A Founder's Life
Join me as I explore the powerful intersection of entrepreneurship, health & wellness, and parenthood. In each episode, I’ll be interviewing inspiring individuals who excel in one or more of these areas, sharing their stories, insights, and lessons. My goal is to provide valuable takeaways that can help you thrive both personally and professionally.
A Founder's Life
Believe in Yourself and Just Do It - Meredith Hirsh - S6 - E10
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👤 Connect with Today’s Guest – Meredith Hirsh
Website: meredithhirsh.com
Instagram: @WorkingHealthcare
Facebook: @WorkingHealthcare
LinkedIn: @meredithfhirsh
YouTube: @WorkingHealthcare
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/meredithfhirsh
Apple podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/working-healthcare/id1746629912
What happens when someone who never planned to work in medicine ends up building a thriving healthcare business?
In this episode, Meredith Hirsh shares her journey from advertising and teaching to becoming CEO of the Hirsh Center for Arthritis and Sports Medicine, a 60-person independent medical practice in Florida.
Meredith opens up about marriage at 21, raising three boys, balancing ambition with motherhood, flipping homes, going back for her MBA in her 40s, and the pivotal moment she realized founders can never fully walk away from their company.
We also discuss confidence, health, yoga, family priorities, and why many aspiring entrepreneurs simply need to believe in themselves and start.
What you’ll learn:
- Why confidence is critical for entrepreneurs
- How Meredith built a practice from scratch
- The reality of balancing business and motherhood
- Why founders must stay close to their business
- How health and mindset fuel long-term success
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Welcome to A Founder's Life. I'm your host, Leo Gastetna. On this show, we dive into the real stories behind the highs and lows of entrepreneurship and how we pursue a more balanced and meaningful life along the way. This podcast is sponsored by Thanks, helping founders like us scale with reliable remote talent. Now I'm excited today to be joined by Meredith Hirsch. Meredith, thank you for joining us. Would you like to introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_01Hi Meredith Hirsch. You did a great job introducing my name, and it's H-I-R-S-H for at the end when everybody wants to know how to reach me. I am the CEO of the Hirsch Center for Arthritis and Sports Medicine. We are an independent medical practice in Delry Beach, Florida, which is in Palm Beach County. We started our practice in 2007. I always wanted to own my own business, but I never thought it would be in medicine. Mom and dad are both in healthcare. My dad's a doctor, my mom's a social worker, my brother is a dermatologist. I married a doctor, and I ran as far away from medicine as I could. And my husband was working for a rheumatology practice right after fellowship. And it was about four years in, and he was offered partnership. And it was a different type of partnership than he had anticipated. We had just had our third child. We had a great big mortgage, and he was going to be paid less as a partner than he was paid as an associate. He was the busiest physician at the time. And I looked at him and I'm like, we have to start our own practice. And he is such a doctor, he is not a business person. And so we went and I rented space actually from a podiatrist at the time, which was outside of our non-compete area. And I negotiated our contracts. I hired the staff that we needed and I set everything up. And I thought he's fine and D. And now I'm going off on my own again. I got a call about six months later from LPN, our licensed practical nurse, who is still working for us to this day. And she said, Meredith, would you consider managing us? And I said, Why? She said, Well, the other two people at the time, their names were Becky and Tracy. And she said, Well, Becky and Tracy are off. I go, why are they off? And she said, Well, Dr. Hirsch gave them both the day off. So I'm doing this all by myself. I said, I will be there. And I always say, if people don't like me, blame Elizabeth. She's the reason why I am now the CEO of our medical practice. So we have about 60 employees. We have several doctors, a few APPs that work for us. And I also have my own podcast called Working Healthcare. I got involved in that because I'm very passionate about the advocacy side of medicine, helping doctors, helping patients. And I always say if you help doctors practice medicine, you will help patients, and vice versa. I also teach at Florida Atlantic University. I teach medical business management. And this is going to be my eighth and final year teaching at FAU. I actually just resigned from that post last week. So I think this is the first time I'm actually airing that out loud. And I have a consulting company called Hirsch Healthcare Solutions. And I pick the programs and the opportunities that I think bring value most to me and that I enjoy and I feel that I can help the doctors in which I consult. So that's a lot.
