Ep 56-Notorious Nurse: The Murders of Jolly Jane

A cheerful bedside smile is supposed to mean safety. That’s why the case of Jane Toppin, nicknamed “Jolly Jane,” still hits like a gut punch more than a century later. We walk through how a Boston woman born Honora Kelly could become one of America’s earliest notorious female serial killers while working as a nurse, using charm as cover and exploiting the gaps of late-1800s medical oversight.

We trace her early life through poverty, loss, institutionalization, and being indentured as a child in the Toppin home where she’s even given a new name. Then we follow her into nursing, a profession that gave her something she craved: access, authority, and trust. From there, the story turns dark fast, with discussions of morphine and atropine poisoning, her reported fascination with convulsions, and how patients who were elderly or isolated could become targets with few questions asked. We also talk through her arrest, her unnerving candor, and the trial that ends with an insanity verdict that sparks strong reactions.

Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review, then tell us: what systems would you want in place to catch the unthinkable sooner?

RESOURCES:

Advanced Science News 

ETH zurich 

Schecter, Harold. “Fatal: The Poisonous Life of a Female Serial Killer.” HarperCollins, 1992.

McBrayer, Mary Kay. “America’s First Female Serial Killer: Jane Toppan and the Making of a Monster.” Rowman & Littlefield, 2014.

Morbid Podcast, “Jolly Jane” two-part series. https://morbidpodcast.com/

Boston Daily Globe archives, 19th century reporting on Jane Toppan.

Taunton Insane Hospital records, Massachusetts Archives.

Bartleby Criminal History Resources: https://www.bartleby.com/docs/crime/jane-toppan.html

Early 20th-century nursing journals, Massachusetts Historical Society archives.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0d59e7wjlo?fbclid=IwY2xjawQZaIFleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFGUTJJTnlIT2NsOWl0cDV5c3J0YwZhcHBfaWQPNTE0NzcxNTY5MjI4MDYxAAEeqUsexdQ7RbTKwNCzwYMUuDQO8nAuaBuswgDSk-4QUG7wZAyuKO9-BbcQcp8_aem__FfHeNBO0Ae9MHK1WWD5RQ 

Transcript

Inflatable Colon And New Baby

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Amanda. Hi, Jenna. Hi. How's it going?

SPEAKER_05 1:05

Once again, I love that we always exchange pleasantries once we hit record, as if we didn't already talk before. I think we we got a good at least 10 minutes of catch-up before we hit record. Some of which I'm like, this should have just been on the pod.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

And other things were like, that's inappropriate. Thank God we didn't press record yet. Or Jenna would have more editing.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Sorry, mom, in advance. So what we're laughing about as we came on was the inflatable colon that apparently is making its tour around different clinics in my organization. And the best photo up in the inflatable colon gets entered in a drawing. So I mean, I've already had a few pictures, but tomorrow I'm planning on going spelunking in the inflatable colon with my headlamp and flashlight in hopes of winning this award. So I just, you know, colon health is really important and a serious thing, but I mean, what a way for the department to, you know, promote it. Apparently, it's colon health month, which is a blue ribbon for colon cancer. So everybody gets screened. Meanwhile, if an inflatable colon makes its way to you, I suggest you take advantage of the photo ops.

SPEAKER_05 2:21

You know what? And you're not gonna forget it because it was fun to learn. If we make learning fun, everyone retains it.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Oh, it was a real learning experience. I tell you, I tell you what. So it was fun. Yeah. I mean, there were a few nurses that I tried to rally who were like, I am not of that orifice. I'm not going. Really? I mean, it's not for real. It's inflatable plastic. Okay. So everybody has their boundaries. So apparently I don't have one where it comes to the body. We respect boundaries. Oh man. But anyway, how's our uh how's our baby? How's our baby? Baby is really good.

SPEAKER_05 3:13

Baby Yelly Cat is good. Good. Yeah, he's doing good. Growing big, growing strong, doing a lot of eating, sleeping, and pooping. Yep, that's his job. He's doing it well. Yeah. He's doing an A plus. He needs a raise. He's good at his job.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Oh man, to be an infant.

SPEAKER_05 3:34

I know. And then I'm like, oh my gosh, you just had the most glorious nap. And they always say, like, nap when the baby naps. Oh, okay. Okay, nap when the baby naps.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

I do that at night. Right? You're like, now's the time to clean up the puke and the poop and the all the the remnants of the fact that you have a baby. I'm making his milk.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

I do his laundry. I there's a lot of bottles to wash.

SPEAKER_05 3:58

There's a lot of things. A lot of things. But L O L Q, yeah, sleep with the baby sleeps. Hee hee. Good idea.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Those statements are made by people who don't who haven't been there maybe or have been there so long ago they forgot this. So long ago that.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

Yeah. There has been a few times where I'm like, holy this is crazy bananas, right? And then I can't remember which country artist sings this song, but you know that you're gonna miss this song. Yeah. Yeah. And so in my head, I'm like, you're gonna miss this.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

You're gonna want this back.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Sing it enough if it comes true. Yeah. Well, see, the thing is you you you feel like, okay, I've got to get the diapers, I gotta make sure they don't, you know, that they sleep on their back and then you know, and they survive and all of this. And then when they survive to the next level, it's like bigger problems. It's sort of sort of something. And you know what? It never ends. I mean, I've got somebody in their 20s and somebody who's 18, and they're just different set of problems.

SPEAKER_05 5:02

So just an unlocking new levels left and night.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Yep. And I think about myself, I won't say how old I am, but my parents are probably still worried about me.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

Probably. My mom always says the mom button never turns off.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

No, it really doesn't. So well, it's a journey, and I'm glad to be on it, and I'm sure you are too.

