Thrive & Decide Guide to Divorce and Beyond

Breaking Chains: Moving Beyond Generational Trauma

• Sarah Thress • Season 1 • Episode 6

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What happens when the seemingly stable structure of family life begins to crumble? Join us as we navigate the emotional landscape of divorce through a child's eyes and uncover its nuanced effects on parents and children. I share my personal journey through the uncertainty of my own divorce and the fears that surfaced for my daughter's future, only to witness her incredible resilience and growth. Our special guest, Chris Pinkerton, enriches this conversation with her poignant story of growing up amidst the chaos of a controlling father and a mother overwhelmed by anxiety and alcoholism. Together, we unpack the challenging choices parents make to safeguard their children amidst turmoil and reflect on the inner strength that can arise from surviving such environments.

Our exploration continues with the harrowing events that led to Chris' parents' divorce, a tale marked by intense conflict and a violent confrontation that propelled a rapid separation. This chapter delves into the financial and emotional aftermath, a period fraught with personal sacrifice and familial tension, exacerbated by long-standing infidelities. Recognizing patterns of unhealthy relationships, we underscore the importance of supporting victims of abuse and the societal need to shift the narrative from questioning victims to holding abusers accountable. Chris and I also discuss the enduring impact of generational trauma and the dire need for strong support networks and understanding.

The closing chapter offers a hopeful transition from traditional coping mechanisms to holistic self-care practices, highlighting alternative healing methods. I recount my personal shift from medication to embracing exercise, yoga, and Reiki, finding solace and transformation in these practices. Chris and I examine the importance of personalized approaches to healing, advocating for individuals to discover what resonates with them, be it through support groups, therapy, or everyday routines that foster well-being. We invite you to explore these pathways to emotional balance, offering support and reassurance to those traversing similar challenges.

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.


Sarah Thress
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Sarah:

Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide. This week we are talking about a subject that a lot of times comes up when women and men, but especially women, are thinking about a divorce and they're thinking about their kids. And I know this was something that was huge, that came up when I was going through my divorce. I was convinced that we were going to completely, you know, fuck up our daughter, and it was. You know, she was never going to be the same and you know, even though she was five when we separated and all of that, and you know, now she gets to see us both be happy with other people, you know she's thriving, she's doing great, um, you know, I think obviously we all are works in progress, um, but you know, for um, for the purpose of this, you know, I think she's, I think she's good, but regardless, I got into a conversation with um Chris Pinkerton, who is um also, um, my Reiki guru, um, so she is absolutely phenomenal.

Sarah:

In fact, she'll be on a separate episode talking about Reiki, because if you're hearing that word and you're going, what in the world is that? Don't worry, I did the same thing, but we'll have her on a separate episode talking about that. But she went through kind of a crazy situation with her parents and has come out really strong and good on the other side, and so I asked her if she'd be willing to share her story so that others could understand kind of the process that goes on in your children's minds. But also in case you've ever been in a situation like this, you can know you're not alone.

Chris:

So, chris, thank you so much for taking time to meet with us. Oh, you're welcome. I'm happy to share what I can, so hopefully it helps other people as well.

Sarah:

Yeah, absolutely so. You, if I understand correctly, you were a little bit older, um, when your parents divorced, but were they happy? You know, all through your childhood, Like I guess, just kind of walk us through like what did your childhood look like, what was your parents' relationship, and then just kind of what led up to everything.

Chris:

Yeah, I'd say as a younger child, yes, they were happy. Things seemed to be pretty, whatever you would call normal, whatever normal is Right, right. And my parents didn't actually get first until I was a senior in college, but leading up to that, I would say, as I got older, probably in like preteen on up through like high school years, they had a really tough relationship, really tough relationship. A lot of fighting, a lot of arguments. My father was well, very controlling, very. If I look back now I have more language for it, right, because we do know more about like high conflict people, toxic people or, if you want to use that word, narcissistic, which is thrown around a lot. But looking back, he was very much like an overt narcissistic person. But he was a Cleveland police officer, so hence very, you know, authoritative, lots of rules, very strict, but also really emotionally, mentally, sometimes physically abusive, and a lot of that was directed more towards my mom, but towards the end of things, you know, more was directed towards me and my sister. So I would say that at the time this was a long time ago, so I'll say, like I was, I'm in my fifties now. So this is, you know, my.

