Ep. 11 - Parenting Unplugged: Building Strong, Self-Reliant Kids

Parenting with Tough Love and Communication: A Deep Dive

In this episode of the 10 Year Marriage Podcast, hosts Dave and Angie Tina explore our unique parenting approach, emphasizing resilience, independence, and unconditional love. We discuss our two crucial parenting rules: ensuring our children know they are loved and supporting them unconditionally through mistakes and failures. We share personal anecdotes, reflecting on our upbringing and experiences with our three children, Ella, Lola, and Gigi. We delve into the importance of open communication, setting boundaries, and being present while balancing affection and discipline. The episode highlights the challenges and rewards of our parenting style, aiming to prepare our children for real-life situations while maintaining a strong, loving family bond.

00:00 Introduction and Parenting Philosophy

00:22 Welcome to the 10 Year Marriage Podcast

00:42 The Parenting Game: Building Resilience and Independence

00:54 Communicating Unconditional Love

01:48 Balancing Boundaries and Communication

03:32 Navigating Teenage Challenges

07:09 Reflecting on Our Own Upbringing

11:45 Different Parenting Styles and Values

19:19 The Impact of Environment on Children

20:42 Discussing Parental Traits

21:39 Navigating School Transitions

23:09 Resilience in the Face of Change

25:21 Tough Love and Parenting Challenges

28:44 Proud Parenting Moments

31:53 Balancing Discipline and Love

37:54 Final Takeaways on Parenting

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Transcript

Ep. 11 - Parenting_audio
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Angie: [00:00:00] You're three, go wipe your own ass, you know? Yep. Like, go get your own clothes on. Go make yourself a sandwich. Like go brush 

Dave: your teeth. You're not a helicopter parent. No. 

Angie: Like I'm the almost the opposite. You always say, well, if you're not gonna make your own dinner, like 

Dave: every woman from themselves in this house, right?

Yeah. 

Angie: I feel like it is building resilience. It is building independence, character, and Yes. And I feel like kids just don't have that these days. 

Dave: Hi, 

Angie: I'm Dave Tina. And I'm Angie. Tina. 

Dave: Welcome to the 10 year Marriage Podcast. 

Angie: On this podcast, we answer the question, what if your marriage came with a 10 year contract?

Dave: How would you show up if there was a deadline in your relationship? What would your life look like in the future? And how would you recommit every day 

Angie: come with us on this journey as we navigate as partners, entrepreneurs, and parents in this big life we've created. 

Dave: So we're gonna tackle this issue today, this topic.

I see. I even started with issue '

Angie: cause it's definitely a very forward facing issue for us right now. 

Dave: The parenting game. 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: You know, as much as I like to overcomplicate things, when I give parenting advice, I keep it simple. I have [00:01:00] two rules. You remember my rules? 

Angie: No. 

Dave: Make sure 

Angie: I probably should, but I don't 

Dave: make sure.

Well, you, I think you do it really well. Make sure that your kids know. That you love them. Yeah. And if you feel like you have to tell them five times, tell them 50. Like I even make it a game. Like, you know who loves you? I've said it to every single kid we've had. Gigi plays this game so well. Right? Who loves you?

She's like, like, daddy, mommy. Ella, Lola. And then she'll say, Gigi, which is beautiful too. 'cause you need to love yourself, I think is really underrated. Just communicating that I love you. I think of course parents love. Their kids. There's something about hearing it over and over and over and over again, and expressing that unconditional love.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: I'm always hesitant to talk about my parents 'cause I don't want them to feel bad or good, but I think this is a compliment to both of them. I know both of my parents loved me and loved me. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: [00:02:00] But my father was very communicative with it. My mother was not. It doesn't mean one loves me more than the other, but because of the communication, I've had some issues that I had to work through with my mom, and there's no doubt in my mind she's loved me ever deeply, but it just came out in a different way, sporadically emotionally.

Whereas my father just consistent almost, almost. Suffocating sometimes. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: Right. 

Angie: Yeah. You almost had that relationship when I met you that it was like a very, you guys were kind of crutches for each other in a lot of ways. 

Dave: Very codependent. Yeah. That's, that's the 

Angie: word I was looking for. It could have 

Dave: easily, we had to make sure we had our boundaries.

Mm-hmm. Right. And so, um, number one, love them so hard that they have zero doubt. And I think 'cause it's connected to number two 

Angie: mm-hmm. 

Dave: Is they need to know. That no matter how much they screw up, no matter how much they fail, no matter how disappointed they are in themselves, 'cause they're gonna screw up, they're gonna go through some hard [00:03:00] times that they know that we are there for them.

And I think it's hard for a child to truly believe that unless they feel that unconditional love. 'cause it's unconditional love without strings. God forbid one of our kids hurt someone really, really bad or killed them by accident. 'cause I doubt our. They would ever do it intentionally. Like I would help, you know, hide the body.

Like, there's no doubt my, like, I know people joke about it, but like, it's like 

Angie: extreme. I agree, but I, I think it's an extreme, like they 

Dave: need to know. I think this level of communication is why people, why kids and parents have issues is that, you know, I'm not gonna hide behind the thing that I know my kids are gonna have sex.