SPEAKER_05 5:24

Me too. It's the best but most demanding job I've ever had. Yeah. I should have said that opposite. It's the most demanding but best job I've ever had.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Well said.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

Well said, my friend. Thank you. We don't really have a correction section, really, but you were gonna share I do have a correction at the end of the last episode. Yeah, you had said something I was like, I've never heard of that before, but yeah, take it away.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

Okay, well, so I I said, Oh yeah, I'm looking for this, I'm researching this story, but I think it's like probably crazy pasta. And then she, Amanda's like, excuse me, and her ears perked up, and I was all like, Oh yeah, you know, I'm I'm I'm so Gen Z. I know all these things and whatever, but by the way, it's it's like well, older than Gen Z. And it's not even called crazy pasta, it's called creepypasta. So according to Wikipedia,

Creepypasta Correction And Sleep Deprivation

SPEAKER_03 6:23

creepy pasta refers to a type of horror-related legend shared online, often designed to frighten or disturb readers. So the term creepypasta combines creepy and copy pasta, a term for text that gets copied and pasted repeatedly online. So creepy pastas are typically short and follow a set of common formulas like anecdotes or rituals, and they have their origins in the early days of the internet, where they were shared anonymously on forums and other sites. The term creepypasta was popularized in 2007. So sorry about Gen Z. I mean what is that, millennial? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. And has since evolved, so you don't have an excuse. Are you a millennial? You're a millennial. I am. Yeah, why didn't you? I'm just kidding. I'm calling you on the carpet.

SPEAKER_05 7:09

Because 2007, I was already alive for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

And has since evolved into a broader term for any crazy story uploaded to the internet. So that's why I got the I got the crazy, but anyway, so correction for on that. Cool. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 7:28

Okay, pre-apologies. Obviously, I don't sleep a lot. So I'm a Yanni tonight, and I feel like I'm a little lispy today.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

I mean, Yanni plays the pan flutes. I can't wait to hear you be Yanni. Yanni plays the pan flutes. Oh my god, yes. He's an artist named Yanni who plays the like.

SPEAKER_05 7:53

Yeah. So I never even heard of a pan flute. Okay. Oh. And I was in bands. Oh my gosh, girl. Well, they're not in bands. Trumpet.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

Yeah. Flutes are up front. Picture kids in the back. Picture hippie with like bamboo uh flutes of different lengths on a long standard.

SPEAKER_05 8:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown 8:10

You know.

SPEAKER_05 8:10

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 8:12

Anyway. Okay. Anyway, pre-apologies, Yanni and Lispy. Yari. Hi. I I yeah, had a thought and it's gone. Okay. So sponsor number one. Obviously, we've been talking about them. Handful activewear. I wish that um you guys could have seen the bra that Jenna showed me. It's so cute. It's very spring-coated and floral. But they have defined what women's activewear should be because they are designed by women for women. Handful sports bras and compression leggings are made to move with you, no matter how you work out or live your life. From yoga and running to stretch, strength training, but probably stretching too, because everything in between, this gear adapts, supports, and performs. Each piece is crafted with moisture-waking fabric,

Handful Activewear Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_05 9:06

serious support, and a sleek, flattering fit that looks just as good outside the gym as it does inside. Handful stands out by creating multifunctional activewear that empowers women to feel strong, confident, and comfortable all day long. Once you try handful, you'll feel the difference. Upgrade your activewear experience with the freedom to move, perform, and live without limits. Shop HandfulActiveWare now at handful.com and use our code stay suspicious for a whopping 30% off. Wowser. Yeah. So I've been talking about this for probably eight, ten months. Who knows? I actually should have looked at the last date that I edited this document before I finished it. Hang on, just to pull this up. Yeah, July of last year is when I started working on this. No, I'm sorry, June 30th. I started it. Well, I finished it. We've been talking about it. Jolly Jane Toppin. Heard about her? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Well, I don't know many details. I think mostly I recognize her name because of you talking about it.

SPEAKER_05 10:16

Oh, everyone's like, wow. Yeah, we've heard about it from you, but nothing else. Well, it is a

Jane Toppin Childhood And Identity Theft

SPEAKER_05 10:22

very widely covered case. It's a big case. So that I feel like that's why I struggled to finish it, is because it is so widely covered. You don't want to feel like you're like copying anybody.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Right. It's really hard to do these widely known ones, but I have every confidence that you're pulling out something that will pique our interest that we don't remember or haven't heard.

SPEAKER_05 10:45

I did read a different book that I don't often see cited. So I was hoping that puts a little bit of different into it. Um, so there were two books that I read for this 900 years ago. So the first one I'm sure it feels like that, but yeah. I feel like we're all on the edge of our seats together. I'll be reading this story from um eons ago that I just finished. So uh the first book is America's first female serial killer, Jane Toppin in the Making of a Monster by Mary Kay McBrayer. And then a very well-known book, often cited Fatal The Poisonous Life of Female Serial Killer by Harold Schechter. As always, the resources I can't think will be in the show notes. And then another podcast that covered this that is actually the first place I heard about the episode, but long before we had a podcast, but morbid podcast. They did a two-part. Love those two. Oh man. So if you heard my second to theirs, I'm so sorry. It's gonna be boring, probably.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

They're so good. No, it's not. We have our own take on it. Some people have described us as very kind of similar in terms of banter and storytelling. So I take that as a as a compliment for sure.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

Absolutely. I would have so much fun hanging out with them. Um but any hoosies, so I do have morbid podcasts listed of two-part series in the show notes as a resource. But any hoosies, shall we just, I don't know, get into it? Bring it. I've been waiting nine months. No, I'm just kidding. Same. I feel like, oh sorry, the dog ate my homework. It's so late. No, not at all. Not at all. You've been bringing it, girl. Every other week. Yeah. Okay. I feel like I just have to get one yawn out really quick. Go for it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I swear to God, I think. It was a two potter. You're talking about. It was a two-pada where they used to be. And down your throat.

SPEAKER_05 12:51

Oh no, they're they were there. You know, if you fight the yawn, it just keeps coming back with vengeance.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Oh my god, I realized I didn't yawn. Hold on. I don't want to be a psychopath. You psychopath! No or I have to yawn. Okay. I'm cleared. I'm ready. Now you have to do another one. Does that mean I have to yawn again?

