Healing Through Expanded States of Consciousness

We sit down with Katie Simons, Doctor of Pharmacy, who left the VA after COVID burnout revealed the cracks in the system.  She transitioned from symptom management to sovereignty.  Katie shares how plant medicine,  hypnotherapy, breath work, and meditation help to dismantle our default patterns. Katie explains why safety and nervous system regulation come first, before any deep inner work.

If you’re curious about microdosing, ceremonial medicine, or simply finding a grounded path out of burnout and into sovereignty, this conversation offers tools, perspective, and real hope. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a comment to tell us what part shifted your thinking most.

Katie Simons, PharmD, BCPS, CCHT 

The Holistic Apothec, LLC:  www.theholisticapothec.com

The Next Perfect Step cohosts Kim McStay and Lori Tremblay are energy healers and teachers with their own healing practices. They seek to provide a platform to those who are searching for guidance on how to navigate the shift in global consciousness. The podcast embraces spiritually awakened conversation and invites guests to share their healing gifts and knowledge.   Contact the hosts: thenextperfectstep@gmail.com.

Transcript

Meet Dr. Katie Simons

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the next perfect step. I'm Lori Tremblay. I'm Kim McStay, and we are so looking forward to this discussion. Katie Simons is a doctor of pharmacy and is going to talk to us a lot about her um her her uh actually medicine healing through expanded states of consciousness, which is very intriguing to me. She will be discussing plant medicine, transpersonal hyp hip hypnotherapy, um, microdosing, and how she facilitates medication tapering. So, Katie, we are so excited to have you here. Thank you for coming and being on this podcast. Absolutely. Thank you, ladies, for having me. Great. So if you could maybe even start off by kind of explaining to us what it is that you do and why you feel it's so helpful for people.

From VA Pharmacist To Burnout

Discovering Psychedelics And New Paths

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah. Absolutely. Um I describe what I do now as coaching, hypnotherapy, and plant medicine facilitation. And I got here. May I discuss how I got here? How does that sound? Okay. Um I, you know, my journey started with my father's a pharmacist, and in high school, he it was like a strong encouragement to pick pick a thing to do. And pharmacy is a great career, and so go get your doctorate in pharmacy. So that's what I did. Um I found a passion for it, my fourth year in doctoral school, when I finally got to practice clinically. And so after graduating from school, I went and got a um a furthering education in residency and then worked in the VA system for 10 years. And for a lot of those years, it really was my dream job. I was very passionate about caring for the veterans of this country and really making an impact in the healthcare system that I worked in. And COVID kind of pulled away all of my idealistic blinders. And it was hard to see a system, not just the VA system, but the entire healthcare system in the country, go under a stress test and have all of the cracks exposed. And to realize that I had been pouring a lot of energy into um trying to improve a system. Because at that point I wasn't working for a pharmacy anymore. I'd I'd started working for the director's office in more of a patient safety change management position, and that all of that effort was truly a hamster wheel, and um that the priorities can shift like this. And then the focus changes from really trying to improve the outcomes of patients and the care that they're getting, and as well as the environment that healthcare workers are working in to um a different set of numbers and a different set of sets set of stats. And it was really um it was really revealing to me. Uh, so there was a lot of burnout that happened, and I had to step away from the system. And when I did, it was a moment in life as well where I'd been going through a divorce and things were challenging. And I really had to soul search of like what am I going to put my energy into and what does make a difference for people. Um, and I'd spent, you know, the last 12 years of my life being a closeted psychonaut and really diving into states of altered consciousness with lots of different psychedelic substances. And they they had really changed my perspective on life and on reality and on relationships and lots of different things. And so when I stepped out of the healthcare system, the thing that made the most sense to me was stepping into supporting the psychedelic space with the knowledge that I had. And that's kind of where things started to unfold from as far as how I got to where I am now. It started with plant medicine and then it became this: oh, there's lots of other ways to expand one's consciousness and one's understanding and to heal, if you will, the unraveling of conditioning that we're all really set into. Um, and so it has really evolved into um breath work and hypnotherapy and meditation, and what are these other tools that are available to us to be able to step out of the suffering that I think culturally we're all really mired in. So that's kind of what I do and how I got there in uh abbreviated state.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

