Uniting Native Voices: Strategies for Advocacy in a Shifting Political Landscape

In this thought-provoking episode, Native leaders and experts come together to discuss the implications of a second Donald Trump presidency for Indian Country. With Trump's recent appointment of North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum as Interior Secretary, concerns are mounting about the potential rollback of environmental protections and the push for increased fossil fuel extraction on tribal lands.
The panel, featuring the publisher of Native News Online, Levi Rickert, journalists Neely Bardwell and Marlon WhiteEagle, and Dr. Aaron Payment, delves into the misinformation surrounding the 2024 election and Native voting patterns. They highlight the importance of accurate data and representation, as well as the need for a unified Native voice to advocate for sovereignty, sacred sites, and federal trust responsibilities.
Navigating an uncertain political landscape, the guests explore strategies for maintaining hope and continuing the fight for Native rights, regardless of who occupies the White House. They emphasize the crucial role of Native media in monitoring government actions, building alliances in Congress, and ensuring that the unique needs of Indigenous communities are heard and respected.
This episode offers a candid and insightful look at the challenges and opportunities facing Native America in the face of a potential second Trump administration, underscoring the resilience and determination of Native leaders to protect their communities and their way of life.

This podcast is produced by Native News Online, with funding support from the MacArthur Foundation, the National Congress of American Indians, and Four Directions.

Follow us on Facebook, X, Linkedin, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok! For all of our coverage visit www.nativenewsonline.net

Transcript

This is the native vote. Native voice Podcast. I'm Sean Griswald, today, President Elect Donald Trump continues his plans to form his new administration into 2025 the episode of today's show is a little different. You'll hear from the familiar voices of native news online publisher Levi Ricker, journalist Neely Bardwell and Marlon White Eagle, friend of the show, Dr Aaron Payman also joins us later. He wanted this one as an open discussion about how the native vote impacted the 2024 election, and what another Donald Trump administration could mean for indigenous people and its nations. We start with the focus on a bunk exit poll that set into motion a string of misinformation on which candidate native people voted for the poll gave a national view that all Native Americans supported Donald Trump, while that may be the case in some tribal communities and with some native voters, it is an inaccurate portrayal, and it falls into this myth that all native people are the same. From there, if we look to 2025 and discuss a bit about what a Trump administration could do for Indian country, including some analysis of his Interior Secretary nominee North Dakota governor, Doug Burgum. We have a larger story about Burgum that you can read at Native news online.
We're 100 years as US citizens, right and 1924 Indian Citizenship Act. Let me rephrase that. That kind of tripped up on words. This is where we are with this 100 years after receiving citizenship through the Snyder Act, also known as the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act. Here we are with some of the same issues related to Native Americans, with with conversations about voter suppression and even even lack of care by the other media, mainstream media, of how to even report on Native Americans voting so at Native news online, we just felt was really critical that we help set the stage that that proves we are legitimate voting source forced to be reckless. If you want to say it that way, the native vote in 2020, definitely made the difference. I'm not so sure about this yet. We're still analyzing the numbers, but I just want to say that, as the publisher of native news online, I felt it was really critical to really do a good job with this election, and we went out and raised money to help support our political coverage of the presidential election this year. And that's why, in the final analysis, when the NBC exit poll came out showing Trump received 65% we kind of knew those numbers were not accurate, and so we really dug in. We had already been in the process of beginning a poll right after the election that determined how people voted, when they actually made up their mind to vote, and what were the top issues. And we've been able to secure those and we publish it article today on Friday, the 15th of the 2024 but point I want to make is we didn't rush with these numbers. It took us a week to really produce those, and I just felt, as a publisher that we wanted to be very careful, because when we pushed back on the exit poll by NBC News. We wanted to have accurate numbers, and we wanted to kind of cross reference, make sure we got them right in I don't know if there's ever any poll that's 100% foolproof, but we have worked really hard to be diligent introduce what we think are pretty accurate numbers.
