EP. 10 - The Rise of Feminism: The Double-Edged Sword

The Evolving Dynamics of Gender Roles and Feminism in 2025

In this episode, we dive into the double-edged sword of feminism and its impact on modern relationships. We discuss how traditional gender roles have drastically changed over generations, the balance between masculine and feminine energies, and the unintended consequences of feminism. As we explore our personal experiences and the dynamics within our marriage, we highlight the importance of purpose, mutual respect, and effective communication in navigating these evolving roles.

00:00 Introduction to Modern Leadership

00:30 The Evolution of Gender Roles

00:48 The Double-Edged Sword of Feminism

03:00 Masculine and Feminine Energies

04:44 Balancing Alpha Energies in Relationships

07:09 The Crisis of Modern Masculinity

09:50 The Duality of Strength and Success

12:29 The Trap of Superwoman Expectations

21:30 Gender Dynamics in Homosexual Relationships

23:11 The Epidemic of High-Quality Women and Few Choices

25:13 Balancing Masculine and Feminine Energies

26:44 The Overcorrection of Masculinity and Feminism

30:15 Tony Robbins' Date with Destiny Experience

34:29 The Importance of Purpose in Relationships

42:20 The Role of Communication and Support

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Transcript

EP. 10 V1
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Dave: [00:00:00] Being a true leader is a dark art. Mm-hmm. Where, you know, I could be as feminine, loving, whatever you want to call it, relaxed. But then I can blowtorch everybody in one second. 

Angie: Yeah. And that to me is kind of hot, 

Dave: which is fucking insane. That could be, that could be very dangerous.

It is 2025. The roles of men and women have evolved so much, but like anything else or everything else in 2025, there's just overcorrections everywhere and there's unintended and unintentional consequences of something good. And so today I wanna talk about, or we want to talk about the double-edged sword of feminism and how it is affected our modern day lives.

Angie: Yeah. This has actually been a topic. Of ours that [00:01:00] we've talked about since we started dating. Right. And it was very much like the roles that we were each gonna have and take on. And I think it's evolved very drastically from when we first started and because I've tried and tested out certain things.

Yep. And I've come a long way, um, on just the whole idea of what I wanna do and how the roles I wanna take on. But it's interesting because it's always been a topic and you always kinda said jokingly like, F feminism ruined the world. Like, you know, and it was always a joking statement, but in a lot of ways, like you said, there's so many consequences that it comes with that.

I don't think women were necessarily intended or created to take on as much as we are expected to now. 

Dave: Yeah. I mean, you, we can take it all the way back, right? So the traditional roles. So much has changed in the last generations from our parents and our grandparents, right? Mm-hmm. And full disclosure, I'm like pro women.

I'm not just saying you [00:02:00] have three daughters too. I have three daughters. The majority of my team and staff are women in the real estate industry. It's two thirds women. Like I'm all for it. I just think I'm, I'm so pro-women that the take almost goes full circle 

Angie: mm-hmm. 

Dave: Of like the point of feminism. Was equal.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Which I'm all for, but what happened, and this is I think we're gonna get into, is how it became an everything role. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And how quickly things have changed from our grandparents. I mean, just that, that quickly, like you're talking people who were born in their twenties. Right. 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: Versus our parents that were born in the fifties and the sixties.

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: Right. Versus us born in like the late seventies and the late eighties. Like this is until we are now, like, even now it's hot, but hot button topic, right? Mm-hmm. How, what genders are there? Two genders? Are there multiple genders like. These roles, the the lines have been completely blurred. [00:03:00] 

Angie: Yeah. And I think if you take it into, and you look at fem feminism or these roles and you look at it as energies instead of genders.

Right. I think it has, it's much easier to digest because you know, you and I not disagree. I disagree with that 

Dave: though. 

Angie: Okay. 

Dave: I know you always go back to masculine and feminine energy. Yeah. And I get that. That being said. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And then this is, maybe we're jumping right into the fire on this. A woman has the child.

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: A woman's body is built differently than a man's. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Regardless, you wanna start with the, the true masculine energy is, you know, being able to plant the seed. 

Angie: Yep. And 

Dave: the, the true feminine energy is the mother 

Angie: and the nurturer. Yeah, exactly. 

Dave: Mother earth, you know, like, so I think I'm with you on that, but, um, I'm gonna push back like.

I, I know you like going back and forth saying you have so much masculine energy and whatnot. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Like, that doesn't mean I have feminine energy. 

Angie: Oh, you do have feminine energy. [00:04:00] I 

Dave: understand, but like, I don't, I'm not really, like, I don't know why I'm being defensive about it today. Like, it's 

Angie: defensive, it's 

Dave: triggering 

Angie: Dan, 

Dave: so right here in the moment.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: It's happening, 

Angie: right? 

Dave: Yeah. Because you're trying to show up masculine. 

Angie: But you've admitted though, before that you've had feminine I a hundred 

Dave: percent. But like, 

Angie: and and you're, you're sensitive. That's a feminine quality. 

Dave: Empathetic. 

Angie: Empathetic. 

Dave: Yes. Which is ironic the way I look. Yeah. See that's the duality.

You look like you're feminine. 'cause natural beauty. Things like that, but you have a lot of masculine energy. I look like I'm super masculine, but I have that duality right here in the moment. This, this is what happened in the beginning of our marriage. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Right. Is it 

Angie: happening again? 

Dave: It always gonna happen.

