Ep 58-Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust: A Funeral Home Horror Story

They thought they were holding their loved one one last time, then they learned the urn held concrete. We’re walking through the Return to Nature Funeral Home scandal in Colorado, where investigators say nearly 190 bodies were left to decompose in a Penrose building while grieving families were told cremations and burials were complete. It’s one of those true crime stories that doesn’t just horrify you, it makes you re-check what you assume is regulated, inspected, and safe in the funeral industry.
Resources: 

https://www.livenowfox.com/news/former-funeral-home-owner-sentenced-18-years-prison-giving-families-fake-ashe​​ 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/colorado-ex-funeral-home-owner-sentenced-to-18-years-in-prison-after-pleading-guilty-to-fraud 

https://people.com/funeral-home-owner-sentenced-after-defrauding-grieving-families-with-fake-ashes-11927805 

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/national/2026/03/16/ex-funeral-home-owner-faces-20-in-prison-after-giving-families-fake-ashes/ 

https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/16/us/colorado-funeral-home-owner-sentenced 

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2026-03-16/ex-funeral-home-owner-faces-20-in-prison-after-giving-families-fake-ashes 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Amanda. Hello, Jenna.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

How the heck are you? I am living the dream. I was like, I was gonna say cloud nine. I was like, I don't know. I'm I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Oh, that's good. If you have to think between living the dream and which cloud you're on, you're doing pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Yeah, I'd say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Well, I'm okay. I'm a little bit like nervous because my daughter's doing her first transatlantic trip. She's winging her way to France as we speak. And I don't know, with her school. So I'm really excited for her. But also, that means I have a visitor in the house. And Wiffle goes, Yeah. So Wiffle, the South American kay. There she is. Fondly known as the monkey parrot, is going to be making commentary in the background, and there's not a whole lot I can do about it. Yeah, we love it. So there's that. Is Wiffle a boy or a girl? We don't know. There's no way to tell unless you do like a forensic analysis, and I just didn't want to violate her that way. But I feel like she's just kind of a bitchy female. Bless her heart. She's really feisty. I wondered because I said she or her.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

And then I was like, oh, I wonder how do you tell the gender of the bird?

SPEAKER_02 2:09

I just feel like because she's super feisty that she's a girl, but who knows? She'll just a little bitchy. Yeah. We love that favorite. She's total diva.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

So.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Well, welcome, Wiffle to the pod.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

We may get a cat call or two. We're lucky. She's eating her munchies right now. So a cat call. No, okay. You mean. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to be a cat to give a cat call.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

You know, I just remembered cat calling was a thing after I construct some workers. Ooh, baby.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yeah. Is what she says typically. But now that I've done that, she might start. I shouldn't have encouraged her. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

You know, I just haven't been cat called instead of a lot of people. I mean, you've been indoors being a mama.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

So, you know, next time you walk past it. Do you think I was recently before? Except I think men know their place these days, so they're less likely to express it out loud. So they were probably internal like keep that in your head, cat calls. We're trying to train them, you know.

Sponsor Correction And New Hair Care

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Sure, sure, sure, sure. I mean, I really don't leave my house pre-pregnancy either. So there's that. Uh okay. Well, welcome aboard, everybody. Happy spring. Happy winter day. You're listening to this. It's gonna be a good day. Or it already was a good day, depending on when you're listening to us. So correction section today. I thought this last time when you were reading the promo, but I was like, I don't have a brain right now because I haven't slept in 900 years. But the Cozy Earth promo is 21% off. It was like 40 something right the holiday time. All right. But I did go in like it's 21, which is still a great discount, y'all. But just don't yell at us if you go there and it's 21 and not 40, okay?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

We're trying to keep up. Jeez, the weather, you're still saying 21%. And we have a new sponsor. Ooh. Do tell.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

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SPEAKER_02 5:34

You know what? When you described it, I could just smell it. I bet it smells so good. All those essential oils and stuff. I'm gonna have to get some.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

It also like took me back to remember throwback to the obvious, this is still a brand, but was it herbal essences commercials where like yeah in the shower? Yeah. Listen out. I don't know. I was picturing that and like smelling delicious smells like you were envisioning. And this is not about herbal essences, this is about Yarek.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

So anyway, salon, you know, you just walk in and like, yes, massage my scalp.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, you just know that smell. We all deserve that. Oh my god. And like please add it my upper back too, because my son is getting heavy.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Which is good. That's so good. But wowzers have got some fine muscles in that upper back there that haven't seen uh carrying a he's almost nine pounds, or maybe he is now.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Scrolling, that's awesome. And you know, when you go around and take him to his appointments and wherever else you take him, you gotta bring his car seat and a diaper bag, and that's like ten times more than the baby himself.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, I know it's gonna pack so much stuff just to go to a simple. I had an appointment for myself yesterday, and I had to pack so much shit to take him with me. It takes so much longer to get out of the house.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I'm like, is there a baby in all of this stuff?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, and so like he has an appointment tomorrow, but it's really early in the morning, which is honestly criminal. Why do they do that? His appointment's at 7.45. Reconsider. I'm like, really, guys? Not on. The time frame for a newborn appointment should never start at 7.45. First of all. Second of all, I just started pre-planning tonight, so I'm set up for success tomorrow. Like the car seat's ready, the diaper bag's ready. Like, we just gotta grab and go. Oh, hey, Wiff, Whipple.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

