Ep. 9 - From Reluctance to Reconnection: Our Journey with Faith & Spirituality

Finding Faith: From Reluctance to Revelation

In this deeply personal episode, we explore the spiritual journey of a couple (us) navigating our faith from Catholic roots to a broader and more inclusive understanding of spirituality.

We discuss early influences, the struggle with organized religion, and the new paths we've discovered through open-minded exploration.

Through candid conversations about God, spiritual practices, and raising our children in a faith-inclusive environment, we underscore the importance of curiosity, openness, and love in spiritual growth. Whether it's through traditional methods, meditation, or personal rituals, we share how they've embraced our spiritual beliefs without judgment, while encouraging listeners (you) to find their own paths.

00:00 Introduction: A Surprising Topic

00:12 From Sex to Faith: A Personal Journey

01:05 Strict Catholic Upbringing

02:24 Exploring Different Faiths

03:29 Mission Trip to the Dominican Republic

04:09 Vegas and Christian Rock Concerts

04:54 Questioning Spirituality and Church Experiences

13:37 Marriage and Religion

14:33 Raising Children with Diverse Religious Influences

15:56 Navigating Religious Differences in Family

22:30 School Choices and Religious Education

26:05 Exploring Religious Curiosity

26:54 Personal Experiences with Baptism

28:29 Spiritual Conversations and Community

30:05 Interpreting Religious Texts

31:48 The Power of Personal Scripture

32:44 Conversations with God

34:16 Faith and Science

36:53 Parenting and Spirituality

38:55 The Journey of Faith

41:54 Embracing Diverse Spiritual Practices

51:12 Final Reflections on Faith

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Transcript

EP.9 V1
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[00:00:00] And I think God wants us to talk about sex today. But you're saying, Nope, I'm saying not today. Not in a head space. It's kind of like when we have sex, not in a head space until you are Ooh. The whole way. And I'm like, why did you fight it in the first place? But if you wanna talk about faith, I'm here for it.

Well, it's kind of hard to go from sex to faith, so I don't know if that's a great way to really, maybe when you orgasm, you're the closest to God you're ever gonna be surrender submittal, letting go. Uh, maybe. Right? That's why you say, oh God.

For me, I had a much different relationship with. Any higher power or something bigger than me or just faith in things working out. Universe source, God, [00:01:00] anything you. Different. Mm-hmm. Although we have similar backstories. Yeah. But I was raised much more strict Catholic than you. I don't think you, like I went to a private school, a private Catholic school.

A private Catholic school. Went to church twice a week. Once on Fridays with school, Sundays with the family. Hmm. My entire extended family on both sides was Catholic. This is also like a cultural thing, not because I'm an Italian. Mm-hmm. Raised by, you know, people who were born in Italy. Yeah. And I'm mostly Irish.

And so different, and also New Yorker versus Midwest. Right? Yep. So I'm sure our experience and you were in like Midwest in the country. Yeah. Different, different experience. So when did that stop? When your parents got divorced or, yeah, so I. Let's see. At fifth grade, I went to a pub. We, me and my best friend at the time, Kelly, um, talked our parents into letting us go to a public school.

And so once we were able to go to a public school, we didn't have to go to church as much. I mean, I still had to go to church, but that's right [00:02:00] when my parents got divorced, and I, I remember the story as like the church didn't want them to come to church anymore because they were getting divorced. But that could have just been a story.

My parents kind of made a little way out. Um. And so I did get confirmed. I had my sacrament of confirmation and that was like, I think the last time I went to church in a Catholic church. Yeah. And then I went on an entire like journey. So why don't you talk about that? 'cause it's, it's super interesting.

Yeah. So after that, um, you went on like almost like a, um, like a tour of every type of faith out there, right? Like you were a lot of 'em. Yeah. You were searching for something at that point? Yeah. I mean, I didn't really tour like a lot of different, there's a lot of religions I still really know. Weren't you like one where like they were in tongues and like the whole thing?

Yeah. So that was a non-national Christian denominational. Yeah, whatever, whatever the fuck is non though. But, um. That. So a couple of my friends also [00:03:00] had, like my best friend at the time, Alex, her family was really religious, but in that Christian faith, not in Catholic faith. And so I really started kind of like.

Looking we us together, me and Alex started really experimenting and looking at what that faith looked like and tried that on. And so I would go to all sorts of churches and yeah, they would speak in tongues and they would like bless people and the people would fall and start shaking and they'd talk in different language.

And it was wild. And that led me to, um, go on a mission. Trip when I was 15 to Dominican to Dominican Republic. So we went for 14 days and it was like, I don't know, probably 25 of us or something. My youth group. And we were there for 14 days and it was an entire experience. We actually went to a funeral in the Dominican, it was like an eight hour thing.

Did Alex get like really sick? Alex ended up getting a parasite when she got back. Mm-hmm. Um, and it was wild because after I came back from that, a lot of like. [00:04:00] Family. Weird things happened, like literally from the time I stepped foot off the plane. Um, and then there was a snowball effect with all this crazy stuff that happened in my personal life.

But yeah, so I, even when I first moved to Vegas, um, I was still going to church, so I went to, um, canyon Ridge Christian Church up in North, north Las Vegas. And I remember the first, I think took you, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I think the first time I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. This is like a. Like a Christian Rock concert and they were talking about relationships.

Yeah. And then when we went back and it was Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. I'm like, I'm out. Yep. Well, and I think the part that turned you off was the, it was a really good conversation and then they started talking a lot about money and about how you should, you know, give money to them. Exactly. Yeah. But I mean, I was so in it that, I mean, I have a tattoo of a cross on my back with wings, you know, it looks like Aerosmith pretty much.

Um, very classy. Yeah. And then. You know, just even before you, I was already kind of like questioning what spirituality [00:05:00] meant. Like I really liked the community of a church. I loved the, you know, the, um, like, it was fun. Like the songs were fun. It was fun to sing and know everything, and a lot of, a lot of great tradition and culture and sense of belonging.

There's so many beautiful things about it and so many great messages. Like really, truly, like it depends on obviously the leader of whatever kind of church or service you're going to, but. But so many good messages and so much love. And like I went to, um, I was in tech when I was at school. What's that? So tech is a, um, it's a Catholic, like, kind of like a retreat of sorts for kids at a certain age.