SPEAKER_00Wow, that is. And you were saying you get people, the advantage of your podcast is uh you do it in person in Miami. So especially in the winters, people like to come visit you.
SPEAKER_01I know. So I have probably about 60% of my guests who are in person. And I even have a friend of mine who's going to be a guest. He lives out in the San Francisco area and he happens to be at a conference in Orlando. And he's like, heck, I'll fly down for the day. We can do it in person. And I asked you where you were, and you told me Portugal. And I'm like, well, that may be a good excuse, Leo, to go to Portugal.
SPEAKER_00Perfect. I haven't used the in-person podcast studio, but literally opposite me is a hotel with a whole work co-work. They've got podcast studio in there.
SPEAKER_01That would be fun. I would love that. I was in Portugal, in Porto and Lisbon back in November. I'm very happy to go back.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for we'll do the next podcast here. And uh tell me a little more about your journey. So you said what the main business you do now is, but tell us a bit about the journey that got you to where you are.
SPEAKER_01So a big defining moment in my life was when I got married at 21. And I never in a million years thought that I would get married that young. I didn't even know if I wanted to get married, actually. I was planning to go to law school after college. I was at the University of Florida, and I met this boy who's now my husband, and he asked me out on a date, and I said no. And he worked really hard to get me out on a date. And I he said, why? I said, because you are my dad's ideal person for me. I'm 19 years old. This is not what I'm aiming for. And uh he was in medical school, he was from Miami, he was Jewish. This was those were my dad's three criteria. And uh we we did eventually go out on a date. And I thought he was coming over to break up with me three days before my LSAT. And instead, he asked me to marry him. I didn't answer him right away. I was hesitant. I knew that we were going our separate ways. He was doing his residency and I was going to law school. I was like, can't I just meet you in a few years? Can I meet you when I'm done with my journey? And uh I did say yes. And almost 30 years later, it really was the best decision I made. But that started my journey into what the hell am I gonna do? So we went up to Chicago. He started his training in Chicago. I had dreams of where I was going to law school. I since took the L set three times, thinking I was going back to law school. And I worked in advertising. My background degree is advertising in the College of Journalism. My first client, and I should have known that, was Abbott Laboratories, and I should have known that was my trajectory into healthcare. We moved shortly thereafter back down to Miami, and I didn't want to go to law school anymore. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I actually taught high school English and journalism for a couple of years in Miami. If you ever saw Dangerous Minds with Michelle Pfeiffer, I'm not blonde, I don't look like her, but man, that was the experience I had. So I taught for a couple of years. I realized I did not like the bureaucracy of the fourth largest school system in the country. And I went back into corporate America and I worked for the Tribune Company and I did online advertising for recruitment advertising. And then I got pregnant and had a baby. And my mom worked my entire life. She at one point lived, we lived in a different town in which than which my mom worked. She was only home on the weekends. I always had a live-in housekeeper, nanny, whatever you want to call her. My stepfather was around. My parents divorced when I was really young. And I had my brother, who is my partner in crime, who's two and a half years younger. And he and I were each other's best friends because I moved 13 times. I lived in 13 houses before I started high school. And my mom was very dedicated to her career her entire life until she died. And I didn't want to not see my kids. I wanted to be around for them. I didn't want that. I know I'm a very driven person, but I had to figure out a happy medium between what am I doing with my career and how am I raising these children? And my husband at the time, and still is my husband, but at the time he was in his chief medical medicine residency position. So he did three years of internal medicine. He took a year as chief resident, and then he was doing his fellowship. And I looked at him and I said, listen, I'm the primary breadwinner. And we had a mortgage at the time and we had a kid. And I said, you know, we can both be 5% parents, or I'll stay at home and you go do your thing, but you're gonna have to moonlight. And so he did. He moonlighted, he was home maybe two days a month, and I was at home. It was difficult. I didn't have a lot of help taking care of Ethan. He was my, he's now my oldest. I have three kids. And I don't think I'm a really good stay-at-home mom. I I I love my kid, but I love my children in bits and pieces because I think I love everything in bits and pieces. I get very bored and I like to do a lot of different things and move around. And I believe in quality over quantity. And so I ended up having a second child right after I wanted my kids to be close in age. I went back and got my mortgage brokerage license because my dad had left medicine and became a hard equity private lender. And at one point, he was the largest hard equity private lender in the state of Florida. And I became a mortgage broker to help and to make extra money. And what I did was when he foreclosed on a property, I went in and flipped it. I was like the original HGTV girl, except I wasn't on TV. And I would go in and renovate the house and sell it. And I received the commission. So that's what I did for a little while until we bring it into my husband realizing that he could not stay at the medical practice that he was at. I think I just wrapped in my whole journey, didn't I, Leo?
