Ep 74-The Surgeon Who Fooled The World: Paolo Macchiarini (Part 2)

A surgeon can save your life, but a story can steal your judgment. We pick up the Paolo Macchiarini saga with the part that sounds too wild to be true: an award-winning NBC producer, Benita Alexander, falls for the “super surgeon” while making a documentary on regenerative medicine, only to discover a maze of lies that includes world-leader name-dropping and a wedding he claims the Pope will officiate. When the Vatican issues a blunt denial, the romance cracks, and the bigger question lands hard: if he can fabricate a life this easily, what else is fabricated in the operating room?

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Resources: 

1. Wikipedia — Paolo Macchiarini. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paolo_Macchiarini 

2. BBC Magazine — "The Surgeon Who Reinvented Himself" (September 2016). https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37311038 

3. Vanity Fair — "The Celebrity Surgeon Who Used Love, Money, and the Pope to Scam an NBC News Producer" (January 2016). https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/01/celebrity-surgeon-nbc-news-producer-scam 

4. Karolinska Institute — The Macchiarini Case Timeline. https://news.ki.se/news-archive/the-macchiarini-case-timeline 

5. STAT News — "A Stain Mars Karolinska Institute as It Awards the Nobel in Medicine" (October 2021). https://www.statnews.com/2021/10/04/stain-mars-karolinska-institute-awards-nobel-medicine/ 

6. For Better Science — Macchiarini's Trachea Transplant Patients: The Full List. https://forbetterscience.com/2017/06/16/macchiarinis-trachea-transplant-patients-the-full-list/ 

7. For Better Science — Claudia's Trachea. https://forbetterscience.com/2016/11/02/claudias-trachea/ 

8. For Better Science — Macchiarini's Victim's Family Sues Trachea Makers for Wrongful Death. https://forbetterscience.com/2018/05/09/macchiarinis-victims-family-sues-trachea-makers-for-wrongful-death/ 

9. LeapsMag / KU Leuven — Whistleblower Account (PDF). https://gbiomed.kuleuven.be/english/research/50000698/50489035/attachementsebook2/167-leapsmag.pdf 

10. KU Leuven — Case for Retraction (PDF). https://gbiomed.kuleuven.be/english/research/50000698/50489035/attachementsebook2/170-peter-wilmshurst-2018-case-for-retraction-of.pdf 

11. Science — "Karolinska Institute Vice-Chancellor Resigns in Wake of Macchiarini Scandal." https://www.science.org/content/article/karolinska-institute-vice-chancellor-resigns-wake-macchiarini-scandal 

12. Science — "Top Nobel Prize Administrator Resigns in Wake of Macchiarini Scandal." https://www.science.org/content/article/top-nobel-prize-administrator-resigns-wake-macchiarini-scandal 

13. Science — "Disgraced Surgeon Paolo Macchiarini, Whose Crimes Inspired an Opera, Headed to Prison." https://www.science.org/content/article/disgraced-surgeon-paolo-macchiarini-whose-crimes-inspired-opera-headed-prison 

14. BBC — "Karolinska Institute: Nobel Judges Fired Over Surgeon Scandal" (September 2016). https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37286980 

15. BBC — "Italian Surgeon Found Guilty in Sweden" (June 2022). https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61836856 

16. Reuters — "Italian Surgeon Found Guilty in Sweden Over Patients' Deaths" (June 2023). https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italian-surgeon-found-guilty-sweden-over-patients-deaths-2023-06-21/ 

17. KSAT — "Swedish Appeals Court Ups Surgeon's Sentence" (June 2023). https://www.ksat.com/news/world/2023/06/21/swedish-appeals-court-ups-surgeons-sentence-for-harm-during-experimental-windpipe-transplants/ 

18. Retraction Watch — "Misconduct Found in 7 Papers by Macchiarini" (May 2015). https://retractionwatch.com/2015/05/28/misconduct-found-in-7-papers-by-macchiarini-says-english-write-up-of-investigation/ 

19. Retraction Watch — "Meet the Filmmakers Who Cracked Open the Case Against Star Surgeon Macchiarini" (September 2016). https://retractionwatch.com/2016/09/12/meet-the-filmmakers-who-cracked-open-the-case-against-star-surgeon-macchiarini/ 

20. ABC News — "Girl Dies After Groundbreaking Trachea Transplant." https://abcnews.com/Health/girl-dies-groundbreaking-trachea-transplant/story?id=19604605 

21. EurekAlert — 2008 Surgery Announcement. https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/662066 

22. ScienceDaily — 2008 Trachea Surgery Report. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081119092939.htm 

23. Time — "Dr. Death Season 2: The True Story Behind the Show." https://time.com/6548804/dr-death-season-2-true-story/ 

24. Ara in English — "The Clinic Surgeon Known as 'Doctor Mort' Is Already Serving Sentence in Catalan Prison." https://en.ara.cat/society/the-clinic-surgeon-known-as-doctor-mort-is-already-serving-sentence-in-catalan-prison_1_5342556.html 

25. Karolinska Hospital — The Paolo Macchiarini Case Summary. https://www.karolinskahospital.com/about-us/history/the-paolo-macchiarini-case/ 

26. Nature — "Karolinska Institute Investigation Reopened." https://www.nature.com/articles/nature

Transcript

Hot Weather Banter And Updates

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Hey. I I like took in a big exhale or inhale to like do something, and then yours just kept on going.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

It's a gift that keeps giving. How you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Hi the heck are ye?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Are ye?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi. Good. You know what, y'all? Since we didn't know this was gonna be a two pata, but she was a two pata, and it should be a two powder. Wow, have I been uh busy?

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Because then I was like, what if it's not long enough to actually be a whole episode? So wowzers. I've been busy, but I've got some good stuff coming for you guys. Excuse Raven, bark, not barking, coughing.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

I can't wait. I can't wait. This is such a crazy banana case. Absolutely bananas case. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Yeah. Sorry, I just jumped in. That's my update of my life. I've just been doing that and caring for my child. Anything cool on your end?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

No, there's nothing cool. It's in fact very hot. In my rental, we have I've been spoiled with central air. I didn't realize how hard it is to exist in this kind of heat without central air. So I've got something in the wall that blows and makes one room cool. And uh sorry to my landlady if she's listening, but you know, it's a thing. And it's so noisy, I had to turn it off. So I'm gonna be in a little sweatshop here, but it's gonna be totally worth it because this case, like we said, is burners. Bananas!

