Creative Crossroads

Exploring Personal Curriculums: Passion Projects and Creative Pursuits

• Catherine Dutton & Ellyn Zinsmeister • Season 2 • Episode 3

Share episode

Share your thoughts & suggestions!

In this episode of Creative Crossroads, hosts Catherine and Ellyn discuss their new personal curriculums and the subjects they are passionate about learning. Ellyn  delves into her fascination with Frank Lloyd Wright, sharing insights from her visit to his winter camp in Arizona and the new Magnolia Network show, 'The Last Wright.' She also talks about collecting books on Wright's architecture. Catherine, on the other hand, is focused on updating her sexuality course, with a particular emphasis on the topic of consent. This work has led her to explore the evolution of societal concepts around creativity. Both emphasize the importance of personal creative projects and how they shape their artistic outputs. They also reflect on past experiences and how creativity has been a constant thread in their lives. The episode ends with a call to listeners to share their own learning journeys and personal curriculums.

00:00 Introduction and Today's Topic

00:27 Ellyn’s Fascination with Frank Lloyd Wright

01:17 Exploring Frank Lloyd Wright's Legacy

04:38 Catherine's Personal Curriculum on Creativity

08:07 The Evolution of Creativity and Personal Experiences

16:33 Art as a Personal and Political Outlet

21:08 Creative Projects and Future Plans

24:38 Conclusion and Viewer Engagement

Thanks for joining us at Creative Crossroads! Keep creating and we'll see you again soon!

Catherine:

Hi everybody. Welcome back to Creative Crosswords, where Ella and I are just gonna chat today a little bit about what's going on with us and. What we're learning about these days. And so Ellen, I know we talked about for today that maybe we might talk about our personal curriculum that we're starting to develop around what we wanna be learning over the next few weeks or months. Do you wanna talk a little bit about what you're gonna be learning about?

Ellyn:

Yes. Well, you introduced me to this concept of a personal curriculum because I have been obsessing over Frank Lloyd Wright lately. Um, and there's a little backstory. I mean, I always, always have been fascinated by architecture. My maternal grandfather was an architect back at the same time as Frank Lloyd Wright, and I was always intrigued by that. I probably should have studied architecture at some point in my life. I had such a fascination. It just, never occurred to me. Even getting into my quilting. I love buildings. I often use buildings in my quilting or representations of buildings, so it's always been a bit of a thing for me.

Catherine:

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn:

And when we were in Phoenix, well. One of the times we were in Phoenix this year, I think it was when our granddaughter was born, we had a free day and we went up to Esen. Now Tally Esen is Frank Lloyd Wright's winter camp in Scottsdale, Arizona, and that's where he would bring his students and they would live there in these tents and study under him. He had a house there and. They would study architecture and live there for a time and we got to tour the whole place. And it was, I mean, it was incredible architecture. First of all, it was very Frank Lloyd Wright, you know, melted into the, into the environment and you could see the mountains and all the landscape and everything, it was just so interesting to learn about how he taught and, and how these people lived and a little bit more about it. So I started getting really interested then. And then just a couple weeks ago I noticed on, Magnolia Network on tv, which we get streaming, there's a new show called The Last, right. And it's a show about. They're building the house that was on Frank Lloyd Wright's table drafting table when he died. So it never got built, but he finished the design for it, and the woman who bought the property where that house was supposed to be is building it according to his specs.

Catherine:

Oh, cool.

Ellyn:

Yeah, it's really fascinating and it happens to be in my hometown where I grew up, which is makes it even more intriguing. But it's fun to watch week to week as they go through the process. And of course, building codes have changed and supplies and materials have changed and processes. So watching them go through this process has just been. So fascinating. So yeah, so Catherine and I were out the other day. Catherine said, let's go to half price books. And I found like eight or 10 books about Frank Lloyd Wright, about his life, about his properties. I did not buy them all.

Catherine:

No you didn't.

Ellyn:

I was pretty proud of myself, but they're really interesting and that's my. Personal curriculum right now as I'm learning about Frank Lloyd Wright and his architecture and his buildings. So there's a lot to learn.

Catherine:

So as you're learning about it, you're watching that doc, the reality show. Right. And then you're reading some books about it and you had the visit, we'll, we'll call that visit as part of like the introduction

Ellyn:

Oh, I think

Catherine:

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ellyn:

I mean, I'd love to visit more. Of his properties. That's a goal for the future is I have been to Falling Water, which is in, Pennsylvania. When I was a kid. It was a short drive from where I lived, so I have been there. We have plans to go to the Guggenheim in New

Catherine:

Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah.

