Ep 50-Stem Cell Scams and Our Anniversary!

Hope is powerful—but in the wrong hands, it becomes a sales tactic. We’re celebrating one year together by pulling back the curtain on stem cell scams: how slick marketing borrows the language of science, why “FDA registered” is not the same as FDA approved, and where vulnerable patients get hurt most—from cash-only clinics to medical tourism that ends in sepsis or even blindness.

Why do smart people fall for this? Because these schemes weaponize urgency, testimonials, and the feeling of being unseen by the system. We offer practical safeguards you can use now: how to check the FDA’s cellular therapy approvals, verify studies on clinicaltrials.gov, and spot red flags like guaranteed results, one-size-fits-all claims, and large upfront cash demands. We also share a quick “chart note” on AI’s push into health features and a wry listener mishap that reminds us how fragile trust can be when a single sensor sticker slips.

If a treatment were truly safe and effective, it wouldn’t need a passport, a waiver, or a seminar. It would have data. Subscribe to stay sharp on medical myths, share this with someone considering a “regenerative” fix, and leave a review to help more listeners find candid, evidence-first conversations.

Transcript

Anniversary Banter And Milestones

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Amanda.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Jenna. That was weird. I wasn't planning that.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

That's almost a little creepy. Jonah! There we go. How are you doing, girlfriend?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

How are you? Good in the hood. Although I've had a lot of listeners reach out, and and we're not a political podcast, so I'm not gonna get into it, but I just want to acknowledge that people are worried about us because we are in Minnesota and it's January and there's some stuff happening here. So I just want to say thank you for your concern. And like anyone, I would just ask people to pray to their higher power, wherever that might be, for peace and de-escalation, and accountability and safety for everyone, all humans. So okay. So, however, this is a very special episode. Do you want to tell the listeners why? It's our anniversary.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

It's our anniversary. Can you believe it? It's been one year almost. How come you're not taking me out for dinner?

Year In Review And Top Episodes

SPEAKER_00 2:02

I know you are about to pop. So that's why. But um oh okay. Also, I'm way too far north, but we should, you know, we should make a dinner date. Face time dinner date. Face time dinner date. So we have been at it for a year. Our first episode was published January 28th, and I think this one comes out the 23rd. So close enough for comfort. So in that time, we will have published 550 episodes, which is a total of 3,027 minutes of you and I talking, Amanda. How does that feel? What an accomplishment. Holy smokes. Who the hell would want to listen to all that?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I'm like, I'm like, I wonder what the actual stat of how much we talk is, because we talk obviously outside of this podcast too.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

So we talk a lot. So I just wanted a little year in review. Our first year. In our first year, we had engagement from 598 cities and 43 different countries across the planet. Yeah. So before we started recording, I oh, also hold on. Our most popular episode was the first episode, the murder of Brian Stidam, the ophthalmologist. And then followed by closely by the second one, was which was episode five, which was Amanda's episode about Michael Swango, Medicine's Nightmare. So there was a lot of interest in that one. But I reached out to Amanda and I said, What's what's your favorite episode? And we both chose chose the same one, which is episode 20. And the title is A Self-Taught YouTube Doctor and Sociopath in a trashy trailer, the story of Rick Van Thiel. So we both agreed on that, which you know I didn't tell her ahead of time. So if you want to go back to our archives and have a listen, so if it's a we're in good time. So go back and listen to episode 20. Second favorite between the two of us. We also agreed on the second one. I mean, we're on the same page. Episode four, entitled Goodness Gracious, Great Balls and Flyer, An Insane Story of Quackery. So that would be a good one to go back and listen to as well. And then I asked Amanda what her all-time favorite medical mishap was. And again, we both agreed without getting together ahead of time. And that is her hubby Adam's story of his issues after having been burned in some sort of area. So you can find that medical mishap, which is the all-time favorite among many of our listeners, in episode eight, entitled The Alpine Manor Murders, a healthcare horror story, part two. So I encourage our listeners to go back and revisit some of that. But what do you think is in store for us in the next year? I mean, 50 episodes. We only took two weeks off. What the heck? I know. We're a machine. Yeah, I know.

Season Two Vision And Plans

SPEAKER_01 5:27

I don't know. I feel like I feel like we're gonna be adding more in like the informative medical area. You know what I mean? Like you had your mercury and makeup episodes.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

So it's more of a season two feeling, like not just true crime, but also things to be aware of in healthcare that can have two, which may or may not be a crime, but maybe should be a crime. So um, you know, just informing the public about, you know, things to look for.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

A nice palette cleanser for us, too, to do that, I think, because it gets a little depressing reading about serial killers all the time.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Exactly. Exactly. So season two promises bright future. I think we also might be working on Patreon. We need to get you guys some bonus content. So that might be ahead, and we might have some special guests and things coming up to look forward to. So yeah, 2026 is looking bright, looking bright. I'm excited. And my dream is merch because we have a friend with a cricket, and she did some amazing merch just for us. I don't know. We need to hire her maybe. Wouldn't it be great if we had some doctoring the truth merch out there? So I know, stay tuned, listeners. Some fun stuff is is coming up. Do we have any corrections for last week?

SPEAKER_01 6:56

I'm gonna be real honest. I'm so pregnant, I don't have a brain anymore, so I don't know. I don't, I'm like, what was our last episode?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah, I'm gonna be honest by proxy and just say, we're kind of doing stuff, we're banking stuff to have a little extra something ahead of time for when baby Dr. House comes into the world. Yeah. So we're it's kind of that's our first time actually banking episodes, and so it's getting a little confusing. Um like what was but I don't remember having glaring questions. It was your mind.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

I don't even remember what it was. Wow, it must be really great. I can't even remember what it was.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

I must have pregnancy by proxy. It was about the wasn't it about the girl who came from for her heart?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

I thought that one already is no, that one's already been published. Oh hang on, let me let me just go into our computer description. Oh, Dr. Zorro. Oh, Dr.