Chris:

They actually divorced in my early twenties, um, so at that time my mom was going back to school, but she had been a stay at home mom for a long time, right, and so she relied on my father's income, and I feel like back then, too, divorce was even more stigmatized than it is now.

Chris:

Yes, even though we've come through a lot, right, and even though we're in now it's 2024 as we record this there's still a little bit of stigma, I think, but back then there weren't that many people going through a divorce.

Chris:

So in some ways I really do feel that my mom probably wanted to leave a lot sooner than she actually did, but she didn't have as many choices, right, she didn't have as much support, she didn't have as equal of an income, and I don't really know what divorce laws were like back then, but you know, at that time what was it like? 1974 or something, before a woman could even get credit in her own name, yeah, what the date is exactly, but you know. So they had a really volatile relationship. It wasn't always shown to me but, as I said, as I got older than it was, and I remember growing up and going on vacation to see my grandparents that lived in Florida and I remember overhearing my parents arguing and my grandparents talking to them, and hearing my grandfather say something like you know, you've got to promise me to keep this together until the girls are through school.

Chris:

And so I feel like that's kind of what the agreement was is to, and I thought it was high school, but maybe they meant college and I was the youngest. So I kind of feel like that's what they were both striving towards, even though both of them were miserable you know, towards the end.

Chris:

So fast forward to my senior year of college and once I was kind of out of the house I was like woohoo, just because there was a lot of tension growing up. Obviously, as I said, some abusive things directed towards me and my sister, but a lot more towards my mom, and my mom also developed a drinking problem. So that worsened as we got older as well.

Sarah:

Was that probably like a coping mechanism for her?

Chris:

I think so. I think there was a lot of anxiety and depression that was undiagnosed at that time on her part, and so that was a, you know, a way to cope with that, which a lot of people do.

Sarah:

Yeah, right, yeah.

Chris:

And she just was, I think, sticking it out Right. So, fast forward to senior year in college and I, you know what's interesting is looking back like I can remember a lot about what happened, obviously, but then there's certain details that I've blocked out. So I feel like our minds do that right To protect us.

Sarah:

A hundred percent.

Chris:

Yeah. So I got a phone call and my sister, who's a couple of years older than me, was still living at home I was away at school, which was about an hour away Got a phone call that you need to come home right away. We're having so-and-so drive you home. Mom is in the hospital and I'm like what's, what's going on? And she wouldn't really tell me a whole lot, but she's like I just need you to get home. I'm like, okay, is she okay? Is she stable? Yeah, she is, but we need to. You know, take her home. I'm like okay, is, but we need to, you know, take her home. I'm like, okay.

Chris:

Well, then it came out that, um, it was my dad that put her in the hospital. He pretty much beat the shit out of her. Um, I don't know exactly the whole story of how she got away from him, because he was a big man, she was very much more petite, but apparently he was on top of her and I don't know if the phone rang. I think the phone rang and maybe it was even my grandmother calling and my dad went to answer the phone and my mom somehow got up and went to the neighbor's house and they called the ambulance to come and get her. So dad fled and we didn't know where he was.

Chris:

So I'm basically then going to the hospital to take my mom home, to my sister, who lived away from the family home, thank God, but walked in, have my mom come out in a wheelchair and like, oh my gosh, like I couldn't even recognize, her Cheekbones were broken. The socket of when I was broken, I mean I would have passed her in the street and didn't know who she was. Right, it was just like horrific. So we had to then take my mom back to my sister's place. She had a little condo and I I remember at the time this makes zero sense now but my mom wanted some of her clothes and things from the house, but we still didn't know where my father was and, mind you, he was a police officer.

Sarah:

I was going to say wasn't? Yeah, I was gonna say wasn't he a police officer? So he probably fled, or I'm actually shocked that he didn't just go. Oh well, nothing's going to happen to me, which I think a lot of you know officers do, unfortunately yes.

Chris:

Well, we lived in a suburb of Cleveland, so we were in.

