Ep 67: Aging Strong: What Master’s Athletes Get Right About Health with Dustin Jones, DPT

What can we learn from people who stay active, competitive, and engaged as they age?

In this episode, Dustin Jones, DPT, joins us to share powerful lessons from master’s athletes—individuals who don’t just exercise, but stay in the game for life. We talk about how social connection, self-efficacy, and a willingness to adapt—not quit—keep them moving through injuries, life changes, and aging.

We also explore why combining different types of movement—from endurance training to sports that challenge balance and agility—can support long-term health and independence.

Whether you’re in a busy season of life or feel like it’s too late to start, this episode is a powerful reminder that movement isn’t just about exercise—it’s about staying connected, capable, and engaged in the life you want to live. 

If you’ve been on the sidelines, consider this your invitation to get back in the game!

Find Dustin Jones, DPT at Hyphen

Links to stay in the game:

National Senior Games

Kentucky Senior Games

Link to SAFE : Sustained Athlete Fitness Exam

thestartinggatepodcast.com

Email us with questions and topics you want us to cover at
contact@thestartinggatepodcast.com

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The content in this podcast is for general reference and educational purposes only.  It is not meant to be complete or exhaustive, or to be applicable to any
specific individual’s medical condition.   No information provided in this podcast constitutes medical advice and is not an attempt to practice medicine or to provide specific medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.  This podcast does not create a physician- patient relationship and is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.  Please do not rely on this podcast for emergency medical treatment.  Remember that everyone is different so make sure you consult your own healthcare professional before seeking any new treatment and before you alter, suspend, or initiate a new change in your routine.

Transcript

Ep 67: Aging Strong: What Master’s Athletes Get Right About Health with Dustin Jones, DPT

[00:00:00] Before we start today's episode, I would like to quickly read you our podcast disclaimer. The content in this podcast is for general reference and educational purposes only. It is not meant to be complete or exhaustive or to be applicable to any specific individual's medical condition. No information provided in this podcast constitutes medical advice and is not an attempt to practice medicine or to provide specific medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

This podcast does not create a physician patient relationship, and it's not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please do not rely on this podcast for emergency medical treatment. Remember that everyone is different, so make sure you consult your own healthcare professional before seeking any new treatment, and before you alter, suspend, or initiate a new change in your routine.

Welcome to the starting day. We're your host, Dr. Kitty Dotson and Dr. Sarah Schuetz. Two internal medicine doctors who spent years practicing traditional primary care. Over time, we realized something was missing from modern healthcare, a [00:01:00] real understanding of how everyday lifestyle choices impact overall health.

We'll help you cut through the noise of the countless health influencers and their conflicting opinions because no matter who you follow, the basics of lifestyle medicine are at the heart of it all.

Welcome back to the starting gate. We're your host, Dr. Kitty Dotson 

and Dr. Sarah Schuetz. 

So today we're gonna talk about aging, but not in the way it's usually framed. So instead of focusing on. Decline or limitations or what we can't do anymore. We're really asking what can aging look like when it's done well?

our guest today is Dustin Jones, a Doctor of Physical therapy who you may have listened to with us before. He's a return guest for us. So thanks so much for coming, Dustin. 

Pumped. Thank you. 

But he works primarily with adults over 50 and trains also people that may be called master athletes. And these are people who continue to stay active and strong and engaged well into the later [00:02:00] decades of life.

And what's fascinating is how much these people can teach us about aging and what's possible and really. How important it is to lay the foundations in your younger years for the life you wanna have later. 

So in this episode, we not only wanna talk about understanding our body and how movement's gonna change, but we wanna talk about mindset.

And I know this is something I've seen in many of my aging patients and it can make such a huge difference. And I know he has a lot of perspective and opinions on that. So we'll be sure to dive into that. But we really hope this gives you a feeling of hope as you age more than anything, and that you can actually make a difference in your trajectory as you age.

So let's get ready to dive in. 

Yeah. 

Alright, 

Dustin, tell us a little bit about yourself in case someone missed your previous episode with us. 

Yeah, so I'm a physical therapist and I mainly work with older adults. That's a very arbitrary term, but most of the folks I work with are over [00:03:00] 60, 65. I started off as a PT that really wanted to focus on like sports and athletics and high school collegiate athletes.

And then I started to work with older adults and applied some of those concepts that I would use with younger individuals. And these people responded really well and they often surprised me in terms of what they were able to do, and that really motivated me to specialize in what you would call geriatrics or, working with older adults people that I hope to become someday.

And over the course of the past 10, 12 years just learned a ton. Started to teach other physical therapists and fitness professionals about what we can do, what we want to avoid, and just how to help people be as independent as possible. And I've learned a ton from these folks and they've.

Influenced my training, how I perceive aging. And I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of understanding like what's possible as we approach those later decades. 

[00:04:00] So when we were talking about doing this episode, Sarah said something to me and we were getting ready to go somewhere else.

So you quickly said something like, oh, I was thinking how can we learn from master athletes and , use their mindset and training to help us be better later? And. I later had to Google what is a master? Yeah. I was like, oh, she's really thinking about these really strong competitors.

I did not really know that term. 

Ah, what'd 

you find? So I found out that a master athlete is someone who continues to do sports or races or some sort of competitive type. It doesn't have to be hardcore competitive. It could be like continuing to do five Ks or things like that throughout their life.

Yes. And a master's athlete does not necessarily mean that they're in their fifties, sixties, or seventies. So it varies based on sport as well. So like a master's athlete in gymnastics for example, is [00:05:00] someone maybe in their late twenties, early thirties. And so it's very sport specific, but , this group of people, and I don't think we've really grasped this yet, at no point in the history of humanity.

Have we had humans be able to specifically train for as long as possible as some of these people have been. I'm sure they were very healthy fit individuals, generations ago, but they didn't live as long. Because they had a communicable disease or, poor sanitary practice or whatever, right?