SPEAKER_05 13:11

I covered the camera so she doesn't feel the wrath of it. In the annals of American crime, few names are as chilling or as perplexing as that of Jane Toppin. Born Honora Kelly on March 31st, 1854, in Boston, Massachusetts. She would later be known as Jolly Jane, a nickname that belied the darkness simmering beneath her cheerful exterior. Honora was the youngest of three daughters born to Irish immigrant parents, Bridget and Peter Kelly. In mid-19th century Boston, being Irish carried social stigma and economic hardship. Bridget Kelly succumbed to tuberculosis when Honora was only five, leaving the children in the hands of Peter, a man whose eccentricity and alcoholism made him singularly unfit to be a parent.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

That's sad.

SPEAKER_05 14:10

He was so unstable that neighbors and historians recount a story of him sewing his own eyelids shut. A grotesque reflection of the erratic behavior that would define much of his life. Oh can you imagine? What?

SPEAKER_03 14:25

How and why? And oh my Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 14:29

Is he like, I'm just so tired, fuck it, I'm sewing these babies shut. I have no idea. But yeah, wild.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

I have so many questions. Anyway, okay.

SPEAKER_05 14:40

By February 1863, Peter Kelly had abandoned the task of caring for his daughters entirely, surrendering Honora and her sister Delight Delia to Boston Female Asylum. Which, side note, nothing to do with this. I'm so sorry. Undiagnose ADHD. I think it would be so fun to find an asylum thing to cover. Okay, here we go. It was a public institution for destitute girls. The asylum's records described the children as, quote, rescued from a very miserable home, end quote. Suggesting that both had endured abuse. For Nora, who would later become Jane, as I mentioned, this early experience of neglect and displacement formed the foundation for a complex interplay of craving affection and harboring resentment. It was at this institution that she demonstrated both a remarkable work ethic and an insatiable desire for approval, qualities that would later be manipulated into a veneer of charm capable of concealing lethal intentions. Later that year, Honora was indentured to Anne C. Toppin, a widow seeking a young servant for her household. At the tender age of eight. Eight. Eight eight. She was removed from the institutional care and placed in the private home, where Anne became a formative figure, though not a nurturing one. She's a baby. She's a baby. The arrangement required Inora to perform endless charms while her employer's daughter, Elizabeth, enjoyed the freedoms of typical childhood.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Can you imagine? Cannot. It's the Cinderella story, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:28

The disparity. Yeah, Cinderella story. This disparity combined with the harsh discipline imposed by Anne, who reportedly told Enora, quote, just because you were born a patty doesn't mean you have to act like one. Okay, racist lady.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Oh my god, I hate her.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

Okay, Anne. Oh. So that only fueled feelings of jealousy and in inadequacy, obviously. In an effort to erase her past and reshape her identity, Anne instructed that Inora adopt a new name, Jane Tappen. Oh, so now she's in charge of her name as well, so she doesn't even get her identity. Oh my god. No, no. And from that moment forward, the girl who had once been praised for industriousness and charm was now molded into a persona that would later conceal her darker impulses. It's so sad. Eight, she's a baby playing Cinderella. The Tappen household exposed Jane to early lessons in power, hierarchy, and resentment. Elizabeth, who was the privileged daughter, and I hate to even call her that, like it wasn't her fault that she was in that position, right? But she was Anne's daughter. But she became a focal point of Jane's envy. Jane's outlet for her frustration and feelings of inferiority often manifested in deceit. Even as a child, she was known to fabricate stories about her family, her lineage, and her experiences, spinning tales of world-renowned sailors, English lords, and aristocratic connections.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

I mean, that's just childhood fantasy. I mean, can you blame her?

SPEAKER_05 17:58

No. Yeah. But I mean, the lies do become worse.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

But I mean, at this point, if we're just looking at the child, you can see how this happened.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

Imagination.

unknown 18:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

So the lies became a tool for her to control perceptions, manipulate interactions, and elevate herself in social hierarchies that she could not otherwise access. By adolescence, these fabrications had grown more insidious. Schoolmates described her as an incorrigible liar, prone to wild fabrications that she doggedly stuck to even when they were prove proven flagrantly false. So like always causing mischief at school, kind of the rumor starter. Yeah. And then when questioned by like authority figures, like teachers, like she wouldn't even admit it, she would just keep lying. Yeah. Um that's what a path is.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

But that's who she was becoming. I mean, you could show them in in in street lights, like, you know, hey, this is here's here's irrefutable proof that this is a lie, and they will not back down.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

Yeah. Right. So this penchant for deception combined with a relentless drive to please adults, because like I said, I didn't really say, but I kind of mentioned while she was at this the asylum for the girls, she learned that like if she worked really hard, everyone was like very happy. So she was like a people pleaser and that's why.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

She needed approval. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:27

Yeah. So she was like always working hard. What can I do? I will clean this, I will do that, I will do these chores, I will do the dishes, like just working very hard to seek that approval. And yeah. So all of those things to please the adults and then undermining her peers, all of that would foreshadow her later manipulations in life and in death. When Jane reached adulthood, she remained in the top in household, bound by social and economic limitations common for women in the late 19th century. Jobs for women at the time were scarce, largely limited to teaching, sewing, or factory work, with few opportunities for advancement or autonomy. Nursing, however, offered a path that combined opportunity with power. In 1887, Jane applied and was accepted into the nursing program at Cambridge Hospital. At the time, nursing was a profession still in formation, often staffed by women with little formal training or by inmates from workhouses, and oversight was inconsistent. The two-year program required grueling work. It was 14-hour days of janitorial labor, administering enemas, bathing patients, dressing wounds, and learning medication protocols under the direction of overworked head nurses. Despite the conditions, Jane thrived, right? She's that people-pleasing

Nursing School Power And Early Killing

SPEAKER_05 20:48

workaholic. And she earned the nickname Jolly Jane for her apparent cheerfulness and dedication. Patients adored her. She was attentive, personable, and charming. But beneath all of that, a darker pattern was starting to emerge. Instructors and colleagues noted her penchant for gossip, deceit, and manipulation. She would blame others for her mistake and spread slander that resulted in peers being dismissed from the program. Naughty naughty, gitty cheeky. There were suspicions that she provided false information about patients' conditions, sometimes sending them to other institutions without proper authorization, or deliberately administering incorrect treatments that prolonged suffering. Red flag! These actions, though subtle and often dismissed as youthful indiscretion or ambition, reveal the early stages of her deadly tendencies. Dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Oh, I need to get a button for that.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

