A Founder's Life
Join me as I explore the powerful intersection of entrepreneurship, health & wellness, and parenthood. In each episode, I’ll be interviewing inspiring individuals who excel in one or more of these areas, sharing their stories, insights, and lessons. My goal is to provide valuable takeaways that can help you thrive both personally and professionally.
A Founder's Life
“Work-Life Balance Is a Lie (Unless You Do This)" - Ron Green - S2 - E9
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Ron Green has built 9 startups. But what he shares in this episode isn’t just about business — it’s about building a life that works.
As the CTO of Kung Fu AI, Ron is deep in the AI space. But behind his professional success lies a story of personal evolution: from burnout to balance, from overwork to intentional living.
In this conversation, Ron shares:
• The real cost of “grind culture” and how it backfires
• How he balances intense work with family, health, and fun
• His philosophy on fitness, sleep, and why moderation wins
• Hard-won startup lessons from biotech to AI
• What most people get wrong about AI’s future
• Why failing forward is a strength, not a weakness
Whether you’re a founder, future entrepreneur, or simply someone trying to build a better life — this one is for you.
👇 Subscribe to A Founder’s Life for more honest, unfiltered founder stories:
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Timestamps:
00:00 – Meet Ron Green
01:00 – What Family Means to Ron
03:30 – Remote Work, Gen Z & Quality of Life
05:00 – Burnout & Diminishing Returns
07:00 – Work-Life Balance Tips
10:00 – Ron’s Health Philosophy
13:00 – The Role of Strength Training & Sleep
15:00 – Startup Journey & Biotech Breakthrough
18:00 – The AI Revolution is Faster Than You Think
22:00 – Building Kung Fu AI
24:00 – Best Advice for Founders
27:00 – Why Failure Isn’t a Stain
30:00 – Where to Find Ron
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It's funny, like there's all this hype around AI. I work in the field every day. Even I sometimes feel almost like I'm hyped out. I'm a I'm like a little tired of it. But that said, I honestly think most people are sleeping on just how much is changing and how quickly it's changing. I think we're just a handful of years away from AGI, and that is going to alter the entire business economic landscape in ways that most people aren't even really beginning to think about.
SPEAKER_01Hi there. You are listening to a founder's life, and I'm your host, Leo Gestetna. My guests and myself share our entrepreneurial journey and our methods for a balanced life. And I'm joined here today by Ron Green. Ron, thank you for joining us today. Would you like to introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'd be happy to. Thanks for having me, Leo. I'm Ron Green. I'm one of the co-founders and the chief technology officer of Kung Fu AI, an Austin-based uh company that uh helps um our clients with AI strategy and custom model engineering.
SPEAKER_01Sounds I'm looking forward to going to into that in more detail. So talk to me about uh family. What does family mean to you? I think you've got three kids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've got three boys. They're all in their 20s now. Uh family is a huge, huge part of our lives. It is um, I mean, it's foundational for me. I mean, I I don't know if there's anything more important than family um beyond, you know, even my children, my my my brothers, my sister, my parents, my my in-laws. It's one of the the most important things to me, period. Lovely. And the uh have the kids stayed locally or have they headed off across the U.S. Let's see. I've got I've got um one uh well, a couple in Colorado now, and then one in Austin, Texas. So spread out a little bit. Um I ex- I expect uh I expect one of them to probably stay in Colorado the rest of his life. He's he's up high in the mountains with his wife, and they could not be more happy there.
SPEAKER_01I think I I read something the other day that talked about the U.S. is one of the most portable countries in the world, meaning people do move. So if you think about most countries, either people don't move or they move once. Like someone might move to, say, London, but they're probably not going to then leave London, or maybe they'll leave somewhere locally, like in the the greater London area. But the US, people move all around the country, whether it be for love, for work, it's it's it's pretty.