Like our lifespan has increased and we're just now getting to the point where specific training and exercise that we know is good for us. That there's people that have been doing that for decades like that's new. And so we're seeing that this group that continues to compete what we perceive to be our potential, every competition, every national senior games, what we think to be the fastest or the best that we can be as humans just continues to [00:06:00] get.

Absolutely obliterated and changed. When you look at, any race, especially like marathon, the world records are fastest times based on age groups. They're getting broken exponentially more in that older adult demographic because there just hasn't been that many people participate or be able to train for that event over a long period of time.

And this group is being studied and really highlighting what training can do for you. And so there's a lot of unknowns, but it's very exciting, especially for me. Like I'm about to turn 40, right? And I've got this runway that man, if I live like these people, I may be able to do some pretty cool things at a later age and maintain my independence longer, whatever that goal is.

So yeah very unique. Group of people. I view them as unicorns right now. 

So what do you think has changed that has given people the ability to do this? Is it just the mindset that it's possible? Or is it that we just have better tools and resources for these people? 

 I think it's a lot of things like culturally, right?

If you [00:07:00] think back to, the folks are in their seventies and eighties now, what was exercise? What was the culture of fitness back then? 

Daily life. Yeah, daily life. Yeah. 

It was daily life. Like sports participation wasn't much, but it was starting, And so this group, I think they've had a lot of opportunities.

More opportunities than what, even 10 years before them. And so there have been cultural norms, systems to participate in different physical activity. Discussions around, the importance of exercise we haven't nailed it obviously, but they were starting to learn, oh, I need to move, I need to exercise.

And , there are a small group of individuals that implemented that and they're continuing to implement that over decades. And those people are shattering a lot of norms. , Especially like around females as well.

 So many, the folks I work with, the women I mean they share with me what it was like to be a female growing up and all the limitations to [00:08:00] participate in sport. Which there are still limitations, but even so back then, like I've had so many people that , loved to play basketball and they only had half court basketball when they were growing up, but the boys had full court, right?

Just like that stigma to where women weren't participating as much. We're just now on the brink of folks that when those changes were happening, they were in their like twenties, thirties, there's a small group that hopped in. They stayed consistent and now they're in their, sixties, seventies, eighties.

And they're oblating records, rewriting the norms, which makes me excited. For someone that grew up in sports, it was normal for me to exercise. culturally, it is normal, not, more people need to do it, but I've got such a long runway to train that what I hope to be able to do at that later age excites me. 

Lots of people played sports when they're young. Are you picking up on anything that seems to drive these people to keep doing it? Most people stop at some point in their life. 

[00:09:00] Yeah, so I've had the opportunity to spend a good bit of time in the master's athlete or senior athlete space at the state level, here in Kentucky and then at the national level.

So the national senior games will rotate around, every couple years. And it brings in, tens of thousands of athletes and family members. And it's quite the event and motivations are very different, right? There's some folks that are very competitive and they want to win.

We have folks that are really competitive with themselves and just want to put in the effort and do as best as they can. But honestly, what the most consistent theme I saw was the social aspect. When a group of people, this demographic. Has somewhat limited opportunities to connect with people in a meaningful manner.

I think the pandemic really challenged everybody, but definitely that group that, that social connection is really enticing. That they don't have a lot of opportunities to gather with a lot of people in their peer group. And this is one avenue. And like even at this, the [00:10:00] national senior games level, which you hear that and you think, oh, these people are super hardcore and that's all they do is train.

And that's not the case. There's so many very casual recreational athletes there that were there just to hang out and have fun. So it's a very different, like stigma than what you would associate with the national senior. Yeah. Lets say. Yeah. Short answer. So the social connection I think is a huge driver for these folks.

Another thing that I feel like. I experienced a lot in primary care, or just even today in my practice, is many people could have been athletes when they were younger, but they had injuries, like they were in different types of sports, had a knee injury here, shoulder injury there,

and because of those injuries just gave up. So what is it about those people that I guarantee that you don't make it till 80 and never had an injury, in sports. So what is the common theme that you see from some of these athletes that kept them going even though that they [00:11:00] had injuries along the way?

a big theme is their mindset. So a lot of these folks have pretty high, what we call self-efficacy. They are very confident in their ability to put forth effort. And achieve a certain goal. And so they will view the injury not as this huge obstacle, but just like a bump in the road.

Okay, I've got some pain here. I can work around it, I can do the rehab, I can do the work to continue to participate. With that being said, there are a lot of folks that they have that self-efficacy. They are they do a lot of work. They do the pt, they do the rehab, and they continue to participate that they also will transition.

So if there is an activity or an event that is a pretty high demand to where they can't participate in that anymore. There's a lot of folks that will switch sports or do a different type of event within track and field, for [00:12:00] example. And so they, they're very open-handed about that.

Tennis players that may say, Hey, I, I can't travel that much, distance on a court. I may try pickleball, for example. I don't wanna offend any pickleball athletes on with that. I love pickleball. So yeah, I'd say they're very they put the work in and they're very confident that they're gonna put the work in and get results.

And they're also open-handed about the sport that they do. It's more about connecting with folks and doing something active. And I've seen a lot of folks switch sports or change the distance or whatever it may be, with what they did when they were younger. 

Is there something specific about the competition?

Is there any difference in someone that's continuing to do competitive sports versus someone that just joins a recreational league or group that goes and does stuff? 

Yeah, good question. From the evidence, I don't know. I don't think that's been studied really well, just 'cause , the sample size is so small from competitive and [00:13:00] then like recreational in terms of participation.

what I've seen the fruit of competition though, and I think if anyone's played a sport like you felt, this the stakes are higher accountability's, higher pressure's a little higher, and effort usually goes up, consistency goes up, results may go up as well in terms of the benefits of that. Both are great, but I think when you bump up the stakes a little bit in competition it changes things for sure.

