Wisdom From A Man Who Built A Moving Company Empire I Wade Lombard I AO 32

In this episode of American Operator, JC sits down with Wade Lombard—an entrepreneur who went from disrupting the moving industry to building custom homes—to talk about leadership, discipline, and staying in your lane. Wade shares how key relationships shaped his path, why marriage transformed his priorities, and how understanding the Enneagram has helped him lead more effectively. From tackling a low-barrier industry with high standards, to surviving the “dark years” of business, Wade breaks down what it really takes to scale, leverage the strengths of others, and push through hard seasons. This is a candid conversation about growth, grit, and building something that lasts.

Real stories. Real ownership. Real lessons from the field.
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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:15
Speaker 1
Hard work. Real talk. No shortcuts. I'm Joseph Cabrera. This is American operator.

00:00:09:15 - 00:00:19:15
Speaker 1
All right. Team here in studio with Wade lumber. Man and entrepreneur's entrepreneur. So good to have you back in, man. And know you're a busy gas. And we appreciate the time.

00:00:19:17 - 00:00:32:18
Speaker 2
I love being here, man. I feel like the little bit of time we spent together has been really a lot of fun and interesting, and I love learning. And so I'm here to I'm here to pick your brain as much as you are, to pick my own man.

00:00:32:20 - 00:00:48:01
Speaker 1
Or ask away anything you want. And at the very least, what we did. You can tell that this studio did a little bit of a transformation. So we made a lot out of these little walls, man. But it was a cold white jail cell as, our folks were saying beforehand. So you've come here now with a much more upgraded status.

00:00:48:01 - 00:00:51:11
Speaker 2
Feels warm to me. I like it small but mighty.

00:00:51:13 - 00:01:08:19
Speaker 1
Well, I appreciate that. I it's good to have you. And I have, I mean, there's so many things we can cover. And I know you've done a lot of things, and, you know, everything from the moving industry all the way into the, you know, building some of this most incredible, really, forms of art that happen to be places that people live in.

00:01:08:19 - 00:01:25:17
Speaker 1
So I want to just cover all those things. But I guess before starting all that, I just love to kind of share with folks, kind of. Wade in the early days, was he always this guy that was going to get into business and do his own thing, or was this a very different outlook for you when you were growing up?

00:01:25:19 - 00:01:46:17
Speaker 2
You know, I think it's a bit of a mix. I'll, I'll start by saying that I did some homework and listened to some, some podcasts from from you guys. And, I was struck by something, you know, I think the last podcast you guys did was of a guy who played professional baseball, went to West Point, you know, and as I listen to this guy, I'm like, this guy has one in a in a billion.

00:01:46:17 - 00:02:06:09
Speaker 2
You know, he was he he came out of the womb as a leader. And that couldn't be more different than my story. And, you know, for any listeners that have ever felt average, then you've come to the right place because that's where, you know, in so many ways, things started, for me at least the way I kind of reflect on it.

00:02:06:11 - 00:02:25:16
Speaker 2
You know, I say, you know, I grew up in Alabama and I always use the same thing, you know, Alabama's 49th in education, and I didn't do that. Well, there, you know, and so, yeah, I had a learning disability. So, you know, I was I was probably an above average athlete, but not great. I was a below average student.

00:02:25:18 - 00:02:49:20
Speaker 2
I just, you know, never really saw myself as, or, I struggled to see myself as is anything but average. And so it, you know, I don't know that I was aware, you know, in those early, formidable years of what I wanted to do. But there's a couple of relationships, and I'll keep going back there over and over these couple of relationships that really changed everything.

00:02:49:20 - 00:03:08:16
Speaker 2
So one or my parents, my dad was an entrepreneur. So I watched him build businesses and, and hung around those businesses. You know, he he had, you know, like automotive repair shops. And I would be in there in the hot summers at 15 year old, 15 years old, change in balance and tires and changing oil and that kind of thing.

00:03:08:16 - 00:03:29:07
Speaker 2
And so I was around, being an entrepreneur in my dad. And so I went to college and got connected with the president of the school there, guy named Doctor Paul Kohn, also very entrepreneurial guy. And, he became a mentor. And to this day, you know, he's 80 now. I consider him to be a hero of mine.

00:03:29:09 - 00:03:56:12
Speaker 2
And so I think when I look back, it wasn't anything inside of me. It's kind of more caught than taught, you know? And so I think people teased it out of me more than it just flowed out of me. And that's what I would respond and relationship after relationship. But the relationship through those years and even now, like my freshman roommate from college, he's handled all of our marketing and he's brilliant.

00:03:56:12 - 00:04:17:11
Speaker 2
And he works for Oracle and he's just next level smart. But that relationship has been enormous for me. Every business he's been a part of and he's done marketing and all of our design work and and those kinds of things have really shaped the direction and the person that I am more than I felt like this is just naturally come out of me.

00:04:17:13 - 00:04:21:20
Speaker 2
And now it's become who I am. And I think a lot of it's through those relationships.

00:04:22:00 - 00:04:36:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, you almost can't. It always makes sense looking back, right? I guess, like in the moment it didn't seem clear. I got you just said, all right, I got a one. I wonder if this resonates with you. I mean, do you know, do you know Theo Van?

00:04:36:11 - 00:04:37:02
Speaker 2
Of course.

00:04:37:02 - 00:04:39:08
Speaker 1
And do you know what, Quinn Phoenix? Do you know.

00:04:39:08 - 00:04:41:17
Speaker 2
That? Oh, wow. Oh, I've seen the recent.

00:04:41:19 - 00:04:42:09
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:04:42:11 - 00:04:46:04
Speaker 2
We just saw people become best buddies on a podcast.

00:04:46:04 - 00:04:47:01
Speaker 1
On his blog. It was.

00:04:47:01 - 00:04:47:12
Speaker 2
Amazing.

00:04:47:12 - 00:05:07:04
Speaker 1
Okay, so this is even going to be. I can't believe this is on that plane. So I just wrap that up and he said something there to a keen that made me kind of or they were both talking about this part. And I want to just see if this section resonates with you at all. The conversation for our audience, because I don't need to tell Wade because he just didn't listen to the thing.

00:05:07:10 - 00:05:32:19
Speaker 1
But there's a part there where Will Cain goes? I realize after a while that I was basically trying to be somebody that I wasn't naturally. And the example he gave is the way I look, the way I act, the way I am. Wouldn't make sense naturally to be like the star quarterback in a movie. Right. But I am kind of this guy because I realize my face look like this when growing up.

00:05:33:00 - 00:05:40:19
Speaker 1
He is. But I'm kind of this guy that like, looks suspect, looks like he doesn't have it together. Kind of klutzy, all those things. And he's still in a.

00:05:40:19 - 00:05:43:04
Speaker 2
Store and the clerk would follow him around.

00:05:43:09 - 00:05:59:14
Speaker 1
Following him because that's the shoplifter. That's the other guy. Yeah, exactly. So. And I'm loving that they're laughing about this, but it did resonate with me in one part. Or it did at least kind of struck me. Interesting that he goes once I realize if I just leaned into what I was naturally, yeah, I could become great at that thing.

00:05:59:16 - 00:06:03:05
Speaker 1
Does that stick out to you at all? Like, just does any of that stuff resonate in your own life.

00:06:03:05 - 00:06:22:08
Speaker 2
100%? Talk about it. I always say, you know, stay in your lane. Yeah. So the illustration that I heard a pastor preach one time and I think this is so brilliant, he talked about running a marathon. And I love this illustration so much. And he talked about, you know, he's running a marathon and he's on pace.

00:06:22:08 - 00:06:43:23
Speaker 2
He's right at mile 18 and somebody's 20 years older than him passes him and he starts getting down on himself. And he's like, how does this happen? How is this person so much older than me? He runs a couple more miles. Someone 20 pounds heavier than him passes him. He said, what is going on? Why am I, you know, even though he's on pace in the in, the illustration comes back to you.

00:06:43:23 - 00:07:00:00
Speaker 2
You got to run your own race, you know, and, and I watched a friend of mine sell his business to private equity a few years ago. And I just don't have it. I don't have an envious spirit. That's just not kind of one of my struggles most of the time. But I remember kind of being like, well, that sounds nice.

00:07:00:00 - 00:07:17:02
Speaker 2
A lot of zeroes on that check. You know, I want to do that, you know, in the sense that that that's not my race right now. I need to stick in my lane. This is this is my lane right now. I've got my hands on about 4 or 5 businesses. I'd probably potentially make more money if I just focused on one.

00:07:17:03 - 00:07:38:16
Speaker 2
Like, I recognize that I know the hedgehog concept from good to great. And Jim Collins I got I've read all that, but I feel like this is my lane. And when you're in your lane, this is the other illustration I give. When you go to the airport, you're on one of those walking sidewalks. If you're walking on one of those next to someone who's not, you shoot out in front of them, but you're not given any more energy to it.