SPEAKER_00Perfect. I think you did. I mean, absolutely perfect. And so you said on the family side, you've got three kids now. I do. All boys?
SPEAKER_01All boys. A lot of testosterone in my house. All boys. But my youngest is 19. He'll be 20 in July. And uh none of them went into healthcare. So I don't know if I'm sad about that, happy about that. My two oldest are in the alcohol industry. My oldest started a data analytics company in age spirits, and my middle one is a winemaker. So there you go. I don't know if I force them into that.
SPEAKER_00Not a typical Jewish career. I mean, they're not a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Although my youngest is going into finance. So hey, he's he's he's bringing it in. He's a math major right now. So uh math and philosophy, which is a very interesting duo, but he's an he's a great, interesting kid.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Philosophy is one of those interesting ones that in the UK you study. You know, politics, politics, philosophy, and economics, I think is like the standard British degree. It's the kind of degree that does absolutely nothing. It's sort of a general exact.
SPEAKER_01But he's really great at math. And he was started out as a finance major, and people said to him, You're really great in math. And there are not a lot of people who look like you and act like you who are math majors. This would take you very far. And so my white Jewish boy who played rugby for one year at Duke and is a wrestler and has his junior black belt and MMA and has a great social life, is the math major, but he's going into finance, which totally makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Perfect. And Miami's a good place for that.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, he thinks he's living in New York, which is making me very sad.
SPEAKER_00Okay. How about the other two?
SPEAKER_01The other two, my oldest lives in New York. He just got engaged, and uh, so I am getting to be mother of the groom. So my husband and I are responsible for pulling this together. She's fabulous. She actually has the same college degree that I do from the University of Florida. So when they say you either marry your mother or the opposite of your mother, I guess in this situation, he's marrying somebody like his mother. But Samantha's great. She does ad sales for Amazon. And my second one is graduating in a month, God willing. And he studied fermentation science at Purdue, and he is moving out to Napa.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_01So uh you might be uh moving to New York or uh I'm not moving to New York, and it's funny you say that because you and I were talking about where do we live? You live everywhere. You don't have a home base. I like the stability because I moved around so much when I was younger. But I will tell you, even speaking to you over the last 30 minutes, I don't know if I want to buy that place in New York. Like I definitely want to stay where I am in South Florida. My in-laws are here, my brother's here, nieces, nephews, my whole family is down here. My friends, I like the stability, but I don't think I'm going to get that apartment, maybe in New York. Maybe I need to do what you do, just Airbnb it when I want to.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you know, the New Yorkers all buy a place in Miami, so you know.
SPEAKER_01Well, I have a condo down here, and it's interesting you say that, because I was really hoping to sell high and buy low, like sell it down here, and it's in Boca Ratone, and buy something in New York, but I don't think that's really happened, even in New York. I don't think the prices have really dropped. And I thought, with the whole political world going on in New York right now, I don't want to be too political, I thought maybe things would change. You know, all the Californians are now moving to Florida. This could be hot. And I'm like, I don't know, in 2026 that's not really happening.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it's the same as in California, which is, you know, talk of all the prices dropping. And I think the problem is the kind of thing you want to buy is not the kind of thing in the dropping, because the people, you know, it's it's you know, um, I don't I don't think, you know, it makes a a material difference because these property markets are so over. He said certainly Southern California, actually Northern California maybe, but Southern California. I don't think prices have dropped materially.
SPEAKER_01My son's dream is to have his own vineyard in California, and he continuously says, Mom, maybe it's something you want to invest in. This could be a great opportunity. I said, I will never have real estate in California. I am sorry.
SPEAKER_00I mean, Portugal, they got great wines. You could you could, for the price of your condo in Miami, you could probably buy a pretty big uh vineyard in um in Portugal.
