Dr. Daniel Brinchman - Optometric Associates of Texas

In this episode, JC sits down with Dr. Daniel Brinchman, owner of Optometric Associates of Texas, for an in-depth discussion on the balance between leadership and management in business ownership. Dr. Brinchman shares the importance of valuing the groundwork laid by previous owners and how staying humble is essential in navigating a successful acquisition. Together, they also debunk the myth of passive income in business ownership, offering insights into the hands-on dedication it truly requires. If you're ready to learn the realities of operating a business, this conversation is for you.

Subscribe to our Newsletter 🗞️

Follow BTS on our Youtube 🎥

Follow Mainshares on LinkedIn 🔗

https://mainshares.com/ 💻

Transcript

All right, team. Welcome to the American Operator podcast. Another episode in route here with doctor Daniel Brinkman. I'm going to get this ratman off to Metric Associates of Texas. Got it? Yeah, we got it. And I dig it. And, you know, I know if you're watching right now, you'd probably look at Daniel and go like, this guy looks like the coolest doc ever, man.

00:00:19:13 - 00:00:22:09
Speaker 2
He's got a shirt on, a goat hat.

00:00:22:09 - 00:00:30:22
Speaker 1
And he looks like it just came from a Chris Stapleton cancer, which you kind of just did. But thank you for being here. Making a pit stop to our HQ here while you're stopped by the ACL.

00:00:30:23 - 00:00:32:22
Speaker 3
Oh, I'm happy too. I'm happy too.

00:00:33:00 - 00:00:57:17
Speaker 1
Well, Daniel's a in addition to, I think, just being an absolute, practitioner of the craft, all things business doctoring and then also, just making those two worlds come together, an old friend here. And it's been something that, offline, we often have our own Ted Lasso isms about leadership and culture and stuff. So we're looking forward to getting into that stuff here later on, especially as it applies to small business.

00:00:57:17 - 00:01:06:18
Speaker 1
But I think might be a good place to kick off. Tell folks what that mouthful name that I just did like. What is that? Where are you base? What do you do? All the things.

00:01:06:18 - 00:01:28:16
Speaker 3
So the business is named, Optometric Associates of Texas. That's the legal name, but we go by Master I associates. It's a little bit more accessible to the market, so to speak. We, I own and operate, a group of eight offices. And underneath that flag, optometry eye care. And we're in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex.

00:01:28:18 - 00:01:51:16
Speaker 3
The business itself has been in operation for, I want to say we're crossing over, like, 30, 33, 30 to somewhere in that range year. But operations in Dallas have been going for about five years, and I've been a big part of of pushing the business up into Dallas and trying to develop that market, different consumer, just sort of pioneering that business in that direction.

00:01:51:21 - 00:01:55:13
Speaker 1
Where are the other locations? If so, you get some of them in Dallas and the rest of them.

00:01:55:17 - 00:02:14:21
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, well, originally the business had 14 locations. There were seven in Austin and seven in Dallas. Yeah. And then three years ago, the business split into two cities. So I purchased the Dallas locations, and then another operator came in and purchased the Austin locations. Yeah, we're still pretty similar. We're like, you know, brothers. Yeah. At this point.

00:02:14:23 - 00:02:32:03
Speaker 1
I mean, it was that, was that always the goal? Like, did you always think, hey, man, I'm going to be I'm living through life here. I'm going to be a doc. I'm going to learn how to do this stuff. I'm going to go build an empire. Like, was that the whole thing, or was that a little bit more fortune and stuff along the way that got you informed about that life?

00:02:32:05 - 00:02:52:00
Speaker 3
I don't know, that's a that's a good question. I think there were foundational like clues that would kind of lead to that. There was never, you know, like this, this is going to happen. Like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to tackle it. Of course, as I got closer and closer to it happening, like you have to pump yourself up to that level.

00:02:52:00 - 00:02:59:07
Speaker 3
But yeah, you know, it's not like a, you know, senior in high school meeting. People say, well, I know this is what I'm going to do. Yeah. You know, not not not to that level.

00:02:59:09 - 00:03:18:05
Speaker 1
But it's fast. I mean, the reason I think I always generally speaking, I find folks that are in your shoes, regardless if it's a one location or an eight location place. Never say it happened by accident, but all of them also said that it wasn't some master plan from the beginning that they architected almost something in between.

00:03:18:06 - 00:03:19:10
Speaker 3
Right? Right.

00:03:19:12 - 00:03:28:22
Speaker 1
How do you. Okay, so you're maybe let's back it up a little bit. Growing up was being a doc in this field like definitely something top of mind or did that how did that come to be?

00:03:28:22 - 00:03:59:09
Speaker 3
Yeah, that definitely was top of mind when I was a kid. That was always kind of pulled towards the book that had all the different systems in the body or, you know, asking the doctor questions or the dentist cleaning my teeth, you know, curious about how this all works. So for some reason just pulled in that direction. And so that was going to happen, I think I was, you know, through the course of becoming a practitioner, you start as a kid, you're kind of interested in just humans, and then you have to figure out somewhere along the way that, like most doctors don't just do humans.

00:03:59:11 - 00:04:00:23
Speaker 2
Which part of the human do I care about?

00:04:00:23 - 00:04:06:21
Speaker 3
The skin. You have the teeth. You have the feet. So wise, you know, it's. You want the honest that you want.

00:04:06:23 - 00:04:09:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, totally as honest as you can get.

00:04:09:10 - 00:04:28:08
Speaker 3
It's clean. Right. So in I care. There's not a lot of mass. There's not a lot of I, I tell people that there's no bleeding sick dying that happens is how to I care offices for the most part. Occasionally we do. Yeah. And it's a pretty non weekends. Your phone doesn't ring very much, you know what I mean.

00:04:28:08 - 00:04:45:10
Speaker 3
And so you can have that work life balance I think family is very important in being able to kind of unplug is something that a lot of people in health care can't do. Yeah. You know what I mean. You know, we saw that through the pandemic. We saw the, you know, the heroes that we all talked about. We saw and they were like battling to keep people alive in the hospitals.

00:04:45:12 - 00:05:03:21
Speaker 3
All of us were like, safe at home in our houses. Yeah. You know what I mean. So like, for in health care, there's there's definitely, you have to pick like, do I want to be always on. Do I want to be in the air, doc, or do I want to have the ability to kind of like, have the white picket fence and like, unplug and be with my family a whole bunch and it's not right or wrong, right?

00:05:03:21 - 00:05:10:04
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's just it's just where is your heart and where's your sort of priorities in life?

00:05:10:06 - 00:05:27:17
Speaker 1
That's not a thing. I, I, I believe that there's probably not I think a lot of folks think about just in general about careers, let alone especially in the medical field. You know, we have family and friends that are in that field as well. And almost exclusively they when they picked something it was based on, what were they exposed to or something in residency that interest them.

00:05:27:17 - 00:05:44:16
Speaker 1
And then they went to it. But I didn't go into the level beyond that, which is what you do. Maybe that's just maturity speaking, going like, well, even though you had to pick it early on. So you were probably had that maturity early on, which was how does it impact like the full complete Daniel Brinkman picture, not just Doctor Daniel, you know, working and all of those things.

00:05:44:16 - 00:05:45:22
Speaker 1
Are you happy with the choice you made?

00:05:45:22 - 00:06:01:20
Speaker 3
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Isaac. Great. I went to a, art show yesterday that was, featuring. I forget the name of it. I wish I could tell you, but they were featuring art that was put out by, homeless folks from the Austin area.

00:06:01:20 - 00:06:02:19
Speaker 2
Oh, really? Yeah.

00:06:02:20 - 00:06:06:07
Speaker 1
How did. I mean, what was it? I mean, like, like, sculptures and stuff, or.

00:06:06:07 - 00:06:28:16
Speaker 3
It was mostly painting. Okay. There was also, some different mediums. One of them was the guy had had just been arrested and then released, and he had all of this artistic energy that it was going through him at the time. Yeah. And he sat outside the courthouse and like drew on a piece of paper that was, on the other side was, you know, somebody's arrest warrant, some sort of legal document.

00:06:28:17 - 00:06:48:04
Speaker 3
And he had that post that was so cool. But anyways, at that event, one of the one of the artists had, a pretty severe eye condition. And so for many years, she couldn't see. And she, I told her I was an optometrist because she had some different eye pictures. And she goes, oh, I just had eye surgery and I can see again.

00:06:48:04 - 00:07:09:13
Speaker 3
I said, what do you mean? And just you could see the artwork before and then the artwork afterwards. And like the clarity and the in her life, like shifted. Wow. I mean, you know what I mean? So I think I think vision school of course I'm biased. But you know, I think, oh, we don't we don't always think about how much that vision impacts our work or the issue or our, you know, seeing your friends and family and all of those things.

00:07:09:15 - 00:07:11:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know, part of being human.

00:07:11:07 - 00:07:33:18
Speaker 1
No, I think that, oddly enough, had a weird thought the other day. I was driving down here downtown Austin. I don't know if this ever happens to you. I get this, like, ricochet thoughts? And I'm. And I'm about to say I might be a particular interesting, you know, person, but when it comes, I'll get this thing and I go, if I had to lose one of my senses, which which is the one that I want to for sure preserve sight for sure, like I would be.