Ooh, yeah, fine that. Jane's experimentation with medications began during these formative years. She reportedly withheld drugs or administered larger doses than prescribed, often using morphine and atropine to test their effects.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

So she's just full on playing with pharmaceuticals. Like to see what she can do to people. Oh gosh, this is not good.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

But remember, we're also in the 1800s, right? There's no like a medical EMR. There's not like a bountiful staff around. They are working by candlelight.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Yeah. Doctors are probably doing that too, like playing with medications to see what I mean, probably. Take. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:26

Yeah. By her own later admission, she killed approximately 12 patients during her residency.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Oh my god. That's not funny. I didn't know. Jane sounds like that. I know. I don't know why we laughed. It's not funny, but Jane.

unknown 22:38

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_05 22:39

A horrifying. For Jane, the act of causing death was both. Thrilling and satisfying. She reportedly took particular interest because we're killing so many people, we're finding an interest in some of them now. In patients who suffered convulsions, observing them closely, comforting them while simultaneously orchestrating their demise.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Sick. She's sick.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

Yep. This reminds me of and I should remember this nurse's name because I covered this case. But it was Remember in the children's hospitals? Yeah. Brighton. In Britain?

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Yeah, Bright. They're Bristol.

SPEAKER_05 23:18

Yeah, Bristol heart. Bristol cardiology. Yeah. Why can't I remember the nurse's name? Anyway, it has shades of that right now. So Jane's delight in watching patients die, her meticulous control over their final moments, and her ability to charm and manipulate those around her all while all this was happening created the perfect storm for a killer whose outward persona concealed the darkness within her. By the time of her graduation, Jane honed both her clinical skills and her capacity for deception. She understood not only how to care for patients, but also how to manipulate social dynamics within hospitals, which masked her lethal inclinations under a facade of competence and cheer. These early experiences of her life, the neglect of her father, the abuse and favoritism of the top in household, and her formative years in nursing training fused into a psychological profile that would drive her actions for years to come. She learned that appearances mattered more than reality and that charm could hide cruelty, and that power could be exercised subtly, invisibly, and lethally. After completing her training at Cambridge Hospital, Jane Toppin moved into the professional world of nursing with the same blend of that competence and charm that defined her residency. The late 19th century was a period when nursing was largely unregulated, hospitals were overcrowded, oversight was minimal, and many patients, especially the elderly, chronically ill or institutionalized, were at the mercy of those charged with their care. And like I said earlier, I mean we're working by candlelight here, guys. This is not this is the 1800s. Well, in early 1900s. But Jane quickly recognized the unique power of her profession that could afford her, that she could command trust, access medications, and determine life and death in ways that few outside of the hospital hierarchy could. I forgot we have music. Chart chart note. Oopsie poopsie. Welcome to the chart note segment where we learn about what's happening in medicine and healthcare. And I need to shout out our pod alleycat Rich. He actually sent me this.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Oh, Rich.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

He did. He did. He did. So it was a BBC article about some research that has been done on brains of pregnant women. Oh. Yes. So when I said my my brain fell out and all that, there's actually an explanation for all that.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

We need to hire him on to be our researcher.

SPEAKER_05 26:19

There's a

Pregnancy Brain Research And Bonding

SPEAKER_05 26:20

there's a explanation for that. So I'm gonna read this synopsis of this research to you guys, and then I kind of want to pull up and read his comment to me because it's really funny. Hee hee hee. Oh, you should, for sure. Okay, so recent research revealed that pregnancy triggers profound changes in the human brain, reshaping the structure in ways that appear to prepare mothers for the demands of caring for a newborn. The study, part of the Bee Mother project, followed 127 women during and after, no, before during and after pregnancy, comparing them with a control group of women who are not pregnant. Using MRI scans, researchers found that gray matter in the brain decreased by roughly 5% during pregnancy.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

What? I know expecting to hear that. I was expecting to hear that everything was allocated towards survival and protecting the baby.

SPEAKER_05 27:14

Yeah, no, actually changes in the gray matter, guys. Oh no. I know. Particularly in areas associated with social cognition, empathy, and emotional processing. These changes were concentrated in regions such as the prefrontal cortex and the temporal lobes, which are critical for understanding other people's thoughts, feelings, and intentions. Far from being a sign of cognitive decline, scientists interpret this reduction as pruning unnecessary neural connections to enhance efficiency and prepare the mother's brain for bonding and caregiving.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

Exactly. Hallelujah is on the baby, right?

SPEAKER_05 27:52

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

The study also found that the extent of these brain changes correlated with the strength of maternal attachment after birth. So hello, brain dead, love my baby so much. We're so bonded. Like the more brain dead you are, the more bonded you are. Yeah. Brain focused. Brain reallocation. Mothers whose scans shown more pronounced structural changes tended to report stronger feelings of bonding with their babies, suggesting that the neurological remodeling serves as an adaptive purpose. Some of the gray matter volume returns in the months following birth, but the brain does not completely revert to its pre-pregnancy state, indicating a lasting neurological imprint of motherhood. Isn't this crazy? What? Wow. And that like totally jives with like, I would tell people at work, you know, like, oh, I can't wait to get my brain back, you know, whatever. And they're like, they those who are already mothers are like, you know, it like comes back kind of, but like it's always kind of different. But like, hello, obviously, now we can say by research that that is absolutely true. So researchers note that these changes may also influence cognitive priorities, attention, and emotional sensitivity, helping new mothers respond quickly to infant cues and needs. This research challenges the common misconception that pregnancy harms memory or cognitive function. While anecdotal reports often refer to pregnancy brain or forgetfulness, the data suggests that the brain is instead reorganizing and refining itself to prioritize those social and caregiving abilities. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Next time someone says, Well, you forgot, I told you Swise, you'd be like, you know what? Your girls got priorities. I've reorganized.