SPEAKER_01I love that area. We did the Allentejo. We went all over Portugal when we were there in November. We actually went on a wine trip with friends, and I would certainly be open to Portugal. I love the fact that it is so diverse and they speak so many languages because as hard as I have tried, my Spanish sucks and I still speak Spanish. And I give up on Portuguese. I don't think that's ever happening.
SPEAKER_00I mean, the good news on in Portugal is a lot of people speak English. It's interesting. I find you go to Spain, which is just across the border, and actually people don't speak English outside of the pure touristy areas. Portugal, I find actually you know, decent percentage of the people you meet do speak English.
SPEAKER_01I'm not saying everyone does, but I was shocked when I was in Lisbon if somebody did not speak English. I was like, what's wrong with you? It was amazing how many people spoke English. And I was in Portugal pre-COVID, like 2018, 19. I remember. We did a whole bike trip through uh the valley in Portugal. My husband likes to bike, and so I always complain that when we go on vacation, I love to eat, but I don't want to gain weight. So he's like, Great, we're gonna do active trips. You'll bike for four or five hours and then you can eat. And I'm like, uh. So so we've done several trips where we go biking through the country. And so we did that 2018, 19, and I didn't feel like a lot of people spoke English. And then I just went back last year and I'm like, wow, everybody moved here, but you have a lot of expats in Portugal now.
SPEAKER_00But but I find most of the Portuguese speak English. I mean, in any kind of service type environment. So again, uh you go to Spain. I I was in Madrid uh a few months ago, and I was surprised how few people spoke English. I mean a major town, you know, like I went to a hospital for something to get a vaccination, like literally not a single person spoke English in Portugal. You'd find in any kind of service, whether it's restaurants, hospital, you know. I'm not saying 100% of people speak English, but there'll be enough people speak English that you'll you'll be fine there.
SPEAKER_01I question though, why people speak so much uh better English when they speak it and multiple languages in Portugal versus in Spain. And Portuguese is a much more difficult language to learn to begin with. And so you're getting the different sounds and it's a culmination of different languages that even develop Portuguese. And so you can always have somebody who speaks Portuguese who then speaks Spanish, but the Spaniards or anybody in Latin America, or anybody who speaks Spanish, doesn't speak Portuguese. I have someone who works for me and she's Brazilian, and she, I don't know, came to America about 20 years ago, and she speaks Spanish just as well as she speaks English.
SPEAKER_00Uh you know, one thing that surprised me is I mentioned to you I've uh spent a few months in Latin America recently. And I I think because I was just so spoiled by Portugal. I arrived in Argentina and I was Argentina, Uruguay, Peru, Panama. What surprised me is like English was uh not spoken. I mean, like lucky at Google Translate works really well on my phone, but like no one spoke any English at all. Which is fair enough, it's not like they need to, but it just surprised me because I'm so used to Portugal.
SPEAKER_01Well, you were just in Japan and my son Benjamin, my youngest, just went to Japan and he told me nobody speaks English. I was very That's very true.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Japan, it's very true, no one no one speaks English. The nice thing in Japan, and I by the way, I'm not sure nobody, but but outside of the pure touristy area, no one does. The nice thing in Japan is at least the signs of everywhere are also in English. Because if they were just in Japanese, we'd be completely screwed. So you can get the train, at least you can read the words.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's how it is. I went to the UAE for my MBA program. We had to do a semester, their idea of a semester was like eight days, but we had to do a program in a foreign country, and I chose the UAE because I thought it would be just so fascinating. It's so different than what I know. And I was there in 2011. Everything was in English, and everybody spoke English. Every sign, I had no problems. And again, like in Japan, I'd be screwed because I don't know these characters. I think it's the same with Arabic. But you know what? English is the language of business. So if you're going to be educated, if you are going to work in the business world, you have to speak English. So I say I might speak Spanglish, but I am really great in English. So we're good.
SPEAKER_00Although Miami, I mean, my my daughter was in Miami for a couple of months at the end last year. And she's like, this is a Spanish town. Because you don't see that in LA. Because in LA, yes, there's a lot of people whose first language is Spanish, but to be honest, they're not mixing. It's it's it's it's more the workers. Whereas in Miami, the Spanish speakers are middle class, whatever word is used for that in America. You know, they're they're the same as us. You meet them everywhere. So it really is a Spanish town where my daughter was like she went to some places where they didn't speak English.
