In A Pickle? How to Master Love on the Court with Stormy Hill & Teri Citterman

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What happens when the fastest-growing sport in America becomes a relationship pressure cooker?

Dr. Stormy Hill and Teri Citterman sit down with me and chat about their new book,
In A Pickle: How to master Love and Pickleball and Not Kill each other

We dive deep into topics such as... 

• Why pickleball is uniquely challenging for couples,     
• How the sport can enhance communication both on and off the court
• What did we do before pickleball took over our lives?
• Kitchen Knife Moments": When pickleball threatens relationships
• The power of intention-setting before matches

When you spend an inordinate amount of time living your addiction to Pickleball and playing with the person you are sleeping with, there are bound to be big highs and even bigger lows. 

So based on their experience as players, they wrote this book for pickleball-playing couples who love the idea of playing together but don't love what happens when eye rolls and irritation take over the court.

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Dr. Stormy Hill

Dr. Stormy Hill,  is the owner of two occupational therapy businesses helping special education students and adults with mental health challenges. She is a pioneer in the development of sensory rooms in rehab facilities. Stormy had worked for over 14 years as a mental health occupational therapist and is also a certified intimacy coach, founder ofLove Deep Lab, and a national speaker on relationships and wellness.

She has been featured in the NY Post and Thrive Business Magazine For Women, and was elected as one of the Women to Watch in Utah Business Magazine in 2014. She also was a celebrity authority and #1 Amazon best-selling author in The Transformational Journey - Stories on Business, Life and Happiness. 

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Transcript

 I'm joined today by two amazing women. Amazing, partly because they both play pickleball, but also because they've written this intriguing book called In a Pickle, How to Master Love and Pickleball and Not Kill Each Other.

So Dr. Stormy Hill is a co author of The Transformational Journey, Stories on Business, Life, and Happiness, and a certified relationship coach. She lives in Salt Lake City, where you can ski some of the best peaks and play pickleball all in the same day. Teri Sitterman is the author of From the CEO's Perspective, and a certified executive coach advising senior leaders and CEOs.

She's from Seattle, the birthplace of pickleball, and lives in Austin, Texas, which is home to some of the top pro pickleball players in the world. They are both co authors of the book, In a Pickle, How to Master Love and Pickleball and Not Kill Each Other. So welcome to you both, Terri and Stormy. Thank you.

Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you for joining me today. I'm really excited. I think this is actually the first book on sports and relationships. And as far as I'm aware, I think this is the first podcast that I've found that's on love relationships and pickleball too. Yes. So that's exciting. . I've been talking to our listeners about my journey to Pickleball, and I wondered if you would, first of all, perhaps just let us know how did you first discover Pickleball, and what made you decide to play together as a couple, the two of you?



Well, we're not a couple.   But people confuse us as being a couple, so I'm just clarifying. some point, we might become a couple, you know.  Never say never. Exactly.  , how did my journey start on the pickleball court?

So we, we are from Seattle, birthplace of pickleball. We never saw a court. We never heard a ball bounce. We never had pickleball was not a thing. And we come to Austin three years ago and we started playing, Anyway. Austin's the capital. I think it was actually deemed the capital recently.

Isn't that right? The capital of pickleball. So there are courts everywhere. There are players everywhere. There are there's energy everywhere. So my husband and I, Raj picked up paddles and started playing and never looked back. It's been a journey. There's been really good times and very low times, and we'll get to that, I'm sure, but that's how my journey started, and then Stormy will tell you about, about how we met.

Yeah, so, similar, I started playing January two years ago and I, I mean, we always laugh, I'm like, what did I do before this? Sport took over my life. What did we do for fun? Like who did we hang out with? So we, my boyfriend, I joke about that. That my, you know, I always like, I came from tennis. I was a tennis player.

It was like my big sport in my life. And when my boyfriend asked me two years ago to, he's like, come play pickleball. I think you'll like it. And he'd only played a few times. And I said, I literally said, I'm too young. I'm a tennis player. I'm not playing pickleball. And then I was like, all right, get over myself.

I'm going to go try it. I'm afraid of trying anything. And I, Louie literally got pickled by a gentleman who was probably pushing 80. And I'm like, what is this sport? Like I was so, I had two, like actually had two knee braces on really real story. And I just was so intrigued by like,  What is the sport, which really felt like for me, the first time I played, it felt like a, a mix between tennis, ping pong and chess, just because of the strategy, which of course I had no idea even how to keep score or anything or how to score or how to play or anything, but it just really I fell in love with it.

And now I, you know, like it's, it's really like a way of life and such a joy for, for us, for my partner and I, like Teri said, not all the time, we have our good days in the courts and our bad days in the courts relationally and also. You know, strategically. But that's how I started playing was my boyfriend asked me to try it.