And you go through this whole weekend and it's this whole spiritual, religious like weekend. And at the end of it, like there's this whole, like, your family comes together and it's a lot of crying and it's a lot of like self-realization and that was really powerful for me. I think at the time my brother was like, completely not like, he was like, I'm not into any of this.

And I think I even, they brought him in and had like, we had this conversation so long. It [00:06:00] was an intervention kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And then I went to like these, I would go, I would go to Christian concerts and I mean like I, a room with 30,000 teenagers singing Christian music. Like the energy of that place is something that.

You don't find, the only other time I've ever felt that energy is at Tony Robbins events, it's wild. But yeah, so my journey has been crazy. And then since then. You know, it starts with us. No, like there's some things about, like, I knew the whole story, but not in this frame. So it's, I'm trying not to sit here.

Like, this is like where I'm sure people listening or watching or there's the judgment, right? Right off the bat they don't know where we're going with it. Like, are they into religion? Are they not, like, there's so much, like there's so much energy around it. Totally. They don't even know. Like, it's, are they gonna say they're in, like they, they're, they have faith and what kind of faith?

And there's a lot of. A lot of emotion. Yeah. Towards this. I don't want to like stereotype the two of us, but there we really do fit some of these stereotypes. [00:07:00] Like you're out in the country, in the Midwest and, and mine is kind of stereotypical too, right? I had the grandma, the Nona, who only spoke Italian and lived in the church.

Like everything was God. Like she, the first thing she asked you when you saw her was like. Did you go to church? My dad was like, say you watched it on tv, right? Mm-hmm. But it was, it was an expectation. We were like very traditional Catholic, midnight mass, Sunday mass, get dressed up. You know? He was raised that way.

My father, my mother wasn't as much into it. And you know, my parents been divorced since I was three, so I never was Well, your mom's mom was Jewish. She was Jewish, but even she converted. Not converted. Oh, okay. Yeah. But like didn't really celebrate. Yeah. 'cause she was with my grandfather who was Catholic.

Right? Yep. So a lot of my influence came from my father. And even they had this very interesting, my dad and his parents way about it, because my grandmother was lefty. Mm-hmm. And my father's lefty, and three [00:08:00] of his brothers and sisters were lefty. Four out of the five were lefty. And in the Catholic church, the old school Catholic church being lefty was the sign of the devil.

So few they would. The, the nuns would beat her left hand. Mm-hmm. Into actually becoming a Righty. 'cause that's how hardcore Yeah. It was. And so she was like, you're not going to Catholic school to, to all of my aunts and uncles and my father. Mm-hmm. But yet my grandfather was like, you're going to church.

So he would take all the kids to church. My dad, oh. And I had this weird thing like he wanted me to go. Mm-hmm. But he was weird about it. And I, and here's the crazy thing. I live two houses down from my church. So it was my house, a house, and then a church. Saint Sylvester's. Mm-hmm. Right. And so I had very weird interactions with the priests because we would use their parking lot to play sports in the back 'cause so where like we had horses so the trail would like go behind my neighbor's [00:09:00] yard into the parking lot that went super back in the church.

Mm-hmm. So I connected. Well the priest used to always yell at us. Like always. So I always had that weird, yeah. You already had the association. Yeah. I was always in trouble. There was some cool priests, like Father Joe was awesome. I remember him, but everyone else was like, yeah, no good. And so on the property I went to religious instructions.

Right? And so I had to go. Same thing, we did the big communion when I was nine and I had to go for confirmation. Well, one year I had religious instruction at Friday night at five o'clock. And all my friends were at the movie theater and I had to go to religion. I was pissed off, like I would have my father in the car waiting to ready to take me.

Yeah. Up the streets, the woods friends. Yeah. I was just annoyed. And then I'll never forget, there was this boy, Brian Piccolo and Eddie, my buddy Eddie, my brother, even though he is not my real brother, he was my brother. We were in religious instructions together [00:10:00] and we're, we we're, we got our bibles out, we're reading, we're in a basement, and he kept calling me Tina.

And I said, call me Tina one more time and I'm gonna kick your ass. Yeah. And of course Eddie being the ultimate like, um. You know, uh, peacekeeper. He's like, Dave. Dave and he, Brian Piccolo looks at me. He goes, Tina, I said, your ass is mine. Religious instruction ends. We go out. I remember there was like this little courtyard and this beautiful little tree, and I'm fighting Brian LoPiccolo or Piccolo on church grounds.

Mrs. Tuttle's going on God's ground, you're fighting. And I was like, Mrs. Tuttles, miss Tuttle. I remember her name. I can't believe I remember her name. And so that was kind of my thing. So confirmation went. Did I, uh, what is it when you, um, when you confess, right? Did one confession. I never went back. Oh. I had to do confession all the time.

I was out. And so it coincided with. We, [00:11:00] my dad and I went into the city, I don't know if it was Easter or Christmas, and we were gonna go to church before we showed up to my aunt's house and my grandma's house. The cathedrals, they're cathedrals, Hmm. In New York are like the ones in Europe. Some of 'em, they're the most gorgeous things you've ever seen.

And they're packed. Mm-hmm. Especially on those days like standing room only, and we're in there and there's this, it all depends, like you said, on the father. Like, who's the priest? And we had one, my dad was like, you know, real red face. He liked his sacrament for sure. Um, and he was like, and for all of you that just come on Eastern Christmas, you could leave now.

And my father, you know, he's a chill, older, kind, loving man now. But he has an intensity that I get that from, he's like, you we're outta here. Mm-hmm. Basically like. I'm not, yeah. They don't wanna see or we're not staying. Yep. And so we were out and we never went back and he never made it an issue again.[00:12:00] 

That led me to where I'm at. I really never really thought about it again. Like I didn't want to be, I always get confused between agnostic and atheist. So I was somewhere between agnostic and atheist. Mm-hmm. Where like, I don't know if one exists versus there's nothing. Yep. Right. And so, you know, coincided with the nineties, which were like a little bit of a dark time.

Right. The music, the thing. And then I moved out here and. I really didn't think about it again. Yeah. And um, you know, I went through my mom when she moved to Texas. I don't know if she was just wanted like there's a lot of Methodists and Baptist. Yeah. So all of a sudden, like I go and visit her for the first time.

We're already dealing with the fact that she lives in another state. She's forcing me to get dressed up to go to church, this Baptist church. And that's. If for someone who's not Baptist, that's another world too. Mm-hmm. Right. I was just being a shitty kid and I was like, you're just faking being a Baptist.

