EP. 23 - Lessons from a Teenage Relationship: Marriage Insights - The 10 Year Marriage Podcast

Lessons from a Teenager: Insights into Marriage and Personal Growth

What can a 13-year-old’s breakup teach us about emotional maturity, identity, and intimacy in adult relationships? In this deeply reflective episode, Dave and Angie Tina open up about watching their daughter navigate her first heartbreak—and how it mirrored patterns many adults still struggle with in dating, love, and marriage.

This episode isn’t just about parenting—it’s about partnership.
 It explores the difference between love and significance, the danger of losing yourself in relationships, and how emotional validation often disguises itself as love.

In this episode, you’ll learn:
🔑 How early relationships shape our sense of self-worth
❤️ Why we often confuse attention with connection
🪞 The hidden cost of seeking significance over love
🧠 What it really means to “lose yourself” in a relationship
🚩 The invisible patterns we carry from teenage love into adult marriage
💬 Why you can’t build a fulfilling relationship without first building you

Whether you’re a parent, a partner, or someone healing from past patterns, this episode invites you to reflect on what your relationships are truly rooted in—and whether they’re serving the love you want or the validation you’ve been chasing.

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Transcript

 What can we learn from a 13 year old's relationship? That we can then apply to our own marriages and the people listening and watching can apply to theirs. 

Mm-hmm. 

Is she really concerned about the love portion of it or the significance and when you're a teenager, it's really about significance? Yeah. I believe people are more interested in looking great and being noticed than actually connecting and having love and having sex.

Like they, it's almost the facade that's more of the turn on than the act. Right? Like how much of our next. 10 year plan is rooted in love. Hi, I'm Dave Tina. 

And I'm Angie. Tina. 

Welcome to the 10 year Marriage Podcast. 

On this podcast, we answer the question, what if your marriage came with a 10 year contract?

How would you show up if there was a deadline in your relationship? What would your life look like in the future? And how would you recommit every day? 

Come with us on this journey as we navigate as partners, entrepreneurs, and parents in this big life we've created. 

So this topic's gonna have a lot in it.

There's some parenting, there's some lessons. Now, what are we naming it? Lessons. Lessons. Lessons in love. 

Lessons from how not to lose yourself from a lessons in loves. Yeah. No, I 

was gonna say lessons. Lessons from a teenage relationship. Yes. Teenage relationship. So set the table, um, total consent and permission from our daughter about, you know, she's a teenager.

She's just ended a relationship. And it's so crazy watching your own kids go through this 'cause so much of your own shit comes out. And I had a moment with her in the closet when she was like, well I didn't tell you. You know, we kind of broke up and then we really broke up last night. I think she doesn't talk to me sometimes with it.

'cause she doesn't want the honest, tough only answer. 

Yeah, well that, but she doesn't want. She, she knows how you're gonna answer and then she doesn't wanna disappoint you when she doesn't follow through on what you've given her advice on. Sounds, 

sounds like you're talking through experience. 

Well, no, I mean, I've talked to her about it 'cause she will come to me.

Yeah, she did tell me about the initial break. Right. And she was like, listen, I just don't want dad to know because I don't want him to get upset. 'cause she knew she was like. Like trying to get back with this guy. Yep. Right. And she knew that in your eyes, or she thought that in your eyes, that would make her look weak.

Yep. Or that you wouldn't agree with it. Or if you gave her advice and she didn't follow through with it, that you didn't listen or she didn't listen. So I think that that's where her hesitation was. 

She just didn't want the real accountability, which we all do. 

Right. And there's like, when she was telling me about it, I always am like, listen, you should really go talk to daddy about it.

You know, daddy has really good dating advice, he's really good with this. And her response makes sense to me because I remember being her age and how like intense that feeling is. That feeling of like love and lust and the newness and you know, I think we forget. Especially being in a marriage for a long time, like we forget that really like young, crazy love, you know?

It's different. And even like our relationship, like I think the older you get, it just turns into something different. But there is something to be said for that, like that first love type of feeling. 

