Thrive & Decide Guide to Divorce and Beyond

Embracing Change: Transformative Growth and New Paths After Divorce

• Sarah Thress • Season 1 • Episode 7

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Have you ever felt the weight of societal expectations pushing you into life decisions you weren't ready for? Toni joins us to share her deeply personal journey through the complexities of young marriage and the tough, yet transformative process of divorce. She opens up about the emotional challenges she faced, likening divorce to the grief of losing someone still alive, and how navigating this difficult chapter became a catalyst for her personal growth and self-discovery. Toni's story is a powerful reminder that life's significant milestones don't adhere to a fixed timeline, and finding one's true path is more important than conforming to societal norms.

Toni's journey didn't stop at the end of her marriage; it was just the beginning of an empowering transformation. As she reflects on the pain of losing herself in an unfulfilling relationship, she discusses the importance of recognizing when to leave toxic environments and the necessity of being financially prepared for such decisions. With courage and resilience, Toni rebuilt her identity, overcoming the fear of judgment and embracing self-care and personal growth. Her insights on maintaining a positive relationship with her ex for the sake of their children highlight the value of civility and effective co-parenting, emphasizing that personal strength can emerge from adversity.

Life after divorce brings its own set of challenges and opportunities for growth. Toni's narrative is filled with practical wisdom, from engaging in self-help resources and therapy to finding joy and community through activities like yoga and Zumba. She shares her experiences of career transitions and the fears accompanying financial independence, underscoring the importance of taking risks and following one's passion. With humor and grace, Toni reminds us that it's okay to seek help and cherish the unpredictability of life, underscoring the value of community support and the courage it takes to embrace each day with gratitude.

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.


Sarah Thress
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Speaker 1:

Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide. This week we have Toni, who has very graciously agreed to come on and share her story and, like I always try and tell people whenever they're tuning into this in case this is your first time the reason that I feel really strongly about working with women that are going through these life changes, you know, like a divorce or like a, you know, loss of a spouse the reason that I like to have people come on and share their story is because everyone's story is unique but there may be something that is said that can help you, and the whole idea here is to help women feel seen, heard, understood, validated and just to make sure that you're not alone. So, tony, thank you so much for you know being so gracious and vulnerable, because this is a vulnerable, you know, topic. So I appreciate you coming on and, you know, just kind of sharing, sharing your story with us.

Speaker 2:

Oh gosh, Well, thank you so much for having me. And it is a vulnerable, it's an uncomfortable topic as well as well. I think when we go through divorce, we we feel like we're a failure. Yeah, we are a failure, and it takes two people to make a marriage work. I know I come from a family. My parents just celebrated 56 years Wow 56 years, and that was the goal that I had set for myself.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you know I have been divorced. It'll be 17 years next month and but it feels like yesterday.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's been 17 years. Time definitely goes fast. But there are moments that I have like my gosh. Every time my parents celebrate an anniversary as happy as I am, there's a part of me that's sad that I didn't get that chance. I didn't have that chance to grow old with the person, but what I did get a chance of is getting into the correct life that I'm supposed to be leading. Um, I think a lot of times we we think that we're supposed to go down this path and this journey and stay in a situation that we're we're not happy and that's not the case.

Speaker 2:

I tell friends all the time. I have so many friends that are contemplating divorce, going through a divorce, are contemplating divorce, going through a divorce, and I just want to say divorce is okay. Yeah, divorce is okay. There is no rule that you have to stay married and we all come from very different situations in relationships that we've had and you know I've heard so many stories over the years. But divorce is okay and, yes, is it difficult? Absolutely. You go through every single emotion the anger, the hate, the sadness, the you know the, the scared. You go through every emotion. It's it's like a death, but they're still around. It's like a death of a person but they're still there.

Speaker 2:

No, but you go through all of these emotions and and what I have found over all of these years. I, even to this very day, I'll have a trigger, even though it's been 17 years. I'll have a trigger, but it's, but it's. I've grown so much and I love where my life is and I love who I am as a human being. And you know, I was a very different person back in the day. So so I'm going to take you back in that day, a long time ago, back in that day.

Speaker 2:

So I met my ex at a place of employment and he was a bad boy, fresh out of the Navy. Bad boy. He was super hot and all the girls wanted him. So guess what? Of course I had to win that battle. Of course you did. I had to win because I, like I like a challenge and, um, you know I was. I was definitely a more insecure person at that time. Um, I was. I was a little bit overweight. Um, you know, I just got out of a bad relationship, um, that I was really distraught over, and um, so I was I was very vulnerable and I was very naive and you know, he and I, we connected.

Speaker 2:

He couldn't be more opposite than I am, even to this day.

Speaker 1:

Just I look at him, I'm like what was I thinking? We all have those moments.

Speaker 2:

But I look at it now and I'm like but I had to have him, yeah, because he was a challenge and he was a bad boy, um, so you know it. Um, you know it started out fun, because opposites do attract. And there there's, there's some fun in those first two years. And you know, I'll start out by saying we got together and then we moved in together. Gosh, eight months after we started dating, my father was not happy about that at all.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I can imagine.