00:07:33:18 - 00:07:40:22
Speaker 1
I'd rather be deaf, not be able to speak, and not be able to smell all day long for losing vision. Yeah, because I feel like I can put the rest together if I have to.

00:07:41:03 - 00:07:41:09
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:07:41:14 - 00:08:00:00
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. And I think along that same line of thinking, I think maybe, if you weren't born with it, it might not be that bad to, you know, I mean, I think you see that, but you wouldn't know what you lost, right? If you were. And there was never any vision. Yeah, I've had some folks before that are like that.

00:08:00:02 - 00:08:15:08
Speaker 3
Yeah. There was one woman I was working with in a partially sighted facility, and she had this little. It almost looked like an old Nokia phone. It had no screen on it, and she was looking off into the distance, not down at the device, and she was like rubbing her hand across it back and forth. And I walked in the room.

00:08:15:08 - 00:08:22:22
Speaker 3
I said, you know, I saw what she was doing. I'm like, what are you up to? What are you doing? She's like, I'm on Facebook.

00:08:23:00 - 00:08:23:13
Speaker 2
Really?

00:08:23:15 - 00:08:25:00
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:08:25:01 - 00:08:25:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean.

00:08:25:22 - 00:08:30:15
Speaker 1
And even now I think with what you see, the Neuralink stuff.

00:08:30:17 - 00:08:31:05
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:08:31:07 - 00:09:03:08
Speaker 1
Just like there's a lot of interesting things. And when you think about the prioritization of what it's, you know, what think technology like that it's doing is vision, like it's getting people to see again. And so it just being such a like such an immensely engaging and important thing. Yeah. When you think about kind of going into the world now of like where you're at today, but maybe just a half step back from that when you think about going from pure doc into now owner of a practice, what was the thought process there?

00:09:03:08 - 00:09:15:20
Speaker 1
Why not just stay, in that world of just being, you know, being just a practitioner in the craft and in kind of inherit it now, all the good and the ugly of owning a business.

00:09:15:22 - 00:09:35:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it's the question that you just asked is, is an apt one because it's something that in our, in our industry, not just eye and health care in general with health care being part of, you know, capitalism in the US, that that is a big decision point that we go through. And, you know, we check in with each other.

00:09:35:16 - 00:09:39:21
Speaker 3
Five years have passed and you see somebody, hey, how's it going? You still working for somebody? You own a practice?

00:09:39:22 - 00:09:40:10
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:09:40:12 - 00:09:59:15
Speaker 3
It's a very common kind of like, some folks to some folks don't. Some folks try, and then they realize that wasn't for them and they, like, backed out. And then. You know what I mean? So there's a there's sort of like a back and forth and fluid nature to that. But it's pretty relevant to most doctors. Yeah.

00:09:59:17 - 00:10:24:21
Speaker 3
And I think at a certain point it probably was around the time where we studied together. I don't know if your listeners know, but we went to business school together. Yep. I started to kind of see how not necessarily MBA concepts, but just sort of fundamental business things that you don't get access to all the time.

00:10:24:21 - 00:10:44:17
Speaker 3
But you might if you were picked up a couple of business books, if you could take that and apply it into the health care world, it really makes a big impact, not just on the business, but on the practitioners that are providing care for their patients, on the patients that are receiving care, their experience on the employees that work to support that whole thing.

00:10:44:19 - 00:11:04:05
Speaker 3
And so I kind of I kind of came away from that, like, this is cool, you know what I mean? Like, I don't even have to go in there with like, advanced formulas and spreadsheets and all the stuff that's kind of like traditional MBA thinking. I just had to kind of like, get like 3 or 4 principles and plug them in and like, watch it, like, have this huge impact.

00:11:04:06 - 00:11:06:08
Speaker 3
Okay. That's cool. That's fun. Let's do that.

00:11:06:10 - 00:11:18:15
Speaker 1
Did you, when you were thinking about you have any mentors or folks you spoke with early on and kind of said, hey, yeah, yeah, definitely go into the ownership part of it. I think that is something that you would excel at or is that you kind of winging it?

00:11:18:16 - 00:11:39:09
Speaker 3
No, I think I think definitely the the person that retired prior to us, you know, buying those two halves of the business definitely was very influential on being able to, you know, put out those ideas. Tell me, hey, like, you can do this. Like you're a, you're a young dude looking at a 14 location business, like you're not just staring in the face of a a tall dude.

00:11:39:09 - 00:11:58:09
Speaker 3
You're staring at the face of Goliath, right? So, so, so there was a lot of encouragement there. And then, you know, of course, after the after the transition took place, he stuck around and actually still calling to this day. So every 3 or 4 months he'll get a call. And I always start the call off with, hey, you still good with having these calls?

00:11:58:11 - 00:12:03:03
Speaker 2
Because I know you want to make sure because I know you're trying to retire and then you might be annoyed right now.

00:12:03:03 - 00:12:07:17
Speaker 3
Oh, no, I level, you know, he wants the business to be successful. You know, we had a good relationship personally.

00:12:07:17 - 00:12:08:08
Speaker 2
So, yeah.

00:12:08:13 - 00:12:10:17
Speaker 3
You know he still on board for now.

00:12:10:18 - 00:12:29:01
Speaker 1
Oh I'm sure he loves it. I do think that's not Yeah. That's not something to be underestimated. You know, I know as we're building out this operator network here at, main shares, one of the things that we're, we think about a lot is how important it is and how we can't let it fall to the wayside.

00:12:29:03 - 00:12:53:14
Speaker 1
Having mentorship, like there's a learning any craft, I think probably embodies three major facets. It interest. Like you have to have a passion, interest for that facet of whatever the craft is, everything from like metalwork to being a dog and owning a business. Then the next thing is there's a bit of the academia that's involved in, like understanding the like how the craft works, what are the basics, where are the fundamentals.

00:12:53:16 - 00:13:12:03
Speaker 1
But the one thing that I think is the unlock that almost all of us just kind of like either don't know about or we let it kind of fall to the wayside. Is this seeking those who've come before us mentality? Because I do think there's so much you can't I mean, many things hit you in the how many things that you, you currently deal with now that you go.

00:13:12:05 - 00:13:14:10
Speaker 1
But Joseph and I did not study that in our MBA.

00:13:14:10 - 00:13:15:20
Speaker 2
Because there was no class.

00:13:16:02 - 00:13:32:02
Speaker 1
On how you deal with this thing. And the only person who's probably got the answer is a little bit of you just going through it and then probably giving a call to that gentleman and saying, hey, do you ever have this happen? That's something that I do think when you when you look at mentorship, it's important. How do you

00:13:32:02 - 00:13:35:04
Speaker 1
you obviously did a really good job establishing a relationship.

00:13:35:06 - 00:14:00:04
Speaker 1
Any advice you'd give to folks from your experience when you were in the process of taking over this business, that any advice you'd have on the don't treat the owner as just simply a transaction kind of relationship, that you actually might be leaving a lot on the table. If you don't like, try to build some kind of relationship here that might allow you some unlock.

00:14:00:06 - 00:14:26:12
Speaker 3
I think you have to consider the business not as a security or an asset, I think, which it is like on paper. Right? I'm not saying that it's not, but the the, the business is the collection of a lot of decisions and a lot of framework and foundation that's been put in place by that operator that was there before you.

00:14:26:14 - 00:14:50:05
Speaker 3
And how difficult is it to make a successful business? Right. Like before we even talk about the one that you fought like any business. Yeah. What is the likelihood of failure? Very high, I don't know, but I would assume it's over 50%. It depends on the industry. Right. Sure. It's a restaurant that owner operator that's selling you. The restaurant is like the top echelon because restaurants are so difficult to make successful.

00:14:50:05 - 00:15:00:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so just having that baseline level of respect for being able to stand the test of time, I think is probably my first piece of advice towards that owner.

00:15:00:18 - 00:15:03:11
Speaker 1
The honor and part like honorable. Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:03:15 - 00:15:14:00
Speaker 3
Even if you don't 100% agree. Even if you look around and you tell yourself, oh, I'm gonna fix this. And I don't agree with this, like, just shut that side of your brain off. Like, you got plenty of years to do that. Yeah, you know what I mean?

00:15:14:00 - 00:15:14:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:15:14:21 - 00:15:39:07
Speaker 3
So, so have respect for them and what they've built. And then, you know, you just have to be humble. Humility. Yeah. You don't know everything. And I guarantee you they know a hundred times more than you do at this point. Right. Maybe eventually you'll know what they know and then surpass them after years pass and you develop and you read more and you sort of like get knocked down a million times.

00:15:39:07 - 00:15:58:05
Speaker 3
But for right now, going in and like thinking that you know better or how things are going to go and not giving the owner that level of respect for what they've built. I think they'll be more naturally open to working with you. Right? I think a lot of this and I've never been on the sell side, but I think a lot of it.

00:15:58:05 - 00:16:04:02
Speaker 3
And you, maybe you can fill me in. There's sort of this, like, I'm, like, letting you take my baby.

00:16:04:04 - 00:16:05:08
Speaker 1
Right. Oh that's 100%.

00:16:05:08 - 00:16:12:14
Speaker 3
There's such an emotional connection that the other forms to their business, it's part of their identity. Yeah. I don't trust everybody with my identity.