No, I know, because what happens is like if you show up as an alpha 

Angie: mm-hmm. Then we butt heads like that. Yeah. It's 

Dave: if, if our alpha isn't. Isn't going in the same like shared direction. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: We're gonna run into problems. Right? Like you just, that's what happened. You tried to alpha [00:05:00] the moment and I was like, Nope, I'll fucking out.

How 

Angie: did I try to alpha the moment you 

Dave: just did, you were like, you went right into your groove of like, well, I have the masculine energy. Like, I 

Angie: didn't say I had the, where were going a little bit. No, it wasn't, it was saying that every. Energy, which were all energies, right? Yeah. They have masculine and feminine, a 

Dave: hundred percent 

Angie: energy.

Yeah, and if you would've listened to my actual point, 

Dave: here we go. 

Angie: The whole point was that there's default, right? Like your default is going into your masculine. When my default goes into my masculine, that's when we actually do, but heads, yep. Or if you go into your feminine, I feel like it's almost like a weakness in a lot of ways.

Subconsciously, of course. Like not even consciously thinking and then I go into attack mode and get even more masculine. Which, 

Dave: which that's, I think that's why I got defensive. 'cause I keep looking at that clip 

Angie: mm-hmm. 

Dave: Of you talking like that and it, I'm like, it just makes me 

Angie: of what clip? 

Dave: There's a clip from one of the other episodes of you talking about, I go in attack mode with the masculine energy and it, oh yeah, it was the [00:06:00] first 

Angie: episode.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Dave: So this is great. We didn't plan this. This is exactly what is happening in modern day relationships, right? Yeah. Because women are rising. 

Angie: They are, 

Dave: and it's beautiful, but men are like, I'm out. 

Angie: Yes, 

Dave: they're wrong in a lot of sense because being a man is rising even higher, not necessarily trying to out.

Do a woman, but to be a man, I believe to have that king mentality or a Lion King mentality with a lion s, you almost have to bring an energy that not necessarily bigger, 

Angie: it's just different. 

Dave: Yes. 

Angie: And I've told you that from the very beginning is like, I know I have a lot of masculine qualities with careers and with money and personality traits, things like that.

But I've always told you that like, I want a protector, I want a provider. Yeah. I want a stable like foundation that I can rely on that can, [00:07:00] you know, take care of my emotions and listen and things. But here's the, all of those things. Here's 

Dave: the uniqueness though. Most women like you 

Angie: mm-hmm. 

Dave: Have men that are not at their level.

Angie: That's a fair assessment in a lot of ways. Most 

Dave: men can't handle women like you. There's very few times as two stars of the show. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right? 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And so what I've seen is in a lot of your circles, very rarely there's a man who is their equal or running just as fast running side by side. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Or maybe they're doing it a different way.

Angie: Right, 

Dave: right. And I think that is somewhat the uniqueness of us. And I don't know if we're unicorns or if that's something that people can do. Across the board. Mm-hmm. Right. So let's, let's, this is beautiful that it, we, it went here, right? That we're doing it in the moment. When we started, when we were dating, it was fine.

But [00:08:00] you were already like a producing real estate agent. You were making your own money. You came out here on your own. Our stories had so much similarity, so much synergy. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: It was like, in some ways I met myself as a woman. 

Angie: Yeah. But. To go. I mean, this is fairly deep and I don't even know if I'm gonna explain it right, but I think those qualities that I was possessing, I was almost forced to be, to have those qualities, right?

To make my own money, to do my own thing, to make my own choices, to be so fucking strong that nobody can break me. 

Dave: Yep. 

Angie: And. Over the course of our relationship, I've had to try and cont continue to try to break down those walls because I don't necessarily want that. My nature is not to be masculine and be like this interesting protector and this whatever.

I was taught that because of what I went through as in my teenage years. Right, and society, all your women [00:09:00] 

Dave: role models. I mean, I, 

Angie: and they were very strong like that. 

Dave: Yeah. 

Angie: Right. But like, when I think about it, I'm like, no, I want, and, and Jess has taught me a lot, my coach right now, Jessica's why, like she's, she talks a lot about that.

Like women weren't necessarily meant to hustle, grind, provide, do all of this. Like women are just made differently. We work through cycles. We need a lot of rest and relaxation and self care and like nurture ourselves to just even give ourselves to other people. 

Dave: But that is. Completely counter to what you're just saying.

Angie: No, that's, I'm saying that I'm, I'm in a, I'm in a transition of trying to learn to get back to that, yeah. I'm in a, like a remembering like, wait a minute, I don't have to do this. Like, or I can do it with a different intent, like some ease and it doesn't have to be so strenuous and it doesn't have to exhaust me and get to burnout out.

You know what I think 

Dave: the problem is? Hmm. I think for too long, masculine energy. Was the only one associated with strength. 'cause it was brute force. 

Angie: Yep. Strength and success. 

Dave: [00:10:00] Exactly. Whereas like strength and success shows up in so many ways. Mm-hmm. And that's where like, I don't know, I think women were being gaslit in in some ways when they were like, it's just as important to stay home with the kids and be cook and stuff like that.

Like no wo a lot of women didn't want to hear that. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Right? Yeah. Like barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen they didn't wanna hear that shit, which. Guess what? I wouldn't want my, my, my girls to, to do that. 

Angie: Right. 

Dave: But that was the, back then, like my great-grandmother, my grandmother, it was all about what's the next meal and how do I keep the family together?

Mm-hmm. And right. And there was something really foundationally strong about that. 

Angie: Well, it kept everything up. I mean, the girls tell me all the time, like when I leave town, they're like, oh shit, here we go. This is gonna be crazy for a couple days. Or I gotta take on this role or whatever. But I think that 

Dave: now they don't have to take on shit.