But I don't wanna discourage recreational participation in anything. I know not everyone wants to compete, but one of the fruits of competing is you're probably going to try a little harder than if you were just doing it recreationally. And when you look at the physical mental benefits, , they're pretty profound when you try real hard at something.

Yeah. I know that with running, like when they're training for a race versus just running casually, it's totally different. 

And even doing something solo versus with a group, we see that too. At [00:14:00] our gym when there's a group class, people will do things at a harder level, higher level, more consistently than if they were to do it by themselves, in their home.

So I think there's an element of that as well. 

I could definitely see it. I know at that age, if I looked across and I was like, oh my gosh, they're 10 years older than me, I can do 

this. Yeah. It happens 

all the time. And you're just like, okay. And then you push yourself harder. Because you're just like, I'm not gonna fail at this.

Yeah. 

 What physical qualities, like thinking about strength or mobility or endurance, do you think really matters for maintaining physical activity as you age? 

Great question. So I think this will be a good time to bring up some really interesting research around this group of people. there's a woman, Becca Jordre.

So she is a physical therapist and she's been going to the national senior games for the past 14, 16 years. And she developed a screen called the Safe Senior Athlete Fitness Exam. And all the [00:15:00] national Senior Games athletes will go through. This safe. So it's a screen where you're doing like grip strength and blood pressure readings and gait speed and how well you get out of a chair and all kinds of different outcome measures that we like to use and you all as well as physicians to see how someone's doing.

So she's collected tens of thousands of data points on these different outcome measures and she's published a lot of really interesting research articles that breaks down what sport may actually be more advantageous to aging and what's important as we age, right? In terms of independence.

And so what she is showing by and large is if you are participating in a sport, you are going to likely be very healthy compared to folks that are not. Regardless of the sport. So it is helpful to be active and participate. So compared to your peers that are not regularly participating in an [00:16:00] activity like that you're probably gonna have better outcomes, more independence, longer independence as well.

But there are big differences amongst the sports, which I love. I think this is so interesting. So one of the most popular sports are endurance events at the national senior games. So think 5K think, there's different cycling like road riding rides and distances for every like running event.

There's also walking as well, swimming too. So a lot of longer swim events. So anything like real long endurance based event, those people are obviously gonna have very healthy heart lungs. Their cardiovascular health is amazing, their balance. Is terrible. That's 

fascinating. 

Better than the norm.

Yeah, but it's not great. They're not necessarily strong and they don't have a lot of ability to produce power or force quickly compared to some other [00:17:00] athletes. I'm about to mention. They're still better off than folks that are not participating. So I want that to be like the clear thing, if you're doing something that's amazing.

But I think it's helpful, challenging the notion of the value of endurance based training, especially with this demographic. , The education that they heard was a lot about jogging and endurance based activities, and they are not getting, they did not get the same message about strength and power and sprints and jumping like younger groups are.

And there's implications for that. And so the endurance space that's what they're seeing. And then the sports that require. Jumping or quick movements and having to react. Like pickleball is one of them. Basketball is another one. Volleyball the sprints, like the short distances with track and field, 50 meter, a hundred meter, for example.

Those folks don't have as great of cardiovascular health as the endurance runners, but they're. Right behind them, but they are strong and they're able to use their strength [00:18:00] quickly and they have good balance as well. And they are seemingly better all around from the performance standpoint and the metrics that we really look at for people to be as independent as long as possible.

So for me it's influenced my training. 'cause I'm an endurance junkie. Like I love ultra runs. I'm gonna do the Red Bud Road ride here with Thad Salmon here in about a month. I love endurance-based stuff. But for me, that data shows, all right, I need to get as strong as possible. I need to use that strength quickly and do different power activities.

I need to do some things where I'm using my agility and shifting weight, like pickleball is great. that's really influenced a lot of my training. So that research is fascinating in showing yeah, what we may want to train to really, achieve the results we want, later. In our life.

Yeah, that's what we had a cardiologist on here recently. And was talking about racket sports specifically are so are being found to be like the longevity sports in general. Like tennis and that. So it all, we're [00:19:00] getting a lot of different data points for that. 

Yeah. Yeah.

and I tend to think of the endurance sports are your stress release. Like that becomes a part of your life because it serves you like from a mental health standpoint too. 

Yeah. 

I don't know because I have not been a sports player.

I don't know if playing basketball or volleyball or something like that gives you that same release and stress reduction and things that some of the endurance sports tend to do. 

I think it's very subjective for me. It does not, there's nothing I've found that can create some of the mental clarity and.

I don't even know how to explain it as like an ultra marathon, it's addicting and I love it. And it's great. Like I don't want people to question their cycling or running habit, but I think people should not expect that to check all the boxes for what they want to be as they age.

That if I am an avid cyclist, you better be strength training. Hammering hills is not necessarily going to 

Yeah. 

To [00:20:00] do it, but you also need to use that strength while you're on your feet and reacting to things and working on your balance or swimming as well. I think we will need to supplement that training if you find a lot of joy in swimming, running, cycling.

Yeah. We've seen that a lot with osteoporosis research. Mm-hmm. that's not enough. Yeah. For especially our bone health as we age. 

A hundred percent.

 What would you tell someone , that likes to walk or run regularly, that has never done a lot of strength training in the past? Is there just a recommendation of where to start? 

, I would go about that conversation first to say keep doing what you're doing.

'cause that's really good that they're walking and they have a habit, which is the hardest thing. Yeah. To get people moving. From the strength standpoint. If they do have someone that is close that they could work with, I think that is helpful. But honestly, I would. Be very intentional to let people know that it is safe and okay for you to lift heavy things and to not [00:21:00] overcomplicate it.

There's a lot of fear around strength training and barbells, and kettlebells and all that type of stuff. These are very approachable movements that these folks are already doing every day. The only thing that we are advocating for is that they do those movements, but with a lot of weight. And that's safe and that's okay.

