Ep. 26 - Cheating, Self-Betrayal & Emotional Affairs: Real Infidelity in Marriage | The 10 Year Marriage Podcast

Cheating isn’t always about sex. In this brutally honest episode, we break down the uncomfortable truths around infidelity—from emotional affairs to unresolved insecurities, unmet needs, and the real reasons people cheat.

We explore why cheating is often a self-betrayal before it’s ever a partner betrayal, the role emotional disconnection plays in long-term relationships, and why truth-telling, boundaries, and regular renewal are essential in modern marriage.

Whether you've been cheated on, cheated yourself, or want to protect your relationship from silent drift, this conversation is packed with perspective-shifting insights.

In this episode, you’ll hear:
- Why cheating starts as an internal split, not a physical act
- Why unmet emotional needs are more dangerous than you think
- The red flags you might be ignoring before infidelity happens
- The difference between physical vs. emotional cheating—and why both matter
- How the “10 Year Marriage” model creates space for honest renewal and truth-telling
- Why the betrayed partner isn’t always innocent—and what accountability really looks like

This is one of those episodes that might trigger you—and that’s the point. The conversations you’re afraid to have? They’re the ones that save your relationship.

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Transcript

 The physical affair. I feel like I could come out of that and stay in a relationship with you and be like, you know what? Like, okay, let's talk about this. Let's work through this. But emotionally, like if you were telling somebody else that I love them, the thing, yes, like I would be like, then why are we together then?

What are we doing with this? Hi, I'm Dave Tina. And I'm Angie. Tina. Welcome to the 10 year Marriage Podcast. On this podcast, we answer the question, what if your marriage came with a 10 year contract? How would you show up if there was a deadline in your relationship? What would your life look like in the future?

And how would you recommit every day? Come with us on this journey as we navigate as partners, entrepreneurs, and parents in this big life we've created. So today's episode is gonna be about cheating, and in the beginning when we started this podcast. Right off the bat, we had the people that know us the most getting triggered about topics and things.

And through this journey, I mean we're on the 25th episode. I've learned a couple things and one of them is something I've always known in kind of like theory, and it happens with me. I fall for it too. But it's the thing that triggers you the most is really a mirror. It's the thing that you're projecting onto somebody else, but you need to like look within.

I don't know how it came up. We were actually driving to the airport. Somehow cheating came up. Do you know what we were talking about? I forgot. I have no idea what we were talking about. That opened up this conversation of like, you know, we know a lot of people. Yeah. We know a lot of people that have cheated on.

A lot of people too have been cheated on. Yes. Right. And you know, I always say I've never been cheated on, which of which I know of. Maybe pe the women were just too scared to admit. Yep. I personally believe that in most relationships I've never been cheated on because I never gave women the opportunity to cheat on me.

Right. So we've talked about that you have been cheated on and found out about it and whatnot, right? I have, yeah. I mean, um, yeah, it was my first actual real relationship and it, it was something that. All, uh, everybody knew but me. I found out and it crushed me, like crushed me. Not only the cheating part, like the person that cheated on me and the whole situation that went down.

I think what crushed me and, and made it even worse is that. Everybody knew, and I felt betrayed by not just the person that cheated, but everybody around me. So I have some contrarian thoughts about this. I threw 'em into chat, GPT. Mm-hmm. And here were like the three big ones that I came up with right off the bat.

And you just kind of said one of them, one that cheater cheats on themselves first. Correct? Yep. The betrayed partner is not always innocent, and sometimes cheating is a good thing. As could be. The catalyst. I still believe there's better ways to do it, but there's a way to blow it up on the way out and make it where you know, so the cheater cheats on themselves first, right?

It's not just a betrayal of a partner. It's a betrayal of self integrity is not situational. When someone cheats, they split from their own truth long before they split from the relationship. What need were they unwilling to own? What emotion did they suppress? What conversation did they avoid that led them there?

I'm very delicate with this 'cause I'm not outing anybody. This is past, not current. 'cause everyone's gonna try to start like deducing, right? Friends of mine have or past friends have been cheaters. Mm-hmm. And I was very judgmental in my own brain because can a friend be really great friend if they're willing to cheat on their partner, aren't they willing to cheat on you?

Right? A hundred percent. And not only that, but that. Distrust and disloyalty has to extend over in other parts of their life. Right. And obviously it's a, it's a cheating on themselves in a way. But if that's where your values are and you're willing to go down that, that path, then like what else are you willing to do?