SPEAKER_00I've heard that. I've heard that as well. And I I I've also noticed it seems like things have changed with a college bit. Um I I noticed that my kids' generation, there's much, much more um of a mixing uh at the college level. Meaning, when I when I went to school, everybody seemed to be from a 200-mile radius, and they have friends that they go to college with that are from the East Coast, the West Coast, the Midwest, you know, the South, all over the place. And so I think they build these connections in school that makes them feel like they can move around the country and almost anywhere they go, they would be able to stay with a friend and get to know the city. And then you couple that with uh the explosion and remote work because of the pandemic. I I ex I would imagine if if America has already been fairly um uh uh you know, sort of travel focused, that will only increase.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I uh I remember meeting someone back in 2021. So sort of into into the uh pandemic. And he'd moved from I think it was Colorado, to Hawaii. And he said that, and this was someone who was his senior role, I think COO or something like that in a business. And he said, you know, if I'm gonna work remotely, I might as well work where I'm enjoy being. And he said, Yes, I start at I can't remember what time, but call it 4 a.m. in the morning so that he's there early. But he said, you know, I'm fine with that, because by lunchtime I'm done. He's like, I hit you know, I'm like hit the golf course every afternoon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I I think there is a quality of life. And and and it's funny, I think, you know, our generation think that um sort of uh millennials and Gen Z, you know, the general opinion is they're lazy. And um I mean that that is the general I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's the general opinion. Um and uh you know our parents' generation probably think we were lazy, but but the the thing I find interesting is the next generation, especially Gen Z, have decided that there should be a quality of life. It's just not about working every hour. You know, one of the days where you know you've got to be the first in the office and the last to leave. You've got to put in 60, 80 hour weeks. No. You know, I think Gen Z actually, I think they have it right, by the way. Saying, I'm I'm happy to work hard, but no, I actually want to have my evenings, I want to have my weekends, and no, I don't want to work every hour. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I uh I look back, I I I wish I could if I could send back a message to time to the younger me. There's a couple of things I would communicate, and one was one would be um you are getting diminishing returns when you're going on hour like 10, 11, and 12 will work. You you know, I used to think, I used to think sleep was a mental thing, you know, it's willpower. And I look back now and I've been like, and I know I wasted so much time on trying to solve problems when I was stuck because my mind was just in a loop. And I what I needed to do was stop working, call it a day, or at minimum take a break and come back to it. And I and I I now can remember, like in hindsight, there were so many times I was stuck on a problem, you know, some coding, some coding software thing, and I might work for four hours and I would feel the whole time I'm just I'm an inch away from solving this. And then finally, when I decided to call it a day and jump in the car and leave the office, it I I wouldn't be a mile from the office. And then I would instantly know what was wrong. And I wasn't even thinking about the problem. It was I just had to free my brain up from that, that, that loop it was in that where I was just exploring dead ends. And so I'm a real big believer now that you have to have work-life balance, and there's only so many hours you can do top, top, like A plus level work consecutively. And and I think those two things go together.
SPEAKER_01Very true.
SPEAKER_00I I also think you need time off.
SPEAKER_01I I think America has a weird relationship with holidays. It does. Um it's like, oh, you know, I get 10 days off a year, but I shouldn't actually take them. The badge of honor is if I didn't take two days off. And you get, you know, there are, I don't know, let's call it another 10 public holidays, of which a lot of businesses don't actually close in those public holidays. So it's sort of like a badge of honor to be working every day. And, you know, Europe, the legal minimum is 20 days plus probably another 15 days of public holidays, and businesses are closed for public holidays.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And to be honest, most people are on more than 20 days. So in Europe, they probably end up taking, let's call it, 40 days off between public holidays and vacation. And if you look at the stats, they're no less productive than America.
SPEAKER_00Well, it goes back to the point we were just talking about, which is you know, you can have the illusion of productivity, right? You know, just because you're working hard doesn't make you doesn't mean you're making a lot of progress. And, you know, at Kung Fu AI, my company, we literally have unlimited PTO. You can take as much time off as you want or as you need. And every year, you know, we look back and we we have to encourage people, please take some time off. You know, we've got all these hardworking, high achievers, and and invariably they're not even taking what I think is a, you know, an appropriate amount of time off to take care of yourself and get perspective. I always find like if I take three days off, it it's barely enough time to get your head unplugged, right? You spend the first day worrying about work and the second day kind of half worrying about work, and then the third day, maybe you're unplugged, and it's time to go back. You really need more of an extended break, in my opinion, um, if you're if you're gonna recharge your batteries.
