Thrive & Decide Guide to Divorce and Beyond

Navigating a Tumultuous Divorce: Embracing Courage, Co-Parenting, and Mental Health Awareness

• Sarah Thress • Season 1 • Episode 3

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What happens when the person you thought you knew suddenly becomes a stranger, and how do you protect your family amidst such upheaval? Join us on Thrive and Decide as Jennifer Jenkins bravely shares her gripping story of navigating a tumultuous divorce, fueled by her husband's unexpected paranoia and erratic behavior. As she recounts the red flags she initially overlooked, Jennifer speaks candidly about the pivotal role therapy played in piecing together the puzzle of her past. Her narrative is a testament to the critical importance of acknowledging mental health and substance abuse issues while finding the courage to forge a healthier path for herself and her children.

Co-parenting in the aftermath of a difficult divorce presents its own set of unique challenges, especially when the other parent chooses minimal involvement. Jennifer opens up about the emotional toll of raising empathetic and independent children amid parental conflict and the heightened sense of isolation she experienced due to her young age and lack of a supportive peer group. We explore the resilience needed to maintain stability for the children and the vital, albeit limited, support systems that played a crucial role in their lives. Jennifer's story is not just about enduring hardship but also about the strength required to rebuild and thrive for the sake of her family.

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.


Sarah Thress
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sarah :

Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide. This week we are talking with Jennifer Jenkins, and she is someone that I am partnering with on creating the Thrive and Decide program of a divorce or the loss of a spouse. Our intention is to help women come out on the other side financially stable, but also just kind of mentally stable, ready for that next adventure, that next chapter in life. So I asked Jennifer to come on and just kind of explain, share her story of divorce, because I truly feel if we are all open and talking about our experiences, it normalizes the feelings you're having, the things you're going through, and also you, you know, will probably learn something that can help you in your journey as well. So thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.

jennifer:

Oh, thanks for having me. It's good to do this. I'm excited to help other women, so yeah.

sarah :

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Um. So I know you know a little bit um about your story, but I'd love for you to share, you know, like I said, as much or as little as you feel comfortable with, but just you know, obviously you were, you were married, um, and then, and then you weren't, so, um, you know. So I'll let you just kind of share, uh, you know your experience, your journey, um, and you know what it looks like now.

jennifer:

Yeah, so I got married um a while ago. Um, so I've been divorced now for 10 years. Um, so when I was, I met him at work and then we had two daughters and he had a daughter from a previous relationship. Um, and everything was great. He was a really good dad. Um, there were obviously red flags that I kind of ignored or didn't see. I went to therapy later and my therapist later told me it was because I had a relationship with my mom that didn't allow me to see them, because she was the same way. Basically, so good to know, therapy is great, it's very insightful.

jennifer:

But anyway, he started acting really weird. Um, and by weird I mean he became super paranoid. Um, he stopped sort of showing up to work, at least on time, to the point where he got fired and it kind of spiraled from there where he was just home all day. Um, I was a stay-at-home mom and I had just gotten back into work and so I was still taking the kids to daycare and he was like, not looking for a job, he wasn't doing anything at the house, he was just sleeping all day and then at night he was awake and I don't know what he was doing, but his behavior got really weird and then he started accusing me of cheating on him with any male co-worker I had and I used to work in human resources, so there weren't a lot of men in that department and so it was literally like the five men in the department.

jennifer:

He accused me of sleeping with all of them and her neighbor and like an ex-boyfriend that he knew it was getting crazy, boyfriend that he knew, um, it was, it was getting crazy. Um, and he was, he started like just doing weird things, like he was cutting up my underwear for testing, like literally was like testing for like other men's stuff, yeah, um, yeah, and like just, and he was setting up secret cameras in the house to like watch me. It was so crazy. So I I thought he was having some kind of mental breakdown because he had an aunt who did kill herself before I ever met him.

jennifer:

So I was a little concerned because he was getting to that age where, like you know, I started researching and he had hit that age where, like schizophrenia can kick in and things like that. And so I was like, is something going on? So I, you know, I had my daughters at the time were like three and one, and so I moved out for a little bit and moved in with my parents, like trying to like get him to get help, trying to get him to, like you know, just calm down. And the entire time I had moved out, he was emailing me all day and all night.

sarah :

I don't think he was sleeping.

jennifer:

He was texting me all the time. If I didn't answer right away it's because I was out having an affair somewhere and I'm like literally in my mom mom's house, my mom's like looking at me and I'm like, apparently I'm, you know, busy right now. So, um, and then it kind of got better. Like he told me he was going to see a therapist. I actually don't know if he went or not, but his behavior calmed down. So I was like, okay, so it was like getting around to be my oldest daughter's birthday, her fourth birthday, and um, it was also Christmas time. So I was like, okay, we'll try again, like I'll move back and I'll see if I can like help him. And it just got progressively worse to the point where I moved out permanently in March.