I know my kids are gonna do drugs. I know my kids are gonna make some mistakes. I did. You did? 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: I, I don't want them to double down on that mistake 'cause they don't feel comfortable talking to me about it. Yeah. 

Angie: That's the most important thing that we have is them telling us the truth. Being very open with them.[00:04:00] 

I mean, going back into our childhoods, I think that that's where I was, I didn't feel safe is having the conversation or having the communication and I always felt loved as well. Same thing. But I really, I think that that's one of the biggest things I talk to especially Ella about right now is like, listen, like.

We want you to have your first kiss. We want you to experience, we want you to have fun with your friends. But we also just need to know what's going on. Yeah. We wanna be the first person you call when you're leaving a party and you may have had a couple drinks, like get an Uber or whatever. I mean, you, even with drugs, we're like, Hey, call me.

I'll tell you which ones to take, which ones not to take. I mean, and a lot of people would look at our parenting style is that, and be like, what in the hell are you guys doing? Like, how could you, like, don't let them do that. They're gonna fucking do it anyways. You know, like, and it's like if we can be the support system for them Yep.

That to us is more important than trying to control the narrative where they're gonna experience and have these, these situations happen. Regardless, I 

Dave: think you [00:05:00] need to lean in and, you know, it's tough for me because, you know, we've done some other episodes where we're so aggressively certain that this works for us, that it makes people feel like.

Like it's, um, convicting them. Yeah. And it's not right, like this just works for us, but because I feel so certain that this works for us, that it's gonna come off that way. I want, especially girls, and I don't, not trying to be sexist with this, but the girls are the ones that can get pregnant, right? 

Angie: Mm-hmm.

Dave: And there's traffic, there's a lot of things. There's a different game. I mean, boys are their own issues too, but I want all these things to happen while they're still in my house. Rather than them when they're out on their own, we could just pretend that they're not gonna have sex. Or we can lean in and be like, I know they're gonna have sex.

Would I want it with weird protection if there's gonna be it or not? In. A shitty hotel or behi or at some someone else's house or in the back of a car, I'd prefer it happen in my house. Mm-hmm. 

Angie: And so 

Dave: maybe I'm being a little [00:06:00] controlling, but like I, if we're outta town or we just know that that weekend and we know what's going down, I'd rather that happen on my watch.

I rather she be open about the pros and cons and have expectations like. She already knows. Both of them know that. I'm like, in my perfect world, you're in high school, you've been dating the guy for a year, and it isn't just a conquest and you actually love each other, so at least you can look back and go, my first was done with beautiful intent.

Mm-hmm. Even though it's puppy love or whatever, like at least you have that. Now. I can't control everything. Yeah, but I'd rather it be that than their first weekend at college or some frat party being hammered and someone sleeps with her like I, yeah. You know what I mean? Like exactly. And so maybe we're too out there about it.

Same thing with drugs, like I think it's important to have conversations because they're gonna be exposed and drinking and things like that. I think the worst you make it. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And the more taboo, the more they're gonna [00:07:00] go towards it. Like some of Ella's friends, like she's so open, are gonna be fucking wild.

Angie: Oh yeah. I think that that's the thing is you don't wanna go. To one extreme or the other. It's parenting is just so crazy because nobody does it perfectly. Nobody does it, right? Mm-hmm. We talk about like how our kids are gonna grow up. They're still gonna have issues with how we parented, and they're still gonna remember that one time that mommy blew up, or Daddy blew up, or Daddy and mommy did this, or we gave them too much slack that it turned them into an addict or whatever.

What are, what are they gonna say 

Dave: about you? 

Angie: I mean, I can say more about what they can say about you than her say about me. 

Dave: Fine, fine. I'm open for it because I I got yours PE too. 

Angie: Well, yeah, I mean, Ella kind of says it sometimes. Now, both of them will, every once in a while they'll be like, oh, you know, daddy, he, he can't handle the kids or whatever.

Daddy wants to sit on his phone and on the couch or something and you know, you sure it's 

Dave: not you saying this or No, 

Angie: they say that all the time. Oh, really? Interesting. Yeah, but why, what are they gonna say about me? 

Dave: No, I [00:08:00] think, I think that's not what they're gonna say about me. I think they're gonna say my father was the one that was like less concerned about some of the small things, but then overdid it.

Yeah. On the big things. And they're gonna 

Angie: say the opposite about me. They're gonna be like, mom was a nagger and was telling like all these little things, but she never followed, followed through. They've told me that to my face. Yeah. Um, and you know, we knew we could get away with it with mom. 

Dave: Yeah. 

Angie: You know?

Dave: And. It's been proven that, you know, if I say this comment, this is a coaching comment, everyone answers it immediately. You ready? 

Angie: Hmm. 

Dave: Which is the one, your father, your mother, the one that you had the complicated relationship with? You don't have to answer it. No, 

Angie: I know, but I, 

Dave: everyone has an answer. 

Angie: Yeah, but I don't, I don't have a quick answer.

I have answers too, which I've worked on this in therapy, but which one did you want? Which one did you try to like make proud? 

