baptisms in the West lakes where they'd have a lot of rowing races and things. 00:03:57.969 --> 00:03:59.990 And we happened to be timed out with a rowing regatta. 00:03:59.990 --> 00:04:06.560 So they sort of sat around in their canoes and kayaks watching this church do their baptismal service on the banks of the lake. 00:04:06.650 --> 00:04:07.240 That's great. 00:04:07.564 --> 00:04:14.745 So yeah, so, uh, and then continued in my faith, fortunately throughout the years, um, yeah, until today. 00:04:14.875 --> 00:04:28.024 Okay, so you, you skipped a little bit forward talking about your arriving at Bible College of Victoria at the time, which is now MST, um, Was that why, like, what was it a bit of a journey before that? 00:04:28.024 --> 00:04:29.345 Were you working before that? 00:04:29.345 --> 00:04:30.254 Were you studying? 00:04:30.685 --> 00:04:32.365 What, what led you to that moment? 00:04:32.944 --> 00:04:39.345 Um, my dad, after he had a full time pastoral ministry, was doing various, um, works. 00:04:39.345 --> 00:04:40.394 It was very handy. 00:04:40.649 --> 00:04:44.850 I mean, he, he was a, he was a fitter and turner by trade, but did everything. 00:04:44.850 --> 00:04:49.569 So he built houses and extensions and worked in schools and handyman roles and so on. 00:04:49.569 --> 00:04:55.060 So I grew up, um, most weekends and evenings doing various jobs with him. 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:55.410 Yeah. 00:04:55.750 --> 00:04:57.860 Um, and then at school. 00:04:58.790 --> 00:05:00.000 Um, I did okay. 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:08.319 And so I went into, uh, I wasn't sure what to do as I was leaving school, but, um, at the time started pursuing computer systems engineering. 00:05:08.490 --> 00:05:08.829 Okay. 00:05:09.110 --> 00:05:10.000 Which is, what does that mean? 00:05:10.300 --> 00:05:11.250 Is that like coding? 00:05:11.259 --> 00:05:13.545 You make the microchips and the, and the boards. 00:05:13.545 --> 00:05:25.394 Um, so I did first year university engineering degree, um, and promptly decided probably midway through that year that I did not actually want to be a professional nerd. 00:05:25.605 --> 00:05:28.894 Um, and so it was time to find something else. 00:05:29.535 --> 00:05:37.615 So I approached my church, so I went to Edwardstown Baptist church in Adelaide, a large Baptist church there. 00:05:38.285 --> 00:05:43.014 And I approached them and said, look, I want to be an intern essentially. 00:05:43.064 --> 00:05:43.314 Okay. 00:05:43.314 --> 00:05:43.855 When I come in. 00:05:44.225 --> 00:05:44.975 Work for you. 00:05:45.634 --> 00:05:48.845 Um, and so we sort of created this internship program. 00:05:48.845 --> 00:05:51.045 I was the first, first one through. 00:05:51.615 --> 00:05:57.375 Um, and so I started doing a little bit of study part-time at one of the bible colleges in Adelaide. 00:05:57.404 --> 00:06:03.810 Mm-hmm Sort of a subject of term or a couple subjects, uh, and then working for my church full-time voluntarily. 00:06:03.810 --> 00:06:09.529 Mm-hmm For the rest of the time, and then doing odd other jobs to pain away that You did a lot of things I imagine. 00:06:09.529 --> 00:06:09.730 Yeah. 00:06:09.730 --> 00:06:10.334 The rest of the time. 00:06:10.394 --> 00:06:10.665 Yep. 00:06:10.725 --> 00:06:11.024 Yep. 00:06:11.055 --> 00:06:13.074 So that was great. 00:06:13.134 --> 00:06:14.485 Um, I got to work in every. 00:06:14.810 --> 00:06:24.490 ministry, so from sort of the pre kinder kids group to the seniors group on a Tuesday morning, whenever it was, teaching them how to play table tennis. 00:06:25.339 --> 00:06:28.100 Was there one that really you loved and others you liked? 00:06:28.139 --> 00:06:29.199 I loved the oldies actually. 00:06:29.209 --> 00:06:29.629 Oh really? 00:06:29.670 --> 00:06:30.769 Yeah, they were great fun. 00:06:32.105 --> 00:06:41.064 Um, but I worked across all of them, so youth staff and we had, um, some exciting programs that we did in some local high schools and some other stuff that I was involved with as well. 00:06:41.084 --> 00:06:46.584 And then we did a, we had a missions component to that internship as well, which I think was really valuable. 00:06:46.605 --> 00:06:54.064 So I went off to Indonesia for a month and helped out some missionaries there by just living, um, in the homes of some of their contacts. 00:06:56.004 --> 00:06:56.935 English teachers. 00:06:56.944 --> 00:07:02.225 So we're helping them practice their English by having an English person living in their house. 00:07:02.225 --> 00:07:02.555 Yeah. 00:07:02.704 --> 00:07:05.774 So I think four of us went across and did that for about a month. 00:07:06.795 --> 00:07:10.235 Um, and then over that course at that time, I was also doing. 00:07:11.964 --> 00:07:17.045 course called Perspectives, um, which is a great missions focused sort of course. 00:07:17.074 --> 00:07:28.185 I'm not sure if it's still operating, but anyway, um, and that sort of really started to hone in my focus on getting involved full time in missions work. 00:07:28.954 --> 00:07:42.475 Um, and I was still trying to find my place, still trying to find where could I use the practical skills that my dad had taught me, you know, as well as my love of working with people and, um, you know, doing other. 00:07:42.884 --> 00:07:43.574 Stuff as well. 00:07:43.574 --> 00:07:50.925 And so I finally landed on, you know, and I thought God was leading towards doing Bible translation. 00:07:51.574 --> 00:07:53.925 Um, but I like to do lots of things. 00:07:53.925 --> 00:07:58.425 So I was gonna, I was gonna do bible translation and be a missionary pilot and fix my own plane. 00:07:58.514 --> 00:07:58.754 Wow. 00:07:58.754 --> 00:08:09.754 That's like, it's like a super, super star, a super guy for, well, I figured I could, I could, I could fly into a remote village, keep my plane operating and you know, translate the Bible for you. 00:08:09.754 --> 00:08:10.084 Wow, man. 00:08:10.175 --> 00:08:10.550 Um, so. 00:08:11.644 --> 00:08:26.264 So I contacted, uh, Bible College Victoria, which is now known as Melbourne School of Theology, as you mentioned, they had a program that they worked with MAF, um, here, training pilots and training engineers, as well as offering Bible College. 00:08:27.064 --> 00:08:31.425 And so I enrolled there, um, thinking, okay, I'll just do a triple course. 00:08:31.475 --> 00:08:34.095 I'll get my pilot's license, my engineering certificates and my. 00:08:34.850 --> 00:08:38.200 And my, um, theology degree, so I can do all of that. 00:08:38.820 --> 00:08:41.639 And they said, great, you, you've been accepted. 00:08:41.730 --> 00:08:42.690 Please pay us. 00:08:42.850 --> 00:08:52.759 I think it was 12, 000 to pay for your first block of flying to get you up to your private pilot's license, which I didn't have, you know, my family certainly didn't have. 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:54.899 And so I said, okay, no worries. 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:59.919 I'll go back to work and I'll, um, save up and I'll save up and then I'll see you when I've got the money. 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:00.230 Yep. 00:09:00.230 --> 00:09:03.970 So, um, set about working, landed in some pretty. 00:09:04.774 --> 00:09:07.605 Interesting, um, jobs. 00:09:07.725 --> 00:09:07.995 Okay. 00:09:08.465 --> 00:09:09.144 What kind of jobs? 00:09:09.294 --> 00:09:09.504 What? 00:09:10.085 --> 00:09:15.325 Uh, I mean, I worked for a temp agency for a while, so I did various IT and computer jobs. 00:09:15.325 --> 00:09:18.774 I'd played around on computers since the 286s came out. 00:09:18.855 --> 00:09:19.115 Okay. 00:09:19.164 --> 00:09:22.615 Um, so I was quite familiar with, with computing systems. 