SPEAKER_05 29:39

My my brain decided this actually is not very important. Restructured now. I loved this. I told him I love this. Thank you so much for sending this. So the authors emphasize that these changes are part of a broader evolutionary strategy. Human infants are highly dependent, and maternal brains must adapt to ensure survival and well-being in the early months of life.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Amen.

unknown 30:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

Beyond the scientific data, the findings have practical implications for understanding postpartum mental health. They provide context for why new mothers may experience heightened emotional sensitivity, intense focus on their infants, or changes in social awareness. Which in there it explained also, it's like, it's not that we think everyone else is doing it wrong or we could do it better. It's just that, like, that is our main focus is like, if you tipped the bottle a little more this way, they might not get as much air. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, just don't do it that way.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

Yeah, it's my baby.

SPEAKER_05 30:43

Just don't fuck it up.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Yeah.

unknown 30:45

Right.

SPEAKER_05 30:46

Yeah. Understanding these structural adaptations help normalize the experiences of new mothers and could inform strategies for supporting maternal mental health, early childhood attachment, and family dynamics. The research is also sparking further questions about how these brain changes interact with stress, sleep deprivation, and postpartum mood disorders, as well as whether similar patterns occur in fathers or primary caregivers under intense caregiving conditions.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

I love this.

SPEAKER_05 31:15

Overall, the study demonstrates that pregnancy is not just a physical transformation, it is a profound neurological event. The structural remodeling of the brain highlights the remarkable ways in which biology prepares humans for parenthood, enhancing emotional attunement, empathy, and caregiving abilities in anticipation of the arrival of their precious, precious little baby. I don't know if you can hear mine crying in the background, but if you can, sorry about it, but great timing, my my son. These insights help reshape how society understands motherhood, mental health, and the extraordinary adapta adaptability of the human brain.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Isn't that so cool? It is so cool, and I love this because I couldn't hear your baby crying, but because your brain is restructured so that you're ultimately in tune with the child, you could. Yeah. You're probably your limbic system's on high alert. But um, I just yeah, it's for a reason, and I love this so much. It's I know, thanks, Rich.

SPEAKER_05 32:17

Okay, so now I gotta find this comment. I'm so sorry, I should have just had this ready, but I, you know what? I was restructured, I didn't think about it until right now. Okay, so I was like, ha ha ha, I I love this. This is so interesting. Thank you so much, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, now women have a legitimate excuse, right? And I was like, that's right. But it also makes me feel better about my brain because I truly thought, you know, it had fallen out. And so then he says, plus, when you get called into HR for calling someone a knob, you now have a medical get out of jail free card.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

He always just has to take it that little extra cheeky step.

SPEAKER_05 33:01

My restructured brain thought it was appropriate to call you a knob.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

You knob. You have to say it the British way. That sounds even more insulting. Oh, blah, but thanks, Rich.

SPEAKER_05 33:14

Okay, yeah, that was a good one. But uh, okay, back to the story, but we have to yawn first.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Let everyone know I'm yawning. Not a psychopath.

SPEAKER_05 33:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

We gotta stop though, because I can't keep going.

SPEAKER_05 33:31

Got it. I know, I know. Okay, here we are. Okay, friends, we're ready. I'm goofy today. Okay. Jane's early murders. I should not have come into that so jolly. Jane's early murders.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

Early murders. Wait a minute. Did we know she was murdering?

SPEAKER_05 33:50

Yeah, she I said she already admitted to killing 12.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:55

Okay. Alright. And she was playing around with medications and watching people convulse, and she's just sick. Okay.

unknown 34:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 34:01

Jane's early murders were deliberate and meticulously planned. Still should not be giggling. She began experimenting with morphine and atropine, as I earlier mentioned, and sometimes administering doses that were dangerously high or deliberately withheld. She kept

Poisoning Methods And Medical System Gaps

SPEAKER_05 34:17

careful notes in her head rather than on paper, because she's sly. She would document responses and outcomes, ensuring that her actions remained invisible to colleagues. Patients who were ill, elderly, or socially isolated were often her targets. Those whose deaths would raise the fewest questions and whose suffering would be observed without interruption. Which makes me so freaking sad. Like, no one's gonna visit them. Ugh. The act of watching someone die became a perverse form of entertainment. And I just thought about this now. Like maybe she even used that as an excuse of like, wow, you're really, you know, acting as a one-on-one with this one more than like other people. But what if she was like, well, they don't have anyone to visit? Like, yeah, I feel that pull to be with freaking sick. I hope not. But probably. Probably. She took satisfaction not in stealth alone, but in the theatrics of death. The convulsions, the final struggle, the collapse of the body under her watchful eyes. To Jane, these moments were combinations of art and science. Disgusting. Accounts describe how Jane cultivated a persona of wealth. Contemporaneous accounts describe how Jane cultivated a persona of warmth and benevolence. Patients adored her, as I mentioned before. Colleagues admired her. She was diligent. Supervisors praised her for being efficient and cheerful. This jolly Jane facade was the perfect mask for lethal impulses that she harbored. It allowed her to move freely within the wards and private homes, gaining trust of families and staff alike. I don't remember her being in private homes, but again, I did this 500 years ago. Some patients even wrote letters of gratitude, unaware that the same woman who confronted comforted them could also be plotting their demise. This duality of the charming caregiver by day, calculating murderer by design, was central to her ability to operate undetected for many years. Her methods evolved over time. Like mentioned, she played around with the medicine. Initially, she experimented with them by using singular drops, and then as her skills grew, she started combining substance substances together, often using morphine, which is known for its sedative properties, and then pairing it with atropine, which induces cardiac stress and delirium. Combining the two became her signature. The combination created a controlled scenario in which she could observe the patient's body respond, sometimes leading to death and sometimes distressing, but they survived. It's just sad. Like it's hard to read that almost that someone could do that.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

That's unbelievable. Yeah. It's it's atrocious.

SPEAKER_05 37:09

I can't even I don't She often remained present, interacting with the patient, offering comfort, and sometimes discussing medical minutia, all while orchestrating a lethal event. Disgusting.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

I can't I can't imagine. I just like okay.