Speaker 2:

And my pitch to my dad I think I was, I was just turning 24 years old. My pitch to my dad was well, dad, this is great, we have to like we'll figure it out before we get married. Right, we'll figure it out. Well, that really didn't happen. That line doesn't really work. So when my if my son ever came to me and said that I'd be like no dude, that, trust me, that doesn't work. Okay, so we, so we, we moved in together and again, the first couple of years were fine. It was exciting, you know, this whole new thing or whatever, but I always knew in my gut, in my gut, something was something that I always knew in my gut he wasn't my person. But when you're in your early twenties, you're on that timeline yes, timeline. I got to lock and load somebody because I want to be married by then and I want to start having kids by then, yep, and you know, that's unfortunate, and if there's one thing that I can tell anybody, we're not on any kind of timeline.

Speaker 2:

I know people that are just getting married for the first time in their 50s and guess what? That's okay. Yep, that's okay. So I know people that have been married for 30 some years that are getting divorced, and that's okay. So it's all part of your independent, it's all part of our personal journey and we have to go with our gut and we have to go with what is making us happy. I think what we tend to do is we tend to try to make other people happy before we make ourselves happy.

Speaker 1:

One million percent.

Speaker 2:

And this is our life and we've got one shot at this. So what? What are we doing to make ourselves happy? And if I could go back and redo it all, but I have to say, let me just say I have the most amazing son from this human. So, most amazing son I like to call my sperm donor, and that's okay. That's okay. Sperm donor. My son is just the best thing ever, so um, it's a great sperm donor. My son is just the best thing ever, so um. But so we, we moved in together and don't you know, we were together, living together, six years before we finally got married, wow yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, okay, that's a big red flag. Yeah, that's a big red flag.

Speaker 2:

And my older self knows now what I've heard from all of my male friends that a man knows in four to five months of male friends, that a man knows in four to five months if you are the one he wants to be with, yeah, and so, as I am in this world of dating now, I tell myself that that if I get into a relationship and if it's at four to five month point we're having a conversation, and if they don't, if it's not, if there's no feeling there, whatever, we're moving on.

Speaker 2:

But anyways, this is in your twenties. Things are different back then, um, you know, different generation, um, so so we got married and a year later I get pregnant and just things just just start to decline, just start to decline and so many of the factors that happened to us, um, but I do want to backtrack just a little bit and tell you about the work environment we worked in. We worked in a very young work environment at a very exciting, edgy, popular company and I won't name the name because everybody knows somebody that worked at this company back in the day technology company and you know the work environment. Everybody was so flirty.

Speaker 2:

And I was just talking to a girlfriend about this the other night that worked there with me. She's actually my life mentor, but we were talking about this.

Speaker 2:

You know, everybody was so flirty and you know the younger version of myself in my twenties definitely overweight at the time, insecure, dating a bad boy. You know that everybody flirted with him. He flirted with everybody. There was a lot of insecurity on my part and that's just ugly, yeah. And I think we've all been in those phases where we have that insecurity. I became a different person. To make him happy, yeah, my parents even to this day would tell me gosh, you were just an ugly nasty person because I changed who I was to make him happy. Try to make him happy. Yeah, and now in hindsight, nothing was going to make him happy, right?

Speaker 1:

Even to this day.

Speaker 2:

Nothing makes him happy.

Speaker 1:

Well, and you probably didn't even realize that you were changing who you were to fit that mold, not at all, not at all, not at all.

Speaker 2:

I was so focused on being the perfect girlfriend, the perfect wife, and then come to be the perfect mother. And just I was accepting not being treated how I wanted to be treated, you know.

Speaker 1:

I'll give you a great example.

Speaker 2:

You know I'm Italian. We are like we are huggers. We are I love yous to. You know, we never hang up the phone with people we love without saying I love you, you know, because we believe in the fact that that could be the last time you talk to a person so and on a good note right.

Speaker 2:

And I'll never forget this. And this was not. This was about maybe halfway in the dating thing, we already living together and all that stuff. But I had a conversation with him saying, my gosh, you know, you never told me you love me. And he said I don't have to, you should know how I feel. Oh, boom, red flag right there. Wow, red flag.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Guys, I had a million red flags. I ignored them all because I was on this track. Yep, I got my guy. He's locked and loaded. We live together. Now we're going to get married, or you know we got married, now we're going to get married, or you know, we got married, now we're gonna. You know, I stayed in there because I thought I had to, okay, and that was just was, just was just wrong.

Speaker 2:

We should not stay in situations where we are not comfortable now let's let's say I'm not encouraging everybody to go out there and get a divorce right. But, my gosh, do you really want to lead a life where you're just not happy and your partner is not treating you with the respect? And there's so many things that are going on in relationships? You know, I have a family member that's that's in a very tumultuous relationship and it's so hard for me to watch what she's going through and she's not in a position where she can get out, and that's the whole. Other part of a conversation we can get into is getting yourself in a position to where, if you need to get out of a situation, you can financially do it, because most people are not there.