You did get your cat call after all. She didn't care that you're home. I did.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Thank you, Whipple. Feeling real fine over here. Thank you. Okay, well, without further ado, because I'm just kind of a little squirrely today. Uh, we're gonna talk about some real dirt balls. This was a pretty recent case and takes place in Colorado, which I was thinking earlier, another rabbit hole here. I feel like a lot of our cases take place in Colorado, no? I mean, it it feels like it comes up a lot.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

I do feel like it does. Like we've never been to Wyoming. Yeah. To be fair, there's not a whole lot of anything to kill in Wyoming. I mean, no, we're do we talk about more than we're all. Oh, yeah, no, I I get it. Colorado might be like the medical uh the medical nefariousness compared to Florida, crazy people doing crazy things. You know how you always hear about crazy people in Florida making the news? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe Colorado's like the the medical crime capital. I mean, I'm sorry, don't come at me, Coloradans. We love Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah. I just was like, wow, I feel like we've been to Colorado a lot. And if I had more time on my hands, I would probably go back and look and make a pie graph. But maybe someday. Okay. So as always, all of my resources will be in the show notes. There's no trigger warning for this case, it just is overall gross and will make your stomach just turn.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Triggering to be. So trigger warning. It's overall really gross and your stomach's gonna turn. But you know what? You wouldn't be listening to us if you weren't prepared for some of that anyway.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

So yeah, there's that. It it will just leave you wondering and asking why. Because I'm still asking that question. So can't wait. There is the a conclusion, it's not ongoing. What let's okay, get into it. Let's do it. Okay, okay. And I don't bury the lead, is what I'm trying to say. Like, you're gonna know what's happening. Okay, I'm okay. Here we go. As of now. Yeah. So like get her an ADH pill, please.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Please, please, God. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Okay. You're so cute. You just like I'm so sorry, everybody. She's just glowing. Happy mother. And she's like, I'm about to talk about some really bad crap here. How do I get it? I know I'm about to talk about some bad shit. When I have this big beaming smile on my face. I know.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

I'm like, I don't want to ruin it talking about these creep holes again. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

You got this. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Bringing it down with all the okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

JFC. It's already been 10 minutes of me blabbing out of my butthole.

unknown 10:34

Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

You got a very finely crafted butthole, if that was all out of out of that end. I understood every word. Okay, sorry. I'm encouraging you now. I'll be quiet. Serious guys.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

I'll have to put a disclaimer at the beginning of the episode. If you don't want to listen to Amanda fucking verbal diarrhea, please fast forward to 11 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Oh, I think people appreciate we're just we're just human.

Concrete Ashes And 190 Hidden Bodies

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Okay. All right. I'm just like, we gotta bring it down. Down. They thought they were holding their loved ones one last time. Ashes in an urn, a whispered goodbye, a promise finally kept. But in a small Colorado town, those ashes were not what they seemed. They were never their mother, their fathers, or their children. They were bags of powder bought at a hardwood store. What? Not a hardwood, hardware store. What? Okay. Concrete mix and dry cement. And behind the locked doors of a building in Penrose, nearly 190 bodies lay hidden, decomposing for years while grieving families went home believing their nightmare had concluded.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

I have no words. My mouth is stuck open. What? I feel like you smacked me in the room.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

This is the creepy fucking spaghetti I was chasing.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Okay, I have so many questions. Keep going.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

This is the story of Carrie Halford, co-owner of Return to Nature Funeral Home, and one of the most disturbing betrayals of trust the funeral industry has ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

I feel like this is the story of Carrie Halford, co-owner of Return to Carrie's House, one of the most disturbing places on the planet. Oh my gosh, this is a thing? This isn't a creepy pasta. Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

You're selling us? Yeah, yeah, no, it was not. Yeah, it turned out to be a it's for real. It wasn't clickbait. It's real. The story begins with a promise: a gentler way to die. In Colorado Springs, Carrie and her then husband, John Halford, opened a business with a soothing name, Return to Nature, Funeral Home. They marketed themselves as a natural, green, more personal alternative to traditional funeral industry. They handled cremations, burials, and what's known as green or natural burial services. And green, I came to learn, meant no embalming. And boy, they weren't fucking doing that, were they?

SPEAKER_03 13:25

No.