Ellyn:

which he designed. So that's one goal for the future, I'd like to find new ways to incorporate it into my art.

Catherine:

Yeah.

Ellyn:

In my quilting or just my journaling or whatever.

Catherine:

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn:

I, I am noodling on that.

Catherine:

I look forward to seeing how that evolves for you. That's gonna be really fun.

Ellyn:

Yeah. I think it'll be fun. So what, what are you, uh, into these days?

Catherine:

Well, you told me I couldn't talk about the real thing. I'm into, I'm teasing. Um, for those

Ellyn:

wanna hear about your, we don't wanna hear about your dating life every single episode. We're happy for you.

Catherine:

Okay. Well, so I like, honestly, I think one of the biggest things that I'm digging into these days, on a work side is I'm revamping my sexuality course. And so every week, I'm delving into a different topic for that course. And it's been really interesting to see like where the research is on these different topics and. My focus, like the last three weeks have been on consent and like what we know about consent and it's just been really interesting. I know not related to creativity, but it's actually kind of sparked where I'm going with my creativity because I was thinking about how our language around consent has changed over the past several decades. But then that got me to thinking about like, how has, how we've talked about creativity changed and how we as a society conceptualized creativity over the centuries, because creativity, like, you know, we saw. I don't really know yet, but that's my question. And so that's the question I want to explore with my curriculum is like, how has society like conceptualized creativity differently over generations? And like, I think if we look historically, my, my, my assumption is like, my initial thought is that it's probably has was very. It was oriented more probably around men or at least the history that we have probably has been. Whereas, and then it became this thing for the elite, for those who had time to be creative. And as society shifted and changed, I'm thinking that we're seeing it. We're seeing more women like being involved in creativity, but we're also seeing like acknowledgement that women's work is art and not just creative. I hope that's what I'm gonna find. I don't know. So I pulled a couple of pieces of academic literature this morning about like where we've been and where we're going in terms of like how we talk about creativity. I haven't read them yet, but I pulled them so. Next time we talk, I'll give my accountability for that. So that's, I think that's gonna be the main focus of my curriculum for this spring, or for this fall, is I'm gonna, there's the sexuality side of things because that's work and that's where my brain focuses a lot. But then the history of creativity and how we've conceptualized it, I think it'll be really interesting to look at.

Ellyn:

Oh, absolutely. Developing a new curriculum that's absolutely creative,

Catherine:

It has been, and it's been so much fun because like I, I threw, I literally threw out the textbook, let's not do that anymore. And so it started from scratch. It was like, what do we need to know about these topics? And it's just, it's been a lot of creativity and a lot of like, how can we talk about this in a way that's not the same thing that we've talked about it 50 times before. Especially because it's a graduate level class, having it be helping them to think on a higher level about it has been, it's pushed my creativity and I'm enjoying that part of it.

Ellyn:

That's exciting. You're using that side of your brain to work on a college level curriculum. I mean, I think

Catherine:

Yeah.

Ellyn:

that's very cool. And the research on creativity. I'm anxious to hear how that goes and how it manifests in your own creative work.

Catherine:

Yeah, I think that'll be interesting too and just, I've been working on like a personal timeline for the past six months or so, like of just my life and like things in my life. And it's interesting to think about throughout my life, all of the different exposure that I've had to different creative outlets and like the different types of lessons I took as a kid and then as an adult. The different areas I've, I've, anyways, there's a creative line now, like what was my, what was my creative outlet or output or my learning in within creativity? There's now a line within that timeline about that, so it'll be interesting to see how that overlaps with

Ellyn:

see a lot of connection between what you did as a kid and how it has worked itself out as an adult?

Catherine:

I think what I see like as the shift between kid and adult is as a kid I was exploring the creative outlets that my parents wanted me to explore, and not in a bad way, but like they directed me more towards the music world. And I loved music, but I was not talented in music. We tried, like, I had piano lessons and violin lessons and flute lessons and voice lessons. Like there was like very concerted effort for Catherine to be musical and I wasn't. And I, I never really was. And I liked to sing, but I'm not. Particularly good at any of it. It's just not where my talent is and not where my passion is. And, um, but what I think I've seen more is as an adult, like I went into something that was a safe, creative outlet, which was quilting and it was something that was comfortable and I was familiar with it and it was safe. And then especially over the past few years, I've gotten into a whole bunch of other things that I thought were not. Mediums or types of creativity that were anything that I was able to do and yeah. And I think,

Ellyn:

how, how people in our childhood have such an impact. I had a situation where early in elementary school, I had an art teacher tell me I didn't have a creative bone in my body.