I do want to say that this was our plan all along, to do an exit poll as well from the very beginning of our election coverage, this was always our plan. So we didn't just flat out the exit poll because of the NBC poll, but we are glad that we did, just because I think it is important to have native representation, especially when it comes to statistical representation, we have, as Native people experienced a sort of data erasure, a sort of genocide, in terms of data and in research. I mean, as someone who obviously did a lot of research in college. I know firsthand what it's like to survey native people and get data on Native people, and how hard it is, but we really are combating that data erasure for Native people with this exit poll, especially since we're Direct. Going to be contradicting the results the data from NBCs. So,
yeah, that was so interesting to see how swiftly the response came to NBC exit poll. Native people were suspicious immediately. And then there were sources like native news online that were there to accurately report that this might be one sample, 65% but it doesn't completely it's faulty in so many ways, in part because it doesn't geographically calculate all the native people out there. There are no distinct, distinct tribal precincts. Most secretaries of states in the country do not have election divisions that even coordinate with tribal communities. There's issues with polls even, you know, people even having the basic issue of printing out their ballot in a place like Arizona exists for native voters. So it's like the structure isn't even that sophisticated to be able to calculate and pinpoint how Native people vote. So to say, 65% are Trump supporters. I think Levi, in one way, speaks to the power of the native vote that led the Republican Party would immediately latch on to this number. That's false. And the very you know, 48 hours after the election, where we're immediately in a space talking on some misinformation from Maga Republicans and Don and support from Donald Trump also shows that native people wanted to show to Trump, hey, we support you. And I've heard some of that tone even in the past week, of like, Let's feed to the ego of the incoming president of President elect Trump, and say, hey, look, native people do support you, are willing to work with you. Has been a tone we've seen, but there haven't been too many Native Voices really speaking out loudly about it, and the person that is now publicly stating this 65% misinformation is making the rounds, and it's starting with former Navajo Nation President Myron Leiser, who is proudly, boastfully in Indian Country, becoming the person not only stating this exit polling data from NBC News, but also getting to what we're talking about here, which is the Indian country is so diverse, you're not going to have this 65% outcome in every tribal community. We make one or two. And Liza is certainly a minority voice as a maga supporter, supporter for President elect Trump, on the Navajo Nation, but he does have some population there, not 65% I'd say, and that's what all your polling data is showing. Well,
that's what's interesting. Beyond our poll that we conducted with Qualtrics, we actually dug in our staff, editorial staff, dug in this past week on the actual numbers coming from some of the precincts that are on or near Indian reservations, I will cite Red Lake Nation up in Minnesota, 92% of the voters in the 2% on that reservation voted for Kamala Harris, 92% just like there are comparable just Like there are pockets that are 90 to 95% for Republicans in certain red states. And so I think that's interesting. And when you look at the overall numbers versus those who live on or near reservations, we're still seeing strong Democratic support. And even on the reservation, Navajo Nation, with Apache County is one of them. I recall the numbers are 80% for Kamala Harris, of course. Jonathan Ness, the former president of the Navajo Nation, was running for Congress. He helped generate a lot of votes. And so as a statistician, and I'm not a statistician, but statisticians will tell you, it takes time to really analyze these numbers, so you can analyze them every which way you can. But I, and I will say this, that we will native news, online, conducted four polls, as Neely mentioned, we will have a report that will be ready by mid January, I'm going to buy a little time, because I want to do it right. I don't want to rush with this. And here's information, and it's not done correctly. So we want to write it, have it reviewed by some experts in the fields, and so that we know that we're producing a good, well, well documented report that that other people can use in future elections, as it relates to Native Americans vote? Well,
I think to one of the underlying motifs, if you will, of this situation, is that indigenous people aren't a monolith, and so what we're seeing like what Levi just said in communities like Red Lake, they voted 92% for Harris. But in other communities, and it's obviously, like Levi said, very difficult to see exactly the numbers, just because tribal nations don't have polling stations, they don't have specific precincts for themselves, so we can't go. Okay, where's the Navajo Nation precinct? Because that's not a thing that would be helpful.
Well, there are some in some space, like Window Rock is capital that that has precinct and voting locations in Arizona. But there's also non native people that live there and vote there. It doesn't, it doesn't completely include all Native people, plus Native people, the majority now don't live on reservations. Doesn't include the people like myself who lives off, who lives in Albuquerque. But, you know, votes in a tribal election in Laguna to different dynamic we have. We vote differently than most US citizens. That's that's our sovereignty. Uh, here, one thing I'm interested in is about also the outreach in Wisconsin, with the Republican National Convention showing up there, and Marlon, the impact of, if any, Donald Trump taking the Republican Party to Wisconsin, having tribal outreach, where we did see a tribal chairperson speak to the RNC convention. Marlin, I'm just curious if, from what you saw in talking to voters and what you saw there, did the Republican outreach there have any impact on its vote and sway towards India country? Some reports
show that Trump had earned an additional 90,000 votes from 2020 to 2024, and Harris did show numbers larger than Biden did in 2020 but not enough to surpass Donald Trump with the with the amount that 90,000 additional votes that he got. So there was some res you know, that RNC being here in the state did have its effect. And I'm just thinking about the poll that we that is the current poll. You know, we see that Trump won, and it was similar to the nation the national polling and, you know, it's just interesting that it comes out that the however he did it, he he came out on top, even though, you know, there was a lot of rhetoric, there was a lot of kind of, you know that some pundits say, call it bullying and whatnot. But you know, it's interesting how, how that that message, you know, it's conveyed to the people and and they support them.
It does look fair. People shrugged this this year, they just shrugged off some of those insults he his campaign, and even even include the Madison Square Garden rally, where it was so insensitive to the Puerto Ricans and yet Hispanics seem to shrug that off. It let's even talk about Native America. You know, we are facing a potential crisis with the land grab, meaning land back with the nomination of Doug Burgum from the state of North Dakota. It's all about oil and gas and that, I think, that the previous Trump administration was very clear, and I referenced when I was at a winter session of the National Congress of American Indians in Washington, where several members of the cabinet and of the administration walked on stage, each one were saying, hey, Native America, you have over 20% on the untapped energy resource in the United States, on your tribal lands. You need to get with it and sign agreements, and we'll help you get prosperous. You know, even the Secretary of Education had that message, and I thought that was just so odd. Betsy DeVos at the time would say, we need your oil and gas. And it's like, oh my goodness, this is got our tolls, or our survey shows that Native Americans just just over 50% and we rounded up to 51% shrugged and said, It's okay. And some of the pundits are saying on national television is asking, did they not believe the man is going to do what he says he's going to do? Well, I think some of the candidate choices are showing that this week. Sean so
Levi, you know, we can, we'll have to spend a lot of time working to pay attention to understand what the numbers show with tribal precincts. It takes work to identify that. But stuff is already happening. I appreciate you transitioning into, you know, looking at appointment picks, looking at who's going to lead the Department of Interior. We have an answer to that. We know who Donald Trump has at least appointed. There's going to be a process right as government works, you know, the Trump administration is going to require the Senate to confirm North Dakota's governor who has been appointed as Donald Trump's interior nominee, replacing Deb Haaland. We started with the idea of the misinformation on exit polling tracking that as best we can. And now we're into appointment picks. Trump is moving fast and and, and you know, his appointment is looking to have a full list of people. Do you have any other thoughts on his Cabinet picks
so far? Well, clear what Marlon has to say about those Cabinet picks.