Angie: Oh, please. They, they do a little bit just because like it's 

Dave: because I have a hard time doing a, a high pony. 

Angie: That's not all the way true. I 

Dave: bathed [00:11:00] Gigi. We had fun. That was good. We had no problems. Like the only thing that's totally different. See, you're trying to fucking, I'm 

Angie: not, yeah. What my whole point of going in there is that I think that if people like.

Love and appreciate what they're doing, right? Like if that brings them joy and that they feel like they're contributing in that way, then that's what they should do, is they should stay home and do all of those things. I tried that and I felt like. I just needed more, I just needed more stimulation in my life.

Dave: And I, and I think that's more of like having a purpose and a calling. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right? Yeah. And that necessarily, and we've unfortunately as a society have equated a purpose and a calling with making money. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Versus like, this is what, what's true fulfillment. 

Angie: Right. 

Dave: You know, and fulfillment doesn't necessarily equal cash.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And that's, that's the lie we've been told. But if we take it back like just a historical context, like it's only been a hundred years since women have been able to vote. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Right. Like the sixties [00:12:00] was like Title IX and then then abortion rights, which has changed even most recently. 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: Like, it was like a second class citizen for a while here.

And it's, it's more, it's newer 

Angie: mm-hmm. 

Dave: Than we have. We, I think we take for granted. 

Angie: Oh, totally. 

Dave: Right. But how quickly. A hundred years, right? A century. 

Angie: Yeah. And how quickly can it be reversed too? That's a whole nother episode, but yes. 

Dave: And that's where the pendulum swings. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Right. And so I think the lie that women were told was, you now have to be great at everything.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: It's like all the feminine qualities and all the masculine qualities, all 

Angie: the do. It's the do it all are the super women. 

Dave: That, I think that's a raw deal. That's where I'm like, that's kind of what prompted this episode. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Right? Like you gotta make money, you gotta be, you know, up for sex. You gotta cook in the [00:13:00] kitchen, you gotta be a mom.

Like it. There's a lot. Yeah. 

Angie: I think about the, um, there's a couple of reels where it's like the woman has the face mask on and she's walking on her treadmill and she's trying to cook and she's trying to clean and she's throwing the kids something and it's like. I mean, and that's without even working, right?

She's like trying to take care of herself while trying to take care of everybody else, and yet it's like this nev, it's this a true rat race. It's never ending. 

Dave: I think even you sometimes get resentment of women that don't work and they feel like they can't get anything done too. Mm-hmm. 

Angie: Right? Mm-hmm.

Dave: That's a capacity game, 

Angie: right? 

Dave: Right. And so I, I think you're, a lot of women are running around like, shit, I feel like I'm doing a lot and not doing anything great. Mm-hmm. 

Angie: There's a 

Dave: lot of shame and a lot of guilt. And then they don't wanna rise too high because their husbands or their significant others aren't rising.

So now they have to hold emotions for other people. Like, I think that's the trap. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. And 

Dave: I think a lot of men are like, shit, if they don't need me for anything, [00:14:00] if I don't, if I don't go out there and kill the buffalo and bring home, you know, the money. 

Angie: Yeah. And they 

Dave: don't need me to have sex and have kids like.

You know, my coach Garrett always says, men essentially just wanna be paid and laid. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And it's not, what he means by that is like laid is like, that's our version of being seen. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Being heard, being rewarded. Right? 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: That's like validation and paid, that's like providing, protecting, right. That is our primal state.

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: And you take that away from a man, he's like, what's the point? 

Angie: Yeah, a hundred percent. And you, I feel like a lot of women, a lot of my friends even, it's like they don't, they are fully capable of living their best lives on their own. They don't need a man for all of that stuff. 'cause they've never been shown.

Dave: Do you think it's just, you think it's your, you think your friends have all gravitated towards each other like that? Or you think this is a Midwest thing because? Your family has, like, [00:15:00] especially your mom's side, has like a lot of like masculine energy. Mm-hmm. Like they're, they take care of themselves.

Right. And then your friend group, they have a lot of alpha energy. You think it's because you guys have gravitated towards each other? Or do you think that is something about, 

Angie: I don't know. I mean, even all the friend groups I'm in like now and the people I meet, I feel like it's a lot of women. Like I'm around a lot of strong women.

Whether they work or they don't work, like, yeah. The women I'm around, I, I can't really think of many that are just like these, these people that are just like, they're either wanting more, they're doing this all like they're strong fucking women. Strong in personalities, strong in opinions, strong in like, just everything.

Dave: I mean, there is a crisis for men right now because women are more likely to be homeowners. Women are more likely to graduate college. Yep. Women are like. Rising. There's very few, 

Angie: even entrepreneurs, there's more and more women owned businesses and companies being led by women. I mean, yeah, there's a rise in all of this, which it's, it's [00:16:00] fucking time.

It's about time. Well that, because for so long it hasn't been that case. 

Dave: So again, that's a default setting. Yeah. Like you say that why? Why is it about time? Right? Like, so I'm, and I'm just playing devil's advocate here. No, I know, right? Yeah. Like it's interesting how you felt right into that trope. Like, just like that you're like, it's about time.

Mm-hmm. I am woman, hear me roar. Right? And I'm like, again, I'm seeing this from a lot of different angles. From a husband, from a father, right? 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: But that's been ingrained in us. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right. It's about time. Is it though? Why? 

Angie: Well, it depends on the person. It's, you know, it's such a specific thing I, because a lot of women, they don't wanna do certain things and they need their man to rise and take care of them, and they want that, right?