How The Funeral Home Ran

SPEAKER_01 13:25

We're gonna get into it. Families came to them on some of the worst days of their lives, trusting that this small, back-to-nature funeral home would treat their loved ones with dignity. From the outside, nothing looked wrong. Of course it didn't. On paper, return to nature was just another funeral business in a state that already had serious gaps in regulation of funeral homes and body handling. And behind the scenes, decay was setting in literally and figuratively. Let's dive headfirst into where all of this begins. From 2019 through 2023, the Hallfords were supposed to be caring for the dead who were entrusted to them. Instead, prosecutors say they took more than$130,000 from families for funeral and cremation services that most often were not performed. Rather than cremate many of the bodies, they stored them in a separate building in Penrose, a small town outside of Colorado Springs, about an hour away. The bodies piled up, and ultimately investigators would find approximately, again, 190 human remains there, many of them already badly decomposed. Meanwhile, families were given urns, told their loved ones had been cremated. Inside the urns, not human remains. Nope. Like I said before, it was dry concrete or concrete mix. Chosen because it resembled cremated remains. In at least two cases, the wrong body was buried. Meaning even the families who did get a physical burial didn't always get the right person in the ground. Are you kidding me? Right. Think about this for a second. You plan a funeral, you pick out the urn, you gather your family, you all cry, the ashes are handed to you, and you put them on the mantle, or you scatter them somewhere meaningful, and years later you learn that your loved one never left a locked, stinking room in a metal building, and what you actually scattered was cement.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Oh my gosh.

Money Trail And Luxury Spending

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Disgusting. What was their motivation? Was it money? Lifestyle? Like me, you'll probably uh keep asking why, why, why, why, why, even after we finish this. But but we just it begs the question of how could a human being be capable of such an act and then to repeat that act over and over and over and over again. On paper, return to nature looked like a struggling small business. In reality, the Hallfords had access to almost$900,000 in pandemic relief funds on top of the money they were taking from families. Prosecutors say that a lot of that cash did not go into bettering facilities, refrigeration, or a working cremator, as Carrie and John stated that they so desperately needed. Instead, it went into luxury spending. During the years that they were stashing bodies, the Hallford spent lavishly, all while missing tax payments, getting evicted from one of their properties, and being sued for unpaid bills, according to court documents. These lavish purchases included a GMC Yukon, an Infinity, worth together, both worth over$120,000, along with$31,000 in cryptocurrency, pricey goods from stores like Gucci and Tiffany Co., and laser body sculpting, as evidenced by fake statements.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

I thought you were gonna say as evidenced by your body.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

No, no, no, we don't look and judge bodies. But hopefully you'd be able to tell that much.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah. The Penrose building. This is where the bodies were kept. It didn't scream funeral home. It was more like a warehouse. And the neighbors began noticing something was off long before the truth came out. There was the smell. People in the area reported a foul odor, something that seemed to hang in the air, especially on warm days. It wasn't the odor of a nearby farm or landfill. It was something sickly, sour, and unmistakably wrong. Investigators would later learn that some of the bodies inside dated back to 2019. So for roughly four years, remains were delivered to return to nature, death certificates were filed, families were reassured that the cremations or burials had taken place, and yet the body stayed right there in that decaying warehouse.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

What a nightmare. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Uh-huh.

unknown 18:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

But before we uh talk more about that should show, it's time for a chart. I'm still choking on the imagined smell of that warehouse.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Okay.

Chart Note On Semaglutide And Knees

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah, right, just like a thick. 190. 190. Okay. Chart note. Welcome to the chart note segment where we learn about what's happening in medicine and healthcare. Researchers recently tested semaglutide, a medicine best known for treating diabetes and obesity, to see if it could also help with osteoarthritis in the knee. They used an obesity-related arthritis model in mice and also ran a small, carefully controlled trial in people with knee osteoarthritis. In both cases, they found significant semaglutide did more than just help with weight. It seemed to directly protect the joint and support healthier cartilage. In osteoarthritis, the cartilage that cushions the end of the bones gradually breaks down, leading to pain, stiffness, and loss of function. One reason this happens is that cartilage cells become stressed and metabolically tired, relying on a less efficient way to make energy and struggling to repair damage or maintain the joint surface. The new research suggests semaglutide helps reset how these cells use energy, giving them more fuel to survive, reducing inflammation, and maintain or partially rebuild the cartilage layer. Signs of healthier cartilage structure under the microscope, suggesting more restoration rather than just slowing the damage. And lastly, reduced pain-like behavior and better joint function. Importantly, these benefits could not be explained only by weight loss. When the researchers tightly controlled diet and weight, they saw still direct protected efforts of semaglutide on the cartilage and joint environment. That's why they described the mechanism as weight loss independent and focus on metabolic restoration inside the cartilage cells. They've done a small human pilot trial so far, and people with knee osteoarthritis were randomly selected to have the semaglutide compared to a control group. And those that took the semaglutide reported less knee pain and better function on standard questionnaires. And imaging showed signs of thicker cartilage in some areas of the joint, which suggested possible regrowth or at least partial repair. Because the study I know because the study was relatively short and included a limited number of patients, the results are considered promising but preliminary. Semaglutide works by activating the GLP1 receptor, which is part of a hormone pathway involved in blood sugar control, appetite, and energy use. In the study, activating that receptor in cartilage cells appeared to switch them from low-energy stress state to a more efficient higher energy state, improving mitochondrial function and cellular resistance. With more usable energy, the cartilage cells seem better able to resist inflammatory damage, maintain cartilage matrix, and potentially contribute to repair. Taken together, the authors and outside experts see this as early but exciting evidence that semaglutide or similar GLP 1 based Drugs may one day not only be used to manage weight, but also directly treat osteoarthritis by changing how joint cells handle energy and stress. However, they also stress that larger, longer-term human trials are essential before this becomes a standard, widely recommended treatment for joint damage.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Oh, that's so promising, though. I love that when they find beneficial side effects that we didn't even conceive of. Yeah, the same thing happened to my son takes depictant for eczema, but then it was found to help with asthma and then eosinophilic esophagitis, which is when you know the motility of your esophagus is is compromised because of inflammation in little pockets or whatever. So, like all these other things that he also suffered from were treated with one injectable. So that's crazy. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