00:07:38:22 - 00:07:55:00
Speaker 2
It doesn't cost you, man, right? Matter of fact, it might give you energy being on one of those. That's when you're in your lane, when you're look to your left and your right and other people that are doing the same thing you're doing, you're shooting way out in front of them. And it does. It's not exhausting. You. That's your lane and that's where you need to run.

00:07:55:00 - 00:08:15:03
Speaker 2
And so that resonates with me completely. And I've given that a ton of thought, and I've talked to people about it because it's so it's so part of kind of my stories. I look to my left and my right. My story doesn't look like other people. But sensing that I'm in my lane and it gives me energy and I and I really love what I'm doing.

00:08:15:05 - 00:08:33:06
Speaker 1
Do you think it's like an age thing that you start to appreciate? What that means is, I feel like the discipline required to stay there is extremely difficult, and it might not even be the flashy influencer types that you're looking over. I know a lot of folks that does happen to them. I feel like for guys like us, it's easy to be like, that's not me.

00:08:33:08 - 00:08:47:10
Speaker 1
When it's harder is like when I look at weight or somebody and go like, folks, you respect that. You go, oh man, maybe I need to be doing what they're doing. How do you stay disciplined? Either to do that or maybe take one segment from that but not do it completely.

00:08:47:12 - 00:09:08:06
Speaker 2
So a couple things. First of all, I think I'm in a season of life. I'm 45 years old. And where I'm at in my career, I have to focus more on pruning than pursuing. I don't really have to work that hard to pursue that. I can wake up every day and that's just for me. I'm built for it, and I know that's really annoying to hear, because it's so much of the tick tock culture is around.

00:09:08:06 - 00:09:23:23
Speaker 2
Kind of like, I wake up at 2 a.m. and I run eight miles and all that. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you get to a certain place where more opportunities come to you than you have to go chase them. And so I have to spend I have to spend some time pruning and saying, hey, this one's not for me.

00:09:24:01 - 00:09:43:07
Speaker 2
I need a Heisman arm. That. And certainly at this stage where I've got enough relationships, I have enough of a network where I could almost pursue something new every day by looking across the street and look and say, man, this looks nice. I can go pursue that. I wonder if I could open that business. I wonder if I could do that in deciding and being disciplined.

00:09:43:07 - 00:09:49:20
Speaker 2
Use the right word and discipline in pruning versus pursuing. That's what's become important to me over the last couple of years.

00:09:49:21 - 00:09:53:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. Did you have to skin your knee a couple times to understand that?

00:09:53:13 - 00:10:14:11
Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely. Have been down a couple more roads in the last couple years where I think my wife has got, I told you so in the back of her throat that she's not letting it kind of slip out in, and that's okay. You know, we're not going about a thousand. And, you know, I've learned a lot.

00:10:14:11 - 00:10:38:04
Speaker 2
You know, I just spent three years kind of pursuing something that doesn't look like it's probably going to pan out. And I was telling somebody at lunch today that we were talking about it. There's something in me that doesn't feel like I wasted three years. And yet, you know, every situation's a teacher, and I'm learning. But, yeah, I've got scant omnis, I can promise you.

00:10:38:04 - 00:10:56:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And of the path that you have to walk to get to where you're going to ultimately get, that's a. Yeah. It's funny how we I can look at I think about it with married folks too. You always look at the older couples have been happily married for 40 or 50 years and you forget or you just kind of have zero concept that they weren't like that the whole time.

00:10:56:06 - 00:11:07:21
Speaker 1
You kind of paying attention the last tenure track record. And it's like, man, it took a lot of work to get there, and you weren't or maybe even live when they're in the first ten years. You know, that takes work, just like on yourself and all the other things that come along.

00:11:07:23 - 00:11:35:05
Speaker 2
I think about that, I really, I feel I've actually have a great deal of, of empathy and sympathy for singles, you know, because what marriage does is it sends down the edges and you're forced if you stick through it to, to change. And there is, there is that, you know, that path from being self addicted, which we all are.

00:11:35:06 - 00:11:53:02
Speaker 2
You know, Donald Miller talks about that in blue light jazz. We all have an issue of self addiction. And you're moved towards selflessness. Well that that takes sanding you know. And that's in marriage to me. Even more than having children sands down the edges in a way that almost nothing else can.

00:11:53:04 - 00:11:58:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. How you got we were just talking about it beforehand. You got married fairly young.

00:11:58:00 - 00:11:58:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:11:58:08 - 00:12:17:08
Speaker 1
21. Yeah. I mean, for for guy or gal who's an entrepreneur, that seems nuts. You know, most folks aren't thinking getting married into 30s, if ever. Yeah. Looking back on it sounds like you're happy about that. Yeah. In the moment. Just kind of. When you thought about what this meant, did you have a good idea of, like, what?

00:12:17:09 - 00:12:21:13
Speaker 1
Marriage, man. And also we're about to go start businesses and do all these things together.

00:12:21:16 - 00:12:30:20
Speaker 2
You know, my mom was married at 16 and it was her second marriage. I'm just kidding. Can you imagine? What if that was the case? No, she was married at 16.

00:12:30:20 - 00:12:32:10
Speaker 1
I don't want to say anything. Yeah, I.

00:12:32:10 - 00:12:40:16
Speaker 2
Know you're going to hold it back and that's so polite. But, you know, my dad was 21. She was saying, is this the most Alabama story I've ever heard? And so.

00:12:40:16 - 00:12:42:04
Speaker 1
You're saying all the things that are right.

00:12:42:04 - 00:13:00:20
Speaker 2
Of course. You know, you don't have to go there. I'll go there for you, you know? And so, the thing that I found that to for the thing that I believe it that is entrepreneurial about it is this it was the next step, you know, Kimberly not met our first day of college. We dated all through college and we were about to graduate.

00:13:00:21 - 00:13:27:07
Speaker 2
And that was the next step. An entrepreneur almost always is ready to take the next step. And so whatever that is, and I happened to be there at 21. And man, talk about skinned knees. Those early, you know, relationships and figuring that out a lot. I'll just tell you. But I have a philosophy on this. I go to a church here in town that is, I think the average age is about 27 years old, over 3000, you know, mostly young people.

00:13:27:09 - 00:13:50:12
Speaker 2
And I look around and people are waiting a long time to get married these days. And are birth rates really low? And this is one of these things that people like. We're not worried about that. We'll figure that out later. This is this is already a problem. And in Japan and some other places and so if if I were talking to a young person right now, I don't think the balance is to pull them towards getting married later in life.

00:13:50:12 - 00:14:18:19
Speaker 2
I think balance current in today's culture is pulling them back towards getting married a little earlier. And in committing this is a covenant, we're going to figure this out together. I'm not going anywhere, but but I don't think that there's anything wrong. If you meet the right person and the next step is to is to get married. I'm I'm typically going to encourage that if the person's relatively measured and, and, you know, makes wise decisions.

00:14:18:21 - 00:14:38:10
Speaker 2
My thing was I was a hard worker, you know, you know again okay. Athlete not a great student. What was the thing that separated I can work circles around people. All my life I've just been my thing. I can keep 100 balls in the air at one time when I come to work. And so for me, my concern wasn't, could I provide for this person?

00:14:38:11 - 00:14:41:20
Speaker 2
I felt very strongly that I could, and it was the next right step.

00:14:41:22 - 00:15:00:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. What do you, if you don't mind indulging me, just. If you could think about Wade not married early or at all, maybe. And just kind of fast forward you through your first entrepreneurial and journey, or maybe through square cow and then think of you married. What do you think would be the major end point differences?

00:15:00:02 - 00:15:01:06
Speaker 2
Workaholism?

00:15:01:12 - 00:15:02:19
Speaker 1
Okay, you do overdo it.

00:15:03:00 - 00:15:26:23
Speaker 2
No question. One of the biggest tensions for Kimberly and I has always been my default mode is to wake up early, work and then work until I go to sleep and talk about sanding down the edges. This is the area where she I was not going to miss a game for the kids. We weren't going to miss it.

00:15:26:23 - 00:15:45:16
Speaker 2
I wasn't going to, you know, miss a, you know, school play. And it was through a lot of conflict that we got there. Was it okay, I'll be there I would argue and she would argue and I made it to 99% of those things. But it was through. It was through conflict. When I talk about sanding down the edges is my default mode.

00:15:45:16 - 00:16:06:09
Speaker 2
Self addiction is I love to work. I want to go accomplish, I want to go achieve, and when you have somebody your counterpart saying that's great, I want to support that most of the time, but you're going to be at this event. And because this, this matters to our family and you concede and you go to that. The edge just got sanded down a little bit more.

00:16:06:11 - 00:16:32:03
Speaker 2
And so I think the biggest difference is had, started my career with the, with the, sixth gear of workaholism, which is where I would have gone, I think I probably would have set myself on a, on a, tougher trajectory on my personal life. Yeah, I think it would have affected my relationships with, you know, my friends and my family and and then my future wife.