But then there's other women that are like, no, it's like, it's my turn. And that brings them joy. And I know a lot of those women, like I was a long time ago. When I was working, working, working, hustling, hustling, hustling. I had so much guilt and shame about not being around for my kids or not being able to provide and [00:17:00] be a homemaker or whatever.

And I think that it all comes down to this balance, right? Like there's certain things that we've done in our life where I'm like, okay, I don't need to take on that load. We can hire that out, or we can take a step back from that. That has helped me become like, okay, I can give more of myself if I'm doing other things that I love and I'm passionate about.

Because I still do love working and I still do love contributing. 

Dave: You know? Would you, would you agree with this statement that every woman, a, a heterosexual woman, wants a man? Not that can dominate her, but that challenges the fuck out of her? 

Angie: I mean, from my frame, yes, because that's who I want, but I don't know, 

Dave: because even like the hardest women.

Again, I think you're a hard, you have a hardness to you that is, that is wrapped in such a softness. Mm-hmm. It's this weird duality, like you look have, like, you have a softness, right? Like you have a great spiritual aura, but there's a hard fucking, like, I mean, you've softened up over the years, but there, I used to fuck with you about being the ice cream because I, that's [00:18:00] where like, it would be considered, I have a more feminine energy because I'm an Italian loving, touching, right?

Mm-hmm. It's a cultural thing. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right. 

Angie: Yeah. I mean, I would say yes. I think most women do want that, for sure. I mean, from my standpoint, obviously, like I want to be a strong independent, I. Woman. Well, what did you say I want is the difference 

Dave: between me and the men that you've dated before me, because this is, I mean I could say it for you, but I just don't wanna put words in your mouth.

You basically said, you know, I ran circles around every man I've dated and I eat them alive. 

Angie: Yeah. In a lot of cases, and listen, there's definitely been relationships. There's a couple of relationships where there was tons of intelligence and that's what like really attracted me to that person or. They were super successful in one area or they stepped up in another.

But yeah, I mean, most of them it was like not only are you not educated and you sound like an idiot, like you're not providing, you're not contributing anything. Like 

Dave: what's interesting is that [00:19:00] the darkest side of me, the one that sometimes I can't even control, is one of the things I wouldn't say that necessarily turns you on, but is one of the reasons why like.

There's a respect, not that I would point it at you. Mm-hmm. But do, does that make sense? Totally. Like there's that dark, like again, one of my coaches saying a dark warrior part, right? Yeah. Of just reading a book, like being a true leader is a dark art. Like there's that part mm-hmm. Where you know, I could be as feminine, loving, whatever you want to call it, relaxed.

But then I can blowtorch everybody in one second. 

Angie: Yeah. And that to me is kind of hot. 

Dave: Which is fucking insane. That could be, that could be very dangerous. 

Angie: It could be very dangerous. But in my brain, I'm looking at it as like, I always go back to that video of the lion, the lioness. Yeah. And she's getting attacked by these hyenas and like they're nipping at her and they're kind of biting her and whatever, and there's like 

Dave: 15.

So rather than tell that story again. Okay. What about that video does it for you? 

Angie: Because I just feel like it's a, it's like. Y [00:20:00] you, I don't even know how to explain it in words, but, 'cause 

Dave: it's a strong lioness. This, this empowered female. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: That doesn't necessarily need protection, but when things get crazy, out comes the fucking Lion King.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: That like, he may not even want to be bothered right now, but the minute he sees 

Angie: Yeah. Or there's a threat. Yeah. He's a woman and his 

Dave: kids or someone he is going. To decimate everybody. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: So there's the balance, right? So really if we take this full circle, women still want to be protected. 

Angie: A hundred percent.

Dave: I understand you're saying a hundred percent, but there's a lot of women, I think would have a hard time, like remember when feminism got so distorted that it was like, don't even open a door for me. How fucking ridiculous that was. 'cause they didn't want, yeah, like, oh, like there's just a man having class and being a gentleman and wanting to take care of people.

Like not only would I open a door [00:21:00] for a woman, I'd also open a door for a man, like, you know what I mean? 

Angie: I, I think, and there's an overcorrection there. I mean, I even have, there's people in my life that don't have men in their lives, and the reason is, is I, because I, or I think it's because they haven't had a man step up like that.

Because if they did, I think that that would be an attractive quality. And I think they'd be like, okay, this is like actually something I like. But nobody's ever, they've never experienced that. 'cause it's, it's very rare, I believe, to find, 

Dave: and even in, I don't know why this popped in my mind, but I don't give a shit.

Even in lesbian relationships, there's, there's still an insertion. Yeah. Of, of the 

Angie: masculine energy 

Dave: of a or a phallic, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like there's still, uh, like a phallic member inside of this relationship. Well, 

Angie: in all homosexual, re, re relationship is, that's the case there. There's a giver and the taker.

Exactly. There's a masculine and feminine energy, and I think that that's the duality of everything. There's the yang and the yang, and if you don't have that, that's where I think that. That's where every time we've had issues. So lemme ask you a weird question. If [00:22:00] you're, it's because you've gotten into your feminine and I'm in my feminine, or I've gotten into my masculine and you're in your masculine.

I 

Dave: think it's most of 'em we're both in our masculine. If you were in a lesbian relationship, would you be the giver of the taker? 

Angie: That's a great question and I'm really not sure. 

Dave: You see, 'cause if I always, I think 

Angie: I would be the, I would be the taker. 

Dave: That's good. 