Yeah, going back to the RNC, you know, Levi and I had had a lunch, and we went into a local restaurant there in Milwaukee, which, you know, a lot of the businesses in the area of the RNC, they didn't see the economic impact that that they were told that they would see they didn't see that. But we went to have a lunch, and then we ran into the the Ag pick Matt gates. And it was interesting because, you know, Levi pointed him out. And then I, I seen him with a co worker, our aid, maybe, and they're pointing to our table, but there was a lady that was in the restaurant wanting to use the restroom, and they didn't let her use it, so she went right outside the restaurant and went to bathroom right there. But they were pointing over it was happening right over my shoulder, out the window in front of the restaurant that but it's a interesting that, you know, we run into feature potential Attorney General of the United States in the restaurant in Milwaukee during The RNC.
It, quite frankly, when it was released earlier this week, I think Wednesday evening, right? I was at home, and I came across my phone. I was I passed it around to people. I said, This is absurd. This is a guy that was under investigation in the house for not at all the allegations, but they really involved having sex with a 17 year old. And then I found out later that night, Senator Mark Wayne Mullen was on MSNBC talking about how to say Matt Gates was in the on the House floor showing nude pictures. I mean, this is absurd that this man is being recommended to be the Attorney General of the United States. Well,
he just resigned as well, not even that long, like literally a day ago, Matt Gaetz has resigned from Congress among his ag nomination. But this also his resignation comes before the ethics community committee meets. So are those two correlated? My guess would be yes. But as far as other picks as well, we also saw Kristen, no from South Dakota, being nominated for, I think, Homeland Security. And in case listeners don't know, she is banned from every single tribal reservation in her state. And I remember reading specifically that is like around 20% of her state. So that is 20% of her state that she cannot travel to, and that is because she, you know, was spurting rhetoric that is harmful to Native communities, equating drug cartels with Native communities, saying that we couldn't raise our Children because we were too focused on selling drugs, and so she is effectively banned from all of those tribal nations in her state. And I think if that's any indication of what's to come, I think we could definitely see a lot of very interesting changes to say the least. Should she get confirmed by Congress?
And that's a fascinating element for the South Dakota, North Dakota connection. North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, I'm going to have that name cemented on my head forever, because that's the name that we're all going to be talking about for the next for however long he's within this administration, if he makes a role in that and another tie that I believe, to Governor Nome in South Dakota is the energy elements. Levi you mentioned this as an issue of oil and gas exploration pipelines in North and South Dakota, major native territory is now in the hands of people who are going to maneuver all of that. And. And and so what tribes participate in? I guess we'll have to follow this. How are we going to learn about that? Do you have any insight as to how we can understand what tribes will if they do, will participate in any of the business opportunity sides of future energy industry happening in North and South Dakota, since Trump says, drill, baby drill, that indicates businesses, we're going to resistance, but I'm curious who's going to
be making I think that is something that we have been talking about internally since the election itself, is the fact that native news online, on behalf of Indian Country, really will take that watchful eye, because we look at so many aspects of the government, and how many different departments and agencies that actually impact the lives of Native Americans across the board? HHS the interior of course, you know, a lot of people think it's just the Interior Department. No, we're the Bureau of Indian Affairs is housed. No, it's like 18 or thereabouts, different federal departments and agencies that impact the lives of Native Americans every single day. And so I think that's a kind of take the watchdog approach, where we're we're going to watch out for Indian country. And that's where I think native media can become very become stronger, and whereas we may not be happy with some of the things happening, we can be that watchful eye and bring attention to some of the things. Because I'm looking for a wide sweep reduction of the national monuments, because the President's had that within their power to do that, that Joe Biden did, and he called the national monuments to the to the resistance of people, particularly in Utah. I remember that they were really upset with him. And I think that's that's going to happen. And interior, if he gets confirmed by the Senate, interior secretary, Doug Byrne burn gum, will probably push for those reductions of those national national monumental sites that Native Americans, we have so many sacred sites within those areas. And I think that's that's it. And quite frankly, when they The announcement came through last night and we got ready to do a story, I actually felt that sense of sadness of seeing Secretary Holland. You know, she's in her last 100 days thereabouts, and that's gonna be sad for Native America, because here it is, she brought such great joy when she was nominated and then confirmed. And her attention was on Native America, and it was way beyond that, because the the job, the role of being the interior secretary, covers just vast I read earlier today, a billion acres, right? That's a, well, that's a that's a lot