Wheel Chat - Your Go-To Mobility Podcast
The Wheel Chat Podcast hosted by Anthony Mitchell and Justin Boulos is your go-to podcast for all things mobility. Whether you’re a Clinician, wheelchair rep, end user or just curious, you’ll get the inside scoop on what really works gained from their twenty years of combined experience. Each week, Anthony and Justin share real life stories, practical advice, and their honest, unbiased opinions so that you feel empowered both professionally and within your daily life. Both actively working within the sector, they’re on a mission to positively impact the lives of others worldwide!
Wheel Chat - Your Go-To Mobility Podcast
Wheel Chat: Episode 15 – Power Chair Design, Drive Performance & the Dream Wheelchair with Alex Chesney
Back by popular demand, Alex Chesney returns to Wheel Chat! In this episode, Anton and Justin sit down once again with the brilliant neurological OT and clinical education lead from Quantum Rehab for a deep dive into power wheelchair technology, product design, and real-world performance.
From the evolution of the Quantum Stretto and Edge 3 to navigating aesthetic vs. functional needs, crash testing realities, and what actually matters to users this conversation covers it all, with the usual mix of humour, insight, and honesty.
What’s in this episode:
- Why aesthetics, performance, and power base layout all matter
- The evolution of Quantum’s Stretto and how it compares to the Edge 3
- Front-wheel drive for bariatric clients and oedema: clinical benefits and limitations
- Crash testing, transport tie-down myths, and international funding frustrations
- Global wheelchair wish lists: what the “dream chair” really looks like
- Why innovation often stalls and how funding systems play a role
- Alex’s inspiring work with RSVP Texas and what it takes to build grassroots access
This one is packed with product insights, practical takeaways, and a few unexpected laughs. Whether you're a clinician, ATP, or just a power chair enthusiast, you won’t want to miss it.
https://quantumrehab.co.uk/
Email us :
We’d love to hear from you. If you have any questions about this podcast, please email us at wheelchatpod@gmail.com
Follow us : TikTok : https://www.tiktok.com/@wheelchat_podcast
Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/wheelchat_podcast/
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of Anthony and Justin.
Anton: [00:00:00] Wheel Chat! Yes, you're listening to Wheel Chat with Anton Mitchell and Justin Boulos. How are you Justin?
Justin: It's a bit, it's an early morning rise for me. Usually we do this at my, at my 5:00pm.
Anton: Hang on, anyone got violin? Anyone got a violin? Let's play a tune! And we are absolutely delighted, absolutely delighted to have our very own Alex Chesney! She's back for another session everyone. It was such a great first session. Alex, you're our first 'repeater' I have to say.
Alex: I'm so excited.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: I'm feeling part of the staff, so-
Anton: You're on the staff wages, then we're alright; We're all good.
Alex: Oh yeah, I don't need! Pro bono. Pro bono.
Anton: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Justin: We pay nothing, but you can-
Alex: I'm really, if you ask my husband, I'm really good at signing up for things that pay nothing so...
Justin: Well actually you'd be a great fit here then.
Anton: Yeah, you'll fit in bang on! But that's amazing Alex, because I was actually reading about your charity work, but we're going to come back to that [00:01:00] later on. All right, cool. Guys,if you haven't listened, and I'm really disappointed if you haven't, but if you haven't listened and you're just tuning in for the very first time, Justin and I are absolutely delighted to have Alex Chesney. Alex, you are... what would we say? You're an experienced neurological occupational therapist, would you say? I would say that.
Alex: I guess... I mean it still just feels like I just graduated right?!
Justin: Yeah. Well, you certainly look like it. You look younger than me and Justin put together.
Alex: Oh, thank you. Thank you.
Anton: No, you definitely do. You definitely bring up our camera for sure; definitely for sure. But no, and joking aside, I mean you would say you specialise in spinal cord injury?
Alex: Yes.
Anton: You're experienced with that-
Alex: Specifically spinal cord injury; Definitely. Neurodegenerative diseases, yeah.
Anton: Yeah. And you're currently the senior manager for clinical education within Quantum Rehab?
Alex: Yeah.
Anton: I mean, how's that?
Alex: It's great. I mean every day is different. I love it.
Anton: And you've been doing that for quite some time.
Like it's-
Alex: Yeah, it's been about six years. My six year [00:02:00] anniversary's coming up; time flies by.
Anton: Yeah. And I got to tell you, I mean, I don't know what it's like in Oz or Australia but you know we see a lot of people like sort of move around the industry. So they'll maybe work with one manufacturer, go to the other and they probably, but you're definitely, you know
sticking in there. So there's got to-
Alex: I'm pretty loyal.
Anton: Be a testament to Quantum.
Alex: I've got to say it's, yeah it's a really great culture. It's really fun, honestly. It just feels like you're working with your friends.
Anton: Yeah. Oh, that's really lovely. And then just before we start with the actual, like drilling session, no. But I was reading about you.
Alex: Oh, yes?
Anton: And yeah, I mean and to be fair, there's lots to read about.
Alex: I was like, I don't know what's out there. I really don't. I try not to Google myself or see anything.
Justin: No, apparently you are in a sorority and we have some photos.
Alex: I was in a sorority! Look at that!
Anton: Wow. I've always wanted to like, I would've liked that I think. It would've been fun.
Justin: I missed out. I reckon I [00:03:00] would've been the best frat boy. But I'd be like a respectful one who was like building everyone up. Like I'd be all about the hazing, but I'd be like, "Hey bro, are you okay?"
Alex: Yeah. It's really at the end of the day, it's all just about the brotherhood, sisterhood.
Justin: Yeah.
Anton: Yeah I love that. I think we miss out on that, certainly in our country although we have lots of fun as well. So, I was reading and what interested me was the, the vice president and clinical coordinator role that you held for a charity, and I'd just love you to just tell us a little bit about that because that genuinely does interest me.
Alex: Yeah, so I am the current vice president still of... yeah, so it's called Rehabilitation Services Volunteer Project so-
Anton: That just rolls off the tongue Alex.
Alex: RS, we just called it RSVP.
Anton: Okay.
Alex: RSVP. Come on over.
Anton: I like that.
Alex: So it started in Houston, Texas with a group of therapists and a physician, a pharmacist; very kind of grassroots [00:04:00] effort. And the goal was to help those that are unfunded or underfunded in our community, specifically the population with neurological diagnoses. So we have kind of two sides to our clinic. We have a actual kind of neuro rehab clinic that is all volunteer based. So all of our clinicians volunteer their time.
We do it two Saturdays a month.