jennifer:

Um, during that time he emailed. He was emailing me complete nonsense. Like some of the emails you couldn't even like comprehend what he was trying to say and I pieced together. He said something about he had started doing bath salts, which I didn't know what they were at the time because it was kind of new back then. And um, I was like, ooh, why would you eat things like you put in the bathtub? Like I literally didn't know back then and I was like, ew, why would you eat things like you put in the bathtub, like I literally didn't know. And my co-worker was like they're drugs, you idiot. And I was like, oh, so that's how I figured all that. So I was like, okay, well, that explains some things.

jennifer:

He I when I went to like go move some stuff out, he became physically violent. When I went to like go move some stuff out, he became physically violent just the one time I had gone over there by myself and I was picking up some boxes and he again was accusing me of cheating on him and he was screaming at me and I started recording it because I was at this point trying to keep track for the police, because he'd also shown up at my parents' house in the middle of the night and banged on the door Like he was just harassing me, right. So I was started recording it and he snatched my phone from my hand and I tried to get it back from him and he grabbed me by my hair and yanked me up the stairs. I screamed at the top of my lungs, even though it didn't like really hurt. I screamed because our windows were open at the time and I knew my neighbors would were outside. So he dropped my phone.

jennifer:

I ran outside, locked myself in my car, called the police, called my mom, and the police came and in that time he had taken some like picture frames that I had and he had smashed them and then cut himself with a glass and he told the cops that I did that to him. So the cops were like we can either take you both in or nobody. And I was like this is awesome, like amazing, I love this. So I didn't press charges because I didn't want to go to jail. Um, and I just never. I refused to go there by myself ever again.

jennifer:

And then one time he pulled, like I went there with my dad for the last haul of my things and, um, I had to like we had to work out a time. At this point we were in court and they were like you have to let her come get her stuff. Like schedule a time. So we scheduled a time. I got a moving truck.

jennifer:

You know my dad was coming to help me and he, at the very last minute, was like you can't come, I'm not at the house. And I was like, well, I can we have this scheduled, like I'll call the police and show up if I have to like I was on the mortgage, I can come if I want. So I called the cops and they were like yeah, if you want to break in, break in, because he had changed all the locks and everything. Um. And they were like if you need us to come, we'll come, but you know, if you don't, we prefer not to. And I was like fair. So I broke a window and he came full. He told me I wasn't home. He came flying out the door with a gun and like threatened to shoot me and my dad and I was like this, I just can't. So he didn't.

sarah :

I can't even make this shit up, yeah like it was.

jennifer:

It was a time, yeah, so, yeah. So that happened. Um event like so I had to move out and like I wasn't gonna pay our mortgage because he was living there and I'm like, what am I paying it for? So eventually they foreclosed because he stopped paying all his bills. Um, you know, we went through the divorce which he dragged out because he wasn't gonna show up to court. He had to move back to Michigan, which is where he's from, to live with his parents because he had no job and now he had no house and you know, he didn't see the girls for a long time for, I want to say, at least six months. We had no contact from him and part of that was when I filed for divorce.

jennifer:

There's that like restraining order, that's like sort of connected to it and for whatever reason he thought that meant he couldn't contact me about the girls at all. I don't remember exactly, but it was something like that. So he had no contact with them. And then, you know, when he did decide he wanted visitation, we had to. We were still like in the divorce process because he wasn't showing up. He I forgot what I was gonna say. I can't remember. Oh he.

jennifer:

So he started like the visitation and I made it like a stipulation that if he was going to start spending time with him he would have to build that up.

jennifer:

So, because he's out of state, he got like one weekend a month essentially. And then then in the summer it was supposed to be half the summer and I asked that it be split into like two weeks at a time when we originally went through it. And then, because he had not exercised any visitation, I was like, look, before he takes them for half a summer, he has got to like see them. Like he is a stranger, especially to my now two-year-old who hasn't seen him in like a year. So it was kind of a whole thing. Um, and he didn't really exercise his visitation. He would do it like maybe every other month, and a couple of months would go by, and then you wouldn't hear from him, and then he'd be consistent, and then it just wasn't so by the time we got to the summer again I was like, hey, like you know, I want to sign them up for some stuff, and he was thinking about moving back to Columbus.

jennifer:

so he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sign them up, sign them up, it's cool. So I did, and then he lost his mind when it happened and he wasn't living in Columbus yet, which I don't know how he thought he was. He didn't have a job, um. So then he essentially kidnapped them for the entire summer. He was supposed to take them for a long weekend and he didn't bring them back. This was in june.

jennifer:

He didn't bring them back until august, and so then I had to go back to court and then he got into several car accidents with them while he was on fentanyl and there was like a warrant out for his arrest and he wanted to take them and I was like you're not taking them because I don't need you to get arrested in Michigan while I'm in Columbus, because one of the car accidents he got into he was up in Michigan. I had actually flown to North Carolina to visit one of my friends because I didn't have my kids and they got into a car accident and my kids were put in the hospital by themselves, because he was in another part of the hospital because he had a concussion and had broken something, I think his arm, I don't know. And then my oldest had a concussion, so I had to fly right out of Charlotte to Detroit to pick them up.

jennifer:

His parents wouldn't go sit with them because there was a really bad storm like snowstorm, and so he shouldn't have been driving anyway. It was like a level three.

jennifer:

You know, you're not supposed to be on the roads and he like slid into a tree because he was high, of course, of course, so course, so, yeah, so, anyways, I was like no, we're not doing that. And so basically, yeah, the whole thing came down to he lost visitation. He's only allowed to see them under supervised visits, which he has not at all used, and this was in 2017. So he has not seen them. He's barely talked to them. When he does, it's very like crazy. Like he tells he tried to tell my oldest when last year, I think, or maybe two years ago, when she was 15 or 16, he tried to tell her that I had brainwashed her and that, you know, I was bipolar and he wanted to help me and he was basically the hero, and she finally like lost her mind on him. She just went off, was like, uh, what are you talking about? Like she's here all the time. You're never here, and I think that was the last time she's talked to him. And then my youngest has never really had as much interest, because she was so little and she just didn't. She's just not that type of person. My oldest is a little bit more empathetic, I guess, and Saren's a little bit more like yep, you're not helping me. Bye, yeah, so, yeah.

jennifer:

So that's the divorce story. Those are the highlights of it. Um, it was a lot, it was terrible, I mean absolutely terrible, going through it. I was still kind of young, like young enough, where none of my friends had gotten divorced yet, like not a single one, and so I didn't have anyone to talk to about it, except for my mom and my stepmom, and I think I mentioned earlier my mom isn't exactly the most stable person, so that was a little that you know. There was no like having conversations with her. In fact, at one point I think she said she hoped he would come back from Michigan and kill me. So you know, yeah, yeah, she's fun like that.

jennifer:

Um, so I basically just had my stepmom and you know it's, it's just hard when you're young and you have two young kids, and I didn't have anyone that could relate to me and you know, this was kind of a while ago, like Facebook was still kind of new, and I didn't know where to even find like support groups or other women that were divorced or getting divorced. I mean, I had a hard enough time finding like mom's groups for my young kids. So I had, I had support, like my family was great and my friends were amazing. They were just they just didn't understand, you know, like not to that level. So that was kind of difficult, um, but I did go to therapy like a lot, especially when he kidnapped them, because I was just a mess for three months, basically, um, and that really helps because you have, especially if you find the right therapist, like I loved my therapist and I think you've talked about this before with me too, that you love your therapist yes

jennifer:

yeah, and so if you find the right one, it's just it's so helpful. And he diagnosed me with PTSD and we did some like therapies to help with that and it really did like I used to have like something would trigger me and I would have a full meltdown, couldn't control myself, would be hysterical, like half in a panic attack. And after we did this treatment it just hit differently, like I was much more stable and much more able to like control my emotions and like would I still get upset, yes, but there was no panic attack anymore.

jennifer:

So that was amazing Cause I didn't even know that was a thing like to to have that there were like special PTSD therapies, so that was amazing. Um, my, I had two, two divorce attorneys. The first one was a family friend and he was he was okay, like he, he helped me because he knew my dad and my grandfather because they both worked at the courthouse and um, but he was older, like ready to retire, and he just wasn't on top of things. But I didn't realize that until I had my second attorney, because by the time I needed the second one, um, you know, after all the car accidents and him basically trying to kill my children, um, I had to. He, my first attorney, had retired so I needed a new one and my friend introduced me to his friend that he had gone to high school with and he was phenomenal.

jennifer:

Like he remembered all the details, things I'd forgotten about because this dragged on for years. Like he got into three car accidents with them. One like a lady died afterwards. Oh, because he was high, and like I don't know, they never tested him that time. The second time they didn't test him, they just thought he slipped on ice. They didn't realize that he was also on something, probably fentanyl.

jennifer:

And the third one he had gone into a ditch so many times, like it was also bad weather, of course, and the kids were supposed to be home at 6 pm. I ended up picking them up some random town in Michigan at 4 o'clock in the morning at a police station, because he had, he was high and he was driving around in circles and he kept saying the weather's so bad, the weather's so bad. But when the cops found him he was headed north, like you're supposed to be going south to ohio, right? So yeah, and he had apparently like driven the car into a ditch. And the only reason this that the cops even showed up is because he finally crashed into a ditch and passed out. And my oldest got his phone and called me and was, you know, very upset and crying and you know, like I don't know where we are, like he won't wake up, and I was like I don't know where you are, you have to hang up and call 911.