We love incidental findings like that. Rather than the commercials where it's like, if you took this drug between these days, you may be eligible. If you die, please tell your doctor compensation. Yeah. Yeah. We love a positive incidental finding. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Okay, we're back to the smelly barn.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Okay, back to the smelly barn. We have to find some chuckles throughout this. This is a disgusting case. Okay. In October 2023, after repeated complaints about the smell, law enforcement and investigators finally went inside. This is bad. What they found was no. In the words of some officials, one of the most disturbing scenes they had ever witnessed. Bodies were stacked. Some were wrapped and some were not. Remains piled so high they blocked doorways. Buckets were positioned to catch leaking fluids. There were bugs and maggots everywhere. These bodies were left to rot. The discovery shook the town and made national headlines. Colorado's funeral industry and its lack of regulation were suddenly under a harsh spotlight.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Listen, I'm just gonna interject. I don't need semaglutide to reduce my appetite. I just need to listen to this episode again. Oh my goodness gracious, and what indignity to the families of these loved ones.

Fraud Charges Pleas And Sentences

Victims Speak And Trust Shatters

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Here we are again asking ourselves, uh, why would anyone do this? Why stack bodies in a warehouse and hand out fake ashes to grieving families? Prosecutors concluded that the answer, in large part, was money. On top of the roughly 130,000 taken from the families for the funeral and cremation services that were often never performed, the Hallfords were also running the scam during the height of the pandemic. As previously mentioned, they were taking advantage of COVID-19 pandemic small business relief funds, where they obtained nearly$900,000. This money was intended to keep small businesses afloat. The funds were tied to programs like the Paycheck Protection Program under the CARES Act, and prosecutors argued the money was not used as intended. Shocking. When federal prosecutors first brought the case, it wasn't just a single fraud charge. A 2024 indictment listed 13 counts of wire fraud and two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud against both John and Carrie, tied to both client payments and the misuse of pandemic loan programs. In October of 2024, facing the stack of charges and mounting evidence, both John and Carrie agreed to plead guilty to one count each of conspiracy to commit wire fraud in federal court. That plea deal capped the federal sentencing exposure, but left judges free to go above the guideline range if they felt like the harm justified it, which is exactly what happened in Carrie's case. Carrie's role according to court filings and a federal press release was significant. She handled most of the banking, invoicing, contracts with customers, paperwork, bookkeeping, communications with the family, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. She helped prepare and file death certificates through the state's electronic system, entering the supposed method of disposition, cremation or burial, even when those services never took place. When the case finally reached sentencing, the most powerful voices in the room were not the lawyers. They were the voices of the families, as they should be. At Carrie's federal sentencing, victims stood up and described what this crime did to them. They talked about the guilt, knowing that they had failed their loved ones by choosing this funeral home. Which I'm like, don't feel like that.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Like I know why you do, but you didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

And people shouldn't be this horrible. Right. One woman, Kelly Schlesser, spoke about her mother who died in 2022 and how she now lives with the knowledge that her mom's body was among those to decompose in that Penrose building. She told the court that she regretted not giving her mother better care and that she did not accept Carrie's claims that abuse and fear, which we'll get into, explained her behavior. Explained Carrie's behavior? Uh-huh. Yeah. Carrie Carrie plays plays a card in court. Another victim, Elizabeth Gannon, told the court about trusting Return to Nature with her parents' remains in 2022 and 2023. She described ongoing trauma tied to that decision, saying Carrie knowingly took the money for her loved ones twice and knew exactly what John intended to do with the bodies. Erin Smelser and her sister Caitlin Castillo said investigators confirmed that the body of their mother, Cindy Smelzer, was among those found in the building through DNA testing. After accepting that they might not know what had ever happened to their mother, the sisters had her remains cremated and now planned to scatter the ashes. We should never have to stand here now figuring out how to mourn her all over again, Aaron said. Families described anxiety, shame, nightmares, and inability to trust institutions that were supposed to help in times of grief. It was not just financial fraud to them. It was spiritual, emotional, and deeply personal. Some of them had spread what they had thought was their loved ones' ashes, only to learn later that those ashes were only concrete. You can't redo a scattering ceremony. You can't just get those memories back and think like some people will be like, you know, oh, my mom always wanted to travel abroad to hear whatever. Let's take some of her ashes and go scatter them there.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

So it's like she like a once-in-a-lifetime trip to honor their parents' memory or whatever. Yeah. That's disgusting. That's so gross.