We talk about it even with business. So, so yes and yes and yes and mm-hmm. Because this, I kind of set you up 'cause I've evolved. Mm-hmm. Because we always looking at cheating as cheating on someone sexually with your, with. On your partner. Mm-hmm. But this is an integrity game, and I believe when people are cheating, they're out of integrity.

It doesn't matter. But we can really stretch this if I'm outta shape right now, like I'm 20 pounds overweight right now, right? Mm-hmm. Am I cheating on myself? Yeah. I mean, that's going deep, right? Is it though? Yeah. Like, and so I believe that yes, it is a red fucking flag because if someone's willing to risk their marriage, then you gotta, you gotta watch.

But I know some really great people were cheating, especially one in particular, I believe in this situation. The self-worth of this individual. Mm-hmm. And the desire to prove themselves as. Attractive and desirable because they felt they weren't. Yeah. It was such a bottomless pit of validation need, and that's that they served themselves through the cheating.

Yeah, and I think it can come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, right? It could be an identity crisis, it could be a insecurity that they're just feeling about themselves. They could not feel desired as well. Like there's so many layers to this on why people cheat. And the question I have for you is, in the past you've known cheaters, right?

You've had people in your life that have, are they repeat offenders? Like are these, is this a common thing or is it something like you said, is this a part of their life where they're like, Hey, I'm going through something. This is what I'm dealing with, and then they cheat. Like, are they always, is a cheater, always a cheater?

Is a cheater just like going through this part of their life and they need this validation? I think a cheater is always a cheater until they heal. That's fair. Right? Like heal something, something deeper, something deeper, right? Yeah, because like why would somebody cheat and stay in a relationship? Mm-hmm.

Right? They're either betraying themselves, they're betraying the relationship, they're betraying themselves potentially, that they're not willing to have a conversation, which there's some truth that's not being unearthed, right? Like I can frame things where you'd be like, of course that person cheated.

They should be cheating. Right, like the husband who, the wife hasn't looked at him for 30 years and they've had sex once in the last five years. If I just frame it like that, you're like, of course he's gonna cheat with his secretary, or someone he's met online or something that, or his, you know, someone at the gym or something like that.

But then I could be like, well, the wife hasn't felt seen or heard in so many years. Like, you could start, there's, yeah, it goes deep. You could start painting. Some elaborate pictures that justifies everything. Yeah, totally. Really, the actual cheating is the unwillingness to confront the truth on both sides.

Yes. Cheating on yourself first when you cheat because you're seeking a solution outside of where you should actually be focusing. Right. Rather than it's an avoidance thing. Mm-hmm. I'm going to meet a need. In a different way. Yep. Like I should probably write in here the, the what people say, the reasons they cheat, but I could easily say it's probably not because of sexual needs.

Yeah. No, I don't. I would agree with that. And how many, how many, like what's the ratio of cheating versus emotional Cheating and physical cheating. First thing that pops up. Unmet emotional needs. Yep. Right. Lack of physical intimacy or connection. Yep. Novelty and variety. Addiction. Now we're just going deep.

Ego insecurity. External validation. Avoidance of conflict or truth. Revenge. Your punishment. Opportunity. Plus lack of boundaries. That's like super rich people like, yeah. You know. Or famous, um, addiction, spiritual misalignment, and then bonus, the unspoken reason because I didn't have the courage to end it before I broke it.

Right. So that, that goes into the third, the fir. Exactly. But we kind of hit on a lot of these, so it's always worth pausing. And tying it into the purpose of this podcast in the first place. Mm-hmm. How do you believe this aligns? I mean, the 10 year marriage and having these conversations about the contract moving forward?

I mean, well, it aligns so much like, you know, in a, in that case where you, you made that example, right? Where this, the wife hasn't felt, seen or heard and hasn't like initiated sex or had sex with her husband in a long time. So then he ventures out, and I'm saying this is like a very specific. Example, the 10 year marriage is about having those uncomfortable conversations and seeing and being like voicing and naming like, Hey, I don't feel desired by you.

Like, what is, what is going on here? Because obviously something's off and really being attuned to the frequency that your relationship is giving off. Because if you're not and you just kind of fly by the day and you go through and you, you know, create busy work. Eventually one person is gonna start to kind of drift off on the other side, right?