Dave: That is another one that, yeah. So it's, we're saying the same thing. Yeah. So regardless, all three of our [00:09:00] kids mm-hmm. Are gonna, it's gonna be one of us, one or the 

Angie: other. Yeah. 

Dave: Right.

It, we could be the perfect parents. And so just accepting that. You know, you with your brother and sister, you have different experiences in the same household. Yeah. Yeah. It blows my mind. Like my dad, he has two sisters and two brothers. Three of them had one perspective of how 

Angie: they were raised. Yeah. And 

Dave: the other two completely different.

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Like three of them are like, my grandmother was like everything. Then the other two were like, no good. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: They're in the same house. Yeah. Right. Same house, different perspectives. And so if we just lean into that and go, no matter what we do, they're gonna have that. It's gonna be 

Angie: their frame anyways.

Yeah. And it is wild because even my grandma who was like my like role model and this like perfect person in all of my eyes, like my, my aunts were like. Oh no, she was a total bitch most of the time. You know what I mean? Or she was really hard on us for this. And I was like, no, she never treat. And she's like, that's they, they always said, that's [00:10:00] 'cause you're their grand or her grandchildren and you're not her kids.

And I was like, what? Different perspective? Yeah. What's totally different perspective. And even like, I mean there's a four age or four year age gap between me and my sister. And I could, I could. See how my sister was parented differently than they parented me. I mean, I just knew it, you know? And I knew that like, there were certain things.

I mean, she was definitely the one that tested the limits. And I was the one that was like, oh God, I wanna do everything right and don't wanna make anybody mad. But there are so many situations where I was like, she was the one getting yelled at, or she was the one that was kind of under attack in a way.

Dave: Yep. 

Angie: You know, and it was just like, but it's, it's wild too, because even the. The difference of my parents very, very different extremes. Like I feel like you and I parent fairly similar. Mm-hmm. My, my mom and my dad parented very differently in my perspective. And even though my dad was like the strict, the consistent, like, we, we [00:11:00] didn't wanna piss off dad.

'cause God forbid, you know, it was like you get a spanking after church after you mess around in church. Like, I don't even remember the times that he blew up because my mom, when she did it was like. A freaking bomb went off and it was like, holy shit. Like when she stopped on the highway and was like, get out of the car.

Like those are the times I remember because it happened so rare. Yep. And so it's wild that like, even though my dad was technically the more strict of, of the two of them, I remember the times with my mom that I got in trouble more because they were more like, oh my God. Like I, there were, didn't expect it.

Yeah. You know, there's a 

Dave: bigger difference between 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: But then I'm sure they parented different. When they were together versus when they were separated. Oh, a hundred percent. Right? 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Um, okay, so let's jump into our parenting, right? Mm-hmm. I'm very proud of us that we lasted to 13 years old with Ella to get a phone.

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: And we can spend a ton of time on why kids should have phones and shouldn't have phones and she, or social [00:12:00] media. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: But what I liked is where I don't think we have the same parenting styles, but I think we have the same values. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: If that makes sense. Because you are more likely to give in and friend zone them.

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Um, you're kind of in the middle. This is why it works out so beautifully. Like I am like the extremes and you're steady, Eddie. Right. Mm-hmm. You know, the phone is an interesting game because it's such a rite of passage for these kids. Mm-hmm. Right? They don't even, they just holding the phone. It's like the Starbucks and the phone.

Right. And the conversation was like, all the other kids have it. And you know, it's the same trope over and over again. Well, I don't really care what the other parents, but a lot of parents give in. Like there were friends of ours who were like on the path with us and then all of a sudden their kids got the phone.

Angie: Totally right. And who knows with Gigi we may just give in 'cause she's our third kid and we're like, possibly here we go. You know, 

Dave: possibly. But it. It was a deeper conversation. You [00:13:00] know, Ella, I think communicates fairly well and she was like, when people ask like what kind of parents you have, she'll say in one end that they're like the coolest, but on the other end they're the strictest.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And she, it's tough. It's almost like that tough love. It's very, I don't think enough people do this. And I think this is kind of uniqueness for you and I as parents, friends, leaders, we'll give you the world. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: But we expect it back and that's where I lose my shit. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Like I will give you everything, but if you don't respect me, I will blow torch you.

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: And so that's, I know I have to do a better job, but we are cool about having these conversations and we can be. Open and they can feel comfortable and we could talk to them like humans, but our expectation, our standard for them is higher. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right. And it's, I think it's different and difficult for a kid, but that's how I was raised.

My dad did this by pur on purpose. I think your parents did it because at a [00:14:00] necessity we both had to like. Grow up fairly quickly. Mm-hmm. Because my parents were divorced, mine from the get go, and then my mom went to Texas, yours at a, at an age where you were right in the pocket. Mm-hmm. So you had to kind of do your own thing.

So we were forced. And so I think that's what we do with our, I don't think that's what we do with our kids. 

Angie: Right. Before there were, there were definitely times where. Our kids are very independent. I was never the coddler or they always, I'm very affectionate with them. I tell them all the time how much I love them.