Catherine:

oh my gosh,

Ellyn:

So

Catherine:

should be fired.

Ellyn:

well, I mean, he was considerably older than me, so, you know, I don't know where he is today, but, it stifled my visual arts creativity. I, too was very creative in music and I actually connected with music and,

Catherine:

Yeah. You're very talented with it.

Ellyn:

And I, I don't really use it today, but I. As a child, that was a great creative outlet for me,

Catherine:

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn:

I kind of did my sewing and my scrapbooking and those things quietly at home by myself, like, because he said I wasn't good at it. So I didn't feel like it was something I could share with the world. It was just, I mean, it was always something I loved.

Catherine:

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn:

But it was private.'cause I di I felt like I had to hide, you know? And it

Catherine:

It wasn't good enough. It wasn't worthy to be seen by others.

Ellyn:

And it wasn't until well into adulthood that I was like, oh, wait a minute. here's the deal. He wanted us to paint a bowl of fruit. Here's the bowl of fruit, you know, typical art class. And you know how I. Operate. Mine didn't look much like his.

Catherine:

No. No.

Ellyn:

was it because I wasn't good at it or because I just took a different spin like I do and you know, I'll never know. I, I don't have my picture from back then.

Catherine:

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn:

But he wanted realistic bowl of fruit just like mine.

Catherine:

Yeah.

Ellyn:

And, I wasn't able to give him that or didn't choose to.

Catherine:

Yeah. I, I had a, I had a middle school art teacher and I was so excited to take art and like to take it from him, I had looked forward to this class I think like the first half of the semester was really focused on very like literal drawings I understand as part of like, if drawing is your focus, like that it's important. It can be important to know how to do those things. But I remember specifically like a project where we were doing perspective and I just like, I did not get it and it wasn't something that I was enjoying and I was just like, this is not for me, obviously I'm not good at this. I'm not good at drawing. And like that was the script that I had in my head for many years. And then. As you and I started to explore watercolor and other painting, I began to think like I don't have to be good at drawing an apple to be good at painting. Like those are two different skills and I can paint things that don't look like anything, but still enjoy painting them.

Ellyn:

and who gets to decide if you're good at painting, you do.

Catherine:

do. I do. Yeah, exactly.

Ellyn:

And that's so cool. And that's what's cool about this personal curriculum thing, DEC we get to decide, you know, at this point in our lives, gosh, for so many years, you go to school and you learn whatever they shove down your throat. Whatever they decide is important for you to know

Catherine:

Right. Yeah.

Ellyn:

learn. But now we get to choose.

Catherine:

I know, and I really, I like this idea that like we get to choose what we wanna focus on and then how we're gonna do it. Like you're gonna read some books, I'm gonna read some articles. I'll probably read a couple of, I've read a few books on creativity. I'll probably find a couple more. But like in the end, I wanna create like a timeline for myself. Like that's what I wanna have at the end is like, how has creativity evolved? But like we each get to decide what that output's gonna be. We don't have to write a paper.

Ellyn:

Right. Well, I think the interviews we're doing are part of

Catherine:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Ellyn:

each guest that we talk to, I learn so much about their creativity, it gives me things to think about. So

Catherine:

Oh yes, I would agree. And our interview with Luke recently was just, Ugh, that blew my mind.

Ellyn:

you'll get to hear that next week.

Catherine:

Yeah.

Ellyn:

So I look forward to that

Catherine:

By the time they wait, when will this air? It'll air on Friday. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So you guys will get to hear it in a couple days after this comes

Ellyn:

but you've already heard us talk to, my friend Kathy about her weaving and just a whole different spin, if you will, on creativity. I mean, just really lots of things to think about. So if you're new here. Check back to last year. We're not on YouTube last year. You'll have to go to your podcast apps. You can listen to the interviews we did last year and there's some really interesting guests and interesting things to hear there too. They're all still there and still relevant.

Catherine:

Yes. Oh, absolutely. No, I feel like we learned a lot about, I wanna go back and listen to those episodes again, because I feel like we really did learn a lot about different aspects of creativity and how different people approached the sharing of their creativity. And just like the mindset around being creative

Ellyn:

I agree with you.

Catherine:

yeah, was really interesting. It got me thinking outside my box.

Ellyn:

Absolutely. Oh, it's given me so much. I mean, and we feed off of each other. You and I give each other things to think about too.

Catherine:

Absolutely.

Ellyn:

That's, I mean, I'm not a college professor, but I've got a few extra years of life on you. So

Catherine:

You know what? Honestly, like all that shows is that I'm really good at school. That's all it shows.