That sounds very interesting. I I have a question about what you said about breaking away from um imprinted uh patterns and things like that that we've been programmed into. So that like the plant medicine really helps you kind of break away from that. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, I think plant medicine. Yeah, I think plant medicine is a in a very powerful tool for being able to disrupt the ways that we think and allow us to see different perspectives and allow us to see how we're thinking and how what we believe subconsciously is driving a lot of how we show up. And it's so it's so subconscious, we're not aware of it. We're on autopilot and it causes us suffering, it causes self-sabotaging, it causes us to be stuck and have symptoms of depression or physical illness or lots of different things. And I think psychedelics, although they may not be the tool that's appropriate for everyone in where exactly where they are, is an extremely powerful tool in breaking us out of those patterns so that we can gain some insight.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah, the gaining insight I think is is is crucial. And, you know, I I deal with a lot of people that are kind of nervous about going from the medical world into something alternative like that. And sometimes plant medicine and with the ayahuasca and things like that might be overwhelming for some people. So what would you suggest, or how would you um, you know, because you're a professional and you're a doctor in pharmacy, so you know what you're doing, how would you um help to alleviate some of the concerns that people might have shifting from medications to um plant medicine and microdosing? Yeah, too.

Breaking Patterns With Plant Medicine

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Yeah. Um it really is, it's a it's a paradigm shift. And I think that's one thing that we when holding these spaces is so important to realize that it's it is scary, and and that's okay. It's okay to realize that we culturally in the healthcare model think a certain way about symptoms and what we call disease and and how we treat those things. And when we're we're stepping out of that into a healing model where plant medicines are used, it is a completely different shift into my body and I have the capacity to transform and to change and to step out of suffering. There's a lot of responsibility in that. There's a lot of, it's it's a completely different way of thinking about it. And so in holding that with people, it really is meeting them where they're at and what is your relationship with the medications that you're taking, or with the diagnosis that you might have, or with the symptoms that bother you every day. Like let's start there. And can we shift your perspective on that enough to give you some space to realize that you can, there's movement in here, that you can't, that things can change. You're not stuck, you're not broken. And that mentality keeps you stuck and broken. So, how do we move out of that? And sometimes the place to meet someone is, you know, I think the first step is always going back to the body. Like, how do we decompress your nervous system and get you to a place where you can feel your feelings and you can emote them and get some things moving? Because we're all, I think, culturally really used to being in this contracted nervous system state where we're kind of frozen and stuck. And so, what does it mean to feel your anger and to feel your sadness and to emote those things in a safe place? And so sometimes the first step is like, let's get you a tool like breath work that helps you do those things. And then we can start talking about deeper work and the tools that we can introduce slowly in small doses, maybe in microdoses, to do that. And then when it comes to medications, it's like some people are ready to try to come off of them, and some people it's that's just not the time yet, and that's okay. So, how do we how do we work with all of that individually in a holistic manner? That like it's not just one way or the highway um or putting you in a box, like I think a lot of diagnoses in the medical system kind of do in a lot of ways. So did that answer your question? It did, it did.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

I you know, because I I know like so when you're looking at the work that you do with people, like how do you feel that when you do use the microdosing or when you use plant medicine, like how does that actually um show up? Like, you know, do you see differences? Do you um if that makes any sense?