Angie: Yeah, 

Dave: because I always feel like if I stuck in prison, I'd have to find a really pretty guy and I would be the giver.

Yeah. Right. Well, 

Angie: because I like, if I look at lesbian women, 

Dave: yeah. 

Angie: I don't look at the, the feminine as being like, oh, that's attractive. It's like, it's the heart of women. The girl on lions Really? The woman on lioness, the, that's like the not, yeah, not the one. No, no. 

Dave: She's gorgeous with the shaved side with the short 

Angie: hair.

Like if I was a lesbian, that's the type of lesbian I'd be with. Wow. Yeah. Like a very masculine lesbian. So 

Dave: you'd be like, I guess in and you'd be a bottom. 

Angie: Correct. And I would 

Dave: be a top. 

Angie: Correct. So, so we're in our, so we got something 

Dave: good, the 

Angie: Right, right roles 

Dave: in our relationship. I'm given you taking Alright.

At least we got that. Fuck after for 15 years. [00:23:00] We're good. That whole episode to get there. No PG in my life. Uhuh. I don't want anything. Nothing happening. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Um, beautiful. It's interesting. Mm-hmm. It's interesting where way to go with this because. You know, then there's this, like, this epidemic of high quality women have very few choices.

Mm-hmm. There's very few high value, high quality men. This is the thing I worry about the most for our girls. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: That, you know, they put me on a pedestal. They see the way that I treat you. 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: And I'm like finding, and I'm not saying that you marry your father, but finding someone like me is a double-edged sword as well.

Mm-hmm. Because it could potentially be someone like who I am can go very, like I could, as I had just as much a chance to be an entrepreneur as I did, to be like a criminal. 

Angie: Yeah. You 

Dave: get what I'm saying? 

Angie: But think about it, I, I married a lot of my dad's qualities 

Dave: a hundred percent. [00:24:00] You have a 

Angie: ton of my dad's qualities.

I mean, he doesn't talk as much as you, but he's incredibly intelligent. He's super stoic. He's very masculine like. Those are things that, you know, just naturally I think 

Dave: that's why we get along. Yeah. As a mutual respect. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right? Mm-hmm. And he's an independent thinker. Yep. I mean, I can only hope, but that's the problem with women.

That's why women are doing it on their own. Mm-hmm. Because they're like, shit, there's only a few men like this. We're all vying for that. Man. You gotta hope that that man, the one who is like the high quality, doesn't just look at this as an opportunity to sleep with as many women as possible. And 'cause he has so much power in this realm.

Like this is what's interesting. I. If we ever broke up, like it would be easy for you to find a man, but I would have more options. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. I agree. 

Dave: That's what's wild. There's more high quality women out there 

Angie: mm-hmm. Than 

Dave: there are high quality men, and so you got these high quality women that are like, well, fuck it, I'll do it by myself.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Which is, which is ime. It [00:25:00] potentially messes up the apple cart. Now, if you believe that we need balance in this world, if you're one of those people, you're like, we got a problem. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: If you feel like this is the time of women and women don't need men, then you don't have a problem. I just think that there's, yeah, I think if you want to go energetically the whole way, I think there needs to be a balance of masculine and feminine energy in this universe with God, however you wanna call it.

Mm-hmm. There has to be the yin yang. There has to be that polarity. Right. The plus, the minus, however you wanna put it. Yeah. 

Angie: And I think for so long it's been so much the, uh, the, the balance has been. So shifted towards the masculine in so many ways. I mean, even a, if you think about how we treat our planet, right?

It's just so masculine. It's so like, yeah, that's a 

Dave: great point. 

Angie: And it's like, I think that that's why we've had this rise in like this feminine energy is because women are like, all right, like move over. Like even Mother Earth, right? 

Dave: Are you confusing toxic masculinity versus masculinity? 

Angie: Not necessarily.

No, 

Dave: because I think there's a [00:26:00] masculine way to, like I'm just saying once, use the Earth without hurting it. 

Angie: A a hundred percent. But that's the problem, is that it's not just the toxic, it's just because it was so tilted that direction. Yep. That it got off balance. And so now it's trying to balance itself out again.

Dave: Fair. That you got the Mad Men epi, you know, seasons or whatever the show. Mm-hmm. Where, you know, it's the typical, the men, they have, you know, an Italian, it's the, or the mistress and the. The woman had nothing to, you know, they couldn't say anything. They didn't even know about it. Mm-hmm. You know, that's when it was completely, you know, it almost like, and I don't believe you should treat kids like this, let alone women seen and not heard.

Like that's, 

Angie: yeah. 

Dave: That was really outta balance, which I believe created the shift. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: But like the thing with society and politics for me right now, which is the issue, we overcorrect everything 

Angie: right. 

Dave: Like toxic masculinity was a major problem. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And so rather than just get the toxic at it, they tried to pull all the [00:27:00] masculinity out.

Angie: Right. So 

Dave: then it went too much feminine, or you can't say this and that. The whole woke. The woke. Great intentions. Great intentions, you know, like, but people are assholes. You gotta just deal with it. Right? Yep. And so then instead of like going back to the middle common sense, yeah, we're 

Angie: definitely going, now 

Dave: we're going back to toxic masculine.

Like it's just. And I 

Angie: think that's why you worry for our girls is because the, it's swinging so far the other direction that, okay, where's the balance gonna be there? You know? 

Dave: Yes. 

Angie: And that's a really, it's a great point. It's a great, I mean, it's interesting 'cause even when you said a woman can just do it all on their own, I'm, I'm curious how many women feel like they're doing it all on their own and have a man in their life.