And so just some of those heavy hitter movements of using some heavy load, if you have that, if you have the fitness equipment, great. If you don't, what about a laundry basket? And throw some household items in there to make it relatively healthy. Picking it up from the ground, or we'd call that a deadlift, which I don't love that name, but the life lift maybe better.

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Deadlifts are great. Squats. Lunges are awesome. Pushups are great. Just getting some upper body, lower body, there's all kinds of methodologies and thoughts and it's very over complicated. But I would say start doing a handful of those movements to where it feels heavy.

It feels heavy, and [00:22:00] we could go into set and rep ranges and all that type of stuff. But I definitely don't wanna overcomplicate that with individuals. And if they do have hesitation, reach out to professional. I don't want them to start there, per se. Because I think we do enough of, increasing fear of movement and making people very dependent on our advice when the reality is like, it's a very safe thing to do that they don't need they always don't need a professional opinion to pick up a weight. 

I know there are many people that are hearing this and they're like, I missed my boat. I miss my window. You're talking about these people that have stayed athletes for their entire life.

What do you say to these 50, 60-year-old people as you meet them and they're just like I feel like I can't do this. 

Yeah. So the, at the national senior games, you'll see folks that have been training for decades, they've never stopped, and they're breaking records. You probably see more folks that have picked up a sport in their sixties, seventies, and AIDS that are starting to participate.

So it's cliche, but it is not too late. [00:23:00] I would tell that person that if you have not been doing these things like training regularly or participating in a sport, you are going to see more change and more progress than any other person. And that's what got me addicted to working with this demographic that if they haven't been strength training, haven't been doing a lot of things, or participating in a sport, this is their baseline.

And then they start to do these things, their body adapts and responds very quickly and pretty profoundly. I always think about early on in my career, I would work with a lot of runners and you would work so hard and they would train so hard to maybe get one to 2% better for their mile time or marathon time or whatever.

And then I started working with, Betty who was sick in the hospital that came home from the hospital and. With some of these outcome measures I mentioned before, we would see 50, 60% improvement in those within a matter of weeks. And so [00:24:00] if anyone is going to pick something up or train, it's the person that has not been doing it.

'cause you're gonna get the most benefit, relative benefit than any other person. And it's been amazing to see. the most impactful I've seen was I had someone at a part of our gym, Carolyn, Carolyn has osteoporosis. At the time she was 87 years old, just lost her husband was struggling to stay independent in her home.

She started working with us and she wanted to improve her strength and do something about her osteoporosis. And she started training and within, about a year I was. Telling Carolyn you used to run and you said you had a lot of joy from that. Do you wanna start running again? And she looked at me like, are you crazy?

Like I'm, 88, 89, you want me to start running? And I'm like, if you want to, you can. And I was familiar with a lot of the times at the national senior games and age groups, I was like, Carolyn, if you start running and if you can walk and run a [00:25:00] 5K, 3.1 miles, I think you could be the fastest person in your age group at the national senior games.

And she thought I was absolutely crazy. And so we started training. She had about five or six months to prepare for this and she goes to Pittsburgh and gets third place in the 5K at the national senior games. And she literally started running. Maybe 12 months before that. And if anyone, if you were to size anyone up and think they shouldn't be doing this stuff, it's Carolyn.

And she would say this herself. And so I always think about her because I have so many folks that are that healthier, better in shape. They've got a lot more years left than Carolyn. That when they see Carolyn, you're gonna say, oh, she can do it. I can do it. And not say third place is the goal, right?

But you are a very adaptable human and if you expose yourself to this type of stuff, you're gonna see some pretty amazing results. 

I feel like a lot of people probably wouldn't even [00:26:00] know where to start to get involved in. A sport. 

Once they're in their fifties, sixties, seventies where do you even go?

Yeah. So every state is going to have an organization that will be a feeder into the national senior games. They will either be the state senior games, so the Kentucky Senior Games, or it'll be called the Senior Olympics. And I think those are really great organizations to get in touch with because they know of all the groups across the state that are, working out together, that are participating, competing, and all the different sports.

And so if there's not a clear, club or group in your area, the state game website, those people are who you'd want to connect with. 'cause you could say, Hey, I live in Lexington. I used to run a ton and I'd really like to get more involved in that. And I'd love to. Maybe, walk or run the mile or the 5K at [00:27:00] the Kentucky Senior Games who could help me.

They're instantly gonna know, oh, you need to reach out to Frank. He has a run club, walk, run club. He could help you out. Just they're very well connected. So I would say the state senior games is a good place to start 

something. I feel really guilty. I've never known about me neither. 

Yeah, me neither.

It's a super fun event. 

Yeah, no, that super fun that it, I love this. So what are some of the things that we can also learn from these individuals helping them stay healthy? 'cause I would say in my mind, many times people think if I just, if I keep doing these hard things on my body, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna make my arthritis worse, or I'm going to, if I have back pain, like I ca I just gotta give up lifting heavy.

'cause I've had two back surgeries or you name it, right? Things add up over your lifetime. What is it we can do to help people work through that?

honestly, I think a lot of that stems from the continued [00:28:00] decline, if you will, or avoidance of all my back hurts, I'm, not going to do this, or I'm gonna stop doing this, or I'm gonna lower my participation in this activity.

Let's say if I am very strong, very fit, my tissues are strong, my bones are strong, when I go to do different activities or exercise, the relative demand of that is going to be minimal. Like I'm gonna be able to handle it 'cause I've got a lot of margin, if you will, or reserve. It's not gonna be as big of a deal.

If I'm not as strong. My tissues are a little weaker, my bones are weaker. I've not been doing these things regularly and I go to play the game or do whatever activity. It may be more of a relative demand, meaning it's gonna be tougher on me. And so the key is that when you have the ache or pain is that you don't view that as a reason to stop.