sarah :

Yeah.

jennifer:

So, then I just started driving like towards them and I like left, I just grabbed my keys. I didn't bring my purse, I didn't bring my like nothing. I had my phone and my keys and I called my parents on the way up there and they were and I realized I was like I don't have my purse, I only have a half a tank of gas, like I just left in such a hurry. So they actually met me like on the side of the road and like we just left my car in a parking lot and then they drove. But I was like freaking out because they my poor kids. So anyway, yes, so all of that was a terrible time. Obviously it's something just I don't wish on anyone. I mean, I think divorce is the hardest thing. You feel like a failure. You ask yourself a million times like what could I have done differently? How did this happen? Like, what triggered this? Like you know, I just I take a lot of self-blame, even though.

jennifer:

I don't even know how he started doing drugs like he was not. He didn't even really drink when we were together. Occasionally he would like smoke pot, but that was not like all the time even, and so how it rolled into fentanyl I have no idea, like couldn't tell you it was. It was a wild time. But, like I said, I think you know, looking, looking back, there were definitely red flags that I missed. There were some things that he like lied about or he would say things like I'm not a violent person, I'm the least violent person and I would always think that's a weird thing to say because I'm not a violent person, but I don't feel like I have to say that a lot right, like I don't have to warn you, I'm not violent right like'm not violent, I'm just not.

jennifer:

I just thought it was so weird and like he had a history with his ex too. So she wasn't, they were never married, but they were together for a while and, like I said, they had a daughter and he never like she up and moved out of state because of the craziness with him too. But you know, he always told me that she was crazy and that, you know, it was always her and like his parents and his friends backed that story up. So I had no reason to question it and he told me that she, when she was pregnant, she had accused him of pushing her down the stairs and he would be like I'm not violent, blah, blah, blah blah. And then, after the fact, I was like I bet he did push her down the stairs like.

jennifer:

I bet he did, because why would she make that up? And he denies. You know, with our incident it was I attacked him, I cut him with the glass.

jennifer:

You know, like I was the violent one and I that's the story he likes to tell and I'm like, okay, well, that's not what happened, but okay, yeah, so I, yeah, I had to drive around for months with, like a women's shelter list in my car in a bag packed, because I just never knew he was gonna show up or, you know, try to hurt us, and the hidden cameras was wild, like, wow, oh, it was nuts. Yeah, so that was that. But you know, time passes and with a good therapist I was able to get through it. Like my mom is crazy, but she is good in a, in a chaos, like like when things are really bad, that's when she's at her best and I think so. She's a Vietnam immigrant, so she fled the Vietnam War and I think that's why, like, her instincts kick in, because she, you know, like had to flee, and so in a time of crisis, she's very calm and she is very like prepared, and so she was good during that time, like she was very helpful.

jennifer:

Like without her and my dad and my step-parents, I don't know what I would have done, because I lived with them for a while. I had just started working again, I was making no money, he was paying zero child support because he had no job and so you can't collect from somebody that doesn't have income, right, um, and so it's just. It was just a a hard time, um, and, like I said, my friends were super supportive, but they were also my closest friends. All live out of state and so they would just, you know, text me and call me and send me like little baskets of stuff, but like to have someone to come over and like sit with me was not really a thing, um, the one thing I did start doing that I think really helped me is I started running a lot.

jennifer:

I ran a little bit in high school and a little bit in college, like not for a college, but I would like run a little. And this picked up from like I would go like two miles to 5k to like half marathon to marathon. Um, it was sort of my like healthy way of dealing with it. Instead of alcohol, instead of just chugging a bottle of wine every night, I was running, and so I made friends that way. So that was really helpful. Um, I'm they're still some of my closest friends, um, even though I don't really run as much anymore. And then, you know, eventually you start dating again.

sarah :

And that's weird because, you don't trust anyone, right at least I didn't.

jennifer:

I trusted no one yeah, no one like. I'm like, oh yeah, you're great now. What about in five years? What are you gonna be like then?

jennifer:

yes so I got to the point where I was finally. Like you know, I can live my life in this paranoid state and think that everybody is actually horrible underneath, or I can go back to the way I was and just trust people until they show me otherwise. And that's a better way to live, because I was so paranoid all the time Like okay, well, when's the next bad thing going to happen?

sarah :

Yeah, when's the shoe going to drop?

jennifer:

Yes, yeah, like, who knows, like you're amazing, but you know, will you attack me later? Will you start doing drugs? Are you going to like try and kill me later? Will you start doing drugs? Are you gonna like try and kill my children? I don't know. It's hard to say and that's a terrible way to live.

sarah :

It's a crap shoot.

jennifer:

It's yeah it's a terrible way to live. So I worked in HR for a while. I was at a large company which I loved, and then I ended up sort of at a smaller company with like in a distribution center, and I didn't love the job but I loved my boss at the time. She was amazing and I was there for like three years and she ended up getting another job offer. So she left and they wanted me to take her job, but it was a lot of traveling and I had young kids and I just couldn't do it. And so I was.

jennifer:

I turned it down and actually helped hire the do it. And so I was. I turned it down and actually helped hire the next person. And she did not like me and so working there became even less fun. And plus, it was kind of far from my house and the kids were young, so every doctor's appointment or they were sick and I had to go home and take my time off and I had no free time. And so my stepdad has been a financial advisor you know my whole life and he was like why don't you come give this a try, Because you'll have more flexibility? I know what you're going through.

jennifer:

I also had a lot of court cases at that time, you know going on with him, Obviously yeah.

jennifer:

So he was like you know, you don't have to worry about taking time off and like making that time up when you have to go to court. And he was like I understand what you're, what's going on. And so I was like it was not something I ever wanted to do. Uh, math was never my favorite subject. I'm not bad at it, but I never liked it. Like I was was an English, you know, girl. Um, but when I started I realized, oh my gosh, this is just like. This is not like math at all. Actually, it's really just helping people.

jennifer:

And I went to college with a psychology degree because originally that's what I wanted to do. And, um, then I just sort of fell into HR and you know I was always helping employees, so I really loved it. And when I came into this I was like, oh, this is the same, like there's no math involved, that's what excels. For like I just type in the numbers, but like, yeah, but we're just helping people just in a different way. We're helping them with retirement, we're helping them save for their college education, we're helping them save for a house, all that fun stuff. So, yeah, so I've had a change of job. I moved to Worthington, from my old house, I met a guy that I've been with for a long time now and we just have this like great life together. Now will I get married again? Probably not. I don't trust it. I also don't see the point.

sarah :

I've already had kids.

jennifer:

I'm not going to have more kids, I don't. The other reason I don't want to get married is because of the financial entanglement. And this the guy I'm with now. He's very, he's very good with his money. I'm not worried that he would do this. But with my ex, you know, he, like I said, he let our house go into foreclosure. He also racked up, you know, tens of thousands of dollars on credit cards.

jennifer:

That were either mine or jointly owned, and he wasn't going to pay them. Like he flat out said, he wasn't going to pay them and you know he owes me several thousands of dollars of back child support and I actually cared about my credit score. I actually cared like to be able to, you know, get a car and rent a place for my kids, and so I had to pay those off by myself. He did not help at all, even though he was the one that charged all the stuff.

jennifer:

And that foreclosure you know it sits on your credit for a long time. Thankfully it was during sort of the housing crisis, so my credit score wasn't impacted very much by it because everybody was in foreclosure. But it's still like a blip. And then when you apply for a job with a financial advisor, they want to know all that history and it's embarrassing and you have to write a statement about why your house was foreclosed on and so to like, write it out to your new employer. Like, well, I had to leave because my ex was getting violent and like, but he wouldn't move out of the house.

jennifer:

So, and then I didn't want to pay for a house I wasn't living in, and then also I had to provide for my kids and he wasn't helping and I was making, you know, maybe $40,000 a year at the time because I had just gone back to work. Like that's not, it's not an easy task.

sarah :

Yeah.

jennifer:

So yeah, it was yeah. So I'm just like so glad that like times are different now and it's so much easier to find people and find women, other women going through similar situations. I mean, nobody's story is exactly the same but just to have somebody that can empathize with what you're going through and all the court stuff, and to have somebody understand, like even help guide you through the court stuff, like I wish I would have known the process of it.

sarah :

Yeah.

jennifer:

Or I didn't know. You could drag it on forever and ever just by not showing up, like that's not fair, yeah. But you know, my therapist said you know the court is very lenient up to a point and then they will slap you down. And that's basically what happened. They let the second, our first, our divorce took over a year even though we were not fighting over anything, like I took over all the financial responsibilities, I had a car, he had a car, like we didn't have anything to fight over. But it took a year because he wasn't coming to get his visitation fixed so that he could not be alone with the kids anymore.

jennifer:

Took two years. Two years and over twenty thousand dollars and he would just not come or not show up, not be prepared. He had multiple contempts of court against him for not not getting drug tested, not going to get a psych evaluation, like not doing all the things he's supposed to be doing yeah and the whole time he's harassing me, like, like, so it's just a process, and so it would have been nice to have somebody tell me that from the beginning.

jennifer:

Like hey, just so you know, this isn't going to be quick and easy, and I know other people go through divorces for years, especially if there are a lot of assets involved. It'll drag on for 10 years, which is wild. Yes, yeah, I couldn't do it. I would be in some sort of mental institution.

sarah :