00:09:22.615 --> 00:09:29.044 So I did a lot of temp jobs in government departments and hospitals and various places doing data entry and all sorts of different things. 00:09:29.475 --> 00:09:34.764 Ended up working a temp job for, uh, in the IT department for a small airline. 00:09:35.674 --> 00:09:40.955 Um, and then got, found a job within that airline, quite enjoyed the environment there. 00:09:40.955 --> 00:09:43.335 So I ended up working in operations for that airline. 00:09:43.495 --> 00:09:43.715 Yep. 00:09:44.445 --> 00:09:48.095 They were doing regional passenger flights around Australia. 00:09:48.664 --> 00:09:49.595 So it worked for them. 00:09:50.144 --> 00:09:55.245 And then they had a sister airline, um, which did all of the surveillance flights around Australia. 00:09:55.245 --> 00:09:58.674 So https: otter. 00:09:58.894 --> 00:10:09.429 ai And they were setting up a new National Operations Center in Adelaide to look after the four bases that were spread across the top of Australia. 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:09.870 Yep. 00:10:10.414 --> 00:10:13.235 And so they advertised for this national operations manager role. 00:10:13.434 --> 00:10:18.615 So of course, like every 19 year old, I thought, yeah, I'm infinitely qualified to do that. 00:10:18.945 --> 00:10:19.284 Sure. 00:10:19.315 --> 00:10:24.125 So I, I threw my, uh, threw my name in, um, put in my application. 00:10:24.965 --> 00:10:31.784 And because of what I'd just been doing with the other side of the airline and the new, and we'd brought in some new software that I was across, ended up in that role. 00:10:31.875 --> 00:10:32.304 Oh, wow. 00:10:32.325 --> 00:10:32.705 In that role. 00:10:32.855 --> 00:10:33.304 Wow. 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:40.230 So much the envy of the other operation staff were like, Oh, we really thought about applying for that. 00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:45.389 I'm like, well, did you know that you should, so, yeah. 00:10:45.389 --> 00:10:46.309 So I ended up in that role. 00:10:46.309 --> 00:10:47.240 So that was quite fun. 00:10:47.429 --> 00:10:54.200 Um, So I was overseeing at 16 aircraft and, um, 130 flight crew around Australia. 00:10:54.929 --> 00:11:05.690 Um, so I went up and worked to manage the Darwin base for a little while, and then managed the Cairns base for a little while to relieve the general managers there whilst sort of running this thing nationally. 00:11:06.250 --> 00:11:09.875 But the whole time still looking at this goal of, So I've got a whole list of, um, missions aviation. 00:11:09.875 --> 00:11:12.325 So it's sort of, I thought it was all dovetailing quite nicely. 00:11:12.325 --> 00:11:18.894 And I was working in aviation and I was learning all these stuff about flights, planes and proving and so on. 00:11:20.924 --> 00:11:25.674 Um, and so, but what I also did, I like to be fairly proactive. 00:11:25.674 --> 00:11:28.884 So I started contacting missions aviation agencies. 00:11:28.894 --> 00:11:29.195 Okay. 00:11:29.205 --> 00:11:29.445 So. 00:11:30.475 --> 00:11:40.524 I reached out to MAF Australia, MAF UK, JARS, SIL, I mean, there's, there's probably a dozen different, um, missions, aviation agencies. 00:11:41.264 --> 00:11:49.605 And very consistently, much to my disappointment, they all, they all came back and said, no, we don't have a role that looks like that. 00:11:49.625 --> 00:11:50.485 That doesn't exist. 00:11:50.495 --> 00:11:57.365 If you're there as a pilot, it's so expensive for us to maintain you on the field with your licenses and so on, that you're there as a pilot. 00:11:57.365 --> 00:11:58.585 If you're there as an engineer. 00:11:58.904 --> 00:11:59.875 Then you're an engineer. 00:11:59.934 --> 00:12:00.835 So you're going to be one or the other. 00:12:00.835 --> 00:12:03.264 And if you want to do Bible translation, then go do that. 00:12:03.355 --> 00:12:05.184 Like it's nothing to do with what we're doing. 00:12:05.195 --> 00:12:08.355 We're just, we fly in the Bible translators, but we're not the Bible translators. 00:12:08.995 --> 00:12:09.174 Yep. 00:12:09.544 --> 00:12:19.465 So I started realizing that that needed to be a little bit more refined and started prioritizing what was really important. 00:12:19.465 --> 00:12:19.695 Yep. 00:12:20.075 --> 00:12:21.134 Where, where was God in this? 00:12:21.164 --> 00:12:23.965 Like, were you questioning things at any point or were you just like. 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:28.820 You know, this is a bit of a one step at a time, God just leading you slowly. 00:12:29.070 --> 00:12:29.360 Yeah. 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:41.240 Look, my, um, I always listen quite closely to where God is telling me to go, but I also adopt the mentality that it's easier to turn a moving vehicle than a stationary one. 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:50.059 And so when God gives me a signpost and I start moving and I just every day say, direct me elsewhere if you need to. 00:12:50.299 --> 00:12:51.960 Um, and so this was him starting to. 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:53.730 to direct me elsewhere. 00:12:53.779 --> 00:12:57.990 I think the, I think it took that program. 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:03.440 It took that ambition, I guess, to make me come to Victoria rather than stay in Adelaide. 00:13:03.830 --> 00:13:08.919 Um, because there were some really good Bible colleges I could have gone to there just to do theology or Bible translation. 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:16.789 Um, and so I, I considered that to be a signpost that I should still move away from home and come over here. 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:20.309 Um, but then that started refining what that might look like. 00:13:20.309 --> 00:13:22.924 So I, withdrew from aviation. 00:13:22.924 --> 00:13:26.754 I withdrew from engineering and just stayed on with theology. 00:13:26.835 --> 00:13:29.134 Um, looking still towards Bible translation. 00:13:29.335 --> 00:13:29.524 Yep. 00:13:29.875 --> 00:13:37.695 And, uh, so the price got a bit cheaper, but I managed to save up enough to get myself a car that could drive me reliably back and forward from Adelaide to Melbourne. 00:13:37.725 --> 00:13:38.264 Wow. 00:13:38.485 --> 00:13:41.654 And, uh, and then moved over here, start of 2002. 00:13:41.914 --> 00:13:42.264 Okay. 00:13:42.784 --> 00:13:46.245 And so that, is that meant you left your job that you were doing? 00:13:46.445 --> 00:13:49.205 Were there any friends who were like, why are you leaving this career? 00:13:49.384 --> 00:13:50.455 I think nearly all of them. 00:13:50.485 --> 00:13:50.835 Yeah. 00:13:50.865 --> 00:13:52.085 You're in such a good career. 00:13:52.085 --> 00:13:53.154 You're getting paid really well. 00:13:53.164 --> 00:13:53.394 Yeah. 00:13:53.394 --> 00:13:53.455 Yeah. 00:13:53.455 --> 00:13:54.215 You know, like you're in this. 00:13:54.429 --> 00:13:59.419 It's really a job of, you know, great responsibility, you know, whilst you're still so young. 00:13:59.419 --> 00:13:59.950 Yeah. 00:13:59.950 --> 00:14:01.460 I mean, I did it for a couple of years. 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:01.730 Yeah. 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:05.129 Um, you know, why are you, why are you leaving this thing? 00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:05.299 Yeah. 