of territory for one person. It's not just one, because there's obviously a lot of 1000s employees in the Interior Department, but yet, same point as the leader of that department, she did a pretty good job. And I, I for one, will miss Deb Holland being the Secretary of the Interior, because I think as native news, we felt like we had good access with her people. We could get to Deb Holland when we needed to talk to her, and certainly Brian Newman, he'll be leaving the assistant secretary. Being a Michigan guy, right? He's from our state where I am, I mean, Grand Rapids, but he was from Bay Mills, so I knew Brian prior to becoming the assistant secretary. So I'm gonna miss both of them. And I think that as we reflect on what happened with the election and as we I'll sum it up by saying we really do have to have that watchful eye so that we can protect as much as of what the issues are important to Native Americans, as as we know to be true, and they were became evident With even our polling that we did all year, consistently, sacred sites was one of the largest and most highly issues that were of concern to Native Americans, sacred sites, tribal sovereignty, water rights settlements. So that is the role for native media is to really be that watchful eye, and we may lose the battles here and there, but we have got to bring to the forefront so that we have to keep fighting for our protections as Native people. I
do agree with Levi in the sense that it is very disappointing to go from Auntie Deb Holland and you know, uncle Brian Newland taking on the Department of Interior together and really making great strides in Indian country through that department. You know, it's very it's not easy to get off, get through that bureaucratic red tape, as Levi likes to call it, white tape. But. Get through that really bureaucratic structure and really make change. But we did see change. With Deb Holland and Brian Newland in those positions, we saw the boarding school healing coalition. They released two reports, and because of those two reports, we saw an apology from President Biden for the atrocities of the boarding schools, and none of that would have been possible without them. And so it is truly disappointing to see the real life effects of the Trump presidency, and it's what the Kamala Harris campaign was talking about the entire time, about, do you want to vote to go back, or do you want to vote to go continue to go forward, and unfortunately, the country voted to go backwards. And we are going to be seeing that we have unfortunately, we're going to be losing a native person in a cabinet position that really matters the most for Indian country. It manages and touches so many different aspects of different issues that affect Indian country. And unfortunately, we are probably going to be seeing a lot of removing of certain protections that the Department of Interior put into place while Secretary Holland was in there. And honestly, the Trump campaign and the Maga Republicans and have been touting that 65% of native people voted Republican. If we want to go with that, let's go with that. But if we're going to go with that, then that's a commitment from the Trump campaign, or at least it should be, to ensure that our voices and our issues are respected. So if they want to go out on social media, on news networks and interviews and talk about the native vote, they voted 65% for Republicans. What are you going to do about it? Because in our polls and in every in the ton of other polls, the biggest issue, like Levi said, is the protection of sacred sites, and that is one of the biggest issues in Project 2025 that they are talking about, removing protections of sacred sites. And unfortunately, I don't think people were listening to project 2025 and what we were talking about it, I don't think people were listening. And unfortunately, we are going to have to see the real life effects of it for four years. The
reality is the moment of moving forward. I think we have to at least reflect on it being a somber moment for people, and seeing the shift and the legacy that Secretary Holland leaves does leave with fighting with Governor Doug Burgum from North Dakota, who had filed lawsuits against the Interior Department for more oil and gas leases in his state, and now he's taking that into the new leadership role of essentially fighting an agency in court now leading that agency, I think we can expect What's going to happen when it comes to the motive. To the motivations and the actions made very clear from role of somebody like Governor Burgum, if he does become the interior secretary, immediately comes in fighting, and that's for Berthold Reservation. That's, that's, that's native people who are producing, who are being extracted, who are having their lands drilled, mined for domestic policy, energy policy. Levi one of the other things to keep it in the Dakotas, we're going to have to, you're going to have to open up some new spaces there. You know, I'm looking at Senator John Thune, role he's taken in now as the Senate Majority Leader. Do you have any thoughts on that? Well,
actually we've been, we've been trying to contact some tribal officials there, and one, one person sent note that says he actually is really great to work with, and he is very sensitive to the needs of Indian country. And I guess I took note of when I was at the one of the conferences or summits out there in Rapid City recently, his somebody from his staff was there sitting at the table listening. And so that, to me, is very encouraging. And I think that, you know, let's, let's just be honest, he actually defied the wishes of Donald Trump for this. This by by his fellow senators, the Republicans. They did not want him. They were throwing out the name Senator Scott and what's the Texas senator Crow and I think, and they really prefer those two over Thune. Thune is more centralist, albeit he has supported Trump in the past.