Abuse Claims And Judge’s Ruling

SPEAKER_01 30:05

FBI Denver special agent in charge, Amanda Koljewski, said Carrie, quote, lied and exploited families and systems to enrich her lifestyle, which absolutely, oh, with absolutely zero regard for the great harm she caused so many, end quote. For many victims, those words finally put into record what they had been feeling all along, that this wasn't a paperwork mistake. It was a choice repeated over and over again for years. In court, Carrie didn't claim that she was innocent. She did plead guilty to that one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, a federal charge that carried a maximum of 20 years in prison. Her lawyers asked for leniency because they argued that Carrie was a victim of abuse and manipulation by her ex-husband John, saying that she became, quote, another person under his control during the years that they operated the funeral home. And now I'm just gonna say, I'm not saying she was not a victim of abuse and manipulation. I'm just saying, how does your conscience not stop you from doing this?

SPEAKER_02 31:14

And usually, I mean, obviously we wanna we wanna believe women, but it it seems awfully convenient when you're using the funds for body sculpting, Carrie? It's awfully convenient to come back around again. That feels um yeah, she seems like And both can be true at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

You could have been under manipulation and abuse, but also she kind of was in control in that relationship, by the way, just from what you've described.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

But yeah, who knows?

unknown 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

And you were the one that went in the like whatever. Anyway. So Carrie decided to get a divorce after she was put back in jail at her state case in November of 2024, which put her out of reach of her husband's constant calls and texts and allowed the quote fog in her mind from the years of abuse, end quote, to lift, according to a court filing by her lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

So do we know that she was the one that decided to file for divorce? Because if I was John in this scenario, I I would probably be the one to file, right? I mean, I guess it sounds like it, but her. Well, they're both guilty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

So Carrie in court was presented as someone who was dominated and overwhelmed rather than a mastermind. They leaned hard on the story of her being in an abusive relationship. In filings, they said her ex-husband used, quote, classic instruments of domestic violence, end quote, such as threats of self-harm, intimidation, and control, threatening at times to kill himself and her, all to keep her in line. They painted her as a quote, scared and desperate mother, end quote, who was more afraid of John than the law. They claimed her actions were motivated by fear and severe anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

So I understand that these things can happen. Like in a relief, at least this is a very real and very tragic scenario of an abuse pattern, but he was using his abuse to manipulate her, threatening that he would self-harm himself and intimidate her to continue to do this fraud and inconsciable act. I mean, it wasn't just the relationship. He was he was for she's using this as a reason that she should then carry on this fraud, this business thing that she had, where people would come and trust their relatives and loved ones with her. Like, I I don't I I guess I don't I I think that's a big stretch. I don't understand how the two are intimately related, even if it's true or not true. I don't I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Yeah, I mean, I don't think we can understand people that are messed up in the head like that. But yeah, I think she just was like, Yeah, listen, I I did it. I'm guilty.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

I'm not saying I'm not guilty, but I'm just saying I only did it because because he made me run this business, plan everything, yeah. You know, make sure that it went through. Which I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

My my ex is someone who like threatened to like, oh I'm gonna go kill myself, like to me, and I know like to previous partners uh of his as well. And so, like when I read that, I was like, okay, I've sat in those shoes before, and it did make me be like, Okay, okay, you know, whatever, whatever we need to do here, like, don't kill yourself, you know. But also, nobody was asking me to commit this fraud where we're like, Yeah, I feel like I would be like, Okay, bye.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Usually it's more like, don't leave me or I'll kill myself. But it's like, don't stop this money laundering fraud you've got going on where you fool people into thinking that they're getting a service and we just actually stash the dead bodies. Like, what? I uh to me, that's a bit of a stretch. I know, right? Yeah. Oh, you know, listen, uh, don't you you need to actually take this money and go get body sculpting. I don't care, I'm gonna kill myself if you don't get body sculpting.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Like, I drive the infinity there. I swear to god. You have to have a nice car. Damn it. So this is all about appearances, keeping up with the Joneses, Carrie. But not too much because we have to look like a struggling business. Yeah. Anyway, so Carrie claimed that when the pandemic relief money came in, she pushed pushed John to spend it on essential equipment like a proper cremator. Instead, she said that he engaged in what lawyers called love bombing, making the lavish purchases with the loan money, showering her with gifts to smooth over conflict, while the underlying problems at the funeral home only grew worse. And I think everything we just said goes right back into that again. So Carrie herself did apologize in court to U.S. District Judge Nina Wang and to the families. She said that she was sorry for her actions. Said, quote, I was always trying to please a person who was impossible to please. Her defense team highlighted her lack of prior criminal record, which I'm like, I don't give a fuck. You stashed 190 bonds. I mean, there's no doubt if if And you probably like gave hugs to grieving family members, like fuck all the way off, Carrie.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

They're both disturbed people. And and even if he was a narcissist, which sounds like he probably was, as you said earlier, how could her conscience you know support her going to these extremes to placate him? Right. Yeah.