Like, you know, like in just another war. So there, yeah, there wasn't really a lot of great [00:13:00] experiences for me Right through. The church. Yeah. Right. And and it was similar with me. Like the school that I went to, the principal was a priest and some of the teachers were nuns. Like my fourth grade teacher was a nun.

Pretty sure she didn't have a teaching degree. Yeah. Because what we did was we rewrote the Bible. Like my entire fourth grade, you know what I mean? Yeah. And there was a lot of pain, a lot of things that were unspoken in that culture. And going on to our story is like, I definitely always kept faith, but not in that, not in the way I was taught to at all.

Yeah. So then we meet. Mm-hmm. And so this is how kind of like relationships and marriage come into play. Neither one of us were like, so set on a certain religion that we wanted to get married with, or even we talked about it a little bit on how to raise our kids. Mm-hmm. Like if your Aunt Lori didn't marry us, we probably wouldn't even even had any religion part of it.

Right. But [00:14:00] she's what's, she's an Episcopalian priest, which is a very approachable Yeah. Religion. Right. Yeah. But it actually was pretty cool. Mm-hmm. Because I love your Aunt Laurie, and there was the tradition of tying the knot. Tying the knot. We didn't even know. So I guess the tradition goes like this, like you put your hands together and they, they wrap this, like the, the thing that they wear over them.

They take that and they actually wrap like an actual knot, like the scarf or whatever it's called. Yeah. And they wrap it around. It's tying the knot and putting us together, which was nice. It was a nice tradition and it added, it didn't take away, and I, I think we're all cool with it. Mm-hmm. That day. But I don't know if you remember, but when we had Ella, there was some drama around whether or not we were gonna baptize her.

'cause in New York, it's like, you think it's like the movie, the Godfather being the Godfather is like, the Godmother is a big deal. Everyone's in suits and you're throwing a huge party and like, like it's a, it's almost like the one, one year, uh, birthday. Mm-hmm. Like we go all out. Totally. There's money, [00:15:00] there's alcohol, there's food.

I mean, you think someone's getting married. So there was, my dad doesn't really like insert himself into this stuff, but he was not happy. Yeah. I forgot about your parents. No, my entire family was not happy. Um, my mom could care less 'cause she stopped going to church when they got divorced too. My dad definitely cared more, but it was kind of just my extended family, like, you know, I think a lot of people were confused on why we wouldn't have baptized them.

My family doesn't communicate. All that much. So there's a lot of stoicism in the Midwest, so it wasn't like people were talking or asking about it, but I could just, I just knew that you felt it was kind of, you felt. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, I remember going to the heathens of us out in here in Vegas. Yeah.

And I remember, do, I do remember going to dinner one time, I think with my sister and my dad and my brother, and, and they said something, they had asked about when Ella's baptism was, and I was like, yeah, we're not doing that. And then it was just like. Like I just punched 'em all in the face. They were kinda like, wait, what?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, and this is kind of where we're getting to, right? Like a [00:16:00] lot of this is thoughts in hindsight. Mm-hmm. Right? Like I've evolved so much on these things with a different frame of mind. But I remember thinking back then how kids, something so pure and so beautiful like this, this daughter of mine be conceived with sin.

Right. I needed such a reframe, like is this really original sin is like, this is you delivering Ella. Was like looking back was probably the first time I was like willing to consider a God again. Exactly. It did the opposite. Yeah. It wasn't a God-fearing thing. It was a godlike loving thing. Loving thing.

Like here's a new life. Yeah. You know what I mean? I was like, this is the most beautiful, pure thing I've ever experienced. This love is so unconditional. You want to believe in God, have kids. Mm-hmm. Like, like that was kind of like the beginning Yeah. Of that. And I was like, I don't want. I dunno. I also don't like to be told what to do.

Right. Yeah. You don't do well with authority. I don't. And that was one of the things, like if [00:17:00] people are preaching to me Yeah. In a way of that's not inviting, like using it as a weapon or, you know, like, or judgment. Yeah. Especially like, consider the source. Yep. Right. If you're like an alcoholic, overweight priest telling me how to live my life, like, you know what I mean?

Like Yeah. It's just, it, it's like, and you've never been married and you don't have children. It, it doesn't hit well for me. Right. But I think I have had, I call it lowercase god, a g and like uppercase, but especially more so with faith. Mm-hmm. Like there's lowercase, like lowercase F and capital F. Yep.

Right. And I've had. Issues with both. Whereas I believe you, you're you, I don't know if it's women in general, I don't know if it's just this wisdom or innateness because you're like the mother of the world. Like you guys have a much more innate spirituality and knowing than I think men and not to, [00:18:00] not to shit on any men.

Yeah. Or to suck up to women. It's just something about it. Like we may be primal and you guys are just. The serenity or something about it. Yeah, no, I, and you've had it since we've met. I, yeah. I don't think I've ever lost it. I mean, I've definitely interchanged the word God throughout my, my journey, right?

Like, so I believe in divine source energy, that whole thing. And that's kind of even what I talked to the girls about, talked to you about a lot of religion and a lot of where this takes place and why I just found it so interesting and why I wanna go to every church just to see how they. You know what their traditions are and what their beliefs are and everything.

Because I feel like it's all the same message. It's just in a different frame. Right. And I do believe, like I would always ask and I would ask my teachers, I was like, yeah, but like if I was born in the Middle East, wouldn't I be Muslim? Muslim? You know what I mean? And they were like, no. And I was like, yeah, that doesn't make sense to me.

You know? Yeah. Like, or if I was born in a [00:19:00] Jewish family, I would be Jewish. Like, yeah. It has nothing to do with me choosing God or not. It was, it was something very, very like generational, you know? Yeah. And so I was like, how can I have a journey of my own that I solely choose, that my soul chooses, that I know and my coach talks a lot about?

Um, but this wasn't until recent. No, but even then, 'cause this was the, you're jumping 15 years since I've met you, right? Yeah. And this is within the last year. Yeah. Right. I'm talking about the run up to now, because where we are today is different, especially our individual journeys. Mm-hmm. Which is ironic that we both ended up with coaches and groups that have so much spirituality.

Right. And we went and got it our own ways and then came back. Yeah. Which I don't want to bury the, you know, the lead here, but that's where we're getting to. Right. Yeah. And I'm just saying like. Without necessarily knowing that you were seeking it, you had it. Yeah, a hundred percent. Like you, I do have unwavering faith.

