Doctoring the Truth
Welcome to Doctoring the Truth, a podcast where two dedicated audiologists dissect the world of healthcare gone rogue. Explore jaw-dropping stories of medical malfeasance, nefariousness, and shocking breaches of trust. The episodes provide deep dives that latch onto your curiosity and conscience. It's a podcast for truth-seekers craving true crime, clinical insights, and a dash of humor.
Doctoring the Truth
Ep 15-The Sound of Violence: An AuD Killer
What happens when THC levels reach 95%? A young audiologist's world shattered after just two hits from a marijuana bong sent her into a violent psychosis that left her boyfriend dead with 108 stab wounds.
When police responded to a domestic disturbance call in Thousand Oaks, California, they discovered a scene straight from a nightmare – a bloody body on the floor, a woman stabbing herself repeatedly in the neck, and eight officers unable to subdue her even after multiple taser deployments. The woman was Bryn Spejcher, a 27-year-old audiologist who had been living what many would consider an ordinary life just hours before.
Experts revealed how modern cannabis bears little resemblance to the relatively mild marijuana of decades past. With THC concentrations soaring from 3-4% in the 1970s to potentially 40% or higher today, users face risks that many don't comprehend until it's too late. Cannabis-induced psychosis – a condition where marijuana triggers severe hallucinations, delusions, and complete disconnection from reality – can happen to anyone given a high enough dose, regardless of prior mental health.
The case illuminates a troubling intersection of recreational drug use, mental health, and legal accountability. While Spejcher was ultimately convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to probation rather than prison, the incident transformed multiple lives forever. Chad O'Melia's family lost a beloved son, while Spejcher lost her career and now lives with the knowledge of what happened during her psychotic break. Perhaps most disturbing is the revelation that up to half of those who experience cannabis-induced psychosis may later develop chronic psychotic disorders, raising urgent questions about marijuana regulation in an era of expanding legalization.
Have you or someone you know experienced unexpected reactions to cannabis? Share your thoughts and follow us for more eye-opening explorations of medical cases that challenge our understanding of mind, body, and responsibility.
Sources: The majority of sources for this episode were obtained from The Dr. Phil Podcast, episode 265 (two parts), entitled Marijuana’s Lethal Consequences: The Exclusive Interview with Bryn Spejcher.
Court Documents from Ventura County, including the Appellant’s Brief
Electronically FILED on 12/3/2024 by Adriana Winters, Deputy Clerk
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Amanda Jenna.
Speaker 2:Heyo, how you doing. I'm doing fabulous. How are you I?
Speaker 1:am like the spring I am reborn, I am alive.
Speaker 2:The sunshine is giving me life.
Speaker 1:Yes, I am post pneumonia Currently trying to get enough energy to stand upright all day without passing out. But we'll get there. We'll get there. Small goals, it does help that it was like I know we're such Minnesotans we have to talk about the weather every time, but I mean, it's so true 80 degrees today, holy moly. Yes, please Open toast.
Speaker 2:I know, yes, and I was texting with some of my friends in Duluth and I was like, oh my God, you guys, this weather is giving me life. And then I was like, oh gosh, I mean, it is like nice for up there, I guess, but it's like 30 degrees colder, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean here we are in the balmy South, Like Southern Minnesota is so nice. Yeah, I mean we don't have the beautiful scenery that they do. I mean we have a lot of cornfields but I will say I don't mind me some cornfields if I can sit on my deck and soak up a little 80 degree vitamin D.
Speaker 2:I know, and me and my doggie have been outside as much as we can.
Speaker 1:Well, oh, I have a correction section. So last week I claimed that I found an article, or, yeah, that I found a case, uh, but I lied, it wasn't me. This case that I'm going to talk about today was recommended by a fellow audiologist and former student of mine, samantha. Oh, samantha, yeah, samantha sent the article to me and said do you want to do this? And I went down a rabbit hole. So, thank you, samantha, oh nice. She said that her supervisor in grad school went to school with the defendant that we're going to be talking about in this case. So shout out to.
Speaker 1:Sam, I'm so proud of you, girl.
Speaker 2:Sam, thank you. I actually love it when people send us a case ideas. I have gotten a lot. Some of them are not closed cases yet, so I we haven't been able to cover them. So if you sent me something and you're like, why isn't she doing that, it's because it's it's still ongoing.
Speaker 1:Which I guess we could do it. Ongoing, yeah, I, I mean. So here's the thing is, we do have a patreon we're about to launch, so I mean, we do want to hear from you guys maybe that could be our bonus content like more current event stuff, updates on other cases. Um, amanda and I just like shooting the bull, I don't know. Um, just let us know what you want to hear for Patreon, so, but I think that's a good idea too. Is like more recent stuff that we can just kind of build on as extra content for our listeners.
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Speaker 2:Oh yeah, um, can I make a quick insert because I just remembered when you started reading the coffee thing. But you guys, I posted a poll on social media for the organox and the paragonics, um, liver guard, did you see it? No, I learned how to put my audio over like scrolling, like a recording on my phone, um, and so anyway, you guys, the poll is out there, and the poll question was these are cute, right, and answers are either yes or no, and the only answer obviously is yes.
Speaker 1:So oh my goodness, that orange and and white thing that preserves livers and stuff. Oh my gosh, okay. Is that on instagram, on our instagram, facebook, and tiktok doctoring the truth podcast at instagram and doctoring the truth at facebook. Oh my goodness, okay, I can't. I can, I take the poll too?
Speaker 2:Yes, please, everybody take the poll.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love it. Okay, and then we'll we'll get the results at our next episode. That's awesome. Thank you for doing that.
Speaker 1:So, for sources for this episode, the majority of them were obtained from and it's not because I'm a huge fan, but the Dr Phil podcast, episode 265, because it was a two-part episode entitled Marijuana's Lethal Consequences the exclusive interview with Bryn Spacer. It was basically 80 minutes of her talking about this incident, and so that's why. And then court documents from Ventura County, including the appellant's brief that we're going to talk about at the end, and then there's a ton of different news sources and articles that will be listed on our show notes, okay, okay. So on may 27th 2018, a police dispatcher received a call for domestic disturbance.
Speaker 1:Deputies were utterly unprepared for what they found when they arrived at the condominium at Thousand Oaks in California. A male's bloody body lay lifeless on the living room floor by the stairs in a pool of blood, with multiple apparent stab wounds. A young woman writhed on the floor across from him, screaming and covered in blood, with a knife in each hand. Her screams were primal and hair-raising. Blood covered the surfaces of the walls and the carpets, chairs and furniture looked like they'd been tossed in a tornado and a husky dog lay whining and panting with an apparent stab wound in its chest. The deputies called for backup.
