Travis McAshan - Designing Success Through Beauty, Results, and Resilience

n this episode of American Operator, JC sits down with Travis McAshan, founder and visionary leader of Glide Design, a trailblazing marketing and design firm based in Austin, Texas. Travis shares his entrepreneurial journey, from leaving the corporate grind to creating a company centered on “beauty and results.” Together, they dive deep into the power of user-centered design, the importance of continuous improvement, and the mindset needed to embrace failure as a stepping stone to success.

Travis reveals his personal and professional philosophies, including how writing daily “Be" statements has transformed his life and leadership style. He also opens up about the messy reality of entrepreneurship, sharing insights from his 21-year journey of running a business, overcoming burnout, and reconnecting with his purpose.

Whether you’re a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting your journey, this episode is packed with actionable wisdom and inspiration to help you define your purpose, lead with integrity, and navigate the challenges of business ownership. #operatorinsights #operatorlife #acquisition #buyabusiness

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Transcript

All right, team, welcome back. I'm here with Travis McAshan. I would call him an Austin staple, but definitely a Texas guy. Probably owned had a couple records I think on the on the track at one point in time.

00:00:13:03 - 00:00:19:10
Speaker 2
And so he's quite dude. To be able to talk with today, man. So, so good to have you.

00:00:19:16 - 00:00:22:13
Speaker 1
I am pleased to be here. It's it's an honor.

00:00:22:15 - 00:00:36:10
Speaker 2
Well, I'll tell you, man, one of the things that I know we were we basically had an entire podcast episode before we just jump live on these mics, which is great. So I was like, all right, we got to get some of this stuff in here. But one of the things that, I want to share with the audience first is a little bit about your background.

00:00:36:10 - 00:00:57:10
Speaker 2
I runs a company, founded a company called Glide Design, and when you think of epic experiences, it is not only visually and from an audio perspective really engaging, but also in this world of like, you have helped some of the biggest brands from the circuit of the Americas. There in the F1 track all the way to. Is Austin FC one of your folks too?

00:00:57:10 - 00:00:58:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:00:58:00 - 00:01:02:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, multiple. Actually. We're on our third professional soccer team now. Are you? Yeah that's.

00:01:02:15 - 00:01:17:13
Speaker 2
Awesome man. Well, so like anybody who really wants to make sure they arrived in the world in a way that they know kind of what their company and tribe stands for, they seem to find you. Can you just give folks a quick snippet of like, how did that how did that idea of this company come to be?

00:01:17:15 - 00:01:43:04
Speaker 1
Wow. You know, so much to say on that, to create a concise version. I just honestly was sick of having a boss and, left to start my own company. And I think my passion was just creativity and design. And, at the time, the internet was this huge wave. Right? You have kind of the internet and then mobile, and now I these, like, giant general, kind of general purpose technologies that change the world.

00:01:43:04 - 00:02:02:20
Speaker 1
And, you know, at the time that I started like kind of early 2000, the wave was internet. And so there was this digital transformation occurring in all of these organizations were either getting websites for the first time or improving their websites. And, and so it was just a great place to be. And then living in Austin, Texas, is also a benefit.

00:02:02:22 - 00:02:26:07
Speaker 1
And just the tide that lifts all boats. And so kind of, the place that that came from was just a place of the passion for design and passion for usability. I got my degree in architecture in college. And so, you know, I've always just traveled the world through the lens of usability. I mean, when I'm driving down the road and I look at a billboard and there's like too much, too many words, I'm just like, who designed that book?

00:02:26:08 - 00:02:45:08
Speaker 1
Fired, you know, or a doorknob that's, you know, that's turned the wrong way. And so I just take that to the digital space. And, so our, our deepest passion is really not just to design things that look great, but they work great. You know, one of my favorite quotes is don't make something unless it is both necessary and useful.

00:02:45:08 - 00:03:01:19
Speaker 1
But if it is both necessary and useful, don't hesitate to make it beautiful. And so to us, we have this, you know, I was on a call pretty early in the history of my company, with a really great client. They were they're now a multi-billion dollar organization. We were with them when they were, like 15 million.

00:03:01:21 - 00:03:17:03
Speaker 1
And at the time, for us, it would have been one of our biggest clients. And the guy, the marketing leader on the other side of the call, he's like, hey, man, look, it's down to you and one other organization you have 30s why should I choose your company? And so, like, the pressure's on you know, like, what am I going to say in this moment?

00:03:17:03 - 00:03:45:21
Speaker 1
And, you know, like, you know, you're kind of life flashes for your eyes. And and the first words out of my mouth were beauty and results. And so, you know, I kind of described what that meant in a 32nd period and just this concept of beauty being far more than just what things look like or the presentational value of it, but the simplicity of the clarity, the brevity, the humanity, everything that creates a delightful experience because, you know, our avenue to effect impact in marketing was through this website project, which then turned into a longer engagement.

00:03:45:21 - 00:04:01:05
Speaker 1
And so that's what I always tell people were beauty and results company. You know, so we think that, Jeff Bezos, one time somebody asked him, how can you be so right? How can you make all of these great decisions? And by the way, he hasn't look at the fire phone, right. Like that was like a $500 million right off.

00:04:01:10 - 00:04:19:11
Speaker 1
But like, he's made a lot of great decisions, you know, and in this interview, somebody asked him that question and he said, I don't know what people want in ten years, but they're going to want it cheaper and they're going to want it faster. So I build toward that. And my mind was blown, you know, when he answered that question, because I just like, wow, what a great long term strategy, you know?

00:04:19:13 - 00:04:37:02
Speaker 1
And so I said, well, what do people want in our industry in ten years? You know, it's not cheaper. People are willing to spend more money on something that looks great and works great. So that's where I came to this concept of beauty and results. You know, like most marketing leaders, most organizations want to present themselves well in the marketplace.

00:04:37:02 - 00:04:53:02
Speaker 1
They want to look amazing. They want to look like a million bucks. They they want to have a great brand experience. But that has to turn into action like the people that they're trying to reach in their marketing. You know, they need to do something. And so that's where the results come in. And so so we're a beauty and results company.

00:04:53:04 - 00:04:54:11
Speaker 1
That's that's a.

00:04:54:12 - 00:05:16:16
Speaker 2
It's, a really awesome way of capturing what you all do. I think if you all interact with any of the things that you have built, and I've been fortunate to meet the teammates that you have, they kind of, push that football every single day across the line. You can tell they live and breathe it, and there's something about the culture that you've built also on that team and in that company.

00:05:16:17 - 00:05:37:18
Speaker 2
That's something really that one day, hopefully somebody will write a book on. I'm curious. Travis, like, as long as I've known you, you've always been a student of the craft, right? You you've you're always studying it. You're always figuring out how to make it better. Is that Travis, the architect engineer? The tinkerer? Is that someone who gave you that kind of insight?

00:05:37:18 - 00:05:50:23
Speaker 2
Like, where did that idea come from? That the ones and zeros in making sure the financial model isn't the only important thing, but also making sure that I'm the very best person leader and studied in it. It just seems like every time I'm talking to you, you get a new book or a new idea. Oh my.

00:05:50:23 - 00:06:19:20
Speaker 1
Gosh. Yes. Where does this come from? I think that you have these, you know, you look at the world, everybody has a lens upon which they look at the world. And I realize that one of my lenses is just the lens of continuous improvement. And, many years ago, I went through an exercise of just identifying, you know, what were the moments in my life where I was the most proud, where I felt the most achievement, the most success and fulfillment, and I identified, you know, probably 15 or 20 different, kind of experiences up to that point.

00:06:19:20 - 00:06:40:15
Speaker 1
This is back in 2015. And then part of the exercise was like, what were the contributing factors to those experiences? And about five each. So now I have 75 different contributing factors to the most fulfilling, successful achieving, you know, events in my life. And, and then I just kind of made it like, almost like a word cloud, you know, like, okay, what are all of the how do I triangulate?

00:06:40:15 - 00:07:02:15
Speaker 1
What are the commonalities between these 75 different contributing factors? And it ultimately arrived in what my core values were. And one of those was just this deep desire for continuous improvement. So I think it's just something that's been in me for a long time. And, so you kind of pair continuous improvement with being intense legal driven, which with a lot of entrepreneurs and business leaders are.

00:07:02:17 - 00:07:16:19
Speaker 1
And so it's like, okay, I have goals that I'm aiming for and continuous improvement is the best way to get there. I it was funny. I was, I've been thinking about this a lot. I mean, there's just my brain races on, like, what should I say? Because there's just so much I want to say about this.