00:16:12:16 - 00:16:37:16
Speaker 1
Oh that's right. Especially if it's going to stay in the same town. Yeah. And we get owners you know, at birth. What we're doing now with this whole operator network thing is, is, is a big part of it is an answer to owners. They would get to the one yard line, almost get ready to sell their business and maybe do a private equity shop or someone on Wall Street or something similar and say, yeah, I changed my mind.

00:16:37:18 - 00:16:56:03
Speaker 1
And we go, oh, what happened here? You know, there is a price not right terms, not right. Like what's not right. They go, no, actually, I'm getting way more money than I thought. This thing than ever worth. You all are moving actually quite fast. Everything's great. Except that I just know that if I sell it to the shop, let's call it a big P.

00:16:56:05 - 00:17:13:21
Speaker 1
Then what's going to happen is, like, maybe 20% of my workforce gonna get fired. Day one. I'm going to outsource all these things. Now. I got to go to, like, church in the grocery store next week, and I got to go see all these people. And that just sounds like a miserable retirement. And so and they're going to be it's going to be a lot of drama that I don't want.

00:17:13:23 - 00:17:28:02
Speaker 1
You know what I've been great at saving. I sell it for parts, I own the real estate, and I'll just go retire and go down to Florida and fish for the rest of my life. And so the answer this was like, how do we go find the sons and daughters that these guys wished and gals could wish they could pass the business on to because they care about it?

00:17:28:02 - 00:17:47:18
Speaker 1
To your point, as their baby. And I think you've you've identified it even better. It's it is their identity is an extension of who they are. And the idea of just passing it on to anybody is not an easy proposition. My hunch is that the gentleman that you talk to who used to own it, probably looks forward to those calls.

00:17:47:20 - 00:18:04:23
Speaker 1
Because I imagine there's a I was having a conversation the other day with, with a couple folks, and, and we were talking about just like natural wiring of people. And some folks are just kind of wired as, like a working breed. Like, if you were a dog, they would be like a hunting dog, like they're just born to do this thing.

00:18:04:23 - 00:18:12:22
Speaker 1
There's like, no other way. And so my guess is that he's probably enjoying a little bit of retirement, but I bet you he likes for your phone calls. You just bet you he does.

00:18:12:22 - 00:18:20:12
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's like watching the next episode of the show that you used to love, and you have to wait three months between episodes. That's on. Let's. Yeah, let's do it.

00:18:20:12 - 00:18:23:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, let's go get it. Let's go. No. That's right.

00:18:23:04 - 00:18:25:07
Speaker 1
Which, by the way, man, Texas is crushing right now.

00:18:25:10 - 00:18:26:20
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yesterday was a good day.

00:18:26:20 - 00:18:29:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, that was a good day, man.

00:18:29:18 - 00:18:47:23
Speaker 1
So talk to me about before we go into Canada because I know this is something we jam on quite a bit. The culture stuff and leadership. Talk to me. Just going back to. I'm just so fascinated with the world of doctoring. We had a conversation a while ago and you had said, you know, what's funny about being a doctor?

00:18:47:23 - 00:19:09:15
Speaker 1
It's actually no different than being a mechanic. And I remember thinking he's being just really humble about that. And then you, you're like, no, I'm dead serious. You start breaking it down. What is it a common misconception about doctors using that, that kind of line of thinking there that you kind of what were you trying to allude to that when you were talking about that maybe not allude but directly say.

00:19:09:17 - 00:19:11:03
Speaker 3
Okay. Can you clarify a little bit?

00:19:11:08 - 00:19:28:15
Speaker 1
I'm wondering I'm just I'm there's a let me say differently here, I will I think there's a bit of a mystique of Doc's okay. And, and then and I think rightfully so y'all do great work. I mean, it's like a service service. But I remember when you told me that statement, it made me go, okay, that's not just the humble brag.

00:19:28:15 - 00:19:42:12
Speaker 1
Like he's saying, hey, look, man, I'm no different than this plumber down the road who's learning the craft or whatever it is. Just kind of if you could just and kind of share a little bit about doctors and how you actually look at it. Very similar to just learning another trade.

00:19:42:13 - 00:20:04:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I see what you mean. Okay. So so, you know, I'm not going to take you too far biologically into the whole explanation, but it's it's set up like an airplane, like the body or like a car or like a machine. All of the different systems work together. You've got a a cooling system and you've got like, a pump system that circulates the fluid, and then you've got the protective coating.

00:20:04:22 - 00:20:16:21
Speaker 3
And each of those systems have a doctor that's associated with it, just like you've got like a transmission guy that works on your transmission or an, brakes gal that takes care of your brakes like, they're very they're very similar.

00:20:16:21 - 00:20:19:21
Speaker 2
And you work on the heads up display, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:19:22 - 00:20:45:00
Speaker 3
We we work on that. And and the, the, the the key difference and maybe there's an a difference now that I'm thinking about it. But I think the key difference is that the, the psychology and the how the person feels inside with what the, you know, like, if you pop the hood and you find that the radiator is blown and you give the news to the person, they're probably not going to be happy.

00:20:45:00 - 00:21:00:10
Speaker 3
Yeah, right. But it's a little different when you're talking the hood and you tell them that their lungs are done. You know what I mean? Like that. That's a totally different conversation. And they bring the family in and or where do we go from here and how are we going to survive? And again, we don't work with that and I care.

00:21:00:13 - 00:21:11:19
Speaker 3
Yeah, right. But for the most part, but that aspect of it is mechanical. But then you overlay the human sort of psychology in the human experience.

00:21:12:00 - 00:21:15:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. So yeah, that that in itself is different, I guess, unless you.

00:21:15:10 - 00:21:37:17
Speaker 3
And I and I'm not going to throw any doctor listeners under the bus here, but some of us are better at the, at the, at both, right, the humanistic side of it and the, the mechanical side, the mechanical side is, is extremely hard. Right. You have to memorize all of these grids and dosages and percentages and interactions and all of these things.

00:21:37:17 - 00:22:05:03
Speaker 3
And that's just like to be able to like say like, hey, the radiator is blown. And then there's the whole nother skill set to be able to sit down with the family and have this hard conversation and sort of like take it out of doctor speak and translated into English. Yeah. And then have them be able to manage the emotional impact of what happens after you deliver that news and, you know, things like the things that have been kind of interesting to me is, how we encourage people past that.

00:22:05:03 - 00:22:17:22
Speaker 3
So you sort of like, deliver the news, answer questions, and then you deal with the psychological impact, you know, things that help a lot on our side is just simple messages like, hey, we're going to get through this. You know what I mean?

00:22:17:22 - 00:22:19:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:19:02 - 00:22:37:18
Speaker 1
You're not making any kind of. I've heard doc say, the reason you don't want to get too emotional about anything is because you might be giving false hope. And that's like, the worst thing you can do about somebody supposed to stay objective. But that statement, there is no we will get through it. I didn't promise you how it's going to end or what it is, but we will continue to stay with you through the process.

00:22:37:18 - 00:22:44:11
Speaker 1
And it's amazing how just let folks know that, oh, we'll all have our hand on the steering wheel here. Don't worry about it. I won't let go until we're done.

00:22:44:13 - 00:23:06:14
Speaker 3
One of my favorite doctors that, from from like TV is, the oncologist from Breaking Bad. I love when he meets with Walter White. He's just got the greatest, like, authors terrified and, like, you know, building up his empire of crime and all this stuff he's doing. He goes and meets with the oncologist and he says stuff like that.

00:23:06:16 - 00:23:13:14
Speaker 3
We're going to get through this, Walter, you know, we're not out of the woods yet. Stuff like that. That's great. I'm sitting there taking notes.

00:23:13:16 - 00:23:16:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, they said, I'm going to use this line. Yeah, but it's the it's the.

00:23:16:19 - 00:23:36:04
Speaker 1
Stuff that's the human skills that I think apply to everything in life and our personal relationships to the business staff. If we don't spend a lot of time at least just being thoughtful about those comments, I think we leave it up to there is a there is a and I've never put my finger on it, but I do know there is a magic that happens when you.

00:23:36:06 - 00:23:56:13
Speaker 1
It's a more maybe about setting the conditions by saying some of those things that allow folks to either drop their shoulders, knees, or to get that drive to go figure out a solution, or I think otherwise, it would just kind of be left to chance or left to, you know, your skills as a, I mechanic, you know, to kind of get in there and make it work so.

00:23:56:15 - 00:24:16:12
Speaker 3
It it helps, it helps unlock, I think, to your point, like, like a motivation, like your your immense fear and uncertainty of the situation blocks your ability to gain motivation. It's almost like this wall that's in the way of if you can make it to the other side, I can find the motivation to do what needs to be done to fix the issue.

00:24:16:13 - 00:24:33:00
Speaker 3
Yeah, but you're just like, knocked down on your back by this whole fear and what's going to happen. And you know, am I going to lose my sight? Or if it's something, you know, am I going to lose my life, whatever it is. And so you can't really get to the motivation side of it. So I think it's that Doc's job to, like get you over that.

00:24:33:00 - 00:24:48:18
Speaker 3
Like, yes, I'm afraid with you. Yeah. But like, here's what we should focus on because this is going to be the right path for you. And I believe this is the right path. And also where you're headed. I would go if I were in your situation. That's something I'll say sometimes. Yeah.

00:24:48:18 - 00:24:51:21
Speaker 1
You know, I like that, man. Yeah. If I'm in your shoes, this is what I do.