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Yeah, I hate the heat for you.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

So sorry about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

But yeah, bananas, bananas, bananas.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, wait, well, so my local radio station was like, oh, this is n I've never heard this before. The weather forecast today is gonna be hot and humid, 98 degrees and smoky. Oh, yeah, I suppose. Like, great. Smokey is now a weather term.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

I'm like, is air air quality still really bad up there?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah. Yeah, it's really hazy and gross. Yeah, yeah, it's really gross. But you know, it gives us a conversation piece with all of our patients, and you know, you can always chit-chat about the weather. There's always something to complain about.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

You know, that's what us Midwesterners do the best, isn't it? Just a little jibber-jabber about the weather.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yep, for sure. For sure. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

There's always the weather. Yeah. Or we can just say that we do hay baling.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Thank you, listeners, for sending pictures of hay bales. I do, I do know what they look like, but thank you.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yes, we did get a lot of hay bale pictures. Um all of them were right. I did appreciate the ones with a very nice backdrop. Yeah, a little sunset.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

All around. Yeah, a little sunset, a little yeah. So thank you, listeners for that.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

I saw some very strong men loading square ones onto a trailer yesterday or wagon or something, and they should have listened and sent us a picture of a square one because all we got was circles.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Listeners, listen, Ellie Cats. If you have a picture of yourself or someone you know loading up a square bale, is that what they're called? I don't know. Are they rectangles? I don't know. A non-round hay bale. Share. We gotta see it. I'd like to know. We're invested.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

We are okay. Well, you know, unlike last week when you all were subjected to 14 minutes of my banter. Was that last week? Feels like last week.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Not sure. No, it's all blending together. I don't remember it being unduly long.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Well, anyway, I don't think there's any corrections. I did get a compliment on my geography skills. Yeehaw! Woo! You did. Nice. I did. So, yeah. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I guess you know what? Our sponsors are the same because I've been busy. So if you've also been busy, but you're still looking for something to give your skin a little extra love, you gotta hear about products from Love Indus. We have previously featured their luminosity dewdrops on our show before, which are a facial in a bottle. It's a lightweight serum that deeply hydrates while helping your skin look firmer, smoother, more radiant. And what makes it so unique are the ingredients which feature mugga silk from India, which is known for its strength and longevity, along with antioxidant-rich silver tips tea and

Sponsor And Quick Corrections

SPEAKER_03 5:17

ashwagonda. But you know what? Last week I came here to share with you guys, and I still need to execute this purchase, but I heard about a product from them called Freedom of Expression Line Limiter. And as I mentioned last week, why it caught my eye is because I've been off of the Botox. And it's apparently like Botox in a little tube. So I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna try it with our discount. Stay suspicious, uh, 21% at checkout. It brings it down to 68 dollars. How much is Botox? I was just gonna say, Botox is expensive. Well, yeah, you know, I used to have our ENT providers do Botox in between patients or like online, and so then I got like a discount. Um so but I think it was at least ten dollars a unit. And I typically people get about 20 units in just their forehead, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

And then you gotta pay for the provider time and go and make the appointment, whereas this is at on your own time and you're in the privacy of your home.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Yeah. Without needles, yes, yeah, and I could be totally wrong. Like typically people do 20 units in their head. I have no frickin' idea, okay?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

But listen, um, it's reach out if you have an objection, otherwise, that's what we're going with because you're the you're my resident expert.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

So I did also get comments when I said that my forehead looked like it had plow lines.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Yeah, I hope you did because you don't talk about my friend like that. You don't.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

So funny. And yeah, people said they've been enjoying our how do you call beauty, beauty product talking about it?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Beauty tips.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Listen, we have bonus. That's a bonus. We have no business in this realm, but you know, we have no business, but we have opinions.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

So you know what?

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Yeah, take it or leave it. So anyway, our non-professional beauty tips aside, if you visit loveindus.com, don't forget to use our promo code staysuspicious at checkout for 21% off of your order. And you know what? While I was reading that, I just remembered we do have a correction. Wait, so someone told me among uh you know, within all of the little claps that I got, I did get a you were saying something wrong. I do know that it is the Nobel Peace Prize. When I was reading my script, I said Nobel. Nobel Peace Prize. Listen, it's a bit of both. You know, it's a noble thing to get a Nobel Prize. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you, thank you for the feedback. I I do know it is Nobel, but thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, sometimes I just uh keep uh reading on and uh yep. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

I think that's the only one that I can remember right now. I'm sure I'll hear about it if I miss one.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Again, no trigger warnings. The story is bananas. There's no trigger warnings about the story itself. It's bananas, but the medical mishap story is very heavy, but it's important. So we did want to share it still, of course. So typically they're kind of lighthearted and like, oh, silly me, or like, oh, I forgot I drank coffee, creamer. But this this one is pretty heavy, but the listener did feel compelled to send it in. So we are going to share it. So this is your warning that it's a little heavy at the end. But the story itself is more of like a oh my god! And then for the chart note is where I did like a fluffy happy piece. Oh, there we go. Yeah, switching it up very nice. Yeah, yeah, I like that. So anyway, I guess no time like the present, hey?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

That's right, let's do it. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

I think I say that every time. No time like the present. Okay, last week we began to cover the case of Paolo Maccarini. And it turns out, you know, like I said, there's just there's just too much about this guy. It was it became a Tupada. So here we are. It's part two. Welcome. If you haven't listened to part one yet, go back and listen to episode 73. But for those of us that were there and we're back, a quick recap. So we first learned about who Paolo was, as far as his background and his career. We also learned that he uh fluffed his CV and how no one seemed to question it because why would you question a world-renowned surgeon? Who in that state, you're a world-renowned

Recap Of The Macchiarini Scandal

SPEAKER_03 9:57

surgeon, who's lying about their CV? Apparently, Paolo. We covered some of his patients that he surgically placed plastic wind pipes into their area, plastic tracheas. Where we left off with the story was that the government fired the entire board at the Karolinska Institute, where Paolo worked, because they all chose to look away from the whisperings of his lack of surgical successes, lack of clinical trials, and you know, you know, the whole skipping the animal model stuff all together.

unknown 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. In the words of Paolo, and I kid you not, this is what he said when you know, asked about the successes of a surgery. He says, Did the first kidney transplant go well? No. Did the first heart transplant go well? No. It's like, but but okay. So there were the four doctors that teamed up together to turn them in, and all that resulted in was retaliation for them. And additionally, I had shared that those four doctors had contacted Basa Linquist who aired a three-part documentary on CVT called The Experiments. I did learn more about that through continued research over the past week. So we're gonna touch more on that. And finally, I mentioned that there was another story woven through all of this. It's a story that is seriously just so bananas, so outlandish, that if you put all of this in a screenplay, it would honestly probably get rejected by a producer because it's it all just sounds too far-fetched. So that's where we're gonna start today. Woo! Can't wait. Yee! So this is the story of Benita Alexander, and it reveals something essential about who Paolo Macchiarini really was. Benita Alexander was a single mom living in New York City. She was an award-winning producer at NBC News, and her job as a journalist is to stay objective. Journalists are not to become involved with the subjects of their stories because it helps to preserve the integrity of the story. So in 2013, she was assigned to do a story on regenerative medicine, and Paolo's name kept popping up when she was looking this up online. And he seemed like a