00:07:16:19 - 00:07:17:16
Speaker 2
Encyclopedia.

00:07:17:16 - 00:07:35:11
Speaker 1
Encyclopedias you can pick from. But, you know, we have an approach at glide. That is, we call it user centered, you know, so user centered in our industry that used, or human centered is just this idea. If you're going to build something, build it for the people that that are going to use it and involve them in the beginning, the middle and the end of that process.

00:07:35:12 - 00:07:58:22
Speaker 1
Most people don't do this, you know, in our space or really for most things in general. I mean, we see that whenever you're using a product that clearly isn't working correctly. Same thing with the website, you know, so you can you can have a website that gets redesigned for a client that has a high stake in getting right, you know, so maybe their lead generation or it's an e-commerce website, it needs to produce results because it is a contingent part of the business plan.

00:07:59:00 - 00:08:19:23
Speaker 1
So you redesign the site. Everybody high fives. The site is clearly better. We all love it. And then it goes out into the wild and it performs worse. You know, and I think that that is because of the lack of user centered design. And so I've been thinking about this concept of user centered. And you almost could just boil it down to empathy, you know, and so there's empathy.

00:08:20:01 - 00:08:35:10
Speaker 1
And then the next thing for me is results being results oriented, which is really about truth. How do you get to the truth of the matter and just understanding that, you know, there's current state, where am I now? There's future desired state. Where do I want to be? There's the delta. There's the gap between. So what is the truth of that gap?

00:08:35:10 - 00:08:53:23
Speaker 1
Like, how do I turn that into something that's a plan of action. And then I realized that continuous improvement is at its essence, like it's determination, it's perseverance. It's like, okay, so I have empathy by understanding who is using my products or what I'm trying to do in life. And then I have the ability to kind of like see the truth.

00:08:53:23 - 00:09:14:21
Speaker 1
And then through resilience, I will keep going, I will iterate, I won't stop. You know, we talked about that quote earlier before the, the podcast. You know, I love Brian, or John C Maxwell. He says, you know, a person's success is directly proportional to their perception, their response to failure. And so I think if you approach anything, I was like, so I actually posted this to my team on slack, last week.

00:09:14:21 - 00:09:33:11
Speaker 1
I was like, I honestly think there's no problem in life that can't be overcome with empathy, truth, and just determination. You know? And that can apply to designing a website or running a company or a relationship, you know, you name it. And so I just it's fun to kind of get down to the essence of things. And then build back up from that.

00:09:33:11 - 00:09:52:00
Speaker 1
And so I think that's the idea of continuous improvement, in my opinion, or this idea, you're talking to the kind of like super long winded answer to your question, but like, I was like, you get down to the essence. Like, what is the truest essence of of what what drives this and then build it back toward? Okay, well, how do we apply this to marketing?

00:09:52:01 - 00:10:10:12
Speaker 1
You know, for a B2B or a nonprofit? And then how can that turn into a repeatable process that we can apply and grow in our learning for each, each client, each we're, you know, each organization, each project that accrues knowledge so that the next project, we have more information to use for that project than the next project.

00:10:10:12 - 00:10:19:14
Speaker 1
And and then we can continue to improve that. So yeah, it's just kind of a, like an earnest desire to deliver better value over time.

00:10:19:16 - 00:10:39:23
Speaker 2
I imagine that a lot of that, it seems, are rooted in that, even what you describe lacks are rooted in that understanding of what it takes to kind of get better. You said something about failure, and it kind of made me smile inside and probably out. I guess we'll see afterwards. You found a new one, and you said that the failure is the unlock, right for a lot of this.

00:10:39:23 - 00:10:49:18
Speaker 2
Like, this is actually the real way you get to validate the theory of what it is you're doing. And more likely, do you believe that it's also a place where you get the real data points to then inform you about what to do next?

00:10:49:20 - 00:11:15:04
Speaker 1
Yes, and I love that you use the word data point. I that's such a great way to think about that. When you think about failure, as long as you don't quit, it's not failure, right? It's an outcome. And outcomes give you information and information that teaches you. Am I moving closer to or further from the goal that I'm aiming for and, you know, just this concept of failing forward then is just really just a series of outcomes that give you data that help you make better decisions.

00:11:15:04 - 00:11:32:09
Speaker 1
So in a way, I heard this, and I wish I could attribute the the quote, but it's like there's there's winning, there's learning and there's losing. You know, winning is great. Everybody wants to win. But if you don't win, as long as you can learn something, then you're not losing. But if you don't win and you don't learn anything, you're absolutely losing.

00:11:32:14 - 00:11:52:03
Speaker 1
So I just decided I'm just going to go through life being a winner or a learner and just avoid the losing part altogether if I could. But, you know, I think the last thing I'll say on that is just that, you know, the pain and suffering like like pain is inevitable, but suffering isn't right. So it's just like in anything we're going to experience setbacks.

00:11:52:05 - 00:12:05:14
Speaker 1
But, you know, kind of through our attitude and the way that we look at it and the lens that we use, you know, that could either be good for us and for us for or happening to us, you know, as a negative thing. So, yeah, embrace the embrace the pain.

00:12:05:15 - 00:12:30:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, I think that's the end. Like there's a, there's a big mountain for most folks to climb on that. And I think this is probably where they look at owners, operators, entrepreneurs kind of weird like how and they almost look at it as, I had a gentleman, over the last holiday we had here, and we were talking about this idea of building staff and how it just seems so foreign and mystical, and there's a bit of a pedestal that folks have put on it.

00:12:30:20 - 00:12:52:03
Speaker 2
I think what they don't realize necessarily is that a guy like Travis, would consider himself quite dirty and messy and in the trenches, and there isn't actually a lot of fancy that he's doing. It's a lot of just blocking and tackling and trying things out. What is the mystique about operating something that you wish people had better insight to?

00:12:52:05 - 00:13:16:11
Speaker 1
How men like just how messy it can be to do new things right? You know, I think that we fall into the temptation of the status quo of like, whatever we were doing. Let's keep doing that because change is painful. You know, one kind of example of this is as an organization, our primary core service offering is that we do marketing services, primarily the building marketing websites and other marketing services.

00:13:16:11 - 00:13:37:18
Speaker 1
But we started offering strategy consulting. And usually this is just like a byproduct of of the of the work that we do, you know, for the deliverables. And so people don't scrutinize the strategic consulting because that just goes right into the deliverable of the work. So we started offering just the strategic consulting. And we just got punched in the face.

00:13:37:18 - 00:13:55:06
Speaker 1
And and we failed miserably. And and I'll say it, we even had a client where you just, you know, because we have a guarantee. And this was like, hey, look, if you're unsatisfied at any time, we'll give you all your money back, you know, which is a pretty strong guarantee. And this client was not satisfied, you know, and we were like, all right, well, it's part ways.

00:13:55:06 - 00:14:10:16
Speaker 1
And so we were kind of licking our wounds and just understanding how do we improve on this. And so I shared a story with the team. I was recently reading a book, gap and the gain, by Dan Sullivan had been Hardy, and he talks about this in his book. But there is this college, principio college.

00:14:10:16 - 00:14:32:02
Speaker 1
Right. And so they started a women's soccer team. They'd never had a soccer team before. And so they field this soccer team, and these girls are terrible. They're getting crushed. And, you know, every game it's worse. And so the coach comes up with the strategy and says, okay, you know, when we're riding home on the bus, you know, I'm gonna give you guys five minutes to, to to moan and complain and whine about, you know, how awful it was.

00:14:32:02 - 00:14:43:16
Speaker 1
And then we're going to stop, I'm going to stop a timer and we're gonna talk for ten minutes about all the positive things. And so we started applying that not only to games, but to practices where it's like, okay, you have a finite amount of time to complain, but then we're going to talk about what do we do right.

00:14:43:18 - 00:15:03:04
Speaker 1
And there was this interesting inflection point that happened halfway through the season. So they lost every single game. They played up to a point, and at some point they won and they kept winning. And in the Division Two title that year, they ended up winning the Division two title championship game. They won every single game up to that inflection point thereafter.

00:15:03:06 - 00:15:29:14
Speaker 1
And it's just this idea of, you know, intention, you know, to what you're trying to do. So I think that maybe the one thing that people don't see is a lot of times it's just like the, you know, anytime you see someone successful or winning awards or, you know, achieving an exit of, of a high multiple or whatever it is, you know, they don't see the incredible amount of pain and suffering and toil and strife that was kind of in the messy middle.