But a reason to make yourself more resilient. [00:29:00] And you want to do that by training around that issue. So most people are gonna say, oh, I'm done. I need a rest day. It's you don't need a rest day per se. Maybe we continue to be active and do another workout the next day, but give that area a break if it's back pain or knee pain or whatever.

So it's a lot of adapting and working around issues or limitations. And that's my job. That is all I do with folks is we're building their resilience, we're getting them stronger. They may have a flare up, which is gonna happen, it's completely normal for all of us, but that's not a reason to completely stop something.

It's okay, if my knee is hurting, maybe I don't do that particular squat variation tomorrow, I'm gonna sub that out for something that's not going to flare my knee up as much so I can continue. To work out and continue to train. So that those individuals that didn't stop but worked around those limitations are the ones that continue to build up their ability [00:30:00] and the sport or whatever becomes less and less of a demand, which obviously is complicated in case by case.

But I think that's where a helpful professional can help guide you and give you options to where you don't have to stop. You can continue making progress, but you just adapt and work around some type of limitation or flare up 

that you Yeah. And I love what you mentioned. You see so many times these athletes, they may have just switched sports in general.

Exactly. But it, they found a way to stay active through whatever limitations they may have, be, have been given. 

that's where like when, if I'm a consumer, if I'm a patient or someone listening to this and I'm wanting to join a gym, for example, if the gym cannot accommodate and work with you on the fly and be able to provide options, if it's a personal training session or a class, that is not going to be a great situation for you.

You need to be a, have a very adaptable program that is able to adjust based on how you're feeling that day or that week, for [00:31:00] example. So that, that's a huge variable that I find with a lot of folks in terms of them, being successful in a fitness routine. 

I think this is interesting 'cause for me, I like to exercise just for exercise, but there are a lot of people, I feel like, especially men that don't like to exercise, but they may like a sport or they like to sport for many years of their life and then they stopped playing and they don't like to exercise, but they'll say I still like to be active in something that's doing something.

So they may like to be active around the yard on the weekends or something like that, but they don't like to go to the gym and exercise. Yeah. What do you say to that person? 

That's, I don't have a great answer. So our at hyphen we are, the majority of our members are females and as long as I've been working with this demographic.

It has been very difficult to get males to regularly partake in a gym. And [00:32:00] if they do, it's usually with their partner, their spouse. So I don't have 

That's interesting. Don't you think? Yeah, I do. I find it very interesting. 

Yeah, so I don't have a great answer or a solution. The guys that, that I've worked with that are regularly participating, from what I've gathered, there's a motivating variable, of it's either they want to be able to play the game or do the activity, and they have seen the clear correlation that, oh, if I, if my deadlift gets stronger and if I can squat more weight, therefore I will be able to do whatever that meaningful activity is.

So there's that small group of people. Then the majority of the guys that have joined our gym, it's also been around maintaining their independence. They don't want to ask for help. They don't want to need help. They don't want to be a burden. To their kids or their community. And so they are being proactive about that and it's usually triggered by some type of event in their life, like a [00:33:00] parent or a family member where they've seen what happens if you don't build up your strength and endurance.

But I don't have a great answer. That's just an observation from the folks I've worked with. 

Many males really prefer sports. 

Yeah. 

So 

that, 

That just has me thinking. 'cause I guess I just tend to think about exercise 'cause it is something that I enjoy. So then when people don't enjoy it, I'm like, gosh, I don't know.

But I guess I didn't realize there were so many sports available for people to do when they get older. 

 there's dozens that are in that kind of senior games track and you do see a lot of male participation there. But they are, they represent such a. Small percentage of the population, males in the population.

But there, there's opportunities to participate for sure. But I think it's gonna change a lot, just as this current group ages out and we, move up in that category, like exercising amongst males is much more of the [00:34:00] norm comparatively than that demographic. So I think that's gonna change.

Many of, much of that demographic still had physical jobs. Exactly. They didn't even, they didn't have to think about exercise 'cause they did physical labor until they retired and then retirement really was a hard time because they'd never learned how to exercise or stay involved in that because it was part of their work.

And yeah I do think our generation's much better just because. They've had to figure that out. Yeah. 

Yeah. And I don't want, yeah. And I don't want that to come across as as we are better than them. I think I would be, if I was like my dad's age, I probably wouldn't be in a gym to be honest.

Oh, 

absolutely. If I didn't have to I, it's really hard to change once you've reached a certain age to go do something new. 

Yes. 

Yeah. 

And for him, like there wasn't a lot of resources, education gyms available, or professionals that knew how to navigate a lot of those complications. That I think we, I'm saying this from the perspective of a [00:35:00] 39-year-old, like I'm benefiting tremendously from.

What a lot of, people ahead of us have gone through and learned the hard way or experienced difficulty and now we have solutions to a lot of their suffering, which makes me sad, but also motivates me to Yeah. Continue to grow that for people. 

So what would you say to a listener that's maybe around 40, has kids, has a job and not a lot of extra free time, and we're sitting here saying you need to be doing sports, being active.

What would you say to them as far as why it's important to make some time for this and how to make some time for this? 

Yeah, I want y'all's take on this too, because this is your, yeah. This is your jam. , I've noticed, especially with a lot of my peers. or my generation that we value are a lot of things at a very high level, like our career, for example.

We put a high price on our career and we'll often put that [00:36:00] above our health and some of those habits and just that whole concept of big rocks. Fill your day with those big rocks, the things that are meaningful and impactful for you, and then go from there. And I think we, I don't think we value exercise to the extent that it actually serves us.

 For me, it has elevated so much as I learn more about these masters athletes and what they're able to accomplish and to see, oh my gosh, if I continue this, I'm gonna be able to get these results. But it is a big rock. It is like brushing your teeth and it needs to have that type of priority.

