Episode 5: Empowerment Through Rhythm: Nevi Outlier's Artistic Journey

Have you ever felt dismissed or underestimated, only to find empowerment through persistence and passion? Nevi Outlier's journey from writing poetry in geometry class to becoming a force in the underground music scene is a testament to the power of resilience and community. Growing up between New York and California, Nevi brushed off early skepticism and embraced opportunities to perform at church and open mics, eventually forming a successful music group post-graduation. Join us as Nevi shares how he transformed poorly organized local shows into vibrant, supportive events that highlight his talents and those of his peers, nurturing a thriving artistic community.

Transcript

Artist's Journey Through Music Scene

Speaker 1 0:01

I get so impatient . I'm pacing in my room like when will I pop so corny , overused , almost on my nine to five grind can't sleep , but I'm tired .

Speaker 2 0:12

Nevi Outlier , let's get it started . Tell me a little bit about yourself . Let's go before we jump into the music I want to know where it all started . Little Nevi came from all that good stuff .

Speaker 1 0:24

So I'm from New York , california , moved out there when I was about seven and then I started kind of rambling in one of my classes . I think it was like middle school was kind of one of those areas where I could realize I was doing something . I started writing poetry when I was around seven , but I like freestyle , but not really freestyle In one of my history classes when I was a kid and then at some point I started writing . I think that was around like age like 13 .

Speaker 1 0:52

I was in his geometry class and the way my school was set up at that point was we'd have like these block classes , right , so like the block schedule . So that means on like tuesday you go to a certain amount of certain classes and then on monday it's a different set of classes , um , and so those classes were long as fuck and I'd get my homework done or and so you'd have all this free time . So I would just like write raps and then kind of tour around the class and just showing everybody , not necessarily rapping out loud because my cadence was trashed to you right now .

Speaker 1 1:27

Yeah , yeah , I was just like they felt stupid and I wanted to . I wanted to share them because I kind of liked the , how humorous they were , and so I just bugged the shit out . Everybody else with like the , the raps that I wrote , and my teacher would like start stealing my raps away so I could actually do my homework . But um , and then from that point , like we started , like I started rapping at my church , uh , for a little bit prior to my new revolution as a human . But um , rap rapped at church and then , once I got to college , hit the open mics and did a bunch of those , tried to put out a project , failed and then graduated and did it again , but succeeded , this time , you know , with the same group of people . And now we're kind of here . So it's just kind of this up and down journey of like trying to create and find the right people to create with and recording as often as possible with , with those good people you know , um , always leaning on community to try to get where I wanted to go .

Speaker 2 2:30

So okay , and you've got , so you've got a whole group with you that performs um or that makes the music , or are you the main performer ?

Speaker 1 2:37

so I I feel like it's somewhat of a come not I . I wouldn't call us a crew necessarily , um , but yeah , I could . There's , there's a bunch of guys who I collaborate with often and have kind of grown accustomed to seeing along like just being in the scene , um . So some of those guys would be like um , barry juice , eric , dark huggy does it ? Um , sabi hyrum , torres mitchell , james , um , I kind of just fell upon them um , and going to one of my , my cousin's , a rapper as well , his name's console he he played here as well .

Speaker 2 3:19

He's my guy . Yeah , he's great .

Speaker 1 3:21

He's so good , so good , one of the best rappers I know . His voice is phenomenal , but , um , back in like top end of 2021 , um , he had a show because he just dropped the album and I go to the show and I hate this , to be transparent . I saw everybody who's performing besides like a couple of them , and I was like this is so poorly put together . This , um , the artists aren't that good , and so it kind of re-inspired me to focus on crafting , what I knew I could do , especially coming from school where I was already doing a bunch of curating and throwing shows , um , as well as rapping . And so I was like , all right , cool , I'm just gonna do this shit my own myself . So like , yeah , he , he plays .

Speaker 1 4:10

Probably like the next week , I started getting back in the studio recording my album that I was like writing all the time with just a bunch of beat star shit , and then , um , then just kind of hit the ground running , but in that I met a lot of people without telling them that I rapped . I was just like being outside supporting people and so built some connections and then I threw my first show and then they see I'm rapping and they see like what I can do and then , like we just kind of kept growing from there on the greater IE slash LA scene of like the real , real underground that knows me and sees what I can do and respect me for what I can do .

Speaker 2 4:54

Yeah , and you also curate shows here too .

Speaker 1 4:57

Yes .

Speaker 2 4:57

So that kind of helps build your community a little bit too yeah . How'd you get into that Like wanting to throw ?

Speaker 1 5:03

well , obviously got inspired because your shows weren't very good , you going to , so you're like I thought I can do this myself I think part of it is like in going to a lot of those shows and trying to get on um and knowing what I could do , it was really frustrating not to be able to nobody . Nobody would validate me when I said , oh , I can rap or I can do this , um , nobody , let me on the stage I feel like that happens a lot , though , especially as a singer .

Speaker 2 5:27

They're like oh , you're like , oh , I can sing . And they're like oh , that , that's cute it's cute . That's nice , it's cute and I respect it because , as a curator , I feel the same way like right it's hard . It's hard to take people seriously because I feel like every other person's like oh yeah , I'm a musician , I do music , what does ?