Anton: Wow.
Alex: And we're able to see eight patients for half a Saturday. So everybody gets an hour of PT, an hour of OT, they can see the physician.
Anton: Wow.
Alex: We have physicians that come in and do spasticity injections. We have speech therapy, and then there's a local clinic that lets us use their space. So it is a true volunteer nonprofit. We are just fundraiser based, but we're able to provide that service to our community. And then we have an additional DME division. So I am transitioning from being [00:05:00] the coordinator in clinic and now, we kind of struggled during the pandemic. We didn't have a physical space for our DME side of things or CRT side of things; we just had storage units. So we have a fantastic person that used to be in the industry that's retired and he was kind of just driving around helping people out as he could until we recently got a physical space. And actually this Saturday is like our grand opening of our physical space.
Anton: Oh, wow.
Alex: Where we have a place now we can store all of our equipment and we got like a therapy mat. And so now we can do evaluations and stuff at that clinic. So that's happening one Saturday a month where we're going to see patients can come in and we try to match them. It's all donated equipment so we, it's a hoarder's dream. We hoard basically anything that could go on a wheelchair and we mix and match and try to fit people the best we can to equipment.
Anton: How cool. How cool. So just before we move on like how would people if they [00:06:00] wanted to get in touch with you donate or get involved? Where do they need to go?
Alex: Yes, so our website is RSVPtexas.org. It's actually getting, we're getting a website refresh. It was looking a little outdated, a little seventies, eighties vibe. So we are updating the website. So you can get on there to learn more and see, and there are some other, other states that have started things up. And we're actually working on a national nonprofit so we can support other states starting their own.
Anton: That is so cool. Justin?
Justin: Full of drive, Alex. Well done. That's amazing. I think it's, I think it's one thing to contribute to those things, but to be vice president, it's kind of like that's a true commitment.
Like I look at these things and I'm, "Oh, I would love to be a part of that". But then like vice like, and we would all like, I'm sure Anton's like, "Oh man, I wish I could be a part of that. I'd love to be a part of that." But then also champion the project is, is really great.
Anton: Yeah. Alex, good on you.
Alex: Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot day in, day out. That's where I laugh that I just sign up for things and my husband's like, is this, [00:07:00] are you being paid? I'm like, no.
Anton: No, I just think that's testament to you and wish the charity and yourself just a continued growth and future, that's just going to keep getting better and most importantly, helping people and individuals who are in desperate need of that help. And if, I presume it's because they can't access funds or don't have that financial sort of situation that they can pull on to help them. So, you know, full big up to Alex and her team at RSVP. So where do we start on Wheel Chat today? Where do we go?
Justin: I thought today would be fun to really talk, I mean we talked a lot clinically last episode. And I think this episode, let's just get right into the product.
Anton: Let's do it.
Justin: Let's take off any, any clinical brains that we have.
Anton: Okay.
Justin: And just go straight into, into product right. So to work out what is like, and you know, I know Alex, that your expertise is in clinical education, but you obviously work [00:08:00] for Quantum which is a product company and so I really want to, I guess the viewers of today to listen is to work out why Quantum? You know there's such a plethora of options that are out there.
We can go Permobil, Quickie, Invacare, Ottobock; there's a plenty of power chairs out there. How does an OT work out which one to trial. And then why would Quantum be a worthwhile choice to consider? Obviously it's not going to be the best chair for everyone. If there was... I always say if there's one best chair, there'd be one company and they would be making a lot of money doing this and no one else would be able to compete.
So there's obviously, just like cars, just like mountain bikes, just like anything, there's a variety of options for a reason and just knowing why you'd go one option over the other is really what you need to know. So Alex, why Quantum?
Alex: Yeah. Why Quantum? I really like that statement of, you know honestly, I would never want it to be one company, even though I work for Quantum, I would never want us to be the only manufacturer, [00:09:00] because I think that's what's important is there should be choice. There's a right chair for everyone for their own reasons. And so I think that that's one of the biggest things I try to advocate for and it's harder to do, you know, obviously with our healthcare structure and length of stays or amount of time people have is, I'm always like, you have a right to trial all the different, you know, chairs you want. Just like if I'm going to go buy a car, I could go to all the different car lots if I want to make up my mind. It's a big decision, especially when we're talking about equipment that depending on funding sources you might be stuck with for years and you can't change your mind.
So, you know, I love all the other brands. I mean I get to see all the other chairs. I'm always excited to see other people coming out with new stuff. What therapist or person doesn't love a new launch, a new product launch, so it's always fun to see. But I guess with Quantum I, honestly my experience, I feel like is just really related to the people at Quantum. I always feel like if there was a problem with something I ordered or something just wasn't right, they always made it [00:10:00] right. There was never a big stress about it. I could go to them and be like, "Oh my gosh, this is the problem. I don't know what to do. We don't have a resource for this." And they always just were so quick to be like, "Not a problem. Let me see what I can do." And I was like, "Oh, okay. This is so great." Like you're taking stress off of me and you're going to solve the problem for my client. This is the best of both worlds. So I think I really love that about Quantum is really a lot of it their culture. It's also really fun working for a manufacturer that that's all we focus on. We just are committed to power mobility. We have one CEO. He is very, very passionate; if you ever get to meet him, he is a fantastic CEO that's very involved, very supportive and he's just always saying, "Guys look, you know, we just do power. We don't have manual lines, we don't have all these other things, you know, because we wanna focus on how do we be the best at that."
And so I really, really like that; that we're not spreading ourselves too thin and that we are just trying to do our best to be the [00:11:00] most humble and take, take feedback from consumers, from industry people, from clinicians and just try to make it better as we can.
Anton: Okay. So do you guys see Pride and Quantum as two separate entities?
Like they're not-
Alex: Yes.
Anton: Right. Okay.
Alex: Yes they are together, but I will definitely tell you if you ask me about Pride I'll be like, "There's a really cool carbon fibre chair that folds up. Like don't ask me about the coating but-
Anton: I get it.
Alex: I know where to find information.
Anton: Yeah, and I think that's quite similar here.
I mean, I don't know like what it's like obviously in Oz Justin, but for here it's like Pride is more your retail like 'Mobility' shop off the high street, which is fabulous. They offer a great service, you know, if somebody you know is got what we would call entry level needs, great. But it's Quantum's going to be in that more special if more, more prescriptive chair.
Alex: Yes.