Speaker 2:

So, um, but back to back to my story. You know, we we worked in this very flirtatious environment and you know I'm going to go down this path. I'm going to, I'm going to talk about it. You know what? There was a work colleague that he was very, very, very close to and she was married to a great guy, you know, to a guy that if I saw on the street to this day I'd still hug him because he's an amazing guy. But but you know, she was a bit of a busybody, always in business, and my ex was very just, for whatever reason, just very drawn to her. Um, you know, um, he invited them to the wedding and I was devastated because she wasn't my friend, I didn't want her at the wedding. Yeah, um, and you know, ultimately, his, his relationship, you know, I don't think they had a physical affair, but they definitely had an emotional affair and if you're familiar with that, I think that's worse than a physical affair, because that emotional connection is what we as humans are supposed to be drawn together on.

Speaker 2:

Is that emotional connection? And when your husband at the time is is spending more time hanging out at this girl's house with her husband, which is just so weird, versus being home with his wife and his son, there's a problem, there's a big problem, and that was ultimately the the the big demise of this. You know we won't get into details of all that other stuff, Um, but you know, my gosh, you know, going through that divorce, it was. It's a devastating situation, but I am here to say it is going to be okay and it's going to be better than okay when you, when you're at the bottom, the only place you can go is up and it's baby steps, it's getting through all of those emotions and it's figuring out who you are.

Speaker 2:

I mean, one of the best feelings was when my parents, years after the divorce, were like oh my gosh, we're so glad to have you back. You're back. And it made me cry because I never realized that I wasn't there. Yeah, but it just sucked the life out of me and just everything I was going through was just it was painful. Yeah, but it just sucked the life out of me and just everything I was going through was just it was painful, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

You bounce back and you become better. Yeah, now, when you were going through that and you were, you know this, quote unquote like different person, um, did you have a lot of people in your you know kind of inner circle that were like helpful or not helpful? Because I feel like it's a common theme that people quote unquote, mean well, but some of the things that they think they're doing to be helpful actually are very hurtful. Or having someone that doesn't understand your situation and tells you oh, you can make it work, like just suck it up, you've got a kid. You can't do that to your kid, you're going to completely fuck them up, you know. So I would love to just kind of hear, like, did you, did you have that inner circle? Were you able to create that inner circle? Did you have haters?

Speaker 2:

What's funny? Bring that up. Let's talk about friends. Let's talk about how that works when you go through this. So he and I, having worked at the same company, we had a lot of mutual friends. Yeah, and to this day, many of them I still don't talk to.

Speaker 2:

When you start going through these difficult relationship times, what I've learned is people don't know how to react, so they disappear. They disappear. I mean my gosh, the friend I had. She was such a good friend to me at the time she threw our bridal shower. For God's sake, you know, pay for it, pay for the whole bridal shower out of her pocket. I've not talked to her in all of these years and it's still to this day kind of chokes me up because how can you go from that to nothing? Yeah, but I learned very quickly.

Speaker 2:

And then I've had some friends come back into my world. They left me back in the day when I was going through this time and then, over the course of time, they kind of came back into my world and we've had these conversations and they're like we just didn't know how to talk to you and I said all you had to do was just talk to me. I didn't expect anything from you. Just continue to be my friend. You know I was the same person you knew. You know now I'm a better person because my real identity is back after going through all of that.

Speaker 2:

But I think people just have a fear. They just want to stay out of it and don't want to get involved. Um, was there judging? Um, yeah, there was judging. Of course people like to judge. That's what humans like to do, for whatever gross reason it's. It is gross. Um, they don't know. They don't know your world. They don't know what goes on behind those closed doors. They don't know. You know I hired a private investigator because of things that I uncovered in my situation and they don't know what that was. They don't know what I uncovered on that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

They don't know what I saw, they don't know the emails that I was able to read. They don't know. So they do tend to judge and say you know, gosh, you know you've only been married seven years. Shouldn't you make it work? You've got this young child, like you said.

Speaker 1:

And it's like you know what?

Speaker 2:

First of all, there's no good time to get a divorce.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't matter if your child is young or if your child is a teenager or an adult. Your child could be 30. It's still going to be hard for them to watch their parents, you know, not be one united person. But what you have to do, what I had to do, was just make it okay for my son. I had to train my friends. Guys, I'm going to be so much better. I'm going to be a better friend to you because I'm not going to be miserable anymore. Yeah, I'm getting myself out of a miserable situation where I am not being treated like I want to be treated, and that's what you should embrace me for and congratulate me. And let's go out and have some fun, let's do some things and help keep my mind focused on the future versus what I'm going through now. Just let me get through this. And you know, yeah, it's, it's everybody.