Speaker 1:As the woman repeatedly stabbed herself in the neck with a serrated kitchen knife, eight officers attempted to restrain her. They tased the woman to try to get her to release the knives from her grip. Once, twice, three times, four times no avail. A police officer then wielded his metal baton, striking the woman's arms, shoulders and hands, trying to remove the knives. He later shared that this was the first time he'd ever used his baton during his career and that he suffered PTSD from the incident. He ultimately was able to retrieve the knives after hitting this woman nine times, breaking her wrist and her fingers in the process. She later thanked him for saving her life.
Speaker 2:Oh my good, holy heavens. Okay, I know we just started, but did I hook you in? Yes, I know that you all can't see me, but she could probably see me. And it was like grabbing my face, then covering my mouth and, oh my god, my hands were in the air and I thought, oh my gosh, I should start recording this because it'd be funny to post on social media media. But I didn't want to record you without your consent, so anyway.
Speaker 1:Oh, I always have my consent, especially now that I don't have pneumonia face anymore.
Speaker 2:All right, so Okay, tell us what happens next.
Speaker 1:So this woman was Bryn Spacer, a 27 year old audiologist. Bryn Spacer was born in January 1991 in Illinois and grew up in the northwest suburban town of Bloomingdale. She was raised in a close-knit family with her parents, michael Spacer and Lori Pierce, and three brothers, glenn, kevin and Daniel. From an early age, bryn was diagnosed with hearing loss and began wearing hearing aids at the age of four. Spacer's hearing loss was a result of complications from a neonatal procedure called extracorporeal membrane oxygenation or ECMO, which she underwent shortly after birth. Ecmo is a heart-lung bypass treatment used for critically ill newborns, but it carries a known risk of causing sensorineural hearing loss. As a consequence, bryn developed a significant hearing impairment early in her life. Her hearing loss contributed to a sheltered upbringing, as she often avoided overwhelming situations due to her hearing impairment. Friends and family described her as naive and having lived a sheltered life. Court records stated that Bryn had a cochlear implant to help her hear. Despite her challenges, bryn developed a passion for helping others with similar disabilities. She pursued a higher education and earned her doctoral degree in audiology from Washington University in St Louis. In a 2016 video, she expressed her eagerness to work with hearing loss patients, stating I'm excited to become an audiologist. I'm ready and I want to work with patients who have hearing loss. I want to give them hearing aids. I want to give them cochlear implants. I want to be the best audiologist that I can be. After completing her education, brynn moved to Los Angeles to begin her career as an audiologist, and she was accompanied by her hearing service dog, aria, and they spent much of their free time at a dog park in Thousand Oaks. There she met Chad Amelia, a young accountant, with whom she began a romantic relationship. Chad Brandon Amelia was born September 27, 1991, in Santa Clarita, california, and was raised in the Newhall area alongside his younger brother, shane. He attended Peachland Elementary School and later graduated from Hart High School, where he was an active member of the football team. Chad's father, sean Amelia, described him as someone who could connect with anyone, often seeking out individuals who appeared alone at gatherings to make them feel included. He was known for his friendly, welcoming nature and is a deep appreciation for his Irish heritage. After high school, chad pursued a career in accounting, working for a firm in Camarillo, california, and studying to become a certified public accountant. He was described by friends and family as hardworking, dedicated and someone with a bright future ahead of him. Chad met Spacer at a dog park in Ventura County a few weeks before his death. The couple spent considerable time together in his final weeks. His untimely death had a profound impact on his family, with his mother, michelle Larive, reportedly falling into a depression and passing away within years of Chad's death.
Speaker 1:So back to the night in question. At 10 30 pm, bryn took her service dog, anya, to the second floor of Chad's condo. Chad also had a dog whose name was Athena. Chad and Bryn sat on the couch and chatted for a few hours and then he said he wanted to get ready for bed and he needed to smoke a bit to unwind. He went out onto the patio and she joined him, as she knew it would take him a while to smoke and she didn't want to sit in the living room on her own waiting for him. He had a bong. She asked him for a hit he was excited to share.
Speaker 1:She'd smoked from a bong a week prior, but had only smoked pot a handful of times before that. She'd never reacted before. She took a hit, coughed and asked for water. He laughed. He then remarked how high he was and she said she didn't feel much. He was shocked. He said oh okay, well, let's make this intense for you. She was skeptical and wasn't sure if he was kidding. He grabbed something from his drug kit and added it to his bong. She noticed that he'd puffed away and created something that looked like a milky smoke. She didn't feel like smoking more, but he rushed her and waved the bong in her face. She felt pressured. Hurry, you have to inhale now, quickly, he urged. She obliged for two hits.
Speaker 1:Immediately she felt different and began having a scary reaction. She felt intense burning in her throat and lungs and began tearing up and felt the need to vomit, which was intense. She left the chair on the balcony and tried to drink water, but it stuck in her throat. She went to the bathroom to try and induce vomiting. She noted that Chad appeared in and out of her peripheral vision. She asked for an inhaler because she had asthma, but he didn't have one to offer her. He left bottles of water on the sink.
Speaker 1:She tried to talk but couldn't seem to form coherent sentences. She tried to lie down on the couch and vertigo set in. Chad came up to her face and poured water on it, began asking her questions and came in and out of her line of vision. Brynn said he kept laughing at her and told her to close her eyes and sleep. She remembers trying to ask him stay awake in case I choke to death. This was the last conscious memory that she had. She began to have visions, as if she was looking down on her own body and she felt paralyzed. She started thinking she was dead. She heard various people crying over her dead body, including her mother.
Speaker 1:She notes that the next phase of her experience was traumatic, as if she were watching someone else doing all of these horrible things. There were no thoughts, no emotions, no morality. She stated she was watching as if she were a zombie. She describes it as if looking through a TV screen. She said quote the screen turned towards the kitchen and the two hands grabbed two knives from the knife block on the counter.
Speaker 1:She noted that she watched the hands throw the knives at Chad. Then it grabbed another two knives and kept them in its hands. The screen moved to walk out of the kitchen and the left hand stabbed a brown dog, which was Chad's dog. The screen moved towards Chad on the other side of the dining table. He was just standing there. As I got closer to him. I saw the knife in the left hand stab him in the abdomen. Then it just went black.