You do? Yeah. And that's like one of my biggest things like. It's, and [00:20:00] saying you have unwavering faith versus actually having it are two very different things. Mm-hmm. Because some of the people who claim to have that don't. Right. And I'm not even judging there. Like I, I love having the conversation, people like, I believe, but I have.

My moments of weakness or my moments of doubt, like mm-hmm. That's a more approachable, honest conversation that I can plug into. But you've had this spirituality, like even when we went and did the auras in Sedona, like you were glowing, like it was like an afro of spirituality. Mm-hmm. My mind was like red, red, red.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like intense and looking back when you've always been like, things are going to work out. Like no one resists more than me. No one tried to like control the future and not submit. Yeah. And not, you know, like not surrender and just continually resist. You have had much more flow with it.

Mm-hmm. Right. I'm not saying you have unwavering faith because there are times where you do lock up. Yeah. Right. But it's still like [00:21:00] my, my initial reaction, and even if I get out of that, I go back to like even with. Things that are happening in the world now. I'm like, okay. Like yeah, there's something greater that's to be learned from this, you know?

Yeah. That's honestly the only way I can think. Otherwise, I will spiral and go completely in the other direction. I think it's a little bit of your personality too, because I see. I see. Just, I mean, Gigi's personality still isn't fully developed, so we don't know how. Yeah. She's just perfection now. Like wild ball of energy.

Right? Yeah. But Ella and Lola are developed. Yep. And Ella has that same way that you do. And Lola has the same way I do. I don't know. I think Lola's. She the opposite. She's more willing to have like the conversation with God, but she worries about things that she's trying to control. Yeah. A hundred percent.

Right. Where Ella's like, ah, it'll work out. That's fair. Right? Yeah. So that's not even necessarily like a, um, a nurture thing. It's a nature thing. Mm-hmm. Like they were just born that way. Totally. Right. They're [00:22:00] like, can't blame it on your parents. Can't blame it. Like Ella's, like you and Lola's like me. Yep.

Right. That's as genetic as you can get. That's why Gigi's perfect. 'cause she's a mix both of us. It would make her very fucking dangerous, that's for sure. If she'd be like, she, she's dangerous child. She's already dangerous child. Oh my God. That's, that is quite a, it's gonna be interesting. Formidable. Yeah.

Formidable person. But, um, well, let's just, let's, let's go back to them, right? So this is how wild we are. Just on our school choices alone, how, even though we are, we weren't like organized religion, how all three of our girls went to a Jewish preschool. Yeah. And not just Jewish, like, like they speak hu, they speak like Gianna speaks Hebrew.

Hebrew in a lot of different things. And I got, I get so upset. They make me wear the Yama every time. Every time just wear a hat. It just doesn't look good. On my Balded head, it looks weird. Say, although all the Jews consider me a Jew, which is wild too. Yeah, because my mother's mother was Jewish and in that like, so I am [00:23:00] actually technically a Jew, which I always thought I was Russian or Ukrainian.

Right? 'cause I'm three girls. You are Russian. You're Russian Jew. Well, it's actually when the Ukraine and Russia were together and I'm from the Ukrainian part, so I'm actually Ukrainian. Oh. Which is even more interesting 'cause I thought I was Russian the entire time. Right. Oh, and then when you do 23 and me, it's like you're an Ashkenazi Jew.

So like I already have that built in, but I'm three quarters Italian and race Catholic. Yeah, right. Which is just wild how this all goes. So they go to this school. And we really don't fight it. We embrace it. No, totally embrace it. It's great school. They're learning great things. Like I think it's the cutest thing ever when they, they pray in Hebrew, but which the Jewish religion is a beautiful religion.

And especially the more, the deeper you go into it. Yeah. Yeah. And they're very inclusive. They're very, like, I haven't. I've never felt judged by a Jew. And we have so many Jewish friends, they're judging you for sure. Shut up. You're a gentile. You're not part of the club. I dunno. I feel the love. I feel the love from all my Jewish friends.

Um, but no, I think it's a really [00:24:00] inclusive school. It's. It's like, you know, their traditions are beautiful. Like, so then we, then we went to a nothing, just a school on its own private. Yep. Then we were at a very open school where like the inmates ran the asylum. Right. That was, yeah. That was a very progressive, very, and, and we're fairly progressive when it comes to that was like, these, my kids are way too strong.

They're gonna take over the whole world. Yeah. And now we're at a, we're at a, a very, a Lutheran. It's Lutheran, but it feels very Christian. Well, that, that's what that is. Yeah. It's v We pray, bef they pray before everything. They go to chapel. They, it's, it's big time. Yeah. They pray, they sing. Um, I mean, their mission statement is everyone, everyone's saved something like that.

Everyone welcome. Everyone saved or something absolutely saved or something like that. We're wonderful parents when it comes to that shit. I know. Yeah. They're learning some great things like, you know, she had a religious, I helped Lola with a. A religious part of her homework yesterday for religion class.

And there were a couple questions where I was like, Hmm, yeah, I'm gonna push back on that. But [00:25:00] the rest of it was great, you know? Yeah. I was like, okay, this makes sense. And so I think like it, we kind of lucked out with that. Like it's really interesting game when like when someone's Jewish and someone's Catholic, or someone's Mormon and someone isn't like, yeah, because then you're like really held back, like, you gotta marry a Jewish girl.

You gotta marry a Muslim man. You gotta marry. Like that's when it becomes an issue. And I, I think. Where we have done it right a little bit by accident or luck is that we've been very open. To it. Mm-hmm. And not like, no. I mean, maybe at one point, like if someone's trying to shove God down my throat, I'm, I'm resistant.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I think that it's the approach, right. But I think we're very curious, like, yeah. I had some clients that were, were Mormon, that were incredibly Mormon, and I was just like the nicest people in the world, and I was just so curious to like learn. Yeah. Like, I'm like, wait a minute.

Like, and I'm probably sound ridiculous asking the questions I was asking, but she was like, bring 'em on. Like I, she wanted to share, you know what I mean? Yeah. And there's a lot of things about every religion and [00:26:00] that's why like, like even the Mormon religion, I think the mission is the best thing. Yeah, it's fascinating.