Benita Alexander Meets The Super Surgeon

SPEAKER_03 12:14

super surgeon with a godlike status. So her task was to produce a documentary about his groundbreaking work. And the special would be called A Leap of Faith that would air on NBC in June 2014. So Benita met Paolo and, you know, she would travel his world. This was her job, like immerse herself in his world to make this documentary. See, she watched him operate, she interviewed him extensively, and then she fell in love with him. She recalls the first time meeting him. She had said that she got a feeling in her stomach like she was a little schoolgirl, and that she had to push those feelings aside and went back into work mode, producer mode. Internally, she pulled herself together and shut it down, but yeah, it didn't last for long. She was fully immersed in his world after all, and the two became smitten little kittens. Paula was, by all accounts, an extraordinary romantic partner. He was charming and attentive, and I did see that people we talked about if he was good looking last week, and people were comparing him, if you've never seen him before, to George Clooney. So if that paints a picture for people.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Um, so he was always in constant contact, texting Benita, these gushing messages all day long. He would go out of his way to make her feel loved and put in even more effort if distance kept them apart for longer periods of time. So the two were exclusive, but not really, because it had to be kept quiet until the documentary aired. And the first trip that they ever went on, Paolo had said to her, you know, I want to surprise you. So he takes her to Venice, Italy, which is arguably the most romantic city in the world.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Mm-hmm. Benita was swept off of her feet. He even began introducing her as his wife on this trip. Oh. Which was interesting. But she was smitten, so she was like, ooh, you know, little butterflies. She began to notice that he liked to be the center of attention, and he had no problem embellishing stories to maintain that attention. She said that being with him was like being on an over-the-top trip all the time, just an extravagant fairy tale. It was a life of private jets, European villas, and connections to the most powerful people on earth. He proposed to Benita while in New York for Christmas in 2013, which Benita happily accepted. And then they started discussing plans for New Year's Eve. And he said that he had to leave and was pretty ambiguous about where he was going and what secret surgeries he was going to be performing. So he eventually shared with her that she couldn't tell anyone but that he was the personal physician to celebrity clients, world leaders, and dignitaries, people that didn't want their private matters made public, and that is why he was being ambiguous. And that made sense to her, and it makes sense to me, right? And why would you question that? Among the people that he said he cared for were the Clintons, the Obamas, Vladimir Putin, Nicholas Sarkozy, the Emperor of Japan, and the Pope of Francis, just to name a few.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

So he went ahead and named them.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Oh yeah. Kim. Yeah. In text messages, he would only put their initials, but in person he was like, yeah, Emperor of Japan. Yeah. Totally his dad.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

So the story that they were producing had to pivot because there were, as we know from last week, no successful stories. Christopher Lyles and Hannah Warren had both died. Those were the two that he had done surgery on during the time of this documentary series. Um, and they had both passed away. Hannah's parents had posted a tribute on Facebook saying that, you know, Hannah's death was not in vain. And because of her death, the scientists and surgeons would learn from it and be able to learn, grow, and be better for people going forward in the future. So that is the pivot they decided to take for the story. It would become about hope in the field instead. Producers contacted Christopher Lyle's family to do an interview with Paolo, which they agreed to. And it was a very moving interview, and they even included his daughter, which he was wonderful with children, and it was a very heartfelt interview. And in that interview, Paolo said, Christopher didn't die for nothing. We have to move forward. We don't have a right to stop.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

In 2014, there was a viewing party for the documentary A Leap of Faith. After this is when Benita and Paolo made their relationship public. And by all accounts, they were the happiest couple you could be in the presence of. So in love with each other. Paolo and Benita. Or Paolo told Benita that he wanted to take over planning of the wedding. So she obviously had uh some reservations about that. And I mean, I know how much planning Adam did for our wedding. So are we really wanting to men to take us over? I don't think so. No shade on my husband. I just think like women probably usually do all that.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Well, plus, we've been probably thinking about logistics and what we want and what works a bit longer.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

So, you know, Benita said this to her friends, like, I don't know, he wants to take over plenty of the wedding. Like, what the heck? And they were like, listen, girl, these extravagant trips he takes you on, they're all surprises,

The Wedding Plan Spirals Into Fantasy

SPEAKER_03 17:52

they're amazing. It's gonna be great. Like, what could go wrong? Just let him do it. So she did. And so he had told her, you know, you'll be previewed to some of the details, but otherwise, I'm gonna take care of it all. He said he wanted a big Catholic wedding in Italy, which she questioned how that would work because she wasn't even Catholic and they had both been divorced. But, you know, Paolo, he said he'd talk to his contacts and get it sorted out in person at the Vatican. Because you know, yeah. Well, because you know, he has connections there because he was the leading cardiothoracic surgeon in Italy and had been to the Vatican several times for consultations. And then he told her, Oh, hey, wow, great news. You know what? The Pope himself is going to marry us.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

What can you imagine? What would you? I'm sorry, what would you think if your fiance said, I got the Pope to marry us? Would you be thrilled? Or would you be like, Okay, he's gonna upstage me, even if it is true.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

I would think you're joking.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Yeah, but honestly, everyone be there for the Pope, and it should be about you. I want the Pope marry. Yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

True, true, true. So, and maybe my opinion on how I would feel is colored because I know what her thought was, which was this is bullshit. And so she googled it. She was like, There's no way the Pope is gonna marry us, and so she Googled it, and in fact, the Pope marries about 20 couples a year. So she thought, holy shit. I mean, maybe I shouldn't say that. We're talking about the Pope, but yeah, holy bananas, he's gonna marry us. This is real life.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Okay, Mother Mary of God. Yeah, yeah. Say the rosary. Okay, I don't know. I'm not Catholic. Wild.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

So Paolo had rented a castle for the family and friends to stay in while they were in Italy and and he I'm sorry, just a castle.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

He just like rented a whole ass castle.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Whole castle, yes, a whole castle. Because you know what? Money's not an issue for Paolo.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

No. I mean, I'm not I'm in love with this guy at this point. I know if I didn't know who he was. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

I mean, seriously, because he seems like way too good to be true. Like, when is the other shoe gonna drop? But he's planning a wedding and he's planning it himself. So why would you not believe every single thing this person is saying to you? You've been all over the entire world with him. You're very public at this point. There's pictures online.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Like, I mean, yeah, it doesn't seem cheap. He's famous, he's yeah, been awarded things. The Nobel Peace Prize. I would have been headed.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah. Okay. He's been he's been appointed as noble, but also like I would have been head over heels just in awe of what he supposedly accomplished. Because she's not the what do you call it? Kakold, the person who's been had the wool pulled over their eyes. The entire board of whoever gives the what is it, the Karolinska Institute had wool pulled over their eyes. So it's no wonder she's being singled out in romance that she fell for this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