Anton: Right, [00:12:00] so and then even so I mean, I would say that for me, Quantum as a... was always the go-to for us historically when we had a bariatric client, when we needed someone who, and probably still is in some respects, like you know if someone's more, needs more width, needs a user weight limit to be increased? I think there was a certain dependability from my side that I always saw Quantum giving. I've certainly over the years seen developments in their seating but again I would say, please don't take this as offense Americans listening-
Alex: Yeah.
Anton: But I just think aesthetic sometimes I think the products in the US kind of lack in finish, but makeup in quality, you know? So there's not there's... you know like whereas when you go to like maybe Scandinavia the finish looks like unreal. But [00:13:00] maybe they don't have that sort of heavy duty sort of effect like that they can give that dependability sometimes. And that's unfair to both, like I'm not putting that in a country by the way everyone! Please don't start emailing me!
Justin: Which chairs are made in Scandinavia? Name some Scandinavian chairs!
Anton: You not have Etech?
Justin: We don't have Etech power chairs.
Anton: Ah no, but I'm talking about manual and the type of like, like sort of design that comes around it. And then we've had like Holland, we've got, you know, you've, you obviously got Holland, you've got like the Ibis which, you know range; I don't know if you have that over there and things? So, which Sunrise now have within their sort of portfolio, so the point I was trying to make, which I've totally digressed everyone, is I was interested to know your thoughts on sort of aesthetics over, and quality's not the right thing but maybe heavy duty sort of hardwear.
Alex: Sure.
Anton: Yeah. Tell me about it, Alex, you think?
Alex: Yeah. Yeah. Aesthetics I feel like what you're saying is not [00:14:00] too uncommon and being made in the USA I will say, like sometimes I've heard some of our reps and I agree like with, you know we're kind of like your, your American muscle car.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: Or like, you know, and then you have like your more like sleek, like we're kind of more the Ford Chevy versus you know the Mercedes as far as like the appearance and the ruggability. And it doesn't have to do with, it's just different strokes for different folks. Again, like you see more sleek, streamlined and then ours sometimes has been like maybe a little bit more boxy.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: And then we kind of redesigned the back and I used to say, "Oh no, it looks like a transformer." Like you kind of had like these different things or it looks like, you know, going to Superman or kind of like looking like that. So it's, it changes and I totally get those aesthetics 100%. But then, like you're mentioning the heavy duty aspect, they are robust I will say! Like our AFP is pretty robust on there. Same... heavy duty offerings, I will say I think that's somewhere that we are able [00:15:00] to exceed a little bit of, and there's still I always tell people we teach classes on bariatrics and things, there's still no great solution for bariatrics; it just gets so challenging. But it is an area that I feel like we've tried to make it to where, okay, we're trying to expand the width offering or we're trying to make it to where, you know, could, can we look at the weight capacity for it to have these power seat functions we know are really crucial, but we're seeing heavier and heavier weight capacities. You know, having a forefront to a front wheel drive heavy duty chair is a big deal to us because a lot of times if somebody's carrying their weight very anterior, you get those castor wheels are just bald a majority of the time and we're like, yeah, because you need the end user's weight over that drive tyre.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: So if we can try to help with an offering that helps performance and how it holds up over time, it's just kind of matching that together.
Justin: I was going to say, a little bit back to clinic talk now, but I actually [00:16:00] really love the front wheel drive for bariatric clients for that very reason, Alex. Because you get, you don't have to load those front castors so much. But also because of, really oedematous legs or really big, thick legs.
Alex: Yes.
Justin: And then when you've got a mid-drive, you kind of get like these knees that, you know, maybe in line with the cushion and then the ankle is good.
Alex: Yeah.
Justin: Like a little triangle, they go in to fit within there. And so your only option is to go the swing away leg rest because, but then they have to go out further and it puts a stretch on the hamstring. And if someone's bariatric they're probably not doing a lot of walking and the hamstrings might be getting shorter. So having a front wheel where you can have, go as wide as you want on the foot plates, I think that is a really nice thing that Quantum's done with the forefront.
Anton: Oh, I like it! Tip one! Justin, repeat tip one for your bariatiric clients.
Justin: Tip one : Anyone who needs... not even bariatric-
Anton: Oedema legs, swollen legs.?
Justin: Yeah. Anyone with legs who need to go, like maintain that really neutral position. Because naturally with centre mounts that... I love centre amounts. 99% of my chairs will have centre mounts. [00:17:00] But just think about it, right? If your knees are on a cushion and you're trying to put your feet onto a centre mount they're going to go to the centre, which causes an external rotation, so your feet go in, knee goes out of the leg. But if you've got someone who really needs to have their legs out a bit wider, front wheels are the best for that. And I really, really like front wheels because you don't have those castors that get in the way.
So yeah, there's a nice little clinical tip and I really appreciate Quantum for acknowledging that, because you guys, Quantum sort of championed that with the Q1450, which was a big bariatric, which is to my knowledge one of the biggest, highest weight capacity chairs that you can get on a chair which is a front wheel.
Anton: Yeah.
Justin: And for that reason because there's so much weight on the front, you'd rather have a big drive tyre rather than those tiny castors so it-
Anton: What is the user weight limit?
Justin: 275 kilos.
Alex: Yeah. I was like, oh yeah, you all are kilos was like... I was like we're 600 pounds, 600 pounds.
Justin: I don't know what that is in language. But over here it's big, but it doesn't have tie down point. [00:18:00] It's not crash tested. But then again, I mean again, let's digress. Whatever! Crash testing is an interesting one because to my knowledge the dummies only go up to like a 100kgs or something. Is that right?
Alex: Yeah it's like a, I'd have to look up the exact, but it's basically like an average weight, whatever you want to define that as, dummy and then it's only going forward facing at like 30, 35 miles per hour. I think it's 30 miles per hour. So very, very low range. So you know, it's like you got to kind of take it for what it is.
Justin: I think some advice for therapists out there, sometimes you might get chairs that aren't technically crash tested. And they think, "oh, well what are we going to do? Like, how are we going to transport the client?"
And I just think you've got to do whatever you got to do. Like at the end of the day, even if it's not crash tested, if that's the only option, if you've explored all other options and the only chair that's going to have the right weight capacity or that fits the need clinically is the Q1450, which technically isn't crash tested, you can still get hook points.
And if the client understands the risk, then you've got to do it. And [00:19:00] then otherwise, what's the other option? They stay in bed for the rest of their lives and you know, you just got to make these decisions and, you know, make informed decisions on this. And whilst other things are crash tested and it's nice to have them, just know that nothing's crashed tested. There is not a single chair configuration that is ever going to have the backrest that you put on there, the headrest system, the client's weight, the taxi driver who's tied it down the right way and this; like nothing is perfectly crash tested. It's good we have standards to encourage that but if you don't have it perfectly, then you just got to do whatever you got to do and focus on what's right and let the client make a decision based on that.