Speaker 1 5:40

that even .

Speaker 2 5:41

It's getting yourself . You're like no , but really For real , real .

Speaker 1 5:45

For real .

Speaker 2 5:45

I'm really about this , you want to bust out your Spotify and be like no really , no really .

Speaker 1 5:49

I work really hard at this .

Speaker 2 5:51

It's so hard .

Speaker 1 5:52

I'm a great performer and there's not too many people who take that part of the craft as serious . So it's frustrating and I frustrating and I get where people are coming from when they are saying like , oh , nobody's letting me on the stage . So that's like and I've heard that story , it's common like I've hit , I've hit a bunch of open mics and wasn't even an open mic , wasn't , didn't have the ability to get on the stage , like and that's it was so frustrating for me like to to do that . Or like there's some underground rap showcases that were like somewhat valid in in la , and I'd be like all right , cool , here's my project . I already know what I can do . I get tapped in with the people who run it . Run it . I'm like volunteering .

Speaker 1 6:37

I'm behind the scenes , still didn't get on the stage still not on the stage trying to bust down that door bust down the , and I thought the best way to do it was to just be genuine and put in the work . And then , sooner or later , somebody is gonna see me and want to see me in a position of power . And I mean , one of those guys encouraged me to throw shows myself and that was helpful , but they also didn't let me on the stage until after I had done so much work that they they had to . You know what I mean .

Speaker 2 7:10

It's kind of like that when you go into a job interview and they're like , oh , but I see you have no experience , You're like I need to get the job to get the experience .

Speaker 1 7:16

Yeah .

Speaker 2 7:17

It's so it's trying to break that stigma . I wish that more people would give you a chance . It's like , okay , cool , let me on the stage . Let me show you what I can do . I can really do this . It's going to happen .

Speaker 1 7:31

I hope so .

Speaker 2 7:32

That door is going to bust open . You're going to have that little spark , that little moment where you're going to be like , oh hell , this is it .

Speaker 1 7:38

I'm waiting for the floodgates to open and I want them to , and I open and well , I , I want them to , and I think it's a part like I think part of the journey is just the nose right and it is , and the frustration , like if I think about where I was last year , um , and throwing the shows at exhibit at their previous venue , and then to be where I am right now and to see , kind of like the changes in my mentality , some of my naivety , um , and like I've just grown so much , I've learned so many different things and I think that's necessary , and last year I was just broke , now I'm not broke , so like that , that also changes the impact of whatever you're doing , you know so because you're able to go in and record things or you know , pay for studio time , pay for stage time , because I mean a lot of places in la it's pay to play exactly , and I've never done that .

Speaker 1 8:26

I've never I've never , from what I can think of . I don't think I've ever paid to play like I've always finessed the system and had my friends find our way in the door and leverage our community in that way . So it's kind of it's a trip to see that . That's like most of the game it is , it's a lot .

Speaker 1 8:44

It's a lot most of the game like and you have to find ways to like , get people to like I don't know just support you too . That's the other thing about pay to play and and even just like selling tickets . Right , you have to find ways to leverage your network . Um , and a lot of that's just like greasing hands and kissing babies , you know what I mean , and like that's almost . I don't think that's worth it .

Speaker 1 9:12

I don't think that's it works , you know , like when you look at the numbers , like , or at least the streams like , sometimes , like I feel like I have like genuine fans , but there's not always a direct boost from when you're going and you're performing at these shows and you're making a bunch of friends to , oh , now they're listening to my music , now they actually genuinely are supportive of me . I think , like what I've noticed is a lot of that is just superficial , you know , and so it's like how do we , how do we get to the point where now we're exposing ourselves to a larger audience and we have like leverage in real life , and both of those things have to mix , you know , and I I think to some extent , like you can make friends and and and those do find yourself in the bigger doors , like those are impactful . But are you respected for for your art ? Yeah , you know .

Speaker 2 10:06

I think this is huge what you're talking about . Honestly , and I think as an artist as well , I know that this is something we always you know all of us struggle with it's like cool .

Speaker 2 10:15

I'm out there working my ass off trying to create a name for myself . I'm out there shaking the hands , playing the shows , meeting these people , but are they really listening to me ? Are they really like you said ? Are they being genuine or is it all just lip service ? Like , at the end of the day , are they going home and listening to my music , are they talking about it to their friends , like what is it that's going to be , that magic mineral that's ?

Speaker 1 10:35

going to push me through .

Speaker 2 10:36

Yeah , and that's the hard part too is because there's the platforms and the ways that we have to get ourselves out there now . Is it respectful , respectful , or is it just how much do we have to break ourselves down ? And oh , let me make this silly reel so you pay attention to me , but really my intention is for you to listen to my music . It's crazy .

Speaker 1 10:57

The attention economy is different . It's really different . It's been taxing , if honest to like , try to figure it out , but that's every artist right now .

Speaker 2 11:07

This is huge what you're touching on , because I think that there's I mean , not just yourself , not just myself , but so many artists are struggling with this , because we're artists , but then we had to play this game . I mean , I feel like that's exactly our society right now and what effect does that have on art ?

Speaker 1 11:26

And I think the way that that economy , the attention economy , works is it's forcing certain types of art to be uplifted , and I think there's a bunch of artists who are doing really critically interesting things .