And then it's like, whose fault is it? Because, no. So that goes, nobody ever even initiated the conversation. So that goes into the second part. Mm-hmm. So I put signs that people are the red flags, right? Yep. They start getting in shape, upgrading their looks fast. Sudden garden this with their phone, emotionally distance themselves, increased criticism of you.

They always busy or tired. They pick fights for no reason. Unusual sexual behavior, too much or too little. They start comparing you to others. They become overly defensive or secretive. Your intuition screams and you dismiss. Dismiss it, right? So that's the second part. The second part is what part does the one that was cheated on?

Play what accountability. And so here it says cheating doesn't happen in a vacuum. Sometimes one partner checks out emotionally, physically, or spiritually leaving a void. This isn't about blame, it's about shared responsibility for the ecosystem of the relationship. What unspoken resentment, avoidance, or neglect festered before the act.

And I made a comment where if you're cheated on, you shouldn't be surprised. Yes. And in most cases, in a lot of cases, yes. Okay. And I think that it comes with one of the big ones is boundaries, setting boundaries. Like if you are in a relationship, and let's say you're in a, in a relationship with somebody that's emotionally unavailable in the very beginning, and you're constantly like just trying to make it work, and you're just like holding onto something that really isn't there and that you've never really felt full of commitment.

Mm-hmm. Like eventually, what do you expect that person's gonna do? Yeah. Right. So it's like, and then it's having boundaries and being like, listen, like maybe that person is very flirtatious with people and like you've just let that person get away with it for a long time. And this could be male or female, and it's like, and you never having a boundary and, and say, Hey, that makes me uncomfortable.

I don't feel good when you make me feel like that. And if that doesn't change, then. We're gonna have to figure something out. I mean, it, it goes to every layer, right? But it's about really naming it and being like, if you don't feel desired by that person, people, like you said, you keep going back to people's needs.

People's needs are going to have to get met somehow. Right? And if that is what happens, then it's like take a deeper dive and take a look on why that even show showed up in the first place. You know, it's interesting. I was thinking like if one person has a glow up. Some kind of growth or it starts looking great, like they mentioned it, that glow up can potentially lead either person.

Either person. Yeah. To cheat for different reasons. Yeah. Because the person that's getting left behind needs validation. Yes. Right. And the person that's like, I'm, I'm doing something. And they're like, Hey, like, you know, they're, they're getting other OP opportunities and, and stuff sent their way. So I agree that it could go both ways.

And in a lot of cases, I think that the more insecure person is the one that cheats. Yes. Because the secure person most likely would be like, I'm either gonna, you're either gonna meet me there or I'm moving on. Right, right, right. Or give the other person the opportunity to grow with them. Exactly. Right.

Because. Why would you Instead of Yes. Instead of burning it to the ground in that way, which leads you back to one of those other things. It's like the third one. Some, sometimes cheating is the catalyst. Right? Right. But I wanna, I want to finish out the second one. The betrayed partner is not always innocent.

Mm-hmm. I know of a, of a man, I caught his wife cheating with his best friend and it took him years, but he finally took accountability to that he was not showing up in the marriage and that he pushed her away. Now, uh, to me it doesn't forgive. Pretty much a man's worst nightmare. Yeah, right. Either one of those two parties.

Yeah. The wife or the best friend. Exactly. But I think there's some awareness there like, well, if I was doing what I needed to do, I don't think this situation would've been as likely to happen. Not only that, but if you would've been showing up in your relationship to your highest potential, then you wouldn't even fucking care if the other person cheated on you.

You'd be like, all right, a hundred percent. It's a one for it. It's one on me. You're fucking lost. You know? So two people playing the game. Not their highest level, but pretty fucking high levels. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what are the chances they're cheating on each other? Yeah. It's almost even if their highest levels are pushing them apart, they could show up and be like, all right, well, let's see if there's something left here.

Or let's let this die at the end of this contract, or let's let the contract die now. Right? Yep. And if you can fulfill that need, it just goes back to the desire conversation. If you can feel that need to be desired by yourself and not have it come from an external validation of someone else, I feel like you're.

Less likely to cheat, and you're also less likely to be hurt by a cheater. Yeah, and I go back to it like, I think we said this in the, the jealousy conversation. Like when I, I've talked to you about it, like I've had these moments of jealousy and then I was like, wait a minute, like. If Dave were to cheat, he would be cheating on himself and our children and our marriage and all of these things.