Dave: Yeah. 

Angie: Right. Because they still feel like they're doing it alone. 

Dave: And lemme let me be clear. You know, any man that thinks he's a victim. Is a fucking pussy. Like, I'll just say that straight out like Uhuh, like no one's saying that, you know, you can't rise up. I don't want to hear like, oh, it's all against men.

You've had every, every opportunity in the world. Mm-hmm. To [00:28:00] get your shit together, have a greater purpose, and meet your woman where she's at. Mm-hmm. Rather than try to undermine and sabotage her because you can't figure it out. And her arising is like a mirror for you of. What you can't do. Mm-hmm. Like capping somebody else in any other cir in any circumstance to make you still feel better about your failures.

Yep. And your inability to rise is unacceptable. 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: 100%. And that's why I have a calling to like lead men. But these, a lot of these leadership of men things, they overcorrect them too. 'cause they're trying to get out that tiger again. They're trying like that primal state. Yeah. I've been in that game, right?

Yeah. Where you're like, next thing you know, you're like. Fighting somebody. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: And I'm like, shit, am I the last generation that actually got in the fistfights? Like, thank God I don't have a son. I mean, I joke about this, I'm full disclosure, I wouldn't do this, but I was like, if my son made it to like 10 years old without being punched in the face, I cold clock his at.

No, I, you know what I mean? I wouldn't. Yeah. But [00:29:00] like, I think there's something about being punched in the face or the feeling of like before you get into a fight where like. You almost wanna cry 'cause it's so much like, I think yeah, men need to feel that. 

Angie: I agree. And that's the beauty. And I think hopefully that's where we can find some balance.

Because as many things as I'm seeing, as far as like women getting into their natural, like divine feminism, I. You know, world, there's a lot of those, those events that are doing the same for men and doing it in a way where it's not, they aren't getting that primal instinct coming out like the roars and the fights and the fists and the, the, the fire that's living within them, like sacred Sons is one that I, we just started following and they'd have a lot of different things at.

Like a lot of different activities and stuff. Well, even Warrior Warrior 

Dave: started out like that. Yeah. Right. That's what attracted me to it. Yeah. And there's a lot of men's movements, but some of them I think are horrible. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Right. They go too far. Yep. And what I don't wanna see is like these women movements going all this way, these men's movements going all this way.

Mm-hmm. And now we have even more of a gap. 

Angie: [00:30:00] Yep. 

Dave: Right? 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Like the, the game is to rise together. 

Angie: Yeah. And I think the best example that I've seen as far as a seminar or an event that we've seen with this, 

Dave: I know where you're going with this. It's always, it's 

Angie: the, it's the goat, it's the, it's the king.

Dave: He's the goat. 

Angie: He is the goat. But Tony Robbins, date with Destiny. Yeah. Tony, Tony Robbins. The, the day where it was about our relationship, which we actually almost broke up over, but. I remember like So you wanna set 

Dave: the frame correctly? Like we've barely married a month. 

Angie: Yeah. We go to Date with Destiny, I think in Palm Springs or something.

Right? Palm 

Dave: Springs right around my birthday. Yep. It was like December 12th. We got married November 6th and we were on a high. We were like, this gonna be fucking amazing. And Date With Destiny takes you through every relationship. The relationship with yourself. Yep. The relationship with your parents.

It's six to seven days of. 16 hour days. Full immersion. Yes. Very few. Very little eating. Right. It's on. And we get to the day of like relationships and we're like, we got this. We're newlyweds. Yeah. This is no problem. Great. And then [00:31:00] what ha, I forgot what we even thought about. 

Angie: Okay. So I don't know what we were fighting.

It was just all the things that we were doing. He was saying 

Dave: like, I remember he brought somebody out. This. He was from like Romania or something. I remember this like, oh, I do too. So clearly he 

Angie: was such a wuss 

Dave: and he was like, oh, that's so interesting. You said he is like, I love this woman. And Tony was doing Tony things, right?

Mm-hmm. He was like, you know, he is almost tricking him and going, what if you just showed up for this woman and gave her all the love in the world, regardless of how cold she is to you for a full year, and you just port her with love, not expecting anything in return. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Flowers and this, 'cause the guy had all these stories, right.

How she wouldn't have sex with him. Yep. And how she was cold and that's the culture and 

Angie: distant and Yeah. And 

Dave: he was like, and after a year, if she doesn't show up the way you want her to, then at least you could feel like you've done everything you could. And I, and in hindsight, I mean, you're talking 14, 15 years ago.

Mm-hmm. It's almost impossible for him to show up like that without her. Being completely like 

Angie: blossoming in some way. Yeah, like a flower. Yeah. [00:32:00] 

Dave: Right. And so what he was saying is like, when you're pissed at each other, don't go the other way. Right? Mm-hmm. And we did it that night and we were so mad. 

Angie: We packed up our shit.

Dave: I didn't even pack up my shit. I, we 

Angie: were going, we were packing up our stuff to leave. I 

Dave: took the 

Angie: suitcase and threw it against the wall 

Dave: and threw a huge suitcase against the side of the wall of the hotel. And then we went 

Angie: to bed 'cause it was like 1:00 AM and we were like, all right, well, we can't leave now.

Dave: And then the next day we got through it. 

Angie: Didn't we have like crazy sex that night or the night after? 

Dave: At the night after you did, because now we did what he said. Okay. 

Angie: So yeah. So that day was, I mean, it's such a beautiful experience. It like gives me chills thinking about it. But he had the men stand up and all the women are sitting down and he has the men stand up and they go through this whole exercise and they're like 

Dave: warrior, 

Angie: primal screaming.