Speaker 2 11:41

That aren't being seen .

Speaker 1 11:42

That aren't being seen Because it takes so much more machinery right .

Speaker 2 11:45

And real artists are like I don't want to play your game , I just want you to see my art . Yeah , that's huge .

Speaker 1 11:51

It's like , how do you get that coverage ? But you know we don't need me to complain no , but it's good .

Speaker 2 11:57

It's a conversation that needs to be had and I know that you know that's so relatable for everybody people listening that needs to be talked about . It's like we need to figure out , you know . I think we all need to get together and like figure that out or create our own stream , you know .

Speaker 1 12:12

Yeah , yeah , oh man .

Speaker 2 12:14

So take me back to when , because I was listening to Marathon which is fantastic .

Speaker 1 12:19

I love it .

Speaker 2 12:20

You can put it on your car and just drive down the street , or you can put it on to get in a good mood . It's just one of those good vibey songs . What was the process of writing that song for ?

Speaker 1 12:28

you . So Chloe and I had driven up to Moreno Valley to work with a couple of friends , one of those being Nishan , and then we stopped at , had another session with Berry Juice and John Mayer and Eric Dark . But the first session is how we got this on . Nishan turned on a couple of beats , or he started trying to turn on beats , and then the first one we landed on was this one um , and then we just kind of wrote um , laid down some rough vocals , uh , or rough vocals .

Speaker 1 13:00

I'm a little bit of a perfectionist in the studio , so a little scratch track and most of the time it ends up being so much more than a scratch track . So , like for this song , for instance , the , I think we had probably had one . I had one more edition post the first recording Um , I like I layered the course a little bit , um , which is really just like ad-libs on the course Um , and then , other than that , there was no other additions from my part um , and then chloe has she like reworked some of her vocals and so you get a lot of those stacks and the arrangement shifts like slightly because of um , the impact of her , and then we also added a baseline

Music Journey and Stage Presence

Speaker 1 13:45

. So , but that was a process for about , I want to say it was about two years um , we , we had to get the balances from nishan . That took us about like five months just trying to like figure out the schedules , figure out who's going to mix , figure .

Speaker 1 13:59

You know the life stuff is happening um , and then once we got those , then I took it to sabi sabi as the baseline um , then live stuff happens again . We're trying to get in in sync with chloe um , because our , our schedules are different and she has a bunch of stuff going on . I have a bunch of different stuff going on um , and then we , we get chloe in and then we do everything we need to do . She adds to those vocals and then mitchell wants to retake his verse . So it's just like there's the music , music's like this journey .

Speaker 1 14:33

I feel like I I was listening to the freddie gibbs project recently and he made a direct like acknowledgement of somebody who , oh , he said , um , who just died , what it was , a rapper who just passed and he like like shouts them out , right , and I remember I was listening to that and I was like , damn , like that happened like two months ago and this is on the project . I can't as well like this is wild to see that some songs are going to take you like maybe two or three years just to release or finish and or five or six months or five minutes like , and then there's some songs that are going to take five minutes yeah comparatively .

Speaker 1 15:12

So you know , this song just went through so much to get to where it was a marathon to to get it there .

Speaker 2 15:18

That's true marathon . So I'm hoping life and music as a whole isn't , isn't as much of a marathon yeah well , it's worth a listen . So everybody should go listen to marathon , go check it out shout out to chloe .

Speaker 1 15:29

Shout out , shouts out to Mitchell James . They're great artists .

Speaker 2 15:31

Yeah , they're great on there . And then you're also working on a current album , correct ?

Speaker 1 15:34

Yes , I guess it's like my first time publicly talking about it , because there's usually not a microphone in my face . Well , now there is getting it out there , um , it's , it's called idle grooves , it's , uh , it's a nine song , um , I guess it's like an lp , uh , executive , produced by haram torres . A lot of like high bpm songs , um , a little bit more experimental , um , some rap and dance music . Uh , that we started back in at this point like two years ago um , okay probably probably two and a half ish .

Speaker 1 16:13

Um , because I just met hyrum in the top half of 2021 . Uh , because that's when I dropped my first project . And then , um , one of the songs from our first session was happened probably like two months after I met him . So I'd say , say like March of 2021 or March of 2022 is on the project . So it's been a long time in the coming . It's a bunch of songs that I recorded in my bedroom with somebody who's now like my best friend . So it's been a journey , so I hope I can get it out at some point soon . It'll get out there . It'll get out there . Fingers crossed .

Speaker 2 16:48

Yeah , you're about two and a half years . Let's go , my friend , let's go . So , tommy , you have a very fabulous style , thank , you so much I noticed that last time I was here . So how do you maintain your unique personality and your style and authenticity when you're performing on stage .

Speaker 1 17:04

Personality , personality I I think so much of my stage presence is just like my sarcasm personified , just like this . There's small parts of me . Um , I think I'm pretty cheeky , naturally as a person I like that cheeky .

Speaker 1 17:22

That's a good one , and so now it's just lots of those reps like I've probably had close to 50 , 60 shows within the last two years either , from which is funny , like based off of how we started my conversation , our conversation , right , but so it's . I probably find out about a show like at least once a month , like a week before , sometimes it's like two days before .