And like if he was willing to put that everything in my life that I stand for. Yeah, exactly. And if he was willing to put that all on the line, then obviously there's something much, much deeper that needs to be looked at and well that's, that's the jealousy conversation we had on another podcast. Mm-hmm.

The way I finally healed some of those wounds was like, well hell then she wasn't the woman that I thought Exactly. And man, she just exposed who she is and like. And thank God they did. You got it. Like she's got a look. Becausecause, why would I want us waste another fucking decade? You got it. Another 10 years for somebody that didn't even Val value our relationship 1000%, which then leads into sometimes cheating is the catalyst again, another situation when they cheated on their significant other.

Mm-hmm. And the whole thing got blown up. I looked at it like, okay, that relationship was never gonna go anywhere. There are already a couple of kids deep, like there's a positive about this. There could be a positive about this. Right? Right. Like you're so trapped, you don't feel like you can get out, so you just.

Lay down a tremendous, I don't even know if you burned that boat and you let it just explode everything. Like you put yourself in a position, you can't get yourself where Yeah, and, and where you can get caught, right? Like you're almost intentionally wanting to get caught sabotaging the whole thing because you're like, I want out of this relationship so bad.

I've tried other ways. I don't know how else to do it, so I'm gonna sabotage it to the highest degree and I'm gonna just. Go for it. So then here it says, the break reveals the truth that's been buried. Sometimes couples build, rebuild stronger. Others get wake ups call they need. Here's an interesting thing though, not to jump, but you know 50% of relationships stay together after cheating.

I believe it. Wild. So in this case, like it says, infidelity isn't the end, it's the truth breaking through the illusion. Right? Some and then others get the wake up call. They needed to leave, like I said, and finally, yeah, leave. Or maybe it is that couple that was never. Taught and never learned how to have a deep conversation, and that's what opened up that portal into like, okay, this is obviously something we are forced to talk about and maybe it led into something greater.

Yeah. But I feel like there's healing on both sides. That is required for that couple to stay together. It's not just the person that got their heart broken, that got cheated on, that has to do the healing. It's just as much or even more the person that did the cheating that has to go through that process.

So it just got me think healthy, something interesting. Right. Relationship. I think one of the most, let's say primal reasons for cheating would be for newness and variety. Yeah. Right. Maybe. One of the reasons why the 10 year marriage, or just the whole commitment of growth is so important is that you get to change so often and the other person's changing so often that you kind of get to like make love and have sex to a new version of that person.

A new version. Yeah. Right. Like, yeah. That's sexy, like holy shit. You know, and so it's one of the reasons why people sh could not be stagnant. 'cause if you're the same person living the same life, having the same sexual positions. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, yeah. We just heard recently that someone said that the whole time I was married we just did a missionary.

Mm-hmm. And I was like, imagine that, right? Not exploring, like you got like that. Like there's growth in every little micro. Category of a relationship. All right, so then let's, let's play this out. Mm-hmm. Because this is when it opens up a whole new part, right. Who cheats more men still cheat. More women. It actually, I've read statistics, it said men cheats cheat more, but women under 30 are cheating at or higher rates than men right now.

And women, men over 50 are cheating more as well. Yep, totally right. What constitutes cheating? Well, I personally think that an emotional affair would be more heartbreaking for me if to get, like if you were to have an emotional affair, I would be, I believe I would be more heartbroken than a physical affair.

So if I had a foursome with three women blowing me at the same time, and versus an emotional affair with someone, how are four people gonna blow you at the same time? Well, I'm the one and then three women just taking turns. I mean, not that I thought of it. Yeah, right. Okay. Is that our next episode?

Fantasies? My God. No, it's not high on the fantasy. That's just the first thing that popped into my head. Yeah, of course. It's like, um. It is interesting. What's cheating and what's not. Especially, well, we were talking about some religions, pornography, street cheating. Mm-hmm. You have AR and vr, like are you putting on Oh, that's fucking weird.

Yeah. Goggles. Like there's that great Black Mirror episode where they're having full, that's more of emotional. Yep. Right. And then robots are gonna become a thing now, right? Yeah. Like and so. It's just an interesting, I mean here's, here's the reason I said that about the emotional and the physical cheating is like, let's just say that were to happen.

