Wheel Chat - Your Go-To Mobility Podcast

Wheel Chat: Episode 14 – First-Time Power Mobility, Growth Planning & Small Fixes with Big Impact

• Wheel Chat • Season 1 • Episode 14

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In this episode of Wheel Chat, Anton Mitchell and Justin Boulos catch up to unpack a few standout cases from their week—including a powerful moment of first-time independent mobility for a young client with complex cerebral palsy needs.

From clever adaptations and growth planning to the value of simplicity and knowing when not to start from scratch, this conversation is packed with practical strategies, clinical insights, and those feel-good moments that remind us why we do what we do.

What’s in this episode:

  • Power wheelchair trial success: driving down fear and up a steep Blue Mountains driveway
  • Smart scripting for abduction, post-op spinal supports, and custom footrests
  • Simple tips for supporting safe learning in first-time power mobility users
  • Growth management in children’s wheelchairs: depth, width, and practical workarounds
  • Knowing when to refurbish vs. replace—and why a small fix can make a big difference
  • Why reps (yes, reps!) need to write better notes
  • The importance of celebrating small wins in the assessment and delivery process

Whether you're a therapist, rep, parent, or AT enthusiast, this episode is full of the real-world reflections and relatable wins that make Wheel Chat what it is.

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Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of Anthony and Justin.

Anton: Hello and good morning, or good afternoon, good evening; wherever we're coming from, you are listening to Wheel Chat and it is amazing day today in Leeds. Where are we at, Justin? Hello pal. Where are you? 

Justin: Good day mate. It's good to hear you've finally got some good, the good weather going on. Every time I talk to you, I feel like it's always different. But no, we're beautiful here. We had a massive heat wave on the weekend which is just 'ooh' ... And but no it's cooled down much more today, so that's beautiful. 

Anton: Amazing! Guys, thanks for tuning in again to our latest episode of Wheel Chat. We're absolutely buzzing; things are going really well over at Wheel Chat HQ / Wheel Chat HQ Australia.

So yeah, no, we are absolutely buzzing. We've had some amazing guests recently, haven't we? But we are here this morning just to, you know, chew the fat. How's things going? How's your week been Justin? 

Justin: Yeah, good mate; week was good. Had a good day today actually! I had a delivery for a young girl who was in a manual wheelchair, meaning that she kind of had those push handles that, like those really thick,rubbery ones to help push but she didn't realistically ever push them.

It's just kind of what she had and months ago we did a trial for a power wheelchair, as an idea to help both carers and her and give her the opportunity for intermittent mobility. It went just beautifully today. 

Anton: Yeah. 

Justin: She had a really, she had a really complex setup. She had CP, complex setup, a lot of things going on. She's never really functionally mobilised herself independently. And to see her ability to do it today was just... beautiful. 

Anton: Oh, amazing. So, listen.... I want to drill your brain on this. I know everyone probably listening's going to want to as well, so I'm going to just drill that down because that sounds amazing and we all get it; It's all lovely. But right talk us through. You went in, you saw she was in a manual wheelchair, she had rubber push rims right? That's what I've just picked up from you. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Anton: What manual wheelchair was she in? 

Justin: It is an Australian manufactured one. It's called a SIC wheelchair so it's like a rigid, so it's basically a rigid frame wheelchair.

Anton: So nothing-

Justin: Nothing fancy. They don't lift it and put into the car. It gets transported through vehicle transport. So it's one of those things where you think, why that? Why? This is I always say to therapists don't always just replicate what's previously been done. Always try to challenge things and always try to push things to get more of a level of independence.

And luckily this OT, she was very experienced and she was completely on board with doing this. So we got called out for a power wheelchair trial. Did she drive well when we did the trial? Mate, of course not. Mate, I doubt anybody here would've would be that great. She had-

Anton: Yeah.

Justin: She had visual issues thanks to her CP. She had, her upper limb function was pretty good. But yeah, she's got a lot of tone going on with her posture, which makes things hard. There's a bit of intellectual disability in there as well. But she is a trooper. She was excited, she was nervous, she was all that stuff. So we did a trial and she lives in the Blue Mountains, which as you probably know, is a bit more of a, as you can imagine, it's a mountainous area and she has a driveway that was like super steep.