Speaker 2 17:49

So it's just like all those reps oh my goodness , getting thrown on there just all the reps .

Speaker 1 17:53

We get so many reps . Like a performance half of the time isn't like a . I'm trying to put more passion into it , but a lot of times it's it's just a rep . You know , you just kind of somebody tells you here's the show , you just show up and you do what you got to do . A lot of times that's not even rehearsal . A lot of times , just like my sets are like it's a 25 to 30 minute set that I made up two minutes before I got on the stage and those songs are memorized and you're just comfortable with it and you're flowing and then you just talk a little bit of shit in between it . You know .

Speaker 1 18:22

Yeah , oh yeah , so I guess there's not much preparation that goes into like the personality , and I wish there was more . Like I feel like there's there's some performers who have so much structure in their shows and that's to their benefit , um , and I've been trying to figure out ways to bring more structure into it .

Speaker 2 18:38

I feel like so much natural flow of things is your style , like you don't have to like , think about it , so it's more natural and it doesn't look staged , you know yeah , but then the issue is when you get in a situation where you're anxious right like it's , like now you're forcing shit right , and so how do ?

Speaker 2 18:55

you get over your butterflies , though what's your ? Do you have a pre , like I don't know ? Do you have like a , I don't know ? Do you meditate before you go on , or do you have a shot ? Or you , you know , have a tea , or what's your ?

Speaker 1 19:08

I wish I could tell you I had something like I'm sober now , so the shots out the , out the picture you don't necessarily have to have alcohol .

Speaker 2 19:14

No , no , I know like some tea , or like you know , I love tea .

Speaker 1 19:17

I wish that , like it's , there's no centering myself , there's just . I like recently it's because I don't have as much time to rehearse it would be like me and whoever my dj is , or my friend , like higherram's , probably my hype man , or ben barry , my guy ben barry I don't feel like I've mentioned him . Ben barry is like my right hand . Um , we spent a lot of time together over the last couple years , but and what does he do ?

Speaker 2 19:39

he's a dj and stuff . Okay , he's a dj , it's primarily so .

Speaker 1 19:42

He's like my , my dj on stage , my hype man on stage , and then just you know my guy , um Hiram's , like my producer who and and also just recent collab , I mean consistent collaborator , um .

Speaker 1 19:58

But yeah , no , we , we don't really have a process . You know , you kind of just like jump into it and especially at the , the structure of all these shows that I've done is like , oh , my friend's rapping , cool , I'm gonna go hype man them and then I'm gonna go , and then what I usually try to do is like settle in , I might just ramble and talk a little bit of shit to the crowd and and and if the crowd's not fucking with me then I just rap . You know , but no real pre-planned or like real structure or process to it .

Speaker 1 20:30

I might stretch a little bit if I'm on the stage . A little warm up , a little warm up , you know what I mean .

Speaker 2 20:36

Are you would . You say you're pretty active on stage . You run around a lot . Are you really interactive with your ?

Speaker 1 20:40

audience . Yeah , I'm super , super active because I only got to see your curate .

Speaker 2 20:44

I haven't got to see you live , which I will . I want to see that I can show you some footage afterward , you know .

Speaker 1 20:49

But you know I'm really really active . Good , it's a lot of dancing , it's a lot of heckling the crowd , it's it's a mixture of of a bunch of stuff . So because of that , it's weird that , like , some of it's like freestyle , a lot of it's just like spontaneous , but I'm just making it up as I go , um , which is most of my stage presence yeah , I think too it might help too , because you do a lot of curating of shows yeah so it's .

Speaker 2 21:20

It's flying off the cuff . It's like a lot of improv and stuff like that . You're working with what you got . You're working in the room . You know how to like read a room , probably , so that is helping too with your stage show yeah , it's great .

Speaker 1 21:31

I feel like I I feel like my stage presence is a mixture of like and this could be a stretch but like comedy and and a little bit of like dancing , um , and then , of course , like quality music , right . So I've been trying to figure out how to like actually write jokes . Most of the time they're freestyled and I'm just like taking random shots at people in the crowd Did that one fly .

Speaker 1 21:58

Yeah , that's so entertaining to me too , like when I bomb or something goes over somebody's head . That almost gives me like more joy especially in the joking part of it , like I think the funny part of curating for me , curating is I'm just hosting , I'm emceeing , right , and so when I'm doing that , I'm really just making shit up as I go yeah like , and I don't know who I'm gonna transition into or if I'm gonna transition into something , so now it's just what am I ?

Speaker 1 22:28

gonna talk about ? I don't know , so I'll look at somebody in the room and try to take a random shot and see if it goes anywhere . Yeah , make a joke and see if it goes anywhere . It's a lot of that , um , but to fully answer your question , for the style , like I do a lot of I am a thrifter

Navigating Criticism and Artistic Authenticity

Speaker 1 22:45

through and through . I only buy my pants from levi's , shoes are all from vans , and then it's a lot of hand-me-downs and , yeah , pretty much all hand-me-downs are thrifted or , um , not really vintage , because if it's more than 30 and I'm and it's old , it's crazy to me that I'm spending so much money on it , so I feel the same vintage got out of vintage they put vintage in front of it and you're like full , I can get this a goodwill for like five .