The physical affair. I feel like I could come out of that and stay in a relationship with you and be like, you know what? Like, okay, let's talk about this. Let's work through this. There's a healing aspect that needs to happen. We need to do some work here as a couple. But emotionally, like if you were telling somebody else.

That I love them. The thing, yes, like I would be like, then why are we together then? What are we doing with this? You know what I mean? And if that wasn't reciprocated on the other side, then I would be like, I'm wasting my time in this relationship because I, I don't think a person deserves to be in a relationship where it is one person just absolutely adores the other person, and the other person is just.

Well, it's nice that they're around. Yeah, I, I mean, I get it, right? Like, to me, they're so interconnected. Mm-hmm. Even when I was single, I was not like a one night stand guy. Yeah. There was always like something that emotionally I had to attach to. I rarely had transactional sex. Mm-hmm. Which makes sense now that I'm able to look back.

It wasn't my thing. I felt like I was broken. 'cause I had all of these guy friends who were just on these conquests. Yeah. And realize I had a, I, I look back, I had a higher standard for myself. I wanted some connection. Right. So the thought like of them being separate, like if you're letting someone I. Like, go down on you or, or have sex with you, enter you in any which way?

Like to me, there's such emotion tied to it anyway. You might as well be telling you you love them. Yeah. But like if I'm, I'm thinking more along the lines of like, I couldn't get over not a. An ongoing thing because I feel like that's, that is a bo That's both right. It's a physical and an emotional relationship.

But if I'm saying like if somebody did it like a one night stand, like if you don't even know this person's story, right, or really know them, and it was just something that they were like, you're at a club. You're drinking. Something happened. Like that's what I'm saying. I could get over that more than I could get over a long-term emotional affair where you're like, I got that.

You're right. Traveling with this person and I don't fucking know about it. Or you have this secret life with somebody. We, we, we've seen that where a man was going on vacation with his family and his girlfriend was over at the next hotel. Yeah. That is so fucked up. I agree. My que well, how about you answer the question if it was a physical or emotional, what?

I just told you what's worse. I know. If you had to separate the two, what would be worse? I don't know. I don't, I, I think my ego is not strong enough and maybe this is a weakness, like, or maybe I put integrity as such a high thing that I don't think maybe I have you as such a high standard that I don't think I can get over it.

My thing would be like, how could you not collide with me first? Before you got to that point. Right. Um, because that's the way I would do it. Right. Like I, I don't think, I don't feel that, oh, I was fucked up and I was at a strip club and I slipped into her by accident is a fucking reality. Yeah. Well as a strip club cheating.

I mean, I've, I haven't been in men's rooms where they're paying for lap dances. Like, is a girl grinding on you? Cheating? I haven't been to strip club since my, I I am not saying you specifically, I'm saying I think it's, I think, you know, if, if a girl is, you know, in the private room and grinding on you till you, you know.

Dry humping you to your nut. That's pretty much cheating. Yeah, I agree. And it sucks too because I'm sure there's a lot of people that are be like, fuck Dave, man, like bro, code and Yeah, exactly. And I'd be like, you, you do, you baby. And if your wife's cool with it and every, you got an arrangement that works for you.

Right. And we're not, and there's, there are. I am judging for me. Yeah. And so when I'm judging and coming out and you want a disclaimer, here's a disclaimer. These are my fucking standards for me. Yeah. This is what works for me. Yeah. And yes, because they work for me and I hold them for my standards. I'm obviously not, not that I'm not in agreement like I am very like you do you baby.

Yeah. If you came to me and said, I'm having some problems in my marriage. And then you said, I'm also at the strip club. Yeah. I'd be like, well, maybe you should fucking look at this. Yeah, totally. Right. And so, but if you're not having problems in your marriage and you got a great marriage and you got an understanding, people swing and some, some women, men wanna, you know the fuck many people, that's actually a fun thing for them.

Yeah, great. Yeah. If that's what works for you now. Right. In my own anecdotal world, I rarely see these long-term relationships work out. If you are letting you know your wife get blown out by 50 men, but hey, who the fuck am I to say? Right? Right. But I just know what works for me, right? And I know that this, it would take extenuating circumstances at the highest degree.

Tons of conversations. Like, it'd be very hard for me to get over it. Mm-hmm. It just would. Yeah. Depending upon who, what, when, where, how. Well, I think that that has a lot to do with it, with most relationships. It's like, who was it? Right? Like, like I got cheated on when I was cheated on. It was a close friend of mine, and I was like, what the hell?