So they got the castle, the Pope's gonna marry them. Honestly, it just felt like a royal wedding. He said that he invited all the world leaders to attend the wedding, and it was just it was wild. So interestingly, he also invited family of those who had passed away to the wedding, which I thought was something. But Christopher Lyle's mom and sister. His patients, his family members that they got an invitation to the wedding, which they were like, holy cats, I can't believe like we're gonna be included. Like this is amazing, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

It's all part of his charm. Charms of verb, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

So I mean, they were blown away, and the wedding was set for July of 2015. So during this time, Benita made the decision that she would move her and her daughter to Barcelona to uh live with Paolo. That's where his like home base is. He's always all over the world, but his home base is in Barcelona. Um Barcelona. Barcelona. So Benita was going to quit her job of 17 years and pick up with her daughter and move to Spain. Through all the worldly trips, Benita had never seen her home. She had never once been to Barcelona with him. Every time they had planned to go to Barcelona, something came up or plans changed. So she hadn't been there yet, but she had been on video calls with him while he was in the home. He showed her, like, this is the closet, this is the pool, like this is gonna be great, right? So it's like weird that she had never been there, but it wasn't like he was hiding it. And she was in love, and the two would be joining their lives and starting. This new chapter in Spain.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

I mean, it sounds like a fairy tale.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

Honestly. Like, yeah. Benito woke up to a story in the New York Times that Paulo was being accused of medical misconduct. So naturally, she questioned him about it. Like, what in the absolute heck is this about? And you know, his excuse was when you're a pioneer in science, people get jealous and they want to take you down. That people were just trying to ruin his reputation. So Benita trusted what he told her, and then she began like fielding all these requests that he had for interviews and stuff. And then this is where the Karolinska Institute began to do their internal interviews, which we talked about last week. It's kind of interesting, these stories are woven into each other, but that's where we are in like the last week part. But as we know from last week, he was found in their internal inter investigation to be not guilty of any misconduct. And in turn, those four doctors who brought forth the concerns are the ones that got into trouble. That's awful. It's horrible. When journalists began investigating Macchiarini's claims, someone contacted the Vatican. Father Federico Lombardi, the Pope's official spokesman, issued a statement that was breathtaking in its finality. Quote, there is no personal doctor of the Pope Pope with the name Macchiarini. The Pope has surely never promised to officiate a wedding of Maccarini and does not know someone with such a name. On 11th July, the Pope was traveling in Latin America and this was on his agenda long before July. This is enough. This is enough. End quote. So if you recall, they were due to get married in July of that year,

The Vatican Denial Breaks The Spell

SPEAKER_03 24:31

2015, and people really started questioning Maccarini. So someone contacted this Vatican spokesperson and they're like, no, this is BS. And those three words finally were kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. Bonita immediately went into full investigative mode. And if you are a woman, you know what this means because we are basically CIA quality if we want to find something. Amen, sister. And she is like an investigative journalist or producer, whatever for MBC. So think of how good our skills are. Like she's top-notch, dude.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Right. Just like I'm getting to the bottom of this business.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

And she's got connections, so it makes it easier. Yeah. Yeah. So she started calling all the places he never told her to call, or in you know, go places that he said never go here. She called off the wedding and began to catch him in lie after lie after lie after lie.

unknown 25:28

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Everything had been a lie. All of it. Made up. She decided to go to Barcelona and find out why their plans just never worked out for them to go there. She said in the documentary, You'll never know a fury like a woman scorned. And I said, Hell yeah, sister. Oh yeah, sister. She went to Barcelona with two of her girlfriends and quickly learned that he had also failed to mention that he was still married to his wife in Barcelona, and he had actually never been divorced. He had multiple children living there, and he had been living a double life the entire time. She had originally planned on going like up to the door and being like, what the blah blah blah blah blah. But then she had seen like the two children running down the staircase at the home, and she was like, I can't do that with the kids there.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

But she's a good person.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yeah. You know?

unknown 26:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

And she was understandably devastated. But what happens next reveals Benita's character. When she understood the scope of the deception, she made a choice. As furious as it makes me, what he did to me and my daughter, she later said, the thought that this man who has people's lives in his hands, this is a surgeon. People could be dying because of this man, and therefore I couldn't stay silent. I couldn't crawl under the covers. I had to expose him. I just can we just snaps snaps, snaps, snaps, snaps. Whole body claps. So Benita went public and cooperated with Vanity Fair. She spoke to every single outlet that would listen, and her testimony helped crack open a wider story because the personal fraud and the professional fraud were, as she recognized, expressions of the same pathology. He fooled his patients very much the same way he fooled me, she said. They were convinced that he was the greatest hope of their loved ones surviving. The same charisma that made Karolinska overlook fabricated credentials made Benita Alexander overlook a fabricated life. The same confidence that convinced desperate patients to sign consent forms convinced a seasoned journalist to plan a wedding with the Pope.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

The con was always the same, only the stakes changed. In an email to Maccherini after the truth emerged, Benita wrote the words that could serve as an epitaph for every person he deceived. To me, to my friends and family, to the world. Congratulations. You charmed me and all of us into La La Land. I will never ever understand how you could have done this to me or to Jessie, who's her daughter. Who the hell are you and what the hell is wrong with you? So I didn't know the best place to insert this new information that I found, so I decided here is where it was gonna go. But I did want to touch quickly on Yulia Tulik, who I mentioned last week, because her story is so much larger than I had originally found. This was the man that the four doctors at Karolinska had contacted to expose Paolo. So Basa originally thought that this was all slander, but the more that he looked into it, he thought, you know, there might really be a story here. So the mother of Yulia was contacted and asked if Yulia would be willing to share more about her experiences. And her mother replied that if they wanted to speak to her, that they would have to die first

Yulia’s Surgery And The Hidden Footage

SPEAKER_03 28:56

because she was already dead. Oh. And they just they couldn't believe it. Because the last that anyone had heard about Yulia was that she was doing really well. So let's back up for a minute and discuss more about Yulia's case. Because last week, what I shared and what I had previously found was that she was someone who didn't really need the surgery, but decided to go forward anyway because she was made to believe that it would improve her quality of life. So she was from Russia, and at the time there was this lottery, so to speak, that you could win a surgery from Paolo. So she sent in this video sharing that she had been in a horrible car accident that had left her with a shattered windpipe, which resulted in a tracheostomy or a hole in the throat to help her breathe. She was otherwise healthy and a mom to a beautiful boy. She had shared in the video submission that she had been a lifelong dancer and had really missed that, and that her main concern was she just wanted to be the most present mom possible and was hopeful for a new windpipe. Oh. Well, I know. I know. Her video won the contest, and I mean, did you win? I don't know. What hindsight, right? She won the contest.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