Speaker 1 23:12

I walk out of a goodwill and spend 30 dollars with and get like five or six pieces . Why am I spending more than that for one piece ?

Speaker 2 23:20

oh man , I went to this little shop it was a few weeks ago and I was like , oh , stop it . You know I'm gonna get like a cute shirt or something like that like 65 for a t-shirt I was like what are we doing , babes ?

Speaker 1 23:30

what are we ?

Speaker 2 23:30

doing . I can go to the thrift store and get this for like five bucks go away . Doesn't make any sense .

Speaker 1 23:37

No thanks , I'm not gonna do it so I'd rather just get my hand-me-downs and and and all the free stuff that I can get , because that's my goal . I get I am a capitalist in the ironic sense just because , like , if it's not cheap , what are we doing here ? You know what I mean . Like there's just so much more you can do with your time and your money than spending 50 to 60 dollars on clothes , like shoes are already expensive enough , so it's just it's out of control , out of control .

Speaker 2 24:12

So okay , on that tip of as far as like entertaining and everything like that , how do you handle criticism ?

Speaker 1 24:18

I love critiques , I love it , I love critiques , I . So there's a story I've done like a couple interviews . There's one that I did a couple of , like a year or so ago with ia chrome um , and I tell . So I tell this story about um , my college professor when I was first performing um , and my style has always kind of been the rest . I feel like I barely learned , uh , cadence and just flow and the basics of that when I was like in my sophomore junior year . And so my , my professor walks up to me after a show . I felt like I killed it and she was like all right , either you're gonna figure out how to do this um spoken word shit or you're gonna learn how to like rap and if you want to rap , you need to focus on that . If you want to do the spoken word , you need to focus on that . And here's who you could go study um .

Speaker 1 25:10

And that changed a lot , so a lot of it's like when I get off the stage , it's usually pretty uncomfortable for me . One because , um , I'm personifying myself too , because I'm so critical . So , like I'm reading , I'm reading the crowd , I'm reading whether or not , like how my mics were gained up , how it's just a bunch of critiques , um , and so I really I take criticism on pretty well , um , if it's constructive and um , but I'm also critiquing myself a lot , so I love criticism I love that , because if you're not learning , you're not growing , and if you're not growing as an artist and you can't take that in and I mean not not all criticism you're like , oh okay some .

Speaker 2 25:50

you're like , okay , thanks , yeah , okay , move on . But there are some of're like , oh okay , some you're like , okay , thanks , yeah , okay , move on .

Speaker 2 25:52

But there are some of those genuine opinions and things that you're like okay , I'm going to marinate on that and I'm going to see what I can do with it and if it's working for me , yeah , maybe I'll change something up or maybe I'll go about something differently . That's huge . As an artist , you have to be able to do that . Yeah , I like to think I'm pretty coachable and like I think so much of why this album that I'm so proud of that's going to come out at some point .

Speaker 1 26:20

Um , soon , very soon . Fingers crossed , I'm just gonna send you all the good juju , let's go . But the the reason why I'm so proud of it is because I have friends that push me right and like I think it's important to have somebody be like no , you could do better , do it again . Do it again . Like to not just stop at the basics . Like I , we used a little bit of autotune on on this project because that was something that hyrum . Stop that right . I know autotune is crazy I .

Speaker 1 26:42

I was so anti-autotune , so anti-autotune right now , when we first started I was like no , turn that shit off right , like . But like we , we used it and I think I taught in using it . I learned how to use my voice better and learned how to like stay on pitch right and maybe it helped you know where you need to be yeah , like you turned it off right yeah , I mean , we used it a lot during the project , but like I I in .

Speaker 1 27:11

ironically , I think , in in this era , hip-hop is changing into something different , because we're using these resources in a way that like isn't as helpful for the genre , or maybe it's shifting the perspective of like , what we value in the genre . Me and my cousin talk about it all the time , but I think we have to figure out better ways to use the tools and also honor the key elements of it . Like , right now , everything shifted towards production , and I think we need to have great production that makes people feel , but we also need to have lyricism that is yes , Can we go back to lyrics ?

Speaker 1 27:44

please . I'm a rapper , I love you know , so I love good rap . Good rap there is some rap . I'm like babe what are you doing ? You're just word salad-ing me you , I don't even know like I want , I want some , I want some I want to feel right and I know what you're talking about . The hard part is a lot of the genre has shifted away from feeling right like I think nothing .

Speaker 2 28:06

It's just like let me make some money real quick right and it's both ends right , I think it's .

Speaker 1 28:11

It's equally as toxic to have rappers who only rap and don't make interesting production decisions right and then it's equally as toxic to see the people on the right um , who are just all auto-tuned and all cadences and all filling . And how can we merge that and bring something in the middle ?

Speaker 1 28:32

yeah , heavy medium right not the both sides , you know what I mean . But like , just like we need to , we need to push in that direction . I think right now the genre has shifted and I mean hip-hop's always been youth culture , music has always been youth culture . But because of that lack of connection to the core principles of the genre and like where we come from it's , it's lost all connection to , I think , what I think are our core tenets , you know um .

Speaker 2 29:03

It's lost its heart , it's lost its rhythm , its soul but somebody loves it , though , and that's the . That's the thing that's do they love it because it's good or do they love it because it's different ?