00:15:29:16 - 00:15:44:14
Speaker 1
They just kind of see the end result. And it's kind of like if you see someone who has a really great house or something like that, and sometimes maybe the judgment, but like, who knows what was the work that went into that and how long that they were not where they were. So, I mean, maybe that's not obvious.

00:15:44:14 - 00:15:50:01
Speaker 1
Maybe. Or maybe that is obvious, but that's just something that stands out to me because we were going through it, like in real time.

00:15:50:01 - 00:16:14:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, I don't think it's obvious at all. Travis. I think there's so many folks. I mean, you as small as nice car to. Must be nice to be the CEO and the owner and the founder of this thing. And I don't think folks understand what it took to get there. And I don't know that it's anything against them more than it's just really understanding that that in itself of like enduring that pain and that suffering that comes along with it and learning from it.

00:16:15:00 - 00:16:29:20
Speaker 2
I think it's sometimes just maybe it's human nature, like we don't. I thought about this quite a bit, too, like maybe it's a, a security mechanism for us not to acknowledge that. Like, that is what it takes to get to the thing. Oddly enough, I don't know about you, but it ends up becoming the thing after a while.

00:16:29:21 - 00:16:48:04
Speaker 2
Like the actually doing of the work becomes the thing. And then because you. Yeah I'm curious what you think about this. Like you reach this finish line and what do we do. We just like create the next one. And so at some point it becomes almost a weird existence just to be I mean, getting it to a goal from a business perspective is important.

00:16:48:06 - 00:16:54:02
Speaker 2
How important do you think it is to like, define that? What it is that you're doing in the moment is actually the thing?

00:16:54:04 - 00:17:05:16
Speaker 1
Well, yeah, I mean, this is especially real, real for me now that I'm 21 years into owning and running a company, you know, because.

00:17:05:17 - 00:17:07:08
Speaker 2
Does that seem long or short, by the way? I mean, it.

00:17:07:08 - 00:17:31:06
Speaker 1
Seems like a very long time for me, you know? I mean, I'll, I'll talk with people and I'll be like, hey, 21. Like, how old are you? You look pretty young to have run a company for that long. And I'm 46 and they're like, wow, okay. But yeah, most of my adult life that I've done this end, in, you know, this kind of goes into a little bit of a conversation we had before we started, which was, you know, kind of setting these goals and changing the goals.

00:17:31:06 - 00:17:49:09
Speaker 1
Well, there's a there's an inflection point last year where I was having some major friction with my VP. I love my VP. So, you know, like, she ever watches this, you know, you're you get all my love. But we were we were facing some, some major challenges, and it kind of got me to the place of, like, what do I want to do?

00:17:49:11 - 00:18:05:09
Speaker 1
And so you kind of have, the state of, like, this is kind of also the messy middle, which is you reach these places where you have to ask yourself, like, really hard questions. And I'm like, man, I don't know if I have the energy to keep going. So it's like, not even do what is the next goal going to be?

00:18:05:09 - 00:18:24:10
Speaker 1
But it's just like, do I even want to be doing this anymore? You know, and I think a lot of people would relate. And so I took a four day solo retreat into the wilderness this year. Yes. And I know you respect this. Yeah, because this is your jam. And I went to, we have a client, H-e-b Foundation, and they have 1500 acres on the Frio River.

00:18:24:10 - 00:18:26:14
Speaker 2
Oh, that place is legit or beautiful?

00:18:26:14 - 00:18:44:07
Speaker 1
Beautiful place. And, Marcus Goodyear, who is the director of communications there and marketing communications, set me up, you know, in a in a great place. And it's down in the valley. And so you, you when you drive down, down the hill into the valley, your phone stops working. So you have no access to any electronics.

00:18:44:07 - 00:19:01:08
Speaker 1
And, so I'm there for four days just asking myself. And I'm just, well, a couple of the observations that I just want to put out. You know, this maybe it would be relevant to some folks. Is that it was about on day two, and it was just solitude, like, because there was like they usually have a lot of camps there.

00:19:01:08 - 00:19:20:08
Speaker 1
But during that time of the year, it was very quiet. And I was just by myself the entire time, had no one to talk to, which was awesome and just in nature, just hearing the beautiful sounds. And I just realized how incredibly burned out I was. And I think that I've when you're an owner or you're an operator, you the buck stops with you.

00:19:20:08 - 00:19:39:09
Speaker 1
You have no alternative. You can't turn to anyone else to get the work done. There is always this like constant pressure. And so, you know, I was like, wow, I am incredibly burned. Like, owners experience burnout differently than employees. Do. You know, it is just a different, different set of experiences and you just basically suppress it, I think.

00:19:39:09 - 00:19:58:00
Speaker 1
And, and so I, I realized that I was burned out. I didn't even know. And and then the second thing was I realized I didn't have any answer to the question, what should I do? So I was the answer. The question I was asking was, do I do I try to sell this company, which, you know, 80% of people that try to sell their company don't.

00:19:58:02 - 00:20:12:10
Speaker 1
It's not it's not like a giving conclusion. If you want to sell a company that you're going to be able to or you're going to get the number you want, so do I sell? Do I not sell? I wasn't do I leave or do I not leave? Is like, do I fire this person or do you know all of these options were on the table?

00:20:12:10 - 00:20:32:11
Speaker 1
Long story short, after the fourth day of asking myself this question with zero answers, I was like, I need more information. And so I got this voucher to get access to the internet, to listen to an audiobook and get a voucher. Yeah. I was like a little coupon that you could like, connect to the they did have Wi-Fi, but you can't get to it unless you have this code.

00:20:32:13 - 00:20:55:07
Speaker 1
And it was one hour. I got like one hour of internet. So I listen to it was a really it was a call your next five moves. And I've tend to found that a lot of my big revelations, have come from mentors who are authors, not necessarily people I know, but authors. And one of the questions or kind of comments in the book was, you know, great operators, you know, lean into their challenges and it's the wrong question to ask, what should I do?

00:20:55:07 - 00:21:11:12
Speaker 1
The right question is who should I be? And so I hope that this will resonate with people that are listening. But, maybe you're at a place where you're kind of thinking about what you should do, and my humble recommendation is to forget that it's been you have right. So we we want things, but we got to do things to get those things.

00:21:11:12 - 00:21:23:05
Speaker 1
But what's the most important is who are you? Who do you want to be? You have to be before you can do. You have to do before you can have. So who do you want to be? So I was asking, what should I do? And the real question I should have been asking is who do I want to be?

00:21:23:07 - 00:21:44:23
Speaker 1
And I'm telling you, within a split second, like seconds of asking that question, who should I be? I had the answer. And, you know, so three and a half days, nothing of what should I do? 1.5 seconds of like, who should I be? I want to be a great father and I want to be a great husband. And and so that had no bearing on the business.

00:21:44:23 - 00:22:06:23
Speaker 1
Business, you know, but it was just crystal clarity for me, you know, and I think that a lot of people would benefit from this exercise of not waiting until they have a major life crisis, but just asking themselves, who do I want to be? You know, who do I want to be in? But the great thing was it was now this foundation, this like very concrete foundation that I could start using.

00:22:06:23 - 00:22:24:00
Speaker 1
So. So then I started looking at my options. I created a pro con list and I said, which of these options will make the statement of being a great father and a great husband true. And it just started eliminating options because I was like, well, if I sell this company and I go start a new company, well, first, if I sell it, that's going to be challenged.

00:22:24:00 - 00:22:37:03
Speaker 1
But if, let's say I sell it and it does well and I try to go start, how am I not going to starting from scratch means I'm going to be working my butt off, probably put in 80 hour weeks, you know, I was like, If I'm working 60 to 80 hours, am I going to be a great husband and father?

00:22:37:03 - 00:22:56:13
Speaker 1
Probably not, because I'm going to be not present, you know? So I was like, well, I just don't think that that's a viable option. And and then, you know, so I just kind of and then also, it just kind of reminded me that, like, great operators have to lean into their part of the problem. So one of the biggest insights I got from that solo retreat was like, man, I'm probably more than 50% of the problem here.

00:22:56:19 - 00:23:15:14
Speaker 1
You know, in all of the friction that was occurring that brought me to that place. And I was like, what can I learn from this by leaning back in and growing from that? If if growth is one of my core values. And so, you know, I came from that trip and it was just it was life changing for me in a positive way, really reconciled, you know, with, my key leader, my number two of the company.