Oversight Failures And Lasting Damage

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Judge Wang did note that she read about 4,000 text messages between Carrie and John, in which she said that her ex-husband had berated and belittled her, and Carrie responded by trying to placate him. But even so, Judge Wang said that her treatment did not excuse her deceit of the funeral home's grieving customers. Thank you. But the scale of the harm was just too hard to ignore. Federal guidelines based on her background initially pointed to a maximum sentence of about eight years. Prosecutors argued that that was not enough, and they pushed for 15 years, pointing to the exploitation of the grieving families and the large number of victims, not to mention the horrific conditions of the Penrose building. In the end, Judge Wang went even higher than the prosecution's request, sentencing Carrie Halford to 18 years in federal prison. Wow. I mean Carrie's ex-husband, John, faced his own reckoning earlier. In federal court, he was sentenced in 2025 to 20 years in prison and ordered to pay more than 1 million in restitution for his role in the conspiracy and the mishandling of bodies. But the federal case was only one layer. In Colorado state court, both John and Carrie faced nearly 200 counts of corpse abuse and related offenses tied directly to how the bodies were handled. They even pled guilty, and their plea agreements required that whatever state prison time they received would run concurrently with their federal sentences. John's state case moved much faster than Carrie's. Hers is coming up, we'll talk about. He was sentenced to 40 years in state prison on top of the 20-year federal term. Wow. Yeah. So, like, I feel like they got good sentences, which is excellent. In a state hearing, John reportedly expressed regret and said that he would carry the burden of what he had done for the rest of his life. Douchebag. Carrie's path through the state system was more complicated. In late 2025, a Colorado judge rejected one proposed state plea deal for her as too lenient, reflecting just how outraged the local courts and community were by the scope of the abuse. The message from the bench was clear. And so Carrie now faces a state sentencing that is set for April 24th, which is only one month away. And yeah, she has an expected range of 25 to 35 years that she'll get also to run at that same time as her federal charge sentencing. For the victims, the symbolic weight of those numbers matter deeply. Or this case did more than put two people behind bars. It forced Colorado lawmakers to confront just how lightly regulated some parts of the funeral and bottle body handling industry were. The discovery of the nearly 200 decomposing bodies and the revelation that no one had caught this for years prompted calls for stricter inspections, licensing requirements, and better oversight. Crime is often described in dollars and years, and in this case, the numbers are stark. So let's recap together. As if you couldn't forget, about 190 bodies were mishandled and left in a warehouse. More than$130,000 was taken from families in funeral payments. Nearly$900,000 in pandemic aid was misused. And an 18-year federal sentence for Carrie and 20 years federal plus 40 years state for John. And then we'll find out what happens to Carrie next month. But numbers don't capture what it means to scatter concrete dust, believing that it's your father, your grandparent, sibling, or a child. I don't know if they were children or anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't want to know, but they don't capture the shock of learning that your mother's body was lying in a room rotting remains for months or years. When we hand our deceased loved ones to a funeral home, we're making one of the deepest acts of trust that exists. We're saying, take care of them the way that I would if I could. In Colorado, for years, John and Carrie Halford took that trust and turned it into a business model built on deceit. Those families now live with permanent uncertainty. Even when remains have been identified, the emotional damage is not something a court can undo. Federal officials used unusually strong language when they announced the sentences. U.S. attorney Peter McNeely said that he hoped victims could take some solace in the serious sentences handed down, calling the case an unequivocal condemnation of the Hallford's conduct. FBI Denver special agent Amanda Kajeski said in a release that Carrie defrauded grieving families she agreed to serve while deceiving the federal government in order to obtain benefits meant to assist businesses during the pandemic. She went on to say she denied families well-deserved dignity and showed blatant disregard for government rules. She lied and exploited families and systems to enrich her lifestyle, which up with absolutely zero regard for the great harm she caused so many. The official press release from the U.S. Attorney's Office laid out Carrie's day-to-day role, which I mentioned earlier was handling of the bookkeeping, invoices, contract, all the admin paperworky stuff. She she was the main communication with families, and she was the one that entered the method of disposition on the death certificates. So over and over and over again, those certificates said either cremation or burial, which behind closed doors remains were actually left to rot. These details matter because they show intent. That wasn't a single bad decision during a chaotic week, Carrie. It was a system running for years that relied on lying to families, lying to the government, and lying to the official record systems that most of us never even think to question. So, where do things stand now? As you know, both Carrie and John are serving their sentences, and Carrie's state sentences will come up later next month in April. Both were ordered to pay restitution over 1 million in John's case, though whether victims will ever see much of that money is an open question. I feel like that's always an open question.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Like, yeah, I mean, I feel like it's almost like meaningless. Like, yeah, you can tell someone who's in prison they owe, unless they're come into it multimillionaires, how are they gonna pay anything? Yeah, exactly. They're in prison. Yeah. It's like symbolic.