00:24:51:21 - 00:24:53:16
Speaker 3
Absolutely. What I would do next.

00:24:53:16 - 00:25:13:18
Speaker 1
And you're not making any promises about how the outcome will be. What you are saying is, this is the next best step, you know, and I think we often get mired by that. And I remember with my time in the service is I do and I used to share with some of the younger guys and gals coming up, which is like sometimes all you have is a tool as a leader.

00:25:13:18 - 00:25:29:16
Speaker 1
Is your calm like, that's it. And it seems very like throwaway, you know, like, how can I be so squishy? Because at the end of the day, man, you actually don't really know what to do next. I mean, you don't know how it's going to turn out next. The only thing you got is like, I know what this half step is, and maybe that's all you got.

00:25:29:16 - 00:25:41:23
Speaker 1
And it sounds like especially in the doctor world, I mean, people are. There usually not unless a routine is usually an out of the box for some positive reason. It's usually just because something in the plumbing went wrong.

00:25:41:23 - 00:25:44:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, something went wrong. Can I go? What do you.

00:25:44:11 - 00:25:51:20
Speaker 1
Do? Well, maybe not redo the whole plumbing, but the next best step. Just monitor, start taking these meds. Come back in in a month. Right. You know, you.

00:25:51:20 - 00:25:55:01
Speaker 3
Could do it. I was listening to you. I listened to that.

00:25:55:03 - 00:25:59:22
Speaker 2
I appreciate it, man. Well, maybe I wouldn't know what I would pick. Maybe. Maybe I'd be a.

00:26:00:00 - 00:26:00:23
Speaker 3
Yeah. What would you. Peg?

00:26:01:02 - 00:26:02:15
Speaker 1
What would I peg about as a doc?

00:26:02:19 - 00:26:06:21
Speaker 3
We got feed scan. We got what else?

00:26:06:23 - 00:26:13:16
Speaker 1
What's the what's the doc that, deals with a lot of extreme injuries.

00:26:13:18 - 00:26:16:03
Speaker 3
Probably the E.R. doc or internal medicine.

00:26:16:08 - 00:26:18:20
Speaker 1
Okay, maybe something like that. Yeah, although I'm.

00:26:18:20 - 00:26:19:10
Speaker 3
Not sure. Saying.

00:26:19:13 - 00:26:24:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, although I'm not sure, because. Am I going to have enough time to have those conversations or is it a lot of stat right.

00:26:24:15 - 00:26:28:14
Speaker 2
You know, maybe not. So maybe we got to get you out of here. Yeah, maybe it's not that then.

00:26:28:16 - 00:26:40:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, maybe something else I'll get back to you on that. Maybe that'll be my next career. After this, I go back to med school. I'm sure you can help me with that. Talk to me about you by the business. How long ago was that?

00:26:40:19 - 00:26:43:04
Speaker 3
Almost three years. So just shy of three.

00:26:43:06 - 00:26:48:10
Speaker 1
So talk to me about that first 30 days as the actual owner.

00:26:48:12 - 00:26:54:13
Speaker 3
Complete terror, 100% unadulterated, pure terror.

00:26:54:15 - 00:26:57:08
Speaker 2
Why?

00:26:57:10 - 00:27:09:14
Speaker 3
Because. Because you're hyper focused on the transaction for. And mine took a year or so. A year of, like, waiting for one day. I was, like, getting ready for the wedding, right?

00:27:09:16 - 00:27:10:03
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah.

00:27:10:03 - 00:27:26:12
Speaker 3
That's you planning great wedding, by the way. And then. And then you have the wedding, and then you go, like the next day you wake up, you're like, well, we do now. I don't know if it's terror in the sense of the marriage, but. Right. There's that uncertainty in the business side. It's like you, you just okay, like, what do I do each day?

00:27:26:12 - 00:27:40:00
Speaker 3
You don't know. You don't have a framework for it. Maybe the sellers had conversations with you. You kind of say like, hey, it's probably a good idea to check your books once a month and make sure you, you know, send out this before payroll goes out, those kind of things. But like, you don't have a day to day.

00:27:40:02 - 00:27:52:08
Speaker 3
So like, Monday rolls around, the transaction closes on Friday, and Monday rolls around. And now the seller's gone and you're in that seat that you wanted to be in so bad, like, Holy shit, what can I do here?

00:27:52:10 - 00:27:58:10
Speaker 2
It's like a dog catch in the car, right? You're even chasing that car now. You got it. And you're like, spin it on the wheel. And you know, what am I doing here? Yeah.

00:27:58:15 - 00:28:01:04
Speaker 3
And then. And then it starts spinning you and you're like, oh.

00:28:01:04 - 00:28:02:16
Speaker 2
Geez, what do I talk about?

00:28:02:19 - 00:28:08:01
Speaker 1
How did you get through that? What were the day bad days that got you one step, you know, one step to the next?

00:28:08:01 - 00:28:27:07
Speaker 3
I think a lot of like personal support outside of it. Like my wife is extremely, you know, by my side through thick or thin and was like, she didn't exactly know what was going on. I might come home and say, like, this fire happened and this happened. This this is we'll get through this. You know, she gave me the old Walter White oncology approach.

00:28:27:09 - 00:28:45:07
Speaker 3
And, and that support was key. And then again, the seller was there. All right. So we negotiated an arrangement where he was on board for a year, and he's still here today helping out occasionally. But I could always pick up the phone and call. And he was, you know, very willing to help me through that. But yeah.

00:28:45:09 - 00:28:46:16
Speaker 3
Terror.

00:28:46:18 - 00:28:48:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. What was it?

00:28:48:04 - 00:28:54:00
Speaker 1
Was any part of that terror? What are the what are the teammates the employees going to think of me?

00:28:54:02 - 00:29:23:03
Speaker 3
I think to some extent, yeah. I'm trying to quantify for you how what percentage is, you know, maybe 20 or 30%, okay, as that comes from the employees. But I think, you know, there's going to be different acquisition arrangements that people have. You know, I was with the business for some years. And so there's kind of like, an understanding that I think people have subconsciously, even if they don't have the news, like they kind of see, like where the company is headed and what's going to happen eventually.

00:29:23:05 - 00:29:38:23
Speaker 3
And so I think there was a lot of that kind of buffering the, you know, who is this guy? But if you if you, if I came in and I knew nobody and it was like, hey, day one. Hi, I'm the owner. Nice to meet you. And all the owner's gone. I think there would be a probably much more substantial level of concern for that.

00:29:39:04 - 00:30:04:23
Speaker 1
Any tips you have for folks that are and I see what you mean. You've had some you've had a warming period with them that it didn't seem that crazy. They're like, okay, well, Daniel's now no guy, but he was one of the guys before, so maybe it's not so crazy. But in this scenario, if you were to imagine never having any interactions with them, any pro tips you'd give folks just for 3060 days, like what would you do to establish that rapport in connection?

00:30:05:01 - 00:30:26:04
Speaker 3
That's a great question. And I think it's one that should be part of like a playbook for buying a business like you have to nail that part, because at the end of the day, the people inside of the organization, that's the business, right? The clients of the business and the building is the business and the computers of the business and the infrastructure and the network and all the other stuff that built the business.

00:30:26:04 - 00:30:45:20
Speaker 3
But the people are the core of the business. So you have to have a plan of how you're going to do that. I if I were to do it and not know anybody, I would really focus on getting to know people. What makes them tick? What are they excited about?

00:30:45:22 - 00:30:47:03
Speaker 1
Like even in a personal way?

00:30:47:07 - 00:31:06:07
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. And I know there's sort of like, well, like, we don't need to get to know each other that way because we're going to be associates. I'm going to own the company and we shouldn't cross boundaries. I'm not saying like, hey, let's spend a couple of days going to to learn all about each other. But those early conversations are not about like, hey, what are your job duties?

00:31:06:07 - 00:31:12:08
Speaker 3
So can you write down on this piece of paper what your job duties are, so that I have a good understanding of whether you're useful or not? To me, you know what I mean?

00:31:12:10 - 00:31:13:09
Speaker 1
So I know how to regrade.

00:31:13:09 - 00:31:14:12
Speaker 2
You, right? Yeah, yeah.

00:31:14:13 - 00:31:36:18
Speaker 3
That's right. Just how's it going? Like, you know, tell me, where are you from? Like, just getting to know somebody. Getting to know what makes them tick so that you you they feel valued. Right. Because because you're coming in, they're really wanting to learn about them, honestly, right. Not this isn't a place you honestly have to get to know the people that are going to be a part of your company.

00:31:36:20 - 00:31:43:19
Speaker 3
And then the other part of that is.

00:31:43:21 - 00:32:07:20
Speaker 3
It lays the foundation for managerial success down the road. Right. How hard is it if you have a new boss that's assigned to you in your department and doesn't say anything to you about yourself, or doesn't care to get to know you, and maybe mispronounces your name a little bit. Yeah. And then slips a stack of papers on your desk and says, hey, Joseph, this is your new assignment for the week, but you get to work on Friday.

00:32:07:20 - 00:32:08:14
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know.

00:32:08:20 - 00:32:23:02
Speaker 1
No, it's it's the worst feeling in the world, right? Where, you know, just asking. Hey, how's, it has likes you doing great. Did you all and actually say something beyond that, like, did y'all enjoy that? You know, that, can't be trivial. Did this weekend, you know, I mean, I love this stuff, but the weather was kind of hot.