And so I definitely try and sell that. It's not this like vanity seeking thing or whatever, like it's, we're talking about your independence and your livelihood that you're investing in right now. So I try to elevate the level of it, but then I also simultaneously try and lower the barrier that I feel, and I feel this, I don't know about y'all, but so many people feel like they have [00:37:00] to work out every single day for 60 minutes for it to be worth anything.

And so for someone that's not used to this, just that concept of movement, snacks. Of getting in intentional movement, maybe at a higher intensity. And building that habit. If someone has a minute, do a minute of burpees, like some activity. But if you do a minute of burpees yeah oh my gosh and it's 60 seconds, right?

And just I don't think we need to overcomplicate it, but make it very approachable. And so that concept of movement snacks, so something like really bang for your buck movement. I love burpees. I think it's really practical. And just do it for a short period of time. Get a daily rhythm , put a high price on that, be consistent with it, and then grow it from there.

I hate to see people put out this standard you need to be working out 60 minutes a day for five days a week and trying to pitch that to someone bs Yeah. That's never exercised in their life. Yeah. What a huge jump for that personally. Let's be real here.

Yeah, those are the two things for me. 

Yeah I think a [00:38:00] couple things. I like to separate the relationship of exercise with weight loss or exercise with how we look. Because a lot of times, it takes a long time to see those benefits versus the other amazing things that exercise can do in our life because it helps people stick with it.

So that, that is one that I really value a lot. Like the, how it helps with our mental health, our concentration, our ability to perform our metabolic health, like all these different things just because that's, so many people just have it connected to only those two things. And, that's really hard to have continued motivation for on a regular basis.

And then I love the idea of smaller amount of exercise. That is something. That I had to have a period of time of transition. Going from my college life and grad school life where I had more time to exercise and I exercised longer, 60 [00:39:00] minutes, whatever, ran longer distances at that point.

Went through medical school and residency and then I didn't do anything. 'cause I didn't, I was like, I didn't have an hour here or there or whatever. And I look back and how I got back into it was, learning to accept 15, 20 minutes is acceptable and it's still amazing. And that is what helped me build consistency.

So some of the things that you've mentioned is what I personally had to do in order to bring it back into my life and make it a routine habit. And then another thing that I always like to provide to patients. Actually, snacks can happen whenever, but taking time and actually putting exercise as an appointment with yourself on your calendar, because when you have a busy career and family, et cetera, somebody's gonna take your time.

Somebody's gonna take that calendar space, I guarantee it. So you might as well book it on your calendar and you will have a way higher chance of actually con completing it [00:40:00] versus I'm gonna see if it happens today. 

Man, that's so true. Yeah. 

So exercise should be an appointment with yourself.

And and then if it doesn't work, that's a lot of times when you can use these snacks and be like, okay, those 20 minutes traffic was too long. I don't have those 20 minutes, but I'm gonna do, some pushups or I'm gonna do a wall sit and some burpees and I'm gonna call it a day and I'll go on to the next day.

that's some of the, my little tidbits. What about you Kitty? 

Yeah, I, 

You have your own. 

I love little snacks of exercise. That was what got me back into being active again. Because I really couldn't see myself committing that much time to it. And then I started noticing, I think really paying attention is helpful.

I love Highbridge Springs water and I don't know if anyone else here does, but I think it's the best water in the world and those bottles are very heavy. We have a water dispenser in our, is a 

big advertisement. Yeah, I know where that was going, 

but they're very heavy and I wasn't able to really change the water myself [00:41:00] easily and bring that water in and it's something you don't really like, pay that much attention to.

But it was annoying to have to say to my husband can you change the water? Oh, 

yeah. 

Yeah. 

And then since I have been doing a lot more weights in the last two years, the other day I like. Brought in all our water bottles, actually went, brought in all my parents water bottles. They also love Highbridge Springs

You are starting to sound like a commercial brew now. 

Clue. Starting date. Sorry. 15% off your next order, 

but there is no way I would've been able to pick up that many heavy bottles and it just was a light bulb for me. 'cause I have observed so many patients over the years be able to do what they wanna do later in life and not, and those things to me are really important.

I wanna be able to continue to drink Highbridge Springs

for the rest of my life and I wanna be 80 years old picking up that bottle of water without asking for help. Yes. And that is a big [00:42:00] motivator for me to see myself improve and be able to do something I couldn't do before. 

Yeah that's a huge, that is a huge motivator for a lot of people I work with as well.

And I think the sooner in life that we see that, the better off we're gonna be. 

Yeah. Yeah. So pay attention. There's probably something you wish you could do and you ask someone to help you do it. And maybe that's your goal of I wanna be able to do this by myself. 

Yeah. Or trips. Yeah. Get a lot of folks that they want to take the trip to Italy or whatever they're concerned about.

The stairs, the cobblestone, streets. Oh yeah, we can do this. You can train for it. 

Actually one more thing on that too is if you can, if you have a spouse or partner, if you can let them know that it's important to you and if it's important to them, you can help them make time and they can help you make time.

So it definitely makes it easier if you're both, I dunno, you always feel like you're being pulled in a million different directions and Yeah. You sometimes I feel [00:43:00] selfish taking time to exercise for myself, even though I know I shouldn't feel that way. And I think it's easier when your spouse also does that and you help them make sure they have some protected time and they can help you make sure you 

do that.

That's a great point. I know that's something that Chris and I do on weekends be like, Hey, are you trying to do something, working out this weekend? When are you planning to do it? When can I do it? Let's match it up so we both Yeah. Can accomplish our goals. And just talking about it up front 

So we're talking about ourselves and how we can get ourselves to have this mindset. What do you really see in the people you've worked with that are masters athletes? What's in their mindset to keep them doing this?

One is that, that concept of self-efficacy, I mentioned they, they're very confident that if they put in the work, they're gonna get a certain result. That's key. And we see that with fo in the literature around positive age stereotypes, like folks that have a positive perception of aging, they usually have [00:44:00] that high self-efficacy and they're more active and they do the thing right.