Speaker 1 29:13

I think culture is defined by moments in time yeah , in place and sadly that means that this culture is being pushed in a direction that I don't necessarily recognize . Um , but they love it because they've been hyped up and and part of that , part of my thought in the culture is derived in a time and place , is we ? We live in a in an ecosystem that's defined by social media and algorithms , and that there's powers that be that gets to push those algorithms and hype stuff up , like we wouldn't have a six nine without having a bunch of bots that are hyping up some guy who doesn't actually have the validity that he said he did . You know what I mean ? And so it's . It's it's getting harder to track authenticity and real fan bases and like connection yeah , because half the time they're just paying for it .

Speaker 1 29:59

They're just paying .

Speaker 1 30:00

You can go on and pay for thousands of followers and then sure that's going to push you forward , but it doesn't say that it's good it's not saying you're pushing out quality you're pushing out the money machine and it's not acknowledging the connection and so now we're like concerts have taken a hit right because of this , how our social media ecosystem has taken us in this direction . You know like now people don't know how to connect in the same way , like it's just . It's just a different world . Everything's for the camera , everything's the light , but you don't know how to dance when your favorite DJ is playing .

Speaker 2 30:34

You don't know how to sing along to the song . Put the phone down and be in the moment , Like we can be here . I want so badly for people to just be in the moment . Watch the entertainer who's in front of you .

Speaker 1 30:44

But then that's also why we have shitty entertainers , like there's a lack of people who know how to do what tyler can do , who know how to do what . What chance could do there's , there's , I . I think travis is is a form of the art form , but all he's doing is conducting a crowd and , yes , that's emceeing to some extent , but that's not entertainment babes , you're not putting a show on you're not putting a show on , and how like are we just gonna jump and let the music play behind us ?

Speaker 1 31:12

do we let kanye ? Do we let um ty dollar sign do those things where they just play music and you just look at them ? Yeah , like it's not have we lost the understanding of what it means to be in that environment and really put on a show and that's why you see these old schoolers still killing it , because they know how to put on a show . And they can sell tickets because of that .

Speaker 2 31:34

Oh , hell yeah , Because all day long I'm going to go see Ice Cube . All day long I'm going to go see Snoop Because I know I'm going to get a good show . I'm going to get what I'm paying for these new guys I'm like I'll put on the Spotify , right .

Speaker 1 31:46

Because they're going to sing along . All they're going to do is sing along to their songs and jump around , but they don't even know how to make you jump or make you feel you just struck a chord .

Speaker 2 31:55

Oh no , trust me , we can chat about this all day .

Speaker 1 32:02

I mean me and my cousin complain about it all the time . But I think there's really an issue because now there's rappers who don't even really rap . Issue because now there's rappers who don't even really rap , like the they . They don't even use autotune to sing or like actively interact with the music . So you're , you're , you're literally listening to a guy do karaoke , but like the music's still on .

Speaker 1 32:22

you know what I mean yeah like that is , and that's so much of the value of our art form is listening to somebody really evoke emotion and you can see them go back and forth with their lyrics or their hype man , or like you can engage with them when they , when they tell you to lift your hands and you're in a crowd , you know what I mean . Like it's almost like you can . You're hyped up by having to drink the kool-aid of whoever that person is , rather than like just existing within a crowd .

Speaker 2 32:51

If after a song you don't have some sort of emotion . That song is not for me at all if you're supposed to make us feel I'm either like . I either feel good , or either feel pissed off , or I either want to start a riot or I want to like change something yeah that's how music should make you feel yeah and it's like that's a difference .

Speaker 2 33:08

that's a huge difference between a recording artist and a performer . So all day long you can go in the studio and make music . If you don't leave that studio and go out and give that music to the people , sure , go sit in your box , but what's going to push you out there and cut that line ? It's a constant debate .

Speaker 2 33:33

We went down the rabbit hole . No , no , don't be sorry at all . These are all totally amazing things to talk about and things that need to be talked about , because that's what's missing the heart and soul is missing in music and all of that . So take me into your creative process a little bit . Give us a little peek behind the curtain . Where does it start for you ?

Speaker 1 33:55

I am excited by the possibility of not knowing what the outcome is going to be . Um , so a lot of what happened , um , especially with this new project , is I'd be like Hyrum . Here's this one sound that I thought was cool . I just wanna make a song centered around this weird drum pattern , right .

Speaker 2 34:19

Yeah .

Speaker 1 34:20

And then exploring right , oh okay , cool , now that we have that basis , what if we added this , or what if we did this , or what if we did that ? And then , after the whole beat's done , I'm like , oh shit , I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do with this .

Speaker 2 34:35

Like it's taking a whole left turn . I just got excited .

Speaker 1 34:39

I've made him do all this work . Now I have to come up with something to express what this makes me feel . And then I'm like , damn , these lyrics are hard to pull out . This makes me feel , yeah , you know . And then I'm like , damn , these lyrics are hard to pull out . But I'm like , somehow they're coming out of me and then now it's a whole song , right . Then we get to the performance side and I'm just like , oh , I don't know how I'm gonna perform . This has so much auto turn . Like what am I like ?

Speaker 2 35:04

what am I gonna do ?