Are These Sentences Proportionate

SPEAKER_01 43:43

In the victims' cases, this monetary whatever is never gonna resolve the pain rendered from this, but right. So the work of identifying all of the remains and matching them to the families has been complex, slow, and painful. Colorado lawmakers have responded with efforts to tighten funeral home regulations, spurred in part by this scandal and previous issues in the state's death care industry. The case has become a reference point wherever people talk about oversight, licensing, and the risk of leaving businesses like this largely unchecked. The Penrose Building, once an unremarkable structure off the beaten path, now stands as a symbol of what happens when trust is abused and when the systems meant to protect the vulnerable fail. For the families who trusted Return to Nature, there is no real closure. The ceremonies they held are now touched by doubt. The urns they brought home may hold nothing more than construction material. The graves I visit may not hold the right person, but we can be thankful that the justice system has spoken. 18 years for Carrie so far and 60 total for John with federal and state charges. Even though we can be thankful that they were charged and put away, there is a deeper sentencing being served. A lifetime of grief and complicated. Let me start that sentence over. Even though we can be thankful that there were that they were charged and put away, there is a deeper sentence being served. A lifetime of grief complicated by betrayal. And that belongs to the victims. If you or someone you love has ever had to make arrangements for a funeral, you know how vulnerable those moments can be. This case is a reminder to ask questions, check licenses and reviews, and where possible, verify that the people you're trusting with your loved ones are who they claim to be.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Because they were they were putting up a front, you know. Right. So they probably had licenses, they just didn't behave in the way that they were licensed to behave. But also, I mean, this is terrible, but Wiffle agrees, she's back there groaning. This is absolutely terrible and unconscionable, but these are dead people. And and and I no disrespect, but I'm feeling like okay, you know, I feel good about the fact they had these long sentences, but I guess and maybe it's just me. I it makes me mad that when people who are alive who are physically assaulted, like i.e. raped, or guys that are like sexual offenders or pedophiles get much, much less. Yes. 60 years. He didn't murder anybody. He he did some inconsciable fraud and and disrespect to people who've passed. And and and I'm not trying to belittle the amount of grief and angst and and horribleness that this caused, but like 60 years compared to someone who can violate someone who's living and get away with a lot less. So I don't know. I'm kind of I don't I don't know how fair that is. I uh it because people need to be put away if they are a danger to society, but is he going to be a danger to society by defrauding them again? I don't know. I I I guess the the emotional aspect of your loved one who's died, who they're no longer there. They're not feeling it, the insult the family is and the memory is, but I feel like it's almost given more weight than than people who are alive and have been assaulted. Does that make sense what I'm trying to say?

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yeah, yeah. I guess I'm just shocked 60 years ago. I had similar thoughts when I saw what they were given for sentencing of like, holy shit, people that do other crimes hardly get anything. So yeah, no, I I agree. I'm glad they got this the sentences that they did because they're gross people, but no, I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Are they going to be unsafe in society? Probably not. So I guess 60 years, you know, basically you're gonna die in prison. I don't know if that's fair. I I don't know if I agree with that. Although what he did was egregious. And he was in my mind, equal partner to what was happening. Carrie wore the pants in relationship, she was in charge of all the logistics. So I don't I don't believe that she was a victim, Jenna. That that was, yeah, propagated by threat or, you know, intimate partner violence because she was very clear-headed and and calculated in how she carried out this successful business to be able to defraud 190 people. Don't get me wrong, I think these people are both gross and need to be put away. I'm just shocked that you can get 60 years for something that touched people financially, emotionally, but not physically. And, you know, meanwhile, you can go out there and murder somebody and get off for less. So I don't know how that's justice. But that's not what this episode's about. And I just appreciate you bringing this up. I don't know how I would know if I'm grieving because a loved one has died, if I'm going to go to a yeah, she's she's wiffles having her say. If I would be able to go to a funeral home and like ask the right questions to know are they the people that yeah, they they're saying they should be. I I don't know how anyone would know.

unknown 49:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

So grief stricken. She's mad. I wouldn't even be thinking about that.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Yeah, exactly. So you can see how this is it's a vulnerable a vulnerable market, and they took advantage of that, and that's disgusting. So thank you for thank you for bringing us this story and opening our eyes.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

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SPEAKER_00 50:52

And so good for his skin.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Oh, and they are perfect, these sheets, and I'm sure his sleep sack is perfect for hot sleepers seeking a restful night's sleep. They have an oversight fit and are incredibly soft that they drape right over the side of your bed and they improve with each wash, and they're just a standout in luxury bedding. You guys, you know the story. You've been hearing about it. Their pajama sets bring a touch of elegance and relaxation, and they combine style and supreme comfort for nights in, which is every night for me. So Cozy Earth's products are a favorite among celebrities. Chris Jenner praises their bamboo sheets, raving about their softness and cooling comfort. For seven consecutive years, Oprah has included Cozy Earth on her favorite things list, and the brand has been featured on Good Morning America in Style and Better Homes and Gardens. Customers echo this love with thousands of five-star reviews describing the sheets as buttery soft, and the pajamas as the ultimate cozy treat with free shipping on orders over$50, a hundred-night sleep trial, which I love, and a 10-year warranty. 10-year warranty on sheets. Wow. Cozy Earth will bring lasting luxury and comfort into your home. Find them at cozyearth.com and use our promo code stay suspicious for 21% off.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Whoop whoop.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Is it time for a minute? I think it is. I think it is.

unknown 52:26

All right.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Well, the subject line of this email is the day my heart rate was 220. Parentheses, except it wasn't, and parentheses. Oh dear. Dear Jenna and Amanda, I didn't think I was having a heart problem. I thought I was having a busy week.