00:16:32:05 - 00:16:48:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's killer. You saying that just reminded me of, when I was in the service, this guy, it was kind of a. Yeah. You get, like, direct mentors, folks that you like. We're working together. He's shepherding me or she's you, whatever it is. Like, that's a thing. But then you get folks are kind of like, they kind of roved through your life.

00:16:48:20 - 00:17:07:05
Speaker 1
There's something about them or what they do or just who they are that you learn from. There maybe isn't anything direct. Knows this one gentleman who was a colonel at the time and kind of do these, like, would rotate through the battlefield and he'd always stop by him. He was a Green Beret and just kind of one of these, like, just wholesome, but like, no doubt a lethal warrior.

00:17:07:07 - 00:17:32:20
Speaker 1
And I remember picking his brain one day just asking him. He stopped by and, just picking his brain one day, asking him just basically like, how do I become you one day? That was like, basically the gist of what I was asking him as a young officer at the time. And I was expecting some kind of, like, miraculous, not miraculous, just something more technical or something more like, do this assignment, go to this school, make sure you get this kind of report on your next thing.

00:17:32:22 - 00:17:49:22
Speaker 1
And he goes, Joseph, just be a good man and the rest of it will take care of itself. And at the time I was like, well, that's just a crock, man. Like, that is not what broad. Yeah. Like, what the heck's that all about? And as I picked his brain later, like his entire M.O. and I know this guy believed it.

00:17:49:22 - 00:18:14:21
Speaker 1
He was just like. He was a committed his wife. And so he's like, if I'm committed to her, and just so happens that all these other things still fell into place. But if I had done the other thing around, it wouldn't have ended up that way. But man, for guys and gals that are so impatient and, you know, have a driver attitude and all those things, it can seem kind of an impossible thing, which is putting work differently.

00:18:14:21 - 00:18:41:20
Speaker 1
How would you explain to somebody? We kind of value in this world, and I think maybe since the beginning of time that like workaholism, you know, that person who does that is touted as, you know, is the as the person, to idolize, if you will. I know you get to sometimes burn your hand on the stove before you can learn, but anything that you'd also say, hey, in addition to just marriage, but rounding out those edges are important.

00:18:41:20 - 00:18:48:21
Speaker 1
Like, what else would you tell someone to hold on to as a good reason to maybe lean into humbling yourself sooner?

00:18:48:22 - 00:19:11:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, when I was, when I was little, I'd go talk to. Sorry, excuse me. When, my children were were young, I would go do, you know, career day at their school. Yeah. And I would talk to them about being an entrepreneur. And, you know, for me, there might be, like, a private equity guy or an engineer or what, whatnot.

00:19:11:19 - 00:19:23:20
Speaker 2
And I would ask the class, I would say, well, what what do you guys think about being a business owner? And most of the time somebody would raise their hand so you don't have a boss. And this mentality of

00:19:23:20 - 00:19:39:08
Speaker 2
there's nobody above you, but there's no job beneath you. And if you're an entrepreneur and you lean into this whole idea of like, went out, you know, we started the moving company, we, you know, we were on a truck for five years, five years and moving furniture.

00:19:39:08 - 00:20:00:04
Speaker 2
I lost 40 pounds my first summer, moved furniture and talk about humbling. And guess what? We would we move furniture all day and it would be the end of the week, and nobody would have mop the floor and you'd mop the floor and nobody would have paid the bills because it's up to you. You'd have to sit down and you'd write checks or you'd you'd pay the bills.

00:20:00:06 - 00:20:25:04
Speaker 2
You know, there is a natural there's a natural path for most entrepreneurs and humility in the fact that there is no job beneath you. You will do anything and you will do everything. You know. If you're an architect and you work for a firm, you mostly get to draw all day. You're mostly designing and drawing. Somebody else takes out the trash, somebody else cleans the bathroom, somebody else pays the bills.

00:20:25:06 - 00:20:45:01
Speaker 2
This this embracing an entrepreneur that just embraces, like, yeah, there's no job beneath me. You better believe it. I will do anything. Two days ago, I delivered a wheelbarrow to one of my. One of my guys put it in the back of my truck. Yeah. Sounds like a small example. In 20 years into my career, you know, several businesses.

00:20:45:03 - 00:21:10:21
Speaker 2
You better believe I'll load up a wheelbarrow and I'll take it right to the jobsite all day long. And there's no job beneath me. There is a there is a there is a kind of push pull on pride and humility there that's like it is humbling and I embrace it. And so one of the things I would want to call out of a new entrepreneur to say, hey, don't rush to to diminish that, embrace it and say, yeah, that's me.

00:21:10:21 - 00:21:13:08
Speaker 2
That's, I'll raise my hand every time on that one.

00:21:13:08 - 00:21:30:13
Speaker 2
You know, we would get a call early on with the moving company, and again, I'd be studying the PNL with my business partner, and we get a call and be like, hey, we got a baby grand piano. We put the pedal down, we drive, and we go help move a baby grand baby grand piano down a set of stairs.

00:21:30:15 - 00:21:38:07
Speaker 2
Again, nobody's above, you know, jobs beneath you. It's just built in humility.

00:21:38:09 - 00:21:42:20
Speaker 1
Is that is there a bit of mom and dad that put that in you to do it that way of thinking?

00:21:42:23 - 00:21:59:22
Speaker 2
Oh, definitely. Certainly. Yeah. I mean, this is this is this was part of the, you know, you know, my mom, Enneagram, one perfectionist. You know, you'd wake up, you think Saturday morning was about cartoons? I mean, we woke, we woke up and we cleaned, you know what I mean? I mean, this is like, you know, our house was like.

00:21:59:22 - 00:22:19:08
Speaker 2
It was for sale all the time. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was that clean. And so there was that sense of, you know, of of, hey, we work and we've done that, Kimberly, and I've done that with our three kids. You know, we're in we live in an affluent area and very few teenagers have jobs. All three of my kids have jobs.

00:22:19:10 - 00:22:42:02
Speaker 2
You know, there's a family value system here is like, hey, we work in this family. And and so, and not because I could certainly afford your lifestyle. We could do that, but, that's not what we're about. And so, I do believe that it was passed on from my parents to me. And certainly a very, very important thing that Kimberly and I were to pass on to our kids.

00:22:42:02 - 00:22:47:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, man. Are you three? Yeah, you are three for those are on the on the on the horn here. The Cheever.

00:22:47:23 - 00:22:48:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:22:48:12 - 00:23:06:03
Speaker 1
Yeah that's cool man I make sense. Those are I would imagine there's a lot of I imagine that's the one that typically is the, I don't want to say helpers and stuff like that aren't usually have some edges that they're all surrounding. You have that feel like achievers have the most sharp edges.

00:23:06:03 - 00:23:31:19
Speaker 2
Oh, man. Ian Crone, one of the leading guys on the Enneagram, he says the most dangerous person on the planet is an unhealthy three. You know, if no one's there to again, sand those edges down, man, they're they're a force. Yeah, they're very persuasive. They're very charismatic. They have a drive, they'll run through a wall.

00:23:31:20 - 00:23:43:19
Speaker 2
You kind of combine all those things, and you bring in unhealthy or or deception into it. It's it's it can be a scary person. So that threes need they need boundaries and guardrails man in a big way.

00:23:43:19 - 00:23:47:03
Speaker 1
They need some good twos and threes. And then he's going to he's out there probably.

00:23:47:04 - 00:23:48:07
Speaker 2
Oh I see two issue.

00:23:48:07 - 00:24:04:00
Speaker 1
Well then you worked out. Yes it worked out great. Yeah. Killer. Yeah I, I, I could talk to you all day long just about just kind of how that stuff works. I think it is. I mean, I guess for the close, this kind of string of thoughts out on the, on the front of just not only partnerships.

00:24:04:00 - 00:24:32:11
Speaker 1
And this has been probably most importantly, at the house. I was talking with a buddy the other day. We were actually just commenting on each other. Stafford just how much we just completely overlook the, you know, what's the what's the director of the board at the dinner table? Think about that decision. Yeah. And, I mean, the spouse is so important because it drives not only the, the good things, but it also drives a lot of the things that if he or she ain't on board back at the house, I almost can't.

00:24:32:13 - 00:24:56:02
Speaker 1
I don't care how much I pay you, how much I incentivize you, time I give you off just like ten years ago. You're having that individual in your ear when you get back, or that individuals in their ear when they get to the house. It's very difficult. And I think, how have you I guess my thought is like, have you figured out how to, at least maybe for your key leaders to like, understand what makes them tick beyond what you know them at work?

00:24:56:02 - 00:24:59:21
Speaker 1
But like, who's that person they have sitting in there? Like, how much do you get in that business?

00:25:00:03 - 00:25:20:13
Speaker 2
So, I won't hire a management major or an executive without making them take the energy. Graham. I mean, it is the single tool that I look at, you know, and I, you know, I've done a lot Myers-Briggs and Strengthsfinder and, you know, disc profile. I've gone through a lot of them. To me, Enneagram is is the most explosive leadership tool that I've ever used.