Speaker 2:

It's so funny because when you go through a divorce, it's not really, it's not just you going through a divorce. Everybody around you is going through it your family, your friends. You know the, the, the family member that I have, when she's not going through a divorce now, but she is. She's not going through a divorce now, but she is, she's close to making it happen and it's affecting our whole family and it's it's not a good thing. You know, we have all of these beautiful holidays coming up. It's going to be very awkward, yeah, so we have to put on the happy faces and go. Okay, you know you are the father of these two beautiful children that are still very young and I'm going to always respect you because of that. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

So it affects everybody and I think that people need to understand. Like I said before, you don't know what people are really going through. Yeah, that's why it's always good to be kind to anybody you see on the street. You don't know what they're facing in their life, yeah, so we all need to learn to just be more accepted and respectful and understand that you know. If somebody you care about is going through something like this, you know, ask them questions, how can you help? They're probably going to say, oh, there's nothing you can do. Just when I need to vent, when I need to cry, can I? Can I text you? Can I call you? Can I have five minutes? You know, just last night I picked up the phone because I was having a moment and called one of my girlfriends and said okay, I need five minutes of your time, because the last relationship I was in I had a trigger and I needed five minutes, and that's that's all people really need. We just need to understand the sensitivity to all of this.

Speaker 2:

But again, I just really want to reiterate that you know we all go through these situations for a reason. It's part of our life journey. It's not something that we intended to do, but it happened and it's okay. It's okay and I think that's the biggest thing I can stress that it's okay to do something that's going to put you on a better journey in your life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you, um, you had the private investigator, you uncovered information and all of that, and so did you then confront him with anything? Oh, I did, and, and like, how did that conversation go? And is that what ultimately led to?

Speaker 2:

like, we're done Well my ex was and still is to this very day which still fires me up.

Speaker 2:

See, it's a trigger to this day. If I have something I need to talk to him about regarding our son, when he doesn't want to talk, he just shuts down. And then there's me. That's like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The Italian one I want to know Blah, blah, blah. So that confrontation, I mean it was a joke, because of course you're going to get that's not true. That's not true. You know, I can't believe you did this, whatever. You know all this stuff, you know you, you go through all of that stuff. But I think the important part of it was that he needed to understand that I knew what he was doing. I was onto him, I confronted her about it and she's like we're just friends. No, it is not appropriate to be like that with somebody else's husband.

Speaker 1:

It just isn't.

Speaker 2:

Um, and there's so much of that that goes on in this day and age. Oh my gosh, we need to have a separate podcast for dating. But anyways, we will.

Speaker 1:

I'll have you back.

Speaker 2:

We'll talk about dating, yeah no, but um, but yeah, no it, um. It's kind of funny because when it comes to counseling, I am the biggest fan of counseling. Yep, I actually did personal counseling just for me. I met with a counselor before a lot of this major stuff was going down, because I was struggling so much internally, thinking what am I doing wrong? This man won't even tell me he loves me. I should know it. Um, you know, just doesn't, just doesn't treat me like I'm. And so I basically went to a counselor to find out what was wrong with me yes, and I'm a huge fan of that, I promote it all the time and only to find out there was nothing wrong with me. I was just not with my person, yeah, and so to me, that was kind of my first aha moment. But having said that, I hired a PI.

Speaker 2:

We go through all this stuff, a lot of other situations during this whole thing and I convinced him let's go to marriage counseling. But there is a fine line. There's a fine line to counseling as a couple. Yep, If you get to counseling before it is so far in, you're going to be great. Marriage counseling is awesome, but there's a fine line where, if you're just too far past and there's too much hatred and there's too much lack of trust. It's not going to work. So we go, we go to this counselor. This, this poor guy can just I can still visualize his face Um, we sit down and my ex and I are not saying a word to each other. There are so much anger in us between this. I mean you could. I feel, like I could feel the heat from the bodies, that anger and the hatred and the not wanting to be there and we sat down and I'll never forget this council.

Speaker 2:

He just, he was just like wow, um, I'm having a feeling this session is not going to last very long and I just I kind of laughed and again I was being childish and I'm like, yeah, probably not. I had so much anger in me. Who wants to have that kind of anger? Right, who wants to be that? You were sitting there with the person you married that was supposed to be till death? Do you part and the father of your child? You have so much hatred and anger. Who wants that? Nobody wants that.

Speaker 2:

Um, and I think that session lasted 15 minutes and basically the the counselor said guys, I'm sorry, I just I really do just just think that you guys have, you know, it's just not going to work. Yeah, and to hear that 15 minutes in from a marriage counselor, you're just kind of like wow. And but one of the things I want to point out about that one session we went to just one, um, my ex had said something because you know, I think we're all under the common notation of you've got one soulmate out there, right, you've got your one true love.

Speaker 2:

And my ex actually made the comment she's not my person, she's not my one love, she's not my one true love. And you know what that counselor said and I will never forget it and I believe in this. And he's like well, he goes. I'm going to correct you on that he goes. I don't believe in you having one true soulmate out there, one true love he goes. I believe you have many soulmates and you have many loves, because we go through many phases in our life where we change. Yeah, and I will never forget that. That was one of the most powerful things that came out of that 15-minute counselor meeting where he basically said you guys are done.

Speaker 2:

I believe that to this day. I don't believe you have Now my parents.

Speaker 2:

Again, they're the exception. Yeah, I think what they have is so unique and so rare, and again, they're in a completely different generation, but in our generations, in this day and age. I don't mean you should go out there, get married and get divorced just to see who else is out there, gosh, no. But if it's not working and you're miserable and you have anger and so much animosity and animosity that's a hard word Animosity, yeah, animosity, great job, lord, thank you, um, towards somebody you know, I just, I think it's just you just you'd have to proceed how your gut is telling you to do but I'll never forget that you have many loves for the different times in your lives.