Yeah, I think that's interesting about Thune. And what you said in that response is he already understands the tribal government to government relationships, and his role as a senator and Senate Majority which Donald Trump is likely going to have full Congress on his side, Republicans control the House. House and like, and we'll control the Senate. Now, what's interesting there is not every Republican senator and House member supports Donald Trump. Many of them may have even didn't want him to be president, you know, we'll never know now, but now everyone's getting in line. But it'll be interesting to see how those politics line up. It could be an issue where the county like for, you know, to kind of break it down to how it could be. It's like the tribal council fighting the council president, even if they're both related and have the same policies. There's still politics that happen. Government is not fun. Marlon, I mean, you kind of got to know a little bit about what that's like and fighting with people who have the same vision politically. But getting things done governing is another task at hand, and that's now what Trump is responsible for. So it'll be interesting to see that and what Thune does and his voice potentially for Indian country. But just having the presence of knowing and having respect for the government to government relationship is a strong presence. That's one of the things we hear consistently, right that start there. Just, just know and respect sovereignty, respect the governments, and treat, treat us like you would any other government. I mean, is that kind of like on day one Marlon when it comes to working with the tribal governments? Just at least start there? Yeah,
definitely. You know, every election cycle it's a new start. Start over. You know, teaching about sovereignty to these elected officials on the state level, as well as the National, you know, the federal level. And interestingly enough, here in Wisconsin, just yesterday, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources approved the permit for the Enbridge pipeline up north here by the band river Chippewa. And you know, it's, it's to reroute out of the out of the reservation, but you know, the the water that's there that needs the protection. It's really, you know, I guess it shows a sign that, you know this drill, drill, baby drill. Mantra is, you know, it's taking effect. Do you
think Indian country is going to have to have this conversation with itself about how much do we need to uphold our values, our traditional values, many of us are religious values of protecting the land and preserving it and honoring it as best we can, versus the contemporary values of make as much money as possible, right? Which leads us to places where we have to now extract
from the land. I think you know, looking at our the Native issues on the poll that was just conducted that maybe 3% of the respondents, you know, said, and that's probably in 4050 respondents, put environment you know on a You know, way down on the priorities list for issues, and that's that's surprising to me, but it's also indicative of, you know, where where natives are today, where we're living, where we're working, and you know who we surround ourselves with.
You know one thing i It's this discussion about the environment. One thing I am encouraged about, though, is it's within the last 10 years, right Standing Rock. Standing Rock, the resistance, and that was actually started by young people. It was not like these elders, or was not the tribal council of Sandy rock. It was the young people that that started that movement where 10s of 1000s of Native Americans, and I've seen it written, where from the Arctic circle all the way to the tip of South America, tribal nation, from North America, South America in between, came to Standing Rock. I was there and but that was the youth that led that movement. And I think that that's that's a point to be made, that even, even when it looks like we don't have leadership that cares about us, I think our youth will be monitoring what's going on across the country as well, and especially in Indian Country, protection of sacred sites as we talk about so I am encouraged by that. And I guess if there's anything that gives me hope, that gives me hope,
right? Yeah, stand rocks, interesting. Sorry, nearly, I just want to say one thing on that with Standing Rock and where we are in time that's will be the third president for administrations now, almost 10 years since Standing Rock,
right, right? And I think something that, I think that I have been telling everyone I talk to, I mean, I think a lot of people are worried about what's going to happen with a second Trump presidency. A lot of people are preparing for the worst, and I think there's nothing wrong with that, because it is important to be. Prepared for whatever happens, especially if you live in a deeper red state. But the thing is, is the things we work towards and the issues we are working to fix, our work doesn't end and it doesn't start with a new administration. Our work for to support tribal sovereignty, to support, you know, just indigenous rights in general, doesn't stop. As soon as there's a Democrat in the office, or if there's a Republican in the office, our work doesn't stop. And I think that is something we're going to be really having to focus on to stay, I guess, optimistic about our future, because it is really, really easy to become really dejected about, you know the outcome of the election? I know that, you know I had to take some time after finding out that, once again, this country elected Donald Trump, it is really hard, because you think, you know, the last four years we were making progress, we were going in the right direction. But again, our work doesn't doesn't stop, it won't stop. And I think that is something that we all have to remember. Well,
I was in Washington on election night, and I was at the Harris watch party, and I'll just kind of keep you create the scene. There were at least 500 members of the media there. I saw a correspondent from Israel being they were doing a live feed up to Israel from Howard University of Washington, DC. I saw something from Poland. There someone from the Dominican Republic. But then I also saw a group of black women, young black women, who were dressed very nicely, some in high heels with pearls around their necks, and I kept thinking as I watched them dance, and this is before the knowledge came through that Kamala Harris would not win, but they were celebrating. And I kept thinking that could have been Kamala Harris dancing a few years back, because that's where she went to, the university she went to Howard University. But the looks on one woman's face in particular, and it's kind of ingrained in my mind, of of what hope she seemed to have, and that's, that's word I want to embrace as we go forward into the next four years, is we have got to keep that hope alive. And I think that s borrow from Jesse Jackson, right, keep hope alive, but it's so true, we have got to keep hope alive for Native America. All those things we've just talked about, sacred sites, tribal sovereignty. And it's not always about the dollar, right? And I think we'll leave that for the tribal councils to decide, because they have to, obviously work on their tribal economies every single year, but when it comes to the core principles of who we are as Native people, the moral standards that we have, we have got to stay united. And to me, this administration can provide a opportunity to have a unified voice, and native news online wants to be part of that. I'm speaking as the publisher Now, part of that voice that can really keep the message of Native America going. And is it every day? Because we do publish every day at Native news online, so it's an ongoing thing, and it's not just a one time. Oh, it's time to get excited about the election. No, this is something we've dealt with time and time out again, in in all the things that matter to us, the missing and murdered women, indigenous women, relatives, people, whatever, whatever letter you put at the end of that, even my W phrase. But because that let's that statement alone lets you know it confronts all of us, regardless of our gender. But that's an issue that we have, the Indian boarding schools, the traumatic, the trauma, the historical trauma we all live with as a result of that, those are the issues to me, that are just so critical we keep pushing, pushing, pushing, and though we may have seemingly people who are very insensitive to us, we need to have, we need to have a united front, a united voice, and move forward to kind of embrace and really prop. Gate, promote, perpetuate the Native issues that are so important in Indian country, so that maybe there will be the sensitive people. Senator Thune, like I said, he's a bright spot in this, because unlike Mitch McConnell, who comes from a state of Kentucky that doesn't have one federally recognized tribe. We have now the majority leader in the next Congress who is going to come from a state there were nine federally recognized tribes, and he has a good track record working with those tribes. So that's the kind of hope we need to look at. We need to look at the hope that is out there, even in darkness, there's always a glimmer of hope. So, yeah, thanks, Levi. I
think what you're expressing is what we're looking to grab today with today's episode, which is opening the circle here, talking about where we're going to be understanding the facts that we've laid out. Dr Aaron payment is joining us. That's what we're having here. It's just a welcome. We're happy you're joining us. We're about 40 minutes into our conversation here. We started talking directly about to catch you up where we are. Our thoughts post election, the ideas of looking at President Elect Donald Trump's current appointments to his department and his administration, spent a little bit of time talking about North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum as his interior pick, as well as governor Kristen gnome in South Dakota, and then led to larger conversations about the Dakotas. That could be the place we're talking a lot about, but from there where you jumped into us, Levi, mentioning the work that we're going to have to do into the next several years exists, regardless of who's going to win. The space is there for us as Native people to continue to push for our issues, and how we figure that out is places like this. So that's catching you up to where we are. Do you have any thoughts? Do you want to take us there? Jump on anything. Welcome.