SPEAKER_01So that's a good question, which is can you unplug? Are you good at saying, okay, I'm turning off, I'm done, I'm doing something completely different, I'm not gonna think about work.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I think so. You know, I've done as a serial entrepreneur, it's basically like a roller coaster ride. It is just absolutely um sometimes feast or famine. And I think you have to be able to um just put in a hard day and then finish it, put everything aside, relax, recharge, um, even over the weekends. So, you know what I mean? I I I'm not gonna lie, I'm probably guilty of working uh six days a week on average. But if I'm not working, I'm not working. I'm unplugged and I'm relaxed. And I don't feel I saw this interview the other day with um Jinsen Wong, the uh founder and CEO of NVIDIA, and he said, I have great work-life balance. I work seven days a week. I work from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. He said, if I go to a movie, I don't even remember it because I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking about work and I'm thinking about getting back to work. And he loves it. And so I, you know, I that's not what I want to do. Um, I think that would probably burn most people out. But the uh the point I'm making is I think everybody has to find their balance. And some people, some people want to grind it out, and that's where they find fulfillment. Um and I I think uh for the vast majority, a bit of balance is really what you need more than anything else. Moderation. And how does balance look for you? Great question. Um, balance for me is being able to spend time with family. It really comes back to that. Spending time with my wife uh every day, spending time with the kids as much as we can, you know, now with them uh, you know, in school or living abroad, um, spending time with, you know, my extended family. Um that for me is is uh the biggest thing. And then, you know, you've you've got your friend circles, and what's really nice about that is you can get together and talk about anything but work. And that to me that that goes a long way to um that goes a really long way to getting you in a different mind space because you know, I work in artificial intelligence, so I mean the uh it's it's hard to imagine the field could possibly be moving any faster than it is. So I, you know, I'll wake up on a Sunday and I'll just read technical white papers over coffee for four hours. But I kind of have to do that to stay up to date. I enjoy it and I love it. It's a part of my, it's a part of my um, you know, I consider my responsibilities as a CTO to be deeply aware of anything that's happening in our space. But for me, that's not a sacrifice, you know. Um it's a little bit of my Sunday, and I spend the rest of the time with my my my wife and family.
SPEAKER_01That's and it's your passion. That's right. So how does health look for you, whether that be physical health, mental health, nutrition, what what what does health look like?
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, that's a great question. I you know, again, I used to really have this warped perspective about sleep that it was mostly mental. And that, you know, if you if you had strong willpower, you could get by on five hours, six hours, you know, it was really just all in your head. Um and I used to, uh even going back to high school, I used to sleep so sadly little in the grand scheme of things, you know. Um now I I I don't think this is any, I don't think this is uh, you know, going to be revolutionary or anything like that. I think it's just common sense now. It's that you need good sleep, you need to exercise ideally every day, you need to eat healthy. And then I'm a big fan of moderation, you know, and I like the recursive moderation, meaning have moderation in everything, including moderation. Like every now and then blow it out, you know, go have fun. You don't you don't always want to be towing the line. So I think that those four things are the number one, those four, those four elements are the number top-tier priority things that I focus on to make sure that I'm in a healthy physical and mental state. And what do you like to do for uh your daily exercise you were talking about? Uh you know, I used to think that um, oh, as you got older, you needed less sort of strength focus, but uh there's all these, you know, medical studies coming out recently that's that are pointing to strength um uh routines being really important for um long-term health, which which almost feels counterintuitive to me. Um so I always try to do a combination of um some type of aerobic, um, whether it's you know, you even as simple as just walking might get your heart up if you're you're doing hills. I'm I'm here in Austin. There are a lot of hills, so you can just walk those and you're and you're in great shape. Uh and that coupled with, you know, sort of core and functional strength is is are the main ways I do uh sort of check the box on the exercise.