Another key variable is they question authority, meaning that they've. Gone to a doctor or a physical therapist that may have took a picture of their hip or their knee or their back that said, oh my gosh, this is the worst bone on bone arthritis I've ever seen. You should not do X, Y, and Z. And they don't listen to 'em.

Or they're like, I wanna be able to, participate in this basketball game or this track event. Mm-hmm. Or whatever. And they're like, I'm gonna try and figure this out. And so they just feel like they can change. Like they have the opportunity to change their situation and they question authority and they're gonna do what they can to achieve the goal that they want to achieve.

And so the, these individuals are challenging, especially in the healthcare space, challenging a lot of preconceived notions of what's possible if [00:45:00] you've had a knee replacement or a hip replacement, for example, or back surgery. Because a lot of them are going against. The medical advice that they received.

And I don't want that to come across as don't listen to your doctor. Which it probably did that was not the goal. But I think especially around like orthopedic care and what return to function looks like what people are actually able to do. There are a lot of well-meaning advice that can limit a lot of people.

And these people really challenge a lot of those notions. 

Yeah. It, I hate it that we live in such a high, I don't know, lawsuit, community, yes. Environment. Because that's where it's come from. That's why so many physicians that you see, they have to give blanket statements because. They can't see what you're doing for your activity or know how you're training or know who you're working with.

So they just have to play it safe and say that, and I hate that. Yeah. Like I think that environment has caused this and has continued [00:46:00] to make people not stay active just because they receive that piece of advice. 

Yeah. And I get that. And I would do the same thing. And I think we also haven't had the opportunity to study to see is 

exactly 

the, like a great example are posterior hip precautions.

So if you've had a hip replacement and you go in from the back, you have precautions after that surgery, you're not supposed to bend your hip past 90, not supposed to pivot on it or rotate not supposed to cross your legs and. In the hopes of that we maintain that surgical site, that we don't have a dislocation or complications after surgery.

And this is what you hear given to almost anyone that when that approach is from the backside or posterior side and we're just not getting the point of studying A, do those precautions actually achieve the goal of reduced dislocations or complications? And then B, what are the long-term implications of this?[00:47:00] 

'cause what happens, what I see as a PT that works with these people for weeks and weeks, years afterwards, is that they have continued fear around moving that hip. And oftentimes those precautions are not explicitly discharged, like it can get lost in the mix. And so the effectiveness of posterior hip precautions end up being a net negative on these folks.

'cause we've elevated the fear of movement. We've made them very scared to go back to what they were doing or to participate. And physical activity levels go down and I, this is what I deal with is like the damage of that fear. yeah, just a lot of those things that we've assumed are going to be helpful may not be.

And we're just now getting to the point of seeing that. So now you're seeing a lot of surgeons that are not as conservative with those precautions. That's not the norm per se, but I've seen a few, a 

transition 

that's transitioning to where they're not in, giving such limiting advice and being [00:48:00] very restrictive in their precautions.

And those patients typically have a more positive perspective of their body, are more willing to engage in physical activity and can have, better outcomes long term. We're seeing this also, there's some really interesting research around, external precautions, like after some type of cardiothoracic surgery where usually, , you're not supposed to move your arms a certain way.

You're not supposed to lift over, 10, 15 pounds. That there's some new protocols that are not as restrictive and not as fear inducing and not as limiting to these folks and those individuals are having great outcomes as a result. So I think that whole world, and I'm not an ortho surgeon so like I, I want to acknowledge I, I'm not like speaking from a very authoritative space.

It's more from being familiar with some of the literature, but then also experiencing some of the repercussions of some harmful advice, well-meaning, but it ends up being harmful advice to some of these folks. 

Yeah, I know. I love that they're studying it more because I think they had seen that many [00:49:00] times that.

Some of the precautions were just like made up and they just stuck. There wasn't actually studies that came up with the pounds that you couldn't lift or whatnot. They just did what seemed safe. And everybody just did it and it got passed along and now they're actually like, oh, we should study this and see the difference that it makes, 

which that's progress, right?

Yes. And I'm thankful that they made a precaution and did it. Now we're studying it like it's just a part of the process of gaining truth. Oh yeah. So I don't wanna hate on those people per se, but I think we should definitely challenge those notions and say, Hey, is this the best way? Can we learn from it?

Yeah. 

 another pattern that I've seen in these folks is how they perceive challenges and like hard things to where they, they don't avoid them, they lean into 'em. They see the value of what those hard things can result in terms of what they're able to handle. So [00:50:00] when it comes to training, like they lean into the things they're really hard and challenging, and back to the self-efficacy.

They know if I endure this, I'm gonna have, some type of benefit or I'm gonna be able to achieve a goal. And when you rinse and repeat that day in and day out in your life it changes your whole perspective of what you can actually handle. And it's it just compounds. And so if someone perceives what used to be a very difficult or stressful situation and they train themselves and then they're exposed to that same situation, it's no big deal.

It's not that much of a stressor. And that just has implications for so many decisions in their life, what they choose to do, what they choose not to do. I've seen folks , that would join our gym that were, afraid to move 'cause they've had a surgery or an injury start to regain their independence.

They're starting to trust their body. They're getting all these physical benefits. They're perceiving their daily life [00:51:00] differently because the challenges become a little bit more manageable because they're training hard things on a regular basis, all the way to the point where they're like, you know what?

I've always wanted to take that trip to Italy. I'm gonna do it. I think I can handle that now. Like they. They just perceive obstacles very differently. And usually those obstacles become lower and lower. And that is very inspiring to me to see those folks and to see folks that have changed that mindset in their sixties, seventies, eighties.

And that, that just shows to me that you can teach an old dog new tricks. We can change. And yeah, I just look up to those people tremendously. 

fear definitely makes you age quicker. 