00:32:23:04 - 00:32:40:17
Speaker 1
You're like, okay. He actually listened, like, actually remembered this thing. He actually gives a hoot. It's such a skill that soft skills is probably the wrong word because it seems unimportant, but that human staff is so important when it comes to just getting folks to just want to go a little bit more, you know, whatever it is, we do that for each other.

00:32:40:17 - 00:32:58:13
Speaker 1
I mean, I don't know why it's such a mystery when it comes to, the friends we hang out with the most, the ones that we always say yes to dinner, you know, even last minute. I don't know about you, but they're always the ones that, like, really give a hoot. They're the ones that, like, when I'm sitting there with them, they're actually listening to me.

00:32:58:17 - 00:33:02:22
Speaker 1
Actually remembered what I said they actually like. I can genuinely tell they're feeling it with me.

00:33:03:00 - 00:33:04:01
Speaker 3
Not just waiting to talk.

00:33:04:03 - 00:33:07:10
Speaker 2
You know, just waiting to talk. Yeah. And just, you know, like.

00:33:07:12 - 00:33:23:23
Speaker 1
I cool go anyways, you know, and so, you know, when are we going to do this, you know, what are we doing for the game next week. You know, something just really transactional. Yeah. It's funny that we don't think, that we don't think those two worlds can exist. It's like our best practices in our personal life that we think they don't apply to business.

00:33:24:01 - 00:33:39:10
Speaker 1
The best practices in business don't apply to our personal life. You know, and I think those are the things that we can get better at. When you think about your team specifically, I know we've, you and I love nerding out about the the leadership type stuff.

00:33:39:10 - 00:33:49:11
Speaker 1
How do you see the difference between leadership and management, like when you think about what the as a, as an owner, like when you think about what those two worlds look like, do you delineate a difference?

00:33:49:13 - 00:33:50:12
Speaker 3
Oh, 100%.

00:33:50:12 - 00:33:54:15
Speaker 1
Okay. What do you mean what's what's the difference to you?

00:33:54:17 - 00:33:57:10
Speaker 3
Are you talking academically like now?

00:33:57:10 - 00:33:57:23
Speaker 2
Not like.

00:33:57:23 - 00:34:00:09
Speaker 3
Theoretically. Or are you talking about, like, in practice?

00:34:00:09 - 00:34:05:14
Speaker 1
In practice? Yeah. In practice.

00:34:05:16 - 00:34:24:17
Speaker 3
Getting getting somebody to comply with a request and getting somebody to believe in a request. Yeah. That's the difference between management and leadership. Compliance is management. You know, believing in the mission is leadership

00:34:24:17 - 00:34:38:10
Speaker 3
and definitely post like the day and before with the organization was much more management heavy. And now you have to when you switch over into that operator chair, be more leadership oriented so you can you're.

00:34:38:10 - 00:34:44:17
Speaker 1
Much more systems and processes. And these are how you track your KPIs. And if you do all that are managing you well right.

00:34:44:21 - 00:34:47:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Do you need both though do you think.

00:34:48:00 - 00:34:49:13
Speaker 3
I think it depends on the situation.

00:34:49:16 - 00:34:50:01
Speaker 2
Okay.

00:34:50:05 - 00:35:10:06
Speaker 3
Right. Tell me more. Well, let's let's talk about you. You've you've been to war. You're right. There's a there's a time when you can sit with, with the platoon and give them an order that's, you know, there's no danger. And, and, you know, it's just going to be a routine. We're going to head up here, we're going to do a little recon, we're going to turn back around, and we're going to come back.

00:35:10:06 - 00:35:15:22
Speaker 3
Right? Yeah. Right. That's more management. You might draw a little picture of it, hold it up like a.

00:35:16:00 - 00:35:17:00
Speaker 2
Like a truck drive.

00:35:17:05 - 00:35:17:18
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:35:17:20 - 00:35:18:22
Speaker 2
Yeah that's right.

00:35:19:00 - 00:35:33:23
Speaker 3
And then leadership, you know you're being attacked on two different sides. And you know that that people's lives are on the line. There's going to be some degree of management that has to go into that. But when am I assuming correctly that you turn on that leadership side more?

00:35:34:00 - 00:35:56:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's dead on. Yeah. You end up inspiring him through action and it's not even like you're sitting there going, time to be a leader, you know, let me turn on my inspiration juice, you know, but it is more of this, it's amazing to me how many of us sit in the owner or the leader seat, and we think that we get paid for the good times and it's like, no, no, no, you don't actually like.

00:35:56:08 - 00:36:14:09
Speaker 1
As a matter of fact, like most elementary foundational folks could probably do your job on a good day. It's just citizens manager. And how are things going tracking this? Did this get paid? This get paid, you know, doing a meeting and chairing it, that's all very like teachable stuff. That's hard is the stuff that you're actually there for.

00:36:14:09 - 00:36:36:19
Speaker 1
It's that like it's the reason when the thing hits the fan is the reason that you are actually there, which is to inspire confidence, which is again, the leading sometimes is the calm. So I think you're dead on with that. It is just the ability to. I quoted it the other day, too. So, this thing about parents, for example, is actually just talking to one of our other advisors about that, like something similar.

00:36:36:19 - 00:36:53:23
Speaker 1
And they're just curious for this resonate. Managing your kids is kind of like probably some level of like, damn the stroller or the food. You know, you kind of have all the things. But have you ever seen, like, a little, and I do this with our nieces and nephews, like, they'll fall on the ground, you know, they'll hit their head.

00:36:54:01 - 00:37:11:18
Speaker 1
What do they do? First thing they do is they look up at you right in almost to see, like, what am I supposed to do right now? And usually, just maybe this is not a good thing, but I'm always like, hey, man, you're good. Like our you're good. That was a good fall, you know, like well done. And typically they don't cry like track it and then just keep going about their own.

00:37:11:20 - 00:37:30:13
Speaker 1
Whereas I've seen other folks that kind of like they'll get worried and like, oh my God, are you okay? And then they'll just be all right. I think that's the leadership piece is your people will go, oh, and they look over at you and they go, what's going on? What am I supposed to be doing here? And I think when they see their leader calm and collective about it, they go, okay, maybe, maybe working our way through this, it'll be fine.

00:37:30:16 - 00:37:30:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:37:30:22 - 00:37:32:07
Speaker 2
As opposed to being like.

00:37:32:08 - 00:37:39:07
Speaker 1
Where is this person? Or they are freaking out right now. I guess I need to be looking for another job. Yeah, yeah. So I think all that to say. That's right.

00:37:39:11 - 00:37:55:10
Speaker 3
Or and I think if I tie that back into what you were talking about with like the first 30 days after the businesses purchase, you're like, you don't know if mad at your management hat or leadership hats needed more. And you kind of have to make a conscious decision like, oh, this just came up like, let me try this.

00:37:55:15 - 00:38:15:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, right. But then over time, as the months and years and the relationship gets stronger and stronger between you and the employees, you sort of know, like, this is the time where I need to give a little speech or this is the time where I need to, like, call somebody and, you know, give them a kick in the rear end on the phone because of a bad situation that's going to hurt them down the road and in a leadership way, not in the management way.

00:38:15:10 - 00:38:24:06
Speaker 3
Or you might just know, hey, I'm rolling out a new software system and this is going to be 80% management and 20% leadership. Yeah, I'll send it out PDFs.

00:38:24:08 - 00:38:32:09
Speaker 2
It's like we all love at work. Yeah. Did you update your Google Sheet? Yeah, yeah yeah. But you got to do it right. Like you got to make sure that it's right. It's on par.

00:38:32:09 - 00:39:03:15
Speaker 3
But just that, that knee jerk. Right, right. To make sure it's on par. That knee jerk reaction of like what what how am I going to approach this with that split between management leadership that has developed over time? For sure? Yeah, I wouldn't say that. It's, you know, every time I know what to do. But when you've done it a handful of times and you start seeing the the range of problems, one of my, one of my colleagues who as a of that who's been a business owner his whole life, he said that's just all business is like your problem solver.

00:39:03:15 - 00:39:17:09
Speaker 3
And the problems get more and more complex the bigger the business gets. And you just have to, like, solve the problem, move on, solve the problem, move on, solve the problem. He's like, and eventually you're going to really love it. You're going to like these challenges. You know, a good one's going to come up and you're going to kind of ooh, this is great.

00:39:17:10 - 00:39:17:21
Speaker 3
Yeah. Smart.

00:39:18:01 - 00:39:19:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. You start to think about it.

00:39:19:12 - 00:39:21:05
Speaker 3
It's there, you know.

00:39:21:05 - 00:39:21:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:39:21:08 - 00:39:29:05
Speaker 1
It takes time to get those. One is probably just building up a baseline and a foundation of like that kind of that pain threshold.

00:39:29:10 - 00:39:30:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. And, you know, like, you just.

00:39:30:17 - 00:39:34:12
Speaker 1
Got to get good at. And then you're like, okay, I've established now it's a little bit more fun.

00:39:34:12 - 00:39:36:01
Speaker 2
You know, it's like when you.

00:39:36:01 - 00:39:41:04
Speaker 1
First start working out, right? Like it's all painful, right? Yeah. Everything hurts and aches. And then once you get there.