Chris:

Oh, okay, okay, it was a different city, um, so he fled, but we had no idea where he went and so I don't know, uh, bad decision. But we went back to the house to get some things from my mother. Uh, walk into the house and both my sister and I were like, oh my gosh, there's just blood everywhere, like all over the hallway, all over the carpet, um, just shocking, you know, yeah, and went to gather some clothes and some personal things for her and then, you know, got out as soon as we could, took her to my sister's house and then pretty much same thing. Just, we weren't sure if my dad was going to show up, if he was mentally unstable, if he was going to come in with a gun and shoot us all. I mean, it was just, yeah, it was really bad. So obviously that did not happen.

Chris:

He did not, thankfully, show up, but very long night, and then we had to then accompany my mom to court, and whether that was the next day or a few days later, I can't remember exactly, but my father was arrested by that city, by those police in that city, and we had to go to the arraignment, basically at the courthouse.

Chris:

So I remember, obviously, my mom being there still very much hurt, broken right and again. I don't remember a ton of details about it, but I do remember being so pissed off because we were in this hallway waiting to go into the courtroom and me, my mother, my sister were standing there, and then my dad was there too and they allowed him to be around us and he wanted to speak to my mother and I basically stood in front of them and just said no, you're not speaking to her, and proceeded to scream at him in the hallway. I don't even know what I yelled at her, but basically it was something along the lines of like you almost killed her. You do not get to speak to her. You know, like this is done.

Chris:

Yeah, um, get away from us, kind of thing, and I'm sure it wasn't as nice as that, but yeah, you'd have to ask my sister, because it's almost like one of those things where you're just having like an out-of-body experience, right Like there's words coming out, but I don't even know what they were.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

My mother didn't want to press charges against him because he would have lost his job with the police. Yeah, so she dropped the charges, right, yeah, which was a horrible mistake. She drops the charges. Uh, so he's been free to go.

Chris:

But that was really the catalyst to their divorce because even though they had a horrible marriage up until then, uh, neither one of them obviously had taken any steps to file and to leave, and my sister and I obviously knew that things were really bad. And after all of this was said and done, we were like you know, this should have happened, like years and years ago. Maybe if that would have happened, things would have escalated to my mom almost losing her life. If that would have happened, things would have escalated to my mom almost losing her life. We still don't really know exactly what happened between them. Obviously there was an argument of some sort whether she was drunk. They were both drunk, I don't know. We never really got the full story of what exactly happened. Yeah, so obviously lots of trauma surrounding all of that.

Chris:

And then, as my mom went through the divorce process again, because my father was so high conflict and so obviously intimidating and she was still very afraid of him, obviously because he almost killed her. She really didn't fight for what she could have received. So she gave up a lot. Wow, she gave up my father's pension that he had yeah, so he had been on the police force for almost 30 years when he retired and he had a ton of, obviously, back pay. You know, overtime, all the things and because my mom was just wanting to be done and away from him, she gave so much of that up, which, again, huge mistake. Yeah, so sad. She was intimidated, she wanted to be away from him. She just wanted to be done, but not thinking about her financial future, which, towards the end of her life. Then she was on food stamps while my father remarried and had this beautiful home in Florida. So big, big inequity, right.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

And you know, after after the court um debacle, really with my mom and just trying to help her through the whole divorce process, I really didn't have a relationship obviously with my dad. I went with no contact with him probably for a good year at least as I worked through things on my own therapy et cetera. You know, eventually I did kind of repair our relationship but it wasn't obviously the same. We had lots of big discussions about what happened and he really never took complete accountability for it and that wasn't okay with me.

Chris:

You know you don't lay hands on a woman, you don't. I don't care what you're pushed to, you don't ever do something like that. So he never could quite admit that he was fully responsible for that whole, that whole thing. So it was, it was very bad, it was very traumatic. So again, I wasn't a young child, but seeing them move through what they moved through, and knowing what I knew as an adult, like you know, this really should have been ended a long time ago.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

Yeah. So that's it kind of in a nutshell. It's there's more obviously nuances to it, but uh, that was the biggest thing. And so then, after all of that, like the initial um time with my mom, you know, I had to go back to college and finish. I still had several weeks within my time there to finish and graduate.