Anton: Yeah I think, this is a whole topic for a new podcast.
Justin: Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Anton: No, I think no that would be a great episode.
Alex: That would be a great episode because there's so much misunderstanding. Yeah, there's a lot misunderstood about crash testing.
Justin: I think we could even get, I think we, I know a guy in Australia who would be great to talk about this, about crash testing because they do a lot of it. And we could also talk, I mean, last point we'll talk about with Quantum specifically because we'll keep this episode about [00:20:00] Quantum. Alex, four point tie down versus six point tie downs on a Quantum chair, is there contention of that over there where you're from because there's a little bit of it over here in Australia, to my knowledge.
Alex: We use, yeah, so that's interesting we use four point tiedowns.
Anton: So do we, so do we hands up! Yeah.
Alex: We use four point tiedown, yeah.
Justin: We use four point as well.
Alex: And really we don't worry about WC 19, which is our like crash testing that school buses and things will ask about sometimes. That very much so only comes up a lot of times with schools. Some states are getting pickier about that but that's where I think it's important just to shed light on what those tests really show, but then understanding separately what these chairs go through and testing for different regulatory bodies, because sometimes those regulatory bodies and the testing is almost way more than this compliance as far as crash testing.
So they are in general very, very safe and very much so held to high standards of testing.
Justin: Yeah I think the, and look I'll get more [00:21:00] information about it. I think there is contention in Australia. I think someone's tested it here and they think all chairs should be six point tie down because you've got four that go onto the base. But then to stop a catapult situation if the seat can come off the chair, like in the unlikely event of a severe accident, the chair can break off at some point, right? I don't know at what speed or at what impact, but that's why you should have another hook point on the back of the chair on the, on the, where the backhand sort of makes the seat rail or somewhere similar.
Anton: I'm sure though, like that we could go into like just standard pieces of equipment in a vehicle at that speed. You know, like, I think like, I think we could be going way overboard just for a wheelchair. What about the actual seat that you're in like? Exactly.
Alex: How does that?
Anton: Yeah. So, okay on that note, don't worry about crash testing, as Justin said. So please send all your in information to Justin if you have any complaints! Don't bother about it.
Justin: Use hockey straps perhaps. Do you guys have hockey straps?
Anton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alex: Just tie it down. You should see the ways we see how people transport things.
You're good if you're following any tie down [00:22:00] rules.
Anton: No. Please do follow in all seriousness, please do follow the laws of any country that you're listening to us from. And please consult your nearest distributor for any information. Thank you. Back, to the podcast!
Justin: Nice disclaimer. And back to the podcast. So more about why, why Quantum? So Alex, where do you feel like the product itself really, so I guess maybe let's stick with like our, your mid-wheel drive, your flagship mid-wheel drive is your Edge 3. Where do you feel like people look at that chair or experience that chair and think, "Oh, I want this one over others?"
Alex: Yeah, I think that's, so I think that's hard because I'm even going to like, Ooh, I'm not poo-pooing the Edge 3, but I'm saying the Edge 3 has a place. But I will say when the Stretto Edge 3 came out... Honestly a lot of us, like we love the Stretto way more.
Anton: Why Alex? Why?
Alex: So the now, and this is kind of a funny clinical one because my local rep and [00:23:00] I are both OTs.
And so when it first came out, the Stretto has the smaller front castor. It has that five inch front caster. And we were all like, "I don't know about this five inch caster, how's this going to hold up?"
And this chair surprised us all. It actually like has the best climbing because it has the independent suspension, so it like climbs our ramps really well.
It traverses over a lot of terrains really well. Those five inch front castors, that's not holding it back. I mean I've been in Arizona with loose gravel. People are pulling their brother and sister through front yards in snow. Like that hasn't held up the, held the performance back at all. So we all just really loved the upgrade of the suspension.
It was kind of really designed from the base up and you know, it has its place that's where when you're looking at it, yeah the goal is it's narrow and it's going to be able to fit through, kind of it...for home accessibility it's a game changer for us of being able to get in and what I really like is it's a more forward mid-wheel, so you still get that really tight 360 turning [00:24:00] radius, but because it's a little bit more forward, you get a really great, tight 90 degree turn.
So super optimal in those smaller houses or flats that are like very narrow hallways, that you have a very sharp, 90 degree turn.
It just performs really well, but you're still not sacrificing that outdoor performance.
Anton: What do you mean by slightly forward? Like for the people that are listening, because I know what you mean, but if you could just explain that a little bit more.
Alex: Yeah. So when you look at your bases, and we're pulling up a picture here when you look at your bases, what we're talking about with mid-wheel is just that your larger drive tyre is in the middle. So you have smaller tyres in the front, smaller tyres in the back.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: You have castors, and then you've got your mid-wheel. So your traditional kind of mid-wheel drive, it's very, very centred to the base versus on the Stretto, it's just ever so slightly moved forward. So it's not a front wheel drive chair, but [00:25:00] you get a little bit of the benefit of a more front rear, front wheel performance from that drive tyre. So you're getting a little bit of a hy-, a hybrid performance there.
Anton: And what would that adv-, how advant-, how would that advantage somebody in terms of, you spoke about turning, but I'm going to give an example which is a pet hate of mine... and I know this is valid because I see a lot of customers say to me, "I've got this problem", and I have it with the ramps on my van.
So I drop the ramps and I've got like, what eight foot ramps or whatever, maybe longer actually on mine to be fair; it might even be eleven foot. And a lot of wheelchairs, mid-wheel drives, the two front castors hit the ramp and then I ain't going nowhere, right?
Alex: Yeah. Yeah.
Anton: So talk to me about this because I saw Justin get really excited about this topic.
Alex: Yeah, so that's part of it is like where those castors [00:26:00] are, the way the castor forks are designed, and then having that independent suspension with that more forward wheel, it helps to kind of pull a little bit more, have a little bit more like oomph or grab to get up that ramp. Now, what's important for people to know too is because sometimes people might say the opposite, not necessarily with the ramp, but they might be like, "Oh, I feel like sometimes my castors like float if I'm going up a really high incline." It's also just important to make sure like when you spec out a chair, order a chair, make sure you're always giving an accurate weight.
So I think a lot of people don't realise we take whatever weight's given to us and your suspension of your chair is really set based on certain weight parametres. So if you are saying that you're way lighter than you may have a different feel in your chair performance of your chair, than if you're heavier.