The darts.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

And she got to have the surgery. And because it was a contest, there was a documentary made about the entire process from start to finish, and it was all filmed. So now we can fast forward back to the journalists who have contacted Julia's mom, and the mom shared that sadly she's passed away. So they began to dig deeper and found the footage from the documentary, which painted a very dark picture of Paolo. While watching, they found footage, and I mean this is like the raw footage. It's not just the documentary, right? They can see everything. The pre-edited and so there was footage of him having a phone conversation, just walking on the beach, where he admittedly knew that Andamarium BNA was not doing well. Though, by all accounts, elsewhere he said he was doing great. A great, successful surgery. They also found that prior to completing Eulia's surgery, he was informed by medical staff that the windpipe was off on measurements by three millimeters. Staff had concerns that it wouldn't work because it was the wrong size, and he literally said, I kid you not, quote, I don't give a shit. We have no other choice, end quote. And he surgically implanted that plastic windpipe anyway, even though it was not the right fit for Yulia. Post-operative endoscopy showed that the plastic had begun folding over, and she asked him if it was no good because she could hardly get any air. But she was reassured, no, no, no, everything's just fine. So Basa said, quote, she was a sacrificial lamb. You could see it from the footage, that she was in pain and suffering, just being led to her death. Oh horrific. And it was Yulia's dying wish for her mom that he'd be exposed.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Oh, bless her heart. I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Oh God, this is so and the fact that, like if this was a real thing that could work and would improve her quality of life, wonderful. But the fact that she did not even need the surgery and she did her little video submission, just wants to be the best mom she can, would love to dance again if she could, and now she's gone.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

I feel like crying right now. Oh my gosh. I feel like ugly crying right now. This is just so devastating and unnecessary, and what a waste of a beautiful life.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Well, it's time to pause for a chart note, which will hopefully lift some spirits.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

My heart's not on a whim upset.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Welcome to the chart note segment where we're going to hear about something wonderful today. Yay! Usually we learn about what's happening in medicine and healthcare. Woo-hoo! So we don't often get to share stories that feel like pure hope, but this week we have one that's truly remarkable, friends. We have 13-year-old Lucas Jelima Genova from Belgium. I know I butchered that last name. I am so sorry, Lucas. When

Chart Note A Childhood Cancer Miracle

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Lucas was just six years old, he was diagnosed with one of the deadliest forms of childhood brain cancer. His family was told that the prognosis was devastating. And like so many families facing childhood cancer, they prepared for the worst while desperately searching for anything that might help. Lucas enrolled in an experimental treatment program in France, becoming one of the many children hoping for a miracle. And at first, no one knew if the treatment would make any difference, but over time, something incredible happened. His tumor began to shrink. And then it kept shrinking, and it kept shrinking. And scan after scan brought more good news until eventually doctors couldn't find any trace of the cancer at all. Woo! Yay! Woo-woo! That's amazing. Today, Lucas is 13 years old. He's back in school, spending time with friends, and living the kind of childhood his family once feared he would never have. His doctors believe he is the first person ever to be cured of this particular terminal pediatric brain cancer, something that was once thought to be impossible. Researchers are now studying Lucas' case in hopes of understanding why his treatment works so well and whether it could one day help another child facing the same diagnosis. And while this isn't a cure that can be offered to every patient just yet, Lucas's story has given doctors and families something they haven't had in a long time, proof that even the most hopeless of diagnoses can sometimes lead to extraordinary outcomes. And after so many stories of loss and tragedy in healthcare, it's nice to be reminded that venison isn't just about heartbreak. Sometimes it's about a little boy who beat the odds and in doing so may have changed the future for countless other children.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Oh, amen. Yay. Yay! I hope it I hope it opens up, you know, possibilities for future kids with that diagnosis. Yeah, that's very prepared. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Oh, that's wonderful. Over half of his life, he's been cancer-free then. Oh. Yay! Well, I hate to inform that's the last feel-good part of this episode.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

So we have to go back into the story.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

There's your warning.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

All right, back to the story.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Justice for Paolo Macchi would come eggnizingly slow. In June 2016, Swedish police opened an involuntary manslaughter investigation covering three patients, Bienna, Lyles, and Chitir. In October 2017, the Swedish prosecution authority closed the investigation, stating that while Macarini had been negligent, quote, a crime could not be proven because the patients might have died under any other treatment, end quote.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Ugh. But that old tale. Certainly would have died if they had some random

Trials Verdicts And A Short Sentence

SPEAKER_01 36:07

piece of plastic shoved down their throat that didn't have any research behind it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Yeah, I mean, our bodies love love plastic internally, totally. The experts consulted by the prosecutor included two Gothenburg surgeons who were themselves later found guilty of research misconduct. So that's nice. So there you go. Yeah. So there's that. The case just seemed dead. And for the families, it was a second betrayal, first by the surgeon and then by the system. Yeah. But in December 2018, a new prosecutor, Mikhail Bjerk, reopened the investigation. This time, the charge was not manslaughter, it was aggravated assault. The legal theory had shifted, and the question was no longer whether Macchiarini had intended to kill the patients, but whether he had knowingly subjected them to procedures that caused grievous bodily harm. Yeah. Yeah. So now we're in September of 2020, and Bjork announced the indictment. Macchiarini would stand trial for aggravated assaults in connection with the surgeries on Biene, Lyles, and Chatir. The trial was held in Solna District Court, Stockholm, over 13 days in April and May 2022. Macchiarini denied all wrongdoing, of course. And he argued that the transplant were aimed at saving the patients' lives, and he maintained he could not intend to harm anyone. He's a doctor, after all. He's not out there to harm people, you guys. On June 16th, 2022, the district court convicted him on one count of causing bodily harm, but acquitted him on the other two of the three accounts of aggravated assault, finding that criminal attempt had not been proven. The penalty was a suspended sentence, no prison time.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

As frustrating as that is, I do understand how it would be difficult to prove unless you know about the scientific process that goes back farther than this. It's like he shouldn't have been allowed to be doing these things to begin with, because they weren't scientifically valid procedures. But yeah, to prove intent of causing bodily harm would be super hard. So they're asking the wrong questions. You know what I mean? Like he he was intentionally negligent. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, I'll be quiet for now.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

You sharing that thought reminded me of this interview that I was watching. And he had said to this TV producer when they were kind of probing him, like, did you know? Did you know? You know? And he goes, Paolo goes to this interviewer. Well, you're a TV producer, right? So how could you possibly understand medical theory or like medical science? Like, obviously, you don't understand. So, like, I'm not here to explain it to you.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

So arrogant. Oh my god, he's so arrogant. What an ass. Can you imagine being one of his patients?