The puppy love. Yeah. And I, I think though that is something that we should, every relationship. Should be trying to get 

No, I agree.

Right. And so, you know, I, I don't know if every father feels this way, but I assume they do of a daughter. Like there's no one who's ever gonna be good enough 

mm-hmm. 

For their, for their little girl. But she has this way. I think a lot of people do do this. It's not that she goes for people or guys who are like not as attractive as her, or it's like there's a safety for her.

Mm-hmm. 

That if she like just goes for the guy that maybe she likes his personality or he is a good guy that it won't, I don't wanna say stretch her, but she starts out almost like she feels she's pedestal. Mm-hmm. Meaning like, mm-hmm. She's the prize, which I always tell her she's the prize. 

Mm-hmm. 

Right.

And what happens inevitably, I think a lot of us do this is eventually then we lose ourselves in, in the relationship. 'cause she loves being in a relationship. You know, I joke with her and I'm so mean. I'm like you, like anybody who likes you. 

Yeah. 

That attention, I think that is for a lot of people, like there's a great line in eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mind.

He is. And he's like. The Jim Carrey character's, like, why do I fall in love with every woman who gives me the slightest bit of attention? 

Mm-hmm. 

Right. 

It's so common. 

And she's doing that. 

Mm-hmm. 

And she's like, when she told me they, they broke up and how it happened. I hate being right. I, I sound like my father sometimes.

He used to give me this advice I didn't want to hear. I'm like, you're wrong. And he, and he'd bet me certain things. He'd, we would bet, uh, bags of leaves. 

Yeah. 

You know what I mean? Because back in the east coast coast, you have to rake the leaves and bag 'em. Ugh. I hated it. So that's what we'd bet. And he'd always be, right.

So I said to her, I was like, you think this is a mutual breakup? I guarantee you this guy's gonna go around everywhere saying that he broke up with you. 

Mm-hmm. 

Now here you are in a situation where he wasn't even on your level. You, if anything, elevated his status. Right? 

Mm-hmm. 

And here you are. It's gonna go around that he broke up with you.

I guarantee you he'll be dating somebody else. I'm already right with that. 

Yeah, 

right on. Someone who's not even in your realm. And I. You are now in this position like, I want to take time for myself and this is where it kind Yes and 

no 'cause. 'cause let's back up here real quick. 

Okay. 

When they originally took the break, the conversation was, she heard from one of his friends, I.

That he liked another girl. 

Yeah, 

and she, we should have been the end of it. Right? Then she confronted him and he was like, no, it's nothing. No, it's nothing. But basically I was like, Ella, if he likes this other girl, he likes this other girl. Like it's just a matter of time. He just feels like bad for breaking up with you.

I said, so if you don't just go your separate ways now. Then he's gonna break up with you and he's gonna go with this other girl. So exactly what I said happened, actually happened. 

Gotcha. Right, because she didn't bring me in to this point. Exactly. 

She didn't bring you into that. And so I. He probably was the one that initiated it in a way, just with his energy and with his non-responsiveness and whatever.

And then that way she was like kind of like, oh, it was a mutual breakup. Well, it was a mutual breakup 'cause he started like ignoring you. You know what I mean? 

Well, and she also went from a position like, this guy likes me. I'm not really that interested. I'm gonna be interested. And now losing herself inside of the relationship.

'cause she loves being in the relationship and she loves being in the relationship 'cause she likes. Like all of us being desired and having attention and feeling special and seen and beautiful and all of these things. 

And what I, I feel like if you go, like when you just mentioned the, the quote and you were like, why do I like anybody that gives me attention?

I think that there are a lot of people in the dating world. That are like that, right? Anybody that gives them any bit of like attention, they're like latching onto that. They're holding onto that, and then they're like putting all of their eggs in that basket. But I think there's also a lot of people that do the opposite, right?