Speaker 1:The next thing I remember the screen popped back open again. His body was on the floor and then my body or the screen, fell to the floor. Then I heard the roommate say Brynn, what are you doing? And the screen turned 180 degrees and saw the roommate at the top of the stairs. And then the screen turned back and I saw the hands continue to hurt Chad and then it would go black and I would hear voices keep going Don't stop, you're almost there, you can do this. And there were more encouraging words for I don't know what.
Speaker 1:And then the next thing I remember was seeing the knives aimed at my throat, and that's when I was trying to hurt myself. The more pain that was in my throat, the more it was like I was in a doctor's room and they were trying to rescue me. I remember screaming, everything going black, and then the throat thing where I felt I was helping staff rescue me as long as I could stab straight into my neck. At this point Dr Phil interjected. Sometimes when, amid acute psychosis, extreme pain can help bring a person back to reality. And Bryn responded the more I stabbed myself, the more I felt I was getting myself back to life. And Bryn responded the more I stabbed myself, the more I felt I was getting myself back to life. Spacer was then transported to Los Robles Regional Medical Center, where she underwent surgery and spent four days recovering from self-inflicted injuries, including neck wounds.
Speaker 1:I think there were 48 stab wounds and a broken arm sustained during the arrest. On June 1st 2018, after her release from the hospital, spacer was arrested and charged with first-degree murder. Her bail was set at $500,000, and she was scheduled for arraignment on June 4. During the investigation, spacer reported experiencing hallucinations and delusions after consuming high-potency marijuana, leading to the fatal attack. Both defense and prosecution experts concluded that she suffered from cannabis-induced psychosis. Consequently, the charge was reduced to involuntary manslaughter.
Speaker 1:In December 2023, spacer was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and in January 2024, she was sentenced to three years of probation and 100 hours of community service. She had spent six days in jail and was required to attend a 52-week course in domestic violence prevention. She stated she was shocked at the sentencing and that she was sure she would go to prison and had been researching how to survive in the prison system. So cannabis-induced psychosis is this a thing you know? In my mind, I was like thinking of marijuana as something like the old 1970s 1980s movies Cheech and Chong everyone's relaxed laid back hippy-dippy, but apparently it is a thing.
Speaker 1:So cannabis-induced psychosis is a rare but clinically recognized condition in which the use of cannabis, especially the high-potency strains, triggers acute psychotic symptoms like hallucinations, delusions, paranoia and disorganized thinking. As Dr Phil put it, it's not your grandma's marijuana anymore. In the 60s and 70s the strength of THC in marijuana was 3 to 4%. Now it can be 35 to 40% and some products manage to deliver as high as 95%. So here's a little more information into the science behind cannabis-induced psychosis. It's classified under the Substance Medication Induced Psychotic Disorders in the DSM-5, which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It's diagnosed when psychotic symptoms occur during or soon after cannabis use and symptoms are severe enough to impair functioning and the episode is not better explained by a pre-existing mental disorder. Key symptoms are visual, auditory and tactile hallucinations.
Speaker 1:Delusions, especially paranoid or persecutory. Sounds good. Delusions yeah, I'll go with that. Disorganized thinking or speech, severe agitation, fear or confusion and loss of insight or awareness of reality. The biological mechanism of THC and dopamine dysregulation is that the psychoactive compound in cannabis, which is tetrahydrocannabinol, thc, activates CB1 receptors in the brain's endocannabinoid system. This interaction disrupts dopamine transmission pathways in the brain, particularly in the mesolimbic pathway which is implicated in psychosis.
Speaker 1:The overstimulation of this reward slash motivation system may lead to abnormal salience attribution, which is a hallmark of psychotic thinking. So the endocannabinoid system is the body's natural cannabinoids that regulate mood, cognition and perception. Thc hijacks this system, especially in vulnerable individuals, leading to misperception of reality. There are some risk factors. Some individuals are more likely to experience cannabis-induced psychosis due to a combination of biological and environmental factors such as frequent or heavy use, personal or family history of mental illness, particularly schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, polysubstance abuse, trauma or stress, and then high THC concentration, especially over 10% THC. So high potency cannabis is often linked to what they call skunk varieties.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's because how it smells I always thought and like my, my knowledge base is not big in this area but I always thought if it was like skunky or smelling, then it wasn't as good. But that's opposite, I guess.
Speaker 1:Huh yeah, I don't know. Yeah, uh, so skunk varieties are linked to a greater risk of developing psychosis, and daily users of high potency cannabis are up to five times more likely to experience psychotic disorders compared to non-users. And then early and frequent use. So initiating cannabis use during adolescence and engaging in frequent use are significant factors for developing cannabis induced psychosis. Cannabis-induced psychosis it usually resolves within days to weeks after stopping using cannabis, but some individuals develop a persistent psychosis or are later diagnosed with schizophrenia spectrum disorders, and around 25 to 50% of first-time cannabis-induced psychosis patients later develop chronic psychotic disorders, especially with repeated exposure, which is so scary, I can't yeah. Treatment. Immediate care often involves antipsychotic medications like olanzapine, risperidone and benzodiazepines for agitation. Long-term management includes psychoeducation about the substance, risks, abstinence from cannabis and monitoring for the development of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders, as well as psychotherapy and psychiatric follow-up. While causality is debated, there is a strong correlation between cannabis use and increased risk of psychosis, particularly in vulnerable individuals. Particularly in vulnerable individuals, studies from countries with legal cannabis have reported higher rates of emergency room visits for cannabis-related psychosis following legalization. Ongoing research is focusing on genetic predispositions and the threshold of THC concentration that significantly increases psychosis risk. Individuals with specific genetic variation, such as in the AKT1 and COMT genes, may be more susceptible to this.
Speaker 1:There's a rising incidence in Denmark. A study analyzed data from 1994 to 2016 in Denmark and found that the annual incidence of cannabis induced psychosis increased from 2.8 to 6.1 per 100,000 persons. This rise coincided with an increase in dual diagnoses of schizophrenia and cannabis use disorder. Global risk estimates approximately 1% of regular cannabis users may develop this psychosis over a 10-year period. Especially when factors like high THC potency, early onset of use and genetic predispositions are present, there is a risk of transition to schizophrenia.
Speaker 1:Up to 50% of individuals hospitalized for cannabis-related psychotic symptoms may later be diagnosed with schizophrenia. A 2019 meta-analysis reported that 34% of those with cannabis-induced psychosis transitioned to schizophrenia, which is a higher rate compared to psychosis induced by hallucinogens, which is 26%, or amphetamines, which is 22%. Psychotic symptoms often resolve within days to weeks after stopping cannabis use, but in some cases, symptoms may persist, which lead, as we talked about, to a diagnosis of a chronic psychotic disorder. Treatment approaches typically involve antipsychotic medications, psychotherapy and education on the risks associated with cannabis use. Abstinence from cannabis is crucial to prevent recurrence, and now it's time for a chart no chart.