Ellyn:

good for you.

Catherine:

good at following other people's procedures, like that's what that is.

Ellyn:

I admire that. And I was thinking too, with me having a few extra years, I mean, I can think back to being creative in the early 1960s

Catherine:

Yeah.

Ellyn:

and I can kind of see how creativity and art with women has evolved. I mean, what I can see in my personal life, I think it'll be fascinating to see what you learn

Catherine:

It was interesting as I was working on like the timeline for the stuff for my class, I kept thinking about how does this play into it? How does this play into it? What prompted that legislation? And then, you know, like, and I think I can see myself going down the same line of thinking with the creativity piece. It'll be interesting. It was, as I started to look at the different layers within that timeline, I was like, these things really are so interrelated and like how we changed conversations as. A society was often prompted by, um, by like some sort of shift or movement within another aspect of society. And so I think it'll be interesting to see how that layers in with creativity as well.

Ellyn:

Yeah, and how can we continue those conversations?

Catherine:

Yeah. And I think, I don't know, I think in times like this right now, where it feels like it's difficult to be in this world, having creative outlets and being able to express our creativity can help us feel like we have a, A safe place.

Ellyn:

Mm-hmm. A safe place and a voice,

Catherine:

Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. A voice. Yeah.'cause it feels, feels hard right though.

Ellyn:

It does sometimes, but I think finding joy in the things you create and whether, whichever direction you choose to take that, like some people are using this as an opportunity to be very outspoken and political through their art.

Catherine:

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn:

Um, others.

Catherine:

Which is, which is really neat to see. Like, I love seeing people taking that, like using their art to give them voice in that

Ellyn:

I like that too. I like that too. But myself personally, I don't know. I mean, look behind me and my art is kind of all sunshine and bright colors and, and I'm like, well, that's where I find joy. So I'm going to continue to find joy and help others find joy.

Catherine:

Yeah,

Ellyn:

but you know, however we choose to address it. I think art is such a crucial part of, of who

Catherine:

I would agree with that. Yeah. I think about the project that I did a few years ago with my quilt. It was a very expressive quilt, right? Like, but I think because for me, in part, it was a way for me to process and react to some things that I was going through in therapy and like, and I needed. Outlet at that time. But it's funny because I had kind of planned this whole series of quilts to go along with it, and it was like, no, I don't need those anymore. And it's okay. Like that's, that's okay because that outlet served an important purpose at that moment for me. I don't need that in the same way now. So yeah, I

Ellyn:

Yeah, that's true.

Catherine:

Our art and our creativity, we express it in ways that we need to at that time.

Ellyn:

I think I never understood early on that my art could tell part of my story.

Catherine:

Yes.

Ellyn:

that's something that came, I, I think during the pandemic was the first time I really started telling stories through some of my quilts.

Catherine:

Mm-hmm.

Ellyn:

and I was like, oh, look at that.'cause I would take classes and the teacher would say, well, tell a story with your quilt. And I'm like. I've got nothing. Yeah.

Catherine:

like it's

Ellyn:

I like these colors and they work together. Yeah. And that's not what they were looking for. And, and I had to come to that realization on my own. But I think, you know, during the pandemic, I had several quilts that spoke to issues during that

Catherine:

You did.

Ellyn:

since then I've, I've used my stories even more in my quilts and I

Catherine:

Mm-hmm. I like, I've enjoyed seeing that development of your voice and your stories into your, into your quilts. It's been really fun to see that. Yeah. I think

Ellyn:

fun to do.

Catherine:

I've seen it for me in like my journaling, I. I was never a big journaler until I started therapy a few years ago, and then I started, and then I just needed a place to put all the thoughts, right? And they weren't pretty, but I just needed a place to put them. So I started putting them in journals and then. I, I don't know. There was this moment where I was like, why does it all have to be words? Like, why does everything have to be words and why does it have to be written in lines? Like maybe it's just like five words on a page and they're just really emphasized or whatever. And I know a lot of people share art journals online, and I will probably never share any pages of mine online because they're not, they're not pretty and they're not. It's not aesthetic, but it's what I needed to express what I was feeling at the time. And I think that it became a really powerful source of creativity for me, like the personal creativity to express and to work through feelings. So yeah, it was a whole new way for me to think about journaling, um, not just a log of what I did for the day. So,

Ellyn:

That's really cool and my mine are mostly art journals and they rarely reflect what's going on in my personal life.

Catherine:

Mm.

Ellyn:

Often minor. It's a quote that grabbed me, that someone, something someone put out there online or something I heard or read in a book and you know, and then art evolving around that quote. More often that's where I tend to go.