I don't know if I'd want to like go learn a language and try to sell the Mormon religion to convert people, but like all my Mormon friends that could speak another language. Oh yeah. They were out on their own. Like I was like, there's a world where educated. Yeah. Take that. And like somehow make it work just for my kids.

Right, right, right. Like there's things if you're open that you could take. It's just the stereotypes. Even Scientology, like everything I think was started with very interesting things. Totally. And there so many, so being curious is a huge thing. Yeah. It's being curious. And I think that you could take something from every religion.

And benefit your life and your, your soul journey. So what I think what we're saying is soul journey is a good one actually. Yeah. I think what we're saying is religious choice. Yeah. And I think, I don't think, I feel like I know when you force kids to do something, it's a different game. Mm-hmm. Right? When, when Ellis started Faith two years ago, my worst fear came true [00:27:00] immediately.

For like a minute. She was like, I think I want to get baptized. And I wasn't like, I could care less if she's wants to get baptized, but I was like, if she just wants to get baptized again to to fit in. Yeah. I was like, that's not the reason I remember saying to her, I was like, if you go read the Bible and you go learn everything about it and you want to be baptized, I will go with you and do it.

Yep. I'll support it. I'll throw you a party. I'll do the whole thing. Right. That's the thing. Like to me like baptizing as renewal, as rebirth as a choice, I think is a reframe of the most beautiful thing. To the point where I'm like, I could be down for that. And I don't even think, as I'm getting deeper into religion again and just the spirituality, I don't even think being baptized should be a one-time thing.

I think you have to be dunked and renewed multiple times. Like, it's not like, like, and I'm probably butchering this, or if I, I don't know my, I don't know my bible, but like, this is my interpretation, right? Mm-hmm. I want to be cleansed [00:28:00] and rebirthed and re reminded and connected multiple times. Mm-hmm.

Like, I don't think it's just one time and like I'm good. Yeah, totally. Right. And so I think this is the reframe that we've come full circle with. We went from reluctant Catholics. Mm-hmm. To having four books of the book, conversations with God and reading it out loud and talking about religion with our kids.

'cause that's quite the jump. Well, yeah, I mean, just most recently it's been, um, it's not, it's just more of a spiritual journey, right? So it's, it's being connected with people that speak the same language and that are willing to have a conversation about it. Right? Like, there's so many people that are just.

Not willing to have the conversation. Right. It's one of the forbidden things to talk about. Yep. Religion and money and. Politics, politics, sex, you know, everything's forbidden nowadays. Well, that's fair. No one will talk the truth because, but we've, we've put ourselves in these communities of people that are, that want to [00:29:00] have the conversation, that are open and willing to have the conversation.

Yeah. And the people in the container are willing to like, be curious and ask questions and not judge about what that looks like. Like, um, even you like the aliens and things like that, right? Oh yeah, totally. Like I'm in a psychedelics, right? Yeah. I'm in a group that client medicine, um. You know, my coach specifically, she's, she believes that she's a pleidian and that she's come, she's otherworldly and Yep.

And it's. It's interesting because even though for so many people that seems like, okay, you lost me there, right? Yeah. For me, I'm like, let me ask questions. Let me get curious about this. Like, what does that mean for you? How does that show up in your life? Like, and I've learned so much from her in that frame.

That helps me with my own journey. Right. Yeah. And now I don't believe that I'm a pleidian. I believe that we all came from the galaxies and the stars and the cosmos, but not, I haven't done the research or have, I don't have that knowledge that she has to believe [00:30:00] that. But I know that what she has and how she shared it has helped me on my spiritual journey.

Right. And even the other people in my group, like there's Wait, wait, wait. How she shared it? That's the biggest thing. Like even our friend Azi. Mm-hmm. Like he's. Very Christian, and he's like, I just love my conversation because he's like, one way is you build a fence around your religion. You either in or out.

And one way is you build a well and you invite people in. Yeah. That approachability is what makes all the difference in the world, rather because I can understand people feel persecuted. I mean, every religion's been through it, right? A hundred percent. And they're like, well, you know, I wanna fight back. I get it.

But like that defeats the purpose in the first place, right? Every single religion across the board, every single belief system within that realm, right, is love, invitation, connection, community. Right. And I think people lose sight of that a little bit. So I don't wanna cut you off, but you said the way she shared it Yeah.

Was a big thing for you. It's a huge thing. And then, you know, [00:31:00] even having. Even the kids being in the, the environments that they're in right now. Right. Like them asking questions, like, part of the problem I think I had with religion, like organized religion growing up is I kept asking questions and nobody had answers.

That's fair. Right? Like, I was like, well, you're having me say this prayer, but can you explain what this prayer actually means? Well, no. Mm-hmm. That's not something we don't need to, you know, you don't question God, you don't. These things. There was, there was a regurgitation of it. It was like a blind faith.

Right, right. And, and taking especially the Bible at face value. Like literally Yes. Not looking at literal, like not looking at it as a metaphor for a lot of things. Or there's reading between the lines and seeing like 'cause there's, or that it was also written so long ago that Okay, hello things have changed an I what interpretation.

Exactly. Yeah. Which is every, this is, you see for me, like with my coaching, it was. Your own interpretation is your own scripture. Mm-hmm. So like if I, if I [00:32:00] sat down and read the Bible and the Koran and all the different places, all the things and life experiences, and then wrote down what I took from it, right?

That could be the book of David. And that's your scripture. That's my scripture. That's my interpretation. And if enough people believe my interpretation, there's a religion. It's wild. Right? Yeah. But maybe it was always supposed to be like that. And having like someone like my coach and reading conversations with God and reading Course of miracles and things like that.

Yeah. Like just considering a different perspective. Yeah. Well, one of the things I want you to mention and talk about is. Something that you've been doing that has kind of gotten to you, gotten you on this journey and this path. Right. And it's this, it's a stack. So this, so my one, my, my main coach, Garrett White, he read, he got this idea from a conversation with God.

Okay. So the book conversation with God, I think for anyone having curiosity or struggle or just looking for something [00:33:00] with faith mm-hmm. It's a great book to read. 'cause the premise is this guy is like. Feeling disconnected. He doesn't feel connected to God. He doesn't feel any faith whatsoever, and he's journaling and he just starts finally, he just asks God a question, and the way he says it is, his pen got taken over by God and God responded.