Speaker 2:No, oh, I got froggy there. Just get another one in there good for you.
Speaker 1:Um okay, alley cats. Welcome to the chart note segment, where we learn about what's happening in medicine and health care. So a few weeks ago, mit Technology Review published a piece on bodyoids. Have you heard of? This no, bodyoids are living bodies that cannot think or feel pain, so in this piece, a trio of experts argue that advances in biotechnology will soon allow us to create spare human bodies that could be used for research or to provide organs for donation.
Speaker 2:Hey, then we don't have to sell them on the black market y'all, we can come back to these body parts. What is this? What is this trend? I think like the universe wants us to create a process for the tracking, because I loved the idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, all right. So if you find your skin crawling at this point, you're not the only one. It's such a creepy idea. Yeah right, alright. So if you find your skin crawling at this point, you're not the only one. It's such a creepy idea. It's straight from the more horrible corners of science fiction. But suspend your disbelief for a minute, because bodyoids could be used for good. And if they're truly unaware and unable to think, the use of bodyoids wouldn't cross everyone's ethical lines, although that's what the authors of this article argue, but I'm not so sure.
Speaker 1:The idea is already stirring plenty of ethical debate and controversy. One of the main arguments made for bodyoids is that they could provide spare human organs. There's a huge shortage of organs for transplantation. More than 100,000 people in the US are waiting for a transplant, and 17 people on that waiting list die every day. Human body oids could serve as a new source. One approach to the shortage of organs is the use of gene-edited animal organs. Animal organs don't typically last inside human bodies. Our immune systems reject them as foreign, but a few companies are creating pigs with a series of gene edits that make their organs more acceptable to human bodies. A handful of living people have received gene-edited pig organs. David Bennett Sr was the first person to get a gene-edited pig heart in 2022, and Richard Slayman was the first to get a kidney in early 2024. But unfortunately both men died around two months after their surgery. But Tawana Looney, the third living person to receive a gene-edited pig kidney, has been doing well. She had her transplant surgery in late November of last year.
Speaker 1:Quote I'm full of energy. I've got an appetite I've never had in eight years. End quote. She said at the time Quote I can put my hand on this kidney and feel it buzzing. End quote.
Speaker 2:Oh, get it girl.
Speaker 1:She returned it buzzing, end quote. Oh, get it, girl. She returned home in february. At least one company is taking more of a body like approach. Renewal bio is a biotech company based in israel that hopes to grow embryo stage versions of people for replacement organs. Their approach is based on advances in the development of synthetic embryos, and synthetic embryosos is a term that a lot of scientists hate, but it's the best way for at least my lay person to understand what they're talking about.
Speaker 1:So embryos start with the union of an egg cell and a sperm cell, but scientists have been working on ways to make embryos using stem cells instead. So under the right conditions, these cells can divide into structures that look a lot like a typical embryo. Scientists don't know how far these embryo-like structures will be able to develop, but they've already been using them to try and get cows and monkeys pregnant. What the fuck? I know? Gotta start somewhere, right, oh God. No one really knows how to think about synthetic human embryos. Scientists don't even really know what to call them. How to think about synthetic human embryos? Scientists don't even really know what to call them. Rules stipulate that typical human embryos may be grown in the lab for a maximum of 14 days. Should the same rules apply to synthetic ones?
Speaker 1:Synthetic embryos made without eggs and sperm are looking increasingly like the real thing, raising thorny ethical questions, to say the least. The very existence of synthetic embryos is throwing into question our understanding of what a human embryo even is. Is it the thing that's only generated from the fusion of a sperm and an egg? Naomi Morris, a developmental biologist at the Crick Institute in London, asked Is it something to do with the cell type it possesses or the shape of the structure? The authors of the new MIT technology review piece also point out that such body oids could help speed scientific and medical research. At the moment, most drug research has to be conducted in lab animals before clinical trials can start, but non-human animals may not respond the same way people do, and the vast majority of treatments that look super promising in mice fail in humans. Such research can feel like a waste of both animal lives and time.
Speaker 1:Scientists have also been working on solutions to these problems. Some are creating organs on chips, which are miniature collections of cells organized on a small piece of polymer that may resemble full-size organs and can be used to test the effects of drugs. Others are creating digital representations of human organs for the same purpose. Such digital twins can be extensively modeled and potentially used to run clinical trials in silico. Both of these approaches seem somehow more palatable to me personally than running experiments on a human created without the capacity to think or feel pain. When it comes to real-world biotechnology, though, our feelings about what's acceptable tend to shift.
Speaker 1:In vitro fertilization was demonized when it was first developed, for instance, with opponents arguing that it was unnatural, a perilous insult and the biggest threat since the atom bomb. It's estimated that more than 12 million people have been born through IVF since Louise Brown became the first test tube baby 46 years ago. The announcement of the birth of Dolly the cloned sheep back in the 1990s launched a hysterical reaction complete with speculation about armies of cloned warrior slaves. Why do we hear about medical breakthroughs in mice but rarely see them translate into cures for human disease? Why do so few drugs at interclinical trials receive regulatory approval, and why is the waiting list for organ transplantation so long? These challenges stem in large part from a common root cause a severe shortage of ethically sourced human bodies. It may be disturbing to characterize human bodies in commodifying terms, but the unavoidable reality is that human biological materials are an essential commodity in medicine, and persistent shortage of these materials create a major bottleneck to progress. This imbalance between supply and demand is the underlying cause of the organ shortage crisis, with more than 100,000 patients currently waiting for a solid organ transplant in the US alone. It also forces us to rely heavily on animals in medical research, a practice that can't replicate major aspects of human physiology and makes it necessary to inflict harm on sentient creatures. In addition, the safety and efficacy of any experimental drug must still be confirmed in clinical trials on living human bodies. These costly trials risk harm to patients, can take a decade or longer to complete, and make it through to approval less than 15% of the time.