Easing Fears And Paradigm Shifts

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yeah, yeah. Um, I tell people I think microdosing has three different roles. One role is it allows people to have easier access to their emotions that need to come to the surface. And I see this again and again that whatever needs to come up that the body's like been holding on to and it needs to come up and out and be processed and felt, it will come up. And so sometimes that's happiness and like calmness and a sense of peace and a quieting of the mind. Sometimes that's anger and frustration and irritability. It it really runs the gamut of what does that person need? What is their body saying? And that and microdosing really just helps open that up in a way that's like just a little bit at a time, not overwhelmingly, but just a little bit. Um the second role is it really in from a neuroscience standpoint, it disrupts what we call what's called the default mode network, which is this pattern of thinking, of brain firing in your brain that happens behind the scenes. And it's like running in a in a circle. When dogs are like in a fenced-in area, they run in a circle and then they'll wear out the grass and then they'll wear in a path. It's like that in the brain of how we think and how we automatically behave, and it disrupts that. So it allows us that that space of like, oh, I am aware now of how I'm doing this thing automatically, and maybe there's a different perspective or a different belief or a different something that I can now have space for. And I for me, the third role of any plant medicine is that they're teachers. And I don't have an explanation for that other than my own experience of these are conscious beings that we put in our bodies and they teach us things and they teach everyone different things. What that needs to come to them at that time. And when we honor them that way, when we when we put them in our bodies, I think we get a lot more out of the practice of microdosing.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yeah, I remember um taking an herbal class and we were doing um flower essences, and we had to meditate with the plant and and then write down the message that you got, and then there's the Bach flower um remedy book. So I comp you would compare what you got in meditation to what was in the book, and nine times out of ten, it was the same message what they were there for to um assist you with. Yeah. So I know I think that's you're talking about communication and conscious beings, and I sort of brought that home to me at that time. I was like, wow, this is amazing. Yeah. And it just, you know, keeps going.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah, and and you see this in in dongle medicine, right? Like the Amazonian shamans sit with the diets of a plant, and they're not always psychoactive plants, but they always teach them things, and that's you know, the commonality, the the uh the thread of what each plant has to teach um does come through. Uh, and it does it doesn't need to be a psychoactive plant.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

So, is that what you mean by the quantum consciousness that you have on your website? You talked about that. Is that what that means? Or could you explain that to the listeners and to me, obviously?

Nervous System First: Breath And Safety

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, yeah. So, quantum consciousness is um a technique that I was taught in hypnotherapy school, and it comes from a man named Peter Smith. Uh, and instead of hypnotherapy, you usually go inward when you uh do an induction or a calming process. The process is to go inward and explore inward. With quantum consciousness, it's a very similar tech technique, but we expand. And so the idea is our consciousness is much bigger than us and our ego, and it is um what is available to it is everything, all time, all space, all consciousness, all information, all knowledge. And so when you expand past this body and past this mind and past past this identity and past this the 3D, then what is available to you is lots of knowledge and information um from the collective. And so it's uh just a different technique uh that kind of falls in the hypnotherapy world.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Um, thank you, Katie. I wanted to tell you thank you also for your um Instagram reels, they're very, very encouraging and inspirational, and you just share such wonderful wisdom. And I love just watching you on Instagram, but you also have a blog and um some um what workshops kind of.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, your workshops with women that you do.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah, yeah. I am starting my um the it's called The Path to Self-Sovereignty, your return to the feminine, and I'm starting my next round of it just in a couple weeks, actually. I do have one more spot available if there's anyone out there that wants to join, but that's been my passion. What's up? Do you offer that online or is that it's a virtual group we meet once a week on Wednesday nights uh for 16 weeks, and that's been a passion project of mind, of it's a compilation of what I've learned of what it means to step into sovereignty and true freedom, which I I think really is the outcome of what we call of healing work, and and that we do get there, and that there is an end to the arc of healing, and and that then there's a whole different body of work of what it means to exercise that freedom and live authentically. And those words are so uh like they can be kind of loaded and interpreted in various different ways. And so it's interesting to then put out a body of work of what does it mean to really understand this language and then experience it because cognitively we can understand it and and that's great, that's cool. Um, but the point is experiencing it in in life, in every day, and so that's really the goal of the women's group. And then the workshop coming up in April, I'm co-hosting with um a wonderful therapist colleague of mine, Liz, and we'll be talking about what it means to hold space for healing for people who are interested in doing that or stepping out of the healthcare or already in a healing role and um what we kind of have seen maybe missing from some of those spaces.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Well, my husband's a veteran, and so I you know appreciate your work with the veterans and now you're you know helping women. And can you talk about um what what your idea of sovereignty is? I I have my idea, but I want to I think it's such an amazing topic.