00:39:41:05 - 00:39:56:09
Speaker 3
It's a lot like that. It really is. It's it feels like a muscle being worked out that you just you develop an endurance for it. This past weekend, I was catching up some friends here in Austin, and somebody asked me, like, how are you doing? Like, not like, casually. Like, how are you doing? But like, how are you doing?

00:39:56:12 - 00:40:08:18
Speaker 3
You know what I mean? I was like, I kind of checked in with myself. I said, I'm great, I'm great. And that's a hard response to give in that first 30 to 90 to 180 days when you first take over.

00:40:08:18 - 00:40:13:07
Speaker 2
But then you're saying, that's okay, though. It's okay to feel that way slowly. Yeah.

00:40:13:09 - 00:40:15:09
Speaker 1
Like a tornado just came through your house.

00:40:15:11 - 00:40:32:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, but as long as as long as the business is solid, you don't rock the boat too much. And as long as you focus on getting to know your people, who they are as humans, not as, you know, dropping assignments and changing work on them, it'll work itself out. What do you. What I believe.

00:40:33:00 - 00:40:33:09
Speaker 2
I believe.

00:40:33:14 - 00:40:53:17
Speaker 1
I think proof in the pudding. Here you are, three years later. Man. Crushing. What, what do you have out on the home front? What are the expectations? And you got a you got a really special battle buddy that's helping you through here. But, like, for those looking at this right now, most of them probably have a significant other that is going to be on the, on the on the ship on the high seas, whether they like it or not.

00:40:53:17 - 00:41:07:01
Speaker 1
Absolutely. What do you do there? Like what would you tell somebody who's also looking to embark on this idea of owning and operating? What kind of warning odor? What kind of conditions do they expectations do they shared back in the house?

00:41:07:01 - 00:41:12:09
Speaker 3
Oh well.

00:41:12:11 - 00:41:34:15
Speaker 3
Prior priorities shift. Well initially once you once you first start, the priorities are going to shift. So if if we're saying let's say she's going to buy the business and he's, you know, going to be the support on the side, he's he's got to know that her priorities are going to be in the business 50, 60 hours a week, if not more.

00:41:34:19 - 00:41:55:17
Speaker 3
Yeah. And that doesn't have anything to do with how she feels about him. It's got to do with her wanting the business to be successful on their over employees that continue to keep their jobs and, you know, to eventually one day make some money and all the stuff that goes into it. And so that partner needs to have that, like, hey, this the focus and the priorities are going to shift.

00:41:55:19 - 00:42:21:16
Speaker 3
It's temporary, I hope. Right. You know, hopefully the spouse doesn't turn into the old Scrooge McDuck and never, you know, we're working on Christmas Eve. And, you know, I don't think that's the case for most people here. But the but the significant other definitely sort of has to give you that freedom. And then I think the other thing is, like the person who's in the like in that scenario, she bought the business.

00:42:21:16 - 00:42:40:15
Speaker 3
I think she's got to understand that there needs to be a time where you draw the line and shut off the business. Not like it's a good idea to shut off the business. Not like, hey, can I do an extra hour? Not like bargaining around what this means. Like, you got to draw some boundaries and, like, stick to them.

00:42:40:19 - 00:42:58:10
Speaker 3
Yeah, because then that allows the partner who's not in the middle of battle, like they're kind of the kind of they're they're hearing the stories, but they're not really on the ship feeling the turbulence that the, the owner is. They have the ability to kind of like connect with you and sort of like lick your wounds or like encourage you.

00:42:58:10 - 00:43:25:11
Speaker 3
And then the things that are the foundation for your relationship, you can continue to grow those as well. Yeah. Mean and I think that's, that's probably one of the bigger challenges posed by the business between the two. If you're you know, if you're in a relationship, being able to understand those aspects of it, I think either the the spouse in that scenario, the, the dude might not think she's not paying attention because she doesn't like, you know, she still likes you, I promise.

00:43:25:17 - 00:43:26:19
Speaker 2
Right? Yeah.

00:43:26:21 - 00:43:44:03
Speaker 3
And then in her situation, she might not be able to draw those boundaries because being the owner operator is very consuming. Yeah, there's nonstop work. Like at any given moment, there's 100 things on your list. You just have to understand that at a certain time or a certain day, or there's certain whatever it is, the system that you worked out, shut it off.

00:43:44:05 - 00:44:03:00
Speaker 3
It'll be there the next day. Yeah. You know, and I think probably some folks out there who are listening, who are workaholics, have gone through this, right. Like boss gives you a big assignment. You want to please, it's due on Friday and you really want to get it done, but you got to stay late on Thursday, and you had some plans with your significant other on Thursday night, and you kind of say, hey, honey, I got to stay at work late tonight.

00:44:03:00 - 00:44:13:01
Speaker 3
Yeah. So it can happen in the workplace too. But in the owner operator environment, it's like very pronounced, right? I mean, with the people that you talk to, you do hear that.

00:44:13:03 - 00:44:49:16
Speaker 1
All the time. And if anything we see that we can see that stuff come unraveled. Was talking to you, talking to, an aspiring operator here, and things just kind of went awry, because the CliffsNotes version is because things weren't good at home. And so it is one of those things we often say here that some version of this what I'm about to say, which is, especially in the acquisition side of the house, like a business can be like a lot of the a lot of the likelihood of a business and a deal closing is completely predicated on the, on the family situation.

00:44:49:18 - 00:45:03:00
Speaker 1
And so because those decisions with your border director, which is the other one across the table, dinner is like really what's actually where the real decisions are being made. And so those are one of the things that we actually take a lot of input into is like, how does your wife feel about this? How's your husband feel about this?

00:45:03:00 - 00:45:16:14
Speaker 1
Right. Especially if they're married or how's your boyfriend or girlfriend or how's your family feel about it? And it's the thing I'm proud of here, because we do ask that. Because we just know. I mean, yeah, it's good business for us, too, because we recognize, like, that's a major harpoon if it's not good and we want to get Lana's side to it.

00:45:16:16 - 00:45:47:05
Speaker 1
But we also recognize like that's the human aspect of this. It's it's arguably the biggest financial decision you'll ever make in your entire life. And it can be a beautiful thing because you can create like generational wealth. But at the same time, it's also just not to be underestimated as a big deal. And I do think when you talked about expectations and it's, you know, it's hopefully not a forever thing, I think what helps me, what I, what I try to coach folks on and think through a little bit is treat your home life no different than if it was you running two businesses.

00:45:47:05 - 00:46:04:23
Speaker 1
If you could think about it that way, how would you ensure those things are integrating? Well, you wouldn't sabotage one for the other, would you know? Okay, cool. Then don't do that here. Right. And I look at family life. That's a vocation, like you being married to a vocation. And so like if you're doing that well, then you'll understand that those two things have to talk to each other.

00:46:04:23 - 00:46:27:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. Usually when my, when my and I notice friends of mine, when their home life is going well. God, they're assassin operators. Like, they're really good in the workplace. I don't think it's a coincidence that when things are on the Fritz, they're not making decisions are short with people at work. They're like, those aren't okay. And I think as leaders, too, it's important for us to like, actually give a hoot about our people.

00:46:27:15 - 00:46:44:00
Speaker 1
There's times where I think it's important to let your teammate go home early to handle something, you know, because it's not, you know, you'd love to have robotics, you know, maybe. But I think it takes the fun out of running business. But, you know, you could have a bunch of robots in your company. And, you know, I guess they would always be doing the things that you need to do.

00:46:44:02 - 00:46:48:04
Speaker 1
But what fun is that? Like? That's just sounds like a very sterile environment to operate in.

00:46:48:05 - 00:46:52:15
Speaker 3
Well, we all see what happened in Terminator when we do that. Skynet.

00:46:52:17 - 00:46:53:18
Speaker 2
That's a great I.

00:46:53:19 - 00:46:54:10
Speaker 3
Can't have that.

00:46:54:12 - 00:46:55:02
Speaker 2
We can't have that.

00:46:55:02 - 00:47:15:01
Speaker 1
I mean, we can watch that, but we can't have that ourselves, you know? No, I love it. I mean, I think it's one of those things that, it's that is that is another thing that I think we underestimated as humans is the importance of making sure those things are good and not always perfect, just even simple, expectations.

00:47:15:01 - 00:47:34:19
Speaker 1
I often find that whether it's in a company or whether it's at home, just not setting expectations, even ones that are hard to deal with, just being able to communicate that can get you to go a long way. Talk to me about we have we have, chatted about just kind of as a transition into, people, more people, staff.

00:47:34:19 - 00:47:58:21
Speaker 1
Okay. We've had conversations about folks on our teams that are awesome, like humans. Then maybe not awesome operators. Like, they just they're they're maybe not ever. Like they're not maybe the most, fruitful teammates. We're. How have you found have you had examples of that in your, in your career and where have you figured out what to do with this person?

00:47:58:21 - 00:48:15:15
Speaker 1
It's almost opposite of the brilliant jerk scenario where you had this really hard core salesperson. That's just a poison to the organization, right? Most folks would tell, you need to fire that person, you know, believe it or not, or bring up the rest of the folks. If you can do that, this is almost the opposite question. What do you do with the person everybody loves that isn't very productive?

00:48:15:17 - 00:48:16:22
Speaker 1
Have you had any of that in your life?