Speaker 1:Although it may seem like science fiction, recent technological progress has pushed this concept into the realm of plausibility. Pluripotent stem cells, one of the earliest cell types to form during development, can give rise to every type of cell in the adult body. Recently, researchers have used these stem cells to create structures that seem to mimic the early development of actual human embryos. At the same time, artificial uterus technology is rapidly advancing and other pathways may be opening to allow for the development of fetuses outside the body. Such technologies, together with established genetic techniques to inhibit brain development make it possible to envision the creation of bodyoids, a potentially unlimited source of human bodies developed entirely outside of a human body from stem cells that lack sentience or the ability to feel pain. Embryos made from stem cells rather than an egg and sperm appear to generate a short-lived pregnancy-like response. In monkeys, it could even be possible to generate organs directly from a patient's own cells, essentially cloning someone's biologic material to ensure that the transplanted tissues are a perfect immunological match and thus eliminating the need for lifelong immunosuppression. Bodyoids developed from a patient patient cells could also allow for personalized screening of drugs, allowing physicians to directly assess the effect of different interventions in a biological model that accurately reflects the patient's own personal genetics and physiology. We can even envision using animal botioids in agriculture as a substitute for the use of sentient animal species.
Speaker 1:Of course, possibilities are not certainties. We don't know whether the embryo models recently created from stem cells could give rise to living people or, thus far, even to living mice. We don't know when or whether an effective technique will be found for successfully gestating human bodies entirely outside a person, and we can't be sure whether such bodyoids can survive without ever having developed brains or the parts of brains associated with consciousness, or whether they would still serve as accurate models for living people without those brain functions. Even if it all works, it may not be practical or economical to grow bodyoids, possibly for many years, until they're mature enough to be useful for our purposes. Each of these questions requires substantial research and time. However, this idea is plausible enough to justify discussing the technical feasibility and the ethical implications before it's too late. Bodyoids could address many ethical problems in modern medicine, offering ways to avoid unnecessary pain and suffering. For example, they could offer a moral alternative to how we currently use non-human animals for research and food, providing meat or other products without animal suffering or awareness.
Speaker 1:But when we come to human bodyoids, issues become harder. Many find the concept grotesque and appalling, and for good reason. We have an innate respect for human life and all its forms. We don't allow broad research on people who no longer have consciousness or, in some cases, never had it. But at the same time, we know how much can be gained from studying the human body. We learn much from the bodies of the dead, which these days are used for teaching and research, with consent hopefully. In laboratories we study cells and tissues that were taken again, hopefully with consent from the bodies of the dead and living. Recently, scientists have even begun using experiments on animated cadavers of people who've been declared legally dead. They lost all brain function, but their other organs continue to function with mechanical assistance. Genetically modified pig kidneys have been connected to or transplanted into these legally dead but physiologically active cadavers to help researchers determine whether they would work in living people. In all these cases, nothing was legally a living human being at the time it was used for research.
Speaker 1:Human bodyoids would also fall into that category, but there's still a number of issues worth considering. The first is consent. The cells used to make bodyoids would have to come from someone, and we'd have to ensure that this someone consented to this particularly controversial use. And, however, perhaps the deepest issue is that bodyoids might diminish the human status of people who lack consciousness or sentience. Thus far, we've held to a standard that requires us to treat all humans born alive as people entitled to life and respect. Would bodyoids created without pregnancy, parental hopes or need parents blur that line? Or would we consider a bodyoid a human being entitled to the same respect, and if so, why? Just because it looks like us, a sufficiently detailed mannequin can meet that test because it looks like us and is alive, because it's alive and has our DNA. These are questions that will require careful thought.
Speaker 1:Until recently, the idea of making something like a bodyoid would have been relegated to the realms of science fiction and philosophical speculation, but now it's at least plausible and possibly revolutionary. The potential benefits for both human patients and sentient animal species are significant. There's no need to start with humans. We can start exploring the feasibility of this approach with rodents or other research animals, but as we proceed, the ethical and social issues are as important as the scientific ones. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. And even if it looks possible, determining whether we should make bodyoids non-human or human will require considerable thought, discussion and debate. Some will be by scientists and ethicists and others with special interests or knowledge, but ultimately the decisions will be made by societies and governments. So the time to start those discussions is now, when a scientific pathway seems clear enough for us to avoid pure speculation, but before the world is presented with a troubling surprise oh, that is so interesting.
Speaker 2:Um, thank you for thank you for sharing that. I never heard about body oids before and I feel I feel like I don't know how I feel about those. Really, yeah me either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean what my thought is. Why do you have to? Why do you have to make it a human? Why can't you just put them in those cute little orange and white things you talked about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, why can't they live in the organocs?
Speaker 1:Like grow one in there.
Speaker 2:There you go. Yeah, crazy Yikesies. I guess we'll see what comes of that in the coming years. I don't think that will be anything super quick. No.
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Speaker 1:So the sentencing sparked outrage from Chad, amelia's family and the prosecution. Senior Deputy District Attorney, audrey Neff-Ziger, argued that the lenient sentence set a dangerous precedent, stating it was the most heinous and violent involuntary manslaughter case that she'd encountered in nearly 30 years. The jury deliberated for less than four hours before finding Brynn Spacer guilty of involuntary manslaughter. Her team was disappointed because, going into the case, it was known that she was going in for either a guilty verdict of involuntary manslaughter or a non-guilty verdict. No one can test that she was unconscious and not able to control or have knowledge of her actions during the attack. Her defense team felt that Chad's chronic marijuana habits made him able to tolerate higher doses and that he knew she was a novice user. They charged him with criminal negligence.
Speaker 1:The defense claimed Brynn suffered involuntary intoxication due to the following and therefore should not be charged with manslaughter Number one she inhaled under duress. Number two fraud and deception were involved. Chad knew what was in the bong and Brynn did not. Number three Chad had a roommate who smoked out of that same bong previously and that person had a negative reaction as well. He had hallucinations and a feeling of dying. He ended up taking his clothes off and running outside for help. Chad did not tell Brynn about this. She stated under oath that she would not have partaken of the bong hit if she'd known about this. She stated under oath that she would not have partaken of the bong hit if she'd known. Brynn's defense team speculated that jurors felt they couldn't let Brynn off to the sheer number of stab wounds that she inflicted on Chad. Some jurors stated she should have been on notice when she noticed the bong had a milky substance.
Speaker 2:Okay, I mean, I guess, if you don't do that, a lot like Right.
Speaker 1:As a novice user, do you even know what that means?
Speaker 2:How would you know?