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.960 Um, but yeah, God was still calling definitely to, to come over. 00:14:10.029 --> 00:14:14.789 So I had a great sense of peace about that and still, still made the move over. 00:14:14.830 --> 00:14:15.090 So. 00:14:15.090 --> 00:14:15.434 Yeah. 00:14:15.764 --> 00:14:18.414 So you come into Bible college at BCV at the time. 00:14:18.414 --> 00:14:20.294 And so that was at Lillydale or was that Edmonton? 00:14:20.294 --> 00:14:20.975 Yeah, Lillydale. 00:14:21.445 --> 00:14:21.514 Lillydale. 00:14:21.514 --> 00:14:23.455 So I was a live on, live on student. 00:14:23.625 --> 00:14:23.995 Okay. 00:14:24.215 --> 00:14:24.845 Live on student. 00:14:24.884 --> 00:14:25.264 Yep. 00:14:25.534 --> 00:14:34.125 Uh, and you're studying theology mainly, the main subjects, um, and, uh, you're finding it in Mougrigarate. 00:14:34.134 --> 00:14:34.945 You enjoying it? 00:14:34.945 --> 00:14:36.615 You, you growing through it? 00:14:37.144 --> 00:14:37.575 Yeah. 00:14:37.575 --> 00:14:37.804 Yeah. 00:14:37.804 --> 00:14:38.254 I loved it. 00:14:38.345 --> 00:14:39.554 Um, I mean, if I back. 00:14:40.059 --> 00:14:49.899 If I backtrack a little, um, the church I was in when I was a teen went through some pretty rough patch where the pastor had sort of. 00:14:51.034 --> 00:15:06.894 Partially walked away from his faith, but still continued to be in the pastoral seat and when challenged, um, you know, erupted and, you know, it was not, not a pleasant situation for, for my family, particularly because my dad was one of the ones that was questioning. 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.419 You know mm-hmm What are you actually doing? 00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:11.340 Are you being a pastor or are you doing something else? 00:15:12.110 --> 00:15:26.269 Um, and so that sort of prompted me to, to leave, like, I mean, basically as soon as I had my, my peas, my license in Australia, we did our provisional license, which I could get at about 16 and a half so I could start driving myself around. 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:26.629 Yep. 00:15:26.929 --> 00:15:29.600 So I bought myself a$400 car and, and Wow. 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:30.289 Freedom. 00:15:30.370 --> 00:15:36.919 Um, an old Kingswood, not the, not the safest car for a pea platter, but nice and solid. 00:15:37.029 --> 00:15:37.230 Yeah. 00:15:37.649 --> 00:15:48.940 Um, so I stepped out really on my own and, and, you know, I was very, I'm very grateful to God that he continued to draw me closer to him during that period. 00:15:49.509 --> 00:15:55.789 Um, cause I saw a lot of my friends, you know, take an alternate pathway, um, away from God, unfortunately. 00:15:56.210 --> 00:15:58.850 And so I stepped out and said, well, I'm going to go and find my own church. 00:15:58.850 --> 00:15:58.889 Yeah. 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:03.929 Um, you know, lay down my own roots here, you know, leave the family behind sort of thing and go out on my own. 00:16:04.110 --> 00:16:05.860 That would have been scary, challenging? 00:16:06.179 --> 00:16:11.690 Oh, I mean, I, I mean, it was, had to be, yeah, I mean, it was, it was what I felt was necessary. 00:16:11.870 --> 00:16:16.240 Um, there was also not a lot of young people my age at the church either. 00:16:16.389 --> 00:16:19.009 And so, you know, I was craving some community as well. 00:16:19.059 --> 00:16:24.740 So that's what ended up ultimately through a couple of steps ended up at Edwards town. 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.195 Um, and a lot of young people came in to the church. 00:16:28.534 --> 00:16:30.575 To that church at that about the same time. 00:16:30.575 --> 00:16:31.174 Okay, cool. 00:16:31.394 --> 00:16:38.865 And it was really a Catalyst I think for many of us for our faith to grow we were meeting, you know, we had a guys 6 a. 00:16:38.865 --> 00:16:48.115 m Prayer meeting like one of my mates houses every week and you know, we're doing various things like that Which was really quite formational in my faith journey. 00:16:48.264 --> 00:16:50.644 Yeah And so that was great. 00:16:50.644 --> 00:16:54.705 So then, then stepping over here, yeah, continue to delve into that. 00:16:54.705 --> 00:17:07.424 And, um, the college, um, did a really good job of even handedly presenting multiple, um, viewpoints on various theological, uh, uh, items. 00:17:07.454 --> 00:17:07.894 Yes. 00:17:08.085 --> 00:17:13.884 And so, which I really enjoyed because it gave me the chance to have the time to dig into it for myself. 00:17:13.884 --> 00:17:14.269 And yeah. 00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:25.220 Um, and study the Bible and, you know, take time out to, to read and reflect and figure out where I stood on various items, which you don't spend much time thinking about day to day. 00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:25.490 No. 00:17:25.490 --> 00:17:35.880 And also being exposed to, there are other views and other good views that are Christ centered and people who hold to those views as well. 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.710 They're not, they're actually brothers and sisters in Christ. 00:17:39.180 --> 00:17:39.549 Yeah. 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:39.900 Yeah. 00:17:39.980 --> 00:17:41.380 And I'd grown up in relatively. 00:17:41.494 --> 00:17:49.055 Um, conservative Christian circles, which had a fairly legalistic outlook on, on any other denomination. 00:17:49.575 --> 00:17:52.255 Um, and so that was, that was great to start. 00:17:52.305 --> 00:17:55.884 I mean, I'd already started that exercise and sort of stepping out of that into a. 00:17:56.500 --> 00:18:13.009 Um, a little bit more open, um, congregation, but then, you know, going into Bible college where I was becoming friends with people from a number of different denominations and backgrounds and family stories and so on, um, was really great and exploring what worship meant in different contexts. 00:18:13.009 --> 00:18:22.035 And, you know, the richness of what that looks like across a variety of different denominations and what we can learn from each other, um, was really, helpful actually. 00:18:22.125 --> 00:18:22.694 That's great. 00:18:23.285 --> 00:18:28.055 And so, um, you said that you met to your wife, Brendan, at Bible college? 00:18:28.375 --> 00:18:28.615 No. 00:18:28.615 --> 00:18:32.394 So Brenda was at the local Baptist church down the road from the Bible college. 00:18:32.394 --> 00:18:33.835 So I met her at the church. 00:18:34.555 --> 00:18:36.605 On the first Sunday that I rolled into there. 00:18:36.724 --> 00:18:37.085 Okay. 00:18:37.204 --> 00:18:44.954 Um, uh, so I, I knew relatively quickly that she was, you know, worth, uh, spending a lot of time on. 00:18:45.025 --> 00:18:45.164 That's good. 00:18:45.214 --> 00:18:47.394 Um, it took her a little bit longer than I did. 00:18:47.515 --> 00:18:47.865 Okay. 00:18:47.894 --> 00:18:48.634 She, she got there. 00:18:49.454 --> 00:18:51.654 She eventually, that's good. 00:18:51.974 --> 00:18:54.714 Um, excuse me. 00:18:55.625 --> 00:19:01.755 So yeah, I started attending there and then I was working part time to continue to pay for. 00:19:02.325 --> 00:19:07.335 Um, college, um, you know, they were, they were deducting money each month from my bank account. 00:19:07.345 --> 00:19:18.595 So, um, I had to keep finding ways to, well, God kept, kept it topped up anyway, but landing me in various roles over here, including a role with an air conditioning company. 00:19:18.755 --> 00:19:19.164 Okay. 00:19:19.224 --> 00:19:25.744 Um, so, so you're thinking about going into Bible translation, you're heading towards that road. 00:19:27.170 --> 00:19:33.619 And like you talked about signposts, was there a signpost at some point that went not Bible translation? 