00:25:20:13 - 00:25:41:03
Speaker 2
And so so the other piece of that is and this is very, very just, you know, you know, particular to my personality, I love to figure out what makes people tick. I love to figure out what motivates people. And so some of it is just I really enjoy reading about psychology. And again, what kind of motivates people to make certain decisions.

00:25:41:03 - 00:26:09:22
Speaker 2
And even, you know, birth order and those type of things are really interesting to me. And so when you talk about somebody, especially in the industries I'm in, which I'm hiring most mostly laborers, mostly, you know, wage earners, in those businesses, typically the owner or the operator isn't spending a whole lot of time, you know, dialing in on what makes, you know, this particular what makes Chris tick, you know, or whatever.

00:26:10:00 - 00:26:34:10
Speaker 2
I actually just have a really fascination with it. And so I enjoy it. You know, we have a company called Square Cal Movers. It's the shape, the animal 2000 movers. And every year we have a conference, you know, and we bring in all of our managers from every, every state, all around central Texas and other states where we have branches and, we fly in a guest speaker.

00:26:34:12 - 00:26:55:01
Speaker 2
And we've gone through Enneagram and we've talked about these things, and we've taught them how to engage their team in those things, to figure out what makes them, you know, tick and what makes them motivated to do things. We love it so much that not only we're trying to develop our team, we're trying to develop our team into people who develop people.

00:26:55:03 - 00:27:10:23
Speaker 2
And because when you have 2 or 300 employees, you're never going to meet all of those folks. And so you have to develop a team that's really interested in that kind of thing. And we've worked hard to do that. In just our business coaching, in all of our, in all of our conferences throughout the year years.

00:27:10:23 - 00:27:13:02
Speaker 1
When did you all start that in the biz?

00:27:13:04 - 00:27:38:11
Speaker 2
So I think it's funny that you say that. So my goal was always for for employees to to get grab on to the vision of where we're going. And so our first conference I think was in 2011. That means we're three years old. We probably had four trucks at the time. And I remember going in to a print shop to get lanyards made, and then the guy's like, okay, you need lanyards for an event.

00:27:38:11 - 00:27:56:00
Speaker 2
Great. And you got out a piece of paper and how many need? I said six, and he said six. He said 660. And I said, no, just six. And he said, for an event, you know, and again that day, like you know, we couldn't afford anything. So I brought in another business owner that's a friend. And I paid him an honorarium.

00:27:56:00 - 00:28:11:09
Speaker 2
You know, I think it was a gift card, $450, but all my guys had their name on a lanyard, you know, and and, you know, I worked on that slide deck forever, and we. Hey, yeah, I understand there's only six of us in this room, but I want you to think about where we're going when there's 80 people at the conference.

00:28:11:09 - 00:28:32:12
Speaker 2
And we flew in the guest speaker because that's where we're headed. Don't don't mistake it. And so when we started, it was, it was, you know, we rented out a little space at Keller Williams in Lakeway and you know, they gave us a great deal because we couldn't afford much. And you, we brought in, you know, we had food delivered and all this stuff we probably spent all together, probably $500 on first conference ever.

00:28:32:12 - 00:28:53:06
Speaker 2
And that was a lot of money for us at the time. So it started small, but the vision was big from the very beginning, not just for the company, but for this event that we call the conference. And now it's become a really big deal. And we've invited a lot of people to it. And our guys have truly, in a real way, been developed, personally and professionally at this, this event we have every year.

00:28:53:07 - 00:28:54:18
Speaker 1
That's it. How long you say was.

00:28:54:20 - 00:28:58:08
Speaker 2
So we started doing that in 2011. So we've been doing it 14 years now.

00:28:58:08 - 00:28:59:07
Speaker 1
And how long is the conference?

00:28:59:07 - 00:29:02:01
Speaker 2
Oh so two days. Apologies. No, that's two days long.

00:29:02:01 - 00:29:03:02
Speaker 1
You get to really get into it.

00:29:03:03 - 00:29:03:15
Speaker 2
That's right.

00:29:03:19 - 00:29:05:06
Speaker 1
You are camping out overnight or doing.

00:29:05:06 - 00:29:05:17
Speaker 2
Whatever.

00:29:05:17 - 00:29:07:05
Speaker 1
Absolutely thing. Absolutely.

00:29:07:05 - 00:29:08:18
Speaker 2
We get hotels and the whole thing. Yeah.

00:29:08:18 - 00:29:27:04
Speaker 1
Wow man. We'll talk about the biz and how did how did, how did you get into moving? I mean, it seems there's parts of it it makes sense to me right off the bat. Sure. But then there's other parts, based on what I know now about the biz and how big it is. Just curious. Like, I always had a passion for moving heavy stuff.

00:29:27:04 - 00:29:42:19
Speaker 2
Oh, man. So we're selling franchises now, and we had some franchises in recently and we're going around the table and it was amazing. These people are here to talk about this opportunity. And like three of them said, I hate moving, you know. And I was like, wow, you know.

00:29:43:01 - 00:29:43:22
Speaker 1
You know what? You know. Yeah.

00:29:43:23 - 00:30:16:15
Speaker 2
You know, you know what we're doing here, right? And here. And here's how I responded to that. That day. I said, you're I said, I don't think oncologists love cancer. Their job is to fix cancer. And your job isn't to love moving, it's to fix it. And so we went into it through that lens of like, this is an industry known for, you know, gosh, guys showing up with ankle bracelets, you know, to, you know, to, to to move us who you know, they can't go so far from their house, you know, you know guys, you know, tearing stuff up or you know, my, my, my price for my move started here.

00:30:16:15 - 00:30:31:11
Speaker 2
Now it's blown up three times what it was. And we went into it thinking, okay, so there's a there's a whole in the industry around service. And we love serving people and we feel like we're really gifted at serving people. Next, there's low barriers to entry. You know what you need. You need a big truck and a strong back.

00:30:31:11 - 00:30:53:09
Speaker 2
Well, at the time I was 27 and my brother in law was 25. We said, we can we can figure this out. And so we knew that if the industry was not known for service and we love serving there, there was low barriers to entry. You don't need it licensed, you don't need a ton of equipment and it the physicality, the work is a real thing.

00:30:53:09 - 00:31:06:02
Speaker 2
We felt like we could do that. All that coupled with we art movers that became businessmen. This is how most moving companies start or businessmen became movers. And that distinction is really important.

00:31:06:02 - 00:31:25:04
Speaker 2
And so those few things really steered us in this direction. Here's the other thing. A lot of people want to follow their passion. I want to love what I'm doing. I want to love moving. For instance. Well, one of the one of the major, you know, flexes in this whole thing is people don't like moving.

00:31:25:06 - 00:31:46:12
Speaker 2
And so what is often tied to that is strong margins. And have young people come to me all the time and ask me about what they should do? And I said, well, I think you should chase strong margins. Strong margins are, are are really there? I'm not passionate about it, but if you have strong margins, you're gonna make a lot of money and you'll be passionate about it.

00:31:46:15 - 00:32:08:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so that's typically, you know, do you want a hobby or a business. If you want a business and you chase strong margins, you're going to be okay. And that's typically where I go. And so that's those are the kind of boxes that we checked in. You know, my brother in law, the one that I didn't start a business with had just moved to Austin to plant a church.

00:32:08:05 - 00:32:28:18
Speaker 2
And so we started in a in a city we'd never been to before. In 2008, the worst year since the Great Depression to start a business. And we started with three family members and two trucks, and within ten years were the biggest in the city of Austin. Companies been in business for 2030 years. And so why is that?

00:32:28:18 - 00:32:46:23
Speaker 2
Well, my sense is, is that we came into town and we said there is no plan B, b, this is it. We're going to either do this or die trying. Number two, we will outserve everybody. There will not be someone that has a better attitude. We will answer the phone with a positive attitude. We will show up.

00:32:47:01 - 00:33:05:16
Speaker 2
And when the client says, I want you to move the sleeper sofa again and it's 10:00 at night and you say it's our pleasure. We'd love to. Where do you want it? It rings different. And the people of Austin, Texas grabbed on to what we were trying to do. And we've been blessed ever since.

00:33:05:18 - 00:33:16:00
Speaker 1
Did you feel that right off the bat? Like after doing that a few times, or did you do did you have a moment where you go, oh man, enough people told enough people now, like, I can start feeling the momentum.

00:33:16:00 - 00:33:23:03
Speaker 2
So starting in oh eight, people were moving there, but they were using a radio flier wagon. Yeah, you know what I mean. And so.

00:33:23:07 - 00:33:23:18
Speaker 1
In Boston.

00:33:23:18 - 00:33:43:07
Speaker 2
That will be definitely they were I was right, they definitely are. We definitely struggle to feel it at first. It took it took some time. But I remember in the early days we could track every call back to a single person. So, so many calls, hey, blah blah, blah, we need to move. And how did you hear about us?