Catherine:

And I think like it's, it's different for each of us. It serves a different purpose for everyone. Yeah.

Ellyn:

Yeah. And that's exciting.

Catherine:

It's fun.

Ellyn:

Okay. Well, what are you looking forward to this week?

Catherine:

what am I looking forward to this week? I am going to finish. I've been painting the cover of a journal. I'm gonna finish painting that.

Ellyn:

cool.

Catherine:

so yeah, I'm gonna finish painting that. Creativity wise, that's my plan.

Ellyn:

That's a good plan.

Catherine:

I have a hot date for the weekend. But we won't talk about that.

Ellyn:

You can mention it. It's fine. It's

Catherine:

about you?

Ellyn:

you know what, I've also been decorating the cover of a journal and, uh, I didn't bring it thing to bring it in the room to show it to you, but I've been, uh, using like some gel prints and tearing them up and using pieces of'em

Catherine:

Oh, fine.

Ellyn:

collage on the cover of a journal that I intend to use for Fodder school coming up. That'll be

Catherine:

Oh, cool.

Ellyn:

my Fodder School journal.

Catherine:

Awesome. What type of, did you get like a specific type of paper for it or are you just doing like a regular paper journal.

Ellyn:

It's like a mixed media paper I think in the journal. Um, it's a journal that I had last Christmas. The word got out that I was interested in art journaling, and I think I got about six. Art journals, gifts from people including you? Maybe,

Catherine:

Yes,

Ellyn:

One of them came from you. So it was one that I already had, and I can't honestly remember who this one came from, but it, I already had it and I'm like, this is gonna work. And uh, yeah, it's a thicker paper. It's not watercolor paper, so I wanna say more of a mixed media paper. So it'll, it'll take some paint. I've already tested that out. It'll take some paint

Catherine:

Excellent.

Ellyn:

Without bleeding and all of that. So yeah, I think it'll be great. We'll share more of that as we go along too.

Catherine:

Are you doing like a specific color palette for Fodder School?

Ellyn:

I, yeah, I am working out a color palette and I, I need to make that page with colors so many people I watch with the junk journaling and art journaling are using kind of the antique and subdued colors and it just isn't

Catherine:

That's just not you.

Ellyn:

It'll be a bright palette. It'll be my usual probably.

Catherine:

I love that.

Ellyn:

What about

Catherine:

been thinking, I have never done that before with, with Fodder school.'cause I've always just, whatever I'm in the mood for, that's what I do. Um, so I don't know. I might try it with the caveat that I very likely will change my mind at some point through the process, but it would be,

Ellyn:

Yeah, pretty much everything I do. It's with that caveat.

Catherine:

That's true. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But it would be nice to be able to like just have like the right colors out and just kinda have my fodder school colors that I don't have to figure out something new every time. So I don't

Ellyn:

It just takes one thing out of the decision process.

Catherine:

Yeah, what Luke said, like that we need to build our own box.

Ellyn:

Don't give it all away.

Catherine:

I know, but now maybe they'll listen to it'cause it's so good.

Ellyn:

It is so good. But yeah, he did talk about boxes and I've always felt that, I mean, we need parameters. I can't create, I mean, I'm a improv quilter generally, and, but that doesn't mean I just grab things out of a box and start sewing'em together. I always have some kind of guidelines.

Catherine:

I am gonna be honest. It was kind of a, it was a, it was a light bulb moment for me and it was like, oh my gosh, this makes so much sense. I need to give myself more parameters because I'll frequently sit down and I have so many possibilities. I don't do anything. And so a, DD for the win,

Ellyn:

That can happen. Very cool. All right, well I hope we've, given you all something to think about. I mean, this is what's going on in our brains right now.

Catherine:

But maybe you guys will comment. Tell us about your personal curriculum. What are you doing, like, what are you learning about these days? And it doesn't have to be anything formal. You're, we're definitely not doing anything. I mean, we're, we're exploring things that we're interested in and

Ellyn:

I am. I'm not going back for an architecture degree. I can tell you that

Catherine:

I'm not gonna get a degree in creativity. Yeah.

Ellyn:

It's just for us, it's

Catherine:

Yep. Just for fun stuff. Yep.

Ellyn:

There you

Catherine:

All right, well thanks you guys so much for joining us. Oh, I'll let you say it.

Ellyn:

Thanks for coming and I hope you'll join us again on Creative Crossroads. Take care.

Catherine:

Thanks everybody. Bye.

Head Shot

Catherine Dutton

Co-host
Head Shot

Ellyn Zinsmeister

Co-host