SPEAKER_05 37:29

Okay, honey, you'll be okay. Let me just give you this medication. You'll feel better, and just watching it get worse.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

It's almost wor I don't know, but it's almost worse than somebody like acting out of rage and passion, like stabbing someone because they, you know, feel so passionately. And then she's just like Melian, like pretending to care and pretending to comfort while all the while knowing she's turning up the dial on their death. Like, I don't know. Neither's good, but this this is just extra like makes your stomach turn. Extra evil. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Mm-hmm. So this hands-on approach that she had was both practical and psychological. It allowed her to witness the full spectrum of suffering and maintain the illusion of being that perfect attentive nurse.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

It's so gross.

SPEAKER_05 38:19

Her psychological motivations were complex and multifaceted. The resentment towards authority, cultivating during her childhood under, you know, her dad, Peter, and then Anne Toppin later, merged a profound desire for attention and control. Feelings of inferiority and jealousy present from her earliest years were externalized through acts of dominance over those that were most vulnerable. The act of killing became a mechanism to assert power and satisfy her curiosity about life, death, and human response. Scholars have noted that many serial killers emerged from early experiences of neglect and trauma, and Jane's trajectory fits this pattern. She combined intellectual curiosity, clinical knowledge, and emotional detachment in a way that made her uniquely effective and uniquely dangerous. As her career progressed, she moved between private homes, hospitals, and boarding situations. She often assumed the role of live-in nurse for elderly or ill patients, a position that allowed prolonged access and minimal oversight. Her murders were spaced in a way that reduced suspicion. One patient would die, some time would pass, and then another would fall ill under her care, and this cadence allowed her to experiment with drugs and methods while maintaining a reputation for competence. Friends, family members, and neighbors would often attribute deaths to natural causes, age, or pre-existing conditions, rarely suspecting that the cheerful nurse at the bedhand would have engineered the outcome. It was during her tenure in these positions that Jane reportedly began to articulate the philosophy of death. She claimed to find satisfaction in the dying process itself, particularly when it involved dramatic or violent convulsions. Her writings and confessions later revealed a disturbing aesthetic to her crimes. The anticipation, the act, and the observation were all integral to her pleasure. Unlike some serial killers whose motives are purely pragmatic, you know, money, revenge, or concealment, Jane's actions were performative, informed by curiosity, control, and darkly perverse sense of beauty and death. Mary Kay McBreyer in America's First Female Serial Killer book emphasizes that Jane's psychological profile combined ambition, intelligence, and psychopathy in a uniquely lethal mix. Despite her growing body count, Jane remained socially adept. She charmed employers and maintained cordial relations with colleagues, often positioning herself as indispensable. Families trusted her implicitly, unaware that her interest in them could be both nurturing and lethal. Her dual identity was dangerous. She was a competent nurse and the calculating experien experimenter. But nobody knew, and this allowed her to continue unchallenged for many years. In this period, she is believed to have killed dozens of patients through precise, though precise numbers are difficult to verify due to incomplete records, the passage of time, a lot of time, and her own manipulative manipulation of the narrative. Harold Scheckter in Fatal, The Poisonous Life of Female Serial Killer, provides a conservative estimate of 31 victims, though Jane herself implied that the number may be higher than that. The escalation of her crimes coincided with shifts in her personal life. Isolation, limited social bonds, and the ongoing need for validation amplified her focus on control over life and death. She rarely formed genuine friendships or intimate connections, and any feelings of affection were subordinated to curiosity or manipulation. Colleagues described her as cheerful but prone to manipulation, prone to gossip, and capable of blaming others for misdeeds. So this really carried through her entire life, from elementary school all the way up into her career. Even as her confidence grew, Jane remained aware of the risks. She moved between institutions, alternated those residencies, and was meticulous in documentation or lack thereof. Yet by 1901, her behavior began attracting attention. Family members of patients noticed patterns, that death seemed sudden or unnatural, the presence of Jane during all these incidents, and inconsistencies in medical records. The rumors began to circulate, though they were often dismissed as a coincidence or exaggeration. Her ability to continue for years without immediate consequence underscores the combination of charisma, intelligence, and system gaps, which, I mean, again, we're talking about late 1800s, early 1900s. There's going to be some system gaps, but they allowed her to operate undetected.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Yeah. And can I just say the fact that she's a woman, you know, and at that time period, you know, I was like, well, women could the delicate. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 43:24

Absolutely. That's why she was so prolific for her time. It's like a woman did this?

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:30

Yeah. Jane Toppin's early nursing career represents a period of both skill and sinister experimentation. She honed her methods, developed her psychological profile as a killer, and exploited the vulnerabilities inherent in the medical system of her era. The duality of her persona, the charming, efficient nurse, and the calculating experimental killer enabled her to carry out crimes while maintaining social and professional approval. This phase set the stage for the events that would ultimately lead to her arrest, trial, and infamy, marking her as one of America's first and most prolific female serial killers. Her reign of terror came to an end in 1901, though not without circumstance. Her crimes had accumulated a trail of suspicion, as mentioned, there were whispers among families of deceased patients and those inconsistencies and records that could no longer be ignored. The immediate trigger for her arrest came from a combination of luck, observation, and the growing unease among those who had once trusted her implicitly. At the same time, Jane herself began to act with less caution and Her growing confidence blinding her to the scrutiny of those around her. It was in this confluence of exposure that authorities finally took notice.