Speaker 1:So, as a reminder, for legal purposes, the definition of a psychotic state is the loss of ability to distinguish between delusion and hallucination and reality. Deputy's video footage from body cam showed Brynn's conduct Blood curdling screams, Brynn being tased four times while still stabbing herself, and then being beaten nine times with a metal baton. She was in an agitated psychotic state with superhuman strength. Jesus, you don't have to have predisposing conditions if the dose is strong enough. Phone texts revealed that he was ordering through illicit delivery services at strengths of 38.1% and that the weed came with a warning for high tolerance users. Only had Brynn known she wouldn't have taken a single hit, let alone two. So I looked at what are some cases of cannabis-induced psychosis in recent history and there were a few that came to light. One was in 2021, diego Costa Silva killed and decapitated his wife, fabiola De Campo Silva, believing she was possessed by a serpent. He had a history of daily cannabis use and was diagnosed with cannabis-induced psychosis. Two forensic psychiatrists testified that he was suffering from a persistent psychotic disorder, not just acute intoxication. In 2024, a jury found him not guilty by reason of insanity and he was committed to a psychiatric facility.
Speaker 1:In 2019, james Kilroy murdered his wife, valerie French Kilroy, by beating, stabbing and strangling her. He claimed to have been experiencing a cannabis-induced psychosis at the time. However, the jury rejected his insanity defense and in 2024, he was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment. In 2022, 22-year-old Hayden Kidd killed his grandmother, shirley Kidd, during a cannabis-induced psychotic episode. He mistook her for his abusive stepfather and attacked her with a matic. Not sure what that is, but it sounds with a matic. Not sure what that is, but it sounds like uh, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't either.
Speaker 1:Sticks with a ball with spikes on it. Um. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter and the judge acknowledged his low moral culpability. Due to his severe mental disorder, he was sentenced to five years in prison, with a judge urging parole authorities to release him with adequate support as soon as he becomes eligible in 2022 as well. Joshua jocks murdered his girlfriend, her mother, grandmother and the grandmother's partner in a drug-induced psychotic episode. He'd been using high-potency cannabis and claimed the murder's worst sacrifice. Despite his claims of mental illness, the jury found him guilty of murder and he was sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum term of 46 years.
Speaker 1:These cases illustrate the complexities of using cannabis induced psychosis. As a legal defense, outcomes have ranged from acquittal by reason of insanity to full convictions, depending on factors like the defendant's mental health history, expert testimony and the specifics of each case. Spacer is appealing her conviction, asserting that her intoxication was involuntary and resulted from Amelia pressuring her into consuming a large amount of marijuana. She claims that Amelia had a temper and could be physically aggressive, which made her too scared to refuse his request to smoke with him. Her defense team asserts that involuntary manslaughter must be reversed for insufficient evidence of criminal negligence, stating that an ordinarily careful person would not have known smoking two puffs of marijuana, a legal substance, could cause a psychotic break and violent hallucinations. They further posit that it was an error to exclude evidence that Chad had choked Brynn in the past. Evidence of his past violent conduct was relevant and material to prove that he pressured her to take the second puff and that intoxication was involuntary, which is a complete defense of involuntary manslaughter.
Speaker 1:The autopsy revealed 108 stab wounds to Amelia inflicted by four different knives. Amelia was stabbed in the trachea, carotid artery, jugular vein, heart, lung, liver, chest, back, shoulder and head, which caused death within minutes. He had marijuana in his system, but no synthetic drugs or alcohol. Stipulated that Amelia's blood test revealed the 11HD9 THC was 7.3 nanograms per milliliter and the D9 carboxy THC was 110 nanograms per milliliter and the D9 THC was 48 nanograms per milliliter. Blood samples were taken from Brynn on May 28, 2018 at 1.53 am. She had lacerations on her neck and hands. The video showed her stabbing herself in the neck, which was life-threatening, and she was impervious to pain.
Speaker 1:Chad Amelia had been studying to become an accountant. Friends described him as friendly, hard-working and optimistic. However, he had a temper and would sometimes become really angry. Chad routinely smoked marijuana throughout the day and ordered it from a delivery service. He smoked the biggest, the best, the strongest marijuana. Chad's cell phone texts revealed he was ordering marijuana through an illicit delivery service at a strength of 38.1%. Studies have shown that the psychoactive effects of THC can occur at 13% potency, regardless of a person's predisposition to a reaction.
Speaker 1:A few months earlier, chad's roommate, vinny Olviera, smoked a bong prepared by Chad which made him hallucinate. He described visual distortions and felt like he was dying. Vinny wanted to strip down naked and run outside to find someone to take him to the hospital. He blacked out. Dr Chris Mahandy, a board-certified forensic psychologist for the prosecution, agreed with Dr Fong that Brynn experienced a level four, the highest level, cannabis-induced psychotic break with hallucinations and major misperceptions of reality due to the cannabis which caused her to take a life and harm herself. Dr Mahandi concluded that Brynn killed Mr Amelia because of her distorted reality and in response to the command hallucinations. While in a state of marijuana-induced psychosis, she was stabbing herself in the neck, impervious to the pain, she heard voices saying to keep stabbing Chad. There was no evidence that Brynn lied about or exaggerated her symptoms. Vinny also had a psychotic reaction and newer marijuana users are more likely to freak out or have panic attacks.
Speaker 1:Testing revealed that marijuana was 4.1% delta-9-THC, a mid-level strength. With no other illicit substances this was testing in the bong. Other drugs burn off when smoked and some synthetic drugs are undetectable. Delta-9 THC is a psychoactive component of marijuana. Some marijuana is 31.8% THC. So the THC testing in this case was incomplete. It wasn't quantitatively tested. It's impossible to confirm that the substance tested that was left behind was what Bryn Spacer had actually smoked.
Speaker 1:Forensic scientist Scott Coley testified that THC produces a euphoric, relaxing feeling, but some individuals experience hallucinations, increased anxiety, paranoia and even psychosis. Thc affects inexperienced users more than habitual users who have a higher tolerance. Over time, thc is absorbed. The effect of marijuana is instant and peaks 10 to 30 minutes after use. At 1.53 am, when Bryn's blood was tested, it indicated recent marijuana use and no other substances and that she was an infrequent user.
Speaker 1:Dr William Wershing, a UCLA psychiatrist, watched the deputy body cam video and concluded Brynn was in a severe marijuana-induced psychotic state when she stabbed Chad and herself. The positive effects of cannabis use include anti-inflammation, seizure suppression, mood stabilization and anxiolysis, which you know, pain relief. However, as cannabis decreases and THC increases, the drug becomes more potent with a stronger high and is more psychotoxic. Wax a distillation of marijuana, results in a more potent 30 to 75% THC and produces a more intoxicating effect. Wax residue was discovered at the bottom of Chad's bong. Dr Wershing has observed people in psychosis cutting off their genitalia, pulling their eyes out and trying to remove their internal organs.