Sponsors And Eco Upcycling Spotlight

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Zorro. Okay, yeah. How can we forget Dr. Zoro? No, yeah, that's a great episode. So yeah, no corrections there. Our first sponsor is Terrain at T-O-R-R-A-I-N.org, who offers a unique collection of backpacks, totes, wallets, and travel gear designed for explorers and adventurers who prioritize sustainability. Crafted from upcycled materials like feed and rice bags, sourced globally. Terrain products are eco-friendly, durable, lightweight, and water resistant. And I know it sounds weird, like why would I buy a feed bag? But I will tell you what I said last week, which is when I lived in Southeast Asia, those rice bags, they're colorful, they're strong. I don't know what they make those things out of, but it's like definitely durable. Like you could put several gallons of milk in one of those things and it wouldn't burst in those tote bags. And they're so pretty and interesting. And so they use these products to create everyday things that we need, which is not only fantastic, but you know, it's eco-conscious. So that's just and and their design with active lifestyle in mind. The company was founded by Nyla, who's a formal former apparel designer. And she also was visiting the Southeast Asia where I lived, and she, you know, became overwhelmed with a desire to reduce waste and empower the artisans in the community. So she discovered that the potential of discarded feed bags was immense. So she partnered with Cambodian artists to upcycle them into functional stylus accessories. Every item's handcrafted, supports fair trade, and ensures high quality. Terrain bags also feature interiors lined with recycled plastic bottles, which by the way, I mean, I love my reset recycled plastic bottle shoes, which aren't by terrain, by another company that doesn't need they don't, they don't they don't support our show. So I don't know, so we're not gonna mention that um, but it's amazing what you can do with these plastics that otherwise would just clutter our ocean and kill our fish.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

I will also mention that I previously wore a lot of athletic gear from a different company who also doesn't sponsor us, so lol. But they the stuff that was made out of recycled plastics on their line were like the comfiest. I'm like, how is this recycled plastics? That's so comfy. You can throw it in the wash. You can throw it in the washing machine, and it's totally fine.