Yes, yeah, well, and I agree and I feel like that's why, um, I really, you know, I appreciate you sharing your story and thank you so much, cause I know that was not an easy thing. It's a lot, yeah, yeah, and that's why I wanted to create something like this and create like a program where, you know, women can come and you know cause I remember going through mine and how I just felt so lost and I was so. You know, like you said, I was so ashamed and I did all this introspection of like, oh my gosh, what could I have done differently? What did I do? How did I cause this? You know, whenever, at the end of the day, it just, it just happened like we just, you know, my story is a little bit different than yours.

sarah :

I didn't have, yeah, all of this stuff that you went through, but you know, everybody's story is a little bit different, but at the end of the day, you I think women especially do that introspection of what could I have done differently. They blame themselves whenever there may not have been anything you could have done, not saying that you know you were perfect or I was perfect or anything like that. But at the end of the day, you know, like our exes made choices of what they were going to do and that impacted, you know, the journey that we went on um, which is why I was so glad that you wanted to, you know, join Thrive and Decide and help kind of create that tribe for women to be able to feel seen, heard, valued, and also to help kind of give a roadmap yeah um, I love that you touched on therapy, because I think therapy is like, oh, it is a game changer

jennifer:

you you can afford it and it makes me mad that you know it's so expensive in this country. It's not often covered by healthcare. It just infuriates me to no end, but it's so important.

sarah :

Yes, yeah, I think that is huge. Um, I think, finding the right divorce attorney. I think some people don't realize that you can go in and have a consultation with someone.

jennifer:

Um, most, of the time they're free.

sarah :

Yeah, I mean, I think I've only met a few that like charge for that consultation, but most of them it's free, and I think people don't realize. Just like a therapist, you may have to go to a few before you find the one that really clicks with you, but once you do, worth their weight in gold. Same with the attorney. You can go and meet with these people and it's okay to you know. Meet with multiple people, yeah, even if they're telling you the same thing, fine. Find the one that you resonate with, though. Right, find your person.

jennifer:

Yeah, that's so true, and I did not know that because I was just like oh okay, yeah, he's a divorce attorney. He's been doing this a long time, great. Except it wasn't great. He filed a few things incorrectly and you know, it wasn't like a huge problem, but it's. It was kind of like, oh, after the fact.

sarah :

Yeah Well, and I think that's what's so hard. It's just like when you start a new job, you know, like going through a divorce like it's a new. It's a new experience, Just like going into a new job is a new experience, and you don't know what, you don't know until you get in there and you start going and then you start looking back and you're like, oh okay, you know.

sarah :

And so that's where you know again, I like doing these, you know, these podcasts and doing this program and things like that to help women have kind of the roadmap and to give that permission. You know, not that they need permission, but permission to go out and talk to multiple people. The first person you talk to you don't have to work with. And I think we as women I and I'm kind of speaking for myself, but I think you- and I are probably about the same um.

sarah :

You know, you have that guilt complex yeah well, I sat down with them and they seemed really nice. I should work with them or so, and so use them, or my dad used them, or whatever you know, so I should use them too, whenever it's like nope, they're actually not aligning with everything that I need and it's okay, right to to jump ship and go somewhere else to get what you need.

jennifer:

Yeah, I think that's so true, and I do feel that way Like I. I'm a people pleaser too, so I don't like to let anyone down or waste somebody's time, even though it's not a waste of time. In your brain, you feel like you're wasting their time and that's not true, like you have to find the right person. For you, this is a huge event, like traumatic event, that's happening, and so you have to find the right person.

sarah :

Yeah.

jennifer:

Yeah.

jennifer:

And I just, I love that you started this. I really do, because it is literally all I want to do is help women with this stuff, like because it's a rough time and my situation is extreme. Like I would I have stayed married to him, you know, had this not happened, probably. So what happened, what he did, was a very extreme thing to push me out of the marriage, but that's not normally the case.

jennifer:

Usually it's like little things and I don't know if you've heard about like the gray divorce or the great divorce, but it's like all these women who are like you know their kids are leaving, they're becoming empty nesters and they're like this guy isn't doing anything for me, for our relationship, and you don't have to stay with somebody just because, like I, I don't think unconditional love applies here. Does it apply to my children? Absolutely. Does it apply to a man? No, you can't be treated terribly your entire life and think that this is it, like that's unacceptable. If you've had multiple conversations with your husband and begged for changes and the needle moves nowhere, why would you? Why stay?

sarah :

yeah.

jennifer:

I'm not. It's not like I'm pro divorce, but like I am pro this. You get one life and you should be happy. You should be with someone who cares enough to put some effort into the relationship. And sometimes that's what it is and sometimes people just grow apart and sometimes it's extreme. But whatever the reason, it's valid. Could you have done something differently? Maybe could he have done something differently?

sarah :

maybe you don't know yeah, but ultimately and I love that you say that, because I think ultimately things happen for a reason and we go through, you know, sometimes we go through some horrible, horrible things and when you're going through it you're like why, why am I?