SPEAKER_01I know. All of the time. I stop at gas stations, like before we had Google Maps, and I would ask for directions and I would have to ask in Spanish, and hopefully I would be able to understand what they had to say. But that is that's always been this way, I think, in Miami. I am a native from Miami. I was born in North Miami Beach. My husband was born in Miami. In fact, my kids are third generation. My father-in-law was born in Miami. And his father was in World War I and the family was from Chicago. And when he came back from the war, he did not want to go back to Chicago. He wanted to go down to Miami. And so my family's been here for well over a hundred years. So it wasn't always like that. But when we moved from Chicago down to Miami, and I was working in the advertising world, I wanted to work for the Miami Herald. And I could not get a job because I was not bilingual. So you can't even, as a native or somebody who speaks English really well, get a job in Miami if you're not bilingual.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough. Um, health. Talk to us about like what health means to you. And health, I always like to think of, you know, it could be nutrition, could be fitness, can be sleep, mental health, or sort of how does health look for you?
SPEAKER_01Well, I did yoga yesterday. I actually ran a whole yoga session for my 23-year-old and for my husband. I'm always focused on my health, and it's been a journey for me my entire life. I was always a little chunky, or I would go up and down in weight when I was a child. I was active, I played varsity tennis, I was a skier, but I was always, I'd say probably 30 pounds over my ideal body weight. And when I had my first child at 25, Ethan, I did not want to be a fat mom. I was like, I don't want people to look at me and say, yeah, you look like that because you're a mom. I wanted to feel good. I had the worst back pain I ever had in my life when I was pregnant, and I never wanted to feel that way again. So I lost 74 pounds. I gained 38 pregnant, and I lost 74. I actually started working for Weight Watchers because that's how I lost it. And I wanted it to be this all consuming part. Of my life on how to eat healthy, how to exercise. In fact, when I had my second son, I exercised until I was seven and a half months pregnant. Totally different experience pregnant-wise. And I always, even though I got pregnant two other times after I had lost my weight, I lost it again. So it's very important for me to be healthy. I follow the 80-20 rule. My mom was a vegetarian growing up my entire life. And I don't eat a ton of meat, but my dad is such a carnivore. And my brother was so deprived that I think he would like cut me off a cow and eat it raw and call it a steak. So I think there's a happy medium. I'm probably the happy medium, but I I follow the ED20 rule. Yeah, I like to partake in some things that aren't necessarily healthy, with I do enjoy wine, I do enjoy desserts, I do enjoy some of these carbohydrates or snacks, but I limit them and I really function on the 80% of what I need to do to be healthy. And then my whole goal though, right now, I think, because I exercise all of the time. I do weights, I'll do cardio, the yoga. I started incorporating yoga again about six months ago. Uh, and I feel better. It helps me mentally. I think of it more as not a power yoga session. That's not what I do, but more of a whole mindfulness approach. I started, I meditate. I don't meditate as often as I should, but I learned how to meditate about 10 years ago and I try to incorporate that as well. I I need to provide a little bit more grace in my life to myself. So I feel like taking time aside to do yoga or to meditate is something I do for me.
SPEAKER_00I think that's important. It's doing something for you. And I think I should probably be doing yoga. It's the one thing I don't do. I run four times a week, I wait list three times a week, but yoga would be good for me.
SPEAKER_01Good for stretching, right? You're probably tight like most men. Good for stretching.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I'm sitting down thinking my back would like me to go have a walk, but you know. Um and uh talk a little bit about uh what you like to do for fun.