SPEAKER_03 39:03

Ugh. Well, he was so charming to everybody until he thought he was gonna get in trouble.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Yeah, or until you question question him, right? If yeah, imagine your patient that questioned him, mm-mm. Ugh. Narcissist to the nth degree. And he got no prison time.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Mm-mm. At this point. Okay. Well, yeah, at this point. So for the whistleblowers and the families, and for anyone who had followed the case for a decade at this point, the verdict was absolutely crushing. A man whose procedures had killed at least 17 patients would not spend a single day in prison. Prosecutors began appeals, and the Court of Appeals heard the case over seven days in April of 2023, and this time the outcome was different. So in June 2023, Judge Maria Holkey delivered the ruling, and the appeals court reversed the district court on all three acquittals. Maccherini was found guilty on three counts of aggravated assaults. And while this is great, while this is great, the sentencing left everyone disappointed. The sentence two years and six months in prison.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

What? That's it! Two years and six months for taking lives intentionally?

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Oh my god. So the reasoning for the shorter sentence was this the judge determined that the patients could have lived for a not insignificant amount of time without the interventions. Okay. So they found that Macchiarini had acted with intent or indifference, and that he realized the risk of interventions would cause the patients bodily harm and suffering, and that he, even though he has had a hope that the method would work, has been indifferent to the risks realization. The court made clear his acts were not impulsive actions but planned interventions, and there has thus been room for consideration. He attempted an appeal, but the court declined to hear the case, and therefore his sentence was final. I'm like, dude, you got two and a half years, like fucking boohoo.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Oh, okay. So they're saying he didn't act with malicious intent, but he acted with indifference. That's that's really interesting. I don't know if I've ever heard a case like that before. Because to me, acting with indifference, because you just want to promote your name and get these surgeries out there and say you're the hero, is malicious intent. You know what I mean? But they've separated it. Like he didn't plan to kill them, he just did this even though it wasn't scientifically proven and likely to fail. It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Because, like a reporter had said, you know, he thought the whole thing was slander at one point. Like this one reporter had said, he thought everything was just slander at this point. And he was like, you know, if this guy truly is a pioneer, like, yeah, it's not gonna work probably right away. And then, you know, you fix the errors and and whatever, and then maybe it becomes more successful. And I was like, Yeah, I'm on board with that, you know, until we learn things like you just knowingly still did the surgical placement in Yulia, even though you knew it was the wrong size, which caused it to fold over and then she could hardly breathe. Like an aeroid's not that big.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

And yeah, so if I think earlier they compared to like cardiac, like heart transplants and kidney transplants, but they had done rigorous studies on animals before they brought this to humans. There was none of that here. The humans were the guinea pigs.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he lied and said everyone was doing so great, even though they weren't. He did not do one trial on an animal.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

And although he had said, you know, because he knew that people wouldn't have access to like what he did in Russia, even though he did nothing in Russia, they were like, Well, you didn't even do animal models. And he's like, Well, how do you know what I've done and what I haven't done? You've only looked here. Well, I've been in Russia, I've been here, I've been there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

It's so crazy.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Okay, we're not even there yet. Okay. So, you know, he's filing for appeals, blah, blah, blah. He did also request a service sentence under house arrest, but that was denied. Thank God. Yeah, yeah. Because he had been living in Spain, Swedish authorities arranged for him to serve his sentence there. So in June 2024, Spain's central criminal court in Madrid approved the transfer, and in September of 24, he entered the Catre Cummins prison in Catalona. Wait. Catalonia. Mm-hmm. Catalonia?

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Catalonia. Is Catalona a place somewhere else? Yes. Catilian Spanish is when they they all the S's are th. So they're Catilian. So it sounds like they have a lisp.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Hey, you know what? Everyone that gave me props on my geography and whatever last week, sorry, I I have to hand my badge back over.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

No, you don't. I mean, we're learning as we go.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

All of us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's easier when we're talking about Colorado. Right. So in Italy, separate legal proceedings related to. His time at the Florentine hospitals remain ongoing. For him to be held accountable for his entire career, honestly, would just take so much time. But some things are still ongoing, so that's good. It would be more comfortable to treat Paolo as a uniquely evil man who slipped through the cracks of an otherwise functioning system. But as we've covered time and time again, that's not the case. That's why we have a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

And why the stories keep coming. Yep. The first failure, in my opinion, was that he was worshipped. He wasn't just a doctor, he was a brand. And not only that, he was multilingual, confident, and by many accounts a handsome man. He gave TED-style performances in large theaters, and he understood that modern medicine is as much about narrative as it is about evidence. The world's first surgery, the miracle scaffold, the revolution in regenerative

How Systems Enable Medical Fraud

SPEAKER_03 45:37

medicine. Every procedure was a story, and every story was designed to make him the hero. End quote. Macchi, Dietz concluded, was the extreme form of con man. The lesson is an uncomfortable one. Charisma is not a qualification, and confidence is not competence. A surgeon who gives great press conferences is not necessarily a surgeon who gives great surgery. The Lancet, which is one of the most respective scientific journals in the world, published Maccarini's fabricated results. Co-authors signed papers containing data they could not verify. Peer reviewers passed studies in a field so new that deep expertise barely existed. When the Gerden report found misconduct in 2015, the Lancet added only an expression of concern rather than retracting the papers altogether. The 2008 Castillo paper and the 2013 follow-up were not formally retracted until October of 23, which was 15 years after publication. And for those 15 years, the papers sat in the literature, cited by other researchers, used to justify further procedures, used to secure FDA approval for Hannah Warren surgery, and on and on and on. The peer review system is supposed to be the science's immune system, but I guess in this case it was uh asleep.

unknown 47:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:17

There were also institutional conflicts of interest. Karolinska had every reason not to investigate Makarini and no structural incentive to do so. He brought global prestige, attracted grants, and his work reinforced Karolinska's team. Karolinska's claim to cutting-edge research. The people who hired him, including the Nobel Assembly Secretary General, had personal stakes in his success. Any admission of misconduct would imply institutional failure, and so a formal, external finding of scientific misconduct was overruled by the institution it was supposed to correct. This was not an oversight, it was an absolute choice. It was a choice to protect institutional reputation at the cost of patients' lives. Underline, underline, underline. Yeah. And I also very much dislike the whistleblower retaliation situation. It's chilling that telling the story or the truth can destroy a person. Those four doctors did everything right. They documented meticulously, they reported through the proper channels, and they invested years of their lives and their careers. And the institution turned on them altogether. They accused them of crimes, subjected them to investigations, and damaged their professional standing. And I just cannot.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:35