00:48:16:22 - 00:48:46:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely not. That's a that's a hard situation. Right. You've got especially in these small businesses. Right. We're not being powered by departments of a large number of people. Right. So each player in this small business has a pretty important matters a lot. Right? Yeah. So so. The work that they do has a larger impact than if you are like IBM or Intel, because their their work covers so much more.

00:48:46:20 - 00:49:08:22
Speaker 3
But they might have a, a, a strong impact on all the people around them too. And so you're sort of like stuck in this position, like how do I approach this? What's the best way to go about this? I think, I think identifying the like, the why is really important. If you I'm thinking of like an athlete right now.

00:49:08:22 - 00:49:25:18
Speaker 3
Like if they're not performing their best on your team and you know that they should be like, what's going on, you know, and if it's, you know, it's not something physical. And so being able to have those open conversations, which again, goes back to having that human relationship, right. If you don't have that human relationship, you won't be able to access that.

00:49:25:20 - 00:49:30:03
Speaker 2
Oh shut down. Everything's fine. Yeah. No, no we're good. Don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah.

00:49:30:08 - 00:49:54:22
Speaker 3
I'm working on that assignment. I'll get it to you next week. Yeah. So being able to get people to open up and sort of, like, share what's going on and then and then assessing like yourself how what can I do? What can the company do to either support them through that or to continue dialogs along that line and sort of like make the employee aware that this is something that like we got to work through, right?

00:49:54:22 - 00:50:18:14
Speaker 3
I like everybody life happens to it happens to you. It happens to me. It happens. Everybody you've ever known we have losses. We have trauma, tragedies. Unexpected things happen, right? You drive home and somebody calls you on the way home, and now you've got this news. You got work tomorrow. Yeah, you got to show up. And so the the things that happen in people's lives, you have to sort of understand, like, what can we do to help?

00:50:18:14 - 00:50:33:09
Speaker 3
How can we support? Or is this something that's bigger and greater and more related to their attitude or how they feel about the company as a whole, or how they feel about themselves? There's something that we need to bring in a therapist, you know what I mean? Because sometimes it's, you know, you can't be a therapist.

00:50:33:10 - 00:50:35:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's beyond scope. There. Yeah.

00:50:35:08 - 00:50:53:00
Speaker 3
But there's even been conversations like that, like, hey, like, maybe it's time to talk to somebody. Like, have you ever reach out to anybody? Oh, I don't I don't want to do that. Well, you know, you're hurting. I see you hurting like it might be a good idea. And just a gentle conversation like that can sort of steer things back in a direction where the person starts to heal.

00:50:53:02 - 00:51:01:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, but you got to figure out what the what the why is why that situation is happening. And then once you have that uncovered, you can kind of like develop a plan of attack that makes sense.

00:51:01:20 - 00:51:23:22
Speaker 1
Makes sense. I mean, when you're you're you're tripling down. I think of how invested. I mean, I know you give a hoot about us and we've been buds for a while. So I mean, this is not new news to me, but I think for folks out there who are embarking on this or are in the middle of it right now, I think they don't recognize it like you're this is a heavy thing you're standing up to do, right?

00:51:23:23 - 00:51:43:08
Speaker 1
Being this leader, being his own, or being his operator. It's not something to be taken lightly because you're, had a note. My, first concern ever had, and just a really good friend and a really great mentor of mine is right. Right hand man. One of my first right hand man in the military, used to always say, you go, sir.

00:51:43:08 - 00:52:07:10
Speaker 1
Your people deserve excellent leadership. Like that's what they deserve, nothing less. Awesome. That's your job. Your job is to be the very best leader for them possible. And that means a lot of things, right? That means holding them accountable means tough love sometimes. But it also means giving a hoot. Like in a very deep way. Right? Because if you think about it, it is something that, it's part of the Rubik's Cube of this business that like you're trying to solve.

00:52:07:10 - 00:52:31:05
Speaker 1
And part of it is like that one little red square that you're trying to get back. So the other, you know, with the other red squares and sometimes you just one of those weeks, it's, it's going to take you more time to get it there. But I will also say that it, it breeds immense loyalty. If you can get through that with this person in a way that, like, you can't buy like but it it is not something I think when you're probably in the middle of just like keeping this business running that you always think about.

00:52:31:05 - 00:52:49:04
Speaker 1
So no, I think it rings loud and clear. Do you think that stuff ever goes away, or you think it's just always just looks different, like those types of human things, like, do you ever does, Dan, you ever get to the point where he's like, I've solved it all and ten years in and never see this ever again?

00:52:49:07 - 00:52:50:10
Speaker 2
No. Yeah.

00:52:50:12 - 00:52:53:22
Speaker 3
I just fear, that's my final answer.

00:52:54:00 - 00:52:55:00
Speaker 2
Your lifeline. I mean.

00:52:55:00 - 00:53:14:21
Speaker 3
In your in your family, is it does it ever stop anybody that's listening to this show? Is it ever, like, perfect for two weeks straight? No. You're going to get in a car wreck. You're going to have somebody walk out on you. You're going to have somebody walk in on you. You're going to have like, all of these different life circumstances is part of the human condition.

00:53:14:21 - 00:53:29:04
Speaker 3
And so that's just that's just the part of it. Yeah. And being able to kind of be cognizant of it, you don't have to become an expert. That's actually one of the things that the the owner of the company told me before he retired was like, you know, you should probably study some psychology.

00:53:29:06 - 00:53:31:01
Speaker 2
That's awesome. Really?

00:53:31:03 - 00:53:51:15
Speaker 3
Just just to understand people and understand their, their motives and what makes them tick. Because it's it's complicated. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, we just begin to scratch the surface of it with with how we interact with our friends and family. There's this deep world of motivations, hopes, dreams, fears, how people feel, what inspires them.

00:53:51:19 - 00:54:14:21
Speaker 3
I think that's something that inspiration is, is a big thing with being able to have a team perform very well. But psychology, which is interesting, I haven't really delved down that path. I mean, I've taken some for my schooling, just some basic courses, but I'm curious if that would be sort of like, a complementary skill set of study under leadership.

00:54:14:23 - 00:54:15:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, I.

00:54:15:14 - 00:54:33:14
Speaker 1
Think, if you take some psychology courses, I mean, now that you're kind of, now you're part of our advisor group here, might maybe just something. We go bring a doctor Daniel up like. No, no, we're not teaching our stuff today. I'm just going to dive in in psychology. But you're right. That is something that I think we got to highlight, you know, in a way that it's useful and pragmatic.

00:54:33:14 - 00:54:52:08
Speaker 1
I think people go, psychology that's really just in outer space and very emotional and like in the spiritual realm of things. But it's not it's it's no different than when you ball your fist up in a meeting because you're like, hey, that that was my idea, that psychology, like, okay, let's, you know, it's the little things a leader can do, right?

00:54:52:08 - 00:55:09:20
Speaker 1
If they recognize that there's tension there. I think it did the or I saw someone do it the other day. I think they did a brilliant job on it, which was, show that there was a, there was an idea that they, it wasn't there, but they called it out. I mean, just for half a second. And this was something that so-and-so did.

00:55:10:00 - 00:55:19:13
Speaker 1
I thought it was a really great idea. And then we just went right into business. That alone, it was like the most awesome thing ever. It was disarming. It was credit where credit's due, and then it kept the ship moving.

00:55:19:13 - 00:55:20:01
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:55:20:03 - 00:55:27:06
Speaker 1
But it's things that, like you don't even think about. But they're your teammates in a meeting going like, that was my idea. You know, they just took it for their own. It's like, no they didn't.

00:55:27:08 - 00:55:27:21
Speaker 2
If you're really.

00:55:27:21 - 00:55:38:03
Speaker 1
Thinking about now, I kind of like the third layer of psychology. We can talk about empathy for leadership up. Right. Which is also like your leaders also got a million things on their brain. And they just they weren't being malicious.

00:55:38:03 - 00:55:39:08
Speaker 2
They just literally wasn't.

00:55:39:08 - 00:55:43:09
Speaker 1
Thinking like that idea came in their head with a thousand other ideas. Yeah. They're they just thought.

00:55:43:11 - 00:55:46:05
Speaker 3
They were putting out at the same time. Yeah. Like there wasn't a room.

00:55:46:05 - 00:55:48:04
Speaker 2
There wasn't room. But I mean, the way you'd.

00:55:48:04 - 00:55:56:19
Speaker 1
Maybe repair that situation if you caught it later is, you know, coming back and being like, hey, I know that was your idea and just making it right, you know, whatever it might be. But yeah, no, I think.

00:55:56:19 - 00:55:58:21
Speaker 2
We'll definitely psychology.

00:55:58:22 - 00:55:59:20
Speaker 1
We at room we.

00:55:59:22 - 00:56:04:15
Speaker 3
Talk about, you know, one of our favorite leaders in television is Ted Lasso.

00:56:04:15 - 00:56:06:10
Speaker 2
Or. Yeah, his best man.

00:56:06:12 - 00:56:10:03
Speaker 3
What did he what did he put in the locker room in the first season? Up on the wall?

00:56:10:05 - 00:56:12:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's, the the.

00:56:12:04 - 00:56:16:15
Speaker 1
Torn letter that ended up getting, you know, more and more, which is belief. Yeah.