Mm-hmm. And the book is the conversation between him and God and the things that came out in God's like voice. Voice. Yeah. Is wild. It makes so much sense. It's so divine and it's really, really approachable for people who are in any religion. It's, it's could be instead of God fearing, it's God loving. Be right it and it takes, it, it, if anything it, it shows how science proves more so, right.

That there's something greater. And a lot of people in the spiritual world would call it light language or something like that, like. F channeling through another. For [00:34:00] me, it made me feel more connected to source. And if I wanna call it God, God, it made me feel more connected to everybody else. It made me feel not alone.

And this feeling of faith and this feeling of like. You know, being able, 'cause I'm an intelligent man, you're intelligent woman, like people are not dumb to be able to be like, wait a minute. Time, space continuum and quantum physics. Um, everyone's interpretation in the books. Energy source. Even some people have theories that a, that aliens are really angels and people can't tell the difference between them.

Mm-hmm. Right. Is plant medicine a way to get to other realms or Yeah, or get closer to God or source? Faster. Right, right. Are we truly in the matrix? And is the matrix just the time space continuum? Yep. So like, rather than like segment out and like, this is the only way you start looking at all the possibilities of how it all connects.

Mm-hmm. And then the game becomes really interesting. You now you're looking at the Bible [00:35:00] from like this, wanting to understand it, interpreting it in such a different way. Right. New ways of looking at it, curious what other people are interpreting it at, and these like open-minded conversations about something that we don't know.

Yeah, it becomes fun. And like for instance, for me, someone who is like fought and resisted and felt so alone. Like you could feel alone surrounded by people like to feel like there's God or source or energy with me or soul with me all the time. Yeah. It's so freeing. It almost feels like I'm an evangelic or EV evangelist.

I almost feel like I'm an evangelist. Like, I'm like, no, you gotta understand like, yeah, this is what's happening. Well, and it's the same. And that's the thing is it comes down to like even when I was meditating often. I tell people, I'm like, I would literally walk through a desert and I would see like a cactus or a flower, and I could see the vibration [00:36:00] of the cactus and the flower and feel like the oneness with.

Nature and with, with all things. And it's, it's the same thing, like it's hard to explain that to people when they haven't experienced it themselves or haven't tried to do the work themselves. Well, this is where it's gotten interesting. I have some friends, I'm like, they must be, I, I would think they'd be super excited that I'm going down this path, but then I tell them my interpretation and it's like.

Oh, no, no, you got it wrong. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, you don't have a, you don't have the right God and I got the wrong God. Like, we're all right. Like, you know what I mean? So even that is an interesting conversation. They got some other friends who are like, let's talk. That's the saddest thing, is like so much war.

And, and you know, destruction is based off of, well, you're right and I'm wrong. And it's like, no, nobody's right, nobody's wrong. Like it's just, it just is. It just is. That's it. That's the only answer. Well, even in the book with conversation with God, it's like there's only really two emotions, fear and love.

Mm-hmm. Right. [00:37:00] And the fear is what causes all the other things. Yeah. I mean, it, it sounds so simple. This thing called the stack is like just another way of having this conversation with God that Neil Donald Walsh had in his book. Mm-hmm. Right? And it's a process of going through like, I want God to know.

Right. And then, dear God, and then you're typing, and I've read so many of them to you. Mm-hmm. And the first one went like this, I don't believe in you. And he's like, that's okay, son. I'm like, don't call me son like it was. He was like, yeah, it's wild. And you're, again, you're saying all of these things I'm saying, you're saying, I'm saying it coming through and I'm doing it all in caps like he's got, and like we're just going back and forth and now the conversations are like so supportive and loving and unconditional and telling me, and me still resisting and him going, Nope.

Like even if it's just a game I'm playing with myself. Like even if. It's not real. Yeah. Which I believe it is. Who cares? [00:38:00] Right? Like, like for the longest time people say like, do you believe in your soul? And I believe in my soul, like there's a thing called noetics. You know, I read a lot and one of these, um, Dan Brown books.

And in the book I was always curious if this is a real thing, that if you're in a hyperbaric chamber when you die. Right. They could measure and weigh you right at the moment you die. Mm-hmm. And there's a, I forgot the amount of weight that leaves your body when you die, and they're trying to say that that's your soul.

That's your energy. Mm-hmm. Leaving your body. I thought it was fascinating, right? Mm-hmm. So I've always been curious and I'm like, I believe in the soul, but if, but if I believe in the soul and I believe my energy can't just be destroyed. And that's my Right. That conversation that, yep. Untethered Soul book, which is another great way of looking at it.

Like when you say hello in your brain and the person goes, I'm here. Yeah. Like, that's like, who's answering? Who's answering? Yeah. And so if you think that, then you gotta take it a step further and, and then I start thinking [00:39:00] inter interstellar with multiple dimensions and you know what I mean? Like, all right, well science and astronomy can't, physics can't describe all this.

Well, that's the thing is physics can actually explain the majority of all of it. I believe, you know, like it can, but it doesn't like, yeah, there still has to be faith. I agree. It's the unseen, the big bang. Mm-hmm. It's the unseen it could potentially be, and then God created light right there. There was only darkness and then he created light, like mm-hmm.

There was nothing. And then there was the Big Bang, like you could actually go step by step and then you even go back to the Mayans, like all the stories, the gods in the sky. This song, song, everything has so much alignment. It's just. It's the frame, even when you're talking about conversations with God, like fill in the God blank with whatever you want.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like fill it in with universe or source or divine or Lord, or, well, he does such a great job. He does Holy trinity. And he's like, it's, you know, past, present, future. Mm-hmm. You know, um, the father, the son, the Holy Spirit. Like he [00:40:00] connects it all. Yeah. Yeah. It could be the one, one of the most approachable things, and then you get curious.

Mm-hmm. And then take all of it out of it. Studies show people with faith live seven years longer. Yep. It doesn't matter what faith, but just a faith seven years longer and while they're alive, they're happy. Mm-hmm. So whether it's just being willfully ignorant, who cares? Yeah. Like I, I never bought into You're going to hell if you don't believe.

Yeah. No. And I still don't, I mean, that's not anything I, I think I've ever thought about. Like they've never been worried for me to sin that I'd go to hell. I just remember like, oh my God, I'm gonna do this and go to hell. And I think that, and that's the thing, right? So with our kids, it's been interesting because when I look at us, I feel like you've been steady, Eddie, even though you haven't necessarily shared your faith and didn't name it, you've always kept it.