We filed the complaint to stop the dangerous operations, Grenamo said. We were not against the hospital, but the way they handled the situation was a form of misconduct in a way. They didn't listen to our warnings. Macchiarini continued to do his work, end quote. The chilling effect of this on future whistleblowers is immeasurable. Every doctor who sees something wrong and considers speaking up will now think about what happened at the Karolinska Institute of the uh Karolinska 4, they're called now. Some of them will stay silent, and it will be the patients who will ultimately pay the price. The most fundamental violation patients were lied to. They were told that they had no other options when they did. Informed consent was obtained through one investigation document called deliberate misinformation. Surgeries were classified as emergency procedures to bypass ethical review when the patients were not in immediate danger of death. No ethics board approval was ever sought for the synthetic trachea procedures. Yel Asplund, chairman of the Swedish Council on Medical Ethics, concluded in his investigation, quote, it is unlikely that the product project would have been approved by an ethics board, end quote. The patients trusted the system, and the system failed them at every single level. The surgeon who lied to them, the institution that covered it up, the journals that published, the regulators who approved, and the colleagues who looked away. As of today, Paolo Maccarini is serving his two and a half year sentence at Coutri Commines in Spain. Under Swedish parole rules, he will be eligible for release after serving approximately two-thirds of his sentence. Italian legal proceedings remain pending. The Lancet retracted his papers in October of 23. The Kerolinskit Institute has undergone significant reforms, and those four whistleblowing doctors have been publicly vindicated, though the personal and professional costs they paid honestly could never be fully recovered. The families of the patients have received no compensation. The 17 who died are still dead. The children who lost parents, the parents who lost their child, their grief is permanent and ongoing. And the questions raised by this case have not been answered. Not really. I mean, how do we prevent the next Paolo Maccarini? How do we build institutions that are capable of self-correction? How do we protect whistleblowers? And how do we ensure that desperate patients are not exploited by charismatic doctors selling false hope? These sadly aren't abstract questions. I'm sure that somewhere right now a surgeon is presenting data that looks way too good to be true, and somewhere right now a patient is being told that they have no other options, and also sadly, somewhere a colleague is noticing discrepancies, but probably wondering whether it's worth the risk to speak up. Paolo Maccarini called himself a pioneer. His patients called him a savior. The Swedish court called him a criminal. Perhaps the truest description came from Pierre Delaire, the Belgian surgeon who spent years trying to sound the alarm. But Maccarini sold the world was, quote, one of the biggest lies in medical history. End quote.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Wow. Oh my goodness. You know, this was, I can't listen, this was such a big case to cover that the fact that you did such a wonderful job in in two episodes is kudos to you. Like thank you. And we still got to hear about all of the layers to this story. This guy, narcissist to the nth degree, grant a sense of uh grandiose sense of self, just the charm to just put his his claims out there and be adored. He didn't care if his stuff worked, he cared that he was the first, the only, the savior, the this, the that. And beyond him, he was one man. So the fact that this happened calls to all the flaws in the system, right? Because there should be, there were boards, there were medical boards, there were patient outcomes, there were hospital data that you know, it all just kept being put aside because who could question a Nobel laureate, a a cutting-edge researcher? So I hope to God that we've learned from this. I mean, I remember we I wanted to do a retrospective study on patients that had nothing to do with like actually doing anything to them. It was like looking at their past records and putting data together to determine, like, you know, what are the characteristics of a certain disease and you know, what were the interventions, what worked, what didn't. And that that had to go through a very rigorous process to determine that it was ethical and that it was no harm to the patients. How did this guy get off going, you know what? I got it, I got a plastic tube, I'm gonna paint it with some stem cells, I'm gonna shove it in there. Like I know, I hope, I hope to God that we are beyond that now. But this was not that long ago. I know 2014. Yeah, it was not that long ago, and that's just gives credence to his, as we say, charm is a verb, his narcissistic charm that's available to manipulate people for his own self-purpose, his own self-serving. Can you imagine and also like on a different level? Like the patience was the biggest harm, right? But this reporter, can you can you imagine you're totally swept off your feet, you're romanced, Pope is gonna marry you, maybe? But you know, you know, this guy is like renting a palace and he's got all of these things, and then you pitch up to his home in Bartholona, Bartholomew, hello, wifey, like oh my god. So on a more salacious level, it's like what an asshole for that, too.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Yeah, yeah. I honestly think, and probably had a ton of relationships, right? There was just some so much more I wanted to put in here. If you guys want to look into this guy, there's so much more. But I honestly think he had another wife. Maybe not a wife. No, no, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Another wife, I wouldn't move past him.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

Yeah, listen to just really fast, you guys. There was another woman, and I shit you not. She was the mother of one of his patients who died. And he charmed her, probably, so she wouldn't say anything, or like, because he was they were trying to get him in trouble, and she's like, No, no, no, no, you know, whatever. Probably he would have died. You know, whatever. Okay, so charmed, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:35

I wouldn't put it past him.

SPEAKER_03 55:37

The two ended up pregnant, had a baby girl together. And yes. And so then when all this started coming out, she was like, What the helly? And she was like, Oh my gosh, I remember he flew me to New York one time, and like we had this amazing time in New York, and then after that, he was like, You need to go to your hotel room, and then like ended up having to fly her home the next day, and then they didn't do anything else in New York. And she was like, frickin' probably, because he was with Benita.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Oh, this guy deserves a special place in hell. And the fact that his sentence was so short and sweet, like, dude, I just hope that you know I like to say karma-wise, I hope you get the day that you deserve. And I hope that day involves stepping on Lego with bare feet, ingrown toenails, horrible heartburn that keeps you up all night. Like, I don't know, like, dude, you ruined people's lives. You talked people in who were making progress and surviving and alive into having some surgery that you invented without the proper backing and the proper research to actually figure out that it worked. I mean, I think the people was it two people that survived out of 20. It was an accident that they survived. One. Yeah. So this is like that one person was a miracle. This was not this one person survived in spite of what he did to them.

SPEAKER_03 57:07

Yeah. I do believe that last week I might have reported two, but then on the research I found today, it says that there's only one surviving patient, and that is because they had the windpipe or the trick robe removed.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Oh, conflicting data. Okay. So 100% failure rate.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

You're only alive because you and he went on to continue to ruin lives. Yeah. Take people, kill them, and seduce women and seduce the public into thinking he's some hero. Well, to me, this is one of the most evil people we've talked about.

SPEAKER_03 57:41

I didn't even, I was telling Jenna before we started this. I didn't even know what I was getting into. I was like, oh, okay. I was like, oh my god. Yeah, well done.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Yeah. I know. I was like, you did pallo macchiarini. I'm putting that off because yeah, you did a good job. You did a good job.