The people that are maybe push 'em away or maybe not so nice to somebody or whatever, they're like craving that person's attention or desiring that person to like them. They really, really want that person to like them, that they become needy in that sense. Of like trying to pursue something that isn't gonna work 'cause there's no respect there.

Well that's, and that's where I was leading into is such an interesting way, 'cause the beauty about being a parent or a coach or a leader, if you're aware enough and as you are gonna give advice mm-hmm. If you're giving good advice while you're giving it, you'll listen to your own words and then kind of filter it.

Like, where is this? Do I need to take the advice that I mm-hmm. I'm giving. Mm-hmm. Right? And you get these, most of the time it's a yes, of course it is. And there's these realizations that come through that maybe you haven't been able to explore or even notice because you're in your own bubble. 

Mm-hmm.

And so I was talking to her, I said, she was like, well, this is before she broke everything. She was like, I'm gonna use this summer. I, and this is what we all do. You know, look great, do all these things. And it's like all of a sudden this investment is gonna go from external into the other, from the other person back into ourselves.

Mm-hmm. 

And I was like, baby, it should always be like that. You should never be just making that investment outward. So what's gonna happen? You're gonna lose yourself. 

Right? 

And I said, and that's when the equilibrium of your relationship gets out of whack. 

Mm-hmm. 

Because everyone's we're, we've talked about this a hundred times.

There are times when like. You are on your game and I'm not, and there's times I'm on my game and you're not. We're both on our games and we're crushing it together. And then we're both not like if we're, if we're focused on the other person, it's just be, it's this chasing game. Yeah. We can't live through another human being.

Right. 

And I was like the beauty of our relationship, I was like, your mom and I is that, gotta get to a point. And I don't care, I'll say this a million times in almost everything in life, but especially in relationships. You want them, but you don't need them. Mm-hmm. And the, and I think the second part of that, or the, the follow up to that comment is the reason why I want you, and I don't need you.

It's because I am investing in myself to a point where I'm so secure. I don't need anybody 

extra external validation. Yeah. 

But I want it. Right. 'cause that's the beauty of life. 

Right. It reminds me of that quote. I, you might know who said this, but there was, um, there's a video or a quote or something that we watched and it said that you don't.

Become, or you don't miss, typically in relationships when it breaks up, you don't miss that person. You missed who you were because of that person. '

cause it was a, it was a mirror. 

Exactly. Yeah. And so, like, the person that you were, and the, the way that you laughed and the way you showed up for yourself, those were the things that you miss.

It's not the person, the external person that you miss, but it was who you, how you felt, and who you became and who you were. In the relationship, but 

you gotta be careful. There's a negative side of that too, because if you felt like sometimes we will say I, I hate to keep using the word pedestal, but we will overvalue the past relationships that we didn't get our needs served.

Because in those relationships, it was exposing us. So for instance, if you look back and you're like the quintessential situation where the guy wants the girl that'll never give him the time of day. 

Mm-hmm. 

Or the girl wants the guy that cheated on him over and over again, it's because you, you feel like you were losing.

Right 

in chasing you, like almost overcompensated with this love and this lack. 

Mm-hmm. 

And you're getting confused by like, 'cause you feel less than you think that you wanted it so much more. 

Right. 

You gotta be careful not to get addicted to that feeling. 

Oh, I know. And even with, with our daughter in this situation, like you said, broke, we probably should give everybody context on what you mean by broke everything.

Oh, yeah. She fell off an electric scooter and, and broke some stuff. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. She, 

so she goes into, this was, this happens right after day of, right? This breakup? Well, next, yeah. Similar. Oh, that morning. Same weekend. Anyways. Yeah. Okay. And so she goes into school and she comes into the car and I pick her up from school and she's like, you know what?

She's like, he. Literally looked at me and almost laughed and walked away. I was like, so wait a minute. You're telling me that you were in a relationship with somebody that did that and that treated you like that? I said, this is a gift. Like that's the best gift ever. Yeah. But 

this, this happened in the last two relationships.

So in both of these situations 

mm-hmm. 

They were infatuated with her. 

Right. 