Chris:

So it was a blur of just trying to finish up classwork and exams and all of that. Obviously, just my mom came to my graduation. My dad wasn't permitted to come. So you know, for me, just personally, it was a lot to navigate, because then I feel like also you and I talked about this kind of before our recording that I really became that rock confident support for my mother, which really wasn't the healthiest thing for me being the child, even though I was an adult child. That was a lot to put on me. She didn't rely so much on my sister because my sister just wasn't really wanting to be part of the emotional part where I was like, sure, I'll help you, of course I've got this, of course let's do this, let's do this we're going to, we're going to get through this, Um, yeah.

Chris:

So my sister obviously was there, but she just didn't really want to be as involved, I think, as I. I was and I wanted to be because I wanted to be there for my mom, obviously. So again now, as an adult, right in my 50s, I look back and think, wow, that was just not good at all, because it totally put me in the midst of all of their, you know, division of assets and arguing about this and that and then bad mouthing each other and just yeah, it was just not a good dynamic.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

So on top of that, or as part of the whole divorce thing, my father was also having an affair with a woman that he worked with. That was probably at least nine years long at that point, if not longer. Wow, yeah. So, as you can imagine, once things fell apart with my parents, he went immediately. Of course, Mm-hmm, so I'm assuming he also went to her place like the night of the beating that he did to my mother and yeah, mother and yeah.

Chris:

And even with all of that, you know, I just never really could figure out how she was very willing to harbor my, my fugitive father Right, who almost killed his wife Right.

Sarah:

Right, like cause. She had to have figured it out. I mean she's a cop so she had to have heard. I guarantee they don't like not talk about that stuff.

Chris:

She wasn't a police officer, but she was like uh, administrative.

Sarah:

Oh well still, but yes no she.

Chris:

She absolutely knew what had happened. But so, wow, it was. It was a mess. Yeah, it was a huge mess. Wow, yeah, I know, wow, and so, and so I just look back on it and go. You know, first of all, yes, I cannot believe that my mom survived that. First of all, I don't know how she got away. It was by the grace of God, I guess she had her angels helping her, but just everything else that transpired. So it was really disheartening to see, first of all, her come out with not much of anything 27 year marriage and to see my father living his best life ever.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

Um in Florida with his new wife and new house and all the things, while my mom struggled.

Sarah:

Now, when you were going through that, I mean obviously like that, like I can't even imagine going through all of that, cause I did help my parents through a divorce. I mean I was in my forties, um, but still, like you know, it was uh, actually no, I was in my thirties, but still, um, you know regardless was actually no, I was in my 30s, but still, you know, regardless. So I understand how that is. But you know, when you look back on it, what do you, what do you wish that maybe you could have done differently? Or like, what do you wish someone would have done for you?

Sarah:

Because, really, like the idea behind you know, like this Thrive and Decide, I mean you're part of the program and it completely makes sense why you know you want to be a part of this group, helping women to come out on the other side. You know better because you've been in it. You didn't. You know you weren't divorcing. Know better because you've been in it. You didn't. You know you weren't divorcing yourself, but like you've been a part of it. So you understand. So I guess my thought is like, if you go back to that, you know 20 year old self, like, what do you wish someone would have said to you or done for you or like been there for you or whatever, so that maybe someone else that's listening to this, that's so deep in it, can be like okay, there's the life raft that I need to be able to get through this, or is there anything that you could think of?

Chris:

Well, I don't even know.

Chris:

You know again, this was so many years ago that I don't really even know what resources were available, like for my mom at that point, and I really wish that she would have had more of a support team or advocates that she could have turned to, right, I don't know that she really utilized any resources or what was available, other than she was in therapy.

Chris:

Um, you know, obviously after that, maybe maybe before too, but you know, now there are people that can, um, like um, domestic violence shelters, right, like there's advocates that they can assign to you as you go through the court system, right, there's people that are there to help you with a safety plan if you need that, and obviously that was something my mother needed. So if she would have tried to take the steps to leave my father before getting the shit beat out of her, she could have had some things in place, right, she could have had some financial help or, you know, again like a safety plan. So I don't really know how active, like the domestic violence shelters were at that point, but something like that that could have helped her, obviously having more knowledge about some financial things would have helped her and having a support group, I do look back.

Chris:

She did have female friends, but again I feel like a lot of her friends were also my father's friends. So, having her own support network of women, female friends, instead of relying on her daughter to help her navigate the divorce and to be her support. To complain about my father instead of complaining to me you know like, even though I hated him at that moment, right.