SPEAKER_01So I went to my last exam, my last uh internal medicine exam, and my doctor said, Meredith, you need a hobby. And I said, I have a hobby. And he said, What's your hobby? And by the way, he's known me forever. He was my husband's chief resident at the University of Miami. So I have known this man since I was 23 years old. And I said, I have a hobby. I'm a podcaster. Working healthcare is my hobby. He said, That is not a hobby. I said, Well, what's a hobby? And he said, Listen, I play guitar. I play guitar like 15 minutes a day. I just pick it up and I play a little bit and I enjoy it. It's meditative for me. I said, I am not going to play the guitar. He said, Meredith, people who have hobbies live longer. So I was very much trying to focus on what do I do for fun? How do I need to have a hobby? But I truly believe there's a time and a place for everything. And right now, my hobby is visiting my children. My hobby is taking a break and spending time with them because they live in three different areas around the country. And I I need to spend time with my in-laws. They're getting older now. I love spending, I love my mother-in-law. I'm very, very, very, very, very close to her. My father-in-law is getting older. I have a lot of family down here. So I guess if my hobby can be visiting family or giving my kids a call or spending time with them, I'm flying to New York this weekend to hang out with Ethan and Samantha. And I'm planning a wedding. So I think that's my hobby.
SPEAKER_00That's fair enough. Perfectly good hobby.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So that's what that's what I do in my free time. I don't have a lot of it, which is why next year I'm not teaching at Florida Atlantic University. I've taken on a lot of different responsibilities over the last several years, and I've enjoyed it. It will be my eighth year, but it's now virtual. It used to be in person, and I just don't enjoy it as much. So I'm trying to focus on me. I'm 51 years old. I'm in the back half of my life, which is really sad when you say it that way. But I feel like I'm so much stronger mentally, physically. I feel good. Like I want to do what's good for me.
SPEAKER_00I'm I mean, I'm not in the back half of my life. I'm just beginning my next chapter.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's what I need to say then. My next chapter. My kids are like, you know, you're middle-aged, mom. I'm like, why do you say that?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. Like my my my friend said the other day, you are living your best life. I'm like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I won't be in the back half. And I don't even play golf, so I don't even know why I'm using that as an analogy. But I am in the next chapter. I don't know. That's so cliche. But I'm enjoying where I am now. My confidence level, my just feeling good, my ability to say no and yes when I want to is definitely more directed than it was when I was younger.
SPEAKER_00Perfect. What would you say has been a pivotal moment of your life? Now you've probably already said that from some of the things you've said.
SPEAKER_01I really did come to you. The biggest pivotal moment, specifically as a founder of the Hearst Center, was when I left the practice. I left running day-to-day operations. I left actually to finish grad school. I went back and got my MBA. I did an executive MBA program, and I didn't graduate until I was 42 years old. So it was a time, but I knew, and this was my third attempt at it, by the way. I knew I had to figure out a way to set my practice up in a way that it needed to be set up. I still had three children at home, and I knew I needed to get additional education for me. I just did. And so I thought I set up the practice the way that it needed to be set up, but it wasn't. And I knew I had to go back in and save it. So I always say when I teach an entrepreneurial class is you definitely have to have the right people in place, but you can't leave your company. We are 100% owners of the practice. Who is going to watch it the way we will? I now am at the point where I want people investing into the company so they have skin in the game. But if it's solely me, who else cares as much as I do? So I think that was probably the most pivotal time, at least in my career, and as an entrepreneur and as a founder and somebody who knew that you you can't abandon your company.
SPEAKER_00Very true. Your baby. What would you say is one piece of advice you would give from a sparring entrepreneur?
SPEAKER_01Believe in yourself. Just do it. I'll follow what Nike said, since you know I am an advertising major for trade or from trade. I don't think people have enough confidence in themselves. I always feel like I can do anything. It just depends on how much I want it. And it it's a combination of aptitude and attitude. Most of us have the aptitude, but do we have the attitude? Are we really going to work as hard as you need to work to get what you want to get? So it's all about prioritizing and figuring out and having belief in yourself. No excuses, just having belief in yourself that you can do it. Perfect.
SPEAKER_00How can people find you?
SPEAKER_01Everywhere. Google now says, Google now says that I am a public figure. So Meredith Hirsch, you got my name right at the beginning. It's H-I-R-S-H, and I have a website, meredithhirsch.com. I am also very active on LinkedIn. I am on Instagram. I am on Facebook. I am on YouTube under Working Healthcare. And I love to speak to other founders, business-oriented people. That's why, Leo, when your team reached out to me, I was thrilled. I love your podcast. I love what you're doing. I love everything all about this. So thank you for bringing me on.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you for joining us. And thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to subscribe to the channel, tell your friends, and please leave a review.