And then after the breakup, they played it off like she was nothing. 

Right. 

To me, the person accountable and responsible for that change and transformation is her. 

I agree. 

And I. It's not because they were special. 

Yeah. She 

fell in love with being in love.

Yep. 

She fell in love with the attention and that scene in her and the text 

messages and the loves conversation. She loves, I mean, and who doesn't love it? Of course, right. We all loved it, but, but you always make a great point where you're like, there's no chase with her. Right? Like she's giving all of herself and she's like just putting it all on the line.

There's nothing, there's no chase. 

I've been in both roles. I understand. 

Yeah, I do too. You know, I've been in both roles too. Our other 

daughter is gonna push everyone away, and then when she finally has someone come in, she's gonna fall harder than anybody and then, and become the most 

needy person on the planet 

back and forth though.

Yeah. She's, because she's a lot like me. She'll be, there's gonna be this tough love where she gives all this love and then just attacks. 

Mm-hmm. 

Picture her, right? Yeah. She's me. Right. Well, 

and, and I do, you know, you were, I think the reason why, one of the biggest reasons why. I knew you were the one is because in past relationships, I either did feel that, like I felt like I was like a pedestal and it was like almost annoying.

I was like, God enough already. You know? Or it was the opposite. Like I was in a relationship where like I would eat and I'd be like, oh my God, is he watching me eat like this? Yeah. Like why I'm uncomfortable, like I don't, what if I'm chewing wrong? What if I have something in my teeth? What's going on? And so I either felt.

One minute 

expect from the other. 

Exactly. And when I met you, it was like, I felt like I could be silly, I could be myself. I could be just me. Like I felt like naturally myself and not having to try too hard and also not feeling like, you know, you always had this respect and this level of like love and appreciation, but it wasn't over the top where it was like I was suffocating.

It's interesting because every once in a while. I, it took me 15 years of being with you. Mm-hmm. To realize you do this. If I'm being needy or too nice, or too into you, you will push. 

Mm-hmm. 

And then you'll get what you don't want, but what you want. 

Right. 

Right. And you almost have to be a little bipolar in a relationship.

You gotta be able to come up with both. Like you never pedestal you because I've dated girls like you before as far as looks wise. 

Mm-hmm. 

I've never been with anybody who's been to me, both sides for me. 

Mm-hmm. 

Right. And so that's why I we're married. 

Mm-hmm. 

That makes sense. But yet here we are, 15 years and you still won't be vulnerable enough.

You don't wanna be judged. You won't fart in front of me. That's, that's fair. So there's certain things, right? Like that's 

fair, 

but yet you'll be 

so ridiculously obnoxious. 

Like, like just, and I love it. It's quintessential you. 

Yeah. 

Right. Back with our daughter. She needs to find that balance. 

Right? 

And I was like, you need to take turns.

Like you need to be grounded in yourself. You know, and my, my buddy Billy, uh, I brought, I brought her into the office the other day and he was talking to her about it, and Billy's a New York Italian as well, and he gave such, he has two daughters of his own. He gave great advice to her. He was like, he was like, listen, these are boys.

He's like, don't give away your whole entire middle school and high school years being so wrapped up in another human being. That you don't get to experience 

yourself. Mm-hmm. 

This time, like you could have it both. It was, I think it was great advice because that's where you lose the whole thing. You don't even enjoy being in the relationship.

Right. You know, and adults do this too. Course. I mean, of course there's so many relationships where it's like, are you being your true self? Like, are you happy? Are you living like your passion? Are you following your dreams because of, or are you playing small because you don't want to? Jeopardize the relationship or you don't wanna have the confrontation, or maybe it won't work out if you follow those things, but like, where are you in your relationship sacrificing who you truly are to make somebody else happy.

And that's, I think, more common than not. And listen, there was a point where I was like that in our relationship where I was like, man, like, you know, we were dealing with when you were the president and, and we were going through like that part of our life where it was like. There was jealousy that would come up on both sides, and we would argue about our sex life, or we would have these debates where I was like, our roles in the relationship.