00:23:15:14 - 00:23:34:03
Speaker 1
And we've had a really great relationship thereafter. And, and it's just been really powerful for me. So I think there's just like, there's, you know, before you can even set goals. My, like, my biggest recommendation would be to really just ask, like, who do I want to be? I did this exercise with my best friend. And, you know, one of the things that everybody has a different answer to this, right?

00:23:34:03 - 00:23:54:12
Speaker 1
So his answer was like, he's like one of my kind of foundational aspects of my life is I'm a connector. I love connecting people, which is totally different for me. You know, I was want to do my thing. You know, he's like, I want to be in the mix. And so everybody's going to have a different answer to that question, I think, and that will help propel whatever goals you're going to set for your business.

00:23:54:14 - 00:24:08:14
Speaker 2
How did you real quick, how did you know you were burned out? Like, what was the epiphany during that time that made you go, burned out? Like, what was the new feeling that you had that or.

00:24:08:16 - 00:24:33:23
Speaker 1
That is a great question. I don't think I thought about it. I just knew, like, it was innate. I think maybe it was just this feeling of weightlessness, you know, of just being in an environment where any option was on the table, you know, because up until that point, I think burnout occurs when you have, you know, pressure and stress and stress is kind of like stress is generally like there are things that are out of your control, right?

00:24:33:23 - 00:24:52:09
Speaker 1
Like because like there's good stress and bad stress, you know, like you put goals on yourself that you can achieve. That's good stress, bad stresses. There's a situation that I don't have the control to affect, but it's still affecting me negatively. And so I think it's like I was in a place where I was like, dude, I will, I'm willing to do the most extreme decisions, like, so everything was on the table.

00:24:52:09 - 00:25:10:17
Speaker 1
And so I think that by having everything on the table, it relieved some of the pressure of because like if I just completely walk away from everything, you know, that's an option. And now all of a sudden that's true. So it's like I just realized how much pressure I was under. Yeah. And it allowed me to kind of free me up from that.

00:25:10:17 - 00:25:26:11
Speaker 1
It's like whatever decisions I'm making are going to be in alignment with who I am and who I want to be, and they're definitely not going to make me more stressed. And so I think that you kind of just seeing that delta, that difference between, you know, what I was coming from and the desire to go to. So I think that was me.

00:25:26:14 - 00:25:51:04
Speaker 1
And then I think just just being in nature, you know, and just realizing, wow, like, I need a digital detox, man. Like I think that I've been talking about this a lot with friends. Like, I just think human beings have not evolved to handle the amount of information we process daily. You know, if you think about where we were 100 years ago or even 50 years ago or even 30 years ago to now, we haven't become fundamentally different yet.

00:25:51:04 - 00:26:09:10
Speaker 1
The amount of information we process on a daily basis has exponentially increased. Yeah. And so I think that that was also part of the burnout was just like just that like very tactical fundamental, like the amount of physical, like, you know, digital information that's coming at me on a daily basis. So getting away from that was just I think, I think I would like to do this like once a quarter.

00:26:09:16 - 00:26:26:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, you have to I think there's so much in there that, is the n log and that I do think when it comes to information processing, one of the conversations I have often with leaders is like, they're kind of like taking an inventory of what they have is do you, do you start your day by deciding what you're not going to do?

00:26:26:00 - 00:26:41:20
Speaker 2
Because if you don't, you might consider that because it's actually one of the things that you'll find very quickly. You can get to a little more of not only your zone of genius, but you'll find is that the things that you feel like you're neglecting are actually the things that your team will just start to be more empowered by if you just let them go.

00:26:41:22 - 00:26:42:05
Speaker 2
Right.

00:26:42:08 - 00:26:55:10
Speaker 1
So tell me about this. Like, because I'm very intrigued. Is this like, areas of the business, is this specific projects? Is this like anything's on the table? Like, how do you go about that process? Like, how would I use that on a daily basis?

00:26:55:10 - 00:27:18:06
Speaker 2
So in a very tactical way, open up your calendar for that day and decide which meeting that you're just going to cancel and not necessarily cancel the meeting, one that you're just not going to attend. Right. And you have to be it's not like to go out there and just completely put a bullet in that meeting. But what I am saying is look at your schedule and go, I actually have I will add zero value to that meeting, right?

00:27:18:06 - 00:27:30:03
Speaker 2
And it might make me feel good because it feels like the leader is there and everything is. But the end of the day, all these people are going to talk about it, and Jim is going to come to me and tell me what happened and give me the 1 or 2 decision points I need to make. I don't need to be at that meeting.

00:27:30:05 - 00:27:50:00
Speaker 2
So that's like a very tactical way of looking at it. And you think about that, it starts to open up your free time. We can go way down the rabbit hole. Some folks, me, they will tell me. Yeah, but I just feel like it's my job to be there. I say, your job is to the leader. Is the is the is the person who's supposed to have eyes on the horizon, making sure that you continue to head the way that you need to head.

00:27:50:00 - 00:27:50:18
Speaker 1
So good.

00:27:50:18 - 00:28:02:20
Speaker 2
And so if you're like in there rowing, it feels good. You're sweating with the team and all that stuff, but then everybody comes up from the bottom and they go, dude, we're off course. Yeah, yeah. Event. Do you feel good that you sweated with the team for a little bit?

00:28:02:23 - 00:28:20:12
Speaker 1
Now I'm in. I'm like, I'm just thinking about like all the times that I've gone into things that I shouldn't be. You know, I'm reading a book right now by Anthony Demello. Call it awareness is really good. And one of the concepts he had in his book was like one of the greatest tragedies is just saying, yes, the things that you don't want to do.

00:28:20:14 - 00:28:45:03
Speaker 1
Like he's like, life is hard enough doing the stuff that you do want to do. Yeah. You know, like and I wish I could remember the passage in this book, but, you know, he's such a great storyteller and but I just but it it genuinely inspired me in that moment. It was like some little like level was unlocked, like I was I had recently kind of, like, unofficially, offered to join the board of a nonprofit.

00:28:45:03 - 00:29:06:11
Speaker 1
And, at the time, I wasn't sure, you know, if it would be the right decision to make. And through a series of circumstances, I realized that it probably wouldn't be. But then I was already kind of like far enough along where, like, it would feel a little awkward to pull out. And after reading that, I was just like, I'm going to be resolute, you know, like on the things that I don't want to do that won't bring me joy.

00:29:06:11 - 00:29:24:04
Speaker 1
That would be a commitment, especially a long term commitment, you know? And so I just I fully resonate with that. Like, you know, giving, giving a leader full permission to be like, do I add value to this meeting? Do I add value to this project? Do I add value to this initiative and just be like, I'm just going to take myself out of that?

00:29:24:06 - 00:29:46:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's it's it's a hard thing because there is this like we're all especially as leaders, like you're born with this born, you have this, like, innate kind of. And it's not a real gift, but it's it's a real gift, but it's one that shouldn't be there. Yeah. There's guilt that you're not, like supporting your team. And I do think the when I find folks have a hard time kind of crossing that chasm of like doing just even the one meeting that week, even the week.

00:29:46:20 - 00:29:50:00
Speaker 2
Don't pick the day if if it's easier, just pick the meeting that week that you're not going to go to.

00:29:50:00 - 00:30:16:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think like a like maybe that's the baby step. You know, for someone, you know, they're not quite ready to start dropping the ax on a daily basis. Like, yeah, let's just do it once a week. Right. You know, it's like let's just look out over the horizon of the week and see, you know, hey, what? You know, what does not deserve, you know, my time and and I mean, I think that a lot of entrepreneurs, through no fault of their own, are generally overoptimistic on what they can achieve.

00:30:16:17 - 00:30:42:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, and, and so they, they tend to overcommit. I one of my I had a good friend many years ago gave me a backhanded compliment. He said, Travis, sometimes you you promised 150% and you deliver 120. And and it was like it was like, you know, I don't know if I should be happy or sad that he said that, you know, like I'm delivering 120, but like, but I think that entrepreneurs tend to do that and that that is no different in their time when they commit to that.

00:30:42:03 - 00:30:55:01
Speaker 1
I forgot I was a Bill gates that said, you know, a lot of people underestimate, what they can get done in in ten years, but overestimate what they get done in one. You know, and it's like we I think we do that on any time scale. Really.

00:30:55:06 - 00:31:05:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, I think that as you're thinking about those things and like, I think you're at the baby step of a week is probably a good thing to do. The the other framework that might be helpful is, do you have a favorite go to kind of meeting?

00:31:05:21 - 00:31:11:12
Speaker 1
You know, I'm a big fan of, like, ambient, like, you know, explosions in the Sky.