I have fun with them. I laugh with them. I'm super engaged, but I also do not like. You're three, go wipe your own ass, you know? Yep. Like, go get your own clothes on. Go make yourself a sandwich. Like go brush your teeth, go brush your teeth. Like there's, 

Dave: you're not a helicopter parent. 

Angie: No. Like, I'm almost the opposite.

Probably on the other extreme. Right. Where, um, well, 

Dave: they better figure out their own food or they're not gonna eat. Right. 

Angie: Well, that's what you always say. You always say, well, if you're not gonna make your own dinner, like you're not gonna eat tonight. 

Dave: Every man for themselves, every woman for [00:15:00] themselves in this house.

Right. Yeah. 

Angie: Yeah. And I, my argument back to that is that. I feel like it is building resilience. It is building independence, character, and Yes. And I feel like kids just don't have that these days and they can have 

Dave: conversations with adults. 

Angie: Right. And you know, that's where I think it's hard for me to kind of wrap my head, like when our kids don't respect us or when they.

Take advantage of us or when they talk back or, you know, not even that we have this authority over them, but like I've told our kids many a times, like, listen, I don't have all the answers to parenting you. I don't know half the time what the fuck I am doing. And it, it is hard and you will not understand it until you're a parent.

That I think is just the answer. Like, we parent differently because of how we were parented, you know? And like we may be doing it completely freaking wrong. We don't know. But I, I believe that what we're doing right now, or at least when we're conscious about what we're doing and we're not exploding one way or the other.

I think that that it's, that's a, 

Dave: that's a, for [00:16:00] everyone listening and watching, that's a like a subtle, passive aggressive dig at me for exploding, but continue. 

Angie: No, I explode just as much. 

Dave: Okay. Jen? 

Angie: I think it's about, like sometimes I literally tell Ella and Lola this. I'm like, sometimes when I'm driving in the car with you and I'm singing and we're singing loud and we're just being crazy.

I literally feel like I'm a teenager with you. Yeah. And it's weird to be like, holy shit, that's my daughter. Wait a minute, I gotta be the parent. You know? And I think that we don't do that often enough to be like, okay, we're just all figuring it out too. Like we are all kind of stuck in these different timeframes of our life and we're just doing the best we can.

Dave: I think that's, uh, that's fair. I think if we go back to the foundation of love and, and you know, support and respect, I mean think about the con the relationship I had with my father. Mm-hmm. It was many different roles, right? We were business partners, we were father, son, almost like brothers. You know, he was the best man of my, yeah, my wedding.

Like it was just the two of us for a while. So there's a lot of roles you play and there's a lot of balance, but that, that love And even with my [00:17:00] father, which is so ironic, I think you do this too, 'cause you're a lot like him. He has hard times with boundaries with people in his life, but not with me.

Angie: Mm-hmm. He'll 

Dave: go to war with me. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: And he, and I'm the one he loves the most, which is wild. Yeah. Because there's a standard and there's a, um, a level of accountability that he demands 

Angie: mm-hmm. From me 

Dave: as his son that he doesn't demand from anybody else, which he should probably be doing. Sorry, pops, he should probably be doing this.

A across the board. 

Angie: Right, 

Dave: right. As well, you've gotten so much better of your boundaries. Yeah. But you have that same level of respect, accountability, and expectation from me is what you have to have with your kids. Yeah. It can't just be love, love, love, love. Friendship, friendship. I'm here, you know, without the tough part.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And even though that ratio is five to one. Yeah. 

Angie: Right. 

Dave: I call it, you know, the one punch and the five hugs, because that's how people take it. Mm-hmm. To counteract it, there still needs to be the [00:18:00] punch. Mm-hmm. There still needs to be the, the truth. Right. Like Uhuh. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna, and there's a way to do it.

Right. There's a ton of different ways, but if you don't hold them accountable, you're setting 'em up for a total failure. Mm-hmm. And I'm, I'm not judging what other people do. Well, I guess I am, I look at other parents and I'm like, I'm just not willing to do that for my kids. Right. To cater to them. And maybe I'm wrong.

I just think that that's setting them up for unrealistic expectations. 

Angie: Right? Like 

Dave: one of the first things my dad say to me when I was a kid and this feels like such a generational thing, I'd be like, it's not fair daddy. And he would be like, life's not fair. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: That's a harsh freaking thing to say to a kid.

Angie: Yeah. Well, and it brings up the point where. When we were in the car one time and we were talking about our childhoods and just about like, you know, getting us to move here and certain issue things that we've gone through. And I think it was Lola that asked, like Lola 

Dave: was maybe eight or nine when she said, I remember where she was in the kitchen.

She was 

Angie: like, you know, do you have to have a hard [00:19:00] life to be successful? And it was like, holy shit. 

Dave: Very self-aware. Yeah. But then also being. An aware parent or an OR coach leader or dad. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: I was like, no, Lola, but you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable. 

Angie: Yeah. You gotta be willing, which was a great answer.

Dave: You gotta be willing to throw yourself in it. Mm-hmm. Right. Like the nature vir versus nurture study. Right. I'm just thinking about this. I didn't do the research for it, but. There's a study where they separated triplets at birth on purpose. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And they were raised in three different households. One like a really demanding like rich family.