Speaker 1 35:05

like I'm terrified , because it's one thing to express it , and then now you've expressed it , then now , how do you bring it to the audience and make them feel it when in a live environment ?

Speaker 1 35:14

So , um , I think my creative process is a lot of that , like just exploration of the what , if , like , and yeah , that's the whole thing . Even when I'm just writing by myself , it's like I don't know what I'm gonna write about . It's not like I sit down and I think , oh , I'm sad today about this one thing , and so I'm gonna try to write about this one thing . If I've ever done that , then it usually doesn't work . Half the time I'm like stuck , like picking at myself because , like I can't seem to express what I want to express , but instead it's just what's in the space and and how do I just make myself a conduit and receiver for all this energy that's being channeled and then capture the moment and then try to push through . It was just how you get Marathon and everything else that I've written , but yeah , I'd say that's how my creative process is .

Speaker 2 36:06

I like that .

Speaker 1 36:06

Yeah , because if you force it you're like , oh , that's garbage , yeah , and it's okay if it's garbage , but it's just like you gotta like I'm so anti trying to reproduce something that somebody else has already done . You know , thank you , just like . Why can't we start again ? Why can't we just do what we feel anyway you know and and push into uncharted lands ?

Vulnerability and Authenticity in Music

Speaker 1 36:26

I know that's uncomfortable for a lot of people like I think my favorite songs are songs that I cried .

Speaker 1 36:33

My favorite songs are songs that I was like oh , I don't know if I should be saying this , because I'm not even comfortable with it myself yeah like I was telling my friend last night about my song stimulus , which , like the , the opening line of the first verse is um , what's going in my , what's going on in my head I wish I could tell you about . I'm so forgetful so I'm acting horny instead . That feels uncomfortable for me to say . If I'm in front of an audience that I don't know like , if it's a christian friendly audience , or if it's like there might be somebody who's a little youthful , my mother's in a crowd I'm like , yeah , that's like who's spicy . You know what I mean like and so like .

Speaker 1 37:11

I feel like every time you create should be that damn .

Speaker 1 37:14

I'm being very honest with this audience and myself , and that's hard you know , a little bit of fear a little bit of fear , like if , if you're , you have to be able to admit truths to yourselves , right , and I die and live again to , to to admit these things to myself that I didn't even know were true , and I'm doing it in a way that I I'm not sure if I should release this or I'm not sure if I should record this , or you know what I mean . Like it just has to . You just kind of have to keep pulling and even if you're ashamed of it , like just talking about it , like in dealing with your fears on paper or through your instrument , is it's such a beautiful experience and so I'm always pursuing that and trying to elevate slowly , you know yeah , you completely encapsulated what it's like to write a song .

Speaker 2 38:05

It's completely . It's the most scary , messy , weird , exciting yeah a little bit dangerous thing you'll ever do yeah , completely so dangerous , yeah so dangerous . Yeah , because you're like , oh , is anybody gonna like it or they relate to it , and be like what the fuck ?

Speaker 1 38:22

the whole time there's a song called um stuck . That's on my next project and I remember because it's about a year old . At this point , right when we first made it , I was like shit , I don't know .

Speaker 2 38:34

Who's going to listen , fuck ?

Speaker 1 38:37

Damn , I don't know who's going to listen to this , you know . And then I'd like , I'd like create all these disclaimers before I showed it to people , because it was like fuck , I know it's weird , I know it's weird . Like you don't . Like I know it's weird , like like I know it's , you don't have to like it .

Speaker 2 38:54

Like it's fine , like like it's and people probably loved it and they love it .

Speaker 1 38:58

But like I'm like , damn , I'm so , like I'm scared of this . I've gotten more confident about it now but like , here's this leap of faith I'm taking because I needed to express this and I and I wanted to explore you know , and then you slowly get more and more bold , or , or , yeah , emboldened . When you do it more often , you know , and you jump into the water and you're doing weird shit , like , like , um , like future did on that one song with kendrick , where he's like , like , like it's like , like , why are you doing that ? But now people love it . Kendrick , where he's like , like it's like , like , why are you doing that ? But now people love it kendrick lamar in general .

Speaker 2 39:33

It's funny because I love , I'm absolutely obsessed with kendrick and I'll listen to my husband's like you like that guy and I'm like yes I'm obsessed . First of all , his lyrics are incredible the weird shit he does with his voice .

Speaker 2 39:45

I don't know , I'm just obsessed because it's different and you don't hear that a lot lately you hear , hear the same shit all the time , but I love it and I think that's an artist where he's like I'm going to do my thing and if you like it , cool , if you don't , I don't care . And that , if I can give anybody any advice in this game , do you ?

Speaker 2 40:04

all day and be 100% you , because you're going to find your tribe . Your tribe is going to come to you and they're going to love you for it , because they're like , oh , this person doesn't give a fuck , they're doing it , they're doing their thing and you're going to find those people because they appreciate that . They appreciate that different .

Speaker 1 40:20

Yeah , All day long . I'm dying for that type of honesty and authenticity within music , and I think the people who are succeeding right now are those people like the tylers , the billy , the um , yeah , like we don't need the pristine version of shit anymore , you know , and so I feel like there's been a surge previously of people who are just kind of like filling in , like the copy and paste modes of shit .