She gets petrified going up and down this driveway in a manual chair. She just... because you know, imagine on a manual chair when you're not tilting, you're coming down...the anxiety strikes through. She hates doing it. She has to go in the car every time they go in the driveway. So she can't really leave the house unless it's via the car.

But now-

Anton: Okay. 

Justin: Thanks to having a bit of tilt - she was very nervous about it when we first did it - we have tilt and so when she goes down her steep driveway, she felt quite safe. 

Anton: Amazing. 

Justin: And she's quite small. So we were thinking about what chair did we go? We want a nice compact chair to, you know, when you're going from manual wheelchair to power chair, you don't really want a big chair to change.

So we thought whats small? What's a good compact, power wheelchair. What would you consider for someone like that go into a power wheelchair now, bit of a hilly environment, needs some grunt, needs some power. What would you be considering Anton? 

Anton: I would go probably, I mean, I'd be considering probably the Q300 Quickie. I'd go, probably the DIETZ Sango mid wheel drive slim line. I'd probably go Permobil M3 maybe; something like that, possibly. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Anton: Invacare if you are still considering that, TDX still do a slim line, TDX. I'd probably be in that region-ish. I mean, there's plenty I can keep going with but-

 

Justin: No, no.

Anton: They were, they would probably be in there. What, did you try? 

Justin: Yeah, yeah and that was kind of what we went with. We ended up going with the Q300 mini which is a great chair, good suspension, eight inch casters, four pole motors, though it does well with the hills and in her terrain was, was quite good. You know, not everywhere's quite smooth there. 

Anton: Nice. 

Justin: It does pretty good on the off road. And because she had quite unique setup up, well not even that unique. I don't know if you have this one as well, but we have a lot of kids that need to sit in a certain amount of abduction. So we did a Spex cushion that was, I think it was 15 inches wide at the back and maybe 18 inches wide at the front; can't remember the exact measurements. 

Anton: So if anyone just is like picking up all the lingo, abduction = separation of the legs. Is that the best way to describe it? 

Justin: Yeah. Knees go out wide. Knees go out wide, how umm yeah and sometimes that's necessary. I actually don't know the long-term sitting benefits of this. And I know we spoke about this with Ruben in one of our early episodes, and I would actually love to get one of the orthopedic surgeons on the podcast and ask him about it because sometimes it's like you need to sit like in abduction post-surgery. 

Anton: Yeah. 

Justin: And for some kids it's 'no, we have to sit like this for years' and I just hear different things but I'm not an expert in the need of abduction sit in. We did have Ruben on and I still feel a bit like, like I personally feel like I need a bit more information as to why, but for whatever reason that was the guidelines- 

Anton: Yeah. Yeah. 

Justin: To sit in abduction. So luckily with Spex- Go on?

Anton: No, sorry Justin. I'm obviously into it, but when you were saying you were guided just for the reason, because if anyone's in the similar boat to yourself and myself, you take obviously lead from the professional or if it's been passed down from the orthopedic surgeon, whatever, the reason being that you had the remit that actually they needed to be in abduction, right? So did they give you any reasoning behind that? Like you know, did they say she needs to be into abduction because she has had this or because if we don't do this, it's going to put too much pressure on the pelvis? She could have, you know, dislocation? Like were...any feedback on that?

Justin: Yeah, in this case I didn't ask too much. Because again, it comes up quite often but generally it's because of you've got a ball and socket joint and then the ball, the femur, the your leg bone it doesn't sit into your hip bone socket all too well when you sit in and when, usually it's when you're growing. It kind of helps that form, because when you're meant to grow standing and when you grow sitting, that causes problems. But long term, you know, she's about 16 years old now so... I'm not sure. 

Anton: Okay. 

Justin: I'd love to explore that more. Yeah. But that was the, I guess the guidance. So what we did was hand to lever armrests, meaning armrests that don't have the stem underneath it, so that allowed her legs to sit wider and we could still maintain the back rest. So the chair frame was like 15 inches wide, and so the back of the chair was 15 inches and there's a little bit of like a wedge on each side that would be overhanging on the chair, but that's okay. I mean, the cushion's got enough structure where it wasn't an issue, but that allowed our armrests to stay nice and snug. Because I wouldn't want to build the chair eight inches wide. But then it's, now the chair's not narrow. Now the arm rest are out, further out than they need to be. So it allows us to keep the chair in, have their legs sort of sit under the arm. 

Anton: Sweet. Nice. 