Stem Cells 101: Promise And Peril

The Scam Playbook And Red Flags

Amniotic Products And Iowa Case

SPEAKER_00 10:43

And yeah, absolutely durable. So terrain has become a favorite amongst travelers, adventurers, and eco-conscious individuals. And guess what, listeners? You can get 15% off if you use our promo code STAYSUSPicious at terrain.org. All right, so today we're going to be talking about stem cell scams. And I don't have trigger warnings, but I do have a disclaimer. This episode discusses unapproved medical treatments. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Always consult a licensed, qualified medical professional and verify your treatments through FDA and clinical trial registries. My primary resources were obtained from Consumer Health Digest issue 25 through 52, which can be found on a fantastic website that I just discovered called QuackWatch.org. Consumer Health Digest is a free weekly email newsletter edited by William Matthew London, who's a doctor of education and a master's of public health, with help from Dr. Stephen Barrett. It also summarizes scientific reports, legislative developments, enforcement actions, and other news items. So have a look at that website, and the rest of my resources will be located in the show notes. Before we talk about stem cell scams, let's talk about what's a stem cell. A stem cell is a type of cell with two defining abilities. First, it can self-renew, it can divide and make more stem cells, sometimes for the entire life of an organism. And number two, differentiation. It can develop into other more specialized cell types like blood cells, muscle cells, or nerve cells when given the right biological signals to do so. So, in simple terms, stem cells are the body's raw materials capable of becoming the cells that build, maintain, and repair tissues. Not all stem cells are the same, but broadly they include embryonic stem cells, which can be almost any cell type, and adult somatic stem cells, which are more limited and usually repair specific tissues like blood or skin, and then induced cleropotent stem cells, which are adult cells that are reprogrammed back into a stem-like state. The medical community's interest in stem cells grew out of a very practical observation. Some tissues naturally regenerate themselves. For decades, doctors had known that blood can be replenished after chemotherapy, skin heals after an injury, and the liver can partially regenerate itself. In the 1950s to 1960s, researchers discovered that bone marrow contains stem cells responsible for continuously making new blood and immune cells. This led directly to bone marrow transplantation at one of the first and still most successful stem cell therapies. That success changed everything. It suggested that if scientists could understand how some stem cells decide what to become, control their growth and specialization, and then safely deliver them to damaged tissue, medicine might be able to replace cells destroyed by disease or injury, repair organs that normally do not heal well, and treat conditions at the cellular level rather than just managing the symptoms with a band-aid. This interest in some cells represented a shift from supportive care to regenerative medicine. Instead of asking, how do we help the body cope with damage? researchers began asking, can we replace or regenerate what's been lost? This was especially compelling for diseases where cells are permanently damaged or lost, like Parkinson's disease, which is a loss of dopamine-producing neurons or spinal cord injuries, damaged hearts after cardiac arrest, blood cancers, and immune disorders. However, the same properties that make stem cells promising also make them dangerous. As I mentioned, stem cells divide rapidly. They respond strongly to biological signals, and they can become multiple cell types. But on the flip side, this means they can grow uncontrollably, differentiate incorrectly, and form tumors and trigger immune reactions. That's why legitimate stem cell research has always emphasized slow progress, strict controls, and long clinical trials. And that's why shortcuts are very dangerous. Stem cells became one of the most exciting areas of modern medicine because they offered a scientifically plausible way to regenerate human tissue. But that excitement, combined with public misunderstanding, also made stem cells uniquely vulnerable to hype, exaggeration, and fraud. If you search the internet long enough, you can find a cure for almost anything. Autism, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, spinal cord injuries, aging itself, as we talked about recently on our Don't Die episode about Brian Johnson. All you need are stem cells. All you need is luck. All you need is stem cells. All you need is stem cells. They're marketed as regenerative, cutting edge, and revolutionary. Clinic websites show you lab coats, microscopes, and scientific diagrams. They promise repair, renewal, healing. And the promotional ads always say the same thing. Well, if there's even a chance this could help, why wouldn't you why wouldn't you try it? But here's the truth: most of these treatments don't work, many of them aren't legal, and some of them have permanently blinded, injured, or killed patients. So here's the part that often gets left out of marketing. As of today, the FDA has approved only a very small number of stem cell therapies. Therapies include bone marrow or hematopoietic stem cell transplants, treatment of blood cancers like leukemia and lymphoma, and treatment of rare and specific immune disorders such as severe combined immunodeficiency, SCID, which is sometimes called the bubble boy syndrome for those of you who watch Seinfeld. But that's it. There's no FDA-approved stem cell treatments for autism, Alzheimer's, ALS, Parkinson's, stroke recovery, CLPD, chronic pain, or anti-aging. And if you hear a clinic claiming ever otherwise, that's your first red flag. Real stem cell research is slow, expensive, tightly regulated, and cautious because manipulating cells that can divide and transform carries real risk. This is the story of stem cell scams, how real science was hijacked, how desperation became a business model, and how hope itself became a weapon. Almost every stem cell scan follows the same playbook. Once you know what to look for, the pattern is impossible to miss. First, find desperate patients. Parents of disabled children, people with degenerative neurological diseases, patients with chronic pain who've been told there's nothing more that medicine can do for them. Second, wrap the pitch in science-sounding language. Regenerative, cell signaling, biologic repair, not drugs, your body healing itself, and so on. Third, avoid insurance and regulators. So these clinics are almost always cash only, and treatments range from$5,000 to$50,000 and sometimes more. Fourth, hide behind legal technicalities. Places will say they're FDA registered. Well, this doesn't mean they're FDA approved. It just means registration, which means the building is there. And fifth, use testimonials instead of data. So they'll show videos, before and after photos, emotional stories, but never peer-reviewed evidence. And finally, they need a sense of urgency. Make it urgent. The earlier treatment works better. Stem cells decline with age. Don't miss your window of opportunity. So to encapsulate all the above, hope is the product, and fear is the sales pressure. The most common scams involving stem cells are typically one of the following. Scam number one, amniotic and umbilical cord stem cells. These are some of the most profitable products on the market. Clinics advertise injections made from donated amniotic fluid or umbilical cord tissue. They claim that these products contain powerful live stem cells capable of regenerating damaged tissue. Independent testing has repeatedly shown that many of these products contain zero living stem cells. None. Nada kaput. Patients are often injected with dead tissue, diluted biologic material, right, or saline at an enormous cost to them. But the marketing works because the word stem cell is never regulated in advertising the way drugs are. In a 30-page ruling on judgment, an Iowa district court found Travis Broughton and his Omaha-based stem cell companies, Omaha Stem Cells LLC and Regenerative Medicine and Anti-Aging Institute of Omaha LLC, tricked vulnerable people from Iowa searching for relief from their ailments by marketing and selling them unproven umbilical cord stem cell injections. The court permanently prohibited Mr. Broughton and his companies from engaging in the same conduct in Iowa again and found the defendants liable for fully reimbursing 76 Iowans who received injections, which was in an amount that equaled 800. And$10,000 and$477, and the maximum penalty of$40,000 for all violations of the Iowa Consumer Fraud Act, which totaled 160,000.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Pretty rude that he targeted Iowa. I mean, seriously, those corn fed folks are so innocent and they're like, we're the corn huskers. We're gonna target Iowa.