00:56:16:17 - 00:56:37:16
Speaker 3
And the show, it does a good job. It's a good it's a good leadership study. If you haven't watched it before, it's excellent. How that inspired a losing team to become a winning team. And of course, it's not just the sign. It's a collection of everything that happened and, you know, everything. But, that was certainly a psychology move.

00:56:37:16 - 00:56:45:04
Speaker 3
And he knew what he was doing. You didn't know what he was doing. And that's kind of fun in the beginning of the show to see that. But psychology is helpful.

00:56:45:04 - 00:56:46:19
Speaker 1
I think it's everything, man.

00:56:46:19 - 00:56:48:02
Speaker 3
Anyway, study more.

00:56:48:04 - 00:56:48:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:56:49:00 - 00:57:03:17
Speaker 1
Maybe start, making that a part of our leadership curriculum there in the even in these MBA programs. Like, I know we're coming up on time, and I want to make sure that I get this last one in, which has got nothing to do with. No, that's not true. If I got a little to do with psychology.

00:57:03:17 - 00:57:23:16
Speaker 1
But I think it's something you said the other day that know thing is burning my brain all week, man. But you said if you want passive income, buy stocks, don't buy small business. Talk to me what that means. Well.

00:57:23:18 - 00:57:36:15
Speaker 3
I, I hear this like, you know, if you're going to buy a business and get rich and, you know, oh, look like, let's buy, you're talking about a plumbing company. Let's have this buy a plumbing company. Like, do you know anything about plumbing? Are you passionate about plumbing?

00:57:36:15 - 00:57:39:04
Speaker 2
Like, wow. Oh, the multiples are great. Yeah.

00:57:39:05 - 00:58:01:09
Speaker 3
Makes a bunch of money, you know. Yeah, I got I got a good guy that's going to finance me. You know, that sort of belief system. That's going to translate over into how you operate the company, because you're lacking the passion and the drive and the knowledge and the skill set to be successful. And so it's just going to devalue the company over the course of time.

00:58:01:11 - 00:58:17:00
Speaker 3
It might devalued on paper, it might not it might stay the same on paper, but it's devaluing the organization and the marketplace and what it means and what it does for the community. Right. If you want to be that kind of owner, no problem. Like just buy a stock.

00:58:17:00 - 00:58:18:09
Speaker 3
That's what it's designed.

00:58:18:09 - 00:58:20:03
Speaker 2
To get owner in that. Yeah. That's right.

00:58:20:05 - 00:58:41:12
Speaker 3
I share an apple and now you've got a piece of a company. You're an owner and you don't how you can be a passive income owner. But if you want to roll up your sleeves and you want to get with the people and listen to them and help them and coach them and guide them and direct them in new directions and implement things alongside them and ride the sort of excitement and passion along the way with the value of the company rising.

00:58:41:12 - 00:58:45:12
Speaker 3
Then buy a company.

00:58:45:14 - 00:59:05:05
Speaker 1
Or containing better than that, man. I think that's one of the things that we pressure test folks for, which is, as you're getting down this road, as they're thinking about ownership, why are you doing it? You know, and I think it's the money side of things is is important reason. I think that's okay to want to have these dreams, to create financial prosperity for you and your family and for your teammates.

00:59:05:05 - 00:59:17:14
Speaker 1
I think all those are good reasons, but I think alone maybe is not good. I mean, if to your point, there are other ways in which you can generate that amount of return, another way, you know, without doing it. And it does.

00:59:17:14 - 00:59:28:18
Speaker 1
That's actually one of our red flags, is when we hear an aspiring operator come through and we hear, you know, I'm just, you know, I've been working for the last ten years at some big company.

00:59:28:20 - 00:59:44:13
Speaker 1
I'm just tired of grinding. And, you know, I really just don't know if I can handle any more of the, like, ups and downs of this thing. And I'm just looking to go buy a business and just get that mail, check my, you know, mailbox money. And we go, okay, well, then you let me educate you on what you're actually signing up for.

00:59:44:13 - 00:59:46:11
Speaker 1
I think something twice is more painful.

00:59:46:12 - 00:59:50:01
Speaker 2
Way more grinds, you know, and there's no mail check.

00:59:50:04 - 00:59:54:15
Speaker 1
Money some days, you know, like, as a matter of fact, like, you mean have finding yourself having to lose some money.

00:59:54:15 - 00:59:57:15
Speaker 3
It's it's here. The track is going the other way in the mailbox.

00:59:57:15 - 01:00:05:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's right. If you mean you're putting the money in the mailbox. Yeah. Then I think that's right. That's. Yeah, we could do that. You go into sending money to somebody else's mailbox.

01:00:05:10 - 01:00:34:06
Speaker 1
It's a beautiful thing, and I don't. I think it's, I, I equate it to elite sports, elite organizations in the military. Whatever it is, it's to to me, I think the right folks are inspired and drawn to this idea of something bigger themselves, like something harder and something that proves their grit and their potential. I think then operating an ownership is something, I consider it, but I think of it as something that you're looking at from a financial engineering thing.

01:00:34:08 - 01:00:36:21
Speaker 1
I think to your point, stocks is the way to go. Yeah.

01:00:36:23 - 01:01:00:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's just. Owning owning a business is inherently different. And it's going to take a piece of you with it, which we talked about at the beginning of the episode with, owner selling you a piece of themselves and their identity. Yeah. You know, you know, what's going to as that owner steps out, their identity will eventually step out and yours is going to step in.

01:01:00:14 - 01:01:17:20
Speaker 3
You got to be ready for that. You're you're ready to pour yourself into it and sort of become the business and sort of think about it all day and night, and you breathe and sleep it. And then eventually do the same thing and pass it on to the next person and let them take over in that role. But if you don't want that, get a stock.

01:01:17:20 - 01:01:18:09
Speaker 2
Is that.

01:01:18:10 - 01:01:21:09
Speaker 3
There's a quite a few you could talk about if you make some money.

01:01:21:09 - 01:01:23:05
Speaker 2
To make some money there. Yeah. You got to give me the tip.

01:01:23:05 - 01:01:39:17
Speaker 1
And what, for let you go. Me on. What the. Why do you keep it? Like, why do you keep doing this thing? For those that have said, I think I do got what it takes, you and I. And my mind's in the right place. What's the one thing that maybe surprised you? Maybe it's a couple things, but what's something you're going like that just gives me that?

01:01:39:17 - 01:01:41:11
Speaker 1
I mean, like, I you can't buy that.

01:01:41:13 - 01:02:00:08
Speaker 3
Well, aside from what we've talked about a lot, like working with people. Yeah. I think the other thing of it is I'm a puzzle guy, you know, like when I was a kid, I built models or trains or sort of, like, constructed. So I like, you know, it probably was the reason I was interested in the body because of its complexity, all the different organs and systems.

01:02:00:08 - 01:02:18:14
Speaker 3
Yeah, but that's like the buying the business. Is this like a never ending project? Like, even if you're building a skyscraper, it's finite. There's the end of the project. Yes. Right. But the business, there's no end. It's an eternal project that you just get to, like, get cranking away out every day. And there's ups and downs and twists and turns and different directions.

01:02:18:14 - 01:02:36:09
Speaker 3
And then right before projects at once. And only one other times. But it's this extremely fun challenge that just, you know, for somebody that really wants to, like, focus on work and do work and be productive and to and tackle challenges, it's nonstop. So it's very, you know, stimulating from somebody that wants to do that.

01:02:36:15 - 01:02:40:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's the might be the ultimate puzzle. Yeah. Yeah man.

01:02:40:13 - 01:02:43:02
Speaker 3
It just keeps getting bigger hopefully.

01:02:43:04 - 01:02:44:10
Speaker 1
Brother it's so good to see.

01:02:44:10 - 01:02:45:01
Speaker 3
Nice to see you too.

01:02:45:01 - 01:03:08:20
Speaker 1
I'm glad you could. We'll be up and I'm sure in the Dallas-Fort worth area here at some point, but anytime you're back in Austin, always swing by HQ here. And thanks again for doing. Thanks for being an example of like, I think, what being a true someone who's truly invested in the craft not only of ownership but just of also just leadership stuff, and then also just being as we used to say, the server's just a good dude.

01:03:08:22 - 01:03:24:16
Speaker 1
I mean, somebody who I think is real about what it takes to do these hard things, while also I think you've always had a good balance of not taking it and taking yourself too seriously as you do it, because this stuff is a lot of just running and gunning and figuring it out, right.

01:03:24:18 - 01:03:43:04
Speaker 3
It is. It really is, really kind words. I appreciate it, Joseph. One thing that I really like about our conversations, and in this episode, there's probably going to be a couple that I always leave with, like one nugget that's, like, valuable, that sticks with me. And, that's a that's kind of hard to usually hear. You might get that one every couple of years with a friend.

01:03:43:04 - 01:03:47:09
Speaker 3
Like every time I talk to you, I'm like, yeah, I got something like, I'm going to put that in my pocket one day.

01:03:47:14 - 01:03:50:04
Speaker 2
It took a year to get me. Well, I appreciate it, buddy.

01:03:50:06 - 01:04:07:10
Speaker 1
Well, I'll let you go for now. But in the meantime, man, I know that. I know that a lot of our folks will see you again and again and hear from you again. But I appreciate the time, man, and safe travels back to Dallas. Thank you. All right, man, I think that's it, man. Brother. That was awesome, dude.

01:04:07:11 - 01:04:08:02
Speaker 3
Good times.