Yeah. But like not there. And demanding expectations. One in a poor family and then one in like a middle class, but like very loving. And these three. These three identical twins ended up completely different. The environment you're in 

Angie: mm-hmm. Is 

Dave: what matters. So every time that I'm concerned that we're doing it wrong, I'm like, at the worst they're gonna become you and I.[00:20:00] 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: And if we're committed to being who we are and we're doing it right, and it works for us, then they begin become you and I, we look at our friends' kids. They're 

Angie: their parents. Yeah. Yeah. 

Dave: If a kid's an asshole, their little 

Angie: mirrors, 

Dave: the parent's an asshole. Yeah. Like that's just the way it is, right? 

Angie: Yeah.

Like, yeah. That is interesting. 'cause am I my parents? 

Dave: Yes. In some ways you're, you're the, you're in a lot of ways the best parts. Like think about your mom. Yeah. The best part of your mom. This is, I hope she hears this, is she's a lot of fun. She's down to do a lot of cool things. Yeah. She always doing, they have all of her 

Angie: manner mannerisms, the 

Dave: scavenger huns and like she's down for a good time.

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: She's always open for that stuff. That's the best part of Peggy. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right. And you have a lot of that. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Of you like, you're like, let's go. Let's do something. Let's get going. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. Like, 

Dave: not like Peggy should be doing that all the time. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: The best part of your dad is he's super intelligent and he's a true man, and he has great values.

[00:21:00] Like 

Angie: Yeah. He's practical. He likes adventure. Yeah. 

Dave: I mean, look at my mom. My mom is super intelligent. Yeah. Very, very smart. Right? My dad, dad really creative. Yes. Artist. Mm-hmm. My dad is like the most empathetic and fun and optimistic and like Yeah. Values and integrity. You are who you are. It's just are you getting the shitty part or the good part?

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right. You look at, look at all four of our parents, you know, they're all attractive. They're all successful in their own right. They all did certain things like 

Angie: mm-hmm. 

Dave: I'm not embarrassed of our parents. Yeah. There's things that I'm not. I'm sure that our kids won't be in love with the way we do. No, totally.

And so let's talk about environment a little bit more, right? Mm-hmm. So here we are, we're in the pocket with school, and one of the ways that they become resilient, and I had a little guilt and shame around it and you gave me great perspective on is. Especially El and Lola have been in how many different schools and situations?

So they, they six, they started at [00:22:00] TBS, right? Yeah. We've been to which, just to walk us through, TBS is a Jewish school. Yep. Then they were at, um, day school. Day school, which is just a normal private school. These are all private schools, by the way. 

Angie: Then Dawson. 

Dave: Then Dawson, right before the pandemic. And then we, we transitioned 'em into Gouldsby, which is a public school, and now they're in, and 

Angie: then they did a micro school, I almost forgot.

We had a micro school during Covid. So 

Dave: a micro school is almost like homeschooling with other kids. And you hire teachers. Yeah. So just which there was kids from like eight years separation. Yeah. All in one school. Yeah. Right. And then now they're in a, and then they went 

Angie: back to Goolsby and then, uh, uh, faith Lutheran, 

Dave: they're in Faith Lutheran.

So. We have when people are curious in the laws of Vegas world. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. Of 

Dave: what the best situation. And with the irony, and no offense to any of these schools, I'm not particularly impressed with any of them. 

Angie: Yeah. There's, I mean, there's things we love and hate about all of them. Yeah, exactly. A hundred percent.

There's not one that we're like, you have to go [00:23:00] here. No. Under any circumstance, it's the best. There's 

Dave: there. Exactly. Yeah. There's at least one or two things in each one of these. That's 

Angie: also how we feel about education in a lot of ways, though. 

Dave: Fair. Yeah. And I would not want to be in an educator's position right now, so that's a great, yeah, that's a great way of, uh, covering our ass a little bit on that, but bringing them in and out of the, that many schools, a lot of parents Yeah.

Would be like, yo, you're not doing 

Angie: any, what are you doing? You're ruining them. 

Dave: And what do you say? 

Angie: I mean, I think it, I think it makes him adaptable and I think that it's the best thing for him, you know? And Lola fights it for sure the most. She does. She hates change. Like she freaking hates it. And yet she's the one that, you know, first day of school, she's puking out the side of the freaking school.

Oh, tell the Faith 

Dave: Lutheran story. It's great. It's, yeah, I 

Angie: mean, she was. First day of middle school or first week of middle school. She had a, a first day. It was like a shadow day. And then the second day was like the actual real day. Didn't 

Dave: she had the shits on the first day? 

Angie: No. She threw it both times. She 

Dave: threw it, but one, she was coming out both ends, right?

Angie: Oh. No. 

Dave: Yeah. Oh yeah. Maybe. Yeah. I [00:24:00] remember because one, she puked in your car then we had to, then we had to drive around the street. She was screaming at us all. It was wild. Oh, she was screaming. 

Angie: And then like first day of sixth grade, I pull up and I'm in the drive line. And so all the kids are like getting out their cars, walking past her.