00:31:11:13 - 00:31:17:16
Speaker 2
Oh, really? Okay, okay. Give me, like, a, like an artist that you grew up with. And you always enjoy listening to.

00:31:17:18 - 00:31:23:07
Speaker 1
You know, I was a big fan, especially in high school, like Dave Matthews. Okay, Guster, some of these, you know, kind of old school.

00:31:23:08 - 00:31:37:13
Speaker 2
Oh, this is perfect. Yeah. Dave Matthews puts on a good show. That way I think about folks is like, as the leader of an organization. Right. And take away that the the grandiose ness of it like not the fame but just like the fact that people are showing up and there's a product out there because the leader of the earth.

00:31:37:13 - 00:31:54:06
Speaker 2
So if if Dave, if you found out as a listener, a loyal fan of Dave Matthews, that he stopped going to the logistics meetings that coordinated their tour busses, would you be upset about that if you got to still listen to him on the radio? No, of course not. Not at all. It's it's the same thing with leadership.

00:31:54:06 - 00:32:12:09
Speaker 2
It's like. It's like if you find the gifts that you are particularly great at, your team is actually not also going to be very upset there as long as you're there in the moments in the times and you need to be there, there, okay. Also doing the other things and it's some of those things that we get, I'm sure there's a moment Dave Matthews goes, like, I should probably be on the tour bus, meaning like you don't need to be on the tour.

00:32:12:12 - 00:32:33:07
Speaker 1
No, no, no. And this is just in alignment with, I think, a lot of, the thinking right now. I mean, you see, Pat Lindsay on his new book, The Areas of Genius. Right? He's talking a lot about this. Dan Sullivan's ten acts is easier than two acts. Just this concept of ten x thinking, you know, ten x thinking in his framework is really where are you?

00:32:33:07 - 00:32:54:09
Speaker 1
Where is your 20%? Right. Like so it's your thousand dollar an hour work, right? Like there is there are there. If you take a business finance, administration, sales, marketing operations like you cannot be, you know, 100% an expert at each of these areas, right? I mean, most entrepreneurs just don't even have the integrator bone, right? They're not the detail oriented person.

00:32:54:09 - 00:33:16:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. They cast the vision. They have the big relationships. They're the one that are charismatically evangelizing the mission and the vision and the values. And so but then that person also has to run the book, so it's not possible. You know, I ran the books for my company for almost 15 years. And, I mean, the second I handed that off, like I never looked back, I did not be like, oh, well, I kind of missed.

00:33:16:16 - 00:33:28:18
Speaker 1
No, no, no. Yeah. Like I like the rest of my life. I will never touch that, you know, like, hopefully. But, so, you know, I think that's a fantastic approach. And if you get a chance, I read Buy Back Your Time by Dean Martel.

00:33:28:18 - 00:33:29:07
Speaker 2
I have not read it.

00:33:29:09 - 00:33:43:17
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. So this is the same concept, right. So he he has a laddering approach, right. You know, so it's like like it inspired me deeply. So in fact, as soon as I got done reading that book, I hired my first executive assistant. Like, she actually helped. I think, schedule, schedule this.

00:33:43:17 - 00:33:44:03
Speaker 2
Whole thing.

00:33:44:06 - 00:34:02:20
Speaker 1
You know? So he he's like, if you're an entrepreneur and you, and you don't have an executive assistant, you're costing your company money. So his whole theory is before you do anything else in terms of like where you review your time. He has a whole quadrant process for how you evaluate your time and prioritize what you should be doing and not should be doing, you know, your high value activities.

00:34:02:20 - 00:34:25:22
Speaker 1
And so it's a really cool process. But he's like, get, get someone to take over your calendar and your inbox. And so I read this and I had read that in sequence with, you know, this concept of, of genius. And it was like a deer in the headlights moment for me. I was like, I spend ten hours a week just scheduling meetings, like, and I don't think I'm different than any other entrepreneur right now.

00:34:25:22 - 00:34:26:03
Speaker 2
I think.

00:34:26:03 - 00:34:55:14
Speaker 1
You're right. And so, so I, I hired an EAA for the first time in my life, and, and I'm on a 90 day trial to kind of see, is this going to benefit my life? And it's interesting. I'm it's mixed for me. Mixed results. Where, you know. Okay, well, the the the benefit of this has to overcome the complexity of a whole nother human being in my life, you know, that has their own inclinations and availability and, you know, skill sets, with what is the productive gain that I've gotten out of this?

00:34:55:14 - 00:35:08:06
Speaker 1
And so it's, it's a little bit of a mixed bag for me, but I think that I'm not going to give up on trying. But yeah, but he talks about that. So he's like, okay, the first step is you got to you got to kind of get out of the, the, the calendar to the inbox. And then it's the administration.

00:35:08:08 - 00:35:22:17
Speaker 1
He talks about sales, he talks about sales, marketing. He actually recommends sales be like the last role you give, give out, which for me is a person a lot of owners of like especially in our space, you know, sales is a big component of what I do. But his theory is that's the hardest job to replace.

00:35:22:17 - 00:35:41:11
Speaker 1
And so you kind of ladder your way up. And obviously having marketing where you have a consistent marketing machine that's generating, you know, visibility and opportunity, you know, that's important if you can offload that and then eventually leadership, that's the last ladder. That's the part of the ladder where, you know, you have you have created a leadership team.

00:35:41:13 - 00:35:59:19
Speaker 1
And, you know, we've talked a lot about us, but the US is it same framework, right. You know, you create a structure, an accountability chart. And I mean, you know, the same thing with, Michael Gerber. You know, he talks about this, you know, you create an organizational chart, you put your name in all the slots, and you just start removing yourself from the area that you don't want to be in.

00:35:59:21 - 00:36:20:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, I think it's it's it's one of those unlocks that if you give it enough time, it's probably like a great physical regimen or some, craft you're pursuing. Like it kind of sex for a little while. Hey, this thing is supposed to help me get better. I'm sure. Just like with your AA, you're like, what is in some ways feels like I've got more time, more anxiety, because that email got sent right.

00:36:20:06 - 00:36:33:23
Speaker 2
I would never have said it that way. But I imagine at some point as that calibration happening gets better. I want to go back real quick. You just got stuck in my brain, man, so you gotta help me out here. You were talking about the B part at that. And like what? All who I don't want to be.

00:36:34:01 - 00:37:04:18
Speaker 2
And one thing I can't get out of my head after you said that was good father. Good husband. Right? Great father, great husband. Engage. Father, engage has been just kind of. Yeah. How do you reconcile if that becomes your bass drum? Like, how do you reconcile that with not betraying the entire. Livelihood of all these people who work with him for you there at the company and all the customers and all that stuff, do you see that as being at odds with each other, or do you see that your B actually being the thing that enables that to be better?

00:37:04:20 - 00:37:26:15
Speaker 1
I think it's got to be integrated, you know, I mean, you know, integrity is is wholeness, right. And, you know, Brené Brown talks a lot about wholehearted living, you know, and her whole like, shame and research and worthiness and all the stuff that she does. But I think wholehearted would be you have to integrate your life through. There's a long time where I looked at my personal life, and my professional life is a duality.

00:37:26:19 - 00:37:43:17
Speaker 1
In fact, I even looked at like how I serve and how I give as okay, well, I work over here to make money and then I serve over here to give and kind of use my life to benefit others. And it was, it wasn't. It was. It took me about ten years in my professional career before I realized that those should be one in the same.

00:37:43:19 - 00:38:08:23
Speaker 1
And it was, you know, Simon Sinek, start with y that whole talk. So just kind of go into now. Absolutely. I think that in fact, I would almost postulate that, you know, more leading and modeling a role of like being a great father and great husband is a part of who I am as a person, because think about your employees like so if you're a leader at a company or you're an owner or both, and then you have employees, wouldn't you want them to have wholehearted, integrated lives?

00:38:08:23 - 00:38:36:07
Speaker 1
Like what would you want them to just show up at work as a robot doing the work? Maybe they're really good at doing the work, but then at the detriment of their personal be like, what? What? Maybe this person wants to be a professional violin player or have a side job or whatever they want to do. It's like, wouldn't you rather have people that that are coming to work as a whole person and that you, I would hope, as a leader, want them to be a whole person living their life to the best and like achieving their highest actualization of their.