So it's just important to note that because they do look at weight capacity as far as, okay, are you a pediatric client? Or if you're teeny tiny, and we're putting you in this chair and the chair weighs way more [00:27:00] than you, right we might need to set the suspension a little different. So that's like an important consideration environmentally.
Anton: Okay. That's cool.
Justin: Could I ask a question?
Alex: Yeah.
Justin: I've historically only ever done Stretto's for people who are 16 inches or under, given that the armrest sit over, like once you go to 18 inches wide, the widest point is now the armrest. Anyway, yes. So I've always thought it was like, I do love the front and rear suspension, but I figure is lateral stability something they consider, like you know I think people like the look of the Stretto. They look at that and like, "Oh, that one's more compact."
Alex: Yes aesthetically.
Justin: Even if, you know, you had an Edge 3 and a Stretto side by side.
Alex: Oh yeah.
Justin: They're still going to fit through the same doorway if you're 18 inches wide because the widest point is the arms. Can someone just go a narrow base anyway? Is there an issue with lateral stability or, you know, like should people really only be doing Strettos when they're in that 16 inch or under range? What are your thoughts on that?
Alex: I say go up. I [00:28:00] love it for like an 18 inch!
Anton: Go big or go home!
Alex: Go big or go home yeah! Now there's caveats to that, but I would say like 18 inch for sure, like your average adult it can be a game changer, especially if you can sleeve the arms in, because if you're still doing that, you know, 14 inch drive tyre, you're at like 21 and a half or give or take. And so depending on where your arms are, you know, if you can sleeve them in a little bit then you're good or you might be okay with where it's at. That's where I've seen a lot of standard size adults that are maybe like '18/18' be able to still fit through like a 26 inch wide doorway.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: Now you have to be a skilled driver and obviously that's narrow, but they can do that in the Stretto, whereas that's just not going to happen in like the Edge 3 let's say. Now a lot of times too because it's so use dependent on that user; I mean you still have the same like weight capacity, but we're kind of like okay, "Tell me the situation here."
If you're like, [00:29:00] "Hey, my person is pretty close to the weight capacity, but they live in a motor home and their only way that they can access, you know, their house is with a really narrow chair. You know, they're not outside too often."
We might be like, "Okay, you've pled your case", versus if you're pretty close to that weight limit and this person has, it's not really due to that consideration, they just "of like the look of it more. We might be like, "Well, I think you're probably better served if you could go to, you know, the Edge 3, the more robust mid-wheel drive." Just because you have more surface area, you have more space. The safety's there, I think it's all just kind of the use case. And if you're close to that weight capacity that I'm like, "Yeah, get the one that's more robust." Like, it's just, you know that's always going to be better.
Justin: And by more robust you mean the bigger castors and the wider-
Alex: Yeah the bigger castors, the wider base. Like you just have that more substantial support underneath you. So if it's not really down to a very situational [00:30:00] consideration, then we might be like, "Yeah, I think maybe the Edge 3 will serve you better."
Justin: I have a question.
Alex: Yes.
Justin: Have you found a way to manage the Stretto's big butt? And what I mean by big butt is that for attendant drivers, now that you've rotated the batteries that way-
Alex: Yes.
Justin: People tend to kick the butt of the chair. Is there, have you found a way around that? Because I found that can be a big thing that, the Edge 3 has your... has more space between the castors. I don't know if I can find a photo here. But you get what I mean, there's more space for your legs to walk. Whereas here, because you've rotated the batteries to get that narrow base.
Alex: Yes.
Justin: Now the butts in the way, how does one effectively use that as an attendant?
Alex: So I don't know how you train on attendant driving. I'm going to tell you, I'm the worst attendant drive. Do not need me attendant drive-
Justin: I'm the best I can teach you after this.
Alex: Okay, well I now have my tricks, but I was like a front joystick driver. You know, I got to get people in and out of an elevator. I'm driving from the front, so I'm taking over. But the back, if I [00:31:00] have an attendant control, the best way I use it is because ours is on that like old school, like phone cord. I like take it off and have to hold it central to the chair, and then drive.
Anton: That's so difficult.
Alex: No, no! Oh gosh I feel so, because then you are centred. If I'm like, if my hand is like off to the side, I'm like driving funky because it's not lined up with like where I'm visualising the chair.
Anton: Oh wow.
Alex: So the trick for that a lot of people do is you take it out of its little receiver and you hold it like and drive it central to yourself.
Anton: Oh, no.
Alex: Maybe we need, maybe that's the next video: tricks on your attendant control driving.
Anton: I'm actually panicking here right now. I mean, anyone who's listening-
Alex: I have my chair right here. I can show you all!
Anton: Yeah, no I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. I just don't know if that's panicking me.
Justin: No, I've seen, I've seen people do what Alex said and I'm with you Anton. I reckon it's better to have it on the chair, but I've had a lot of people say that the coil string on the Quantum, which is a very nice, unique feature for people who want to do it. You can take it off and you can walk wherever you need to.[00:32:00]
Anton: I mean it's like a remote control car, Alex then.
Alex: It's great!
Justin: Imagine driving a car with a remote control?!
Alex: It's just like I got a little scooter cart.
Justin: Alex, I'm going to give you the best advice that a Quantum rep, that our Quantum product specialist Andrew McDonald in Quantum told me 10 years ago.
Alex: Okay!
Justin: When I was working, I used to work for Quantum once upon a time. Fun fact.
Alex: I did see that. I've done my research.
Justin: And he gave me the best advice that I use to this day, every day, which is point the joystick, where you want the clients feet to go. Now, what do I mean by that? When the client's in the chair, you are driving and say you want to go down this left hallway, you want to turn the joystick, turn the client's feet to the left. And the reason why I say the client's feet is because when you turn left, your hand goes to the right and it wigs you out and you're like, "Ah, the chair's driving the wrong way and we need to invert this, the program, and we need to do more programs." Like, no, no programming! Everyone shhh, just focus on the [00:33:00] client's feet. Keep your eyes on where you want to go, but just think the whole time 'I want the client's feet to go this way. I want the client's feet to go that way.' And I promise you, you'll see a night and day difference in your outdoor, in your attendant driving performance. Give it a try today.
Alex: Ooh, I love that.
Anton: This is all, I mean, this is great, but what happens if you're five foot and you've got a six foot user in front?
Alex: It's more like a vibe.
Justin: It's more like an energy thing.
Anton: Sorry I'm, I've killed the idea. I've killed it. Sorry.