Our roles in the relationship. Yeah. Like do we need a nanny? Am I, am I. You know, feeling guilty or shameful. And it was like, it's been this journey and I think it's still becoming right, but it, I had to step aside and be like, listen, these things are important to me. And I had to reset the boundaries for myself because I was the one that set those boundaries.

Exactly. And I think that's why that therapist gave you the best advice ever. Like, you're making all these assumptions. It, listen, it was even in my relationship with my dad during the ownership of Rub Nest, like I spent three years in Vistage going like. It's my company. Yep. It's not his. And when, when really, I was already making all the decisions.

Right. 

It was just my dad was, he didn't even give 

yourself permission. He wasn't 

holding me back. 

You were holding you back. I was holding me back. Mm-hmm. I had 

all these weird things like, I can't do this. 'cause I was like, my relationship with him means so much to me and I don't wanna jeopardize it and all of these things.

Meanwhile, once it's like, no one's gonna give you the crown, 

right? What's that? What's that? Uh, you just wrote it down yesterday. It was an amazing quote on something we just watched. Yeah, nobody's gonna tell your story if you don't tell yourself. Oh yeah, that's, 

that, that great show. Yeah. Um, it's uh, if you don't tell your own story, no one's gonna do it for you.

Mm-hmm. 

And if you don't, do you, people aren't gonna show up. Like, that's one of the things I'm learning right now, still. Like, I can't believe this game alone. Like, I gotta raise my hand and be like, Uhuh, 

yep. I matter and I wanna be seen and I wanna be heard. And that's okay. Right. 

And so this what kind of triggered this for me.

I was like, wow, this is a whole entire topic. Is this begins and ends with you baby. 

Mm-hmm. 

And when you get into another relationship, double down even harder on showing up for you. 'cause that's what is going to be the most attractive thing 

to another person, 

of course. And the feeling of like, it's a harder relationship 'cause.

You know, it's like we want this comfortable life, but we really don't. Mm-hmm. Because the things that make our life meaningful are the uncomfortable things. We want this relationship, this, this fairytale of the minute you say I do, you're set for life. Mm-hmm. This woman, this man, doesn't matter. You could become 800 pounds and give up your purpose.

Nope. You're stuck with each other. We want this fairytale that everything's gonna be easy. From this point out, we found that person. We no longer have to worry about dating. There's no work. That's not how it works. The best relationships are the ones where it's like, holy shit. This woman, this man has so many options, is so desirable, has so many things going for them that I better keep, I better invest in myself and keep my shit going.

That is the thing. The best relationships are the ones that are always on the brink. Which is crazy to look inside of or look at, you know, a 13-year-old 

mm-hmm. 

And get that takeaway. 

Mm-hmm. 

And that it comes up so early. 'cause what do people want? What's, what was it Tony s thing we did when he was like, here are the, the four, um.

Needs was Maslow's needs or the hierarchy of needs, right? No, 

there's, I think there's seven needs. There were 

six, but the four main ones 

were certainty, certainty, uncertainty, significance, 

and love, 

and love and connection. 

Now, love and connection was one. 

Yeah. 

And then the two extra ones, I'm gonna sneeze, were contribution and growth.

Mm-hmm. 

Right? 

Yep. 

And so we're doing this thing. There's gotta be, what? 6,000 people in the room. And he's explaining certainty, uncertainty, love, significance. And then he adds in contribution and growth. And he is like, let's do this little test, which is your most important one? Mm-hmm. So some people, it's like, I want to know.

Everything that's gonna happen, like certainties are game. Some people just love chaos and spontaneity. Some people they, they want to be seen and heard. They want to feel important significance. And some people just want love. It's kind of like love languages. Mm-hmm. And then contribution and growth is giving, and then growth is growth, right?

Yep. 

And so we're standing, we're separate 'cause we played the game correctly. 

Mm-hmm. 

Usually you could just stay with your friends or the, I mean, we weren't even like living together at this point. We just decided to go, right? 