He's like, like 

Dave: brave heart and gladiator music on, oh my God's so fucking wild. And he's like, I got chills too. He's like, you, you've run through a fucking wall. Yeah. 

Angie: And it was wild. It was wild. And then the women stand up and sage comes on and it's [00:33:00] very feminine and it's very, which is something I hadn't experienced, that type of experience.

It was almost like women would 

Dave: have an orgasms in the moment. Moment. Oh my God. 

Angie: So all the women stand up and we're just dancing and the lights are down and we're like, and we're not even together. We're completely, it's separate. Yep. Apart of like thousands of people. And I'm like, we're just dancing by these strangers and our eyes are closed and we're feeling the music.

And it just, it was. So powerful to step into that feminine power and even hear the masculine power. I'm pretty sure with the, the people that he did the example with once he had the guy scream. Yeah. You could almost see her face change and she was like, there's my man. Yep. Like where the fuck was he? 

Dave: Yep.

He found, you know what I mean? Yes. Because it, like, he found some fucking keone he found, she's like, 

Angie: okay. And 

Dave: she took him. Yep. Like it's, it's wild. You know? It reminds me of, um, you know what I think is the healthiest relationship. I know you haven't watched a movie a lot. But Neo and Trinity, 

Angie: is that the matrix?

Dave: Yeah. [00:34:00] Trinity. And like, I didn't even think about this recently. Neo is just words, um, scrambled for the one. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Trinity is the divine. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. Trinity. 

Dave: And she's so strong. And so feminine that is actually like, that to me is like a great avatar. 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: Of what it could be. But Neo's the one, and Trinity is like, she encompasses all three parts.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: It is this like equal but different and it really requires both people rising. Right. And so it's this thing we call in our relationship where one is outgrowing the other. Are you gonna like just give up? 

Angie: Mm-hmm. Or are you 

Dave: gonna rise with that person? And I think that's what the problem with feminism now, women are very confused.

Very confused. 'cause if they're not working, they have guilt about not working. 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: If they're not taking care of their kids, they have guilt about not taking their kids. 

Angie: Yeah. Or if they're working, they have guilt about not taking care of their kids. 

Dave: Well look about this. Right. So you talked about when you first started dating, I think this was me being ahead of my time.

When you, when we had that [00:35:00] conversation, you were like, I don't wanna stay home with the kids. I don't want to cook and clean. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. And I'm 

Dave: like, well. We gotta make enough money to get someone to do it 

Angie: because you ain't doing it either. I'm not 

Dave: fucking doing it either. Yeah. And some men would've been like, I can do it.

Angie: Right. 

Dave: And I don't wanna make a gross, gross generalization here. I think if the man takes on too much of the feminine roles, then eventually the woman will resent the fuck out of him and never want to have sex with him again. 

Angie: Mm. I feel like that's a fair statement. 

Dave: Like, you gotta take that feminine role and turn it into a masculine way.

You better, like, I always joke, like if I was a Stayat home dad, I'd be doing videos on how to be the best fucking stay at home dad. Yeah. I'd be ripped to shreds and I'd be banging my wife like, it's like, like a stay-at-home dad never banged his wife. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, like 

Angie: No, totally. I agree with you.

'cause if it was, if it was our roles, I mean for me personally mm-hmm. If that was the case, I would, I wouldn't. Find it attractive that you were just doing that? I don't think what, I mean any woman 

Dave: does, I just don't. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And I don't think any man finds his wife [00:36:00] attractive if she doesn't have purpose. A man that wants his wife not to rise means that he's so insecure that he can't handle anyone around him.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: That is a weak man. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: I want a woman that will run with me. 

Angie: Yep. That's 

Dave: why we worked out so well. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Right. I can't, I, I, if it's boring to my dick, won't even get hard. If the woman is like, no purpose, no life, no anything, and it's not even money. 

Angie: Yeah. I 

Dave: just want someone that are excited about something.

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: That's why even though I'm not a big drinker, when people are drunk around me, it's almost like they're like letting their true selves out and I get interested. 

Angie: Yeah, totally. 

Dave: Right, because they're repressing it so much. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: I think that's the game. Everybody is like pushed down, pushed down, pushed down.

If you wanna repress somebody else, you're repressing yourself. 'cause you're capping yourself. 'cause you're limiting the growth of not only yourself, but you're limiting the growth of the relationships and the things around you, which is in in essence, limiting you. And I think that's why the balance, that's why [00:37:00] feminism was needed so much.

Because you had, you needed this coming out party for women. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: But men, some men forgot to fucking rise with them. 

Angie: Yeah. They're gonna have to step up even more so now. 

Dave: And women need to stop weaponizing it too though. They need to realize though that. They need the men. Yeah. They need the help. 

Angie: And I think that that's where the balance comes, right, is like even, even in our relationship, I've found that I feel like I can produce more.

I can give more of myself. I can be more of myself. I feel better. I feel more connected to you. If I can find balance in my feminine and my masculine, right? If I can do my masculine thing with ease and not have to stress and not have to hustle, and not have to grind, so I don't feel like I'm gonna burn, getting burnt out, I feel like it gives me, and it allows me to step into that like feminine power, that then it's better for our connection.

It's better for our children. It's better for yes. You know, even like moving into this house, like I've always fucking hated cooking, hated it. But now, like I found this like sense of like, wait a minute, like I [00:38:00] can enjoy this. There's a 

Dave: piece to it too. It, 

Angie: uh, yes, exactly. Mm-hmm. And I think that. It's really about finding those things that light you up.