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.910 Or was it a? 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:43.779 Well, probably my first year marks for Greek might've been a pretty good signpost, but I know the Greek lecturer, well he's not there anymore, but yeah, he was a great lecturer. 00:19:43.789 --> 00:19:55.890 It was no, no fault on Greg's part, he was one of my favorite lecturers, but, um, certainly my, uh, time management on reviewing the 20 new words we had to learn every two days or something was not great. 00:19:55.950 --> 00:19:56.180 Yeah. 00:19:56.180 --> 00:19:56.259 Yeah. 00:19:57.460 --> 00:19:58.619 So that might've been a signpost. 00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:02.410 It wasn't one I particularly observed at the end of first year. 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:02.720 Sure. 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.990 So, you know, continued to have a renewed crack at that. 00:20:07.190 --> 00:20:07.440 Yep. 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:09.299 But yeah, never quite conquered the Greek. 00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:10.200 So, um. 00:20:10.450 --> 00:20:12.779 Which is important as you consider Bible translation. 00:20:12.789 --> 00:20:13.039 That's right. 00:20:13.099 --> 00:20:13.769 And that's important. 00:20:13.819 --> 00:20:14.140 Yeah. 00:20:14.204 --> 00:20:20.944 Um, and then, so you started doing part time work, obviously, and studying with this air conditioning company. 00:20:21.255 --> 00:20:21.545 Yep. 00:20:21.615 --> 00:20:28.355 And was there a moment after you graduated or was it just about, you're about to graduate and you're like, this might be the direction that God's. 00:20:29.625 --> 00:20:29.884 Yeah. 00:20:29.884 --> 00:20:32.305 So it was actually fairly early. 00:20:32.305 --> 00:20:41.904 So, um, I dated Brenda for about a year and then, uh, we got engaged and then we got married sort of at the end of my second year over here. 00:20:42.464 --> 00:20:46.545 Um, and, uh, my father in law. 00:20:47.029 --> 00:20:50.799 Um, is quite a renowned inventor in this air conditioning space. 00:20:50.849 --> 00:20:51.230 Okay. 00:20:51.390 --> 00:20:57.400 So, um, he had leveraged one of his contacts to help get me a job. 00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:03.180 Um, but that I think he may have had some ulterior motive in terms of trading me out for the, for the family business. 00:21:03.750 --> 00:21:11.029 Um, yeah, so I was working in air conditioning, uh, it time, it timed at the end of that period. 00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:17.950 So end of my second year, uh, he was just about ready to start launching this new. 00:21:18.769 --> 00:21:23.559 product that he invented, this new compressor, which is like the engine of a big commercial air conditioning system. 00:21:24.230 --> 00:21:30.650 Um, he was about to start launching that though in North America at the time, um, because they'd moved the company across to Canada from Melbourne. 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:41.569 And, and so they, the company had been looking for a while for some suitable employees that could help take this product to market, to have this product on the road. 00:21:41.990 --> 00:21:44.210 So my wife was just finishing her degree. 00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:45.950 She had studied business marketing. 00:21:47.515 --> 00:21:50.244 And, uh, they were looking for this couple. 00:21:50.244 --> 00:21:54.664 And so they said, would you guys come over and would you consider taking on this role? 00:21:55.285 --> 00:21:58.654 And so, yeah, we felt like that was good timing. 00:21:58.904 --> 00:22:01.964 Um, you know, certainly felt like God was in that. 00:22:02.194 --> 00:22:08.115 Um, and so end of second year, um, we got married and a week later we moved overseas. 00:22:08.115 --> 00:22:09.125 We moved to Montreal. 00:22:09.255 --> 00:22:09.875 Oh, wow. 00:22:10.494 --> 00:22:10.934 Okay. 00:22:11.464 --> 00:22:12.144 It was that quick. 00:22:12.335 --> 00:22:12.535 Yeah. 00:22:12.664 --> 00:22:12.835 Yeah. 00:22:12.924 --> 00:22:13.365 Okay. 00:22:13.954 --> 00:22:33.015 Um, and then as you were getting involved in this new career, really, um, was your study of God's word and theology, was that, Oh, okay, that's in the background now, or how is it shaping or was it now all of a sudden this challenge of integrating and what does that look like? 00:22:33.944 --> 00:22:34.115 Yeah. 00:22:34.115 --> 00:22:34.664 It's interesting. 00:22:34.664 --> 00:22:44.454 I mean, God uses his signpost and I, I changed direction, but you know, sometimes it takes my mind a bit longer to catch up to perhaps where he may be now leading. 00:22:44.795 --> 00:22:45.035 Yes. 00:22:45.255 --> 00:22:48.365 Um, and so I still continued my studies. 00:22:48.454 --> 00:22:51.674 I mean, this was 2003, four. 00:22:51.724 --> 00:22:54.434 So distance education was not really a thing yet. 00:22:54.964 --> 00:23:01.605 Um, in fact, 2004 was the first year that I rolled that BCV rolled out a distance learning program. 00:23:01.644 --> 00:23:01.865 Yep. 00:23:01.954 --> 00:23:03.045 Along with some other. 00:23:03.589 --> 00:23:05.059 theological schools in Australia. 00:23:05.890 --> 00:23:11.859 And so I was part of the guinea pig cohort of, you know, here's a, here's a subject that you can choose from. 00:23:11.859 --> 00:23:21.039 And because I had done two years on campus and they rolled out the subjects from year one first, you know, there was always very few choices that I had. 00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:23.769 It's like, here's, here's our six subjects that we've released. 00:23:23.910 --> 00:23:24.690 I'm like, well, I've done five. 00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.740 So I guess I'm doing Ephesians this semester and then I'm going to do whatever. 00:23:29.259 --> 00:23:32.369 Um, and so I continued to study, um, the whole time. 00:23:32.924 --> 00:23:51.914 Uh, but was working and sort of learning this new world of business and market development and product launches and air conditioning, you know, and that was a real jumping in the deep end, I guess, for both my wife and I, because we, we moved over there, as I said, you know, newly married. 00:23:52.380 --> 00:23:57.519 And they said, right, we want you to build a mobile showroom and go drag this around North America. 00:23:57.829 --> 00:23:58.359 Wow. 00:23:58.569 --> 00:24:03.210 And so we spent the first couple of months in Montreal, literally building a showroom. 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:14.069 And then we spent nearly two years driving from city to city, uh, you know, seeing about 86, 000 people to tell them about this amazing compressor technology. 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:17.720 So answering that many people's questions soon. 00:24:18.075 --> 00:24:19.394 Help me learn a lot of answers. 00:24:19.605 --> 00:24:20.144 Okay. 00:24:20.605 --> 00:24:20.954 Okay. 00:24:20.964 --> 00:24:26.615 And wonderful, I guess, one way to get to know your newly married wife and together. 00:24:26.724 --> 00:24:26.974 Yeah. 00:24:26.974 --> 00:24:28.535 I forget it was probably worth about 10 years. 00:24:28.684 --> 00:24:38.575 I reckon that first year we have very different styles of even how to make a PowerPoint presentation, you know, and so we had to work through all of those communication issues and whatever. 