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely right. A lot of studies saying that as you get older, uh weightlifting uh becomes more important. It's interesting how these things change. And a lot of studies talking about, well, they've probably been there a long time, saying how sleep is needed to recover. I mean, and I've noticed it. I mean, I wear an aura, but you know, I mean, I can see if I'm going for a run and I've had a good night's sleep, my performance is fundamentally different than if I haven't had a good night's sleep.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I uh I uh I just bought my wife on Aura like a month ago. She loves it. And I was at a dinner meeting last night. I think I think half the dozen, half of the dozen people there were wearing an aura reading as well. Yeah, that's they've done a good job of uh taking a lot of the market.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um it's a good product, too. So yeah, they're definitely getting some competitors now. Um but but it is a good product. And so we skirted around it, but talk a little more about work, both your work journey as a serial entrepreneur, so your journey that has taken you to where you are now, and then talk to us a little bit more about uh Kungfu AI.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'd I I'd be delighted to. So my background is in computer science, and then I did a master's in artificial intelligence uh actually back in the 90s, back before AI was cool. And so um I lucked out, I was working at a one of my like my second job out of college. I got a job at an early stage biotech startup, and we were in uh Toronto, Canada, and we were building high-speed DNA sequencing hardware and software. And I just couldn't believe it. I mean, great, great people having a ball. Um, it opened my eyes that, you know, you can really kind of do anything in life. You don't, you know, these weren't people that had had experience building these systems. They were all incredibly, you know, smart, you know, hard-driven people. But um, it was mind-blowing to me that you could just decide you were going to go build a product in some space that you didn't have uh previous experience in. And we, you know, it was touch and go. This is my first startup. We um, I think I was employee number five or six or something like that. And we missed payroll one time and you know, it looked looked really dire. And then you look up a few years later, and we we we found market traction. We went public, we got acquired by um Bayer. Uh, and I was hooked from that point. I was like, all right, this is what I want to do with the rest of my life. I I really want to be in sort of the startup entrepreneurial game. And since then, I've done uh nine startups, most of those in the product space, um, almost every one of them in a different vertical. So I've worked in healthcare, security, telecommunications, biotech, et cetera. And I just consider myself to be really lucky because with the with the sort of a computer science background, software background, you can go work in almost any field. Yeah, you'll have a little bit of a learning curve with the domain knowledge, but typically six months to a year, and then you are fully, you know, fully up to speed and functional there. And then you couple that with the fact that, you know, I've been working in artificial intelligence now well over two decades. And for the vast majority of it, it was a case of us sort of over-promising and under-delivering. And that really started to change um about 10 years ago. So uh Kung Fu AI, which we're going on our eighth year now, I just couldn't be more happy. We help our clients build custom AI solutions. That can mean uh, you know, really, really advanced state-of-the-art custom AI models. Um, and it's a whole other end of the spectrum. We'll help them with strategy. If you don't know how to get started, you don't know what the opportunities are, what's real, what should you build, what should you buy, all that type of stuff. And the pace of AI, like I mentioned earlier, is moving at just this incredibly high frenetic pace. And so every week I feel like there are new advancements and and new things being developed that that literally move the needle and change what we can bring to market, change what our clients um can do, new things that they could use to automate or streamline, um, or introduce entirely new capabilities that would have been uh you know almost like science fiction 10 years ago.
SPEAKER_01That'll grow with uh like a snowball. It's it's it's definitely gonna be uh growing uh uh at some pretty rapid rates. And uh, you know, I think it'll be interesting to see where the uh evolution goes. I agree.
SPEAKER_00I I think the sky's the limit. I I think you're right. Um I it's funny, like there's all this hype around AI. I work in the field every day. Even I sometimes feel almost like I'm hyped out. I'm uh I'm like a little tired of it. But that said, I honestly think most people are sleeping on just how much is changing and how quickly it's changing. Um, I think we're just a handful of years away from AGI, and that is going to um alter the entire business economic landscape in ways that most people aren't even really beginning to think about.
SPEAKER_01And to be honest, I'm excited for that.