00:33:43:07 - 00:34:04:14
Speaker 2
And they would tell us and we'd be like, that's because we moved Miss Johnson two weeks ago. That's the neighbor she told us about or hey, we ran in, we did some networking at that event, and that about 3 or 4 years in the flywheel really started moving and we'd get a call with like, hey, how did you hear about us being like, you know, honestly, a person say, I don't know if we heard about us from 2 or 3 places we like.

00:34:04:16 - 00:34:27:22
Speaker 2
How's that? How's that possible? Didn't even feel like that was even possible. When things really started going in about 2013, the phone was ringing and we could not keep up. I mean, this is where, you know, it's every problem you ever wanted to have, right? But it's a problem. Yeah. And we didn't have the infrastructure for it. And we remembered what the famine was like.

00:34:28:01 - 00:34:48:21
Speaker 2
And now we have the feast. And so there's something we didn't know how to say. And that was no. And so we said yes to everything. We'd start moves at 8:00 at night. I mean, you know, I mean literally, and it was day after day. And so, you know, the business starting in a recession, a major recession, and then moving into feast where the phone's ringing off the hook.

00:34:48:23 - 00:35:02:20
Speaker 2
This is a real struggle for a small business understanding how to build that infrastructure and create a pipeline of leadership and start doing those kinds of things. But that's how that's honestly how it played out at the beginning.

00:35:02:22 - 00:35:22:14
Speaker 1
I think about I think about the commitment you met, like, is it was there like a blood pact? Because I imagine if someone is in your shoes starting in oh eight, how do you go that long? Was it a promise you made behind the scenes? It's like, you know, with it or on it kind of thing. Or was there something else that drove you?

00:35:22:14 - 00:35:39:03
Speaker 1
Because I think that's probably where there's, there's many advising folks to go singing around in Nashville, and there's a lot of artists that will tell you, if I didn't play that one more gig, I wouldn't have discovered. And I just like I can't take any credit other than I just started to say yes to one more gig.

00:35:39:05 - 00:35:43:03
Speaker 1
You know, not quit till tomorrow. What was that for you?

00:35:43:05 - 00:36:06:11
Speaker 2
It's the reason that I can't say this with with absolute certainty, but it's the reason I'm almost certain I'll never start a business by myself. My business partner, my brother in law, he. And, when I was down, he was up. And when he was down, I was up, like, we we were going to encourage each other every step of the way.

00:36:06:14 - 00:36:20:12
Speaker 2
And we never talked about it. It's just naturally what you do. Same thing. You go to coffee with a friend and he's he's married in a bad place. You just say, hey, come on, man, you got this. Like, you know, why don't you think about these things? You're going to encourage him. It's your natural state. That's how. That's how you operate, right?

00:36:20:14 - 00:36:37:21
Speaker 2
Well, in a business, it's very much the same. And so, you know, we would finish a move I mean, commonly all the time. We finish a job at Houston, Derek. And, at midnight, 1:00 in the morning, we get in bed at 4:00 in the morning, we get up at 6:00 next morning, do it all over again day after day.

00:36:37:23 - 00:37:01:18
Speaker 2
I don't know how to run a business by myself, for the only reason that I lean so heavily on my business partners to do what I just described, which is to be that that force of encouragement for each other. And so I don't know that there was ever a time where, like, you promise and I promise it was just a mutual understanding that this will work.

00:37:01:21 - 00:37:19:13
Speaker 2
We have been called to this, and this is going to happen. I sat down at it was a conference dinner and one of our early employees, a guy named Mike Paulson, we were sitting down each other maggiano's there's 25 people there at dinner, and we invited all of everybody's spouses and all this stuff. So this is probably 4 or 5 years into the differences.

00:37:19:13 - 00:37:47:15
Speaker 2
And we had just hit 20 trucks. And Mike says, hey boss, you just hit 20 trucks. I said, no, Mike, it's awesome. He goes, did you ever did you ever think you would? And I said, every single day, every single day, even the worst of days, we were like, we're that's where we're going. And we might have been lying to ourselves, but when we would lie to each other, but we knew the goal was, we're going to grow weird, this thing will grow.

00:37:47:17 - 00:38:10:07
Speaker 2
And so that was the only mode we had for those first few years. And one of the things you see is it was so hard to, to get people to understand is how hard it is to start things. So we have this graph of trucks, you know, everybody has these different ways of like, you know, rating where you're where your business is.

00:38:10:07 - 00:38:18:05
Speaker 2
And so in our industry as trucks, it's not like how much profit or how many employees or how many trucks you got. You know, that's what it is. I mean, how many trucks you run it, you know, most.

00:38:18:05 - 00:38:19:02
Speaker 1
Alabama.

00:38:19:04 - 00:38:19:18
Speaker 2
Is right.

00:38:20:00 - 00:38:20:04
Speaker 1
By.

00:38:20:04 - 00:38:25:10
Speaker 2
The way. The guy sells us our trucks. His name is Bubba. Is that you can't make this up. It's true.

00:38:25:10 - 00:38:42:09
Speaker 2
So we have this graph of, you know, starting with two trucks in 2008. And it took us like five years to get to six trucks and then took us another five years to get to 60. And I tell this to people, it was harder to go from 2 to 6 than it was a go from 6 to 60.

00:38:42:11 - 00:39:00:14
Speaker 2
And I think some people hear that as hyperbolic. So I repeat it, it was harder to go from 2 to 6 than it was to go from 6 to 60. The first part of a business is excruciating. But the part I talked about with that flywheels going and the phone's ringing off the hook, it's the most exhilarating, most fun thing you will ever do.

00:39:00:14 - 00:39:19:17
Speaker 2
You can't skydiving get the same feeling? Yeah, but I wish that I could just. I wish for young entrepreneurs or new entrepreneurs. I could say, hey, just stick with it. It's coming. Live. Lean. It was lean Christmases, man. We didn't bring every, every dime that came in. We put back in the business, buy another truck, hire another driver.

00:39:19:19 - 00:39:35:20
Speaker 2
Let's move another sofa. What can we do? Because we're waiting for that time when the flywheel is going. It is you. You can't put a price on it. It's the most fun thing in the world. But to get to that place, you got to go through the hard times. And those first few years are really, really hard.

00:39:36:17 - 00:39:39:16
Speaker 1
You didn't know that at the time. You just kind of like it was.

00:39:39:16 - 00:39:41:06
Speaker 2
Living on faith, baby.

00:39:41:06 - 00:40:02:00
Speaker 1
Living on faith? Yeah, living on being a three. That's it. Yeah. Those kind of things. Right. It's. Why do you think that kind of advice. I mean there are some folks I think will hit it and go, heck yeah, okay. Thanks for that. And I think most people would say thanks for that. But it's like, what do you think that is in our in our programing that like we got to get burned by the stove.

00:40:02:00 - 00:40:12:17
Speaker 1
Otherwise we're not going to really know it. Right. We'll go. Wade tell me. But I should've listened. Right. What do you think that is? Just kind of like people being self absorbing, going. I'll be different, though, right?

00:40:12:18 - 00:40:30:06
Speaker 2
Well, I think that anything worth doing is hard. Sat down with a one of our managers at Square Cal. It's been probably 8 or 9 years now. And, you know, he was he wasn't performing. And I got up early in the morning. I drove down to South Austin where his branch was, and I just showed up. That's never good, you know?

00:40:30:06 - 00:40:33:23
Speaker 2
And I walked in and I said, hey, we need to have a talk. And we're talking.

00:40:33:23 - 00:40:47:13
Speaker 2
And he says, hey, he said, boss man, this is this is harder than I thought it was going to be. I said, I get it. That makes sense. I said, you're married, right? He said, yes, sir. Mayor Jay-Z. No, sir. Is it worth it?

00:40:47:15 - 00:41:01:14
Speaker 2
Yes, sir. You get kids, right? Two? Yes, sir. Raising kids easy. No, sir. Is it worth it? Yes, sir. I don't know of anything that's easy. That's worth doing.

00:41:01:14 - 00:41:12:18
Speaker 2
And I think inside of us we know that, you know state of Tennessee. Where I went to college, I served on the board there. And so we get all the statistics in state of Tennessee started doing a similar scholarship that a lot of other states does.

00:41:12:18 - 00:41:29:22
Speaker 2
If you stay in in the state and you graduated from high school, you have a certain GPA, they'll let you go to community college for free. And this affects the university that I'm on the board of. So we talk about this like how do we what are we doing to work through this and this kind of thing? Because kids now can get two years free education.

00:41:30:04 - 00:41:59:17
Speaker 2
So for a private Christian university, this is a problem. The the graduation rate of students who get free school is 14% because what's free isn't worth having. And so I think inside of us we know that. And so I think for the entrepreneurs that are going through a hard time or they're they or, or it's in those early stages or they're either heeding or not heeding the advice.