sarah :

you know, like, why is this happening to me? But then on the other side you can look back and go, okay, this happened to me because you know I would have stayed or I would have tried to make it work or I wouldn't be who I am if that hadn't happened. And so then you don't necessarily like thank, you know, thank that situation that you went through. But you can kind of thank the universe for bringing you through that, putting you on a better path, even though you had to go through that storm.

jennifer:

Yeah, I mean, I think that's true for you right, like you wouldn't be starting this had you not gone through that.

jennifer:

Was it terrible at the time? Yes, but look what you're doing now, like look how many women you're trying to help now, which I love. I think that's amazing. And I do think that all the time, like I'm just like like aside from my kids, because when you're going through it, I literally was like what did I do in this life or a past life that made like that, that this happened to me, like why I don't deserve, I don't feel like I deserve this Right, like it was just so painful all the time. I was just a mess all the time. And now it's like well, you know, yeah, it wasn't great, but I do have my two kids now, who are amazing, and I do have this whole nother career that I would not have had had I not gone through that. I wouldn't be helping people the same way that I am, I wouldn't have met you. Like all these things, you're right, it like all comes together and it's hard to see in the moment especially, but you know, give, give it.

sarah :

I'm at 10 years. Now, give it 10 years and you'll be like, whoo, yeah, right, I'm almost at 11 years, so we're right around the same time. So, yeah, I totally agree. And, um, I think I shared with you, you know, like at the time, did I? I mean, it crushed me, yeah, to hear from my ex-husband say I don't love you and I haven't loved you for years, and I yeah, that's a horrible thing to hear.

jennifer:

I'm like wait what?

sarah :

Oh, okay, you know and like, but then you know after, like, after being separated for a while and then really looking back on like the red flag situations that I had just kind of pushed aside, you know, and it was nothing extreme like yours, but it was things like you know, hey, like uh, you know whenever we go to um, you know whenever we get on a Charleston again, you know we're going to go over to Savannah, cause you've always wanted to go to Savannah. Well, every time like we would go down there, we'd never make it over there, like there was always, you know, so it was like like everything was all about like him and what he wanted and you know, and like he never.

sarah :

When I told him I wanted to be like a, I said, you know, I really want to be a motivational speaker and he's like what are you going to motivate people to do?

sarah :

You know like, oh, I just like kind of gave up on all of that you know, but honestly, like after being separated for a couple of years, I did like I thanked him, I said thank you so much for leaving and he's like you're, you're welcome, and I was like no, like I genuinely mean thank you, because I would not have realized all the things about myself that I put on the back burner, that I stopped, like, believing in and I stopped trying to be who I should be and just was, you know, staying in that corporate bubble and just you know, just going down like a different path. So, um, you know, like you said like it happened and it sucked and it hurt like hell, but now I can look back on it and I can go. Oh, you know what, like he wasn't the right person for me and that's okay and I'm now remarried, right, I was like you, though I was like I'm never getting married again like I'm done.

sarah :

And then you know, like my, my husband now is. He's so amazing and he believes in everything that I do everything that's wonderful, yeah, like. I told him I wanted to be a motivational speaker and he's like oh my gosh, babe, you would be so good at that.

jennifer:

Like I didn't even have to tell him what I wanted to be a motivational speaker and he's like oh my gosh, babe, you would be so good at that, like I didn't even have to tell him what I wanted to motivate people to do, but that's the difference right there, like just the support, and like, yes, like you wouldn't have had that, yeah, if you were still married to your ex, like you'd be living a shell of who you are now and we all would be so exactly exactly so.

sarah :

So I think that's, I think that's probably like the biggest, the biggest thing I try and help people to understand. Like, yes, you're going through a storm right now and, yes, it it's super sucks it really does. And there's no way to sugarcoat it. Nothing about divorce is fair. Nothing, not one thing about it. So as long as you go into it, it knowing nothing's going to be fair, I'm just going to do what's best for if you have children what's best for my children.

sarah :

If you don't have children, what's best for you? Yeah, you know obviously what's best for you and your children. Right, that's what you want to focus on. But you know like if you go into it knowing it's not going to be fair. I got to figure out what is the best way for me to either win or create a win-win situation, you know, depending on what your circumstance is. You know with your ex. But just knowing those things I think is huge, knowing it's going to be a roller coaster.

jennifer:

Yeah.

sarah :

You know like you're going to have some really really great days, but then you're going to have some days where you just want to curl up in a ball and sob. Yeah, but then you're going to have some days where you just want to curl up in a ball and sob yeah, and that's okay Sob.

jennifer:

Yeah.

sarah :

Sob it out, lean into all the feelings, yeah.

jennifer:

And then eventually, the highs get higher, the lows don't get as low and you know, life becomes better. Things start evening out again. Yes, yeah, I completely agree. It's, yeah, it's definitely the worst time.

sarah :

It, it's, yeah, it's, it's definitely the worst time it it just is well, and I love that you reinvented yourself too.

jennifer:

Like you on accident, yeah, not even on purpose.

sarah :

Like just same same yeah, well, and I, you know, did the same thing, going from corporate into real estate.

sarah :

It just kind of happened like it wasn't, you know, and then like this, like I would have never thought about all of this and created this along with you know, niching into divorces and real estate, and you know, like all of that has just kind of happened because of all of my past experiences, so I love that. Then you went from HR and you loved helping the people and I loved being in you know development. I loved helping people, yeah. But, now we get to help people in a different way.

jennifer:

Yeah and yes, and I love that. It's like women-focused. I feel weird because I say it all the time, because my niche is like mostly women entrepreneurs and women in business, so I talk to lots of groups of women and I feel like I'm like bashing all the time. But that's not it like I. You know, I have wonderful men in my life, like my stepdad, for instance, gave me this job that I have, um, so it's not about that, it's just I feel like women are on the up, if that makes sense yeah, like we, we do everything now, like we, we've always been able to, but now we're like really doing everything and I just love that.

jennifer:

I just love that girl power, I love it. Yeah so anyway, I can help a poor girl going through this. I'm here.

sarah :

I love it yeah. I love it. Yeah, and I totally agree. I think it's just um. You know, whenever I tell people that I want to help women going through it, I'm like I'm not a man hater yeah, I mean no, like you're, like I'm married, he's great. Yeah, I'm married and he's phenomenal. Like I mean, I'm not a man hater and I'm not even pro-divorce, no, I'm just pro-happiness yes, whatever is going to make you happiest.

jennifer:

Yes, that's it yes, I love that. I think pro-happiness is definitely the best way to put it, because it does sound like I like went through this whole spiel and I was like this sounds like I'm pro-divorce. I'm not pro-divorce. If you're happily married, you should stay married, yes, but I think if you're unhappy, you really should evaluate what's going on and not feel that guilt about it, especially if you feel like you've given everything you can, which you know I I feel like I did. When I went back second time. I really felt like I was giving him a second chance. I was really going to put my all into this and you know I can't do it by myself. It takes two, yeah, it takes two, and you give it your best shot, and if the other person isn't willing to put their effort in, then what are you gonna do?

jennifer:

yeah so yeah, no, no, men bashing, I love my boyfriend. He's great, he's very great.

sarah :

We're not gonna get married, but yeah, and that's okay, you know, and I think that's the other really good thing about society and how we've kind of evolved. I mean I grew up in Oklahoma, buckle the Bible belt like no one gets divorced.

sarah :

You know marriages for life and you know, all of that like, and obviously people get divorced there, but um, you know, that was just kind of how you felt, and so, um, you know, I think moving to Ohio changed a lot of how I looked at things for the good, and it also, you know, I think society as a whole, though, is changing to where we're not going to tell you to stay in that marriage just because you know, like it's not, it's not always the best idea for the kids, the stigma is sort of melting away a little bit. Yes, especially in certain areas.

jennifer:

But yeah it's because nobody likes to be like, oh, I'm divorced, like that's it sounds like, oh, I failed at marriage, right, I suck at it. So yeah, yeah. But now I think you're right, because women have more choices, because we have more, we're making more money, we can support ourselves. We just need like a nice dog or cat and like you can live your best life. You don't need somebody anymore. And so I think you know if you're miserable and unhappy and you know, give it a shot exactly, exactly.

sarah :

I love it. Well, thank you so much for taking time out of your day. I know you're super busy, but I really appreciate you taking time out of your day. I know you're super busy, but I really appreciate you taking time out sharing your story, being so open and vulnerable, cause I think that's, you know, that's key as well is, you know, especially coming from a situation where you were, I'm sure it was very hard to be vulnerable for a while. Oh yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm proud of you. Oh, thank you, thank you.

sarah :

I'm proud of you for getting to the point that you can be so vulnerable and open, and I know that you know someone listening is going to you know this is going to resonate with them and it's going to give them the courage to make that choice to live their most authentic life, and you know, whether that means that they stay married or leave. You know, I think that your story is going to help inspire people, so thank you.

jennifer:

I hope so. I just hope you know, everyone knows that there is a group somewhere, Somebody understands what you're going through and you know. If you can find us, that would be amazing because you know there will be. We will have a group of women that understand and can empathize with you and sympathize and even if you, like you said, even if it's just like you just need to vent and you, but you want to stay married, like that's, that's your decision and I just want to support women period yes, yeah, I agree.

sarah :

Well, thanks for having me, of course, of course. Thank you so much and thanks everyone for tuning in. We'll see you next time on thrive and decide.