00:24:38.825 --> 00:24:39.045 Yep. 00:24:39.045 --> 00:24:45.204 Um, whilst living 24 seven in a caravan, big caravan, um, going from city to city. 00:24:45.224 --> 00:24:45.684 And we're about. 00:24:46.384 --> 00:24:48.115 300 nights a year on the road. 00:24:48.234 --> 00:24:50.704 Um, and then we'd go back and forth to Canada. 00:24:51.224 --> 00:24:57.305 We had visas in Canada, so we'd have to go into the U S for three months and then get out for a week or two and then go, go and do it again. 00:24:58.625 --> 00:25:13.025 Um, was there anything that sticks out to you, whether if it's a story or anything where God started connecting a bit more of the dots for you in regards to your faith and working, um, or another signpost as you and Brenda. 00:25:17.125 --> 00:25:17.954 Look, we continued. 00:25:17.994 --> 00:25:18.305 I. 00:25:19.414 --> 00:25:21.454 I mean, I still thought that this was just a delay. 00:25:21.575 --> 00:25:22.015 Okay. 00:25:22.285 --> 00:25:22.595 Yeah. 00:25:22.595 --> 00:25:25.164 So I thought, this is great. 00:25:25.174 --> 00:25:29.644 You know, I'll, I'll do this and I'll do, you know, my best, you know, God has put us here. 00:25:29.644 --> 00:25:30.954 So let's work really hard at it. 00:25:30.964 --> 00:25:35.454 So to supplement some of the lack of subjects that were coming through. 00:25:35.724 --> 00:25:39.384 Um, I also started picking up some business subjects as well. 00:25:40.154 --> 00:25:49.674 Um, And we, so we ended up in North America for about two and a half years, and then the company was moving from Canada to Florida. 00:25:50.234 --> 00:25:54.164 And so we decided that was good timing for us to perhaps return to Australia. 00:25:54.755 --> 00:25:58.464 I mean, we were involved in local church ministry and so on there. 00:25:59.055 --> 00:26:02.125 Um, but we felt, you know, it's time to go back to Australia. 00:26:02.125 --> 00:26:15.579 So we returned to Australia to join, you One of the customers of that business, an early customer of that compressor business, um, and joined them relatively early as I was sort of just starting out and starting to take that product to market. 00:26:16.259 --> 00:26:20.410 And so I was able to jump in and use that same skillset and roll that out. 00:26:20.410 --> 00:26:30.190 And so, um, just continued to, I mean, God continued to open those doors and continue to prompt us, um, to move, to go various places. 00:26:30.259 --> 00:26:33.730 Um, you know, he was, he was relatively clear that we should not go to Florida. 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:34.650 That was time to go home. 00:26:34.650 --> 00:26:35.734 So we went home. 00:26:36.704 --> 00:26:44.285 Um, and fairly quickly within that role, you know, it became apparent that we really needed to expand into Asia. 00:26:44.785 --> 00:26:52.164 Um, and to do that, we really needed to have someone on the ground because I was spending far too much time in planes. 00:26:52.785 --> 00:26:59.914 And so, uh, we, we sort of said, well, we'll go and start a new Asian headquarters for the company. 00:27:00.065 --> 00:27:08.795 Um, and so my wife and I went and looked around Asia and then settled on Singapore and, um, ended up moving up to Singapore to Establish an office there. 00:27:09.454 --> 00:27:17.214 Meanwhile, I'd sort of run out of all the distant subjects cause I still had not really ramped up the, is this doing your masters or bachelor's? 00:27:17.214 --> 00:27:18.505 This is just bachelor's still. 00:27:18.934 --> 00:27:26.505 Um, so that sort of run out of subjects, but I'd meanwhile I'd completed, you know, a fair amount of business subjects. 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.720 So I said, well, why don't we, can I integrate these somehow? 00:27:31.470 --> 00:27:33.740 And so they, they allow me to do that. 00:27:33.740 --> 00:27:38.769 And so I ended up doing a paper on applying biblical ethics to international business. 00:27:38.789 --> 00:27:39.250 Wow. 00:27:39.390 --> 00:27:42.369 Um, because I was in Singapore at the time and doing whatever. 00:27:42.420 --> 00:27:47.974 So that sort of became an integrating paper that allowed me to finally get a, certificate that's straddling around in a drawer somewhere. 00:27:49.444 --> 00:27:52.144 You don't have it on a frame somewhere. 00:27:52.204 --> 00:27:52.525 I know. 00:27:52.535 --> 00:27:59.714 It's always, I think we were always moving as we, as, as both my wife and I both got our various tertiary qualifications. 00:27:59.724 --> 00:28:01.184 So I don't think they've ever been framed. 00:28:01.404 --> 00:28:01.875 Sure. 00:28:01.904 --> 00:28:02.805 Be rolled up somewhere. 00:28:03.005 --> 00:28:03.234 Yeah. 00:28:03.674 --> 00:28:17.619 And your experience in Singapore, um, when you chatted with me a while back, you talked about obviously being involved in the local church there, but also seeing this need for saving some of the missions and missionaries. 00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:19.809 Um, talk to me about that. 00:28:19.809 --> 00:28:25.299 What drove that in your heart, particularly as you minister to, I guess, gospel workers? 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:26.259 Yeah. 00:28:26.259 --> 00:28:32.009 So we still, I mean, still had this enduring love and desire to be involved with missions. 00:28:32.009 --> 00:28:35.569 And so that had been expressed in a number of ways. 00:28:35.569 --> 00:28:41.240 We'd led some, um, short term missions trips for our churches that we'd attended over the years. 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.730 And since we had, um, been involved with various things, I had done stuff with. 00:28:46.494 --> 00:28:49.444 pioneers and some of the other missions agencies in Australia. 00:28:49.785 --> 00:29:02.005 Um, we had friends that had gone out as full time missionaries to Kazakhstan and India and Indonesia, um, uh, had other friends that became sort of the head of missions agencies in Australia and so on. 00:29:02.005 --> 00:29:02.660 So we were quite. 00:29:04.130 --> 00:29:05.299 We're quite connected. 00:29:05.529 --> 00:29:13.750 Um, and what we'd seen fairly consistently, even amongst some of our own friends who'd gone out is they hit the mission field worn out. 00:29:14.369 --> 00:29:18.829 So they were so busy raising the required funds to kickstart their ministry and so on. 00:29:19.410 --> 00:29:29.410 Um, deputizing till the, till the day they got on the plane, basically they get on a plane, they'd step off at the other end and now we're in the ministry, you know, and there was no breathing space. 00:29:29.509 --> 00:29:29.769 And so. 00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:39.750 We were seeing, and I'd been studying part of this as well, um, looking at the declining length of time that, that full time missionaries spend in the field. 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:48.539 Um, and so we had this growing heart and concern for like, how do we, how do we speak into that space? 00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:54.640 How do we help these missionaries have a more sustained, you know, ministry? 00:29:54.849 --> 00:29:58.089 Um, So how do we re energize them before they land? 00:29:58.099 --> 00:30:14.410 And we had this really fascinating conversation with this beautiful lady of God called Grace Dodge, um, who was, um, who never got married, who was a, who was a female missionary in Bangladesh for 47 years, um, who was attending our church here in Melbourne. 00:30:15.220 --> 00:30:20.349 And we had this conversation once we were at a prayer meeting at her house after church one Sunday. 