And I went from like, [00:41:00] Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. I don't want it near me to like really talking about it a lot. Yeah. And I was like, I wonder what she's thinking about this. Like how I'm talking about this. Mm-hmm. Like, it is it, is it foreign for you? A little bit. I think it's more foreign because. It's been something that you fought so much and I've just kind of always been like, you know, and not, I've never, I knew that, that it would come, like, again, it's such a personal thing, like even in my world, like sometimes I feel like I'm a Buddhist, sometimes I'm like, oh, now I'm a whatever.

Like, I just don't know. I, I think that we can all be everything. Right? Yeah, because we, that's just energy. Do you just take my lead? Is that where you're at? No, I don't take your lead. I mean, just because you're starting to talk about God doesn't necessarily mean I'm going, like if you wanted to go to church, I'd be like totally open to it and I would have my own interpretation.

But like, I think one of the coolest things that we've talked about is taking our entire family to every single [00:42:00] type of church that there is, just so we could be like, look. How crazy, how amazing that like there's so many people, there's so many different types of religions and beliefs and and thought processes out there.

Like now. Now cultivate your own. And I will say, when I listen to your stacks, first off, I think that these are things that are very personal, but it would be so powerful if you shared them. Because when you read those to me, like I get chills all over, like my energy shifts, I'm like. Holy shit. That really does sound like God, that's fucking nuts.

You know? Yeah. And like these are things like, I think you should make a book of your stacks to give to your kids. That's a lot of guys. You know what I mean? A lot of guys in Warrior do it, and it's. It's so, so powerful. Yeah. So fucking powerful because it's your own scriptures, your conversations. Yeah. Um, and it's you working through something.

It's almost like a form of therapy in in it a hundred many ways. It a hundred percent is 'cause what better download can you get Yeah. Than looking and for me from source at and having you go through this journey like. [00:43:00] One of the things that you just recently wrote about, you were talking in a stack, and I can't even remember what the stack was about, but I remember like looking up at you, I don't even know if you realized I said this, but I was like, you know what?

I'm proud of you. And it wasn't because of what you wrote about in the stack. It was with the, what I was proud of is that you were. Not feeling confident or you were having anxiety about something or having an emotion and you were that disciplined enough to sit down and to actually create and write the stack and work through it.

Like the beauty of working through something like that is so fucking powerful. Well, for argument's sake, just so that the people who aren't into religion or faith. Aren't turned off. Mm-hmm. Right. Let's just say that you know the truth inside of you one way or another. Right? And if that truth comes from soul or comes from source, or comes from energy, or comes from God, you truly know the truth.

Yeah. Like it's there. Totally. And so if you get to it, you can't hide from it. And so that conversation of [00:44:00] truth with some things like, all right, if there is a God, how would he or she talk to me? If there is a supreme being, it would be with unconditional love. It would be with unconditional support. It would be with accountability.

Yeah. It would also be with truth. Like these are the things I think we all want to hear and we don't get to hear often. Or we do hear them from people we love, but they don't hit it the same. Yeah. Because you know, you're, they want to protect you or there's certain things I don't wanna talk about. And what I like, what we're doing is, you know, especially with both of our, our, our two older girls going to a school where they kind of force you into it.

Mm-hmm. Is that, you know, they may be going, well daddy is on this spirituality kick, but he's not forcing it down our throats. Right. Like, they'll come back and go, well what do you think of this? I'm like, I don't agree with it. But let's look at it from, let's look at this verse or this story from a completely different frame.

Mm-hmm. From a different perspective. And then I'll be like, what if it meant this? Yeah. What, what would you [00:45:00] think? And they're like, well, I kinda like that. Like, all right, great. Go with it. Try it on. Yeah. Right. And And I think that's 'cause I want them to have their own path. Right. And my job as a parent, I believe is giving them options.

Yeah. Right. I don't know where they're gonna end up. They're gonna be influenced by. The people they marry and their friends they have and the colleges like, but the influence for me, I, not only do I want to just give them perspective and option, I need to live what I talk. Mm-hmm. Right. Well, and if you wanna go way down the rabbit hole, like when I look at what we're doing with the kids, like I believe that like your soul chooses your parents, right?

Like I believe that whatever energy, like. I chose my parents for a, so you're going, you're gonna brook route, which I love. This is the energy healing and what Yeah, like again, like this is all encompassing. I love it. And people could be like, oh, you're all over the place. Well, yeah, that's soul chose. The God is all over the place.

The soul chose it for this experience. Right. I like, I like that frame a lot. Yeah. And because it's all, it's all learning, right? And, but what I like about what we're doing with the girls is that like, [00:46:00] part of why I think I was, I like rejected re like organized, organized religion for a long time is because.

People weren't willing to have the conversation. It was like, we're not, that's not what we're here to men or what we are meant to do about this. And I like that we're having open conversations, and not just about religion, but about everything that our kids deal with, whether it's sex or relationships or how to deal with friends, or which is all connected anyhow, how to live your life, whatever it may be.

And I feel like that is such a difference of like how we were raised generationally, like. That like my grandparents all willing fairness to our, to have that parents and grandparents, I don't think they had access to this. Well, a hundred percent right? A hundred percent. And these are some, these are some really cool things.

Like how easy, like for instance, you're always gonna blame your parents for something. Yeah, right. To be able to forgive them and take it a step further and like, wait a minute, I chose them. Yeah. I chose this experience, like, how could I have any anger? They did the best that they could with [00:47:00] what they had.

They were dealing with their own shit. Like, you wanna talk about a, a godly way of thinking? A divine way of thinking of something is just forgiving and letting go. There's no, and thanking them for there's no loss there. And thanking them, right? Yeah. Thinking them for even the bad. Like, what if I needed, what if my soul was on this journey where that is the lesson I needed in this moment?

Yeah. You know what I mean? So, so you mentioned church. Mm-hmm. And I have two friends. Probably two friends that are mentioning it a lot and maybe another two who are like, you should go to church and I'm resisting again. And just the fact that I'm resisting in saying it out loud, I feel like I probably should go.

So here's why though. I feel like I'm out at this place with. God, my creator, this connection to my soul, my source, and I just don't wanna fuck with it, right? I don't wanna be turned off. I don't wanna walk in and be like, and this is why I never came to these fucking places, right? And rather than be like open-minded, I'm curious and be like, wow.