unknown 52:44

Been there.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Uh work had been chaotic. I wasn't sleeping well, and had had more coffee than any human should legally be allowed to consume. So one that's a Tuesday. Yeah. That was today. So when I started feeling a little fluttery in my chest one afternoon, I did what most people do. I ignored it. But then it didn't go away. It wasn't pain. It wasn't dramatic. It was just this steady awareness that my heart was doing something. Too fast, maybe too noticeable. Like when you suddenly become aware of your own breathing, and then you can't stop thinking about it. By that evening, I downloaded one of those phone apps that measures your heart rate. I pressed my finger to the camera, waited a few seconds, and then stared at the number. 218 beats per minute. I blinked. I did it again. 221 beats per minute. That's when the calm left the room. Within 20 minutes, I was in the emergency department trying to act like a reasonable adult while also silently planning my own cardiac obituary. Well, I shouldn't laugh. The fact that the person is writing the email means that they survived this, so I can laugh. The triage nurse asked me what brought me in. I think my heart rate's over 200, I said, holding up my phone like evidence in a trial. She glanced at it and nodded politely and then put the pull socks on my finger. We both watched the monitor. 78 beats per minute. I laughed. Not because it was funny, but because I didn't know what else to do. Well, sometimes the apps can be a little off, she said, in the same tone you could use to tell someone that their horoscope isn't legally binding. But now I was committed. I felt something. The anxiety had already arrived and it wasn't leaving quietly. So they brought me back, hooked me up to a full cardiac monitor, and ran an EKG. Everything was normal. Completely, beautifully normal. The doctor came in and asked me to walk through what I'd been feeling. I told him about the fluttering, the coffee, the lack of sleep, and the app. He nodded, not dismissive, just knowing. Well, let's try something, he said. He asked me to sit quietly, breathe normally, and not check anything for a few minutes. No phone, no pulse, no monitoring my own body like a science experiment. At first, it felt impossible. The second I stopped checking, I became hyper-aware again. Every beat, every sensation, but slowly it faded. The fluttering eased, my shoulders dropped, my brain unclenched. What I had mistaken for a heart problem was mostly anxiety, amplified by caffeine, lack of sleep, and a very confident phone app. The doctor smiled gently and said, Well, your heart's been doing its job the whole time. It's just been getting a lot of attention.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

Aw, that's so cute. So sweet.

SPEAKER_02 55:59

No medications, no procedures, just a long talk about stress, sleep, and maybe reconsidering my relationship with coffee. I left the ER slightly embarrassed, very relieved, and with a new understanding of how quickly your mind can turn a small sensation into a full-blown emergency. I still have the app on my phone. I just don't trust it with my life anymore. That's an anxiety, keeping it on the phone. Yeah, right. And also, Eleanor, thank you so much for being vulnerable and giving us this insight into what can happen when things spiral and you get hyper-vigilant about something. But at the same time, we don't want to play loosey goosey with heart symptoms. So you absolutely did the right thing going in.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

You know, because I know the peer care team was really amazing.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

You know, I know people who've blown off their heart, like chest pain and stuff. Oh, it must just be heartburn. And it turned out to be not. So if in doubt, you know, go in and get that, get that pep talk from your medical team. It's better than blowing something off that might have been a serious incident. So, but you're right. As soon as you become hyper-vigilant about something, it becomes the focus and can escalate. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

So thank you for sharing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

All right, Jenna. What can we expect to hear next week?

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Okay, so I was waiting for two journalists to publish a book called Unmasking Lucy Letby. And I signed up last fall, and the book was released like last week. So I finally got this book, and I want to do this episode. And lo and behold, there's a Netflix documentary coming out at the same time. But I promise you, I've I'm just reading the book, and I've watched a couple of documentaries that came out before then. And I think this is gonna be a two pata.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

I was gonna say that this is gonna be a two pata. There's no way it can't be. The case alone. Yes, having a book and documentaries, it's a tupada.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

It's and I've watched several documentaries, but mostly it's this book. And it's it's amazing how you think you know what the story is. So those of you who don't, Lucy Leppy is a baby killer or was convicted of killing babies in the NICU. But there is so, so, so much more to this. So I hope to bring maybe a little bit of a different perspective to kind of the media sensationalism that's been going on. So part one. Yeah, we'll talk about part one next week where we talk about what she's been accused of and and then we'll go from there. Awesome. It might even be a historic three-part. No, I'll try to curb it, but yeah, I can't promise anything. But anyway, meanwhile, I don't want anyone to miss a beat. You need to subscribe or follow Doctoring the Truth wherever you enjoy your podcasts for stories that shock, intrigue, and educate. Trust, after all, is a delicate thing. You can text us directly on our website at doctoringthetruth at buzzprout.com or email us your own story ideas and comments at Doctoringthe Truth at gmail. And be sure to follow us on Instagram at Doctoring the Truth Podcast and on Facebook at Doctoring the Truth. We're on TikTok at DoctoringTheTruth and ed oddpod. And I'm thinking we should probably post a picture of Wiffle since she was a guest appearance doing numerous cat calls and cackles during today's episode. Just send me a kick. Okay, we'll do. But don't forget to download, rate, and review so we can be sure to bring you more content next week. So until then, stay safe and stay.