00:30:21.339 --> 00:30:23.710 And she's like, Oh, I never, I was never worn out. 00:30:23.849 --> 00:30:26.309 She's like, you know, I would do all this work. 00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:27.410 I'd be really tired. 00:30:27.869 --> 00:30:33.680 I'd get on a ship for five weeks and then I'd get off at the other end and I'd be, I'd have so much energy. 00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:42.119 And so she had this, you know, mandatory buffer of having to take a ship from, from Melbourne to Bangladesh. 00:30:42.630 --> 00:30:47.809 Um, that she always had the energy, you know, like that, that sort of rejuvenated her and refreshed her. 00:30:48.190 --> 00:30:55.589 And so as we moved into Singapore, which is a, a flight hub for this region. 00:30:55.630 --> 00:31:01.700 I mean, if you're traveling anywhere throughout any of these Southeast Asian countries, you end up coming through Singapore, inevitably. 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:09.410 Um, it's also a location where many missionaries have to go to get their visas or to do renewals or get higher levels of medical care. 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:13.059 We said, well, we're already here, you know, we've got a house. 00:31:13.230 --> 00:31:14.990 Um, why don't we put it to good use? 00:31:14.990 --> 00:31:16.250 And so we reached out to. 00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.140 A couple of different missions agencies and said, look, we're here. 00:31:19.660 --> 00:31:24.799 If you've got missionaries coming through town, um, we'll just make our place available to them. 00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:28.029 They can just move in and stay for a week or a month or whatever. 00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:29.859 Um, get recharged. 00:31:29.869 --> 00:31:36.595 No, no small groups to meet with, no ministry commitments, just spend time with their family and then, and then fly on. 00:31:36.744 --> 00:31:56.587 Um, and so over the 10 years, we're in Singapore and we ended up with, with people living in a house every, every month, um, for 10 years, which was great to hear so many stories and different people doing work all over the world and seeing families come through and supporting them through difficult medical things and other, other things that brought them through Singapore. 00:31:56.587 --> 00:31:59.575 Um, Yeah, it was quite, quite, that'd be amazing. 00:32:00.005 --> 00:32:03.375 And no kids at that point or stage? 00:32:03.474 --> 00:32:06.994 Uh, no, we moved to Singapore pregnant with our first. 00:32:07.484 --> 00:32:09.625 Um, so yeah, we were very quickly. 00:32:09.625 --> 00:32:11.075 We had a child once we were in Singapore. 00:32:11.545 --> 00:32:19.244 Do they, as they obviously are growing up a bit more now, probably in Australia, I'd imagine, were there any memories that they have or they've talked about? 00:32:19.815 --> 00:32:20.125 Oh yeah. 00:32:20.125 --> 00:32:21.825 My, my eldest one's in particular. 00:32:21.825 --> 00:32:21.984 So. 00:32:22.664 --> 00:32:27.835 Um, still feel quite strongly connected to Singapore, um, and to some of the people that came through. 00:32:28.634 --> 00:32:37.954 Um, and there's some of those missionaries that we continue to support to this day and pray for every, every day as a family, um, that, uh, that came through the doors at one point or another. 00:32:38.615 --> 00:32:47.744 Um, but it was in that time where probably for me, God finally started breaking down for me, that divide between. 00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.029 This artificial divide, I would say between the sacred and the secular. 00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:54.890 So this, explain what that is. 00:32:54.890 --> 00:32:55.119 Yeah. 00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:03.319 So this concept that, you know, there's full time ministry people like yourself, should be, um, who are getting paid to be in ministry. 00:33:03.829 --> 00:33:10.170 Um, and then there's everyone else, you know, and everyone else is expected to do their everyday things. 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:11.339 And then. 00:33:11.829 --> 00:33:13.460 Get involved with ministry where they can. 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:19.579 So there's an artificial pressure if you like, that to do ministry, that means you have to be a Sunday school teacher. 00:33:19.579 --> 00:33:21.140 You have to help out at youth. 00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:25.960 You have to sing at church on a Sunday or shake people's hands or something. 00:33:26.490 --> 00:33:34.950 And if you're not, then you're really You know, you're not doing enough if you're just sitting in church, you know, consuming and you're not giving back. 00:33:35.829 --> 00:33:44.700 And I mean, there's certainly some truism in terms of the need to invest in the community that you're in and make sure that it's a bi directional flow of service. 00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:56.569 But the concept that ministry can only exist within the confines of a church property or within a missions field, um, I think that for me was where that finally started breaking down. 00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:57.609 And that was. 00:33:58.085 --> 00:34:03.434 evidenced, I think partially as we started bringing on our first employees in Singapore. 00:34:04.984 --> 00:34:07.484 And we really were committing each of them to God in prayer. 00:34:07.595 --> 00:34:19.125 You know, even the first, the very first employee I had who stayed with us, um, the whole time we were there, uh, you know, we were really praying that God would bring him into a personal relationship with him. 00:34:19.644 --> 00:34:38.539 Um, and that happened a month before we left Singapore, you know, it was like this bookends of, you know, Um, you know, we, we saw God's hand at work through what we were doing in the workplace and in the relationships we're able to build there, um, in addition to how we were able to serve in the church and, and with these missions agencies and with the other things that we got involved with. 00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:51.090 And so with that sort of, I guess you said that moment or that journey, and then coming back into Australia, how has that continued to shape who you are? 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:59.585 Um, you know, you know, what are the challenges for you and your role in the secular and the sacred? 00:34:59.585 --> 00:35:03.094 Like, how do you keep on ensuring it's integrated in your mind and heart? 00:35:03.644 --> 00:35:18.514 Look, I think it, it gave a degree of, um, freedom from guilt, I guess, in a way, you know, like sometimes, especially when we were moving countries or, you know, settling into a new church because we just moved. 00:35:19.059 --> 00:35:30.869 Um, you know, it takes time to get plugged in and connected and, and going, um, and so the pressure to immediately, you know, have to do everything, um, which is what my wife and I had always done. 00:35:31.190 --> 00:35:37.380 Um, some of that pressure was removed and it changes your perspective significantly on what you're doing day to day. 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:46.949 So if you view your day to day role, whether you're an electrician, primary teacher, you know, toilet cleaner, you know, gym sweeper, whatever the role is. 00:35:47.434 --> 00:35:54.764 if that is your ministry, you know, and you go into it with that lens, it dramatically changes your outlook. 00:35:54.775 --> 00:35:56.905 It changes the nature of the conversations. 