00:38:36:09 - 00:39:03:16
Speaker 1
And so I think that to model that is important. Right. You know, so I think that for me, it absolutely has to be integrated and they have to support each other because it's not sustainable. Otherwise. Right. Yeah. Because I think that's the thing. Right. Like if I let's say I get clear about my y or my, my, my, my b statements which, which you know, for me, one of my B statements, I actually write these down every day and have for, you know, seven years, you know, like some of my most primary like one of my B statements is I want to be the most encouraging person that I can be.

00:39:03:18 - 00:39:21:20
Speaker 1
And, you know, another is I want to be in the best health of my life, you know, because I feel like health is a force multiplier. Another B statement for me is that, in addition to being a great father and husband, I want to be a visionary leader in a highly, highly successful entrepreneur. So these things, I want these things to be true.

00:39:21:22 - 00:39:39:07
Speaker 1
And it's like, if they're not true, then I feel like I'm driving. I'm like driving the you know, the plane into the ground or something like that. Like at some point it's going to crash. And who who does that help? Right. In fact, these B statements, you know, I've written down, for so many years and then they, they change and but every.

00:39:39:07 - 00:39:40:11
Speaker 2
Morning, you.

00:39:40:13 - 00:39:56:12
Speaker 1
See, I have I have stacks and stacks. This was this morning. I said good handwriting. I'm thankful for daily. I call it daily inspo, which I used to call it affirmations, but, you know, right here, you know, I'm a great husband and father, you know, and so and I today, I didn't write down my goals because I was in a hurry coming in here.

00:39:56:12 - 00:40:00:13
Speaker 1
But, you know, write down my goals every day to, you know, but.

00:40:00:14 - 00:40:01:05
Speaker 2
It's awesome.

00:40:01:05 - 00:40:21:06
Speaker 1
But but but these these have an impact. I mean, I can't tell you how many times. So, you know, think about this. You know, 80% of the year, so hundreds and hundreds of times a year for going on a decade now or almost a decade. And I'll write down, I'm the most encouraging person I can be, and I'll stop and I'll go text my best friend, say, and I love you, your great friend, or my wife or something.

00:40:21:06 - 00:40:46:23
Speaker 1
I love you every day. But like, it's hard not to want to go do something like that. When you write down a statement like this. Or the other thing that happens is I had injured my shoulder was very unhealthy. Because I had just I kind of got discouraged. I went through physical therapy for 12 weeks, twice, and I couldn't fix it was an impingement, and I couldn't do all of the normal stuff that I would do, and I so I got really discouraged and I stopped, exercised almost an entire year, and I so I was very out of shape, the most out of shape I'd been.

00:40:47:01 - 00:41:06:03
Speaker 1
And I was writing down every day during that process. I'm I'm the healthiest. I'm, I'm, I'm in the best shape of my life. I was like this dissonance, like this massive dissonance. But I think that writing it down kept the like. It was almost like it kept that idea alive, so that at some point I would overcome and get back to that place.

00:41:06:03 - 00:41:22:22
Speaker 1
And now I can genuinely say, this year, my best friend and I've been doing these health challenges all year, and we are I'm in the best shape I've been in my life, or at least, you know, in in since I was, like, running track in college. You know, maybe I don't know if I'm better shape than that, but, but another one to, like, writing down.

00:41:22:22 - 00:41:38:02
Speaker 1
I'm a visionary leader and highly successful. Sure. I remember one year I was watching profitability, the company. It was going down. We had, had a really great year. We hired, we actually doubled the number of employees at the company. At the time. We were small, about 15 folks. We had about six employees. They hired like 6 or 7 more.

00:41:38:07 - 00:42:10:02
Speaker 1
So it's like any organization doubling your employees, whether it's 2050 or 100, is is a meaningful change. Yeah. Meaningful change. And, so in just for a young leader, or, you know, younger leader, and but we the profitability, I was just consistently going down and we were also experiencing the, the, the struggles of, you know, how do you maintain a culture when you have, when you have 50% of the people are brand new and they haven't been like slowly indoctrinated into the values.

00:42:10:02 - 00:42:25:04
Speaker 1
And and then you have, you know, this mix of, you know, hiring is never 100% right. You know, it might be 50, 50, half the time. And, you know, you get you get it right sometimes you don't. And so then, here I am writing down. I'm the most highly, you know, I'm I'm a visionary leader and a highly successful entrepreneur.

00:42:25:04 - 00:42:41:11
Speaker 1
And I'm watching things kind of. And that's where you just kind of say, I like, well, if I am this, then what am I going to do about this? Yeah. And so this statement literally inspired me. One day I just stopped and said, okay, we got to make bold decisions. And we made some really big changes. You know, we had to let go some people, which was very difficult.

00:42:41:13 - 00:43:11:10
Speaker 1
We had to move. We had to ask some people that we'd elevated up out of very difficult challenges, difficult positions, to come back into those positions, you know, and it was just a sequence of bold decisions that really got us back on track. And I honestly attribute it to writing down, you know, if I'm a highly successful entrepreneur, then I got to make decisions that highly successful entrepreneurs make, you know, and, and I got to put myself in positions to learn from other highly successful entrepreneurs so that I continue to grow.

00:43:11:12 - 00:43:14:22
Speaker 1
So that's just a I don't know, that was a side story or not.

00:43:14:23 - 00:43:15:20
Speaker 2
No. Great story.

00:43:15:20 - 00:43:17:08
Speaker 1
But it relates to the B statements, you.

00:43:17:08 - 00:43:39:07
Speaker 2
Know. Yes. That accountability I see what you mean. No, it's kind of the the grounding rod that gets you back to being back on course. I think that's not something that you think about. And when I, when I think about I was thinking a lot of inventory here just recently just to kind of about all of the cool things and all the, the big things and all the busy things and all the things that are happening.

00:43:39:09 - 00:44:10:11
Speaker 2
What's interesting is the human mind and heart is so incredible. And at the same time, we also don't recognize, just like the average person, even a non-owner non entrepreneur, how many things they are juggling all at once and just putting in. I kind of look at it. I tell my wife it's, I call it you can call it, Social Credit or energy credits or whatever, but if you're like dishing out these credits to all the little things that you're doing and working on, it's amazing how some people are still walking every single day, like keeping these things moving.

00:44:10:13 - 00:44:29:06
Speaker 2
And I think showing those statements there remind me how important it is to have these grounding rods that, like, immediately make it clear on where you're pushing these credits. Yeah, right. And like, what's the tug thing that's going to like keep you moving the way that you need to go? It's like it's fascinating. And I think it's one that it probably isn't an easy thing to kind of move through.

00:44:29:08 - 00:44:33:19
Speaker 2
I mean, they're almost like no statements. Have they been the same for ten years, too?

00:44:33:19 - 00:44:52:21
Speaker 1
They, they've evolved. But in, in they change order. They evolve. You know, I add or remove sometimes I simplify, but that's that basic set has been gone for about 3 to 5 years. Yeah, something like that. But you know, it's like I love what you said about energy. I was at, the CEO summit for Conscious Capitalism.

00:44:52:21 - 00:45:10:04
Speaker 1
So conscious capitalism, great organization. They had the big summit. There's about 250 leaders came in. And I'm racking my brain on the speaker. He's an author of a book, but I haven't I haven't read the book yet. But he talked about, you know, just was it the second law of thermodynamics? And energy cannot be created or destroyed. So when you're giving out energy, you're losing.

00:45:10:04 - 00:45:31:06
Speaker 1
It's it's going somewhere you don't have like an infinite amount of energy. So you're absolutely right. It's just like we have a finite amount of energy and it's going places, you know, and where are you putting it? And I do think that the course correction, I can't remember the book I read, but it was just to say this, like when you're sale, if you're sailing a boat across the Atlantic, you're never on a perfect straight line, right?

00:45:31:06 - 00:45:48:12
Speaker 1
You're always kind of like course correcting back, you know? And so I think that it's just like, to me this is a course correction. And, you know, and there are days when I'm having a pity party, you know, like, because things are having your five minutes. Yeah. I had a failure, you know, I, I lost the sale.

00:45:48:12 - 00:46:05:12
Speaker 1
You know, a big decision didn't go my way. And here I am writing down, you know, I'm the most encouraging person that I can be. I don't feel very encouraging at that moment, you know, so. But I think that so it's just the reality of like, this is who I this is this is the mental picture of who I want to be, you know?

00:46:05:12 - 00:46:23:14
Speaker 1
And I think that's important. I, I think it's almost from the standpoint for there's a long time where I thought about this is actually inspiration for Michael Gerber, who talks about your primary aim in life. And that was a huge inspiration for me. So these statements were actually a distillation of a list I created when I read that book back when I first started my company.