I had given her Pepto BMO that morning 'cause we know for sure she's not. Sick. We know it's a hundred percent her nerves. 'cause we don't send our sick kids to school. That's a whole nother episode, but 

Dave: I think it's worth talking about. Let's get there. 

Angie: I I give her Pepto BMO and like literally no sooner.

Does, does she open the door? She's projectile vomiting Pepto bmo. It's come. Pink is like coming out of her nose. I'm like, you're going in there and you're gonna slay this day. I'm like, wiping it off of her pants. Yeah. She's like, okay mom. I'm going. I'm going. And she freaking did it. And I was like, that is resilience.

When you, when I So could have easily, at that point I had a crossroad where I was like, I [00:25:00] could have just taken her home and been like, it's okay baby. Kind of like we deal with the, don't freaking worry about it. Gymnastics. Yeah. Yeah. And you know. And let her fully succumb to that anxiety and, and what was going on Instead, I was like, wipe dusted off.

Dave: Yeah. 

Angie: And Ghost slay the day. And she came back and was like, I had the best day. 

Dave: Lola. And then that's the thing, Lola is me, right? Yeah. That's the story. My dad, my dad took me and, um, Charlie and Stephanie took my, my best friend Eddie to Disney World when we were nine. Mm-hmm. And everyone talked about Space Mountain.

Space Mountain, space Mountain, you know, especially that kids. Yep. It's the first only trip I think I've ever went as a child. So we're in line for Space Mountain and it's dark. I didn't realize it was dark. I start freaking out. I'm like, I'm not going on this ride. I'm crying. I'm screaming. All of us are waiting online.

We get to right before we're next, to get on the lot to get onto the ride and the frigging thing breaks. Like, you know how they have these little maintenance things and I'm like, I got out and then the lights come on. So you can kind of see what it looks like inside, which would be [00:26:00] 

Angie: crazy to see, but okay.

Dave: It actually helped me out. I didn't realize it. 'cause you could actually see. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And I'm like, all right, well we're not gonna go on this ride. Boom. Lights go out and it's fixed. And I'm like, shit. And so I'm screaming and my dad and some people would say this, and this is how I became a dad. And yeah, this is what you do too.

We're very aligned in this. He goes. You're getting on this ride, and if you don't, we're leaving Florida right now. We're getting on a plane and we're flying home and this trip is over. Mm-hmm. I didn't come all the way to Florida for you not to go on this fucking ride. We go on the ride. I white knuckle my way through it and ended up in loving it.

And then from that point on, there was not one rollercoaster that was too scary for me. 'cause I wanted to go on every one of 'em. Yeah. Now that's a, that's a crossroad, 

Angie: right? 

Dave: And my, I said in hindsight, he's like, Dave, if you hated it, at least you tried it. Exactly. But look, you loved it and you became a rollercoaster junkie.

That is a hard, that's back to the tough love. 

Angie: Oh, a hundred percent. Now hard. That must have been fan the people, the parents that give in, which [00:27:00] again. This isn't even a judgment, but I think it's an overcorrection. The parents that just give in and are like, oh, okay. Or you know, they're self diagnosing their kids with everything or whatever.

I feel like. They're just setting their kids up for this victim hood or this, this, like, I don't have to do that. I don't have to be uncomfortable, I don't have to experience that when it's like the other side of that coin because there are people in this world that are gonna hear that and are gonna think that's like, 

Dave: I know, I know.

Child abuse. We're, we're, we're. So, um. We had an episode drop where people get in the panties and a bunch, and so I feel like yeah, but there, there's, you should streams in any, in any, any way. But don't think you should be apologetic about that. Like that's what we do. No, I'm not being apologetic. That's saying, and I believe you're setting yourself up for kids.

I don't think our kids are gonna be super hard because of that. They may have some somewhat traumatic experience. Well, life is fucking traumatic. Like, yeah, it like you are not, there's no protection. In this game, right? Like you're either gonna be soft and weak and a victim, or you're gonna be resilient, or you're gonna be a bully.

Like you don't wanna be. [00:28:00] 

Angie: Yeah. 'cause there's, yeah. 'cause there's the extremes on every level E. Every level. Exactly. 

Dave: And so I see where you're going with it, but I, I don't think parents would do it themselves. And we don't win this game all the time. Mm-hmm. There are, we give in on some shit that I'm like, shit, I shouldn't have given it on that 

Angie: a hundred percent.

But it's 

Dave: hard. 

Angie: Yeah. Because, or sometimes we go too far and we're like, oh shit, we shouldn't have done that. Which I did 

Dave: yesterday. 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: Right. And so right now we have three different ages. Ella's playing the, I'm only gonna hear what I want to hear. And it infuriates the shit outta me. 'cause I feel like she's lying.

And my trigger is, if you don't tell me the truth and you don't respect me, I go from like give you everything. So I'm just going to pull. And then I overdo it and I get super resentful over it. Dave overdo it. Dave, I don't do anything fucking halfway, right? And so. 

Angie: That was gonna be my question is like what's your, your proudest moment of being a parent and then what is the parenting moment that you just are like, oh, I can't believe I did that.