Fat-Derived Injections And Florida Blindness

SPEAKER_00 21:12

The state of Iowa's lawsuit accused the defendants of deceptively promoting the umbilical cord stem cell treatments as regenerative medicine cures for a range of health disorders, including CLPD, joint pain, Alzheimer's, and aging, and specifically targeting older Iowans and using testimonial videos to mislead Iowans in sales seminars that touted the effectiveness of the treatments. Second scan, fat-derived stem cell clinics. This one is especially dangerous. Clinics extract fat from the patient, often by a liposuction, process it quickly, and then reinject it into joints, spines, or even eyes. They claim a loophole called the same surgical procedure exemption. The FDA has repeatedly stated that this loophole does not apply. When stem cell clinics say they're operating under something called the same surgical procedure exemption, they're referring to a narrow FDA rule that was never designed to apply to stem cell treatments, but is frequently used as a legal-sounding justification. The exemption allows a doctor to remove tissue from a patient and implant that same tissue back into the same patient during the same surgical procedure without the tissue being regulated as a drug. So this exists for routine, well-understood medical practices like skin grafts, bone grafts, or vein grafts, where the tissue is minimally altered and used for the same basic function that it served in the body before it was removed. But stem cell clinics claim this exemption applies when they remove fat or bone marrow from a patient, process it, and then reinject it later the same day. By framing the procedure this way, they argue that the material is not a regulated drug, that FDA approval isn't required, and federal oversight doesn't apply. So to patients, this can sound reassuring, technical, and legitimate, but the problem is that this interpretation doesn't hold up under any regulatory legal scrutiny. In most of these clinics, the tissue is more than minimally manipulated. Fat or bone marrow is often enzymatically processed, concentrated, or altered to isolate specific cell populations. And once that level of processing occurs, the exemption no longer applies. There's also the issue of function. Fat tissue's normal role in the body is energy storage and cushioning. Injecting processed fat-derived material into joints, spines, eyes, or neurological tissue is not considered the same basic function under FDA rules. Using tissue in a new location for a new purpose changes its risk profile, which is exactly why regulation exists. The FDA has repeatedly stated that these types of stem cell procedures do not qualify for the same surgical procedure exemption and should instead be regulated as biological drugs. Courts have consistently upheld that position, but despite this, clinics continue to invoke the exemption because it sounds authoritative. Enforcement has historically been low or slow, and many patients assume that a technical regulatory reference means the treatment's legal and approved. In practice, the same surgical procedure exemption has become less of a legitimate legal protection and more of a marketing phrase, used to give patients a false sense of safety around procedures that remain unapproved, unproven, and potentially dangerous. These procedures have been linked to serious infections, spinal tumors, pulmonary embolisms, and permanent blindness. Which brings us to one of the most infamous cases. In 2015, three elderly women, all seeking help for age-related macular degeneration, paid about$5,000 each to receive an unproven stem cell treatment at a for-profit clinic in Sunrise, Florida. They were told that the injections might help slow or even reverse their vision loss. And so the clinic took fat from the women's abdomens, processed it to extract what they called stem cells, mixed it with platelet-rich plasma, and injected it into both eyes of each patient. This approach was not based on tested science or any established procedure. Within days, all three women suffered severe complications, including detached retinas, hemorrhages inside the eye, and dramatic vision loss. One woman became completely blind, and the other two were left legally blind, which was a far worse outcome than the gradual vision decline typical of macular degeneration in the first place. Doctors later reported these injuries in the New England Journal of Medicine as a vivid example of the risks posed by unproven stem cell treatments offered outside proper clinical research settings. This case didn't lead to a high-profile criminal prosecution of the individual providers, but regulatory action did follow. In 2018 to 19, the US FDA stepped in against the company behind the clinic, which is the U.S. Stem Cell Inc. Incorporated, that had been offering those unproven products. And then in July 2019, a federal court granted the FDA's request for a permanent injunction preventing the company and certain employees from manufacturing or distributing the adipose-derived stem cell products involved in eye injections because they were being marketed and distributed in violation of federal law. The court order stopped the company from selling these specific products and was intended to send a message to other stem cell clinics operating outside regulatory oversight. There's no, I looked, but there's no public record of criminal charges being filed specifically as a result of this case, unfortunately. At least two of the women, though, filed civil lawsuits against the clinic and associated individuals after the stem cell treatments blinded them, as they should have filed. Those lawsuits were later settled, and so those terms were kept confidential under NDAs. So we don't know about the specific settlement amounts, and the details are not publicly available, but I hope it was hefty. I mean I hope so. Yeah. So this case is one of the most widely cited examples of the dangers of unprove unproven stem cell therapies, especially when marketed directly to patients outside of regulated clinical trials. It illustrates several key issues. First of all, inadequate oversight and enforcement of stem cell clinics operating in gray regulatory areas, misleading advertising, including listings on government trial registries that give patients a false impression of legitimacy. And then there's, you know, severe permanent harm resulting from those procedures because they lacked any scientifically established safety profile. So there's that. Well, we're gonna take a break for a moment and look at our no.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Which I feel like started out as more of a chant and then turned into tunes. And I'm telling you guys we sing like Alley Cats. So for this anniversary episode, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

No, no, no, no. Oh no, we should be doing chart, chart, no, no, no, no, no. The tune of uh he's a jolly fellow. Chart, chart, chart note, chart, chart, note because it's nears. Oh, okay. I can cut that out. We were doing jingle bells chart notes for a while.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

At least I thought I was. I don't know. Yeah, but jolly, yeah, but jolly good fellow. That's New Year's. It is, isn't it? I didn't know that. I don't know. Oh, is that just a me thing? Oh my I've never heard that before.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Okay, yeah. I don't uh I guess I'm gonna go. Okay, yeah, you're gonna look it up. We go correction section on that on that puppy next week. All right. Anyway, welcome to the chart note where we learn about what's actually sung in New Year's and what's happening in medicine and healthcare. So, according to an article I found published on January 7th, 2026, on the website modernhealthcare.com by author Sheeran Gafari from Bloomberg, OpenAI is introducing a new feature in Chat GPT that will allow users to analyze medical test results, prepare for doctors' appointments, and seek guidance on diets and workout routines, marking the company's biggest push yet into the healthcare sector. ChatGPT Health, announced Wednesday, is attended to help is intended to help provide useful health and fitness information, but stop short of making formal diagnoses. The new feature can connect with people's electronic medical records, wearable devices, and wellness apps like Apple Health and MyFitnessPal, the company said. Initially, OpenAI will let users sign up for a wait list to try out the product, and then the company plans to expand access more widely in the coming weeks. A growing number of tech firms are targeting the lucrative healthcare market, betting that advances in AI can help parse patterns in users' health data to provide individualized medical recommendations. But those moves also raise concerns about the privacy and safety risks of AI services, handling more sensitive personal data, and offering suggestions for higher stakes health matters. More than 200 million people already ask Chat GPT health and wellness questions every week.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Wow.