Sarah:

Even though.

Chris:

I really didn't want anything to do with him. I still didn't want to hear just all of the character bashing and all that. Like that needed to be with a friend of hers or her therapist, not not me.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

Um, and then really, for me too, as an adult, to have. You know, even though I was, excuse me, a child, I was an adult, but I don't, I didn't really have any resources to go to. I eventually got myself into some counseling. But yeah, it was very. It was obviously a huge trauma and nobody talked about trauma. There were, you know, not-informed therapists that I know of yeah um, so yeah, we were very lacking in support.

Chris:

I was very lacking in support, my sister was too. Like we really needed to have support, because the other thing that happens, especially when you're dealing with divorce, we're also dealing with alcohol. With divorce, we're also dealing with alcoholism, and then we're also dealing with abuse because, my father was abusive as a family unit. None of that was discussed either. You know a lot of that was swept under the rug.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

Even with, like my grandparents, who knew what was happening, a lot of the conversation about my parents' relationship and about things didn't occur until after all of this had happened, where we could have used some some support from them. Yeah, instead of not talking about it and keeping it a big family secret, as many of other families do, it needed to be talked about.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

And again the whole thing. I've been hearing this a lot lately about women that are in abusive relationships and you know, instead of asking the woman, why didn't you leave?

Sarah:

Right.

Chris:

Asking the man. Why are you abusing?

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

You know whether it's verbal, mental, financial, physical. You know why are you doing that, why are these behaviors okay or they're not okay, but why is it being tolerated?

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

Because women, you know, I think the statistic is it takes at least 12 times before they leave, like attempts to leave.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

And I feel like my mom probably did early on. We just didn't really know it as young kids, but she felt stuck.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

So I don't want any woman to ever feel like she's stuck because she's not. Yeah Right, it's just a matter of getting yourself the right help and resources and support and making a plan.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

Had my mom had a plan that maybe a lot of that could have been avoided. Obviously, had my not, had my dad not been an abuser Right, they wouldn't have been where they were but again like they were moving towards divorce. That was just the huge, obviously catalyst that that pushed it all into actually happening. Wow, which is horrible.

Sarah:

Yeah, I don't know if you've either read that Colleen Hoover book it Ends With Us or like seen the movie or whatever, but something you just said reminded me of something from that book because I just listened to it. Um, because I, if if a movie has a book, I want to read it first or listen to it first before I go, yeah, I like I don't care, like even if it just came out, I'm like I have to read the book first, like yeah, so I just finished it. But anyways, she was talking about in there and spoiler alert. Spoiler alert if someone hasn't listened to this or seen it.

Sarah:

But regardless, you know they talk about how her you know the main character her mom was abused by her dad and she continuously watched it and she never understood, like why the hell is she staying? Why is she staying? I don't understand. And she thought her mom was really weak staying. Why is she staying? I don't understand. And she thought her mom was really weak.

Sarah:

And then she goes into a relationship with this. You know on paper and you know in the first glance he's perfect, absolutely perfect. And then he started going into rages and like beating her and you know she forgave him twice, and after the third time she was like I'm just like, I'm done, thank God. But it helped her to realize, okay, my mom's not weak, she wasn't weak, she just literally like didn't know what to do.

Sarah:

And men that are like that tend to also be just charming enough to keep you, so they'll say they're sorry, they'll promise they'll never do it again. They appeal to a woman's soft side of forgiveness, which is much softer than a man's side of forgiveness, and so then they stay and then, unfortunately, something like what happened to your mom happens, or worse, and you know. So I just think, I think that's something I'm glad that you know that's being talked about more, um, because I think, again, you know, violence, um, domestic violence, things like that just weren't talked about because it was, you know, it was embarrassing. You felt, you know, ashamed that you would put yourself in that situation or you would allow it to happen, even though, like, you're not allowing it. It just that's the life that you're in right now and how can we get you out of it?

Chris:

But yeah, absolutely, and you know, the thing with abuse is that I did read the book too Um, the thing with abuse is that it starts really subtly and it's that whole um adage of have you heard about like boiling a frog, like oh yeah, if you um, if you boil a pot of water, basically, and you throw a frog in it, they jump right out because it's boiling water, right. But if you place um a frog in like lukewarm water and then slowly bring the temperature up, they don't feel it and they boil themselves to death.