SPEAKER_03 57:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

It definitely had to be at least two. It could have been three, but yeah, it had to be at least two.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Who wants to sit in that for too long? Because this guy's unbelievably horrible. But well done. No. Well done. Fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Thank you. Um, well, you know that sweet tooth I talked about last week? Still have it. In fact, my husband and I went and bought a large tub of cookie dough, and I'm embarrassed to say how much of we've eaten. So speaking of cookies, though. If you've been feeling the same and you're craving some cookies, you can go ahead and search up Molly B's gourmet cookies. That's Molly B Z's. She brings smat small batch artesian cookies right to your doorstep. And these aren't your average cookies, guys. They are handcrafted with high quality ingredients, incredible textures, and some seriously creative flavor combinations. You can ask Jenna for her own recommendations because she has had these delivered to her doorstep.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

But you know what's really funny? I didn't know you were doing this sponsor today, and I had ordered some more Earl Grey cookies, earl great tea cookies, and they're like lavender and lemon with like little boba,

Cookie Sponsor And A Sweet Detour

SPEAKER_01 59:12

what do you call those boba pearl pearls lemon in them? And they're like little mini shortbreads. Ah, I had that this afternoon for my little snack, my little pick me up. So yeah, good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 59:27

Good stuff. And I stuffed about a cup of cookie dough, so it would have been easy for me to have some Malibees cookies.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

I gotta get on the Molly Bees.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

Every bite is a mouthful of like a flavor explosion, I will say. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

Ugh. Ugh. I like the lemon, the lemon glaze part or like the lemon explosion. Sounds like that part sounds so good to me.

SPEAKER_01 59:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

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SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Is it time for a medical miss?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

Medical miss! Yes, but remember it's heavy.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

The subject line is please label the bottle. Hey Jenna and Amanda, I've started this email more times than I can count. I've typed it, deleted it, cried over it, and convinced myself that I wasn't ready to share. Maybe I'm still not, but I've listened to enough episodes of your podcast to know that sometimes the hardest stories are the ones that need to be told the most. This isn't a funny medical mishap and it doesn't have a happy ending. There isn't a twist where everyone laughs afterwards because it all worked out. The only reason I'm sharing is because if one person hears the story and changes one thing

Medical Mishap A Label That Never Came

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

in their home, then maybe my wife's death won't feel quite so meaningless. Even writing that sentence doesn't feel real.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

I have chills.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:19

A little over a year ago, my wife died because of a bottle that should have been labeled. For years, my wife had occasionally used a diluted hydrogen peroxide mouth rinse. It wasn't an everyday thing, but often enough that reaching for the bottle had become second nature. We kept the regular 3% hydrogen peroxide under the bathroom sink, and it was just part of our routine. Around the same time, I had purchased a much more concentrated hydrogen peroxide solution for a project I was working on in the garage. I won't even mention what the project was because it honestly doesn't matter. But what matters is that I made a decision that I've replayed in my head every single day since. The original container was bulky and awkward, so I poured some of it into a smaller bottle. I told myself it was temporary. I told myself, I'll label it later. But later never came. One morning I was getting ready for work when I heard my wife yell my name from the bathroom. At first I didn't hear the panic in her voice, just confusion. And when I got there, she kept saying, something's wrong. She'd only taken a small amount under her mouth before immediately realizing it wasn't right. She spit it out almost instantly, but she was in incredible pain. She kept saying it burned and that something was terribly wrong. I remember her grabbing the bottle and feeling my stomach drop before my brain even caught up. I knew exactly what had happened. I don't even remember dialing 911. I don't even remember what I said to the dispatcher, but I just remember following the ambulance to the hospital and telling myself over and over, oh, we had caught it quickly. She hadn't swallowed much. People accidentally ingest things all the time and they end up okay. And I clung to those thoughts because the alternative was unbearable. The emergency department moved incredibly fast. There were doctors, nurses, and specialists, more people than I could keep track of. And every time someone walked into the room, I convinced myself that they had a plan. For a while, I actually believed she was gonna make it. She didn't. What I do remember is someone gently telling me that the concentration of hydrogen peroxide had caused devastating injuries and complications that they couldn't reverse. I've spent the last year asking myself the same question. Why didn't I just label the bottle? I've blamed myself every day since. I'm in therapy now, and my therapist reminds me constantly that guilt and responsibility are not always the same thing. Some days I believe her, and most days I don't. The reason I'm writing this isn't because I need sympathy, it's because I need people to hear this. If you transfer chemicals into another container, label it immediately. If something isn't meant to be ingested, don't store it anywhere near products that are. Don't assume you'll remember later, and don't assume someone else will know the difference. Our brains run on habit far more than we realize, and habit doesn't stop to double-check labels when you're rushing through an ordinary Tuesday morning. I would give anything to go back and spend 30 seconds writing on that bottle with a permanent marker. 30 seconds. That's all it would have taken. Thank you for reading this, even though I know it's heavier than your mishap stories normally are. And I hope, if nothing else, it encourages someone to walk into their garage, basement, or utility room today and label those bottles that they've been meaning to get around to. Take care of yourselves and each other. Sincerely, a husband learning that some mistakes can't be undone.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:22

So thank you for your bravery in sending that in. I am so sorry to hear about your wife.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

I I I can't imagine. I mean, first of all, yeah, I mean it's it's the same ingredient that she uses, it's just a different dose. But yeah, we don't know how things will react with people. It's understandable that you blame yourself, but I think it's one of these accidental, horrible tragedies that can happen and that you need to give yourself grace, and that the silver lining is that you're sharing your story so that other people can learn from that. And I just hope that you are getting some peace and and being able to come to terms from this.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

And think about how many people you may have saved by sharing this story.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:20

If we have to find a silver line and tragedy.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

Yeah. I can't imagine. I I'm so sorry for your loss. And I just hope you get comfort from sharing this story that it's a little bit a little less heavy having shared the story. And like Amanda said, that you are helping others through the knowledge of you know how important this information is, because it's not something we think about, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

I wouldn't have thought No, and I can't tell you how many times I'm like, I'll just I'll do it later. I'll do it later.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:54

And when I think about it, I say, I'll do it later. We've all been there.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

So thank you for sending this in.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:02

Yeah. Well, Jenna, what can we hear next week?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Well, next week we're gonna hear about the case that uh a listener had originally proposed that I talk about when I found another nefarious topic that I thought she was mentioning. So it's another psychiatrist at the University of Minnesota around the same time period and completely different set of activity that is remarkably awful. So y'all wanna definitely tune in to hear this one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

Great.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

Great, but meanwhile, don't miss a beat.

Next Week Tease And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

Subscribe or follow Doctoring the Truth wherever you enjoy your podcast for stories that shock, intrigue, and educate. Trust, after all, is a delicate thing. You can text us directly. You can text us directly. You can text us directly on our website at doctoringthetruth at budsprout.com. Email us your own story ideas and comments because we do take those. And a lot of these cases have been recommended by listeners. So if you want to email us your story ideas, it's doctoringthe truth at gmail. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Doctoring the Truth Podcast and on Facebook at Doctoring the Truth. We're also on TikTok at Doctoring the Truth and ed oddpot. Don't forget to download, rate, and review so we can be sure to bring you more content next week. Until then, stay safe and stay subspa. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Goodbye, I'm just thinking, like, well, all my all my old co workers probably miss me so much. Miss None. Probably not. Okay, bye.