Enforcement Gaps And Utah Felony Case

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Wow. Yeah. Every week. A week. At something like 40 million people a day. Oh gosh. Yeah. So it's already being done. So they're like, well, let's harness this into a more safer environment. And I mean, not that they're, you know, not going to want to profit off of it as well, but OpenAI said it's also consulted with more than 260 physicians over two years in refining its AI technologies' health capabilities. I'm sorry, but 260 physicians doesn't sound like enough physicians to weigh in about 200 million people. I don't know. I yeah, no. Is that a brag? Because I'm like, okay, we'll get some more physicians in on this. Especially since I'm sure these questions cover a vast array of specialties as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

I mean, if this wants to work as a triage tool, great. You know, those decision trees, and then this is who you need to talk to.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

But so it's like we're trying to put a brain behind Dr. Google.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

You know, everyone just Googles themselves and it's like, you're dying. So hopefully this will be better.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Chat GPT says it's all okay. Additionally, let's hope. Additionally. Yeah, hopefully. Oh, I can't imagine. Imagine if it takes the worst of Google, like the the less than 1%, the misinformation.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yes. And I'm thinking, or think about the lawsuits of like, well, Chat GPT told me I was fine.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Imagine this is a thing, liability, but I guess they're already assuming that liability, and they're not, they don't have a health corner or a health sector that they can maintain privacy and and really harness that healthcare information. So I could see why they are probably doing this not just for money, but because I I would assume in the future, once this gets going, if someone asks a healthcare question, they'd be routed to the healthcare chat GPT. You know what I mean? Like, oh, okay, that's something more regulated than what we're doing here.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

And then maybe you're gonna mention this. I don't know, but you know, once you put something into chat GPT, it's just out there, like on the internet.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Well, you're so part of the state of dump, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Yeah. So then if you get quote unquote rerouted to this health sector, I I wonder, does that is that have more privacy regulations? Well, I'm glad you asked. Because Tell us.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

It plans to wall off health conversations from other parts of the app and enhance the privacy features. And I don't know what that means, but I just know that that's what they claim. So that's a really good point. Is they've thought of that. I don't know if what they're doing is going to be adequate, but she, you know, for litigious reason, I I bet that's pretty stringent. So they've they've they've kept that in mind. And their team stressed the service is designed to supplement, not replace the judgment of doctors. Quote, doctors don't have enough time or bandwidth. They can't spend as much time understanding everything about you, and they don't have time to explain what's going on in a way that you can understand, says Fiji SEMO, OpenAI's chief executive officer of applications, during a media briefing Wednesday. Meanwhile, when you look at AI, it doesn't have any of these constraints.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

I mean, I guess, but also I feel like many times on this episode, we've been talking about how physicians, clinicians, providers are forced to be doing more with less. So yeah, maybe we should fix some of those things too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

And then sister.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

You know, and then and then there would be time.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Yeah, there should be time.

unknown 34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah. I mean, I think because I'd rather hear it from my doctor that I'm going to see then.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Yeah. I think there's power in the fact that you can use AI to look at every study and every published case of this particular thing that's happened to someone or particular set of symptoms in the world in human history that's been documented and see absolutely like, okay, what worked. But then there needs to be a human behind it that's like, yeah. And also there's a likelihood that this is you, and and this is how we are nerds that like reading that stuff. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

So there's also that. Like, we're white page people, guys. Uh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

A lot of the white papers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

A lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

So don't take the white papers away from me. Don't take them away from me. I don't want to regurgitate.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

I see, I what I meant was white papers when I first said white pages, not to be confused with yellow pages for you youngsters that don't know what a phone book is.