You know what I mean? If it was just some random, at a different school or something, I'd be like, oh, okay. Like whatever. But like the fact that it was somebody that knew me intimately as a friend, I was like, how fucking dare you? You know what I mean? And what's crazy is there's a whole degradation part where like then you get more sexually aroused and you wanna, you, you almost wanna sleep with that person because it's like, it's off.

It's supposed to be off limits. Yes, yes. And then the person who cheated on maybe, you know, like. You wanna prove and recon it is like your mine is a fucked up thing and game. Mm-hmm. And it's like, is monogamy even the way it should be? Right. And and that's where the 10 year marriage comes in. Because I don't think I, my, my truest of self, right, believes that monogamy isn't actually a thing, right?

And I'm like, really? You're gonna be with one person your whole life? I mean, I obviously had experience before we met, and so I've like been there, done that. I'm good. That's why it's so important to recommit over and over again, right? It's because. No, like if I felt trapped or like I was controlled or like I couldn't leave a relationship and I didn't feel like I had that autonomy, like I would feel trapped.

And I think you would too. The fact that you like choose each other, you get to instead of have to, is the thing that makes it so different and is the thing that can make a relationship be like just a normal relationship. Go to an outstanding relationship because you're choosing over and over consciously.

Not just going through the motions or it's on a piece of paper or that's how it's always been done. Or we live somewhere where that's just what you do. You just stayed married for 70 years. Yeah. And you stop talking after you've been married for 25. You know what I mean? Like that to me doesn't work. So you made me think of something.

So here's a wild idea. Mm-hmm. Let's say you get to the end of the contract, or you just, you're ready to kill the contract. Mm-hmm. Right? Rather than divorce. Yep. And you're like, here's some issues in our relationship. And you know what? We can't figure it out, but you, it's almost like, I'm gonna do a real estate thing here.

Oh, I already know where you're going with this, and I love it. Go ahead. All right. So like in real estate, when you take a listing, it's usually for six months or for a year, it's a contract. And normally the way it works is like the seller always thinks their house is worth more than it is. Even realtors do this and the realtor is trying to say no.

Well, it's not. And so there's this like tug of war and the listing agent doesn't really want to tell the truth. To the seller because they want to actually sell their house. This is the same shit in relationships, right? Mm-hmm. It's really a relationship that no one's telling the fucking truth. Mm-hmm.

You're not telling the truth. The house is not selling. The seller is getting frustrated. Your the agent is coming up with, oh, we need new pictures. We need this. But the truth is the, the first 99 reasons why it's not selling. And probably the hundredth is because it's priced too high. And so what a realtor will do, or what I will tell the realtor is, if you think you're losing the listing and the contract is up, why don't you just tell them the truth?

You got nothing to lose. Yeah, right. Which you should have been doing the entire time. Yeah. Right. That's a great thing. What if, and I, I know you know where I'm going with this. You're at the end of this contract. And you're like, well, fuck it. It's over anyway. This, maybe this is what separation is. Mm-hmm.

Right. I'm gonna go see what it's like. I like, I know if two people lived in two, they bought another house, they separated in two, they live in two different houses. Maybe you bang out a couple of people, maybe it doesn't hurt If you're like, well, fuck, we're, we're done. Mm-hmm. This is done. So, you know what I mean?

And so each person kind of starts playing this like. You see? Oh see, I was going complete opposite. I'm not just saying sex, I'm just saying like, like you got nothing to lose. Yeah. Alright, so maybe we're, and I want to hear what you're going before you get to that point. You have the absolute truth conversation.

Yeah. The hard one, like the inevitable is gonna happen anyways. You're either gonna grow from it or you're gonna let it die. The one that may hurt, like we just asked Chad, GBT, these really tough questions, these prompts that were incredible, like. What am I missing? Yeah, exactly. And it gutted us. Mm-hmm. To hear the truth, regardless, maybe that conversation needs to happen at the end of the 10 year marriage and then it, and if the gutted truth is the separation, right?

Yeah. Because everything's on the fucking table at this point. It's pretty much. Try something different or die. What were you gonna say though? I'm curious now. No, I was just gonna say, I thought you were talking about like when you were go to renew a contract, like how if it's all on the table, you can decide what type of relationship intimately and emotionally you wanna be in with that person because maybe there is a part of you that's like, Hey, like, and that's what I think.