00:41:59:19 - 00:42:24:10
Speaker 2
I think in our DNA, we know if it's worth doing, it's going to be hard. And so when hard comes and discomfort comes, there's a part of us that's not surprised, but it's but it's something you got to lean into. And so, you know, I think some of those thoughts are apply here. You know, and I think a business that's, that's worth, that's worth growing is it's going to be you're going to have a tough road at some point.

00:42:24:16 - 00:42:39:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. Going back to Kimberly, how was that? How did how did y'all help each other keep in the game. Yeah, I would imagine she had a lot of belief in you to be able to do it. That's not, the spouse of an entrepreneur is not a, a short order.

00:42:39:06 - 00:42:39:22
Speaker 2
It's terrible.

00:42:40:00 - 00:42:42:08
Speaker 1
It's terrible, it's terrible.

00:42:42:10 - 00:43:01:19
Speaker 2
So we call those our dark ears, literally. You know, we we gave a talk at church a few a few weeks ago, and we talked about our dark ears. And so those are the years where I worked 16 hour days because I had to, you know, I would show up to the to the kids birthday, but I looked like the, the dad had given up on life, you know what I mean?

00:43:01:21 - 00:43:19:06
Speaker 2
Because I just got off of truck, you know, and I'm going to go get back on a truck after I've seen cut the cake. Yeah. This this was trying. And I and I talked to a young entrepreneur who's married in and going through the same thing a while back, and he's like, what did you do? I said, it it was really hard.

00:43:19:08 - 00:43:38:09
Speaker 2
Like, I don't I there is no, I mean, I can't give you the one, two, three on this and say everything's going to be great. I mean, it was just I don't know how I don't know how to manage a perfect work life, work life balance in the early stages of of a business, somebody else has to write that book.

00:43:38:11 - 00:43:55:08
Speaker 2
So when you say, how did Kimberly deal with it? Not well, and neither did I. But you know, Dave Ramsey live like no one else. You can live like no one else. Yeah. So we lived like no one else. So now we can live like no one else. So, you know, we went to Italy last year, in Spain the year before that.

00:43:55:08 - 00:44:15:10
Speaker 2
And you know, we we, we take our kids skiing and we live on a lake. And so we're out what wake surfing, you know, every couple days and could we have gotten there, you know, without going through that hard time. I don't know, Jake, if I'm being honest, I don't know if we could have. Yeah. And so it was hard.

00:44:15:12 - 00:44:31:10
Speaker 2
It's hard on our marriage. It was hard. It was memories for us as we talk about them as marriages do. They're they're not all rosy. But it's what we feel like we had to go through to get where we are.

00:44:31:12 - 00:44:53:07
Speaker 1
Well, I appreciate you sharing that. I think for a lot of folks, it almost seems like they're doing it wrong. If these other things aren't in check, right? Or probably even worse is, especially with the entrepreneur or the driver out there. Kind of beating up your spouse. Not literally, but just, like, even just how, like, oh, you don't understand what I'm doing here and everything else.

00:44:53:09 - 00:45:15:10
Speaker 1
It's a crazy thing they signed up for. And the fact that they're still around is worth a lot, because it is nuts being strapped to a rocket ship that's never been to space. It's nuts. I mean, if you think about what you're asking them to do, if they're like, I'm holding on, but I'm not lacking it, there's a lot of weird things that we don't see that kind of grace right away.

00:45:15:10 - 00:45:33:16
Speaker 1
It's very easy to dismiss is not important. And I think it's not till later in life after you kind of make it through the stratosphere and start figuring out what it looks like and how all these things work, it seems to me that it's easier to go like, again, that's connecting backwards. Easier than looking forward. Seems like, oh yeah, this was all kind of put together.

00:45:33:18 - 00:45:46:07
Speaker 1
I appreciate you saying that though, because I think there's a lot of folks out there that maybe give up on it too soon too, because they think, oh, I don't like it didn't seem like we're chemistry's work. And she's not into this. He's not into this. Heck, nobody's into that.

00:45:46:07 - 00:45:48:09
Speaker 2
I said, dark years, not dark days.

00:45:48:09 - 00:45:49:19
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's you know, there's a.

00:45:49:19 - 00:46:10:13
Speaker 2
Long haul. And to your point, when one thing that really helped me and maybe it'll help a listener, I heard a leadership talk about Andy Stanley, talked about seasons and we we kind of as humans will adopt things as forever when they're not, you know, when you have young kids, you know, when our kids. So my kids are there, you know, sophomore, junior, senior.

00:46:10:13 - 00:46:12:14
Speaker 2
This past year in high school. So they're back to back to back.

00:46:12:14 - 00:46:13:02
Speaker 1
Wow man.

00:46:13:07 - 00:46:29:23
Speaker 2
And so, you know that means we had A1A2 and a three year old. And this idea is like we don't sleep anymore. You know these kids are up all the time, you know, and you're like, no. For a season, we didn't sleep as much for a season. And and I had a friend who had young kids and he's like, he loves movies.

00:46:29:23 - 00:46:53:21
Speaker 2
He loves going to the movies. And he was lamenting about this. And, you know, for a season, you're not going to go to the movies. If we can adopt this idea of, hey, look, this is hard. It's a season. This is a hard season of my life. It's easier for us to say, but there's a light at the end of this tunnel, and if we can make it through the season, I mean, you is our marriage.

00:46:53:23 - 00:47:12:10
Speaker 2
Hey, this is a tough season. Let's let's lock arms on this and know that we're going to get through this. It's when we start thinking this is perpetual. This will never end. And most of the time that's a lie. But it's a lie we tell ourselves pretty often. And if we get caught in that, then we want to quit.

00:47:12:13 - 00:47:18:21
Speaker 1
Then we want to quit. And the opposite is true too, right? We think the good is forever too. Oh, you start building your life. That's where the that.

00:47:18:21 - 00:47:19:23
Speaker 2
Was easier does.

00:47:20:05 - 00:47:23:11
Speaker 1
That's the lifestyle creep starts coming in. That's right. We're going to be good forever.

00:47:23:11 - 00:47:24:00
Speaker 2
That's exactly.

00:47:24:00 - 00:47:27:15
Speaker 1
Right. You know. And let's overextend ourselves and all those other things, you know.

00:47:27:15 - 00:47:52:21
Speaker 2
Well the whole idea of the biggest threat to future success is current success. Yeah. Because our default mode is complacency, not not urgency. And, you know, that whole that whole thought just blew my mind a few years ago. My biggest threat to succeeding in the future is the fact that I'm successful now. And leaders are disruptors. They go in especially when you're successful and they say, hey, what are we doing?

00:47:52:23 - 00:48:06:13
Speaker 2
Why are we moving this slow? I don't want the the phone to ring more than one ring. I want us to pick it up. Hey, if we got the money and we get a bill in, I don't care if it's 30 day net pay it. We are going to adopt urgency in this organization because that's what leaders do.

00:48:06:13 - 00:48:20:17
Speaker 2
They're disruptors. They're constantly disrupting because they know there are default mode is comfort. Our default mode is never urgency. And so leaders are always trying to create that urgency in other people because they know the default mode is what it is.

00:48:20:19 - 00:48:42:11
Speaker 1
What do you got going on now, man? What are the things I imagine after so many years of just grinding and building? You've got several businesses that you're involved with. Yeah. What's the world look like for wide now? Still very I mean, you talked about delivering a wheelbarrow, but is it the same kind of things where you're jumping on and off trucks, or is it a lot more a lot I, I love and hate the word strategy.

00:48:42:11 - 00:49:02:03
Speaker 1
Sure. Because it's kind of a, I think a consulting cop out to make it seem like you're doing something very intellectually important when the reality of it is most strategies are companies disguised careers opinion. But most strategies for companies were backwards engineered from just a bunch of tactical stuff that actually happened. And you found a couple of things that worked, and then you said it was a strategy.

00:49:02:05 - 00:49:07:19
Speaker 1
But I'm curious, what is the work that you're doing now? I imagine it's different.

00:49:07:21 - 00:49:32:16
Speaker 2
So it is different and I don't recommend it for everybody. And I said earlier, I feel specifically called to be a serial entrepreneur. And it started about 2018 when a close friend of mine comes to me and says, hey, I'm going to go start a flooring company that just does carpet. And he pitched the idea and the idea, the specific idea or his strategy.

00:49:32:16 - 00:49:46:09
Speaker 2
I'll use that word that he pitched him. He was brilliant. It was so smart. And I said, oh man, do it like I love it. And he's like, well, you know, the URL is going to be 2500. And I was like, dude, I'll write you a check right now. Like, you know, as a friend, just go do it.

00:49:46:09 - 00:50:03:03
Speaker 2
I believe in you this much. Well, that guy went and started the company, then comes back to me about six months later and says, hey man, I really feel like I need a business partner. He says, I don't need you in the office every day. I want someone to bounce ideas off of. I need an advisor. Would you want to would you want to buy in?