Why Patients Fall For It And Protection Steps

Chart Note: AI Health Feature News

Stem Cell Tourism Risks Worldwide

Real Progress Versus False Hope

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Uh honey, they're not gonna know what white or yellow pages are. Are you kidding me? You've just lost the entire segment. They're like, wait, wait, wait. And you're young, so you know, life changes quickly. Life changes so quickly, right? Listen, I had a manual typewriter in high school just saying. Okay. So we're back to the episode. We're gonna talk about the third scam variant, which is stem cell tourism. Okay. When stem cell clinics begin to face increased scrutiny in the United States, many of them don't shut down. Instead, they relocate. This practice is known as stem cell tourism, and it involves patients traveling abroad to receive treatments that would never be approved, insured, or legally offered at home. While the destinations may change, the underlying pattern remains the same. Mexico has become one of the most common destinations for American patients seeking stem cell treatments. Clinics often cluster near the border in cities like Tijuana, Cancun, and Monterey, where they aggressively market to the U.S. patients that are suffering from chronic pain, neurological diseases, autism, and age-related conditions. These clinics advertise in English, require large upfront payments, and frame their treatments as legal here, but supposedly suppressed in the United States by over-regulation or corporate interests. Patients are frequently told that Mexico has a more progressive or advanced medical regulation. In reality, Mexico does not have a regulatory system equivalent to the FDA for cell-based therapies. Oversight is fragmented and enforcement is inconsistent, and many clinics operate in a legal gray zone or outside the law entirely. As a result, U.S. patients have returned home with serious complications, including severe infections, sepsis abscesses, and neurological damage. When these complications occur, patients are often treated in American emergency rooms where doctors have no clear information about what was injected. Medical records are difficult or impossible to obtain, and patients have no meaningful way to hold the foreign clinic accountable. Panama represents a different version of the same problem, one wrapped in luxury branding and medical ambiguity. The country has hosted some of the most high-profile international stem cell clinics, many of which present themselves as elite medical destinations. These clinics advertise private hospitals, concierge-style care, international physicians, and treatments for conditions like Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis, ALS, autism, and even aging itself. The scam here lies in blurring the line between legitimate clinical research and paid medical treatment. Patients are often told they're participating in cutting-edge research, when in reality they're paying tens of thousands of dollars, sometimes 30,000 to 50,000 or more, for unproven interventions. Consent forms typically waive nearly all legal liability. Many of these treatments lack peer-reviewed evidence, transparent treatment protocols, or published safety data. Some clinics have faced international criticism for conducting what amounts to pay to participate human experimentation, a practice that's explicitly prohibited under established research ethics. One major red flag is that legitimate clinical trials do not charge patients to enroll. In Eastern Europe, including countries like Ukraine, Serbia, and parts of Russia, stem cell tourism has grown rapidly, particularly for neurological conditions. Clinics in this region often claim decades of experience, government approval, or access to advanced European protocols. These claims are used to create a sense of legitimacy and authority. But in practice, these clinics exploit medical systems with limited regulatory oversight. Treatments are marketed as routine and well-established despite lacking credible scientific evidence. Patients are required to sign contracts governed by foreign law, and language barriers often make true informed consent impossible. While regulatory agencies may exist on paper, they frequently lack enforcement power. Medical malpractice standards vary widely, and lawsuits by foreign patients are often impractical or impossible. Patients who are harmed frequently return home with no legal recourse, no access to complete medical records, and no follow up care. Stem cell tourism is uniquely dangerous for several reasons. In many of these countries, there's no meaningful oversight comparable to FDA review, no independent monitoring of patient outcomes, and no requirement to report injuries or deaths. Clinics are effectively allowed to police themselves. Patients are also routinely required to waive their rights before treatment, signing broad liability waivers, arbitration agreements, and contracts governed by foreign law. In practical terms, this means no malpractice claims, no refunds, and no accountability if something goes wrong. Follow-up care is often non existent. Stem cell treatments are not simple. Stem cell treatments are not simple one-time procedures. They require ongoing monitoring, imaging, blood work, and management of potential complications. But once patients return home, clinics frequently stop responding. Records may be incomplete or withheld entirely, leaving U.S. doctors to treat complications without knowing what was injected, how it was processed, or where the heck it came from. Stem cell tourism is often framed as medical freedom, as patients taking control of their care when the system has failed them. But freedom without information isn't freedom, it's abandonment. And when medicine crosses borders to escape oversight, it stops being innovation and becomes exploitation. The takeaway is simple. If a stem cell treatment were truly safe, effective, and evidence-based, it wouldn't require a passport. Most stem cell clinics in the United States, even when they cross legal or ethical lines, face civil consequences. Warning letters, fines, orders to stop operating. Criminal charges are rare, which is why what happened in Draper, Utah matters. Felony charges were filed against three stem cell treatment promoters recently. Randall Matthew Relia, 58, and Relia's wife, Jenny Astrid Frazier, 46, and Dr. Paul William Winterton, 51, have each been accused of performing unlicensed stem cell operations in Draper, Utah. Each of them has been charged with engaging in a pattern of unlawful activity and communications fraud, which are second-degree felonies and obstruction of justice, which is a third-degree felony. Each of them was charged with additional third-degree felonies. Rolier was also charged with four counts of unlawful practice of osteopathic medicine, and Frazier was also charged with unlawful practice of osteopathic medicine and two counts of unlawful and unprofessional conduct. Dr. Winterton was charged with unlawful practice of osteopathic medicine and three counts of unlawful and unprofessional conduct. These are not minor offenses. Second-degree felonies typically allege repeated coordinated conduct. Not a single mistake, not a misunderstanding, but an ongoing operation that prosecutors believe crossed clear legal lines. According to the charging documents, Relgier had a license in osteopathic surgery in Missouri in 1999 as and as an osteopathic physician in Utah in 2004, but he had his license revoked or had to surrender it several times since 1999, including in 2009 in Utah, where he admitted to, quote, unprofessional conduct, including unlawful distribution of controlled substances, driving under the influences of drugs, and record-keeping violations, end quote. He was issued a quote restricted active on probation, end quote, license from 2015 to 2020 in Utah, which prohibited him from running a private practice or supervising others in a practice, as well as having a license to use scheduled drugs. The probation also required him to report to the Utah Division of Occupational Licensing. Another point in these papers was that he signed a contract with and began practicing at Glam Aesthetics Lounge, 177 West 1230 South, as their medical director in 2018. He displayed licenses at Glam Aesthetics and SPA Trouv, that according to the Division of Occupational Licensing, investigators appeared fraudulent. And he admitted to be being identified as doctor by staff and patients at Lone Park Hospital and was cited by the Division of Professional Licensing and issued a cease and desist order. He also advertised stem cell treatments on the website of, quote, Precision Point Regenerative Health, end quote, and continued to practice after he and Fraser were cited by the Division of Professional Licensing for, quote, practicing medicine without a license and aiding and abetting the practice of medicine without a license, comma, respectively, end quote. And finally, he attempted to harvest stem cells from a man seeking a follow-up consultation with Dr. Winterton using a procedure that the man said caused him so much pain. He's in trauma, and it cost him an emergency room visit. So, according to the charging documents, Winterton said he was partners with Rel Gea in the business of regenerative health. And he referred to Rail Gea as basically his medical assistant that he supervised from another state miles away. He said, Oh, well, you know, this guy would do all the initial assessments on patients and discuss treatment options, but he would discuss them with me before any patient would undergo any treatment. The communications fraud charge is especially important because in cases like this, it usually refers to false or misleading statements that are used to obtain money, often through consultations, marketing materials, or electronic communication with patients. In other words, prosecutors are alleging that patients were not just treated improperly, but they were misled. And then there's the obstruction of justice charge. That allegation suggests that investigators believe there was an attempt to interfere with the investigation itself by hiding evidence, altering records, or otherwise impeding oversight. When you add obstruction, it tells authorities that this wasn't just reckless, but this was a conscious, concerted effort to avoid accountability. But one of the most significant aspects of this case is the involvement of a licensed physician. Dr. Paul William Winterton is named alongside non-physician promoters. In criminal cases involving medical fraud, a doctor's participation often makes the allegations more serious. Medical credentials can lend legitimacy to unproven treatments because they reassure patients. They lower skepticism. And when that trust is abused, prosecutors tend to treat it as an aggravating factor, and I think they should. But to be clear, these are allegations. The defendants are presumed innocent unless proven guilty in court. But the decision to pursue felony charges reflects something important. It shows that at least one jurisdiction is no longer viewing stem cell fraud solely as a regulatory gray area or business dispute. Instead, it's being treated as organized, unlawful activity, financial deception, and interference with medical oversight. So that's a shift. That's important. Because for years, stem cell clinics have operated in a space where the worst case scenario was that we get a warning letter or be told to shut down. And then they just reopen under a new name. So this case is a harbinger that perhaps that model might be changing. So, in other words, when unlicensed medical procedures are paired with alleged deception and harm, prosecutors might now be willing to treat them not as paperwork violations, but as serious crime. Enforcement against fraudulent or unapproved stem cell clinics often fails, not because the regulators are unaware of the problem, but because the system is structurally weak. The FDA's enforcement arm is chronically underfunded relative to the size and growth of regenerative medicine marketplace, which means investigations move slowly and resources are spread thin. When action does occur, it's most often civil rather than criminal. And the penalties imposed are frequently cheaper for clinics to absorb than the cost of full compliance with federal regulations. So as a result, many operators simply shut down when they're cited, pay the fine, reband under a new name, and open in a different location and keep doing what they're doing and offering the same treatments. And so that means no criminal consequences for the individuals involved, even when patients are harmed. So this created a system where the risk of enforcement is low and financial incentives to keep operating remained high. I mean, in almost any other industry, selling a fake medical product that blinds people would be a crime. In regenerative medicine, it's often been just a business setback. So you might ask yourself, how on earth do people fall for this? Why would anyone believe these outlandish promises to the point where they're willing to give up wads of cash and put their own personal safety on the line? Patients with ALS, MS, or Parkinson's spend months or years chasing stem cell treatments. They drain their savings accounts, they delay evidence-based cares, and they wait for improvement that never comes. But by the time they realize they've been scanned, their disease advanced and the meaning the window for meaningful treatment closed. Many families refinance their homes and start fundraisers or borrow from relatives. Clinics close, rebrand, reopen under new names, and patients are often left ashamed, broke, and sick, blaming themselves instead of the system that failed them. People fall for stem cell scams not because they're careless or uninformed, but because these schemes are designed to exploit very real human vulnerabilities. For people living with chronic or degenerative illness, desperation can override skepticism, especially after years of being told that conventional medicine has little more to offer. Many patients adopt a, well, I got nothing to lose mindset where the possibility of harm feels abstract compared to the daily reality of pain, disability, or decline. This is often compounded by a growing distrust of traditional medicine fueled by rushed appointments, impersonal systems, and experiences of feeling dismissed or unheard. Stem cell clinics capitalize on this by marketing hope as compassion, presenting themselves as the only ones that are willing to try, to listen, and to believe in recovery when everyone else stopped. Cultural forces also play a significant role. The Silicon Valley ethos of move fast and break things has seeped into healthcare, reframing experimental medicine as bold innovation rather than untested risk. Anti-regulation rhetoric reinforces the idea that oversight exists only to slow progress or protect entrenched interests rather than to safeguard patients. Celebrity endorsements and influencer testimonials lend false credibility, making unproven treatments feel mainstream and socially validated. At the same time, the wellness industry's crossover into medical spaces blurs boundaries, mixing legitimate health practices with pseudoscience in ways that make it difficult for patients to distinguish evidence-based cares from exploitation. Together, these psychological and cultural factors create an environment where false hope can feel not only reasonable but responsible. Protecting patients from stem cell scans requires clear practical guidance rather than vague warnings. The first step is understanding what FDA approval actually means. Patients should rely only on the FDA's official list of approved cellular and gene therapy products, and be aware that at present those approvals are extremely limited. Claims that a clinic is FDA registered or FDA compliant do not mean that their treatments are approved or safe or effective. Patients considering experimental therapy should also verify whether treatment is part of a legitimate clinical trial by checking clinicaltrials.gov, the federal database of registered studies. That's clinicaltrials.gov. A critical rule is that legitimate clinical trials do not charge their patients to participate. If a clinic's asking for thousands of dollars while calling in the treatment research, that's a major red flag. And finally, patients should learn to recognize common warning signs. These include clinics that claim to treat many unrelated conditions with the same procedure, guarantee results, and rely heavily on testimonials instead of published data, require large upfront cash payments, or pressure patients to act quickly. It's that scam mentality. Taken together, these steps can help patients distinguish between real medical research and treatments that are more about selling hope than delivering care. Despite all of this, real progress is happening. Stem cell research has led to life-saving bone marrow transplants, cell therapies, and gene-edited treatments for rare diseases. But the difference is rigor, transparency, and humility about what science can and cannot do yet. Stem cells didn't fail patients, people did.