Could be such a huge benefit of the 10 year marriage, right? Like if somebody's getting married, getting divorced, or they're just like, listen, I'm not renewing this contract with this person, but they have children, or they have, maybe they're really good friends, or maybe they have really great sex, but they're terrible at being married, whatever it is.

Like, what could you create? As like part of that contract to be like, here's how we're gonna stay connected, but here's how we're also gonna do our own thing. Right? Like, you know, grading a student as a teacher. Right. Like, excellent, satisfactory needs improvement. Mm-hmm. Right. Because you could look at the end of this contract from multiple different ways.

Like, you know what, I, I love this relationship, but me, if I'm being honest with myself, here are the parts that I would like to see. Improved. Improved. Mm-hmm. You gotta be willing to hold the space or like, shit, we are at an impasse here. Yep. Like what? This needs to change. Or it's like, this is obvious, we're not being renewed, but I always say, if you've loved this person enough to walk down an aisle or to buy a fucking $20,000 ring, or even more important have kids do financial commitments with, there was something there that's worth at least.

Fighting for on some level. Mm-hmm. Right? Yep. Yeah. It's a cheating topic. It goes full circle right in. And the contract could be such a valuable tool for somebody that has been in a cheating relationship on like, okay, this next contract of ours, this next five, maybe you don't do a 10 year marriage contract because now you're like, Hmm, I gotta, let's see how we heal in the next three years.

Right? And maybe it's like, here's. You know, if it was you and I and you cheated, I'd be like, listen, let's give it three years. Let's see how much healing we could do. Let's, but these are the things that I require us to work on, and if you're not willing to meet me there, then I'm not interested. You willing?

Gotta be careful with that. But if meet me there. Why? Because I think in that situation, like, listen, the closest we came to divorce was when I had like a freak out in Thailand. Mm-hmm. Right? And if anything, I cheated on you on that. Trip by not fulfilling the trip that you wanted to do. Mm-hmm. So it was a betrayal.

You were so upset and so angry that I started with like, I will do whatever it takes to fi to fix this. Mm-hmm. If I stayed in that space, our relationship would've become so unbalanced. Yeah, that I would've died. I hit a point where I was, no, I'm not saying that the person becomes like a servant to the person you gotta be, but you gotta be careful.

You get unbalanced. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? If, if one person, I got to a point where I was like, well, fuck that, I'm, she's got her own shit. Well, I was, I was talking more about the, the like, listen, if, like, if it even gets to that point, like I would. For us to move forward with this, this relationship at all.

Like, it's a requirement for me. Like if you feel the need or you feel the desire to go elsewhere and to like venture off, just have the conversation with me so we don't have to go through this whole fucking mess. But, so let's, I mean, listen, I know we're veering off a little bit, but this is timely and in the, in the, mm-hmm.

In the moment. If you are having a three year plan or a five year plan, when you're renewing, you gotta be careful. That what you want is not coming out as the other person's want because of lack of imagination or because you want to make the other person happy. Mm-hmm. Because there's one person may have a clear vision, the other person doesn't have a clear vision, so they will just jump on and then ultimately will wake up in a couple years and be like, shit, this is somebody else's, this is what I want, isn't what I wanted.

Yeah, exactly right. Mm-hmm. And so, I mean, that happens a little bit. And then. You gotta have the courage to be able to give it and take it, because I could see this going fucking south quickly. Yeah. Where you're like, I want, it's one thing to be like, I want my life to look, be like, maybe this is the way to go about it.

I want my white life to look like this. This is what I might, the way I foresee this. Mm-hmm. And this is how I see the person who is with me. In this picture, and when both people do, that's why I always say, if you're gonna do this, you need to first do the work inside and go ask those questions. I ask every person I coach, who are you?

What do you want, and what are you willing to let go of? Yep. Right? Because it's gonna be very hard to have this conversation if you don't know who you are. Right. And you don't know what you want. Agreed. And like to your point with even the Thailand thing, like it's not fair to the person. Like if that that person cheated and let's just say they really do wanna be in that relationship and they wanna heal from it and they wanna grow and they wanna like see it through, it's not fair to always, always go back there.