Justin: It's more just like a-
Anton: I get it. Yeah, but I... yeah, okay I'm going to try it. I'm going to focus on the feet. I'm going to focus on the feet.
Justin: What's your best tip, Anton?
Anton: Don't use attendant control. Get a scoot control. Get a tiller control. Like change the control at the back. Like that's my tip.
Alex: That's true.
Anton: Like...
Justin: They're expensive.
Anton: They are.
Alex: They stick out. They stick out so far. We, I have a video. We tried the little scoot control.
Anton: No they don't.
Alex: We'll have something in the future probably.
Anton: Well, yeah, no, I mean it, so you know, Mo-Vis will let you fit I mean, I don't think they're...
Alex: Yeah, Mo-Vis that's who we've, we worked with Mo-Vis.
Anton: Yeah, [00:34:00] they're the manufacturer of the Scoot, so-
Alex: Yeah.
Anton: I mean, there are other controls. I mean, like, I've noticed Sunrise, I have gone back to the more traditional tiller control, you know so... I don't know if how to explain that, but-
Justin: I didn't know they had that.
Anton: Basically it's a little, very simple device that it almost creates the handle that moves. So it's like it goes onto top of the attendant control; a little stem, like a little plug that sits on top, and then when you move the handle, it moves the attendant control. So it's just a, it's just a really simple device.
Alex: Thats cool.
Anton: You can buy it from other manufacturers as well.
Justin: What's it called?
Anton: They call it a tiller. A tiller control. And I actually, like if you ask any rep here they'll be like, "Ah, I don't know what you mean Anton." And then when they do it, they go, "Oh yeah, I know exactly what you mean." Oh there you go.
Justin: Sunrise Medical uk.
Anton: There you go. Except all, deny all. Let's go.
Alex: Probably means only you all have it.
Anton: Oh great. It's not giving you a picture.
Justin: Oh, well no, no pictures for it. Anyways [00:35:00] guys!
Anton: I've got them. I've got them work. I will, I'll send you both how it all works.
Alex: Yeah.
Anton: I mean it's a really, really simple approach. Karma do it as well that you can buy that as like an extra, sort of add-on feature. So it's pretty amenable to-
Justin: Oh, the Karma one is sick by the way. It's like an inverted one.
Alex: Haven't seen that.
Anton: It's just simple. And it's not expensive. So, you know, different options out there. So yeah look, listen ...again, there you go!
Justin: This here.
Anton: There you go. There you go.
Justin: It's a big, there you go! Get you guys the RD to rip this off. This is really cool. This is like, yeah, that's, I've never used it before, but-
Anton: I use it all the time.
Justin: Makes sense.
Anton: Use it all the time.
Justin: This one over here, you use this one on front?
Anton: Yeah, yeah! Use that and I use the Sunrise one on Sunrise. Like, they're so easy, so...
Alex: Now this is a random question on my end. Do you all get these covered through your funding sources? That's always a problem here.
Justin: We are in Australia Alex, Alex Alex ...
Anton: Well you mean the attend control or what you get or the wheelchair?
Justin: Any, anything that you-
Alex: The attendant control. [00:36:00]
Justin: This would absolutely be funded. We don't have restrictions on funding it. We just like whatever missing.
Alex: Okay, so I'm moving to Australia.
Justin: Yay Australia! You're welcome to. It's the best.
Anton: No is the answer on the UK. Unless you had... I mean, yes is the answer, sorry I've answered that incorrectly. It's very difficult to get full funding on attendant control wheelchairs, but if you can justify it and you've got an incredible therapist that's capable of doing so, then you do see it. But the families have got an option here to sort of put towards, if it's NHS funded, if it's through the health centre. If it's private then obviously like anywhere you can go ahead, right?
Alex: Yeah, yeah, we don't get, that's our biggest issue is that it's not covered. So there's always like, there's not a lot of innovation I feel like, around attendant controls because it's already a lot of times an out-of-pocket cost.
Anton: Yeah.
Justin: Really! So your attendant controls don't even get funded at all? Not even just fancy stuff.
Alex: No. No.
Justin: Wow.
Anton: What about from a moving and handling point of view, Alex? Like if, you know, if it was in terms of, you know, [00:37:00] I mean because there's so many justifications, you could have a one carer use where you might-
Alex: I know, it's usually external funding sources will cover it or it's kind of case by case, but you have to get, you to be incredibly good at justifying it. It's not, even with a great justification a lot of times it's not covered. They just see it as extra, or as a luxury.
Anton: Wow.
Justin: I feel like there needs to be an inbetween system. I feel like in Australia they're probably, our people who check our stuff at the moment there's a lot of controversy around they're not even clinical; that, you know, they'll approve things and not approve things based on whatever the weather's doing today.
Anton: Is anyone else feeling that like people are just shouting at the radio right now, like, you know, going "I, I agree, Alex, this is terrible! Jump and argue! We get it!"
Alex: Yeah. Yeah.
Anton: Or even people in Australia going, "I've tried but I'm not getting it funded! Justin said you'll get it funded?!"
Justin: I do like the American, I do the accountability on the American system though, because I personally see a lot of waste in our, in Australia because, you know if you're [00:38:00] spending money that's not yours for someone that's not you, you know, like it's very easy to overspend money. Maybe we need a Doge coming in. Is that or is the, the Doge team coming in, get Elon Musk coming in.
Anton: Oh, right. Like... we're not going political here.
Alex: Oh my gosh no! But I think it's good for everybody to hear that like we all share the same struggles. Like some places might say like, "Oh, we have no problem," but it's maybe a local funding source. Like, so it's just important to know like we all have, we're all in it together. Everybody has the same struggles.
Anton: Yeah, 100%. So I've got a question because we're going to be coming to the end of our podcast soon, and I would like to know, I've got a question... what was that sorry Justin?
Justin: We haven't even started.
Anton: I know! We're going for number three with Alex in. So, I'm going to put a question to you both, and this is, if you had a dream and your dream was you could create any wheelchair you wanted, so your dream chair, [00:39:00] what would it look like? What would it have? I'm going to open up with Alex first.
Justin: Alex, you go first. I'm going to start to draw one.
Alex: Okay. So if we can have anything, first of all, everything gets covered so like we don't even have to worry.
Anton: Oh yeah this is a dream Alex, like yeah.
Alex: Like it's a dream.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: I think that there's all this technology with all these fancy recliners, zero gravity chairs, whatever. Like why can't I choose if I want a seat heater?