Speaker 2:

Maybe you yeah, you just do so. I'll never forget that Very powerful.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree, and I think that's something that you don't learn until you're older, you know older and kind of look back on it because you know, I know, I believed that in my twenties, like I'm just looking for my soulmate, and I thought you know my husband was my soulmate, you know obviously right, yeah, Well.

Speaker 2:

I, should you want to kill him and then, you're like.

Speaker 1:

well, death did us part then you're like, well, death did us part? Yeah, no, exactly so. But I, you know, I hate the fact that you had to go through that and I hate the fact that anyone has to go through this. But what I have learned through my healing journey and how I've gotten to this point, you know, 11 years out from my divorce, um, is just by constantly focusing on how to grow, how to become a better version of myself. Recognizing that I, you know, did put, you know, my ex on a pedestal. I did think that, you know, like that was it. And then I thought my whole world was, you know, crumbling and falling apart and I was, you know, like I was going to be fucked up forever. Uh, you know, to then realize like, no, it's okay, and that happened for a reason. And, you know, and that's okay, and it's led me now to this point and, uh, you know, allowed me to then help others to understand, like it's okay, what you're feeling. It doesn't matter what you're feeling, it's okay, it's okay.

Speaker 2:

It's so okay, and that's what everybody needs to understand that you're not alone. Yeah, you are not alone. So many, so many people have gone through this, are going through this, will go through this and don't know it yet, or want to go through this, but don't know how to to make things happen. And I just can't stress enough that you know we have one life to live. We have to make every moment count and you know, just like with your friends, and you know where you work or whatever just every element of your life needs to make you happy yeah but gosh, your spouse should be your best friend.

Speaker 2:

My ex was not best my best friend you know what he told me when I confronted him again early on in in the relationship and other red flag guys Um, I said you should be my best friend. He's like no, he's like you're you're. You know you're my girlfriend, you know you can't be my best friend. That's just weird. And that again I should have ran right. I should have ran again Like, oh my gosh, I could have run like 5,000 miles all the red cards, I would run for back in the day.

Speaker 2:

But you know, I mean again, it's it's hindsight on all these things you look back on. But you know I think your spouse should be your best friend, the person that you trust and they trust you and that person that is your ride or die. And you know I'm I'm excited to find that person If I ever do. I may not, and that's okay as well, it's okay to not have that person Again my path. I am just taking these steps every day. I'm just glad to wake up healthy every morning and I just embrace what the day holds and I am grateful.

Speaker 2:

People ask me all the time, you know, because my ex and I, you know, we raised this amazing son. He played college sports, so we've had to spend a lot of time together through all these years and a lot of times we really mastered the craft of divorce. We didn't make it ugly, okay, we kept it very clean for the sake of our son and a lot of folks in my community for the longest time when he was like middle school sports, even some high school, they didn't even know we were divorced because we can be very civil together.

Speaker 1:

And that's very important.

Speaker 2:

Even though down deep I still get gurgles, like you know, I'm able to put on that poker face and know that. You know what I am strong, I am solid, I've made it through this. I've been independent on my own for a long time now and it's been such a godsend, such a blessing. And you know my son, he's so good because he's an adult now. He still will make sure to spend equal time with myself and his father during the week. I mean, isn't that crazy? He doesn't have to.

Speaker 2:

That's so sweet it is because he understands the importance of having a relationship with both of us, and you know. So when I sit back at the end of the day and you know, if I have a trigger or I think about some of these things from the past, I get a little grumpy about it. I think about the end result and the fact that we have an amazing child together who is a good, humble human being, even though he went through this very early on in his life. He, as an adult, has skills and stuff. His organizational skills are impeccable when you have to divide your time between two houses. He learned never to forget anything or whatever. But you know he has skills and he has knowledge on learning from his father and I and what we've been dealt with and all of that and I just there's so much positive in that whole outcome. Did you know was painful to go through, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Would I want to go through it again.

Speaker 2:

No, yeah, but it happened for a reason and I just embrace that fact and it's, and again, it's OK, you're not alone.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Like I said, so many have been through it, so many are going through it now and I think the key thing is just to be there for people that you know are going through this.

Speaker 2:

And if you are going through it now yourself, my gosh. Reach out to friends, those friends that may be shunning you. Reach out to them and say hey, I could really use a quick conversation with you. Or can we meet for coffee or a glass of wine, or whatever it is? Can we just talk? I just need to vent and I think that you'll find that they'll embrace that.

Speaker 1:

They're afraid to reach out to you Because they don't know what to say.

Speaker 2:

They don't know what to say. They're terrified.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, and they don't want to minimize it by like, hey, you want to go grab a drink, let's pretend like nothing's happening. And it's like, hey, you want to go grab a drink, you know like, let's, let's pretend like nothing's happening. And it's like, well, no, like you reaching out, like that's what they need. But you know when, if you're not going through it, or you know, you don't know, you don't know what to say, it is very difficult to do that.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and you know it's so funny. It comes full circle because one of my very dear friends who I've known for over 30 years. She shunned me during my divorce. I was devastated and then she reached out to me years later, and don't you know, she reached out to me at the time when she started wanting to get a divorce.