SPEAKER_00I am too. I'm I'm deeply excited about it. I mean, I get the I get the worry. I get the worry about jobs and disruption, I get the worry about uh alignment, you know, superalignment of these very sophisticated advanced models. It's a it's a challenging open question. But I truly would not be working in this field if I wasn't, you know, significantly more optimistic about our ability to uh move into a world where, you know, in the next 25 years, we're gonna we're gonna have artificial general intelligence, meaning we're gonna have these systems that are going to be capable of performing pretty much any human-level reasoning task at a human or superhuman ability. And you couple that with all the advancements going on within battery tech and robotics, um, you know, certainly within the next 20 years, we're gonna look back and and just marvel that so much of the of our lives that were um dictated by you know struggling and friction and uh all the all the you know elements that make life difficult and have made life difficult for millennia are just kind of slowly fading away. And and I think we're gonna see just unbelievable scientific advancements. Um we've done some work in the uh in the medical imaging space. In fact, we've got a model that's about to get FDA approval. Um it is going to be a game changer for breast cancer. Um so I think the quality of life, the level of abundance, um, the amount of physical backbreaking labor that people will have to perform, all of that is going to change enormously in our lifetime.
unknownI agree.
SPEAKER_00I totally agree. I can't I can't think of anything that would be more exciting, honestly.
SPEAKER_01So where are your team based? Are you obviously fully remote? Are they in the U.S.? You've got people around the world? How's that? And how are people in the team?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we're just under 50 people. We're all U.S. based. We do some work for uh the U.S. government. Um, and so because of that, we have to make sure everybody's U.S. citizens, everybody's U.S. base. So everybody's within the continental uh 48 states, but we have folks all over every time zone. Um we were pretty much concentrated here in Austin for a long time, but then when the pandemic happened and we closed the office, we took advantage if we couldn't be together, which you know really bums me out, we could at least take advantage of the ability to go higher and not be limited uh geographically by talent. So we have we have folks in uh uh you know half the states.
SPEAKER_01Makes sense. And what are you um so what do you like to do for fun?
SPEAKER_00Great question. Um big reader. I read uh uh a ton. Um I love to play the piano. Um so I spend probably uh several hours every weekend doing that. And it's it's just a great um uh I think it's a sort of a combo, great way to unwind and relax and also engage a different sort of creative element of my brain that I don't really get to um. necessarily uh work with as much at work when I'm I'm I'm more on the technical end of the spectrum.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And um what has been a pivotal moment in your life? So that can be personal, business, but what what has really been that sort of pivotal moment for you?
SPEAKER_00That's interesting. I think I've had you know in in in many ways sort of countless pivotal moments um where you you bump into somebody or you um have a conversation or somebody mentions something that really changes and alters the uh trajectory of your career. Probably the most important thing that's happened in the last decade is uh me meeting one of my my co-founders, um Steven Strauss, our CEO. He and I were both looking at doing um uh an AI-based startup we didn't know each other even though we ran in very um sort of uh similar circles professionally um and um the this is you know back in early 2018 and we knew we wanted to do something in AI. He wanted to do something on the services front I really was a product person. I had no services experience at all at that point. And he made a really compelling argument that things were things were moving too fast in AI for a product play and that it you know you we could go raise capital, go build a product within you know it could be 18 months, it could be 24 months, some new technical advancement could come out and literally wipe away all that work and just um decimate any value that we had created. And I thought that was a pretty compelling argument. And in hindsight he was totally right. I joke with him all the time I'm like I'm like man Steven it pains me to tell you this but you were right that was a good call. I do think things are changing. I do think moving towards a product mentality is a wise idea now. Things are firming up from a capabilities perspective in AI and settling down. But at that time I think it would have been crazy to do a product play in fact in fact the the landscape's littered with companies that tried to do AI product plays over the last eight years and it was just it was a bad move.
SPEAKER_01I think you you you were definitely right I mean um both in in uh when when you were launching the business and and now I've got I've got a couple of interesting uh AI we do quite a lot in AI and I've got a couple of interesting products I'd like to do one in particular problem is it's finding time I've got too many other too many businesses that are keeping me busy. But I've got one idea I'd love to either do myself or at least have someone else do it because I'd use it. Yeah yeah or I'll you'll have to do it yourself. Yeah that's definitely a separate conversation there. And um what's one piece of advice you could give to an aspiring entrepreneur?