So it's interesting to see, you know, when Trump became president, last time he campaigned on, you know, shaking things up and breaking apart the federal bureaucracy. One of those appointments was Betsy DeVos to the Department of Ed she has long pushed to dismantle public education and to make vouchers for religious education, and they call it values education. In Michigan, my tribe does have a charter school, and we do much better than the public schools. So there's, you know, that's got an appeal to Indian tribes. But the one thing that was interesting in the first round was, even though he put an ideologue in in several positions last time, once they got in, they they got comfortable in the bureaucracy, and they didn't dismantle public education or much of the bureaucracy that was in place. And so however, this election cycle, we're seeing some pretty strange nominees. You know, Robert F Kennedy Jr, as HHS secretary. I served on the secretary travel advisory for HHS for about 10 years, both Republican and Democrat. And I don't know how this is going to work, just it's, it's, there's a lot of unknowns, because he's the antithesis of public health with these ideas that are not based in science. So so we'll see. And you know, some of the other appointments. The initial thing that we heard was he was thinking about Kristen gnome for a Department of Interior, which is interesting, because all nine tribes in South Dakota barred her from their reservation. But with the North Dakota governor, I think there's a chance there's four federally recognized tribes there. Some of them are very strong energy tribes. So So I think there is going to be a very strong push to return to some fossil fuel and try to dismantle some clean energy. You know, President Biden had the America, the beautiful 30 by 30 initiative. I was on the ad hoc advisory for that, so I'm a little nervous about but, you know, one of the quandaries is Elon Musk is an enigma. I don't understand what his role is or what he's going to be doing, but, you know, he's made his fortune off of electric cars, and we're going back into an era that kind of repudiates any need for transitioning. So, you know, and I'm trying to figure out the economics of all of that, because some of the subsidies that were made available for customers are not going to be they're going to be eliminated. So it seems like that would have a negative impact on Elon Musk, but so I guess when you're making billions and billions of dollars, a few billion here or there kind of doesn't matter, with the trade off for power. So it's really interesting to see. I do think that I'm nervous about Project 2025, and the project. And nominees who, I think their their purpose will be this time, to go in and to dismantle the very bureaucracies that they're being appointed to. So that's troublesome. And, you know, we'll see, once people get in those positions and they become in charge, maybe they'll become entrenched. Maybe, maybe it won't be as bad. But you know, we all have to be on alert, and we all have to be ready with our messaging to make you know our friends in Congress on both sides of the aisle, to try to defend if there's any big, sweeping proposals that could hurt Indian Country,
that's really helpful for us to you know, I don't think any of us have the crystal ball to really predict what's going to happen if anything we learned from the first Trump administration it was prepare for any everything to change every single day. And that's what his staffers has said. That's the people who work for him, the people who worked in his administration, even in the executive space. Um, US preparing for that gives us an idea. So thanks for giving us what you know about, what I guess, what I like to trend like, think about and what Levi was also hitting on here a moment earlier. We do know what is going to be happening with the Senate, and we can look as the mechanisms of government happening because government's going to happen. These appointments may become actual department heads. That's going to take time. One of their first stops will be the Senate, and we now know that South Dakota Senator Thune will be majority leader. Do you have any thoughts on what his what his role will be there for Indian
country?