00:46:23:16 - 00:46:33:17
Speaker 1
In fact, if you go Google, I don't know if anyone's like watching this on their computer, but whenever this goes out. But if you go Google, what is my primary aim in life? My humble article is number one for like ten years.

00:46:33:17 - 00:46:34:06
Speaker 2
Oh really?

00:46:34:10 - 00:46:50:21
Speaker 1
You know, for primary aim in life, my primary aim in life. What is my primary aim in life? Because I, I read that book, Michael Gerber's E-myth, and then I wrote down this list of ten things that like, these are my primary aims in life. It was ten things in the top five is kind of what eventually made it into this view statements.

00:46:50:23 - 00:46:55:01
Speaker 1
And, and so, yeah. So that's kind of the backstory behind it.

00:46:55:01 - 00:47:14:20
Speaker 2
No, it's cool man. Well, tell me about this. I, the personal value statements and what kind of the inspiration and the grounding and the B statements. I know how important they are personally. When you think about values in a company, right. Or when you think about, and talking to you before I know what you're going to say, you don't.

00:47:14:22 - 00:47:16:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. You don't make values. Right.

00:47:16:10 - 00:47:17:14
Speaker 1
There's a whole topic. Yeah, there's.

00:47:17:14 - 00:47:40:12
Speaker 2
A whole topic. But 11 I mean, it's an old topic that's always relevant. What do they call it, a classic. Yeah. First, what would you tell folks the mistake or the misunderstanding about values. Kind of similar to like the life of an operator and an owner. I'll start with saying that I believe most folks that I talk to think that values are nice to have, right?

00:47:40:12 - 00:47:50:06
Speaker 2
And maybe when we grow, or maybe we get a little further along, maybe when we start making some cash, we can get that ping pong table in and we can kind of get some cool little cards made.

00:47:50:06 - 00:47:51:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, put a poster on the wall.

00:47:51:06 - 00:48:00:21
Speaker 2
Poster on the wall, and then we get some values and then we can talk about them. Just like if you had to quickly course correct that statement, what would you say about values in their importance or the lack thereof?

00:48:00:22 - 00:48:20:23
Speaker 1
Be concise. Yeah. Because this is like, yeah, like do you have 90 minutes? But the absolute first thing is that, you know, I do think that your personality and your passion as an operator or potential operator coming in, you know, plays into this. But, yeah, I mean, the very first thing is you don't create value. So if you're coming in as an operator saying you're going to take over business.

00:48:20:23 - 00:48:38:14
Speaker 1
And so I go and install this set of core values. That's just not how you do it. You will fail, you know. And Palin Sony talks a lot about this. There's there's all these other types of values that aren't core values. There's aspirational value. So I would say if you're coming in as an operator and you say, okay, here's the set of values that I'm gonna install.

00:48:38:16 - 00:48:59:08
Speaker 1
Those are aspirations. Those aren't core values. And then secondly, there are hidden values. There are things that, that exist in the organization that they probably aren't that great. Like it might be. Wow, this organization only hires young people. You know, this is a value that they've put on, you know, from a hiring perspective of youth versus you know, being being less discriminatory or whatever.

00:48:59:08 - 00:49:24:15
Speaker 1
So you have you have aspirational values of hidden values, and they have table stakes values. Right. So table stakes are like if you're an organization that serves people and you come in and say, okay, I'm going to install this core value of customer service or that. Yeah. So what like business bro. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's 101 for like staying in business you know, so you cannot use that as a core value unless like someone left their code and you'll drive 100 miles in the rain, you know, to give it back to them for free.

00:49:24:15 - 00:49:46:05
Speaker 1
Then, you know, maybe you can say you have customer service services, a value so, you know, but then other than that, you know, I think that those are probably the fundamentals of like the mistakes that people make. And as this kind of starts to kind of come into our culture, I would say values almost usurps purpose in a way, because it is the lens that you look through.

00:49:46:05 - 00:50:02:03
Speaker 1
I mean, purpose is the is the foundation, and I think the other thing maybe, I don't know, this is a segue, but I think a lot of people interchange purpose, vision and mission, you know, as being the same thing. But they're all very different, right? You know, purpose is the foundation that you spring from, of why you exist.

00:50:02:03 - 00:50:21:18
Speaker 1
Like this is why our organization exists in an aspect. There is a mission to that. But mission is actually how you enact and what you what you go do from the purpose, you know, and it's the day to day, right? And then vision is okay. Someday in the future, from our purpose through our mission, the vision will become a reality, you know?

00:50:21:18 - 00:50:42:01
Speaker 1
And so that is like the journey that you're on. So purpose is the foundation. Mission is the journey that you're on. And vision is the destination that you arrive at. And values are the course correctors all along that way and helping you make decisions, helping you hire or fire, helping you, rewarding recognize, helping you decide new directions or take away all directions.

00:50:42:01 - 00:50:48:13
Speaker 1
The values are going to be the things that you use to determine the decision. So I don't know if that helps, but.

00:50:48:15 - 00:51:00:01
Speaker 2
I'll give me an example of like, what's the value y'all have that in a decision you just maybe recently had to make, and you use the value to determine.

00:51:00:02 - 00:51:02:02
Speaker 1
I have one that happened this morning.

00:51:02:02 - 00:51:03:07
Speaker 2
Okay.

00:51:03:09 - 00:51:04:03
Speaker 1
So to show up.

00:51:04:03 - 00:51:06:16
Speaker 2
Here or not. Yeah. I'm gonna go.

00:51:06:18 - 00:51:32:07
Speaker 1
Well, so, we have a new client. We really like them. The land institute, they're amazing organization. They're focusing on just perennial culture, perennial agriculture and just how to use, how to change the way the world grows food so that it's sustainable. Because right now it is very unsustainable. Great organization. They they have a leadership conference that's they're trying to raise a quarter of a million or a quarter of $1 billion to $250 million in the next, probably like 5 to 10 years.

00:51:32:09 - 00:51:50:22
Speaker 1
And so we're doing it a strategy, engage it with them, you know, that's focused on digital. It's going really well. And but they mentioned in passing that they have a leadership conference happening in February. They said, hey, you know, maybe you could come. And I said, I would love to go. So, a way that we use values was we have our cornerstone value, our primary value.

00:51:50:22 - 00:52:07:10
Speaker 1
And this primary value was not created. We looked at our company and we said, who are the people that that we love and that have that have been with us and that are in leadership that are kicking butt? And what do they look like? How do they talk? How do they act in building meaningful relationships? Was the most important value that connected with the most people at our company?

00:52:07:10 - 00:52:32:20
Speaker 1
And it's a core value. And so, I came to the team and said, I'd really like to send the team to this, to this leadership conference. And it has nothing to do with the work. It's just to build relationships. It's going to cost us a decent amount of money to fly all these people from different places. And in our leadership meeting we said, well, I just think we should do it because we have our number one core value is building meaningful relationships, and this is going to allow us to build meaningful relationships.

00:52:32:22 - 00:52:52:07
Speaker 1
You know, with the with this client. And so it's just a no brainer, even though it will take away profit from the company to send all these people there. And, you know, in a color or, you know, in another example, same thing. We were deciding, each year we, we kind of bring everyone in for an annual team meeting and we decide who we're going to bring in.

00:52:52:09 - 00:53:09:11
Speaker 1
Same thing. Right? There's like, this is a significant cost. I mean, it could be 20 or $30,000 to kind of fly all these people into to, to pay for all of the budget and think the lodging and depending on the financials for the year or whatever. And we just always decide, well, it doesn't matter how well we've done this year, this is a this is a priority.

00:53:09:11 - 00:53:19:03
Speaker 1
And we we know that it's going to make our team grow in relationship. And so we're going to do it. So that would be an example of like a clear value aligning with a clear decision.

00:53:19:08 - 00:53:27:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. Do you when you say it sounds like that it's important to make sure that you identify those core values correctly.

00:53:27:04 - 00:53:27:19
Speaker 1
Absolutely.

00:53:27:19 - 00:53:47:02
Speaker 2
Otherwise you'd go astray. You make a bunch of decisions, you go, this is my values. And you go, yeah, but is it what's, I know there's an entire process and heck, I know you teach a master class on this, but when you think about maybe just some fundamentals, when folks are, like sitting where they're at right now trying to decide, okay, what is what are my core values?