Three Roles Of Microdosing

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, absolutely. Um to me, sovereignty and living freely or living authentically are all really closely aligned concepts. Um and my understanding of it is that it builds from a reconnection to the body and a real deep understanding of the innate intelligence that our body has, and then growing from there into a deeper understanding of what is held in the subconscious mind and what the role of the ego and the conscious mind really are, and then it expands into what is spirit and what is soul, and who who am I really? And I I feel like living sovereignty sovereignly is really this pivot point when there's this experience of and maybe this will I'm gonna say it anyway. Um, this experience of realizing that there's no inherent meaning to life, and that I am the only one that gives my existence and my experience meaning, and I have to create the value system and the passion to then guide my experience, and that takes so much awareness and courage and willingness to step outside the frameworks and the conditionings that we've all been put into of like this is what life is supposed to look like, and this is how you're supposed to act, and and just coming back to no, this is my experience. So, what meaning am I giving to it? And how am I creating? Because we're all we're all innately create creative creatures, that's what you humans are, but that has become so distorted without a value system and a passion system that guides that for every individual. Um there's a concept in Egyptian um cosmology called Nefir, which is their concept of beauty, and it's really creating from this place of beauty, creating from this place of harmony and um like what is in balance, what is in alignment, and that comes from inside each one of us, and so it's it's like to live sovereignly to me is that level of self-awareness and alignment that and presentness of like moment to moment, like how am I creating? What am I doing? Where's my energy going? Um that's I think that's what that means to me.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

That's a beautiful answer. Thank you. I I feel like it's like a um when you're creating from within, and like you said, living on purpose from your values and your passion, it's a flow. It's just like you're in this energy of flow and whatever you're making it to be, whether it's loving, you know, or or whatever you're doing. But I I I feel like that's a a wonderful place to be.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

It is a wonderful place to be, and it and it's also very challenging. I I think realistically, like. It's uh it is it does it is challenging and it's supposed to be challenging, and that's a lot of the beauty in it, I think.

Conscious Plants And Tradition

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Um well, and like you said too earlier, like you know, that we have to get rid of all these um systems that we've been so trained in, paying attention to and following and showing up as. And when you do drop that, which I, you know, I mean, I'm in my 60s and I'm finally figuring out that I don't really want to follow that path anymore. It doesn't make sense to me. And I think, you know, what's happening in the world today is really showing us, it's coming up to the surface that, you know, is this really how we want to continue? You know, are we gonna continue having people instruct us on how to how to be ourselves and how to learn? And, you know, it's our divine right to be our own person. And so I think the work you're doing is incredible that way because, you know, your generation, I think is, you know, like we can help support that, but your generation really has to make that move and and to, you know, allow and like you said earlier, holding space for those who are shifting into that more um personal strength than what we've been given in the past. So I honor you for that. I think this can be amazing, amazing work. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

It is it is um it really is a passion just simply because I feel like as humans, we deserve to know our innate capacity and our innate power, and it is so much bigger than we are taught. Um and and that's the thing that gives me goosebumps, and like it's like oh, everybody deserves to experience this, not just know it, but experience it. And I realize that unfortunately not everybody will, and that a lot of times is a choice, and that's okay, but I feel like it's the the hill I will I will I will fight for.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

It's a good hill to fight for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Could you tell us a little bit about what you your mushroom drink that because I love that. Oh yeah. Yeah. And like what the benefits of the mushrooms are and things like that.