00:50:03:03 - 00:50:20:19
Speaker 2
I say, if you ever if you ever give equity away again, I will. I will punch you in the face. Like this is the most precious thing. Don't do this. I'll help you but know like how you know. And he comes back to me about six months later and he says, I really, really want you to be my business partner.

00:50:20:21 - 00:50:39:22
Speaker 2
And I said, you know, let me give it some thought. And at this point, I was so focused on Square Cow, the company we started in 2008, and I started thinking about, you know, what? I can I can give this guy a couple hours of my time a week. And so I invested in that business, and that business is taken off.

00:50:39:22 - 00:51:01:16
Speaker 2
It's a carpet company. So now we have moving and we have carpet. And then I had you know, my friend who's done all our marketing, you want to go out and start a marketing agency. And I invested in that, took a little piece of that and then, you know, get to know a local builder here in Austin, and he's got a service business where they're the handyman service to this big luxury homes.

00:51:01:16 - 00:51:24:15
Speaker 2
And, you know, I just wanted to meet him. You know, I just admire what he's done and sit down with him for a couple meetings. And before I know it, I'm business with him and trying to build this handyman business. So what's the thread here? The thread is mostly home services. I'm particularly good at going in the living room of people, specifically families.

00:51:24:15 - 00:51:44:09
Speaker 2
Two and a half kids and a dog going into their living room and saying, hey, I will serve you well. How how can we do this? Let you know whether it's carpet or whether it's moving or whether it's Handyman Services. That is my lane. And I'm running that lane, but it's opened up other opportunities. You know, I just invested in a Western wear company, which is kind of interesting.

00:51:44:09 - 00:51:54:20
Speaker 2
I'll talk to you more about that later. But you know, I got here in Austin. Whoo hoo! Really great story. It's called Saint Western. He got alopecia about six years ago.

00:51:54:20 - 00:51:55:07
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:51:55:07 - 00:52:14:10
Speaker 2
And all his hair is falling out. And here's a guy who loves, you know, to dressed to the nines. He's really, really sharp dresser, really cool, full sleeve tattoos kind of guy. You know, I'm always like, I just got done, like. Like sailing, you know what I mean? Like, this guy looks like like a real, like a real man's man.

00:52:14:10 - 00:52:31:19
Speaker 2
And, he, he he started making custom hats because he wanted to cover up his head. So then they come up with this crazy story, come out with the miracle drug, and his hair comes back in, but he's been making hats, and he starts making these hats, and it starts picking up and. And then now it's turned into this business.

00:52:31:19 - 00:52:46:17
Speaker 2
And so we just invested in that and brought this guy into a space that we have for him to run that business. And so that's now I'm getting to do some fun things, which I don't know anything about that, but I'm I'm curious about it. And I've got these other things that are working that are making me money.

00:52:46:17 - 00:53:04:11
Speaker 2
And so why can't I go and have some fun over here and see what happens? Yeah, I'm a three. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm an achiever. And so my fun is to go and build things. And so, you know, I want to help this guy out. He needs some help. And so helping him run with Saint Western my goodness that's dessert for me.

00:53:04:13 - 00:53:22:00
Speaker 2
And so you know there's a there's another company that I'm kicking the tires on. They build they build, you know, docks and decks and those kinds of things. And again I mentioned I live in a, I live on a lake and you know, I'm like, you know, not very many people doing great work in that area, in my opinion, that I'm aware of.

00:53:22:01 - 00:53:32:04
Speaker 2
Maybe, you know, that's a home service. You know, so you ask me what I'm doing, I'm doing a lot, and a really like all the things that I'm doing.

00:53:32:04 - 00:53:48:05
Speaker 2
I'll tell you this, ten out of ten times I'm more interested in the jockey than the horse. Every time the moving company, my brother in law and my dad, I would invest with them ten out of ten times all day.

00:53:48:05 - 00:54:06:12
Speaker 2
My brother in law is a mule. He will work five years with a truck. I never heard him complain. One time. That one time I complained all the time. You know what I mean? My carpet now business partner got him been. I would invest in him ten out of ten times. Whatever idea he has. He's that kind of guy.

00:54:06:12 - 00:54:27:08
Speaker 2
You invest in. And so these businesses, the guy with the Saints Western I'm investing in him, not the business. I'm of us in him. He is a he is a hustler. And I don't mean that in any derogatory way. I mean, he get out there and work, he makes things happen and he networks. And so most of my investment strategy is around the jockey more than it is the horse.

00:54:27:10 - 00:54:36:06
Speaker 2
And so if I believe in somebody and I believe they've got a dog inside them and they've got a good idea, man, I want to get behind that. It's fun. That's dessert for me.

00:54:36:17 - 00:54:54:15
Speaker 1
I mean, it's, it's clear to me that, yeah. What part of your secret sauce about being able to do so much and I imagine, well, is because you have a core jockey in that thing that's running the thing. Where does Wade sit in that as a partner, do you find that there's a specific gift you have in that?

00:54:54:17 - 00:55:07:02
Speaker 1
Obviously my mind, you know, obviously great vision and driver. What is the other thing that you find is a common thread amongst all these businesses that if they were going to pay you a compliment, they'd say, why does this the best for us?

00:55:07:07 - 00:55:24:10
Speaker 2
I would hope that they would say that Wade finds a way to fill the gaps. And so, you know, the Saint Western, Derrick say, hey, man, I don't know anything about business. I mean, I got you. I've got somebody that can help with their finances and bookkeeping and get us set up, and we'll get an LLC. I can do all that.

00:55:24:10 - 00:55:39:19
Speaker 2
I'm going to fill that gap. You go find your lane, you do what you do. And let me figure out all the people that need to come alongside you. I'm going to fill that gap, you know, for square cow right now and selling franchises. You know, I'm the best guy to go in and pitch. And so I show up and that's the gap they have.

00:55:40:00 - 00:56:02:19
Speaker 2
We've got a brilliant operator guy named Cole that does franchise development. He's so good. He's not a salesman. What's the gap? Somebody is coming to sell these things. So I'll go in there and I'll do the dog and pony show. And I love it. And so what I would hope my business partners at every business would say is, hey, if there's a gap, if Wade can't fill it himself, he found somebody that can that's top notch.

00:56:02:21 - 00:56:23:00
Speaker 2
And he holds him accountable. So I can go do the thing that only I can do. You know, if if a leader there are there are tasks that only a leader should be doing. And the quicker they can shed themselves, the things they shouldn't be doing and they can just focus on the stuff they should be doing, the quicker that thing's going to grow.

00:56:23:02 - 00:56:37:11
Speaker 2
You know, at first you can't. You got to keep a hundred balls in there. You got to do the bookkeeping and do all that, but as quickly as you can. And so my goal was to help them shed those things that are, that are anchors to the ship, dragging along the bottom of the ocean so they can sail and they can get the stuff done.

00:56:37:11 - 00:56:38:10
Speaker 2
That has to be done.

00:56:38:12 - 00:56:50:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's got to be powerful for them. I also imagine that it's, it's something you probably don't want to say effortless, but it doesn't. Like you said, it's like dessert. It's probably a thing that you. I mean, it just keeps feeding the fire.

00:56:50:08 - 00:56:51:02
Speaker 2
I love it.

00:56:51:04 - 00:57:05:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's the thing that I think for a lot of folks from a self-awareness perspective, sometimes hard to put a finger on it early days because there are a lot of obligations and duties. You just have to get it done. Yeah, but it's hopefully not losing a hand on the pulse of when you can. What does that stuff look like?

00:57:05:22 - 00:57:28:16
Speaker 1
And I think that's probably the hardest at some point is shedding that because you feel like maybe one is somebody else going to do it as good or two you feel some kind of guilt. Because you feel like you should keep doing it when the reality of it is that a friend of mine, man, he's, him and his family, run a pretty big they own a pretty big piece of junk in Africa there, and they run a preserve out that way.

00:57:28:16 - 00:57:51:13
Speaker 1
And he, he kind of said something along the lines of, there was a point in time where I recognize that the thing my folks needed me to be the best at was me. Because that's a hard thing to do. He goes because it seems guilty. Like, what do you mean? I just got to be me. Now, what he does for a living is galvanize a lot of attention for what they do because of how he is.

00:57:51:13 - 00:58:15:08
Speaker 1
He's charismatic. He can really just bring gravity, magnetism to a thing. He has got immediate trust building. He goes, and when I started was trying to help all these other things. You guys, it was not. It was wearing me out and not allowing me to be the very like the thing they need me to be. The thing that I have in my mind is like, nobody tells the F1 driver, hey, I need you to also like load the tires, do these things because, you know, be a good team player.

00:58:15:12 - 00:58:28:04
Speaker 1
So I know, man, I need you to drive the crap out of that car. That's right. That's the only thing I need you to do is win. Because if we win, then everything else is fine. That's right. And I think that's how it did. You have a guilt moment? Did you have that moment where it was hard to break that piece?