00:53:47:04 - 00:54:10:08
Speaker 1
That's an interesting concept. I've thought about this a lot, like, well, what if you are just starting your company? What if you're a solo entrepreneur by yourself and you know there is always going to be an aspirational aspect to this? I am a passionate values enthusiast. Like I read all the books about it. I've, I've, you know, just thought about this five Ways from Sunday.

00:54:10:10 - 00:54:27:16
Speaker 1
And it's funny because I probably had, you know, five different versions of values of glide over 20 years before we codified the version we had, because I was doing it by myself. And so I think that it is difficult, when you're by yourself, because it's a little bit of it is like, well, what do I care about most?

00:54:27:18 - 00:54:48:13
Speaker 1
And so I think that the process that I would take if I was by myself or if I had a small team, was to meet together to really define and look at the people and just describe these people. So if it's a small team, you can do this. In fact, when we when we codified our values, which have become the values we've been using for years, we only had four people on our leadership team, you know, so it was a small leadership team.

00:54:48:15 - 00:55:07:00
Speaker 1
But even with four people, imagine four people describing each of those people, you know, with, you know, 3 to 5 or 5 to 7 words each, you're still going to get enough data points to kind of like, triangulate, like who we are as an organization and what we believe. So I think the process would definitely be different if you're by yourself.

00:55:07:00 - 00:55:25:18
Speaker 1
I think that if I was by myself, I would I would be reticent to not consider, like, the people I'm serving. Like, what what what what are the need in the marketplace? Because if I'm just kind of operating in a, in a vacuum of like, okay, this is what I think is important. You know, maybe you're maybe that will or not resonate, you know, with the target market.

00:55:25:18 - 00:55:40:15
Speaker 1
But, I mean, at the end of the day, you are who you are. And I think that's the concept of of uncovering versus creating is that you just have to acknowledge, you know, like maybe you're like, I'm a no bullshit person and I'm always going to tell you 100% what I'm thinking. Even if you don't like it, you know?

00:55:40:15 - 00:55:59:23
Speaker 1
So that would be a value, right? Like, so you're bringing your personality into the fray. But what I, what I'm suggesting is that over time, you might find that if you're just using your values alone and you're not incorporating others, that that might not resonate over the long term. You know, it might not be scalable, as you grow.

00:55:59:23 - 00:56:16:15
Speaker 1
And so I think one example for me would be I used to have a value of professionalism, of like perfection, you know, like excellence and like had to be perfect. But I think that that was replaced with better every day, you know, which is like, I don't actually want it to be perfect. Like perfection is the death of everything.

00:56:16:15 - 00:56:37:10
Speaker 1
Like, you know, it's like I would rather iterate to perfection, you know? And so, you know, to me that is a much better value. And it's just an example of adaptability. So you got to start somewhere, but just be ready to be able to change it, you know, over time. And I would say not change it. Like you don't want to like changing core values, but you want to be incorporating more people over time and just reevaluating.

00:56:37:10 - 00:56:55:08
Speaker 1
So a good example and I'll end with this is, a couple of years ago, we realized one of our core values was burning people out. So another example of values too is, is they're not good or bad, they just are. And so you can have a value of open mindedness, but that means you also have to be open minded to negative things, which, you know, maybe you're maybe it would not be a good thing.

00:56:55:08 - 00:57:14:14
Speaker 1
So one of our values delivered faithfully was burning people out. So like people are like, okay, well, I have to deliver faithfully, even if I'm sick, even if my mom's in the hospital, I'm going to work until whatever hour of the night I'm going to put in too many hours. And so we just kind of looked at this core value, especially during the pandemic, in this poly crisis we're in where there's like, you know, a major crisis is happening all over the place.

00:57:14:16 - 00:57:35:18
Speaker 1
And I think we just identified, well, we care a lot about work life balance. We care a lot about taking care of our people. We have all kinds of policies like the four day workweek, unlimited time off, you know, sending people away, you know, like we we did this crazy thing, we piloted, deleting every email that comes into a person's inbox when they're on a vacation for more than, more than ten days.

00:57:35:20 - 00:57:38:08
Speaker 2
Like, if you leave for ten days when you come back, you're at zero.

00:57:38:09 - 00:57:55:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. Because. Because people. Because if you do the research, a lot of people don't take vacations because they're too stressed out about the work they're going to get when they get back. And so we created an entire policy where we have a coverage team. So everyone on that team devise out the work that needs to be done while that person's gone.

00:57:55:16 - 00:58:10:00
Speaker 1
So when they get back, it's an empty slate and they can start fresh. That's a pretty cool idea, you know? And I think that, you know, more people should be doing this. So not only is it your inbox, but it's also like the task list. Right. So we just looked at this and we said, well, we care a lot.

00:58:10:04 - 00:58:29:05
Speaker 1
And then we realized that we had a lot of people that love to travel. And so I proposed that we that we had a new core value and it was to offset deliver faithfully. We called it enjoy the journey. And so when I say like be adaptable to core values, I'm not saying like you should like, stop thinking something's important.

00:58:29:05 - 00:58:48:03
Speaker 1
I think you should just acknowledge what is happening in our organization and in the lens upon which we make decisions. And one of those lenses was, we want to enjoy the journey of life. We want to work, to live and not live to work. We've created all of these structures to protect people that are high performers. We don't need to worry about them working hard.

00:58:48:03 - 00:59:00:01
Speaker 1
We need to worry about them getting burned out. And so this this core value enjoyed. The journey just became clear and evident to us. And we named it and we celebrated it. And now it's one of our value. We have five now instead of four.

00:59:00:03 - 00:59:11:08
Speaker 2
It's kind of like these. The ability for them to kind of work at odds with each other keeps things perfectly balanced, right? When you have that healthy tension and kind of makes you I mean, it's life. It makes you arrive at the right spot.

00:59:11:09 - 00:59:30:22
Speaker 1
Absolutely. You know, and the same thing with Better day and love what you do, which is two of our other values. Those are actually complementary and two sides of the same coin in my opinion. It starts with loving what you do, but it is impossible to not get better at something if you love. If you love what you do, you will always get better because you just, you know you will just do it by default.

00:59:30:23 - 00:59:46:09
Speaker 1
You know, if you're a skateboarder and you love to skateboard, eventually you're going to be doing tricks that other people can't do. Yeah, right. So, you know, that is an interesting pair that we created. So I yeah, hopefully some of that there's some nuggets in there for core values and I'll, I'll even throw this out to you.

00:59:46:09 - 00:59:59:14
Speaker 1
If anyone is listening to this they can get through, you know, get my contact information, maybe I can post it or whatever. But I would love I will talk ear off about, you know, how to find these, you know, or codify them better or name them or you name it. Yeah.

00:59:59:15 - 01:00:16:02
Speaker 2
I have a feeling we're probably going to do some kind of. This is not the last time we're going to go dive into the brain and Traves magazine and start thinking about, how it is that we can help folks dive through values. You and I have done some deeper tap stuff on this thing, and I think you're such a great resource for it.

01:00:16:02 - 01:00:19:02
Speaker 2
But I think you're also very approachable in the way that you share that stuff along.

01:00:19:04 - 01:00:42:14
Speaker 1
Oh, man. And I think that the twinkle I've seen, so I've done a little bit of business consulting on the side just for fun, honestly, and I was able to uncover core values for a couple different organizations. And just watching them light up when you name a value that is clear that they we've uncovered this and we've seen it in the people and we've taken all of these words and they're all in this bucket.

01:00:42:16 - 01:01:06:01
Speaker 1
And now we got to give it a name that it's exciting and compelling and, and watching their I mean, we had this one client like sir, it was, it was serve with heart was one of those, it was, grind to greatness, you know, so for this client, like, these were like, these were a moniker for a very deep feeling where it's just like, yes, you've hit the nail.

01:01:06:07 - 01:01:18:19
Speaker 1
We we cannot improve that. That's. It doesn't get any better. Yeah. They're like jumping up and down, you know, because you've just put a face to something that they always knew, but they couldn't figure out how to articulate. And so yeah, we'd love to be able to help with that.

01:01:18:23 - 01:01:36:19
Speaker 2
No, you certainly will, man. There's no doubt Travis. I mean, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. I'm. I am certain this won't be the last time. Me, but I thanks for all you do, man. Thanks for who you are. And I am sure that the folks tuning into this will, there's no doubt, will be inspired me and so awesome.

01:01:36:19 - 01:01:37:12
Speaker 2
Thank you brother.

01:01:37:12 - 01:01:45:22
Speaker 1
Really appreciate it. Super honored to be here. And yeah, look forward to the next time. Great.