Mm-hmm. 

And in my brain, I'm like this entire room. Is going to stand up when he says love.

'cause that's the only frame and lens I could see it from. 

Mm-hmm. 

Right. He does certainty. A few people stand up, uncertainty, a few people stand up, he does significance and like 80% of the fucking room stands up. 

Mm-hmm. 

And I'm like, okay, this is not what I expected. He says, love. A lot of people, maybe 10% of room stand up.

And I see this beautiful woman across the entire way. And I go up, Angie's standing up with me. 

Mm-hmm. 

Right? Mm-hmm. And then the contribution, and it was an eye-opening experience for me in a couple ways. So one, I was like, I can't believe how many people first, most important thing is feeling significant.

Mm-hmm. 

And that how much we do things to feel significant to 

meet that need. Yeah. 

It blew my mind. And the other thing was I was like, and if that's the case, how come my, my, I didn't know my wife. You were gonna be my wife at the time, but how come her and I are standing up for love? Which I don't think is a coincidence of why, one of the reasons why we're together.

Mm-hmm. 

Right now I have my reasons of why I don't think significance is a big thing for us. I think because of our childhoods and the way we looked and the accomplishments that we got, we had an overflow of significance. Plus there's some trauma, and I think we both wanted to be loved. But if you go back to that, that's what it's coming down to.

In these relationships, especially for her. 

Yeah. What needs are being met? And that's an interesting thing. We, I remember at A YPO event, there was that psychologist that was speaking and somebody in the back raised their hand and they were like, well, why does my sister keep choosing this deadbeat of a guy that's abusing her emotionally and physically, like, what is going on?

And he was like, because he's meeting our needs. And she's like, what? What do you even mean by that? He's like. The relationship that she is in is meeting the need, her need, and her thoughts are saying, she's not worthy. She's not enough. She shouldn't, she doesn't deserve to be loved. She doesn't deserve respect.

So she's in this relationship and she keeps being pulled back into the relationship because it's meeting that need, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. That's something that she believes herself to be true. The deeper question is like, what need? Is our daughter looking for to be met, that she keeps getting in relationships like this where she's not being valued at the end of it, but she's desiring to be in these relationships.

Right. And how are we all showing up? Like I. In your relationship, not only in your, your significant other relationship or your marriage, but in your friendships, right? Like, are there people that maybe don't respect you or that that aren't aligned? Like what needs, why are they in your life, right? Like, they're obviously meeting a need in some way, shape, or form, and what does that need mean?

So I have some real time takeaways. 

Mm-hmm. 

One is you're not gonna be able to meet that need unless you meet it within yourself first. 

Yeah, agreed. 

The second one, which I think is a more interesting thing to explore, is that I, I believe that our greater purpose for this entire thing inside of this podcast, what we want to, what we're doing with our life is the transition of a society.

Having the need to be love, go to significance. We are in a significance society now. 

Mm-hmm. 

I think people are more willing to sacrifice for significance. I. Than they are for love. I think love is being discounted and undervalued at an alarming rate. 

Mm-hmm. 

Because if you think about it, I believe people are more interested in looking great and being noticed than actually connecting and having love and having sex.

Like they, it's almost the, the facade that's more of the turn on than the act. 

Mm-hmm. 

And I think that's why, I believe that's why. We are losing ourselves. 

Mm-hmm. 

As a society. That's my in the moment takeaway. 

The same way people are losing themselves in a relationship. We're losing it in society as a whole.

Exactly, because is she really concerned about the love portion of it or the significance, and when you're a teenager, it's really about 

significance. Yeah. I think that it is, and I think that I still tell her, I'm like, you still haven't found your first love. Like 

yeah, 

we both have those people, right, that we dated in high school that like it was this, I moved 

around, I moved across an entire nation.

Exactly. And yeah. Those, those two for us were so such a pivotal part of our life and she still hasn't had that. Right. And I keep telling her, I'm like. It's okay because when that happens, like this hurts. This hurt is real and I believe that it's real, but that hurt is really painful. Right? Like it, it really, but it's also first get your heart, heart completely.