And that was two years ago. And then Teri and I met probably around then on the pickleball court in Costa Rica. I was just drawn to her and her energy and her amazing curls and hair and spunk and everything. And she's a good pickleball player. And I'm like, well, I want to know this woman. And so we met and then our partners met and we hit, we blew out.

We'd love to play mixed doubles. together against each other and then also just really good friends and that was how we met was two years ago on the pickleball court  

love that that that's so funny i mean i'm always I'm so fascinated by people's journey to pickleball and stormy.

I think the same words came out of my mouth. I have, I said the same thing when my husband said, let's play pickleball. And I said, I'm not old enough. I'm too young. I love tennis. There's no way you're getting me out. Yeah. And same thing, like, isn't it incredible? You go and play against somebody, you know, and you size them up and you think, Oh, I've got this.

Oh yeah. And you are so humbled. Oh, humbled in the best way. And now I look at that tennis court and I'm like, that thing is ginormous.   And I know there's always lots of laughs in Pickleball, and I, I hope I don't put you on the spot, but I wonder if perhaps you could share a humorous story from your Pickleball experiences,

I got to think 

about that. Although I will say Raj, he'll go and he plays with a bunch of guys and he almost broke a rib. He was laughing so hard. Like he laughs so hard on the, on the court. If only it was the same when we play.

 I could go, okay. So it is actually in the book, but it's, it's definitely what kind of. really gave me the impetus to say, Hey, we need this book needs to be written. We need to be the ones to write it. We were playing at a, a tournament a PPA tournament. We were playing in the amateur, obviously down in Southern Utah and My boyfriend, it was match point.

It was the game point. And he, it was a dropped my, like they, they dropped it right over, right over the net to my right side. And I, I had a hip replacement, but my hip was injured at the time. And so that was the shot, which they knew that I couldn't get to. And he literally, as we're going up, I'm running up.

He goes, you must do something with this ball. And. I literally, like, just, you know, grip the paddle super tight, of course, popped it right into the net or popped it up, I can't remember, but turned around and said, don't ever do that again. Like it, you know, it was right. It was match point. And I said, do you think I didn't know I needed to do something with that ball?

And he, and the couple we were playing were like friends of ours. And they were like, Oh, trouble. That was not the thing to say to you guys. Well, what I meant was go baby go. And I said, that is not what you said. So, so in the book, it's about, we talk about saying what you mean and using your words like correctly.

But cause you know, obviously it's a, we, we laugh about it now, but I was not laughing about it. That's, that's a funny story. Now it was not a funny story at the moment. 

I love that.  I love that his intention was go baby go, but that's not what came out. 

Yeah. I love that. 

One of my best moments on the pickleball court was not with Raj, but it was, Was with my girlfriend, a girlfriend of mine who said we almost had a kitchen knife moment last night, she and her husband.

And what she meant was I almost grabbed a knife and killed my husband. And I was like, Oh my God, kitchen knife moments. That's a pickleball thing. We got to do something with that. And so that's, like, I started on this journey of doing a podcast called Kitchen Knife Moments, and at some point we still may do that.

But Kitchen Knife Moments really became kind of the, a foundational piece of our book, well before there was ever going to be a book. True. And, but I, I just cherished that moment. I did, I did laugh. I mean, I laughed hard because who doesn't want to grab a paddle or a knife and stab people? The person you're playing with sometimes , sometimes.

There are points, definitely. There are moments for sure. You know? Yeah. And I think that's one of the things you just said, Charlotte. I love that like the, you know, there's a lot of laughter to pickle a ball and I think, well, I don't think I know that Teri and I were experiencing ourselves in our, in our love partnerships on the court, seeing friends experience, seeing couples like that we were playing against in tournaments against experiences.

The loss of that, right? The, the lack of that, where it turns into, you know, eye rolls and, and tension and, I mean, or full out fighting and impacts your relationship poorly off the court. And really like we, and we say it multiple and multiple different ways in the book. It's like, let's keep the laughter and the joy and the playfulness.

The thing we were all originally drawn to in this sport that we all love and not lose that. And be able to play with our love partner because, you know, there's rows of couples flocking to the courts because it's the fastest growing sport in the U. S. Multiple years in a row. It's not going anywhere.

It's you know, it's just gaining momentum. And so couples want to play together and just to really struggle with it. And we really struggle with it. I mean, we all we both considered him. What we call pickleball divorce, you know, which is just deciding not to play together. And that really like really broke our hearts.

And we were both like, come on, we're executive coaching and a coach. Like we gotta be able to do this, apply our professional skills to the court and help ourselves, help our relationships and help others.