SPEAKER_00I always tell people if you're thinking about you know building a company, if you're thinking about being an entrepreneur to understand it is way harder than it looks it is like a hundred times more stressful than you think. And I try to tell them like you know just imagine you know you start this new company nobody knows who you are nobody knows the name of your company nobody cares and just get trying to get attention out there is really difficult ignoring all the challenges around technical execution and product market fit and all that sort of stuff and it's it can be really really uh lonely and you've got to you know kind of always keep a stiff upper lip and and act like everything is going great yeah we're raising money and we're we're getting traction and in um it is an absolute grind most most startups fail and so I tell them unless like you literally you know if this is just something that you cannot live without don't do it because it is must just so much more difficult than people anticipate. But if you feel you need to do this, if this is something you really think you're up for I I I can't imagine going a different route. I mean on a personal basis I look back in hindsight and I'm like I think part of the reason I'm an entrepreneur is I really hate to be told what to do. I mean I it's a personal flaw probably but I I don't mind working hard um especially when I'm working for myself right and I control my time and I decide what my priorities are. And so I I really wouldn't have it any other way but people need to be you know under no illusion of just how difficult it is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah there's nothing quite like being an entrepreneur but it's definitely not an easy path. When I talk to uh there's a charity that I'm very involved in where we teach entrepreneurship to underserved communities I often say to the kids if you're looking for the easy path if you're looking to make money go get a job there's nothing more satisfying than being an entrepreneur but you're pretty sure you'll make a lot less money certainly in the short term maybe even the medium term long term hopefully you'll make more right that's right that's right and then you know and you remind me another thing I always tell people too is you know if you're going to do it and you're really committed to it, it's okay if you fail.
SPEAKER_00Most most entrepreneurs have um a string of failures in their past, right? But those failures which really weird I love this I I don't know if this is unique to America or not, but it's certainly true with the nonpreneural space here that if you have founded a company or two or three and they were all unsuccessful or moderately successful, people don't really care either way. They they really genuinely care that you got back up on the the uh on the horse and tried again. And I think the idea that that um you would have that resiliency is and that that drive and that determination is what people really care about. I I you know I've done I've done nine startups not all of them have been successful. Nobody ever asked me about that. Nobody ever says oh well tell me about the one that failed or the ones that were moderate successes. People always just um are blown away that you that you know I've done nine and they assume they were all successful and if they weren't that I must have learned a lot and was worth it. And um I think that's one of the cool things about entrepreneurship in America is that you really do get credit for trying you don't everything doesn't have to be a success.
SPEAKER_01You really will get credit for trying it it is a pretty uniquely American thing that um it's okay to fail. It's okay to go bankrupt it's it it it's actually not a stain whereas in a lot of countries it's it's very negative. You know it's yeah it's a pretty unique I think I wrote a blog uh a few months ago talking about how you learn more from your failures than your successes.
SPEAKER_00I believe that true I I believe that so much because um success can give you a false sense of security um a lot of times there's just luck and there's just happenstance. I've I've literally had um I've literally had ventures that um through no fault of own and just market timing had less upside outcomes than we should probably should have deserved um but I think it's probably offset by some where we had you know luck on our side and we may have uh come out uh on top in a way that was not really correlated with as much as we deserved. And that's the one that that's one of the reasons I you know go back to it's at bats, it's attempts. You know, the more at bats and attempts you have, even with the failures, you're just incrementally increasing the odds that you're going to figure it out. I saw the other day something like most successful startups are are started by founders in their late 40s and early 50s. And I think you know a large part of that is because it takes a long time to figure out how to do it correctly.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I haven't read that stat, but it makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah so uh how can people find you um uh on email ron r-on- at kungfu.ai you should shoot me a note I'm on uh I'm on uh Twitter X uh and um we have um a a podcast called Hidden Layers where we do pretty deep dive on dives on AI. Um I literally recorded a podcast yesterday with uh Dr. Carl Friston the like most cited living neuroscientist and his ideas on the free energy principle and active inference around um you know how our brains learn and adapt. And um uh I would encourage people to go check that out um and you know shoot me a note if you have any questions.
SPEAKER_01I love that well thank you for joining us today. Oh thank you so much for having me Leo appreciate it and thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed this conversation don't forget to subscribe to the channel tell your friends and leave a review. Thank you