Speaker 2:

And so she reached out to me for guidance, yeah, for guidance. And in the beginning I was kind of like, huh well, where were you, where were you when I was going through mine? But I put those feelings aside and decided to become that friend again and just kind of, you know, just make those thoughts that I had go away and was able to kind of coach her and give her the strength that she needed to get out of a really unfortunate situation herself. Yeah, and so she is now happily divorced, which I know sounds very happily divorced, um, and she's thriving and doing very well. So, you know, you may have that situation where those people that did disappear from your world do come back because they're going to go through that situation or it could be another situation they're going through in their life that you know they need your guidance on. And it's kind of funny because when you do come out on the other side of this, people really look at you as a point of strength. Yeah, they really do Like, wow, she's she went through it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I need to tap into her brain because she she understands stuff that I don't yeah. So you really do become the I don't know the expert if you will, not that you want to be an expert in divorce, but you become a a life expert of dealing with something that's very traumatic because it is yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, and what I found, too, was that, uh, some people that were friends of mine didn't want to really get involved because they, too were unhappy in their marriage, and they thought, well, if I'm friends with you while you're going through this, it's going to make me want to go through it, or it's going to make me face those demons and face those issues and maybe you don't even realize it.

Speaker 1:

I think a lot of times it's subconsciously. You know that you're about to go through that too, and so you're like, well, I can't be a part of this, because that's going to make me want to do it or whatever. Like it's, it's not contagious, right, you know like?

Speaker 2:

that's the thing I love. That, yeah, so not contagious you can be happily married.

Speaker 1:

That's totally fine. Good with that. I'm happy for you, you know I want you to be happy.

Speaker 2:

Are you happy, right? No, no, you nailed something.

Speaker 1:

It's not contagious like I'm not gonna come tell you about my divorce and you're gonna go oh my god, that sounds amazing, I'm gonna get divorced?

Speaker 2:

let's do it. How do I do this? How do I get? What do I do? What's my first?

Speaker 1:

step. Yeah, yeah, it's a club that, like, no one really wants to be a member of, but once you are in it and you are healed, then it's. I don't want to say it's a badge of honor, but it is a piece of your story that helps you put that armor back on and build up and become the person that you want to be.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's how we have to look at it. You know, like I mentioned earlier, it is nothing that any of us want to deal. We didn't get married to get divorced. No, we don't sign up for that, no, um, but marriage takes two people, very dedicated to make it work. You know, the biggest, biggest issue, I think, in every relationship, not even just marriage, but every relationship, is communication. I think we as humans, with technology, I think we've really lost the art of communications and, as grateful as I am for technology.

Speaker 2:

I think we have just lost that art of being able to pick up the phone or sit down with somebody in person and have that communication, and you know it, it starts with that and no, it's definitely. It is a badge of honor because, you know you, you got through a very, you know, difficult. You know, like I said, you go through every single emotion that you can possibly go through, like a death. You know, and you got through it and you're coming out on the other side. Does it happen right away, where you're strong? Oh my gosh, no, I'm still growing after 17 years. Yeah, I'm still growing. Every day I have my triggers. You know, not every day, but once in a while I'll have a trigger and I'm like, oh, I didn't like that. Yeah, you know, sometimes I laugh about it. Sometimes it does get me emotionally, you know, challenged um you know, and that's normal.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're humans and we're going to always have those. That's normal. Yeah, we're humans and we're going to always have those. But I think what you have to focus on is that I like that badge of honor. Yeah, because, boy, do you grow from this situation. Yes, you grow so much as a human.

Speaker 1:

If you allow it, if you allow it, know you're right. Yes, I unfortunately have known several people that go through it and they continue to stay in that victim mentality and never learn and grow from it. So I love that. You know, we've kind of we've kind of touched on you know that, like you and I have a very similar path after divorce. Everybody has a unique story of their divorce in their marriage and all of that. But the the part that you and I did afterwards was the work. We did the work to figure out like I mean, I did the same thing you did. I was like I went to therapy and I was like what did I do wrong? Why was I not the perfect wife? Like what can I do to be better? Like what can I do to to be a better wife and a better mom? And and how did I make him leave me whenever it was like right, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And my therapist was like, no, no, like that.

Speaker 1:

No, no, like it's not you, Like I'm certain there are things that you know maybe you could have done differently, but this is not all you. It takes two to be in the marriage. It takes two to keep the, to sustain the marriage, and you can't be the only person wanting it for both of you.