 I love that. I, yeah, and I wondered what the inspiration for the book was,  you've mentioned a couple of things that made you think, oh, this needs to be a book I, I sort of almost imagined, you know, was it a few sharp words, or, , a particular look or perhaps the slam of a car door, 

it was way more than that. It truly was. , what happens is  when you start out at the same level, no one's ever played pickleball, even if they've been tennis players, you know, you're learning the game, you're learning the rules, you're learning  and that's when it's fun. It's really fun.

But once competition starts to seep in and your competitiveness starts to become a factor, that's when it gets, you know, it can derail pretty easily. And that's what happened to us. My husband is an, is a champion tennis player. I'm not, and probably will never be, but probably is not even a word. I'm never going to be.

And playing pickleball together became very difficult. It became, I mean, let's be honest. He just turned into a dick on the court and which he is not in real life. And I'm like, who are you? Like, what is going on? And that's in  the book, right? Don't read the book. Yeah. This is a real story. Because I was like, ,  we had to consider a pickleball divorce.

Well, we did have a pickleball divorce, but it was the first time in my life. I'm like, do I even like you? Do I even want to be married to you? Like, I've never thought that.  But we brought in our throuple, our, our friend, Jed, who played with me and played with him doubles. And that kind of helped.

  We, we found our way back to playing together. Although we do not play high stakes tournaments. . I love that term, the throuple. , almost like, , a marriage guidance counselor in a way, , this third person, perhaps. Is that what it was like a little bit for you?

No, it's more like bringing in a threesome into your marriage. Let's just be honest.

Oh, I love that. Who knew? Who knew we were going to bring BDSM words into the book?   What do you think it is about pickleball , that mirrors relationship dynamics so well? And I'm just sort of curious. Ever since I started playing pickleball, why specifically pickleball? And why not any other sport?

I don't think we're seeing that in other sports as much as we are now in pickleball. Yeah, I think that there's a , lots of couple, because there's a low barrier to entry to like starting to play pickleball. Like Teri was saying, if you're not a tennis player, you're not going to go out and play with your significant other, you know, the person you're dating or married to.

Because, you know, you're just not, I mean, there's, there's too high of a barrier, like a an entry point, but for pickleball, that's really low. And so people are just trying to play together. They want something to do together. It's meant to be fun and it is until it isn't. And so, you know, I think there's that, that just so many couples are playing together and you, hopefully you can play through your whole life together, you know, into your eighties and beyond, that's my intention.

And then I think there's a, you know, we say in the book  that you're playing on the pickleball court with your lover is a powerful microcosm of your relationship. So not a mirror but a microcosm because both Teri and I,  and , her husband and me and my partner, we have really great relationships.

And then it just started to fall apart on the pickleball court as we got better. And as we like started doing tournaments and things like that. And so I think it's a really beautiful, and Teri says in the book that it's a, it's a. Literally  a communication workshop, the playing with your partner is a communication workshop, but that was kind of our, our heart of the book is that it actually can make your relationship better, stronger.

So you can love more and win more points. Absolutely. And I think, you know, Neil and I, My husband, we would definitely agree with that, , and I've talked about this   on this podcast previously as well that, you know, we, we've been together for, for 30 years now, and, and thought that we had pretty good communication and then got on the court and discovered that actually it was bringing up a whole lot of stuff for us that we can translate back.

Into our relationship, into our home life. So . I love that you say that, you know, whether you're coming at it. Because you're coming from a good relationship and all of a sudden you're discovering new things about your partner, or perhaps there's some sort of troubles there, there are some issues you're aware of, but definitely playing pickleball together brings that to the forefront, doesn't it?

 We say it'll definitely enhance your relationship, but it will not save your marriage. If you're in trouble, it ain't gonna help you. Definitely not. It's like having, you know, deciding to have a baby to, like, save your marriage, like, probably not the best, 

   📍 you know, and I love what you're doing with those podcasts too, because of this, right? Like, because of the relational impact for pickleball that pickleball is having on relationships for better, for worse and everything in between and bringing to light that, you know, and that was really, I mean, our intention was to be helpful, relatable and irreverent, right.

 We have a lot of laughter, you know, in the book, but  it's a relationship book that happens to take place on the pickleball court. I mean, that's really what it is. Did you perhaps discover anything surprising about your own relationships while you were researching or writing the book?

Yeah, for sure. Go ahead, Tara. Well, I was gonna say we discovered some surprising things about our relationship being co authors which was interesting because  I have not co authored a book.

And so it was really interesting navigating the the writing process and, and realizing, I think the best part when we were working together Stormy said, I knew you were direct going into this, but But perhaps you didn't know how relentless I am. And I was like, you know, it's a strength and it's really challenging.

  Not the first time I've heard that , I would say Raj in reading the book, realize the impact that he has on people,  by people. I mean, me I don't think he realized how harsh. He can be, he because he's tried to soften things. It, it really helped him develop self awareness.