Yeah. 

 I'm not sure that is talked about enough.

Yeah. 

'

Cause it has so many 

implications 

Yeah. 

On multiple levels not just movement, but just fear in general can make you age faster.

And it starts so early. 

Got, I've got a seven and a 5-year-old. I'm new in the game of [00:52:00] parenting. But just even the precautions that are giving little kids like be careful, be safe.

And just, which yeah we, my son, like he does not have to mess. He might need that awareness, right? Like he does need to be a little more careful in certain situations. But just that obsession with safety from a cultural standpoint, it can be beneficial, but it also can create a lot of fear and a lot of doubt.

And folks that may not be willing to do certain things. 'cause there's so scared and concerned that's a whole nother topic. But I think it's instilled at a very young age. And then it just continues to compound over decades. 

What would you say to a 30 or 40-year-old that here's this and says, yeah, that sounds awesome. I'd love to be competing, doing something active when I'm in my eighties, but they're not really doing that right now.

What would you say to them as just the biggest priorities going through these next decades?

If they're not doing [00:53:00] anything right now. I think what we talked about of getting in that habit, of being physically active I is huge. Like just getting in the habit. If you can survive especially if you've got like a young family, if you're in that life stage. Or your career is popping off, or you've got, you're stretched so thin whether you have kids or not, right?

this is a very challenging phase of life for everybody. If you can hold onto that habit right now, there's light at the end of the tunnel and your time will expand and you'll be able to give more time to that. I think that's absolutely huge. But then also part of it's don't wait.

If you wanna be running in your eighties, sign up for that 5K. You don't even have to run it, just walk it. I'm sure you could walk it right now. Don't assume you're gonna have the opportunity when you're 80, 'cause he, you may not. And so I, I urge a lot of folks to do the thing now.

Yeah. There's nothing more that I hate is seeing people work so hard to reach retirement and not be able to enjoy it. 

Like it just breaks my heart. 

It's so sad to see [00:54:00] and has happened to so many folks. 

 And are there any other resources out there for people that, let's say, aren't seniors yet?

So forties, fifties, early sixties, that, that do wanna do more and be more active in sports or some other group activity? What other places would you recommend people look to find that comradery? 

Yeah, so the, for the senior games, 50 50 or 55 is the age limit. 

Okay. 

Which is young. 

It is, 

Yeah. 

Every year I get older.

It seems young, 

right? And I know I'm not in my fifties, but I imagine in my fifties I'm not gonna identify as a senior athlete. So there's not a ton of folks in that age group. But you can. But I think the recreational opportunities are starting to grow a little bit.

Pickleball has been huge, right? So looking up like recreational leagues, like YMCAs are also great hubs for that. Basketball, there's always some type of pickup game, and it usually teases out of like, all right, the 40, 50 year olds are playing, Wednesdays at [00:55:00] 8:30 PM pickleball leagues, now, there's what, three or four in Lexington of just like pickleball businesses? Yeah. So those types of communities, like whatever your sport is, just see if there's some type of community. But YMCAs are usually a good spot for that as well.

Marikas. Yeah. Amazing spot if you're into volleyball, right? So there's these little hubs. Yeah. Hockey, like the ice. 

Oh yeah. 

Center, yeah, just like searching around. There's usually gonna be some type of hub for that age group. That's been a big resurgence.

Post pandemic is recreation, athletics to where it's coming back, which is pretty cool. 

Yes. 

Yeah. 

Why don't you tell our listeners about your gym that you currently work through? 

Yeah, so it's hyphen the Gym for Active Aging. So we offer group classes, we offer physical therapy as well. And those two services for a lot of things we talked about, right?

Like you're gonna have an acre pain as you get more active. It is normal for that to happen. And so if you need help, we're gonna help you navigate that and continue to [00:56:00] stay active and not be. The stop sign, if you will, but more of the yellow light, the, where you proceed with caution and we'll help you do that so you can get right back to doing what you're doing.

So yeah, physical therapy group classes we're all physical therapists that have seen just a lot of suffering when people don't train or they let an injury stop them. And so this is our solution to, to hopefully help people age on their own terms. That's 

amazing. 

Yeah. We've learned a lot from you today.

I think the big things I've taken away is that. One, I learned the definition of a masters. Yeah. 

We're masters athletes in certain sports.

And then of course H Springs water is good, but Okay. Really I think any participation is good. And that's the main thing we wanna get across. Any activity is good, any participation is good, but do what you have to do to get through those years where you really don't have much to give, but [00:57:00] also push yourself and getting that competitive edge, whether that's a 5K or a, organized sport and looking into things like the senior games down the road.

We'll help you push a little bit farther and maybe make you reach some goals that you wouldn't have otherwise. And that community and having that social connection is important. And then also it sounds just like with nutrition, we talk about 30 different plants a week being the best.

Getting a variety in what you're doing from exercise probably is giving you the best result too. So not just running or just swimming, but doing that and incorporating balance and resistance training if you wanna have that ultimate independence and quality of life as you age. 

Yep. The only thing, and I would add that I haven't mentioned before from the community standpoint, sort folks that are like, man, I want to compete or participate in a sport or whatever I can't or.

Emphasize enough how welcoming these people are. [00:58:00] People may think, oh my gosh, these people are super hardcore, right? They're very intimidating. This is their life, just very extreme. And that's not the case. They are so happy and excited for people that are wanting to participate in their thing.

And so don't let that intimidation stop you, that there's gonna be people welcoming you with open arms. Yes, there are the hardcore people that take it very seriously, but they're not judging you for jumping in. They're applauding you and admiring they want people to get off the sideline, if you will.

And so very supportive. A group of folks by and large, across all the different sports that I've seen. 

That's awesome. 

It is. Yeah. I think that's a great way to end the show. We hope that you get off the sideline today and enjoy your day 

and see you next week.