Chris:

And that's what abuse is like because, it starts off very subtle, very, maybe not such a big deal. Something happens that you know, you question, but you give the benefit of the doubt right.

Chris:

Like okay, and then if you get an apology, okay, well, that was a one-off, uh, and then something maybe escalates later.

Chris:

You know, it's like that whole um, there's a wheel I remember seeing like a power and abuse wheel, and it's a cycle, right. So sometimes there could be long stretches where everything then is great. So it does become the woman's second guessing, like yeah, am I making it more than it is? Yeah, exactly. And so I do feel like that dynamic was playing out, and you know, also with my mom, which is for a lot of women too, like financial resources weren't really there or or access to them. Like there are some women too, resources weren't really there or or access to them. Like there are some women too, maybe, who do have the finances to leave an abusive relationship, but they can't access it. So there's all kinds of ways that that whole abuse um dynamic plays out and it's yeah, it's scary and it's wrong. And we need women to know that there are resources out there for them, that they're never stuck, that there is something that they can do. And so I think that's the amazing part of Thrive and Decide too is that you've got this group of professionals, you know, put together that can help women with any of those facets, so that you're not

Chris:

alone and you know you don't have to necessarily leave in this moment, but you can start making a plan for yourself, and that's what I don't think my mom had. She didn't have a plan. Yeah, her life blew up and forced her to react, and had she been able to take her time and actually make a plan as best she could, I think she would have had a much different outcome than she did like through the whole divorce process. So there's a lot there.

Chris:

Obviously there's a lot to unpack, but it's also why I feel so strongly in women and supporting women and, you know, allowing them to know that they're never alone and there's always something that we can do and there's ways to support. And they have to make that decision for themselves about when they're ready to leave. Right, and that's just it too. Like that whole, I would really pray that we can all support women and stop saying if it's so bad, why don't you leave? I just want that and maybe the movie. It ends with us in the book. Now that it's more out there, we'll be helpful with that too, because it's just so damaging. It's so damaging for women who are struggling and who are feeling shame and guilt about being in these relationships and not being out Like they put enough on themselves.

Chris:

Yeah, so let's support them and just be. Hey, what do you need? What can I do to help you? Yeah, what can I do to help support you? You know, what do you need in this moment?

Sarah:

Yeah, is it? Do you just need someone to sit and listen and you know, even if it is the same story over and over again, like okay, it still doesn't give the person listening the right to say okay. Well then, what are you going to do about it? Why do you say you know, like there are helpful ways to say okay. So now you know like it sounds like this has become more of a pattern. Is there a plan that you and I could create together to get you out of this situation? So like more of a positive way of like how can I help you, instead of like why the hell would you stay? Yeah.

Chris:

You know, yeah, pulling the judgment piece out of it.

Sarah:

Yes.

Chris:

And being the support, like you just said. I think that's hugely important for women or anyone that's in an abusive relationship. Right, it could be men too, but I really just think we need to do better when it comes to those types of relationships, and again, women supporting women, let's stop judging. Yes, let's stop judging each other. I know we judge on the outfits and all that kind of thing, but you know, this is something that we need to do better at.

Sarah:

I agree I agree.

Sarah:

Now you um, so anyone that is listening now that maybe went through something similar. You know, like as a child they saw this with their parents or whatever. And like I've known you for a few years and you obviously seem to have like everything you know, like you've you've done really well, you've healed. Obviously, as we've mentioned before, you know, healing is a lifelong journey. There's never, like you know, you don't just get, like your certificate for passing grief, grief school. There is no reason to feel any sadness about this anymore because you've graduated Like you're good there's not, but like I know that you, you know, have been on a lifelong journey of becoming the best version of yourself and things like that.

Sarah:

So I just wondered if maybe there was a few things that, like, if someone was listening and they were like man, like uh, you know I'm drowning in everything that happened in my childhood, you know you just made me realize that I went through this traumatic experience. What, what do you think really helped you? I know you mentioned having a counselor. You know was there, was there anything else? Maybe that was like really helpful for you, that you think someone listening could could really benefit from.

Chris:

Yes, I've done a lot of different things. Like you said, it's a work in progress and I do feel like we are all works in progress. Right, and if you are on any kind of healing journey, again it's, it's continuous.