It's most amazing 

feeling and, and ever 

it is. And I'm like excited and I'm, I'm scared for her because like when she does. Get her heartbroken. Like, I just wanna cry with her. I feel like she's an extension of me. You know? I feel her pain physically and emotionally. It's like the 

broken bones. 

Yeah. And I'm like, but at the same time I'm like, you have to go through this process.

Like you have to, there's, there's no other way about it. Like the human experience, I feel like. It's necessary 

human experience, but the human experience, what I'm saying it needs, and that's where I think I'm focusing on. Mm-hmm. Like you're not finding yourself again. You're not investing yourself again.

Yeah. You got to remember that the person who needs to love themself the most 

is yourself. 

It's so simple. It's so difficult. Yeah. Even the decisions that we're making, they're so based off of like, do I love myself enough to do what I enjoy and what I'm passionate about and what I'm called to do. Or is it about significance in the amount of money I make and what people think?

Yep. 

It's an interesting path where this has taken us, but what does your marriage look like, right? Mm-hmm. Do you have, is your marriage a marriage of significance or it's a marriage of love because you know, our other daughter's going through this moment of like being seen. 

Mm-hmm. She's 

getting squeezed.

The youngest one, she's, she's gonna be seen one way or another. Yeah. She's, you know what I mean? She's forcing 

that on everyone. Yeah, of 

course. And it's easy 'cause everything she does is 

right. 

And the oldest is going through all of the middle, is like, 

mm-hmm. Wait, do fit in here? Wait, 

my older one looks like a woman.

Yep. 

My older sister, she's got all these boys and attention and, you know, my, my younger is this baby that everyone thinks the most cute thing in the world. I'm going through puberty. 

Yeah. 

And I feel like no one's seeing me. 

Mm-hmm. 

And to the lengths of where she'll go to be seen. This is a slippery slope.

Mm-hmm. 

It's wild. I think we've unlocked something pretty interesting here and it's like, like what is the point of being in a 10 year marriage or being in a marriage where you're like, what are we searching down? What are we hunting down in the future? What is our marriage rooted in? What can we learn from a 13 year old's relationship that we can then apply to our own marriages and the people listening and watching can apply to theirs?

Mm-hmm. 

Right. Like how much of our next 10 year plan is rooted in love? It's kind of interesting question. 

It is. And like you said, you kept going back to it. It starts with you. You know, you have to love yourself enough, you have to cherish yourself. And I think that's the whole concept of why we came up with it in the first place is I, I want to be with you.

I don't have to be with you. 

It could be the most human experience to love someone so much. Yet be willing to put yourself in a position to lose that person. Mm-hmm. And be okay with it. That could be the highest risk, but the biggest reward. Mm-hmm. Is true love to love yourself enough that I'm worth it. I know I'm worth it, but I am willing to be vulnerable and give, and.

Feel these feelings because, 

and sacrifice the rejection for just my truth. 

You know, my dad has an old saying every time, like someone would break up or I'd have, I'd fall in love a lot, puppy love. Mm-hmm. I think you did too. 

Yeah. 

And he'd be like, Dave. Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

Right? 

Mm-hmm. It's 

kind of like, uh, the Garth Brooks song, the Dance. 

Yep. 

But I have to Miss the Dance. I love that song so much. And he's basically saying that even, and even knowing, again, chills, 

I know I'm gonna cry 'cause that's the, the song my dad wants at his funeral. 

Even knowing how we, we know how it's gonna turn out.

Right. We know we're all gonna die. This relationship is gonna end one way or another, right? 

Mm-hmm. 

But even though knowing how it would end, I wouldn't have wanted to miss the experience. Right Now, that's not a, a game of significance. That's a game of true love, true experience, true human life. And so, uh.

Hey, I'm not saying our daughters are gonna be uh, perfect, but they're definitely gonna be interesting. That's for sure.