So it's kind of an unknown for me at this point. I think Rick Scott would have been much more extreme. So I and I think that the his colleagues agreed with that, that that was Trump's selection, although he didn't weigh in, because I think he was keep keeping his powder dry. You know, that that is, you know, the the linchpin here is that the President proposes and Congress disposes, and we do have friends on both sides of the aisle. You know, it'll be interesting. You know, there was some talk about an appointment for Senator Mark Wayne Mullen to interior, although that didn't materialize. You know, I was thinking about that. Why would I choose, if I was a US senator, would I choose to take an appointment in an administration? I know the pay scales are, it's not more money. So it would be, I guess, the prestige or stepping stone. But a US senator seems like a pretty top stepping stone, right, like an appointment to an administrative position. So, so it sounds, it seems like Mark Wayne will stay where he's at, and he can be very strong where he's at. And, you know, well early on in his career, he had some missteps with land and trust and not completely understanding that process. He's come a long way, and he has supported advanced appropriations for Indian Health Service. I attended a couple listening sessions that he had for that in a bipartisan way. And so, you know, so our job is really going to be to do what we always do, and educate the legislature. You know, it's Indians, 101 again, and in capitalizing on our friends that are in Congress, you know, we do have a couple friends. Lisa Murkowski is a very strong advocate for Indian country with Alaska Natives, that's got a little bit of a different twist on it with the Alaska Native corporations. And Susan Collins has demonstrated herself not to be, you know, too detrimental, and has been kind of middle of the road. So you know, that's too off of the majority that you know. So you know, if we make, if we make sure that we're in contact with our friends, that includes the tribes that are that are not traditionally Democrat leaning or focused, and some energy tribes to make sure that we have a team effort. And you know, we might have to put aside some of our aspirations for clean energy for a period of time in order to protect our sovereignty. And that sounds horrible, but, you know, it's all about protecting our sovereignty at this point, yeah, that's
a lot of work ahead for all a lot of us, Indian 101, it keeps coming back to that where the work is still there. I mean, that's kind of been our entire existence. Is to remind people what we are in sovereignty. And I remind myself every day to spell it, just because that's a difficult word to spell at times, and I want to get it
right the first day. Yeah. Cuz some members of Congress say sovereignty, and it's like, okay, are we saying it wrong, or are they saying it wrong? I
think, I think that's how George W Bush said it as I recall. Yeah,
McCollum does it that way too.
That's a whole now. Now
we're going to have a pronunciation, a pronouncer discussion on sovereignty. I can't even say it the way you pronounce it. That's the first I've ever heard that you said George Bush said that. Levi, yes,
yeah, yeah. He's, uh, Mark. Mark Trahan asked him the question, and he said, what's his definition of travel, sovereignty. It's actually on YouTube. It's quite an interesting exchange, and kind of gave mark a lot of thrust. I guess it comes to native media, but yeah, he couldn't even pronounce it right? Well, I think more people
can pronounce it now, even Republicans,
yes, yes.
You know another thing is our last time we were together, we talked with Myron, a former vice president for Navajo, and so what's really going to tell a telltale is going to be in the first probably month or two of this administration. Under Biden Harris, we had a presidential memo extending the Consultation Policy, but also giving a 90 day deadline. So it was more substantive than the Biden, I mean, the Obama Biden presidential memo. So under Trump's first term, we didn't have anything. We there was no proclamation, there was no extension of it, which is good in a way, because he didn't extinguish it. So, but it'll be interesting to see if some of the native advisors that we're hearing that that advised them during the campaign, that that increased the, you know, proportion of natives that supported the Trump administration, and while it's not the 65% NBCs that's called ecological fallacy and statistics where you don't operationalize your study, right? And, you know, for us, self report versus a lot of people romanticize being Indian. So they just, my great, great, great grandmother was an Indian, so they checked the princess, yeah, and a princess too. So so it'll be interesting to see what these advisors, what kind of role they have, and will know out of the gate, because if they have any kind of influence, then they will have a role in helping to shape those executive orders and those presidential memos that extend our sovereignty and the government to government relations. That's why it has to be codified. You know, Congressman Grijalva, who got reelected, he's drafted up the respect Act, which has been not exactly what we need, but it is a step in the direction. So we'll we'll see. I don't expect legislation to support that right now, but, but again, the telltale for us to be watching is if his advisors have enough of effect that he supports and comes out publicly and supports sovereignty. So
you said 90 days of that after he takes office? No,
no. What happened was no, actually. So I worked on the president the proclamation or the Presidential memo with Libby Washburn and under Biden or no Obama, 60% of the federal agencies did not promulgate a consultation policy, and that's in the GAO report of 2018 I think, or 17 and and so we wanted to do something better this time, and that was to give a deadline. And so Biden put a 90 day deadline for all federal agencies, and we got inundated. I did 55 consultations with federal agencies in three months. And so that's all in place, but you know, whether or not there will be a directive to just shelf that or erase that, but it shouldn't be up to who's president. It should be, you know, legislative, it should be codified into law. Consultation, but, but for now, it is presidential memorandum, an extension of Clinton's 13 executive order. 13, 175, so again, we're watching to see if his advisors have an effect, and we'll know that Biden did his 90 day Presidential Memorandum extending consultation on the second day of his of his term. So we'll see. We'll see what happens on this under this term.