Justin: But when you, but when you've got really abducted legs, you're going to need to put the foot, the feet on something and usually I'm a big centre mount guy and you kind of have to do centre mount now because you can't do swing waves or that you need to swing waves. But you have to do centre mount but now you have to do an extra wide footboard. So what I did was, again, leaned on Spex on this one because she had feet with a lot of different postures, internal rotation, diversion, all that kind of stuff was going on with the legs.

She needed a bit of padding. So Anton and everyone else, fun, fun hack that I do. I go to Spex and I order a custom thigh guide. I ordered a big one. I ordered like a 20 inch wide thigh guide. And whatever depth it was. And we used that as like a foot plate. So now I've got a nice metal frame and padding to use as a foot plate.

Anton: Nice. Okay I mean, that'd be cool to show people if they were listening but I don't know if even that's possible. I don't know if you have that available or whatever? 

Justin: I've got the, I've got the, I've got the photo here so let me, if anyone wants to tune in on the, on the video version of this, this is the example of it.

So this is the client's feet. This is just temporarily mounted because we weren't sure what we wanted to do. Because in the back of her car, I mean there's so much to this story. We can stick going all day. But yeah, because the length of the car mod that she had, we were very conscious of the length of the chair. So, we actually built the foot plate to be whatever size she needed. So we didn't need to go the excess if we don't need to. So once, I didn't want to cut the chair until we checked everything. So we've temporarily mounted the foot plate like this. So it's a very long padded foot plate, but that allows it to support her feet and we can chop this off. She does have a leg coming out a bit more over here still. So even though we've got a disc- super high contour cushion, it's still coming out. We spoke about foot cups and straps. What 16-year-old girl wants to wear foot cups and foot straps to keep her feet neutral? 

Anton: Yeah.

Justin: So they're discussing that with the physio. So until we have a plan, we're just happy with this for now. But that's essentially the go. So you can see there the cushion's a bit wider than it is at the front. Then yeah she recently had spinal surgery as well. So, we have laterals but didn't necessarily, they're just there to prompt her from when she gets tired.

We had the swing-away lateral pads, but given she's got spinal surgery she's not going to, we're not trying to prevent a scoliosis or do anything because you've got metal rods in your back and your back's not going anywhere. What we really want is just to stop you from, you know, when you get tired or fatigued throughout the day just something to give her a bit of support. 

Anton: Okay. 

Justin: And then they gave her an NIVOflex belt to make it easy to click and yeah! 

Anton: I love it. I love it. Okay, so that's a success. We look at that as a success. 

Justin: Great success. Well, the better success was the fact that she drove; this is the first time she's been able to independently mobilise by herself. Again, wasn't a great track. But what we did, we took it to the playground, big open AstroTurf area, and we just let her go free reign. The cue that I always give people when they're in these situations is eyes on my shoes, and I stand in front of them and I'm like, stand about 10 metres away. And I say, "Keep your eyes on my shoes."

And just point to that, because people always tend to look at the joystick. They look at the joystick, look at the joystick. I'm like, "Hey yeah, over here. Look at my shoes. Look at my shoes!" 

It was funny. She did not respond to it. She kept looking at the joystick. We couldn't get her to go, until I put my foot about one metre away from the castor wheels.

And I was like, "Don't drive over my foot, don't drive over my foot!" 

And then all of a sudden it's BOOM, straight my foot! 

Anton: I love that. 

Justin: So it's always like destruction, excitement, cheekiness always responds better than logic. So if you're working with a kid, if you've got boxes, if you've got cushions like put it really close and just give it like half a metre. "Can you do this?" 

Eyes lock in on the box, eyes lock in on the foot. "Yep, I can do that." 

And then you want to start building it away. So even I'm, even I'm learning right? I've always tend to do this looking my feet. So with kids going back, I probably should just started with the, "Hey, run over my foot!" and get her excited over that.

And then... 

Anton: No I, that resonates with me massively. Like I normally, it's funny you're on the other side of the pond and I'm saying similar things and we've never had this discussion, but I don't use the feet as such, but I say probably more not with my kids because again, I do a similar thing with kids, which we'll come to, but with adults I'll say look, look at the, whatever you're wanting to go to, look at that. So if you're wanting to get to the television, if we're in a nursing home, or if we're outside and we want to get to the lamppost, for instance, look at that lamppost and point your hand towards the lamppost and you'll go that way, right? 