Right. Every argument you have now you're bringing up that like at some point. If you are going to get somewhere in your relationship as a couple, you're gonna have to heal from that both sides. Like you can't just keep bringing up old shit without a, or at least accept it Exactly. Because you're gonna accept it or move on.

Because exactly at some point like, yes, did they make a mistake? They did it. They chose something that didn't serve them and the relationship, but at what point are you gonna let that go instead of constantly bringing it up to the surface and never fully letting them let that go? Because we are human and we do make mistakes.

Bless you. Yeah, because then, because that's not fair either. The affronted party is basically holding them both people hostage for the rest of their relationship. Right. And then, and then they're just gonna wanna go cheat. Right? Like if every single time Yeah. Somebody brought up something that I did wrong, I'd be like, well, fuck you, then I'm gonna fucking go do it.

Yeah. If you're just always thinking I'm doing that. It is interesting though that cheating is the, is like the main thing. That is unforgivable in a lot of relationships. Um, for me, a lack of respect Yeah. Is almost as worse. So you say what's emotional? Like if I had. A partner that was like constantly like being a hater in front of the people that I love and not respecting me.

Mm-hmm. I think I'd be outta that relationship quicker. Yeah, I agree with that. Which cheating is a lack of respect anyway. So it's the same bullshit. Right, exactly. Lack of respect for yourself. We should, we should get a, a throuple on here. Have a conversation with the throuple because I feel like that's so interesting 'cause it's like every time I'm around these people I love to swing or whatever, they're like, I'm like.

Don't invite me into the fucking jacuzzi. I, okay. Well, I doubt, I'm just saying like, I was just like, Aubrey Marcus, I think is in a throuple now. Yeah. Right. And I find it so interesting because like to me, I'm not even judging as like that's, there's something wrong with that. I'm so curious to be like, wait a minute, how does this work?

Like. Is this person as emotionally involved as this other person? Or is it kind of like these two and then this one comes in? Well, look at Dan Arian with his situation. Well, yeah, he's not a throuple, he's just, I understand, but like a single dude. He'll even say how women didn't take him seriously and whatever.

Yeah, there's, it's all about healing and it's why it's so interesting with Ory Marcus, and some people have come out against him, like he's all about healing and it's like, what in there isn't? Healed. Right, right. And so I joke, I have three daughters. Mm-hmm. If Lola jumps last night, Lola jumped in Gigi's bed and started hugging me.

'cause she's like, I feel like I haven't spent any time with you lately. Mm-hmm. Gigi was literally just telling me to get away from her. She's hot, we, we were cuddling 'cause she didn't wanna be alone in her bed. The minute me and Lola started hugging, Gigi lost her mind. So if you take the sex part out of it, just trying to keep four women happy in my life.

Aw, poor baby is exhausting. I feel so bad for you and I'm not joking, like, like separate. Now if I had four wives, I would, as much as I love sex and orgasming, I don't even know if. After like three or four months of this like, oh shit, I guess I gotta go bang that one out tonight. You know what I mean? Like Yeah.

I'm not even joking. Like I think these are things that look a lot better on paper. Yeah. Than they're in real life than actually in reality. Yeah. There are certain themes and patterns that continuously come up in these conversations, and I believe the number one pattern or theme is that this is an.

Inside game a hundred percent first. And that any relationship, it always is. It always is. It always goes back to that. The relationship with yourself is going to determine, in most scenarios, your relationship with the outside world and it's gonna reflect in everything without a doubt, and it will change because you're a four dimensional, some people say five dimensional human being, and depending upon where you're at in these areas of your life, at any given time.

At any given moment will influence how you're showing up. Mm-hmm. That's one human. Then the other human's going through the same experience at the same time. So you have these two, four dimensional people dealing with different things in their life, highs and lows, and then it comes together. Mm-hmm.

There's a lot of different outcomes. Yeah. But if you start with like, I am accountable and responsible for my words and actions. It's a good place to start. Absolutely. And I think the other good place to start is instead of just going into an act of something like that, or, you know, start dabbling on a, an online dating site or something like that, just have the conversation with yourself and have it with your spouse or your significant other, because you're gonna avoid a lot of pain, a lot of anguish, a lot of, all of the bad things that come with it if you just like address it up front, right?

Like you could really solve some things. So I think a good, um, way to wrap this and Titus into bow is to, to say this before you cheat. Really think about who are you actually cheating on, and then proceed.