Hey, Sean, one thing I do want to talk about, and you were there in the room in Marlin. You were in the room at the Republican National Convention, where they had a Native American round table, and Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, at the very beginning of that round table, mentioned how he had been called down to mar a Lago back in March of this year. And then former President Trump said to him, Hey, we really didn't and Mark Wayne well, and just for the listeners, he is a citizen of the Cherokee nations. He's a US senator from Oklahoma, Republican, but he was called to mar a Lago, and he says Trump said, Hey, we really didn't do a good job with Indian country like in the administration. And he cited the departure of Secretary of the Interior, Zinke. And Zinke resigned under a cloud of investigations for corruption, and I want to say he resigned just before Trump was said to have was willing to fire him. So here was the former. President saying that they didn't feel like they did a good job with Indian country because Zinke left which, which two things have I'm taking from that, from what Senator Mullen said in July of this year, is one, Trump realizes they didn't do a good job with Indian country. And two, I think that he's put interior in a basket, whereas we do know that Bureau of Indian Affairs, Bureau of Indian Education, is there. BLM, the land management is under there. But at the same time, Indian Country touches so many branches of government, I mean departments within the federal government. It's better way of saying it departments and agencies. We already talked about that 18. So I guess I would hope that you know with with the announcement recently of Doug Burgum, the governor of North Dakota, becoming the who was nominated to become the Secretary of the Interior that they don't think of it only as Indian Country, only in being in that one silo of the Interior Department. I'd love to hear Aaron payments response to that, or comments about
that. Yeah. So you know that kind of ties into what I've been looking at with Project 2025 because ideologically, one thing that might have merit, but it all depends on how it shakes out and whether the funding follows right. Right now it's dismantled across several federal agencies. Our appropriations are across several, several committees of jurisdiction, Senate, Indian Affairs Committee, kind of is the one entity that pulls it all together. In the house, natural resources, it had a different name for the last couple of years, but the concept is to move Indian Affairs to the State Department. And so I know during the campaign, there was a lot of politicking and trying to say that would be left up to states. So that was just some, you know, people that didn't understand what the State Department is. The State Department is in charge of government to government relations between the federal government and international relations. And so when I, you know, years and years ago, when I did my Master's in Public Administration, I studied the governmental structures. And, you know, try to identify the ideal structure to carry forward. And you know, positively impact federal Indian policy. When I was coming out of grad school, I was all eager and optimistic for that and and so there's some merit in the idea, you know, when, when the Constitution was written, article on Section Eight, paragraph three, is written that equates us with this among the several foreign nations, among the several States and Indian tribes and and that was drafted by Thomas Jefferson. So, you know, we have our negatives with Thomas Jefferson too. But you know, he conceived of and included us in that language and in you know, when our when we first became a country, we were kind of a loose Federation. You had states that weren't quite unified, like they Well, like they are now on the ideal. And so the idea of, and he was also our first Secretary of State, and so there's some merit to that. And if but the critical issue, though, is whether the funding that has been eked out over the years, that's segmented across different federal agencies, whether that will follow and will go, or if Indian affairs under the State Department is just for Government Relations, but the funding continues under the committees of jurisdiction. Over the years, when Ronald Reagan became president, he pushed for a new federalism, which was the beginning of dismantling like a federal sort of structure and having states be strong states in deference to states. So that's what you know. Abortion now is relegated to state decision making, you know, and for us and for people of color, also minority people as well, having the states decide is not necessarily a good thing. Federal protections under civil rights and voting rights have been our protection, but so if so under Reagan's concept, the way we were able to survive is because the funding was fractionated across several agencies, with senators and representatives, with committees of jurisdiction and with their little, you know, their little ego or their big egos and their little structures that they could control. They held tightly to that. And the federal bureaucracy also is a protection against dismantling, you know, Indian Affairs. So this notion that Elon Musk and who else did he asked, Oh, that vivid Swami or whatever is, I'm sorry if I said it wrong. Yeah, their government, you know, reform and streamlining government. You know, I'm hoping that they have some notion of. Affecting sovereignty, because what we have is not welfare. It's not minority based on being minorities. It's not even based on the atrocities. You know, it's not reparations at all. What we get is because we sign treaties into law that promise Health, Education and Social Welfare into perpetuity, and we exchanged over 2 billion acres of land. So I'm hoping they have that sensitivity, that understanding. You know, I'm all for government efficiency, but we don't even come close to getting what we're entitled to, what we prepaid right now and based on our need. So there isn't any efficiencies to be had in our funding. There might be in terms of permitting, and I shared that last time when we talked with President Trump, and I took like I said, it went right over his head. You know, we don't need to have a federal agency, you know, it's, it's that paternalism, you know, the great white father and we were considered children. We don't need the federal government to have a federal agency tell us what we can and permit and not permit. Oh, we lost them
at the great white father, that might be that might be it. That might be the cut. But he's right. I mean, the permitting element is the opportunity that even lizer spoke about, if Aaron gets back to us or can hear us. It's my understanding of this. And Levi, this is how we understand how Liza and this is the way to pitch to Donald Trump cut out regulations that inhibit and prohibit businesses on tribal lands. There are barriers in place that's not wait, oh, you're back. All right,
white father, we want to hear what you have say. Well,
yeah, I was just saying that paternalism that, you know, when we were considered, you know, less than human, and that we needed to be taken care of and, you know, and the great white father having these federal protections, you know. And on one hand, it's good to have those federal protections, our lens and trust, and it can't just be taken away. But on the other hand, you know, we are governments. We're mature governments now, we don't need that level of oversight and protection. You know, states don't have that. You know, they can promulgate their laws at the state level. And I think we could do the same. We could establish our own tribal EPA, our own permitting processes. And, you know, that's low hanging fruit for downsizing the federal government and, you know, autonomizing tribal governments and state governments, as long as we don't ever become secondary or subordinate to state governments.
That wraps up our show. Thank you listeners for tuning into this episode of the native vote native voice podcast. The native vote native voice podcast is produced by native news online with funding support from the MacArthur Foundation, the National Congress of American Indians and four directions. Thank you for tuning in until next time you.