00:58:28:06 - 00:58:47:01
Speaker 2
So I feel like one of the things I'm pretty good at is, is, you know, giving things away. You know, leadership, the most basic definition is set clear expectations and hold people accountable. And it's most basic. I have set very clear expectations of what I'm expecting from you. And now I'm going to hold you accountable. And that sounds kind of punitive.

00:58:47:01 - 00:59:14:07
Speaker 2
It's not meant to be, but that's really good leadership where you I know what winning is here. And I know my boss is paying attention and he's going to come alongside and either say, hey, we need to work on this or man, you're killing it. And so I've always been pretty good at that. Those two pieces, when I was talking about going to my kid's school and doing career day, I would take a friend of mine who's a doctor, his lab coat, and I would put on the lab coat in front of the kids, and I'd say, guys, I want you to pretend that I'm a surgeon.

00:59:14:09 - 00:59:32:19
Speaker 2
I would say, what do you think about surgeons and these kids? Or shoot their hand up like, man, surgeons make so much money, so much. And this is always the answer. I'm like, you're right, I said, but I want you to think about this. A surgeon makes as much as his two hands can make him. An entrepreneur is leveraged by other people.

00:59:32:21 - 00:59:55:04
Speaker 2
So if a surgeon is here talking to you guys, in theory, he's not making money. And I'm making money right now as I'm speaking to you guys, this very basic understanding of business really hit me early on, which is I am leveraged by other people. And so if I'm going to go do the thing that only I should be doing, which is in my lane, it's shooting out front on that walking sidewalk at the airport.

00:59:55:06 - 01:00:11:00
Speaker 2
That means I've got to have other people doing the things I'm really terrible at. And man, there are some things like accounting. I'm really good with money. I'm really good at reading a PNL, but if I had to put it together like I'd literally do not care if it's $10,000 off. Yeah, but I'm smart enough to know that I need to.

01:00:11:00 - 01:00:37:07
Speaker 2
And somebody on my team that does care. And so I need to go find someone that cares deeply if it's a dollar off. And so I have to from an early stage, I was I was very aware that this is only going to work if we're leveraged by other people. So how quickly can we hire a driver, teach him about our culture, make him evangelize our culture, and then send him out to do what he did, and then go find another one for another truck and do it over and over and over.

01:00:37:09 - 01:00:47:12
Speaker 2
It's all through the duplication that we're going to be able to do this. And so for whatever reason, that whole idea really came to me, came to came clear to me pretty early.

01:00:47:14 - 01:01:06:23
Speaker 1
When, yeah, when you think about and as we're closing out, I mean, wait, thank you brother. This has been I could talk to you for hours. I think, and then the thing that I'm always trying to figure out how to help folks recognize in themselves or in others, if they have what it takes to lead this life.

01:01:07:01 - 01:01:25:16
Speaker 1
What are the things that, as you look at those jockeys, you bet on that stick out to you as common factors? I know they all have different personalities and styles. Probably, but what are the core things for maybe a character perspective that you go like that need or do that is just winner? Like that person is going to figure it out no matter what.

01:01:25:16 - 01:01:29:11
Speaker 1
What is that in him that you can see grit.

01:01:29:13 - 01:02:04:19
Speaker 2
And I wish there was a better word, because I feel like the word has been watered down over the last few years. Yeah, we talk about this a lot. You know what? How do you judge the the dog and somebody and, you know, if you have a way of or some kind of aptitude test or some way of judging that and somebody, they have to have the ability to stick with somebody, stick with a business or a task or a job through what a lot of people would feel like are impossible situations.

01:02:04:21 - 01:02:28:14
Speaker 2
And the grit in somebody. It's the thing when you get done, you know, at midnight working, you get back up and you can do it again the next day at 6 a.m., and you do it over and over. Not for a long weekend, not for a tough summer, for a couple of years. In the beginning, that piece I know I would you know, what is, Patrick and Tony?

01:02:28:14 - 01:03:05:23
Speaker 2
It's, it's humble, hungry and smart, you know, and so somebody that that has humility to to be self-aware, that's what. Humility. They're smart. Yeah, but they're hungry. The fire in the belly is the piece that is really, really elusive. And I don't know how you do it without it. I don't, you know, I've always said, I don't care if you're the smartest person in the room, I don't I don't really care if you're, you know, if you've got the fire in the belly, then you you will not you won't take no you you'll hear 100 no's.

01:03:06:01 - 01:03:14:05
Speaker 2
And for you, that's just. Hey come on. Yeah. Let's go. And so that grit is the best. The best quality in my opinion.

01:03:14:06 - 01:03:21:13
Speaker 1
You look for track record or are you mainly looking for what they're doing in the moment as they're talking to you? Are you looking at both or is there something that kind of helps you sniff that out?

01:03:21:13 - 01:03:39:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, track record matters for sure. Most everybody that I've invested in, I've known for a number of years. And so I've seen, you know, what they. And then and then there's, there's a, there's a runway there where we're getting to know each other. And I'm judging along the way of, you know, their level of, of, of commitment and that kind of thing.

01:03:39:01 - 01:03:50:17
Speaker 2
So, there are some factors in there that, that feel obvious, that grit and perseverance is so big. Everything else is really a distant second for me. Yeah.

01:03:50:19 - 01:04:00:10
Speaker 1
What, as we close out way to anything exciting that you have on top of mind right now, that even if it's personal, just anything that you're getting fired up about here is in the immediate future.

01:04:00:12 - 01:04:20:02
Speaker 2
You know, that's such a good question. You know, I need to. I tell you what I, I need to pause and think about that kind of thing more than I do, actually, I give people advice about this. Like, you need a young guy who owns a vintage, clothing shop. I've got to know from my church, and he.

01:04:20:02 - 01:04:34:06
Speaker 2
He reaches out to me for advice from time to time, and he just got a permanent retail shop, and he's been looking we've been talking about this for months, and I'm so proud of him. And I text me the dress. I mean, you need to stop and celebrate. Like, I don't care if it's a steak dinner. I don't care if it's a staycation, man.

01:04:34:06 - 01:04:53:21
Speaker 2
Like, stop. And I give that advice because I'm so terrible at it. You know, you could ask me that a year from now. What are you excited about? And I'm kind of like, oh, you know, I'm excited about some of these new investments. I'm excited about where some things are going, but man, I really am not great at stopping and and kind of celebrating.

01:04:53:21 - 01:05:03:04
Speaker 2
And I need to get better about that. I need to stop and say, what am I excited about? You know, just on one foot in front of the other. And so that's an area that that I really, I really need to work on.

01:05:03:08 - 01:05:22:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, it's great because you. Yeah. As a working. Yeah. It's Roger and I mean this complimentary man because I kind of resonate the same way or probably can relate a lot. Reminds me of I have a, I have a hunting dog, a working dog, and, I don't know that he thinks he didn't delineate happiness and work like, to them.

01:05:22:05 - 01:05:42:06
Speaker 1
It's kind of the same. It's like existing that's live for him. And I think it's the way guys like that like, probably like or kind of cut from, you know, what's hard to get excited about is it's almost like I want to call it obligatory, but there's just something about the way you live that doesn't seem like there's anything special about it, because it's like the only way you know how to.

01:05:42:06 - 01:05:49:12
Speaker 2
Be 100%. That's a that's. Never heard anybody put that, succinctly, but you're exactly right. Yeah.

01:05:49:12 - 01:06:05:15
Speaker 1
So it's finding ways to probably, I don't know, maybe our wives can continue to humble us or whatever it might be. But wait, brother, thank you for coming on today. I think not only are you going to help a lot of folks out there, as you've done before, and we want to thank you. I mean, you've helped, aspiring owners before and folks who want to pursue this path.

01:06:05:15 - 01:06:22:04
Speaker 1
But I think more than anything else, just the raw, candid feedback. You know, part of the thing that this entire even show came together was to help folks really kind of understand the humans behind it all, because ultimately it is the whole this, the whole jockey. You know, I could put an incredible human behind any kind of business.

01:06:22:04 - 01:06:31:08
Speaker 1
And it'll be great because I'll figure out a way to win, you know, whatever it might be. And so I just want to say thanks for being an example of that and and giving us a ton more examples to reflect on.

01:06:31:08 - 01:06:38:20
Speaker 2
Man, it's my pleasure. I love, like I said, I love hanging out here. I love seeing you guys. And so anything I can do to serve you guys, I feel is a privilege.

01:06:39:00 - 01:06:42:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, we'll definitely be calling on you, man. And as we already have. So thanks for everything you do.

01:06:42:23 - 01:06:44:03
Speaker 2
You got it.

01:06:44:03 - 01:07:10:09
Speaker 1
Thanks for tuning in to the American Operator Podcast, where we celebrate the backbone of America small business owners and operators like you. If you've enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe so you'll never miss out on more of these stories and insights from people who keep our community strong. Until next time, keep building, keep operating and keep America moving forward.