Chris:

Like yeah, it's just not something that you're, like you said, done, I'm done Right. So I would say, you know, after after all this happened with my parents and the divorce, I was in my twenties and I was dealing with a lot of anxiety, obviously after that and I started getting really bad panic attacks. Um, and so I did seek out therapy and for a while I was medicated with like anti-anxiety meds and depression meds. For me personally, my body doesn't do well on medication.

Chris:

So, it really messed me up, numbed me out really bad. So I kind of knew I needed to kind of seek out some different things For me. I also found exercise to be a huge release for me when things were really bad. Going through the divorce process with my mom, I was kickboxing a lot, because there's nothing like kicking and punching things that you're allowed to, uh, to get aggression out. So working out was really helpful for me, just for my mental health.

Chris:

And then later on I discovered essential oils. So I was always really more bent towards like holistic, so started using oils to support me emotionally, physically, and then same thing with some different multivitamins and supplements and stuff like that. Eventually obviously got off my um, my meds for anxiety and depression, and then did things, things like yoga, started dabbling a little bit in meditation but wasn't like an all you know everyday kind of practice, but then had a lot of other different life events happen. So now we're kind of like towards the later part of my last several years and a friend of mine suggested Reiki to me, which I had no idea and I know we're going to talk about that on our other episode. But Reiki is gentle, touch, energy healing and I didn't know what it was, but I'm like sure, I will try anything. I'm just, I will try anything.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

So went to my first few Reiki sessions and had these big emotional releases, to the point where I was sobbing and, you know, walked in there not thinking that I was going to have that response. But that really took me by surprise. And I asked my Reiki practitioner at the time, like, is this what Reiki is about? Like, am I going to have a breakdown every time I come? And she said, no, it's just, you have so much that you've suppressed and trauma and negative emotion, and it's coming out now and it's releasing, which is what we want to have happen. And she was so right because after, after I started having Reiki regularly, my life changed, like I felt so much better and not that I want to say therapy isn't important, because it was, but I felt like I made greater strides in my healing with energy, healing with Reiki. Um, so I believe that it's a combination of whatever works for you, you know, and to try different things. I also had, um, attended some Al-Anon meetings because of my mom's alcoholism. For me personally, I I didn't feel like that was the best fit for me. I probably should have tried some different groups and I might still go back to that, but, um, you know, I just think there's so many different modalities out there that try things right. Try things out, see what works and kind of customize your own healing, your own healing regimen, basically.

Chris:

So now also, just being out in nature is huge for me. You know, I do a daily walk because my dog won't let me miss it, but even if I didn't have her to go with me, that's a huge way for me to just center and ground my energy, start my day. A lot of people have other things that they find really calming and centering. So I would say, just seek out different things, be open to try things. Because, like I said, I had no idea what Reiki was and I'm like, oh my gosh, it changed my life and now I'm a practitioner. So, yeah, so many things out there and again, there's just so much more awareness. You know, if you're just even on social media now, you can do different support groups and things online. So there's so many choices out there. Just seek it out, yeah, yeah, and take what you like and leave the rest Right.

Sarah:

Yes, yeah, that's what I think is a really key takeaway is there is no right or wrong way to grieve, there is no right or wrong way to handle anything that's being thrown at you, and there is no one-stop shop, there is no school that you go to to get through grief or to heal, or to continue to grow and become the best version of yourself, and that's what you know at the end of the day. That's what everybody should be striving for is just how do I become the best version of myself? How do I give myself the best self-care? And that doesn't mean that every single day, you wake up and you do, you know, make huge strides, Like that may just be. You wake up every day and you make sure that you're, you know, taking your walk or you're, you know, like washing your face, like you know any of the things that are self-care that make you feel better, even just you know a half percent better. That's what you should strive for each day.

Chris:

Yeah, it's all about feeling better and I would say music is also really, yes, sound, even if you just listen to different frequencies to help support your body. But music definitely, you know, obviously you can set a tone for yourself. Whether you really need to have a good cry. You can have like a whole playlist of like this is my crying music, right, or you can have something really happy, uplifting, energetic, um, yeah, so I really feel like music is important too. Yeah, so really looking at what makes you feel good.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

Right, and so maybe it's a mixture of things. Yeah, maybe some people like swear by therapy and speaking to a therapist and that's great. You know whatever works for you.