Justin: Absolutely. 

Anton: And because you're right the natural, and we, it's so hard to think because we've been driving wheelchairs ourselves in terms of demos and stuff for years and years. So you don't remember what you do, but you probably would've looked down initially. Of course you would've because, but I always say when you walk you don't look at the ground when you walk. You don't look at your feet when you walk, you look ahead.

Justin: When you drive, you don't look at the steering wheel, do you?

Anton: Yeah, exactly. But it's cool like that you're saying that. And then, with kids, I, I often just have a game, exactly like you say. I'll just say "you can't catch me." Because as soon as you say you can't do something to a kid, they're going to try and do it. Right?! So, you know, I always just play the game.

Justin: Just like me mate; you tell me I can't do something, mate.... watch me! 

Anton: Yeah, it's probably the same, you're right. It's probably we're all the same, right? But like with kids, it's fun. So that's like, that's really cool. Anything else happening this week so far? 

Justin: That was a good one. What else have I done? Well, you tell me about you while I think about it, mate. What is, where, how's your, tell me it's only Monday where we are, but how was your week last week? 

Anton: Yeah, true. You know, it feels like a week already. I've only just got up but, but no I had a nice week last week. Had loads going on. I was, I suppose the thing that I was thinking about was a guy... we'd been out like a month ago. It was actually one of my colleagues. I just did the handover because he was off on holiday, but about a month ago he went out. I was reading the notes, which is really important why you write notes. I don't know, do you guys like, are reps writing good notes over there? Like I'm quite into writing detailed notes after assessments. I think that's really important. I know I, I know the therapist will do that naturally because they're doing justifications and the right, and that's the right thing, but I don't think reps in, in general probably write a lot of notes; I'm just going to put it out there! You can send in your comment to us at Wheel Chat if you totally disagree and I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I'm not a betting man, but I'm going to put a bet out that people are just like writing a prescription form, writing maybe a note that's relative to that, but like we should be writing notes more because my colleague had written excellent notes on this, so I had some really good detail going in. Wh-you guys writing good notes, Justin? 

Justin: Nah, I mean, I mean, look, I do it like we have our own internal systems where we put, you know, what we want on the quote and all the parts, and we'll put like notes as to, from notes from the trial. Half of the people do it. It's hard to say. I know with myself I could be better at it. I'll do it for the really complex ones or when I know I've done something that's a bit weird. If someone does need to hand it over, they need to know why I've done this, but I'll always, no excuse, always take photos of trials, deliveries, everything. And I think if you can't take notes, if you don't want to do that, photo at least just to see what cushion you trialled. And you might even know by the cushion you trialled or the chair, what size that is. And you can see, 'oh, that was actually too deep, so why didn't we go shorter or longer?'

You know, you, there's a lot of evidence in photos that people can derive from. So if you're an ATP or an OT photos while they're in their current chair, you know, while doing the trial chair and at the delivery chair, they should, you should have one photo of each of those stages. 

Anton: Nice. Nice tip. Yeah, so we he'd basically gone out, done the assessment. We, there'd been a couple of companies out before us. He had a set of Twion wheels, which is like an Alber product. And I'm, I know you'll be aware of that, I'm sure but for anyone out there it's like a power assist, self-propel wheel.

So when you push, when you go to propel the wheel, it will give you certain rotations more so like if you push it, instead of it pushing once and you get one rotation, you push it once and it give you like three rotations, right? Like- 

Justin: Turns you into Superman. 

Anton: Yeah, exactly. Anyway, he had this product for years.

He really loved them, didn't want to get rid of them. But the other companies, for whatever reason, and I'm not judging because I think we can all fall suit, is that they wanted to prescribe him new wheels of... there's new wheels that subsequently come out or other options available since he's obviously had the Twions.

And to be fair, from the notes that I could read and the pictures that my colleague had taken, he maybe didn't look after, in fact I'm not even like it was a state. The chair that he had, it was an absolute state... but there was nothing actually wrong with the wheels. They needed a service. They needed a cleanup. We checked them. There was nothing wrong. So he needed just a basic manual wheelchair. He didn't want to spend, he didn't have a huge budget, he was paying privately. So we just supplied him a new Action 3, you know redid the Twion wheels. I think we've put some new rims on there just to make it look better and feel better.