Arrest Confession Trial And Insanity Verdict

SPEAKER_05 44:52

When police and investigators confronted Jane, they found a woman whose outward charm masked decades of cruelty and experimentation. She did not deny her actions, but instead approached them with a disturbing candor. In interviews and later confessions, she described her fascination with the dying process, detailing the methods. Sorry, I had to burp. Okay. In interviews and later confessions, she described her fascination with the dying process, detailing the methods she had employed and the pleasure she derived from observing patients' final moments. Morphine and atropine were her tools, carefully measured and combined, not with the intent to cure, but provoke a response. She revealed the meticulousness of her planning, the way she had cultivated trust and obscured suspicion, and the thrill she found in maintaining the dual identities of the cheerful nurse, but also the calculating orchestrator of death. Schechter's book emphasizes that her confessions were both complete and eerily calm, reflecting the psychological detachment that defines her actions. Her trial captivated public imagination. Newspapers across the country reported on the cases with a mixture of fascination and horror. The idea of a smiling, charming nurse secretly killing dozens of patients was a stark contradiction of the societal expectations, particularly for women, as you had mentioned, in the caregiving roles. I don't even think just someone in the caregiving roles, just a woman in general for the time. Like a woman would never do this.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:42

The legal proceedings explored not only the specifics to her actions, but also the broader implications for medical oversight, trust, and ethics. Expert testimony highlighted her knowledge of pharmacology, her deliberate use of dosage, and her ability to manipulate social perceptions to conceal her crimes. Psychiatric evaluations later suggested she exhibited characteristics consistent with psychopathy. Superficial charm, lack of remorse, manipulativeness. Mm-hmm. And a pathological fascination with death. In Mary Kay McBrayer's book, America's First Female Serial Killer, she provides extensive analysis of her psychological profile and its implications for understanding female serial killers in historical context. Jane's confessions painted a vivid, chilling portion portrait of her crimes. She admitted to killing over 30 victims, though the exact number remains uncertain. Some died quickly and others lingered, allowing her to observe and experiment with the nuances of human physiology and mortality. Her motives were complex, blending curiosity, desire for control, and a profound fascination with the mechanics of death. She confessed that her satisfaction was greatest when the dying process involved dramatic convulsions or suffering, underscoring her disturbing aesthetic dimension to her killings. Unlike many serial killers whose crimes are motivated by profit, revenge, or concealment, Jane's acts were performative, intellectual, and sadistic. The verdict ultimately declared Jane Toppin as insane, and she was committed to the Taunton Insane Hospital in Massachusetts, where she would spend the remainder of her life. She lived there quietly until her death in 1938, having never faced conventional prison or execution. Her confinement, rather than traditional punishment, reflected contemporary understandings of mental illness and criminal responsibility, especially as they intersected with the gender. Her case challenged the prevailing assumptions that women were inherently nurturing and incapable of sustained violence, forcing society to confront a very uncomfortable truth about human nature and the potential for evil in unexpected places. Her legacy extends beyond the individual crimes she committed. Her case influenced early discussion on medical oversight, nursing regulations, and patient safety. It exposed vulnerabilities in hospital systems of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, where oversight was inconsistent and authority of a nurse could go largely unchecked. Her actions prompted both professional and public reflection on the responsibility of caregivers, the need for accountability, and the ways in which institutional trust can be exploited by those with malevolent. Reportings from the 20th century nursing journals highlight reforms in credentialing and supervision following high-profile cases like Toppins. Moreover, her story provides an early example of female serial killing in American history, contributing to criminological study and psychological profiling. Scholars examine gendered profiles, patterns, and serial homicide note that moreover, her story provides an early example of female serial killing in American history, contributing to criminological study and psychological profiling. Scholars examining gendered patterns and serial homicide note that Toppin's method of poisoning, subtle manipulation, exploitation of social trust differed from many of her male counterparts, yet were equally lethal. She demonstrated that female serial killers could operate under the radar, leveraging societal expectations of women's gentleness and nurturing roles to conceal their crimes. Her calculated charm, intelligence, and strategic deployment of lethality created a template that would be referenced in criminology and criminal psychology for decades. For listeners today, Jane Toppin's story serves as both a historical case study and a cautionary tale. As we close this episode, it is worth reflecting on the paradox of Jane Toppin. She was a woman who could inspire love, admiration, and trust while simultaneously orchestrating suffering and death. Her life and crimes force us to confront uncomfortable questions about human nature, institutional responsibility, and the capacity for evil in places where it's least expected. Jolly Jane's tale is unsettling, yet instructive, a stark reminder that appearance can deceive, and that vigilance, scrutiny, and ethical responsibility are essential in any context where one human holds power over another. In the end, Jane Toppin's life stands as a chilling intersection of history, psychology, and morality, a story that continues to resonate more than a century later. And you guys are so much more to Jane's story. She kind of goes back to Elizabeth and tries to steal her husband, and there's a whole whole situation. But again, it's hard to cover a case that's so widely covered because you don't want it to be like, oh, we talked about this and then that and then this, you know. So I encourage you guys to go and listen to Morbit's coverage of this and read any books or you know, whatever. There's probably like 500 different podcasts on Jane Toppin. But this was my rendition for you today. And now I bow down.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

Listen, Amanda loved it. You did a really good job. And what a nice insight into this woman's like upbringing and then what happened as a result. So I feel like, you know, I don't know if it's morbid or my favorite murder, but they always say, like, you can feel sorry for the child. Like you can see how she was set up for this, right? I mean, she was absolutely eight years old. Like your personality's just forming, and you're being taught that someone your own age deserves more than you. And you, and although it wasn't that other

Feeling For The Child Not Excusing

SPEAKER_03 53:28

girl's fault, is like, and I'm worth less according to this woman who and I have to do all of these menial chores. Of course, she's gonna want to grow up and control things. Now, some people grow up and they take this energy and somehow they don't turn out to hurt people, but she did. And and so we, you know, that was a choice that she made, and and and we can feel sorry for the child, but we don't actually excuse her behavior as an adult, right? Um for her to be declared insane is ridiculous. She was not insane, she was calculating, she was a sadist, she was a psychopath, she had quite the opposite. She knew how to hide, she knew how to hide in plain sight, and she took advantage of the fact that the culture at that time thought, well, women are nurturers, there's no way, you know, she could be doing this. And she took her knowledge of medicine and her knowledge and and her craving for control and power and killed innocent people. So I don't I don't appreciate that, I don't condone that. I feel sorry for the child, and I can see how she was set up to, you know, embrace this like kind of pave a carve a pathway for her to like she hit the Y in the road.