Like parent fail 

Dave: ev the fail is always when I lose my cool. Mm-hmm. Like that's just. [00:29:00] If I coddle them too much. I know like I'm accountable enough where I'm like, all right, I let, probably shouldn't have let them eat that or I shouldn't have bought that 'cause I You hate it. I buy, they shouldn't even be Christmas and than, or excuse me, Christmas and birthdays 'cause the amount I buy for.

Yeah, you get pissed off. You 

Angie: spoil 'em. For sure. I 

Dave: do spoil them. Um, so I never regret that. I don't think they're spoiled shit, although with Gigi, every time we come in, what do you have? For me, it was probably, yeah, she's a little, 

Angie: she is kind of a spoiled chip, but Okay. She, 

Dave: she could be spoiled for sure.

Yeah. Um, very demanding. My biggest regrets or failures is when I lose my temper. I just don't like that in general, in life. Yeah. Like, like, and I know it's a form of anxiety, it's a form of validation and significance, and I just don't like that about me in general. Mm-hmm. And the last people in the world, I want to do that to, are the ones that I love the most.

And those are the ones most likely to get it. You know, you and especially F four girls, you for one woman and three girls, like, I don't want that. So I, I beat myself up a [00:30:00] little bit on that. Mm-hmm. 

Angie: I 

Dave: try to give myself more grace and just be like, I'm so loving. They know you love me, but I don't want them to remember me as that.

So that's as far as like the proudest moments. I mean, when Ella got in trouble at Faith for not having her clothes and that Dean was being really intimidating, and she was like, call my dad. And he was like, aren't you scared? Like isn't he gonna be mad? And what she said to him is one of the most proud, proudest moments.

She was like, I didn't disrespect anybody, so my dad's not gonna be man. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: I was like, 

Angie: that's powerful. 

Dave: And then I got on the phone with him. I was like, why is my daughter scared? Well, sir, I was like, Uhuh, I didn't pay all this money for my, my daughter to be intimidated. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. By a grown ass man. Yeah.

These are 

Dave: your rules and whether I agree with them or not, I signed up for them. So I'm not asking you to change your rules, but my daughter's not gonna be intimidated. And then [00:31:00] I said, I'm done with you. Give my daughter back the phone. 15 years ago, I would've said, I'm done with you, and I'm on my way to the school.

Yeah. So it's good that I'm, so you have some balance next. And I also listen, I and then, and here's the follow up. When I picked Ella up after I dropped off her clothes, 'cause she was getting an infraction for not wearing clothes, so my kid could be a robot and, you know, uh, 

Angie: yeah. Don't go down that rabbit 

Dave: hole.

Fucking started. Um, I said, Ella, if you want. I will go down the rabbit hole completely, but it's going to end with you not going to the school. 

Angie: Right. 

Dave: So you either like, deal with the rules, 

Angie: deal with the consequence, or, and 

Dave: stay at the school or not. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: And she was like, I wanna stay at the school. I said first, so yeah.

Then this is over like, and that's an adult conversation. 

Angie: Yep. 

Dave: So, yeah, that was my most proud. How about you? 

Angie: My most proud moments are. I mean, there's, there's different pockets and you know, I have the worst memory possible, but my most proud moments are like when we are [00:32:00] just, all four of us are just singing in the car and having so much fun and they're laughing and they're getting along.

And I know I'm creating like an environment that's like happy and fun. Love that. And I also love, like, there's been moments with each of 'em where it's like I stop whatever I'm doing and I know that they need, I need to hold space for them. And I go and I sit in their rooms. And I let them talk and I let them talk about whatever it is, you know, like Ella, it's boys, and it's like, oh, but you know, don't say anything because this is what's going on, or this is the text message or whatever.

And Lola's just holding space for it all because half the stuff she talks about, I'm like toning out. But I'm trying to like understand what she's saying. She's, 

Dave: she's in a unique age and she's unique. 

Angie: She's just about to hit. Yeah. And she's just about to hit puberty, so that's. You know, but when I do hold space for her, it's great.

And Gigi, it's the cuddling and like the, just really paying attention. The moments where I'm like I just beat myself up about is obviously not so [00:33:00] much when I explode 'cause I do explode. Like the crazy demon that lives deep within my soul comes out and Yeah, like shows of space exorcist. Yeah. Pretty much the moments that I'm like, God, I shouldn't be doing this is when it's.

When I'm being a hypocrite, when I'm like, you know, I'm sitting there and I'm scrolling, or I'm doing something I can or don't 

Dave: or don't eat this. 

Angie: Yeah. Not even that. It's more of like the how I spend my time, you know? And it's like I see them like observing what I'm doing and it's like, here I am being like, this is gonna ruin your brain.

It's making you dumber, you know, or whatever. That's fair. I'm doing the same fucking thing, you know? And it's just like, let 

Dave: me give you. Maybe an external proud moment. I think the thing you should be most proud of is that you're the living embodiment of an example of what they should be. Mm-hmm. And what they're like.

They're getting an education and an example every single day of what it is to be a modern day 

Angie: woman. Oh, well thank you. 

Dave: No, that's the truth. 