And he sat brilliantly and he's one happy guy. But instead of paying like 4,000, 5,000 pounds, you know, or more actually probably, he spent what, 8-900 UK pounds and he's good to go. So that made me feel good. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Anton: That made me feel good. And he was happy. And it's the same result; We have a happy customer.

Justin: Have a happy customer who didn't need to spend that much money. 

Anton: Yeah. I don't know what your thoughts are but like is it just, again it's hard because I'm not pre-judging. I'm genuinely not. I know we've all been there, but maybe is it easier just to go new sometimes than going down like...I don't know. What's your thoughts? 

Justin: Definitely easier, like us as sales representatives it's definitely easier to say, "Hey mate, look, you just need a new chair." It's less risk for us. It's less work, it's more margin, I guess. And I'm saying this is honestly like this is just how businesses work.

Like you, you don't charge for your time. So, you know, what if you, if you sort of led him to a sale that costs more, it's better for you and the business. Is it best for him? I guess if you just looking at it purely what's best for him as a private sale... depends how you look at it. If he's beating his chair up, I mean maybe, like I said, if it's working fine, I'm surprised that his chair's beaten up and that the Twion wheels are okay.

Because from my understanding though those spring, so the way those push these wheels work, the push rims are on like a spring and when you push the spring it reads it and then it amplifies your push. But those springs are quite sensitive, like if you are throwing them on the ground and you're not looking after them because they're not bolted in like a regular push rim, you can damage them.

So if he's hard on his chair and they're still okay, mate, credit to Alber. But those were all okay were they? 

Anton: Yeah. No. Well, from what I read on the notes and I could see we put some new rims on, but it wasn't, we'd only put the actual rim on. We hadn't changed anything, but I think- 

Justin: Spray all the sensors.

Anton: Yeah, no... I think the guys had just done a really good, I mean to be fair, I think we just did a good job on that one and which made me proud of the team and everyone. It was really nice, you know, but it was wholesome, Justin. It was wholesome. And I know anyone listening, like from a representative's point of view or anyone who's doing equipment like... it does feel good, right?

I know like you're absolutely right that you don't make as much or that it's going to be easier and you don't maybe want to also like pick up someone else's work either, like you want to, you know, if somebody's done it, come in and done a job, and then you're coming in and sort of tweaking that.

It's not great like and that's not a criticism against maybe the person before us, it's just you know, you don't know where their mind was at that moment or whatever. But this is different though. This was different. He just out used the chair, so he just needed it. But that was cool. That was cool. That, that was a nice, that was a nice handover. Yeah. Any other, any... I actually, I've got a question for you. I had, I've noticed, yeah.... So new, a couple of new chairs that I'd noticed we'd supplied, this was me so I'll take that, we'd supplied to some children, a couple of just, and they'd had some unbelievable growth spurts. Cerebral palsy, so not really width was an issue like we've prescribed the chair. They were around, I think the one child that's really I'm thinking about, it was a roundabout... 10 years old I think when we supplied it. She's now just about a 11, 11 and a half, something like that and she has outgrown the depth already.

It's only been about a year since we supplied so, which is a bit like 'urgh' because I mean, I don't know what you say, but like would you say like three years is, two and a half, three years is maybe realistic in terms of growth? When somebody says, how long is this going to last me? And you can never put your name to it, you don't know, but what's your thoughts on this whole scenario like? 

Justin: Yeah, I mean the script that your kids chairs is something I do quite often and it is tricky.

On the chair you had, did they have a depth adjustable back frame? 

Anton: Yeah. I mean we were lucky because. We were lucky on this instance because, say lucky we, we used like the Ki Mobility products a lot, which you get your free growth kit with that. So yeah, it worked really well, but we thought the growth kit wouldn't be needed for at least another year.

Justin: Yeah. Yeah. Was this original frame or a folding frame chair? Was it original frame or a folding frame chair? 

Anton: Well, no. Sorry, yeah, it wasn't a manual this- Well it was a manual, it was tilt-in space, so it was, you know, the Flip, Flip XP. 

Justin: Yeah. Yeah. 

Anton: Folding. 

Justin: I do know it. 

Anton: Yeah. 

Justin: Yeah, yeah. I think with me with kids, I would always say, yeah, anyone who's under 16 depends on a few things. So I think with generally they're going to grow in more length, so as long as your chair has some sort of depth adjustable back frame, so that's where the back post can go back on the existing frame, that means you can grow the chair and the only parts you need to change is the cushion.