SPEAKER_05 54:47

I can see why she went down.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

The reason she was eight years old and an indentured servant wasn't isolated incident. There were many, many children, unfortunately, in that day and age that were in that similar situation, and they did not grow up to be, you know, women's first prolific serial killer. So we feel sorry for her childhood. It was awful, but she was definitely not insane, she knew exactly what she was doing, which you know, that sadistic tendency is extremely disturbing. And I thought that you painted that whole history very, very well. Thank you. So thank you for that. And I'm glad we don't have to talk about her anymore because I find her very disturbing and disgusting, and she should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And she got to live up her little existence in a in a menstrual mental institution, which you know they weren't like, you know, a resort, but she was probably able to have a lot more freedom and benefits than she would have in prison at that day and age.

SPEAKER_05 55:57

So yeah, absolutely. Um not so jealous. Okay, well, I'm glad we can finally close the chapter on this gene top, and then I started June 30, 2025.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Oh my gosh. That's a depressing case, but thank you.

SPEAKER_05 56:12

But before we move to our medical mishap, we have to talk about our second sponsor, Cozy Earth. We've heard about him, we love him. Jenna's got lots of stuff from them. Still need to order myself. I know the bamboo just feels so good. Okay, Cozy Earth. They redefine luxury sleep. I'm sorry, I was just thinking about God, how nice of me to go to bed and self-asleep. I'm like, hey, I'm like a podcast. We're still recording. I'm like, I wonder if the baby's eaten. Is the baby sleeping? When do I get to it? Okay, so Cozy Earth redefines luxury sleep with its best-selling bamboo sheet set made from 100% premium

Cozy Earth Sponsor And Supporting Show

SPEAKER_05 56:54

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SPEAKER_03 57:58

Is it time for a medical message? It is all right. Well, the subject line of this one is the case of the backwards test. Oh. I'm interested. Dear Jenna and Amanda, hi. I've been a fan of I had to say that because there were lots of eyes and lots of explanation. Explanation. Exclamation points. Hi! I've been a fan of your podcast for months now, and I finally have a story that I think fits your medical mishap theme. And even and it's even if it's more funny in hindsight than dangerous. Well what's hope so. And perhaps it's not even funny, but hey, I'm trying to feel like I finally have a story relevant enough

Medical Mishap The Backwards Blood Test

SPEAKER_03 58:48

to send in. Okay. I love this person. I recently went in for a routine blood test. Nothing serious, just some yearly labs that my doctor wanted. I was feeling healthy, cheerful, which probably cheerful was my first mistake. I arrived at the lab, filled all the forms, and took a seat. A phlebotomist called me over and asked which arm I preferred. I chose my left, thinking I'd always been, you know, quote, left arm loyal, end quote. Fast forward a few minutes and I realized something was odd. The phlebotomist had gone straight for my right arm. Okay, well, I didn't say anything because I hate confrontation. And partly because they were so confidently going for my right arm. The needle went in, I felt the sting, and I looked away. Everything seemed fine until I got a call two days later. Hi, this is the lab. We need to redo your blood work. Apparently they accidentally labeled my sample for another patient. No harm done, thankfully, but it meant I had to go back and have my blood drawn again. What a pain. I laughed about it at first, but until the second draw happened, which made me realize just how uncomfortable and awkward that process can be when it's repeated unnecessarily. The phlebotomist apologized profusely, and the second test went smoothly. No permanent harm, no crisis, just a reminder that even routine procedures aren't immune to human error. It stuck with me because it wasn't traumatic, it was but it was still a mishap. I had to take time off work for a second visit, and it made me hyper aware of the importance of double checking labels and charts. Not to mention which arm the needle goes in.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:36

I mean, yeah, don't ask me what arm you want it in if you're not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:40

I wonder if they're just so used to people saying a certain side and they just like and I mean we see a new patient every half an hour, hopefully not less, but I don't know if some people do, but they must see a new patient every five minutes.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:58

It's not an excuse, it's just like and you're asking the same question over and over. I mean, the the spiel is the same.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

And when you have a 50-50 choice, I guess if they have like a port or a pick or something, but um that would be hard, but also alarming if you're the patient going, well, I really want this arm, and then they go for the other one. And then and then on top of it, it's like we have to retake it. Why? Because you did the wrong arm, you know. Is that arm bad and the other one's okay?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:29

Yeah, but then turns out the arm had nothing to do with it. It was the label.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:32

I'd be I'd be a little annoyed.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:34

Uh well, how annoying you had to take off work again to go.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

But you had to, you know, you had to have a needle in your arm and give more blood for what? Oh I mean, mistakes happen. Yeah. People don't do these things on purpose, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:49

But annoying you had to go back. Thank you, Amy, for sharing that. Thank you, Amy. Amen. All right, Jenna. Are we hearing about this crazy spaghetti? Crazy spaghetti. Creepy pasta.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:02

I followed the creepy pasta down a rabbit hole, and it turned out not to be true. However, you found something on the way. It did lead me to something similar that is true. So we're gonna talk about organ donations and some surprising, well, creepy, non-cree pasta, but definitely creepy situations involved in organ donations. So I surprise you guys stay tuned. It's pretty craycray. Okay, well, we'd be looking forward to it.

ext Week Teaser And Listener Callouts

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

Meanwhile, don't miss a beat. Subscribe or follow Doctor in the Truth wherever you enjoy your podcast for stories that shock, intrigue, and educate. Trust, after all, it really is a delicate thing. You can text us directly on our website. Please do. We get so excited when we get a text from you on our website, and then we put it up there for everyone to see on our webpage, which is different than social media. Like it's like the landing place where people go to find us. So text us, even if it's just to say, hey oh, how you doing, or something other, you know, like how awesome we are. That'd be great too. It's doctoringthetruth at buzzsprout.com. Email us your story ideas because we need your medical mishaps and your comments at Doctoringthe Truth at Gmail. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at Doctoring the Truth Podcast and on Facebook at Doctoring the Truth. We're also on TikTok at Doctoring the Truth and Ed Wod Pod. E D A U D P O D. I always feel like I'm from Boston when I'm trying to say this so that people know Ed Wod Pod. Don't forget to download, rate, and review so we can be sure to bring you more content next week. But until then, stay safe and stay suspended. It's a party. Have a good week, Alley Cats.