Like you said, you have to have purpose, you have to have meaning, you have to have passion for certain things. 'cause if you do, then I feel like it just, the energy flows so much different and it works with both mess masculine and feminine. Right. Like when you're working and your feel like when you're coaching, that's very masculine.

Dave: Yep. 

Angie: But that's when I'm most attracted to you. Yep. I'm like, holy shit. I am definitely my, is living in his flow most 

Dave: masculine state. Yeah. When I'm in that. 

Angie: Exactly, because 

Dave: I'm, I'm in my natural state. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: There's no apology. There's no permission needed. 

Angie: And it's all truth and it's, it's sometimes the hard truth, but it's like it's fucking beautiful.

I even feel like I'm 

Dave: in it right now. I noticed some of the things I said. I was like, Hmm, don't care. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right. Yep. And so that brings us full circle to the whole reason why we're here in the first place of the 10 year marriage. This part of both the masculine, the man and the women, the woman, the feminine and the masculine.

They both need to grow. Yeah. They [00:39:00] both have to. Have some purpose, some future that is forcing them to get uncomfortable and get excited and like shake shit up. That's what gets people going and you have the best sex is when you're the most at peace with yourself. When you love yourself the most. 'cause then you're able to open it up.

Yeah. You're the best parent when you're at most peace with yourself. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: You know, you show up in all of these roles. When you are growing yourself, but you need to have some fucking adversity. You need to have something that gets you uncomfortable because that is how you grow. Mm-hmm. 

Angie: And that's 

Dave: what keeps life alive.

Angie: What is that? Um, I just watched it. You shared it too. It was Joe Dispenza. Talking about, 

Dave: he was talking about self-worth. 

Angie: Yeah. And it's a lot like that, right? Yeah. If you feel like you're worthy enough and you could take care of yourself enough and you can give more of yourself in that way. 

Dave: And there needed to be a moment in the past, women's right to Vote, that was bullshit.

Angie: Mm-hmm. Not a 

Dave: second class citizen. Same thing that [00:40:00] like minorities went through and whatnot, right? Yep. And then they needed to have that feeling of like, it's not even like there's a validation, but like the rule Title ix. Right. Title ix, women's sports and women's Rights, like it's just leveling the playing field.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: But that doesn't mean it's just because it's there that the role has changed. And I'm curious to watch front row seed on this, what the future looks like for you, because I think a lot of these things you're doing now, even the way you dress today and, and these experiences you, you've gone through recently.

Has been a return to the feminine and how that's gonna 'cause it's gonna require you being more vulnerable. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. Which I feel like I am, I've gotten a lot better at being vulnerable 

Dave: and I think our connection is, 

Angie: yeah. 

Dave: Greater than it's ever been. 

Angie: And I wanna show our kids that it's okay to have both of those things.

You know, to be strong, independent, but also want a man to take care of you and also be fully in your feminine power. 

Dave: And to [00:41:00] understand also how to treat a man. 'cause you also gotta treat a man, right? 

Angie: But men need to earn that fucking respect and that you see, 

Dave: here we go, here comes, here comes a penis. 

Angie: You, you just said 

Dave: I, I know, I'm joking.

You're right. 

Angie: You just said they do that a man needs to step up because a woman will admire and love and give that appreciation or whatever you wanna call it to a man if they're showing up. And they're stepping into their power. If they're not, 

Dave: I agree. 

Angie: Then do they deserve it at all? 

Dave: I, yes and no. 

Angie: Mm-hmm.

Dave: Sometimes a little encouragement and support goes a long fucking way and finding the right person. I tell every single man that I coach that is not in a loving relationship, that you find the right woman, it'll activate you like nothing else. Mm-hmm. It's an accelerator. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: It is a rocket ship of purpose.

All of a sudden you have. Something to go die for a woman worth it, especially in a relationship in the beginning of a relationship where it isn't about, oh, what I deserve [00:42:00] and what I'm no, in the beginning of a beautiful relationship is everyone just wants to give. Yeah, everybody wants to show up for the other person.

It's support, it's love, it's, that's why it's called dating, right? Like everyone's bringing the best foot forward and they're giving people the benefit of the doubt. Like that is a way to really like open somebody up. But you're right, they do have to earn it. 

Angie: Yeah. And you know the women, they have to also understand that women sometimes do feel like they're handling it all and they're doing it all.

And they have to be superwoman and a man being able to step in and being like, Hey, like I got this. Like, sometimes women just need to hear those things. And it's been for a long time. Like you just recently said something that I was like, wow. Like that made me feel like I could really let go a little bit because you're, you're verbalizing it and you're communicating that like for a long time you didn't.

And so I felt like I even had to hustle more and work more or do more. And you're like, babe, like I got it. Like, whatever I gotta do, like I, I'm gonna take care of it, you know? 

Dave: Yeah. But I was also supporting what you wanted. [00:43:00] I, I mean, we got comfortable in you. Being the head of one of the things we do.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And it being really beneficial to both of us. But like in the beginning, these weren't our goals. Yeah. You kept moving the goalposts. So I think communication is a very, very important thing. I mean, look, here we are 15 years later still, I. Figuring it out, 

Angie: and I think that's what people see in the possibility of the contract, the tenure contract, is because instead of somebody feeling like they have to give it their all and they have to do it all, they could be like, all right, this person's willing to contribute and step up here.

So I think that there's beauty about that. 

Dave: I guess at the end of the day, they truly have it all. You have to have a man and a woman with a ton of purpose.