00:35:56.914 --> 00:36:00.824 It changes how you invest your time in those conversations that you have. 00:36:00.844 --> 00:36:07.164 You're not simply passing the nine to five to put money in the bank to pay your tithe on Sunday. 00:36:07.405 --> 00:36:09.434 Um, you know, that is where God has you. 00:36:09.574 --> 00:36:12.664 And that, and, and the reality is that's where we are most of the time. 00:36:12.664 --> 00:36:16.034 And so, I guess there's a mindset. 00:36:16.485 --> 00:36:32.375 mindset shift that allows you to view church more as like a, for me, more like a recharge point, you know, plug in, get energized again, and then go out and really do the service each, each, each day where God has me. 00:36:33.074 --> 00:36:41.914 Is there, is there, um, certain principles or biblical passages or things that like, if someone's listening to this and they themselves are trying to figure that out. 00:36:42.045 --> 00:36:45.344 So I think for example, some of the people in our church. 00:36:45.869 --> 00:36:51.409 Uh, who may be running a business, uh, those who are thinking of going into uni studying. 00:36:52.320 --> 00:37:09.010 I think sometimes the mindset still can be, uh, and that could be potentially of how we disciple people in our church and that, like you said, the secular sacred, you know, you're not really doing God's work to your, um, you know, in the youth ministry or, you know, something like that. 00:37:09.019 --> 00:37:09.929 Like, yeah. 00:37:10.150 --> 00:37:10.349 Yeah. 00:37:10.349 --> 00:37:12.119 What are the things that shape you? 00:37:12.269 --> 00:37:14.159 I mean, I think if you, if you can. 00:37:15.635 --> 00:37:19.105 Lift those lenses that are in front of so many of our eyes. 00:37:19.324 --> 00:37:27.664 And really it's a bit of a thing that I think has become more dominant in the church over the last 100, 150 years, I would guess. 00:37:28.264 --> 00:37:39.699 Um, I think if you look at the examples in the Bible, whether it's Paul or anyone, I mean, a lot of them were doing it within the marketplace, within their day to day, within their, within their roles. 00:37:39.699 --> 00:37:48.210 Yes, some were commissioned and going out and doing extra stuff, but most of the examples you see, I mean, you don't see that the jailer immediately became not a jailer. 00:37:48.219 --> 00:37:51.099 You don't see the centurion, you know, throwing away his commission. 00:37:51.619 --> 00:38:01.730 Um, you see people coming to faith, you know, within the roles that they are in and presumably exerting, you know, significant influence on those environments that they were already in. 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:04.530 And so I think God doesn't always call you out of. 00:38:05.655 --> 00:38:11.525 what you've been placed in, you know, the skills that were given, it says God stitches us together while we're still in a mother's womb. 00:38:11.525 --> 00:38:20.125 You know, he, he gives us our, the capabilities to use our hands or our minds or our bodies to do, um, the work we're good at. 00:38:20.215 --> 00:38:26.465 And it gives us passions and interests and so on, um, which end up steering us into different career trajectories and other things. 00:38:26.994 --> 00:38:37.349 But those are from God, you know, and I think if we start to divorce, well, these are not my spiritual gifts, you know, I'm a really good plumber, Um, but you know, I'm an okay Sunday school teacher. 00:38:37.449 --> 00:38:45.480 Well, you know, you can be a really good plumber for God, you know, what are those conversations with the homeowner that you're having, you know, how do you carry yourself? 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:48.190 How do you, how do you deal with your suppliers? 00:38:48.320 --> 00:39:01.409 You know, how do you, what emotions are on your face when things go wrong, you know, when the pipe bursts, when things break, um, when, when you're having a bad day, you know, what does that witness and how can we use our words? 00:39:01.460 --> 00:39:03.610 You know, like, I think it's not just about. 00:39:03.969 --> 00:39:05.219 How we live our lives. 00:39:05.230 --> 00:39:06.250 It's far more than that. 00:39:06.409 --> 00:39:10.039 It says the Bible is the word of God is sharper than a two edged sword. 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:12.710 So you have to open the word of God. 00:39:12.710 --> 00:39:15.380 I mean, you have to speak truth and you have to be willing. 00:39:16.130 --> 00:39:30.539 And I think in transitioning into that, my whole life is ministry mindset, if you like, or work as ministry mindset, then hopefully people can start removing some of those self filters. 00:39:30.860 --> 00:39:35.670 You know, and one of the most common filters is what did you, what did you get up to on the weekend? 00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:40.210 You know, and people say, Oh, I went to the footy and I watched TV and I did some gardening. 00:39:40.210 --> 00:39:41.019 What did you do? 00:39:41.449 --> 00:39:42.559 Oh yeah, about the same. 00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:48.940 I did gardening, you know, no mention that I was at church and I did this and I did that, you know, and, and that self filtering is a real. 00:39:50.094 --> 00:39:51.215 It's super damaging. 00:39:51.315 --> 00:39:54.164 You know, like you don't know what that person needs to hear. 00:39:54.164 --> 00:39:57.565 You don't know whether they need to know that you're someone of faith. 00:39:57.574 --> 00:40:23.190 You don't need, you don't know if they need to hear that someone has confidence in that, and that's something that they want to explore, or even just planting that seed so they know if they're a need in the future, or actually, you know, this guy I spoke to, you know, he's, he's got faith, like, let's go on, let's go and talk to him about this question that I might have, you know, and, and if we can, At the very least, at the very minimum, if people hearing this can stop self editing, that would be amazing. 00:40:23.619 --> 00:40:24.530 That's super helpful. 00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:30.920 Is there, is there moments where being a person of faith in the marketplace has cost you? 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:37.380 Um, Or maybe that's not the right question to ask. 00:40:37.630 --> 00:40:43.130 No, look, I certainly was told it would, you know, by business people and whatever. 00:40:43.179 --> 00:40:44.340 I mean, we were growing. 00:40:47.235 --> 00:41:02.525 Um, and there are some prevailing business trends, particularly in countries like China and Vietnam, you know, that, that there's almost an expectation about, um, you participating in drinking and other things. 00:41:02.574 --> 00:41:04.795 And you know, there's a lot of. 00:41:05.369 --> 00:41:11.760 advice from the, from the experts, um, who'd built businesses in Asia that, you know, you just have to do it. 00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:13.659 You know, you can't not do it. 00:41:14.329 --> 00:41:17.440 And so I made a decision quite early on. 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:30.650 In fact, um, even before I got married, we, we sort of decided that we would choose to not drink, you know, because it might help someone one day, you know, we didn't want to be a stumbling block. 00:41:30.650 --> 00:41:31.050 Yep. 00:41:31.525 --> 00:41:40.625 if someone else needed to be sitting at a table with someone else who would not drink so that they could not drink, you know, because they might have an issue with it or whatever, then we would be those people. 