Our first rule  probably both of our favorite chapter in the book is the first chapter, which is the rules of pickleball, which is the first rule of pickleball is don't be a dick. And the second rule of pickleball is don't be a dick. , I'm speaking on behalf of Stormy, but we dedicate that to Steve and Raj.

They say that they're the villains of the book, but they joke about that, but they're not. I mean, I think Teri's point that it really was helpful for them and it was helpful for us.    I think, you know, going back to that,  when Neil, my husband is encouraging, he thinks he's being encouraging, his intention is one thing, but it comes across , as something.

challenging for me, or perhaps I feel a little berated by it or, you know, and my defenses go up. So yeah, I, I love that both  your husband, your partner were able to, to gain something from you writing this book as well. Maybe we should all be writing books to our, significant others. Maybe, but Charlotte, that, you know, , how you just described your.

How you feel on the court. That's how most, I'm going to say women or partners, but women feel on the court when they're playing with their husbands. And that we don't want that to happen because more often than not I hear, Oh, I don't play with my husband anymore. And, and we wrote this book sort of as a guide.

We want women to play and we want women to To be feeling good about playing with their significant others. , that's that's why we did it. I love that.  That's so important. Can you perhaps share a practical tip for improving communication and play during a game? Mm hmm. , the book has lots of different like strategies, tools, and then practices within those strategies. Obviously, there's communication, there's feedback, there is, you know, strategic strategies, there's, you know, vibing together having like, how do you play together? What's the energy together? So I think one thing that just Popped in for me, right?

That, you know, it was really beautiful part of co authoring book. That was so cool as it wasn't just coming from my mind. It was also coming from Teri's mind and from her husband's mind and from my partner's mind. It was really like a collective kind of IQ thing. And so, you know, Teri would bring something that she wanted to put in the book and I'd be like, I want to try that.

And so we would try it. My partner and I would try it. And  it was really powerful. So when she had the idea of bringing, putting intention, setting an intention and the book, I was like, Steve, my boyfriend, I was like, Steve, let's try it. What's your intention for the day. And so he said, told me his intention.

I told him mine. We set one together. And , it was a great thing that I got to experience lifetime, you know, as we were practicing it to say, this really works. Like there's, there's a reason people are really into intention setting. And I do it with my clients. I had never done it on the pickleball court.

And it was really great. It let, it lets it let me know where he was, what his desire was for the, for the day, for the match play. And, and same for him with me. And, and so that was just one, that's one strategy that I think is just. You know, I found to be really really helpful and really light and playful.

And we do it a lot. I would say we do it more times than not just driving over there right before we hop on the court to say, Hey, what's your intention? And it might be a shot you're working on, but it also might just be an energy, like a vibe of like, Hey, you know what? I'm just out here to have fun today or versus I'm out here to like crush every ball that I can, you know?

Those are different.  My favorite strategy. I know Stormy knows what I'm going to say, is to have a safe word going back to the BDSM theme is, yeah, so have a safe word. So ours is pumpernickel, and when that word is said, everything stops, not another, this is the idea behind that, the safe word. No one says another word.

The whatever's happening stops, you go to your corner, I go to my corner and we just reset. I think it's really valuable in pickleball and in life.  So that's my favorite strategy. But the one I think is really one of the most important ones is to remind each other to communicate on the court.

Call the ball, And  we just make these assumptions, I'll just make the assumption that he's going to get it because he normally gets it, but he doesn't get he didn't get it so this lately this has been my thing like can you just communicate on the court. So, so we know what's going on, and that's  the title of that chapter is no one thinks they're a bad communicator, right?

Because no one says, especially relationally, no one's like, I'm going to communicate poorly with my partner, right? They just, we just don't teach it. We don't, it's not practiced until it is, right? So, okay. I love that example because asking for communication is, is a communication, right? Saying like, let's communicate more, right?

I mean, and there's lots of, there's lots of videos out there about how you should be calling every ball and it can be kind of annoying too, but it's also so helpful. It can feel annoying because it's new to say yours, yours, mine, mine. Right. But it's great. It's a great try. And then you take that off the court and you have a little bit of better communication, which who doesn't need that?

 I love that because yes, and definitely Neil and I have that playing on the court as well is, is communicating and it's the, , yours, mine, you know, also when we were playing outside, we started to really gauge where the wind was and which direction we started communicating that too. So I love that idea of really having a conversation with your partner, you know, short words or whatever that is.

And keep checking in, right? . And then taking that off the court into home life as well, because I think sometimes we make assumptions and forget to check in with each other. Absolutely. And I, and I think, you know, that's one of the most amazing, challenging and beautiful things about playing with your love partner is we do make assumptions all the time.