Speaker 1:Dr Buffington, a pharmacologist and toxicologist, testified that marijuana potency can be as high as 85% plus. Chad ordered 31.8% OG Cush a few days earlier, which was a substantially high potency, much higher than 4.1%. And when 31.8% marijuana is put in a bong with oil or wax, the marijuana is taken to a different level. Stacking hits are when more doses are added, which makes the bong milky white, increasing potency At lower potencies. Marijuana produces euphorian relaxation, as we talked about, but as potency rises it can cause psychosis, hallucinations and delusions, and this potency is too much for the brain.
Speaker 1:So again, the marijuana scrapings from the bong were 4.1% THC, but the unburned raw material was what needed to be tested for an accurate reading and obviously that could not be performed because it was gone. So testing a burnt material doesn't accurately reflect its potency. Other drugs may have been burned off before the burnt material was tested, since only trace amounts were left in the bowl. So Dr Mahandy opined that the THC that Bryn was given was more potent than the 4.1% found at the scene. Based on her extreme reaction, bryn and Chad's blood tested positive for THC. Chad's THC level was 48 nanograms per milliliter, which indicated recent use at a high level, taken within an hour. Bryn's THC level was 13.7, which was substantially lower and was taken in the last hour. Green Air, the delivery service that Chad used, is not regulated like pharmaceutical companies, so you don't know what you're getting. And it was even worse in 2018.
Speaker 1:There was a warning that the 31.8% marijuana was only for high tolerance users and Bryn Spacer was a naive, infrequent marijuana user. So, again, dr Bruffington stated that the body cam showed that Brynn was in a cannabis-induced psychosis physically present, but not cognitively present. She was awake, she was moving, but she was non-responsive to communication with others. She was stabbing herself and Chad. She was not responsive to pain. Eight officers tased her multiple times, hit her with a baton and she just was not present in the room with them. Her multiple times hit her with a baton and she just was not present in the room with them.
Speaker 1:Chad, they maintained, was aware of what would happen to someone exposed to a high-potency substance because he similarly prepared the marijuana for Vinny, his roommate, and saw his reaction. So Dr Buffington opined that Chad loaded a high-potency marijuana into the bong, stacked the hits to maximize the intensity, andency marijuana into the bong, stacked the hits to maximize the intensity and delivered it through the bong, which administers it rapidly to an inexperienced user. Based on his training in pharmacology and toxicology, one would not expect that taking two hits from marijuana would cause the reaction, because two hits from standard marijuana would not cause someone to kill and inflict extreme self-harm. Someone who's not a routine user would not have the experience to know. A routine user would not have the experience to know the warnings and would not have seen adverse reactions to themselves or others.
Speaker 1:Dr Jean Lampert, a licensed marriage and family therapist, treated Brynn for PTSD, intense emotional distress, flashbacks, guilt and shame. Devin Johnson, a teacher and longtime friend of Brynn, testified she was honest and never violent. Spacer testified at trial. At the time of the incident she was working for UCLA as an audiologist, diagnosing patients' hearing loss and fitting them with hearing aids. Brynn has been deaf since childhood. She had a cochlear implant and reads lips. Her family and friends described her as friendly and never violent. She loved her dog, aria, a Siberian husky, and would never have hurt her intentionally. Aria survived the incident, thankfully.
Speaker 1:And I was just thinking if she had a cochlear implant that means that, if you know, it's held on by a magnet and if she's thrashing around on the floor in a state of psychosis, I wonder if her processor was even on her head. So that's just one more layer to this is that she was in a state of psychosis. I wonder if her processor was even on her head. So that's just one more layer to this is that she was in a state of psychosis and death. She couldn't hear the officers around her or people talking to her. Um, it was all. I just think it probably further, uh, enhanced or heightened her, her little bubble psychosis, if you will, right, because there was nothing breaking through. She couldn't hear, right, yeah, what was happening and she was having visual For sure.
Speaker 1:No one said that. But I mean she has a cochlear implant. Chances are she didn't hear anything without it and they fall off fairly easily if you jump up and down hard enough. So she's rolling around on the floor um stabbing herself in the neck yeah that thing might fall off.
Speaker 2:So that was just another layer that occurred to me, but anyways, you should have been an expert person to provide medical information, in this case forensic audiologist.
Speaker 1:Um, no, too stressful, um, but anyway, this. This case brought attention to the phenomenon of cannabis induced psychosis, particularly about high potency marijuana products. It was definitely eye-opening for me because I I think of marijuana is like, like I said, the cheech and chong chill sort of factor you can't overdose on it.
Speaker 1:So where was I? Experts noted an increase in cases of psychosis following the legalization of recreational cannabis in California. Dr Mahandy highlighted the growing number of violent incidents linked to cannabis-induced psychosis. Also, the incident underscored the need for clearer regulations and warnings regarding the potential mental health risks associated with high THC cannabis products. For sure, advocates called for a stricter oversight in public education to prevent similar tragedies. In interviews, including the appearance on the Dr Phil podcast, spacer expressed remorse for her actions and emphasized the dangers of marijuana-induced psychosis. She's since engaged in efforts to educate the public about the potential risk of cannabis consumption, particularly concerning mental health.
Speaker 1:Chad's father expressed disappointment over the verdict and the appeal. He shared that at Chad's vigil, a friend of Chad's told him that if Chad was there, she knew she was safe. He shared that Chad had the utmost respect for women and the elderly and that over 1,300 people attended his funeral. He described his son as loving and caring and that he was a good listener. He stated that Brynn never told him that she was sorry for what happened, but that Brynn's father had looked him in the eye in court and apologized, and he respected that. He stated that the jury did not do their job, nor did the judge, and that there was no conclusive evidence that there was high-potency marijuana in the bong. He stated that the case displayed evidence on how broken the justice system is. So the case of Bryn Spacer serves as a complex example of the intersection between mental health, substance use and the legal system. It highlights the challenges in addressing crimes committed under altered mental states and raises important questions about personal responsibility, legal accountability and public health education.
Speaker 2:Holy guacamole. I just learned so much about cannabis tonight. I too was in the camp of my understanding. Was it's like chill, relaxing? I mean, I've heard before like people say oh, I don't like smoking because I feel like um, anxious or paranoid, but I have not heard of people going into psychosis, right it's, that's scary especially, especially if I'm imagining there's synthetic materials or they're there.
Speaker 1:They figured out ways to deliver higher levels of THC per dose now. So it's not just like lighten up a weed that you pluck from your back garden, it's, it's a, it's a drug and uh scary that it's legal in so many places, and including Minnesota and um, that there are websites that are delivering uh, with just a little mild warning, something as potent as what Chad was buying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy and I did not know the link of um like susceptibility to getting like schizophrenia If you're a user. Yeah, I didn't know any of that either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I've heard about what's that. There's a drug, it's not peyote. There's a drug that people go off to like a camp to do, to like get spiritual enlightenment. But there's a risk. What is that called? Listeners probably shouting it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry guys, I've got nothing.