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: A cooling thing.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: Maybe I want some inflation at my back, my lumbar. Like at this point our cars have a little bit more customisation in there, so I would want... you know, it's got to be low profile. We don't wanna add a bunch of space to our chair but I want some kind of integrated, like you can just customise your seat situation for sure in there.
Anton: That ain't no dream, Alex, that is out there. But-
Alex: No, with your back rest and stuff? What?
Anton: It exists! It absolutely-
Alex: Don't me about things I can't get! Tell me more things I can't get.
Anton: You can have that, but actually there's actually a product on [00:40:00] the market that can detect how you're sitting and will AI wise or artificial intelligence tell you. So if you're leaning to the left, it'll fill up on the left lumbar, lateral area and help you to set up right. It will detect how you're sitting and it will fill up air in the cushion, depending how it is. It can alternate. It's all there for you.
Alex: Who's making this?
Anton: Well, it's a good question. There's actually two products. There's a lady who's doing it in the UK called Aergo, A-E-R-G-O. Okay. And then there's also Justin, there's a gentleman doing the cushion I'm correct, as well. And he's a, an American gentleman.
Alex: Oh, I know him. Are we talking about the Kalogon cushion? The Orbiter?
Justin: Tim.
Anton: Tim? Yeah.
Alex: Tim.
Justin: Tim Balz.
Anton: Yeah.
Alex: I do know Tim. I know Tim very well. Yes. Yes.
Anton: So Tim can make your dreams come true, Alex.
Alex: I know he can. He can, but well, you don't have heating and cooling involved yet.
Anton: No. But then you have got a heating and cooling [00:41:00] system that you can go for now. Which has been out for several, for many, many years. What you on here? Yeah. Aergo. There you go.
Alex: What is this one?
Anton: There you go.
Alex: Oh see we don't, we do not, I'm going to have to look this up. I don't think we have this.
Anton: No you don't. So yeah, this is a cool product.
Alex: You're all breaking my heart.
Justin: We don't have it either. So it's got responsive ASLs to keep you comfortable.
Alex: Okay. Well look, it already exists. This is easy. My chair exists.
Justin: I think seating that, that could be a whole episode on seating. Let's focus on the power chair, because seating would be-
Alex: I know the power chair itself I do think, it would be really nice, and I have seen obviously some of the technology that's trying to do this out there. I'm not saying we need the chair to be like a Rumba, but I would love if there was something built into the chair and the future that just made it very low profile, easy that like assisted you through doorways. I feel like this is the number one hangup for people is doorways, ruining doorways. And then lately I've been working with just a lot of geriatric clients that they just get so [00:42:00] nervous at the doorway and then facilities wanna take their chair away because they just get anxious. And a lot of it's more just like practice and training. They do great in the common area and the second they get to the doorway, they freeze up.
And I'm like, "I don't want you to lose your chair because of this dang doorway."
Anton: That's actually so true. And that is, it's amazing that across the world we've all got doorway issues.
Alex: I know.
Anton: I find that incredible.
Alex: And people are trying to come up with good solutions, like the you know, like the infrared tracking on the ceiling and all the things.
Anton: Or the Lucy, Lucy does that, doesn't it?
Alex: And the autonomous, I saw this video Justin had of this system looks really cool. But I want there to be like something very low profile, like some little tiny sensor that just-
Justin: It's very early days. I think if it just had these little senses like Lucy sensors. I think that, I think that would be cool. This is like a quite a big one, but I get what you mean. You should be able to like just go into your control and be like 'home'. And then boom, you've got it knows if someone's in the way and it knows if you know-
Alex: Yeah. It's like a doorway assist.
Justin: Where you want to go. So I think that stuff would [00:43:00] be cool.
Anton: Okay. That's a cool dream.
Justin: What about you mate?
Anton: That's a cool dream.
Justin: Oh my dream.
Anton: Yeah.I want your dream. I want give us a dream. I'm sure there's like a massive speech that I can give.
Alex: I know. I was like, I'm ready for Justin's dream.
Justin: I have a huge dream. The biggest, I think the one that people should be like manufacturers should be focusing on is seat to floor height. Now the TAIQ has a 14 inch seat to floor height and it's, it's not one that I do but it is something that like, even if we can get to like 15 and a half, like it's really hard if you want to manage people's doing standing transfers. I think... like it can be done. Like batteries are made, like I know that the batteries are made at a certain height, but I don't know anything about batteries, but I'm sure if you went to your battery manufacturer and be like, "Hey man or woman, can you just make it one that's like maybe a bit wider or a bit longer and we can cut off the top height a little bit so we can just get down another inch." I think that would really separate one brand over a lot of others. Like massively. I think if you walked in with two chairs and one was a 15 or 15 and a half inch seat of full height. By the [00:44:00] way everyone 17 and a half is a very standard seat to floor height. You might get 16 and a half or, if you, you know, don't get any power functions, but if you really want to get it low, I think that would be a really cool feature. I think another issue I see with people is using power seat functions, specifically with tilt. And again, the technology is there, there is no reason why we can't have an automatic tilt in mechanism where as you go down a curb, it will track that or you can maybe preempt it.
Look, it might be hard to do that live because curbs are quite short and by the time you're on it, it's you're already gone. But something to like-
Alex: Pre ramps.
Justin: Even if you had to drive it in a slow mode, you put in like automatic mode and it limited you to like one kilometre an hour or one three miles per hour, whatever it is. And you'd drive slow and the chair would automatically calibrate to maintain that you're an equal level. I think that would be a really cool thing, and that would really change a lot of people's lives because you can have tilt but [00:45:00] trust me, when I see people in the street, they don't, they're not stop with the tilt and go back and forth. They just you know what, little bit of tilt, send it and see how we go. But those are two things I can think of right now on top of my head.
Anton: Well, I'm talking here! I'm talking the dream. Like give me the dream, give me the dream!
Justin: The dream as well... let me keep thinking about it. You go Anton. I'll think of more.
Anton: I mean, you could have a wheelchair that goes through water.
Justin: No, I'm talking like realistic dreams in terms of like dreams.
Alex: Our dreams are very practical.
Anton: So practical, so boring! Like I'm only joking No they are; they're excellent dreams.
I think that what it actually becomes apparent to me is that we're not far away from creating the dream, really. Like if we could pull it. And that's the truth is that I know we're in live in a commercial world. So each manufacturer, each company, they're striving to be the best. They're offering different solutions, which is fantastic. It's what makes the world go round. It gives us all the opportunities. And that kind of leads us back to the beginning when we opened up and Alex, you said to [00:46:00] yourself in your own admission that it's great to have options, it's great to have selection. But maybe the dream would be maybe we could all get round the table and actually create the super chair, you know?