Quantum Consciousness Explained

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yes. Um, so I I love all types of mushrooms. And I um when I started really digging into the benefits of psilocybin, the benefits of functional mushrooms and what traditional Chinese medicine has been using for thousands of years really came to the surface too for me. And I started digging into different functional mushrooms and the benefits of them, and then looking for a way to ingest them that wasn't in pills or in horrible tasting drink mixes. And I couldn't find something that had the dose because you know, I'm a pharmacist, so dose still matters to me and the taste that I wanted. So I created my own formulation. Um, it's called my morning mushrooms, and it has lions, mane mushrooms, tremilla, and cordyceps in it, and as well as cacao and maca, mesquite, and some other superfoods. And um I really just created it so that I had something to drink every day that I enjoyed the taste of. Um, but it has turned into, you know, now putting it out there as a product. Um, but lion's mane is a mushroom that has been shown to help with neurogenesis. So regenerating nerves, which is really fascinating and it's been helpful for memory and cognition. Uh cordyceps has this molecule in it called cordycepin, which is not quite a stimulant, but gives more of an energy boost. And so it's a great way in the morning to get a little bit of an oomph that's not caffeine, if that's something that matters to people. And then um, Tramella has a molecule in it that is similar to hyaluronic acid. And so in traditional Chinese medicine, it's used for complexion and youthfulness. Um, and so that's those are the three mushrooms in that drink mix that and there will be more drink mixes, it's just a matter of um time and and learning entrepreneurial ship, which is a whole interesting thing and different learning curve.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

So I have a question about the lion's mane, because I I make my own tinctures and things like that. And what I've come to understand is that the lion's mane, if it's not like if it's in a powder form, it's not as strong for like the memory. Is that is that do you know any, you know, have you researched that at all?

SPEAKER_00 27:09

A little bit. My understanding is that there is a thought out there that some of the benefit is in the insoluble fibers of the mushroom, um, which depending on the type of extraction that's used, you could lose. Um and that there's a there's a thought process that there's an interaction between the gut microbiome, like the gut brain access, that actually helps with some of that memory benefit. I don't know that I've seen studies that like nail that down firmly. Um but I I do use a one-to-one water extracted mushroom powder extract in the drink mix. Um and yeah, I I can honestly say I've seen a difference, and it's fascinating because I've seen a difference in some of the people who have um ingested it as well. Um as far as um evidence of nerve regeneration. And so I do think it still has some of that, you know, has that benefit.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Right. Well, I have to say it tastes good because I had a client give me some from you. And I, you know, I'm like, this actually tastes pretty good. Yeah. I have to admit I add it to my coffee sometimes, you know, but um because I love my coffee, but it really is tasty. And I haven't been I haven't been taking it that long. So I'll be really curious to see how that that works too.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah, I think it's interesting when it comes to cognition and how our brains function, and there's so many different supplements that are showing benefit out there from like DHA omega-3s to creatine and uh and some really make a profound difference for some people and some don't. And I think that really is just a matter of like diet and um lifestyle and lots of different things. And so I always tell people like if you feel like this makes a difference for you, keep taking it. But if it doesn't and you and it's not enjoy, you know, you don't enjoy it, then you then don't, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

I like that. Yeah, that's good common sense advice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah. So is there anything you'd like to share uh um that you do like with your workshops or anything else that you'd like to share with our viewers and listeners?

What Living Sovereignly Means

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yeah. Um we didn't touch on on ceremonial medicine work yet. And um it has been an evolution in my life to work with different plant medicines and some synthetics. Um my journey with psychedelics started with MDMA, and that was a very life-trans, like transforming experience for me at the time, and then graduated into really trying all the things at different doses and different settings in a very like haphazard way that I learned a lot from. And I really landed with psilocybin mushrooms being my main teacher uh for a while. And then I went to my first ayahuasca ceremonies. And my first four ayahuasca ceremonies I did in Costa Rica, and they were uh just the most transform, it was the most transformative experience that I had had to date. It was like five years of therapy in a week, and um and I had been someone who had been doing my work for a while and using psychedelics to assist in that for a while, and it was still just the most profound thing to me. And it felt like a coming home of sorts, and it has been a huge part of my life since then. Um, really diving into uh understanding the ceremonial space and then and then experiencing the ceremonial space and the deep tradition that is used with this particular medicine and the power of sitting in circle with other people and the power of the songs that are sung during ceremony and the subconscious messaging and vibrational healing that happens with the singing of that medicine has just fascinated me. Um and you know, I I have since ended up with a partner who is an iOS girl and has trained with this medicine for eight years, and it's just been a huge part of my continued growth and understanding, and I continue to see people come to ceremony and just have um profound experiences, and um yeah, so that is another huge part of life and another tool in the toolbox that is very intense. I I won't call it anything less than that, because it is um, but deeply, deeply um in uh a deep ally in what what I call the healing journey and the progression towards um living sovereignty sovereignly and freedom. Sounds like it's pretty powerful. Is it physically intense as well? Yes. Uh ayahuasca is a pr is considered a purgative medicine, and so a lot of um what some people experience is the uh purging of what no longer serves through the form of vomiting or going to the bathroom or crying or sweating or shaking. It is a it it can be a very physically intense experience. It can also be a very gentle experience. Um it every ceremony tends to be really different. Um and I can't say that I've been to two ceremonies that have been alike, and um I'm still in my infancy, but have sat in over 60 ceremonies at this point, and so it really is come as you are, and who is holding the space and how they're holding the space and where you are and who made the medicine and where it came from, and all those things make a difference, every single one of them. And I think I would have thought that was nonsense five years ago, but now I know better that it's not nonsense.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