We're making assumptions, but we tend to make a lot of assumptions with our love partner. And this way we kind of, we'd take that assumption, right? Assumption means Ass out of you and me, right? It's right in the word assumption, right? Like not to make assumptions. And so we take that off the table by communicating.

And I think also the assumption or the opposite of the assumption, which is give people the benefit of the doubt. And, and that's another one where I think it's important to remind each other, you know, I, I wasn't clearly, I wasn't meaning to hit the ball into the net. So clearly this is not a coachable moment.

I don't need it. It's not the right time. You know, but just, Reminding each other, benefit of the doubt, benefit of the doubt. Yeah, totally. . Just , coming with a bit of compassion and a bit of gentleness and . And , competitiveness, takes that out of the game. Yeah, exactly.

And it's a thing we hear a lot from couples. We both experienced it ourselves, Teri and I, where our partner, Is way nicer when he's playing with another woman besides me, you know, and, and that was so frustrating for me. We talked a lot about it. It's in the book, right? Because it, and part of that, we were talking to our pro and down in Costa Rica, who represents Costa Rica in the world cup.

And she, she's amazing. And she was like, yeah, we have higher expectations of our love partners. So we don't often, sometimes we don't. Extended them the grace that we do to other people. And I was like, well, isn't that interesting?  we've definitely found that. And I know you talk about eye rolling, but that was a conversation I had with Neil as well.

 I noticed that his other female partners did not get the same looks that I got. Raj is actually very consistent, no matter who he's playing in our relationship, on and off the court, that actually humor is a great 

Reset.

 for us, especially during a game.

Would you say that humor has played a role in navigating your own challenges,  on and off the court? You know, that's a good question. So my partner is very funny. I'm not, I mean, I like to laugh, but I'm not particularly funny. We don't laugh a lot on the court. We're like, we're, we did a lot more when we were, Not as good.

I'm thinking that as we got better, we don't laugh a lot in the court, but what we do is express like our love language, which we actually have a chapter in the book on that, like applying your love language to the pickleball court. So both of ours is physical touch. My love language is physical touch.

His love language is physical touch. So like we were playing yesterday together and he'd been playing separately, playing on the challenge court. And then I was like, Hey, I want, we're playing in a tournament coming up, mixed doubles. I was like, let's play a bit together. We can do challenge court or just do open play.

And I was like, and today I just like want it to be fun. Let's just commit to having it be fun. So we were like making jokes and, you know, paddle booping and like, you know, chest bumping. If we had like a, you know, be being funny. In our love language and it was so enjoyable. Both of us actually texted each other afterwards and were like, That was really fun.

And I said, yeah, I need, we needed that. We needed it just to be fun. . Almost being kid like again. Being like a child and playing.  Yeah. I wouldn't say humor is something we use on the court. And a lot of the time it is not fun. In the definition of fun. But what, what the book has given us is some code words.

Yeah. Yeah. And so rather than getting pissed off, I can say. What's the first rule of pickleball and he'll know exactly what I mean. Yeah, that's true. Or we'll joke like the other day, we were not vibing on the court very well. And I go, looks like we both need to reread the book. And he was like, probably we do, you know, and that was both of us, but we laughed about that, you know, rather than being like, what's wrong with you?

 Resets.  It just, it takes the energy out of it. the moment.  Yeah, Teri, I love the idea of the safe words. I think that's something you know, we can start to do.  We've been using, , like the paddle touches or we you know, we like the physical touch as well just , touching each other on on the shoulder.

We use nicknames as well. So we have nicknames. So ,  when Neil uses mine, then immediately I'm like Yeah, he's connected with me again. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I think these little things like the safe words, it's so important , whether you're playing pickleball or you're trying, I don't know, you have a challenge at home.

Totally. . Yep, exactly. I like that. Yeah. I like, I like the nickname too. I'm like, and now I'm like, Ooh, what would our nicknames be?  Nickname for me is crazy. 

  Do you have a favorite anecdote from the book that perfectly defines the book's message? Hmm,  that's a great question. Chapter Go ahead, Tara. That's chapter one. Yeah. I mean, it really is. We, you know, chapter one, first rule of pickleball, don't be a dick. Second rule of pickleball, don't be a dick.

That's why we wrote the book. We were having the experience. We saw other people having the experience. And I mean, it's that simple. In my mind. Yeah, no, that's it's a good one. And by the way, like we say in the book, this is a genderless term because I have days where I'm the dick, you know, we're like, I just maybe I had a run in.

This is this thing to like, it pickleball really becomes a massive part of our life, right? For anyone watching and listening, like it likely you are fully in the allegiance that into welcome to the Alliance, . And so  what happens in life goes out of the pickleball court.