And maybe donate, donate the best parts of a Quantum, the best parts of a Permobil, the best, I mean this is never going to happen. This is a dream, guys.
Justin: Never going to happen that.
Anton: But the fact is it does exist I reckon if you could pull it.
Alex: We could, Anton we're going to let you lead that group. Because that's a very opinionated group.
Justin: Vice president.
Anton: Thanks Alex. Appreciate it.
Justin: But I think Anton, the realistic aspect, I think that Alex, what you told me there about the attendant control is actually opened my eyes a bit in terms of, it seems like the limiting factor on innovation is funding. Like I generally believe that if Quantum was made and manufactured in Australia, it was, you know, Australian owned company and your main market was the Australian market.
You would have more, courage I guess to innovate something new, because we don't really have like a [00:47:00] list of things that are okay, not okay. We more have like, can you justify it or not? And I think if you are in that environment, then yeah innovation is pushed. Because how can we be better? How can we be lighter? How can we be, go further? How can we do this? How can we do that? Like, the innovation's being pushed. But if you are in a funding model, if you're trying to, again, a corporate environment, if you're like, "Hey, we want to do a chair that, can do back flips." They're like, "Well, is that funded at the moment?"
"No, but it's going to cost $4 million dollars of R and D in three years of development." And they're going to be like, "Well, that's a bad investment, so let's stick to what we know and try to make it better." So I think that is a realistic aspect of it. But in saying that, it doesn't mean it's futile. I mean, there's been so much-
Anton: I feel like crying actually. I feel like just-
Justin: No, but these are my no!
Anton: I feel like crying actually. I feel like just-
Alex: Every night!
Justin: There's been so much innovation! I remember when I first started-
Anton: Oh, I was on a high, I was on such a high.
Justin: No, it just like, it just means I think, I think the reason why I'm saying this is because when people are looking at this and they're like, they're thinking, "Oh, you know, mobile phones get developed so quickly. And you know, cars have so much innovation because you know, the market is a bit more free."
Anton: Yeah. It's true.
Justin: And we live in a market where at the moment, where a lot of the manufacturers have a very limited funding, a funding body. And I guess the challenge is there is to work out how do we get the funding body to acknowledge the hard work that clinicians are doing.
And the impact of the things that they're prescribing and the impact it has to the, to the clients, the savings that it has to the healthcare community, all those things. I think that would be the challenge. Not necessarily the, the lazy people at manufacturers who don't care about the wheelchair. Like I feel like they do care and there's probably, there probably is Anton a big table of global people that have a lot of ideas, but it's just like, how do we actually get these to market?
Anton: Like the everlasting light bulb that exists guys? Don't think that it doesn't. That exists. The people are just, they're just, yeah, yeah. I'm telling you, they're not, they're not releasing that. They're not releasing that. Hey! But listen, Quantum have done something for Australia. They've brought out the Outback.
Alex: Yes I was like, please. I was like-
Anton: The Outback
Alex: Its is all for you all! It's all for you all. We thought-
Justin: You guys don't have the Outback?
Anton: No, I'm saying you have.
Alex: No, we do.
Anton: But you said if Quantum, if Quantum did Australia? Well they have, right?! They brought the Outback.
Alex: That was an Australia demand.
Justin: We really appreciate it.
Anton: How is the Outback working out there?
Justin: Yeah, it's great. It's an, it's an awesome chair. Like it's does, does sort of, there was a bit of concern at the start about how it did on sand. Like it, I heard there was like overheated motors, but I think that's being resolved now. And now it's got great suspension. It's got, you know-
Anton: How do you guys think that compares to like the X8? The Magic Mobility X8 or something like that?
Justin: The XT4; It's actually funny. I was actually in the, we're actually going to do a side by side comparison.
Alex: Oh yeah. Because that's our brand new one. We don't have that here yet.
Anton: Yeah, it's not out here either.
Justin: Magic's not a big thing for you guys I hear in the, in around the world, but Magic's, Magic's pretty... yeah. It's got a, a long history, you know, Australian made.
Anton: No, it's getting bigger and bigger here all the time.
Justin: Yeah XT4 is their... their version of it. I haven't, I haven't done a side-by-side comparison. I'm sure there's people, I'm sure there's reasons one over the other, which is maybe one day in the future.
Anton: Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: Works would be like a comparison.
Anton: No, I think both chairs-
Justin: Brand versus that brand and comparing them all together, but at the moment-
Alex: Then give us any feedback, you know?
Anton: Yeah. I've heard only good things actually about the Outback to be fair. It's been really positive from what I've seen and, and... I'm yet to really work with it if I'm being honest. But it's not that long out here.
Justin: It is another one, like in terms of like, does it get funded? It is hard to say. Depends who you get, you know, because if someone's already got a power chair, will our funding body fund two chairs? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But you, yeah. Whereas in America it's very clear you will, or you will- it sounds like it's very clear in terms of 'you will get this' or 'you won't get this' based on this criteria.
Anton: Yeah.
Anton: No Guys, what an episode. Alex, thank you so much. I've genuinely loved it. You've got to come on for, for number three I think.
Alex: Anytime.
Anton: I know, honestly, I, I, yeah. We could chat to you all day.
Justin: We could just do this every week. I think we should.
Alex: I love it. I love it. This is great.
Anton: Yeah. No, definitely! But yeah, look guys, thanks for listening to Wheel Chat, great to have you here again for another episode. Please don't forget to click, like, and subscribe. It's so important that you do that to allow me and Justin to continue to make what we think is great content and help you guys, and educate all around the world in wheelchair seating and any other mobility requirements that you might need.
Justin, anything to say before we wrap it up?
Justin: No, that's it. Just if anyone else has any, ideas of things that they want in terms of content, it's all made for you guys, right? We can talk about anything all day. We had a big list of things that we wanted to chat about and we didn't get through them because we are very passionate. We're all very passionate in this area, and we can chat over, you know, over a whole night on these topics. But if you tell us exactly what you want to hear. We can chat about them in a very organic, authentic way so you can, you know, really know what's up in the industry.
Anton: Amazing.
Justin: Without all the, the flashiness with it. But yeah. Guys, thank you so much for listening today. We will see you again next week. Alex, thank you so much for having us on. And if you want to know more about Alex's charity work, rsvptexas.org. It is not a dating site, it's a charity site and she's doing great work.
Anton: Amazing. Thanks everyone. Thanks Alex.
Alex: Thanks everyone. Bye!