Sarah:

Yeah, I totally agree, I think I mean I I mean I've been with my therapist for over a decade now and you know she was a huge part of my healing through my divorce journey. But you know I also am learning that you know it now is just a small part of it. Now. You know I've extended out into like Reiki once a month and like doing um, you know once a month. And you know like I make sure that I get my hair done every. You know seven weeks and you know, and some people are like that is insane and I'm like, well, you know what? Like these are the things that make me feel better, that help me, you know, to continue to just feel better. But on the flip side, if you wake up one day and you're so sad, throw yourself that damn pity party, yep.

Chris:

Totally agree.

Sarah:

Throw the fricking pity party, Lean into those emotions, cry it out, eat all the junk, watch all the crap, do whatever it is that makes you feel better in that pity party moment. And then the next day, because you've honored those feelings the next day, that's when you can get up and you can try to be a half a percent better.

Chris:

Yeah, I totally agree with you. And because if you do some practices like that, you're honoring the emotion that you're feeling and you're feeling it and then you're releasing it Right, because I think where I got stuck with all of my trauma was that I just pushed it down Right, like I didn't necessarily feel things when I needed to, I just pushed it down so I could soldier forward and keep going.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

Right, and so then that's when things come out sideways. So, yeah, if you're having a really hard time, give yourself that that day. Like you said, the pity party cry, let that out. That's crying is our way of releasing negative energy and negative emotion. And the first thing a lot of us say, especially women, is if we start crying, I'm sorry. If somebody's around and it's like no, please don't ever say you're sorry, because that is our body's way of releasing that. We want it out, get it out, so feel it and then release it, right, yeah. So I do the same thing If I'm in a really down mood or I'm not feeling great. If I can, I make a whole day of it, like you just said, and I stay in my pajamas and I cry if I want to, and you know all of that Right.

Sarah:

But absolutely the next day I'm like, okay now, yeah, we're gonna do something else for sure, because I learned whenever I didn't honor my pity party days, my grief grew and grew and grew, to the point that then I would like lash out at somebody over something really stupid, or I would like yell at, you know, addison, my daughter, like over something that was stupid. Crazily enough, even at five she could call me on my shit.

Sarah:

Like she would be like yeah mom, did you have a bad day at work today? Because you're yelling about stuff you don't normally yell about and I'm like, wow, okay, so, yeah, so I really did learn, like okay. And I'm like, wow, okay, uh, so yeah, so I really did learn, like okay. Like I can't, I can't just shove this down and just pretend everything's great, like you know, even if that means, uh, you know, going through the day with a smile on your face and then you know, like, if you don't have a date, that you can just throw yourself a full on pity party. Get through the day, put your kids to bed, do whatever, and then throw yourself a little pity party, like whatever it is that's going to allow you to feel safe and feeling those emotions. Do it.

Chris:

Yeah, there's a lot of times when I go on my walks that I cry through my. My neighbors are probably like what is wrong with her? Um, but a lot of times, you know, that's again my alone time. I'm out in nature, I'm, you know, kind of doing a meditation in a way, and sometimes that's my way to release my sadness or my you know so yeah. I mean or go, you know, sit by a lake or something on a bench and have a good cry, yeah.

Chris:

It's just, we try to move past that so quickly, right, we try to, like not have those emotions, but we're meant to feel all of the emotions that we have as humans. We're just not meant to sit in it forever, right, right, so that's the other thing about. Like I have an issue with the whole good vibes only and that toxic positivity, like that's not that's not real, sustainable and it's not real.

Chris:

Yeah, and we're not meant to be little robots with smiles plastered on our faces. You're meant to feel, but you're meant to heal too, right? So feel it, clear it, release it and move on. Yeah, however, you need to do that.

Sarah:

I love it.

Chris:

I love it.

Sarah:

Well, thank you so much for taking time out to share your story. I really appreciate it. Uh, it is very um brave to come on and share your story and you know, be uh, be that. You know little light that someone listening needs to hear, so I really appreciate it.

Chris:

Thank you, sarah, love you. Thanks for having me.

Sarah:

Of course I love you too. We'll see you next time on Thrive and Decide.