What happens in the pickleball court can go into your life. And we want that to be in the positive direction, right? We want that not to like hurt your relationship. And so I think the message for me, that's probably the rule that is woven throughout the book is that you can use it pickleball as a way to improve your relationship.

And at the same time, Play better pickleball. Right. So that's why the means really is win to love more and win more points, right? It was even and it's in that order. , I was just signing a couple books To people who don't yet play but   they've got the paddles They're ready to go and I said your life is about to change  for the good Yeah, like I really mean that  We want the entire world to play pickleball.

I mean, just imagine how, how, how things could be, how healthy we would all be socially, you know, if we would all be, how we would be learning more about ourselves and the people that we play.  Yes. I joined your vision on that.  Ambassadors. That's right. Well, for life, right.

Well, I mean, I'm sure there's going to be interesting studies that come out back right. The I, the hand, eye coordination and the novelty and the motor coordination that it's so helpful for, you know, to help with minimizing effects of dementia and things like that to help keep us cognitively sharp.

It's so great on so many levels. And  when we wrote the book, we just had lists and lists and lists of benefits. And we kind of, whoa, we, we leave the benefits throughout because there's so many of them. Right. But they, I mean, there really are, , you pick an area, physical, you pick an area, emotional, leisure, play, you know, joy practices, pickleball touches.

So many of these areas, as far as being of benefit.  And I think I just read Dan Buechner, who had researched and written about the blue zones around the world, just heard him the other day say that pickleball adds an additional four years to your life. Cool. And I may have got that number.

Don't quote me on the number, but I believe, yeah, that's more than tennis. Because of the, the social aspect of it. Totally.  Well now, so if we're playing pickleball in one of the blue zones in Costa Rica, we should be double whammy.   And I love what you said, Teri, about you, you were doing a book signing and there were people there that.

are ready to play. They haven't played yet. They have their paddles or perhaps, you know, I know there are people that are thinking about pickleball and they're just not sure whether this is something they want to dip their toe into. So for couples who are just starting out or thinking about it, what nuggets of wisdom would you give to make sure that they're set up for success in the sport as well as in their love relationship.

  Do you know what I'm going to say? What am I going to say? Read the book. Well, I would say that and I'd say read it out loud.  So Raj and I are, we love teaching new people how to play. We love it. And, and it's really just have fun, lower your expectations, have fun. And you know, and usually the guy comes out thinking he's going to be great.

And it's like, you're not great. Have fun. Yep. I agree.  , even the name pickleball, it just makes me like giggle, like inside. It's just delightful. You know? I mean, I remember when I first heard it, I was like pickleball and now I'm like pickleball, you know, it's just a, so, I mean, it makes me laugh.

It makes me giggle. And then when we say that multiple times, but there's so few well we, we as adults in the, in Western culture, don't, we don't have a lot of great. Joy and laughter practices and pickleball can be both as well as so many other things like we already touched on. So I, I agree with Teri, like, keep it, we, you know, we say, keep it light.

Like remember why you , fell in love with the sport in the first place. And if you haven't started playing and you want to play, the book gives you some great strategies, but just, you know, keep it light. Remember that this is meant to be fun. So  read the book that that's great advice.

  I think there are exercises in the book.  I'm just wondering, perhaps, and I don't want to give too much of the book away, but is there perhaps a specific conflict that you've had on the court. And if you could  explain briefly how you work through that together and perhaps one of the exercises in the book you could share with us.

Yeah, I can say we have an emotional intelligence quiz that we created  in the book,  So my partner is much better at the strategy. That's my, I'm working on, but he just sees the court is more like a, you know, kind of chess player mind. He sees the court. He's thinking one, if not two shots ahead maybe one shot ahead.

Right. So I'm a little behind him on the, the IQ, pickleball IQ, but I'm way ahead of him on the pickleball EQ. And so when we took the quiz, it was very funny. We both took the quiz.  But we know that, right? So I'm going to be more emotionally like generous and intelligent with him.

Then he is with me, but he is going to be able to like, be like, okay, we're going to third shot, drop it. And you're going to poach it. Right. So we can kind of combine the IQ and EQ and both are important. We say in the book, if you have to pick one, like if one, More relationally more important, it's going to be EQ, but you can kind of, you know, we know that about each other.

And so it's just, you know, the quiz gave us a quantifiable thing that we already knew.   So feedback and mindset to me is a really big one. Raj is one of the best players I know. And in addition, including amongst coaches and pros that I know, he's really good.

And so I have the benefit of getting better if I take his feedback. Now it takes me a lot to take his feedback. I have to be in the right mindset and that is not always what I'm in. But in those times where, you know, I really want to improve and he's going to be able to help me if I'm open to his feedback.

And so you know, that's something that I really try to be not all the time, not every game, but when I'm feeling like, you know, I've hit some kind of a spot and I want to get better or, or I just want to get better. And he's going to be able to see what I'm not doing. And, you know, there's a lot of value in what he has to say.