Speaker 1:Um but um. There's a risk of permanent, permanent psychosis, like permanent hallucinations and whatever Like why even with a one right? Even with a 1% chance like why would you even put yourself in that?
Speaker 2:I'm like, take me to a winery. I can be Zen there.
Speaker 1:I'm like take me to a winery, I can be Zen there, right? Oh my goodness, so scary, you know. And kids are growing up with this being legal, so we've got to teach our kids as well, like yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's. That's a horrible case. That's a that's a tough one because it's at the end of the day, you did kill somebody, yeah, but I guess you didn't know you were doing it. I mean, that's kind of the same case as, like, the drunk driver that kills somebody, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, should they be responsible?
Speaker 2:Maybe not the same as like the psychosis factor, but if you're completely inebriated and you don't know what's happening happening.
Speaker 1:So, even though her sentence was no jail time, the reason that she's appealing and I think what came across to me, at least from watching the stuff and reading the articles was, um, you know, it was still a felony and so she can't practice audiology, she has lost her license, um, so you know, if she's been found to be not culpable, then why does she have to give up her entire career? Whether you agree with it or not, you know, yeah for sure. And then I think it was Dr Phil who raised this question. You know there are instances of postpartum psychosis where that's also something that's not conscious on the part of the person who's undergoing the psychosis, and those women have not been treated similarly. They've been locked up and institutionalized.
Speaker 1:And how fair is that? And I don't know, it's just. I think it comes down to she unknowingly. You know he knew more than she did about what was he was giving her and you know I doubt he gave it to her. Well, obviously he wouldn't have given her something like yeah, you're gonna go, you know, go into psychosis and kill me. But at the same time he was, he was not being transparent in what he was doing. He was was like oh, I'll show you. You know that kind of macho.
Speaker 2:Just do it.
Speaker 1:Come on. Oh, you say you don't feel high. Well, I'll show you what high is. I don't think it was malicious. Yeah, probably, but at the same time it still wasn't transparent and yeah, I don't know how I feel about her sentence. But if, like I said, if she's found culpable, then she needs her life back and good for her for doing community service on educating the public on this issue that I was not aware of. Honestly, I came into this kind of blasé like, ooh, there's an audiologist who killed somebody. You know 108 stabs. Ooh, you know what a cow, but you know what a what a cow. But um, yeah, it's a little deeper than that.
Speaker 2:So it's a thinker, it is a thinker, that's a thinker. Well, great job on your research. Thank you again, samantha, for telling her to cover this case. Yeah, thanks, sam, you left us with some food for thought, that's right. Sorry, I just had to get this yawn out of my mouth.
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Speaker 2:I mean, really, you can't beat that, you can't, you cannot. But before we move into what you're going to hear about, next week we've got a medical mishap and this tale is from Marianne and she writes Hello ladies, hi, marianne. She writes hello, ladies, hi, marianne, hi. First of all, thank you for creating this podcast. I am a longtime true crime fanatic and just so happen to also work in the medical field. Oh, you are welcome. That is why Jenna dreamed this up, I think.
Speaker 2:Also longtime true crime lover, yeah, and she's wanted to do a podcast for years and years and years. So here we are. Thank you for joining us, marianne, okay. So she writes this was a oh, oh, I'm so sorry I cut her off. So she says this was a no-brainer that I would find my way to your space. Welcome, happy to have you here. Um, I look forward to wednesdays to see what you two have come up with.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure that this fits into the mold of a medical mishap, but more of a mistake with a chart note. That was a running note. Nope, is a running joke in their office for a very long time, so I thought I would share, hoping it brings a laugh to someone. Many years ago, one of our doctors was dictating a radiology report saying there is evidence of infiltrates in the lungs consistent with PTB, so pulmonary tuberculosis. But the transcriptionist, unfamiliar with the abbreviation, interpreted it phonetically and typed there is evidence of infiltrates in the lungs consistent with pizza TB. Yes, according to the official chart, the patient's lungs looked like they had pizza tuberculosis. The report was flagged during rounds and the team of course laughed. The phrase pizza TB stuck around as a running joke whenever someone dictated a report too quickly. Hope this will bring you all a laugh. Best, marianne, oh my gosh, I love that.
Speaker 1:It's like little pieces of pepperoni in the lung.
Speaker 2:Maybe that was my thought is funny. Back when you guys used to use your transcriptionist, I was working in the department and I would try to proofread them for you guys, because you guys didn't have time to do that kind of stuff. And yeah, and bless every transcriptionist heart, right, because if you don't work in that practice or that specialty or whatever, you don't know. And so in our realm of audiology I know it was always written oral, like we do, oral A-U-R-A-L, but it was always written oral like the mouth, o-r-a-l, so that always had to be changed. That's not as funny, as it's actually not funny at all, but pizza tb is funny.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, so my favorite was always, like you know, they had difficulty hearing in public, but they'd write.
Speaker 2:They had difficulty hearing in pubic oh my gosh, I'm just like okay that one think about it. That's so funny.
Speaker 1:Oh, good ones. I mean, we could probably do a whole episode on transcription mistakes.
Speaker 2:Seriously, I bet there's some real doozies out there.
Speaker 1:Well, that was a nice cheery way to end this episode. We've gone a little bit over, but listen next week. What are we going to hear about Amanda?
Speaker 2:We are going to tap into the old dentistry land. Yeah, we haven't been there yet, yeah, so I'm excited to hop over there, and we'll just call it a cram of passion, passion passion dentistry oh la la, we'll just call it a crime of passion Oof.
Speaker 2:Passion, la passion, passion. That's a three. Oh yeah, ooh la la, ooh la la. You know, but until then, don't miss a beat. Subscribe or follow Doctrine the Truth wherever you enjoy your podcasts for stories that shock, intrigue and educate. Trust, after all, is a delicate thing. You can text us directly on our website at doctoringthetruth, at buzzsproutcom, email us your own story ideas, medical mishaps and comments at doctoringthetruth, at gmail. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at doctoringthetruthpodcast. We're on Facebook at doctoringthetruth and TikTok at Doctoring the Truth, as well as Edodpod, e-d-a-u-d-p-o-d. Don't forget to download, rate and review so we can be sure to bring you more content next week and until then, stay safe and stay suspicious. I really drew that out because I was like you coming in girl. Come on, alliecat, let's go, okay, bye.