Speaker 2:

You're so right. No, you are so right, and you brought up a good point. You know, because I too have known people that um, still, to this day, play victim. Um, that's who they are. Um, I don't know if they'll ever change, but you know, when you go through this, you have that option. You have a choice you can play victim or you can grow and become a beast. I wanted to be a beast. My my first goal was to show my ex I don't need you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't need you and, to this day, I'm very proud of you. Know him, witnessing things that I've done in my life, um, where I've not needed him, yeah. So, but yeah, you have to make that choice. Do you want to play the victim what was me or do you want to be, you know, the beast and have that badge of honor for sure?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, now I really leaned so far into books and like really just you know like self-help learning. You know, and I still am in that, like I don't think I'll ever reach a point, I don't think anyone ever reaches a point where you're like oh my God, I've reached the pinnacle. I am now like my… top person, like I can never be better Always growing, yes, always growing.

Speaker 1:

I found that, uh, anything by Brene Brown was so helpful, like daring greatly, um, you know. Uh. Then, also reading Ariana Huffington, um, you know, things like that Did you have any books or anything that you, any songs, anything that you really listened to that helped you kind of get through that? That maybe someone listening would go, oh my gosh, like I need that book or I need you know, because what helped me may not have helped you, it may not help anybody listening, but you know, I think just knowledge is power.

Speaker 2:

Oh, knowledge is totally power and to this day, I still love self-help books of any type. I don't think I don't even know if I have a particular author, but I just gravitate towards anything. I just read one. You know the beginning of the last year when I was in a relationship I knew I needed to get out of and it was called and I can't remember the name of the author how to Win your Breakup. And this book I swear it was written for me. Everything that she was writing in there was my story and my journey with this person.

Speaker 2:

So I think knowledge is power and those those types of things, like you said, whether it's books or documentaries, you can watch or you know, you know just or songs, music is such a music is, oh, it's for the soul. It's amazing Anything you can do to and to help strengthen yourself and enrich your knowledge and just help you cope. This is about coping, yeah, um, this is about waking up the next day and making it a better day than the day before, and, again, it's about baby steps. I think one of the biggest challenges that I've watched some of my friends when they go through these difficult situations is they just want it done all at once. Yeah, this is a journey. Once you start that process, you're at the bottom and it is walking up those stairs again to the top, and every stair is a different, challenge is a different. You know just something that's so good Um and um. I think you continually, no matter what age you are or where you are in your life, you continually need to grow as a person.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely do.

Speaker 2:

Because, even though you get through this divorce, you might start dating again. You're going to be put into another relationship, um, where you might deal with different situations and different things that you're not comfortable with. And, even though you took growth from that divorce, there's a whole new set of challenges that might be waiting for you. So you got to figure out how do you deal with those challenges. So, um, absolutely, knowledge is power, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree and I love that you, you know you kind of shared that that you went on that growth journey. You had therapy, um, you know, was there anything else that maybe you did? Like, did you? Cause I know you mentioned that, you know, you weren't, you weren't entirely happy with, uh, you know, maybe your your body image, um, you know, and things like that, because I think that those, uh, you know I only say that because you mentioned a couple of times that you were.

Speaker 1:

You know that you were like out of shape, um, and overweight, which I think we, we all, you know, get to that point. So I'd love to just, you know again, make sure that everyone, you know, kind of understands the steps that you took, that you know again, this wasn't an overnight, like you know. I'm going to cry it out, you know, for a week and then I'm going to be like all right, you know, screw it, I'm good, you know, and then and then just move on. So therapy, that was huge for me, I know it was huge for you, um, you know, reading the books, things like that, like, was there anything else that maybe you think really helped you get through the day to day?

Speaker 1:

Because obviously, as I've shared before, um, it's it's a roller coaster and you know, some days you're going to be so sad and you're just going to feel like you just want to crawl into a hole. And I always say lean into that, cry it out, feel all the feelings and then the next day you can put on your big girl panties and you can go back and then you're going to go up on the roller coaster and then your highs, you know, are going to be.

Speaker 2:

Oh, so high.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and eventually your highs get higher and your lows don't get as low and you start to kind of even out. But it's a massive rollercoaster. So I'd love to kind of hear what did you do to get through that rollercoaster?

Speaker 2:

So you know what one of the biggest things that I started doing um is? I did start working out and again, I'm not a gym buff by any means, um, but I did find release. And by working out I don't mean be going to the gym and doing the weights and all that stuff. I mean I was joining yoga classes and Pilates classes and bar classes. I taught Zumba. I taught Zumba. Never in my path would I ever thought I would have taught a group fitness class, but I taught Zumba and that I think that release and being around a new group of people with a certain interest, that was huge for me. That was, that was huge. It still is huge to me. Yeah, it's still a big thing. I try to incorporate that kind of concept into my life every day. You know what group of people can I be involved with that? We have something in common that we can do together. Do I have a walking group? Do I have this? Do I have that? Um. So that was kind of my release, um.

Speaker 2:

You know, there was something that my ex said to me again, another big red flag. This is this is really brutal, but this is just kind of. We'll give you a little bit of an inkling of some of the mental abuse that I did go through. Um'll never forget. There was a time when I was walking in front of him and I've always had thick thighs and he made a comment and guys, why did I not leave him? Then I don't know. Okay, we've all done this, all right, we stay for stupid reasons. But he made a comment and he asked me he goes, doesn't that hurt when your legs rub together? I can remember this like it was yesterday. Those things will always stay etched in your head. So again, you know, after starting going through this thing, my goal was to really take care of me, which was something I had put to the put on the back burner all those years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and one of those big things was to get myself into better shape. I knew career-wise I was going to be fine because I'm very driven for work, but I needed to take care of myself physically.