It's my choice to listen or not.  And sometimes, like you say, we're more open to receiving that than other times. And I think it's important for us to, to express that to our partners too. This is not a good time. I'm not a good time. Use your safe word tells your partner that you are not open to feedback right now, you know, and yeah, just to piggyback on that, like my partner and I will, and it's a great strategy I use with my couples when I'm coaching too, is you can ask the other person if they're open for feedback.

It's a great strategy to say like, hey, I'm seeing a pattern like are you open to like me sharing what I'm seeing with you, maybe not on the court that might not be the time for like a conversation on the court might be like on the drive home, you know, or over a glass of wine later or whatever to be like hey you know I've noticed this like pattern on the court that I'm seeing, maybe you're seeing it too but are you open to my feed like are you open to my input.

It's a great thing. It's really, and it also, for me, if, if he says that to me, I, it disarms me to be like, okay, am I open to it? Yes. And then actually listen, because to Teri's point, he often, our partner can see a pattern that we can't see. . I mean, I did it on the court the other day with a guy that I was playing with.

I said, Hey, I'm seeing something. Do you want my insight? He's like, yeah. I said, Hey, you're swinging, you're swinging at the net and that's why it's going out. And he was like,  totally. It's, you know, asking for permission to give someone some feedback is a really powerful strategy. Well, and Teri, you bring up another good point there.  That sometimes,  your partner is not at the same level as you.

Sometimes your partner is, you know, it's great in the beginning because you learn to play together and you're at that same kind of level. But there are some love partners who are playing where one is perhaps a 4. 0 and the other is closer to a 3. 0 and that really takes some navigating on the court.

Yeah, in fact, where I play, I often hear that from the men is you know, when I play with my wife, we're just playing because, you know, she's not that good. And I play to her level and, you know, and I think it doesn't have to be that way. It truly doesn't. I mean, it can be, if that's fun, that doesn't sound like fun to me, but it's one strategy.

The other strategy is play together, learn together, and get her up together. I mean, bring her up to the level you're in. Totally.  To piggyback on that, Teri, , the book is written for anyone who wants to play pickleball with their love partner and, but really kind of like our muse are women that are like wanting to play and get better and have like a bit of a competitive, you know.

We all do. Everyone has a little bit, but like they want to like nourish that because we want more women to be playing this sport and to be feeling like you can play and play competitively and play well with your partner if you choose to. And so I think that's, you know, is, is, is something that we are passionate about.

, it's one of the few sports where mixed is just as popular as same gender. , I have talked about this before it's coming onto the pickleball court already with self doubt and fears about my ability. to, you know, perform.

And I, I think,  it's very important for women to feel empowered and,  we're very good at putting ourselves down and we're very good at saying, well, I'm never going to get to that level and being apologetic and, I don't think that needs to be the case. I think, yes, with the right encouragement and instruction and strategy and compassion, I think, yeah, we can definitely raise our game.

Totally. And look at the women, like the pros, I mean, I don't know, I'm going to speak for my partner and I prefer to watch the women pros play. Like, I mean, it's just, it's really incredible to see And there was an article I read that I think Paddle Tech put it out, but how similar like in speed and agility and athleticism, men's doubles is to women's doubles, right?

And mixed as well, , , like pickleball is a rare, I believe is a rare opportunity for women to like, right? Rise just as quickly and brilliantly as men in the sport. Yeah. It's an equalizer. It's an absolute equalizer. And I also think, you know, as you were talking, Charlotte, I was thinking at the end of the day, it's pickleball, you know, it's fun.

It's about holding a paddle and a cocktail at the same time. Right. If we're wrapping our heads around this, We got to get perspective. . And I love that because that's how the game started, right? In Seattle with that pickleball paddle and the cocktail. And I love that your forward is written by is it the, the son of,  Bill, the, , , one of the inventors, Joel Bell , wrote it.

And Yeah,  I get to see him in real life next week when I'm in Seattle. Oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. , we touched a little bit on on the social aspect of the game. And I mean, Neil and I have found incredible social connections. And I say at our age, and I don't mean that because oh my gosh, you know, we're in our midlife or we're old, but I think a lot of couples get to this point in their lives where the children have grown up, they're adults, they have their own friends.

It's harder for us to meet new people, make new friends, and pickleball is just amazing for that. Why do you think pickleball is such a social game?

Well, the size of the court makes it pretty intimate. I'd say that starting there. Again, you know, the idea was to have fun. The idea was, it started out as a social game,  it's become really competitive and really fun to watch and fun to play.  One thing I'll say is Raj and I moved to Austin three years ago, and it was really important to me that we really establish ourselves in a community and have friends.