Angie: Well, thank you. 

Dave: To be [00:34:00] able to have it all, to be able to be feminine, to be able to be a successful woman, to be able to also treat a man a certain way, and I wouldn't say allow, but like even empower.

You to be strong and me still being the man. Like they're getting a masterclass on how to do it. Mm-hmm. So just by living example, 'cause we could say everything we want. The truth is they're going to do what they see and so those are little things. Yeah. There's a hypocrisy there, but the intent is Right, right.

Don't do this. Don't do as, do as I say. Not as I do. Right. Yeah. But ultimately, who you are, essence wise, they get that. Yeah. Because my goal is to be the man that they want to marry. You are, you get to be the person they want to become. 

Angie: Yeah, and one of the other things I'm most proud of with us is like I.

Just love it when, when we're kissing or we're making out in front of 'em and they're like, Ew. But they just have this big smile on their face and then Gigi, well, let's talk about the, and then Gigi comes in like, I wanna do it too. You know, like, yeah. 

Dave: She's like, [00:35:00] come on, let me get in. And then she makes everyone else get in.

Yeah. How about, I'll tell the story then. Ella's in the Makeout stage, right? And so she's so freaked out. She'll make out with her hand, right? 

Angie: Yeah. 

Dave: And 

Angie: which we all have done, 

Dave: yo. 

Angie: I mean, I meet out with my hand and my teddy bear when I was a kid, I was, and she's 

Dave: having a conversation with us. Yeah. And people are gonna think we're fucking nuts.

And she actually was like, can you guys kiss? Just so I could see, right? Yeah. So here we are kissing. She goes, Ew. And I was like, that's not even like a real kiss. 

Angie: Yeah, 

Dave: right. So 

Angie: you're like, just a little tongue. Just a little. And she's like, oh god, I can't believe this is happening. Yeah. Yeah. But it, well, and I kissed her, I made her kiss me, not like make out kiss.

Yeah. But she was like talking about, well, if this, I just wanna peck. And I was like, like a peck? Yeah. Okay. Well do it. Do it to me. And she's like, okay. So she did it. And I was like, yeah, okay. But you gotta like kind, you know? 

Dave: Yeah. 

Angie: And people would think that, that's so freaking weird. But like, I kissed her on the lips all the time.

I 

Dave: also let she, she thinks I still 

Angie: kiss my dad on the lips. Like I don't think that that's true. Of course. So she 

Dave: thinks, um. She [00:36:00] had that thing in her. She just said, she kept saying Hennessy, remember? Oh yeah. And then I was like, well go, go fucking try some Hennessy. Right? Like, yeah. 

Angie: It was like an inside joke.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Dave: I didn't give her a cup of Hennessy, but I was like, try it, taste it. You know what I mean? I mean, I, and I say, the first time you smoke weed is not gonna be with your friends. It's gonna be with me. And I don't even smoke weed, but I want to, it's legal, but it'll be 

Angie: fun. 

Dave: Exactly. And I want, like, so I think we're very open with it, but there's, there's an accountability attached to it, right?

I don't think we do everything right. I think we're somewhat doing this pretty good. Well, 

Angie: we'll see, you know, we'll see how they turn out. Um, 

Dave: the odds are one of them is gonna have some hard, hard times. Yeah. Right. And so when we, you know, I've had some friends who've dealt with kids, like with drugs and, you know, early kids, there's gonna be some tough times.

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: But I just want them to have every tool and be equipped. 

Angie: I think the more, most important thing that you and I have to do is, is really just. [00:37:00] Having each other's back, but also being able to, if I don't agree with you, probably not in front of the children, but afterwards be like, Hey, like I really didn't agree with how we handled this, or whatever.

I think that that's really important because, you know, there were times, not anything in particular that I can remember, but there were times where my dad would hold us accountable and my mom would be like, oh, don't hurt him. Don't hurt him. Don't hurt him. And, and not that that did anything to me, but you were just saying even yesterday when you were exploding, like, I just need you to back me up because it almost makes you even more upset when I am not.

Validating or agreeing with the situation. Well, in, in that 

Dave: case, I was like, I was elevating it. Yeah. Because I was like, shit, not that you weren't backing me up, but like now I'm really gonna have to come even bigger and stronger. Yeah. Because she's not gonna be able to do it. Yeah. And so I agree.

Communication skills on that are huge. Yeah. All right. Final takeaway. 

Angie: You tell me, um, my final takeaway is that. Nobody has it figured [00:38:00] out. We're all doing the absolute best we can. And I feel like depend, like we're, our children are kind of growing up with us, and so they'll figure that out when they're parents and they'll eventually go through that.

But I think that it's all just part of life in this process. I 

Dave: agree. I concur. And I'm gonna go with what I started with. Tell them you love them a hundred times and then a hundred more. Yeah. And then make sure they know that no matter what you're there for them in the hardest of times. Mm-hmm. You're there for them.

Love, love, love, love, love, and then make sure that you don't forget to hold accountable. 

Angie: Mm-hmm. 

Dave: I think if you simplify it like that, there's no perfect, but you got a really great shot to have a great [00:39:00] outcome.