Medical Mishap Mailbag: “Zero Heart Rate”

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Thank you for sharing that. I had a patient in clinic one time that was a cochlear implant patient, but he was so set on stem cell research that he's gonna wait to see. And I mean, more power to him if he wants to wait to see. But he doesn't stop thinking about that. Stem cells and hair cells are different when you were doing it.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

I guess you can get a stem cell to turn into a hair cell.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Well, but he said they're doing research on regenerating hair cells via stem cells.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

So I mean it's not like we're anti-progress, but it's it's like when you start just sucking fat out of someone's butt and putting it in their eyeballs, it's like, where's the accountability? Come on, guys. What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 55:39

And I can see, so like that's hearing. Obviously, hearing is important and we're very passionate about hearing. We're audiologists. But I can see why people who have Parkinson's or ALS or these things, you know, that they're just draining their bank account to try anything. It's sad.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

It's sad that it feeds off of that when we've done a lot of episodes about that, feeding off the vulnerable, just like any scam, whether it's to do with healthcare or finances or love or whatever somebody's taking advantage of somebody else. Because there's usually a green of truth, and then a whole lot of that sense of urgency, and then just a you know, the right language that makes it sound legitimate, that sense of urgency, and then taking on the vulnerable, you know. And so people uh who are suffering without a cure are obviously vulnerable. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

And to the point, like you mentioned a couple times, I would try anything at this point, would you have to lose?