You know, space in a ceremony that's supported and has the tradition and the knowledge, and so you're probably in a pretty safe space most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah, safety is a huge piece of doing intense work because if uh if a body does not feel safe, if a nervous system doesn't feel safe, nothing's gonna get done. And I I see that in working with people with psilocybin too, that um if the nervous system, the body hasn't been prepped to be able to be vulnerable, like and open up, then um our our bodies and our minds are intensely protective. Yeah. And they it you won't have an experience. And I do see this, I see that happen. Um and and it's not anybody's fault, it's it's a it's a signal from that person's body that there's more prep that needs to be done. And we need to find the tools that help that person open up.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Is that where the shamanic work comes in? Because you can get that in your on your website.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

It can be. Um shamanic work is such a fascinating thing because it really is, you know, the tradition of journeying on the behalf of somebody else. And as Western Westerners traveled to the jungle and and discovered ayahuasca and or traveled to Mexico and just discovered mushrooms with Marina Sabina, and you know, the the shift is instead of the shaman taking the medicine and journeying on your behalf, the Westerners want to take the medicine too. And um, that's not traditionally how it has ever been done. And so even shamanic practices, yeah, even shamanic practices that don't use medicine, the shaman is there to journey on the behalf of somebody else and bring back pieces of their soul or bring back information that's important to them. And that tradition is this really interesting intersect with where I think we are as humans today and what we need. And what we need is an understanding of our sovereignty and our freedom. And so how that tradition has then changed to support people in that process to come along with, to do their own work, to journey for themselves, is is it's a changing, it's a changing landscape in many places. In some places it's not, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Oh, that's really interesting. Very interesting. So where can people find um more about you and your work?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Uh my website's probably the easiest place, the holisticapothic.com. And it's the apothic is spelled A-P-O-T-H-E-C. Um, it has a little bit of all the things that I do that I can um freely put on the interwebs. Um, so there may not be all of these things on my website, but um, that is the easiest way to um find me and to contact me. Um Instagram is also a fine place. Um the same handle at the holistic apothic on Instagram. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Great. Thank you. Do you have anything else you'd like to add?

Functional Mushrooms And Formulation

SPEAKER_00 38:03

I think that covers a lot of a lot of my thoughts, and um I I just think there's a there's always the plug and encouragement for people that if there's any fascination or interest with any of this, there's no wrong place to start. Um and that it's not an endless, it's not an endless body of work. That there's a there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and um there are ways to live without suffering. Um as challenging as the human experience is, uh, and and that's uh that's a that's a real thing. It's not a um uh only some people get to do this kind of thing. It's it's it's an option for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

That's great advice. Thank you. Thank you. That's great advice. Yeah. I have really enjoyed having you with us today, Katie. It's been a pleasure and hope to have you back again. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so Kim and I are intuitive healers and teachers, and so these types of conversations are really important to us, and we hope that you and our listeners um feel the same way because it's just fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yes, it is fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Yeah. And we just want to say we are so grateful to our listeners for the growth of this podcast, and your comments and your likes really help us to target new ideas and what you're interested in. Um, and please share and hit that subscribe button because it's the best way to help us continue to grow. And we want to say thank you, and until next time, how is your intuition bringing you into your next perfect step?