00:41:41.164 --> 00:41:44.925 Um, which has saved us both a lot of money and, and a lot of drama. 00:41:45.525 --> 00:42:02.289 Um, but as we moved into China, for example, and, you know, every business was concluded with a huge dinner and, you know, and alcohol flows incredibly freely, I mean, the amount of pressure on me to then just comply was enormous. 00:42:02.469 --> 00:42:16.409 Um, you know, and the taunts of, uh, you're just a, you know, goody guy, or, you know, you've got, you've got some faith or whatever, you know, um, or you're not going to close this deal or how can people trust you if you don't, you know, um, do this with them. 00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:18.699 Um, we saw the reverse of that. 00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:26.260 So we saw, um, that my continued integrity in maintaining that position the whole time I was there. 00:42:26.699 --> 00:42:27.630 Over many years. 00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:34.510 It took them probably about two or three years before I'd give up trying, you know, but eventually a few years in, they'd be like, ah, just get that guy a Coca Cola. 00:42:34.750 --> 00:42:36.340 You know, he's not gonna, he's not gonna have anything. 00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:43.139 Um, and I think that that ended up helping me like grow the business. 00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:45.159 I mean, God's hand was definitely in it. 00:42:45.289 --> 00:42:45.530 Yeah. 00:42:45.639 --> 00:43:02.335 Um, but I think maintaining your integrity, um, is hugely instrumental to, to, success, um, whatever that might look like, you know, and I think it's important that we remember that success is not always, doesn't always have to be financial. 00:43:02.414 --> 00:43:04.335 You know, it could just be the lives impacted around us. 00:43:04.525 --> 00:43:06.065 That's a good, you should say that again. 00:43:06.364 --> 00:43:08.135 That's, that's like a soundbite right there. 00:43:10.005 --> 00:43:19.635 Uh, so I think that one of the key things you mentioned is integrity and you know, it's when it's shaped by the gospel, shaped by who Jesus is and what he's done. 00:43:20.269 --> 00:43:32.030 Um, and those decisions that you're making based on your convictions and so on, and others might not, but the point is the integrity, uh, that you represent Christ well, both in word and deed. 00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:34.519 Um, yeah, that's super helpful. 00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:41.510 Um, uh, Sam, do you have any, uh, other advice for people as you know, I can keep going here, but you know, No, no. 00:43:41.510 --> 00:43:54.760 I think, I think we've probably taken people's ear for long enough, but look, I think the main thing is to, um, really reconsider where God has you now. 00:43:55.019 --> 00:43:57.090 And, you know, look at what that was. 00:43:57.210 --> 00:44:00.019 I mean, I continued to think that I was going to be this missionary. 00:44:00.019 --> 00:44:06.329 I mean, for probably 10 years after studying here, I kept asking God, God, I said yes to the grass hut. 00:44:06.739 --> 00:44:11.380 Why am I, why am I sitting in this really lovely apartment in Singapore, this nice house in Singapore? 00:44:11.909 --> 00:44:13.639 Um, you know, I was willing. 00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:17.409 I said, yes, I was like Samuel Nabawi, you know, like here I am. 00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:20.250 Um, and. 00:44:21.849 --> 00:44:28.099 It really took time, probably too long, I think, for me to really realize that God was using everything that he'd equipped me with. 00:44:28.130 --> 00:44:32.260 You know, I was able to Be involved with my church there. 00:44:32.260 --> 00:44:33.559 We were working with young adults. 00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:35.269 We were working with missions group. 00:44:35.269 --> 00:44:37.210 We were enabling Bible translation. 00:44:37.369 --> 00:44:42.329 Um, in fact, throughout church, we saw five different Bible translations, um, commissioned. 00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:54.855 Um, and so, Um, you know, God had this real amplifying impact on taking the various skills he'd equipped me with across my life, um, and using it all. 00:44:55.085 --> 00:45:03.545 Um, and I could never have imagined that that would take me to where I sit today, which is running another startup, you know, developing new air conditioning technologies. 00:45:03.574 --> 00:45:36.414 But again, God has got his hand in that, you know, and we have had this, It's an enormous privilege now, having made this mindset shift probably a decade ago now of being able to see God in all of those details and seeing his faithfulness day after day, month after month, week after week, um, way around, and, uh, and seeing, and then living this life with gratitude, you know, and I think as long as we continue to reflect on what God has done for us. 00:45:37.030 --> 00:45:43.699 every day, um, then that's the best way to acknowledge his sovereignty and to allow him to really rule daily in your life. 00:45:44.110 --> 00:45:44.440 That's good. 00:45:45.449 --> 00:45:46.130 Thanks for that. 00:45:46.170 --> 00:45:48.699 Um, would you like to finish off by praying for us? 00:45:48.710 --> 00:45:49.550 Yeah, I'm more than happy to. 00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:50.059 That'd be great. 00:45:50.230 --> 00:45:50.380 Yeah. 00:45:50.429 --> 00:45:50.820 Thanks. 00:45:52.849 --> 00:45:57.699 Lord, we thank you for how you weave your story into each one of our lives. 00:45:58.019 --> 00:46:11.934 Um, Lord, thank you for the way that you guided, um, my wife and I, and Lord, thank you for those that you do call into, um, full time ministry like Shabu and the other pastors on staff here at Canterbury Gardens. 00:46:12.525 --> 00:46:17.934 Uh, but Lord, we pray that everyone would be able to re evaluate, uh, where you have them afresh. 00:46:18.085 --> 00:46:54.385 Lord, that they would look with fresh eyes on the ministry that you've called them into, whether that's nursing, school teaching, cleaning, um, Electrical work, whatever it might be Lord, uh, Lord, I pray that they would be able to see that as ministry and that as their mission field and Lord, that they would have boldness to speak your name, um, into those environments every day, um, Lord give us boldness to stand strongly in faith, Lord, give us confidence to proudly proclaim our faith and our allegiance to you as the Lord. 00:46:54.385 --> 00:46:54.840 Amen. 00:46:55.179 --> 00:47:11.090 And Lord, help us to continue to delve deeply into your word and spend time in prayer to, to, to hear from you, um, so that we can, um, see the opportunities that you want us to pursue and we can follow your call wherever that may take us. 00:47:11.489 --> 00:47:15.820 So Lord, I pray for this, um, community here, uh, that you would just keep them focused on you. 00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:18.590 Um, and Lord, we thank you. 00:47:18.989 --> 00:47:19.469 Jesus name. 00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:19.900 Amen. 00:47:20.429 --> 00:47:20.909 Amen. 00:47:21.170 --> 00:47:21.639 Amen. 00:47:22.170 --> 00:47:27.380 Well, friends, uh, that's it for us and, uh, we'll probably see you, uh, Luguling next year. 00:47:27.429 --> 00:47:28.170 Well, I won't see you. 00:47:28.190 --> 00:47:29.320 Probably you'll hear me anyway. 00:47:29.329 --> 00:47:30.889 I'll catch up with you guys later. 00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:31.480 Thanks, Sam. 00:47:31.809 --> 00:47:32.150 Thanks.