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Oh, that's so sad. And I think it's important that you mentioned how they will close, rebrand, open, the same scheme. Close, rebrand, open, same scheme. Just a revolving door of crap. But also more important that you mentioned the FDA approval. Just because they are registered does not mean they are approved. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Listen, Amanda, I want you to name one of my most favorite foods. You know me. What do you what do I love?

SPEAKER_01 57:22

Indian food.

Tease Next Week And Listener CTAs

SPEAKER_00 57:24

That's right. I love me some spice in my life. So let's talk about the Cumin Club, our second sponsor, where culinary adventure meets convenience because making those curries from scratch can take days if you do it properly. Not to mention multiple trips to the grocery store for the stuff you forgot, and then possibly some ingredients that aren't available in your grocery store. So dive into a world of authentic Indian flavors with these cumin club meal kits, expertly crafted, to bring rich, diverse tastes of India straight to your kitchen. Each kit boasts all natural ingredients portioned and ready to cook in just five minutes, ensuring a quick and hassle-free dining experience. Cumin Club's curated recipes are free from preservatives and celebrate the vibrant traditions of Indian cuisine while catering to modern lifestyles. Embrace the essence of India with every meal and transform dinner into a cultural journey. Discover the joy of effortless cooking and elevate your palate today with a cumin club. Head on over to thecuminclub.com for a whopping 30% off your order when you use our exclusive promo code Stay Suspicious at checkout. That's www.thecuminclub.com with promo code stay suspicious for 30% off. Now, a word about our sponsors. Producing a podcast isn't free. So if you want to support us, we earn a commission when you use our promo code Stay Suspicious at checkout. It's a win-win. You get a great deal on a fabulous product, and you get to support our show. So thank you in advance. But now it's time for a medical.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

Okay, I'm gonna take it away. Um girl. The title is Apparently I Was Dead for a Minute. So this should be good. It reads, Dear Doctorine the Truth, Podcast Queens. Huh. Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

Hello. Nail painting emotion. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Big fan of the show, but especially after what I'm about to tell you. Wait. Big fan of the show, but especially after what I'm about to tell you that happened to me. I did read that right. Okay. I'm sorry to feel a hiccup coming, guys. So when it comes, I'm so sorry. But this is funny now. It was not funny at the time. I went in for a completely routine outpatient biopsy. Nothing dramatic, no warnings. There it is. The kind of thing where they tell you you'll be home by lunch. They hooked me up to the heart monitors, wrapped the blood pressure cuff around my arm, and a nurse said, just relax. Okay, let's get the meds rolling, and I'll do I'll do just that. That's funny. I wasn't fully asleep, just lightly sedated, aware enough to hear voices, not awake enough to argue with them. Oh, at some point the room got very quiet. Then someone said, huh? That's not a word you want. Here in a medical setting. Another voice asked, What's his heart rate? Someone else replied, Zero. Zero? I remember thinking, wow, this is a weird way to find out. Oh my god. No. Then someone tapped the monitor and said, Oh, never mind, the lead came off. And just like that, resurrection via adhesive. They reattached the pad to my chest. The monitor beeped reassuringly, and everyone went back to work like it. I hadn't just briefly died on paper. No one explained this to me. No one apologized. They just said, Okay, you're good. Later in my discharge paperwork, there was a note about cardiac monitoring irregularities. That feels like a very calm way to describe accidental death by a loose sticker. When I asked the nurse about it, she said, Oh yeah, those leads fall off all the time. All the time. So now I tell people I technically died during a biopsy, but I didn't see a light, just a nurse who said, huh? And an electrode that needed better adhesive. Thanks for reading this on the show. If you do, stay safe and stay suspicious of unsticky sensors, Matt. Thank you for sending that in. You are a great writer.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Goodness. I'm sure he had a moment where he was like, We need zero. Holy crap. I loved that. This is weird. This is it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

Where's the light? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

Where's the light? Why didn't the light come for me? Oh my gosh. Listen, Amanda, what can our listeners expect to hear next week?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

Next week we're going to talk about ear candling.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

Ooh, a favorite topic of mine. Uh-huh. Yeah. Is it pro or con?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

I'll let you answer. I'll let you take a stab at that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

It's going to be revealing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

Yeah. Hopefully I'm sorry to people. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So until then, don't miss a beat. Subscribe or follow Doctoring the Truth wherever you enjoy your podcasts for stories that shock, intrigue, and educate. Trust, after all, is a delicate thing. You can text us directly on our website at doctoringthe truth at buzzsprout.com. Email us your own story ideas, medical mishaps, and comments at Doctoringthe Truth at Gmail. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at Doctoring the Truth Podcasts and Facebook at Doctoring the Truth. We are also on TikTok at Doctoring the Truth and Ed Odd Pod, which is E D A U D P O D. Don't forget to download, rate, and review so we can be sure to bring you more content next week. Until then, stay safe and stay suspicious. Suspicious. Goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

Three, two, one, bye. One stop.