All right. [00:48:00] Not that's, I can understand, but that's great. I love it. And just try it. I don't wanna audit, I think audit's a terrible word to let me audit this religion or well think, but on the other end, I almost wanna hide in the back and just experience it without, yeah. Being thrown in or I think the more being pushed, the more comfortable.

'cause again, you're just trying this kind of on again. Yeah. I think the more comfortable you are with what it means to you. And the more like unwavering you have on like your belief system. Yeah. Then you could step into any environment and be like, I'm gonna take what I can from this and then let go of the rest because somebody else's interpretation doesn't need to be mine.

It's easy for us to say that sitting here. Yeah. And you and I both know if you, even if we didn't take the kids, if we just slipped in after I was talking to someone about this, just like slip in after the beginning, go in the back. Like, I just don't wanna be like that phony fuck talking. You know what I mean?

Like I don't wanna, yeah. Because that's the other side and I gotta let go of that. I don't wanna [00:49:00] weaponize hide behind, use it for money. Like, yep. Like, and I don't know what's that saying about me. I don't know why that triggers me. I could probably have to get past it, but like I'm like, I got my beautiful relationship, my conversations with God in my stack.

I feel more like. I connected to God than I ever have. It's not even a return to God. Mm-hmm. I don't think I was ever there. Right. Right. There was no source. It's just like I found my spirituality. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm protecting it. I, yeah. So, but on the other end, I'm sure there's a whole nother world that I'm not access.

Well, it's, yeah. It's just tapping into everything else. And like I said, like it's like we've gone to seminars and events. All over the place and had multiple coaches done all the things. I think if we look at it as that, right, yeah, that's a great way of looking at it. And you can say, if I get one good thing out of this, then it's worth it.

Right? Like if there's one good lesson or one good thing, then then it's all worth it. And then just leave the rest. Yeah. Like, and that's [00:50:00] okay. Well that's not cocky, but a lot of people know us, so it's gonna be hard to hide. You know what I mean? Like, oh, like is he gonna go to a church? Yeah. But yeah, I just don't want people to be like, oh, he tried a church.

He doesn't like it. Like people are very territorial about their churches. Like, I got the good church. I got the good religion, I got the this, I got the, and I'm like, we just went through, think about what we just went through. We went through energy healing. Let's not forget, we went and saw a wizard. Yep.

Wizard Wayne. The Wizard. Wizard was gonna get killed. Wizard. Right. Um, we've done, um, true therapy. You know, EMDR, brain tapping. Um, I have friends that are and mult a lot in the Mormon church. I know so much about it. Catholicism, Christianity, Judaism, like, we're exposed to a lot of Lutheran Episcopalian.

Mm-hmm. There's so much. And we've read so many books and we've done, well, you've done a little bit of plant medicine, but we've gone down that realm and like, we're very open. We have [00:51:00] like a little soup of. Yeah, all this stuff to be continued, that'll be an extra interesting to be continued conversation after.

After I do some journeys. I So what would you say the takeaway? You know, we are inviting people into our spiritual journey. We had the conversation before we started, like, shouldn't we talk about this, this, and that? And I was like. I think our story alone of starting there, not being there, you know, as I think a lot of people can relate to that story.

And for me, the whole takeaway for our conversation is inviting people in to be like, there's no wrong answers. Be curious, not judgmental, and ask questions. Try it on right, and let it be a choice. You think you'll ever be baptized again? I don't think so. What if it was in a different way, not baptized? Um.

I don't know. Like I, it it depends on what maybe you're being baptized during a plant medicine, potentially. Maybe, maybe that's a version of it. Potentially just rebirth, renewal. I think when I do breath work, yes. [00:52:00] It's a baptism. Like I think that when we have conversations that are really deep and like meaningful with people, that could be like, again, I don't feel like that's the thing is like stop defining things and like, yeah.

So when we were talking about flow state mm-hmm. Flow state is when you're connected to your source. Yes. It's really when you're connected. Yeah. Some people say connected to God, right? So like even when you were like dancing last night, you were free. Maybe that's it. Yes. But you're truly free. And it's like, if, if I think people could take something from this episode, it's how often can you be connected to your flow state, to your source, to your divine energy?

Like what are you doing in your life that gets you there? Me spending time with Cruz is that right now. Like not, it's not her other man, her boyfriends, it's my horse or horse. But to me that's really grounding. That's, that's a spiritual journey for me, right? It's being present like it's me taking out of all the, the noise and it's like, okay, I'm here and I'm connecting with this other life that can't communicate.

In words, but [00:53:00] communicates to me in energy. And that to me is a spiritual journey for me. You know? Well that's even in conversations with God, he's, he said, you know, you're gonna see me less like, hear me. You're gonna feel me. Exactly. It's gonna be an energetic thing for me. It's more of not being alone.

Yeah. There's something about knowing that, like if I have. Your spirit guides and your, your angels and my purpose and you know, the universe has my back and it's God's plan. Like it makes me trust me. Which is then in extension, all of those things. Yep. As such a more certain and peaceful way that I don't tortures my soul.

Exactly. I'm less suffering. And that's from, I, you know, after 47 years, that's something that I can, uh, plug into. Mm-hmm. And without like. Trying to convert anybody or like I, it's not that I don't even care what people do, it's just, it's well, [00:54:00] somebody else's. It's hard. Enough's somebody else's journey is not your own.

Not only that, like I'm here trying to figure out mine. Like if it's interesting to you. Yeah, exactly. And this you connect to it. Beautiful. I think the biggest takeaway out the conversation is to. Take the judgment, the criticism, the expectations away from what you think religion or spirituality should be, and get curious and ask questions and have the conversation with your family, with your kids, with your friends.

Like be willing. To go there, right? Like I don't think enough people are willing to go there because when they are, it's not only the sharing that you can give for your own journey that could help other people, but it's also just like the lessons to be learned and the knowledge and all the information, and it's just remembering that like.

Nobody really fucking knows and we're all here, we're all well we're, we are all literally a part of one another and like we should start acting like it. And I think regardless, we're on a journey of faith, whether it's capital F or a lowercase [00:55:00] F. Yep. There has to be this faith in the future being bigger than the fear.

Mm-hmm. Right. Like knowing and feeling like I'm protected and that the best path forward is just letting go of the things I can't control. Yeah, right. Submitting to it and then controlling the things I can. Yep. That is true. Serenity.