I think that's really good. On a rigid chair specifically, it can be nerve wracking because you can't go wider. So if you script a child in a 12 by 12 with the depth adjustable back frame, that means that can go from 12 inches wide, 12 inches deep, but it can go 13, 14, or maybe even 15, depended on the child's growth. So the chair's got that growth into it, and that should really last them, I would say even three, maybe even to five years. Like having three inches of femur length and growth is quite a long time. If they grow in width, that's where it can be a bit challenging as well. So I think with width, I would say if they're self propelling, just script it for what they need.

And if they grow wider, they grow wider and there's ways around that. But if they're not, if they're not, if they're not self propelling, then maybe go, you can go, you can probably leave a bit of wiggle room. But even if they're self propelling, I mean like the only kids who are like really self propelling really well, I would say are like this spina bifida clients, like clients who just have no, like generally with kids that it's not because they've been in a car accident, like your adult population.

It's not because they've got motor neuron disease or something. It's generally, when you work with kids 80-90% of the time it's going to be because of? Cerebral palsy. 

Anton: Sorry I didn't feel, I didn't feel the prompt there. I'm sorry. Go on. 

Justin: Cerebral palsy. Right. So there's usually like a whole, a general body weakness and they're not going to be pushing themselves function. This is, I'm generalising here, but this is what can happen. Yeah. So I think if they're just pushing themselves short distances, you could probably go a bit, leave a bit of room for width for them to grow into. But if they are actively pushing themselves, you don't want to make it harder for themselves because they weigh 10 kilos, the chair probably weighs 10 kilos. It's like me pushing an 80 kilo chair around. You want to make it as optimal as possible for them. So I wouldn't allow for too much growth, but maybe a little bit in the width. And even in the worst case scenario, I know with TiLite they do like offset side guards, so they'll like space them out. So if you've got a six inch wide, if you've got a 12 inch wide chair, you've got plenty of depth built into the chair. And if you have to go wider, you can do offset side guards, which means it might be a 12 inch wide frame. 12 is not a good example because 12, you have like width adjustable frames.

Let's say you've got a 14 inch wide frame. And the cl- the client has grown in depth, which you've not accounted for, but they've also grown in width. If that really did happen, you don't even have to go to a new chair, you could just go offset side guards where you'd put maybe a 15 or 16 inch wide cushion onto the chair and the frame would stay in that 14 inch wide, which isn't ideal, but it gives you a bit of breathing room to the next chair.

Anton: Okay, cool. Alright, sweet. 

Justin: Yeah. 

Anton: Alright, well look, listen, we're... we're having a little chat here and we're going to be finishing up shortly, guys so wherever you are, if you're about to get out and have an appointment. But, any tips for the week, Justin? I mean, obviously you've just given me a beautiful thought, but anything else you want to just finish on?

Justin: Tips for the week based on what we just said? If you're scripting for a child, maybe script the depth right up to their knees. Don't worry about the two finger gap. Just script right up to their knees to give them plenty of depth growth into it. Width, script the width that they actually need. If they're not pushing, maybe you can go a bit wider to allow for a bit more width growth. 

Anton: Nice.

Justin: If you're driving a power wheelchair, if you're coaching someone to drive a power wheelchair, make sure their eyes are locked onto your feet or something destructive. That will be, you'll see a night and day difference in their ability to drive. So yeah, those would be my great tips for the week, everybody. 

Anton: Nice! Guys, if you have any questions, if you're wanting us to talk about any sort of content, please do get in touch. We're having some amazing comments coming in and it's really all positive but anything, or anyone's feedback is always appreciated. So yeah, please do get in touch on the link below. Otherwise do feel free to click, like and subscribe because that is important to us and it does allow us to keep making our Wheel Chat podcast, which we really enjoy, don't we? 

Justin: Yeah, we do. I'd just love catching up even if no-ones listening!

Anton: You, you see, you're missing the prompt, you're missing the prompts! We'll get there. We'll get there. 

Justin: Love it's guys. 

Anton: Yeah, it's all good. Listen, you have a smashing week and everyone who's listening, everyone have a great week too. Please don't forget to click back in and listen to our new, next episode of Wheel Chat.

Thanks for listening guys. 

Justin: Thanks guys. Wheel Chat to you next week. Cheers.