And so I was very intentional about that, but I'll say pickleball. Having never played it in Seattle, coming here, playing it for the first time, we've met such incredible people who are lifelong friends, including Stormy and Steve. I mean, we would never have met them if there were pedals in our hands, you know?

It's like this, it's a key that unlocks so much. Enrichment in your life and I say that and it sounds ridiculous, but I'm all about the cult of pickleball and I just, it's really rare that you meet someone who's a jerk on the court. I mean, I'm not saying they don't exist, but Most people are great.

It's true. I was going to say, even though that's like our first chapter, don't be a dick. We're talking about relationally on the court, but for the most part, you rarely meet jerks playing pickleball. Like they're just, it's just an amazing group of people. It's fun. It's playful. It's there's a lot of laughter.

There's a lot of encouragement. You know, I, I can't get enough. I mean, the only thing that limits me is my body and this Work thing people who don't play yet. Like it's like, I know you are so missing out. Your life could be so much more amazing. It's so true. And yeah, I think the community is absolutely My favorite part about pickleball.

I mean, and really, I mean, like Teri said, it sounds cheesy, but it's been like life changing for me. And I, I mean, I said to my wife today, I'm like, why did, like, it's hard to remember life before pickleball. And it's only been two years, you know? And so , it's really been just a blessing.

And I mean, and I would say, I think for me, it was very heartwarming for both of us, for Teri and I, like, Not surprising, like how welcoming and incredible the pickleball community has been about our book is not surprising at all because of how awesome the pickleball community is. But we've both written other books and that, you know, it's not, this was just an outlier as far as like the warm, welcoming reception that we've gotten from the pickleball community, . And I think that's just represents how awesome the pickleball community is. I met this woman the other day, she and her husband are driving around in an RV going to play pickleball all over the country.

Like what other sport do you do that? Okay. That's my goal though. That's funny. And that's funny. Stormy, when you said that, because my husband said literally the other day, What the heck did we do before Pickleball? Like, we are so consumed and addicted. And, , if somebody had told me two years ago, I would not have believed them.

No. No. For sure. , Teri hasn't heard this story, I have a really funny story. So my brother is in town,  so I'm talking to one of his friends the other night and, you know, we're having a glass of wine and, and he said.

 You wrote a book on pickleball? We're talking about, he goes, you're not gonna believe this. My business partner, he said, I told him I was going out here to, ski with my, with my buddy, Wynn and his sister Stormy. And he says, it's not Stormy Hill, is it? And he says, yeah. And he goes, I'm literally reading her pickleball book right now because my wife and I fight on the court, like, you know, just all the time.

My husband is literally at adult daycare right now. He played pickleball in the morning and now he's on the golf course.

 I have one more question I want to ask you. If there was a future episode of this pickleball and partnership podcast, what would you like to see it about and why? Oh, good question. . I know. I want to know why Anna Bright and James Ignatowicz broke up.

 I was there at the Utah PPA event. About to ask her to write a testimonial for our book, but it was the day they had broken up that would be a good one I mean, I think you know, I guess kind of to piggyback and I have two things one would be , obviously this is a tough dynamic because so few pro couples play together.

So that would be kind of an interesting thing about like the pro couples and you know, taking it kind of to that next level of like even tournament play and pro play and how to navigate that relationally would be an interesting episode. And I think , I would love to like hear an episode.

10 things not to do on the pickleball court when you're playing with your partner. I like that. 

 What is absolutely a no go zone for you when you're navigating conflict? And so that might be an interesting, you know, thing to kind of ask couples or guests that you have on because,  for me, it's like raising of the voice, right?

I mean, that's from prior relationships. My current partner knows, like, I'm not down with yelling or raising of the voice. It's just, it's too upsetting to me. 

It's a no go. couples who've been able to find their way back. Yeah. That's interesting to me because it shows resilience in a partnership and it's hard to do.  I just want people to enjoy playing together. So, A, I want people to understand that just because you're not playing together now doesn't mean you can't.

In the future, and I'd love to hear more stories about people who have found their way back. Well, if you think about relationally, one of the things I love about relationships is that you do.

Get opportunities to repair and restore. Conflict gives you opportunities to repair and restore. So I love that, Teri, because it's the reparation and restoration back to playing together. Repair and restore. Yeah, that's great. I love that. Great ideas. . So where can listeners find you and where can they find your book?

You can find our book on amazon. com.  And you can find us on Instagram at love underscore and underscore pickleball. And we've got tips and videos on there. And then also our website, love and pickleball. net. Thank you so much, Teri and Stormy. I really enjoyed our conversation today.

 I'm going to suggest that everybody go out, get a copy, read it, listen to this podcast, and then get out there on the pickleball court. Thank you, Charlotte. Thanks for having us. You're so welcome.