Speaker 1 40:46

Yeah , safe , they do what the producers tell them to do , like and it's like you need to try some shit , do do different just be bold , and so I'm I'm hoping that there's more artists like that , who are willing to be that vulnerable , like I think that's where art needs to go , and I think if we do that , we will restore ourselves back to just greatness , you know art .

Speaker 2 41:07

The art will come back .

Speaker 1 41:08

The art art I think art is the most important thing , like music and rap is the most important thing to try shit and be artful , you know so so if you can give your at this point in your career and what's your you gotta get that album out .

Speaker 2 41:25

We know that's on them , we know that's on the forefront . But your goal for like the next two years I always say two years , because five years we're way off let's go to what's your two-year goal so thank you for calling me a career that's so kind of you ? Um oh yeah , you're working . Are you working your ass off ? Yes , it's a career . It doesn't have to make you money . It makes your soul happy .

Speaker 1 41:47

It's your career okay , yeah , so the I think my goal for the career , my career in this next two years , I really , of course , get the album out . That's the first

Artist's Journey Towards Full-Time Performing

Speaker 1 41:56

step . Um , I would love to go on tour in a way that makes sense . I've seen some of my peers go on tour and I admire them so much because they did shouts out to damage . I think she's so bold and snowy , xavier , like I , I look at the , the moves they're making and it and it excites me . But , um , yeah , I , I want to go on tour , I want to . I want to be a performer , full-time performing artist , and I want it to make sense . And that that's the terrifying part , because right now there's so much security in my life with having like a full-time job and and and moving in that way , and luckily I live with my parents so it's not as risky . Um , but I want , I want to have enough listeners to travel and check out new places and I want to be respected as an artist and as a performer , um , at least nationally . Uh , that is my main goal . I don't want to . Fingers crossed , there's a way to have a middle ground for that , where you can , at least nationally . That is my main goal . I don't want to fingers crossed . There's a way to have a middle ground for that , where you can be in the studio consistently and perform at bigger shows all the time and rehearse and still not be huge , because I would hate to be ice spice outside the like , out the gate , but , yeah , I just want to perform . I want to be ice spice off outside the like , out the gate , but , um , yeah , I just want to perform . I want to , I want to be an entertainer full-time .

Speaker 1 43:17

I think that's like my , my goal for the next two years . I haven't right now . That's just like trying to make sure this project is pristine and making sure my rollout is pristine , um , and trying to be patient with myself with that . But my goal is just to be able to entertain and and be a an honest and vulnerable voice for everything that is to come . Yeah , um , because I think that's what's needed , especially in this couple years just having bold voices who are willing to be vulnerable and push back on not only the status quo but the bullshit that's going on , you know , 100% . In a way , that's like reflective of the direction that society's moving Like . I think Kendrick did a great job with that , with Mr Morales and the Big Steppers . I think like he pushed and not everybody was down for it , not everybody like understood it , but he was having an honest critique and being in conversation with where society is and where he is , and I think that's what I desire to be in the next two years I love that .

Speaker 2 44:22

I'm here for that . All of that um so on . Um another subject . Okay , I always ask my lovely interviewees what is your favorite scary movie ?

Speaker 1 44:33

I am a bitch , so I don't have one oh , okay , okay .

Speaker 2 44:37

So what is your favorite genre of movies ?

Speaker 1 44:39

um , I'm a okay .

Speaker 2 44:40

So thrillers slash , rom-coms okay , okay , so you don't have a favorite though favorite genre no , no favorite scary movie .

Speaker 1 44:50

You said thriller oh yeah , no , like I guess I mean if the purge is classified as a scary movie I think . So I'd say the purge is pretty fucking scary I feel like is that that's not a scary movie , like it doesn't give me nightmares ? So that's is , I think , as a concept . It's kind of wild to see . It feels too close to reality for me but I love like the purge .

Speaker 1 45:15

I think it's a great , a great film . So the purge , um , but also like , just kind of like those dark , dark comedies , so like , um , uh , sorry to bother you is like one of my favorite movies for a while , just kind of . And that feels scary to me , like living in a reality that like it's that unserious and and lacks irony . Um , is a terrifying concept . But yeah , I like , I like , I like satire , I like big comedies , so , um , you know , like suspenseful shit , so , but that's not a genre . So I hope that answers your question yeah , I think it is .

Speaker 2 45:54

I think it's a genre you nailed it thank you well , thank you for your time . It has been fabulous talking to you . I could I could rap to you about music all night long , so it was a pleasure .

Speaker 1 46:04

I enjoyed it .

Speaker 2 46:05

I will see you again soon . And then , when is your next show ?

Speaker 1 46:08

no clue , I'll figure out sometime this week or next week well , everybody needs to stay tuned . Yeah , yeah hiring is playing a show this wednesday . I don't know if that's good . This is going to come out fast enough for it , but probably not . But um , check my instagram . I'll post about it .

Speaker 2 46:23

I probably won't find out I'll find out all the links to all of your stuff , because we have to see you out there . Get out there , get to la , come play some shows with us .

Speaker 1 46:31

I would love to Let me know .

Speaker 2 46:33

Awesome . All right , Take care of you and we'll see you again soon .

Speaker 1 46:36

Sounds good , thank you .