Speaker 2:

And so I really focused on that and we all have a different thing. You know, maybe you know a lot of you out there are already physically fit or whatever, so you'll find a different means to do that, but that was my thing and it was. It's still to this day. Like I said, it's such a release for me to, even if I'm on a laptop doing Pilates from a YouTube. It's a release.

Speaker 2:

It helps my mind at my age Now, the physical appearance of things, it's not so much as important as my mindset every day. What can I do to cleanse my mind and my soul and make me feel better? And if the physical gets in better shape, that's great, but I'm not dwelling on it. Uh, you know, like I did years ago, so, but that was where I that was how I kind of turned that journey and that path.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, and I know you mentioned, um, you know that you were always good in your uh, career. Um, so do you think? A lot of times, people either don't go through with the divorce or they struggle with it because they're like I've been a stay at home mom, I don't know. You know how I'm going to pay for things, you know. So, even though you were secure in your, in your career, I'm sure there was still a part of you that was like holy shit, I'm going to go from having two incomes to just me, and it's just me. So, you know, yeah, I was going to say how did you feel about that?

Speaker 2:

It was terrifying, um, and we had just it was. It was kind of funny, you know, um, because at the time one of the other icings on the cake of our marriage was, you know, I was in a corporate position and I went through a layoff and it was my first time losing my job and I was the breadwinner, the big breadwinner, and we had just, you know, we'd been living in this big, beautiful home we just built blah, blah, blah and we were definitely living paycheck to paycheck because we had built outside of our means, and so that again was added stress onto our marriage, in addition to having a young child at the time, and then just all of the other stuff that had been building up, not just with me over the years you know, he had stuff building up within him about me over years as well, but just all of that. The icing on the cake was when I lost that big corporate, big paying job. And what's funny about it? I was actually relieved and happy Because I was miserable at that job.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Completely miserable.

Speaker 2:

So again another added stress onto that. When you're not happy where you're working, it's just one more thing that adds to the pile. And that is actually what catapulted me to go into my insurance industry. You know, and do what I do now, which I absolutely love, and take that risk, yeah, um, and take that risk, yeah, and there was so much excitement for me because I wasn't being confined into this corporate entity anymore. I was on my own and I knew, all these years down deep, I wanted to be on my own, but he was, um, the type of person that is very I'm going to stay at a company for a hundred years, yeah, and that wasn't me. I'm like, oh no, I want to make more money. I'm going to leave a company and ask for like 10,000 more a year.

Speaker 2:

That's how you get those big pay increases is when you take that gamble and that was always me and he didn't like that. So, you know, during that time, that was the icing on the cake of of the divorce is me taking a gamble and, you know, losing the job but yet going after something that I really wanted to do and just really working my tail off because, again, I was going to show him what I could do and I did. Oh boy, did I show. And it feels so good to this very day, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Now. So you created, um, something kind of for yourself. Uh, once, like all of that was done, so again you've been able to just kind of Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

You know, I'm always planning for myself. Every, even on a weekly basis, I'm always planning.

Speaker 1:

What's my?

Speaker 2:

next step, what's my next goal? You know I, I, I think that's important that we're always looking 10 steps ahead. You know I, I, I think that's important that we're always looking 10 steps ahead. You know we can't change the past. We can't fix anything. That past has made me who I am today.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Am I perfect? Oh Lord, no. I have so much growth and so much potential and I don't even know what that is. But every week I'm always looking for what are my next steps? How can I help people on my next steps? Who needs to help me with my next steps? You know it's it's a big, beautiful circle of life that we go through and and um.

Speaker 2:

I think that's the important thing, that, even though you're going through that tough journey of divorce or contemplating it, like I said, I have so many friends contemplating it right now and they're so scared and and I'm trying to really help them understand, look, I'm here for you. I'm not going anywhere, yeah, so you need me. You call me. However, you need me. Yeah, I'm going to help you through this journey. I'll introduce you to people. You know, what can we go do? Let's go do yoga. Let me, what can I do to help your mindset today? You know, from all those stages, I think just the important thing is to just just really be there for people and be there for yourself, yeah, and always plan your future. Plan your future. As sad and difficult as it is to lose that person, you know I have many friends that are still really good friends with their exes. Yeah, that's great. You know that wasn't going to happen for me, just because of some of the things that happened, but that's great, that's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Everybody has a different journey, but I think we just all need to understand. It is okay. Yeah, there are no set rules to how your life is supposed to happen. Set rules to how your life is supposed to happen. You make those rules and you choose those paths to walk on and walk through. And you know what, my gosh, I hope, I hope everybody can skip on those paths. Let's skip to our future. Let's be happy, let's smile, let's make a difference in our lives and our kids' lives and family and our friends. You know that's.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think the big thing about life is leaving a legacy and I know that, with my son, he's going to look back someday when his dad and I are no longer here and go wow, they did a great job at divorce. They may have not liked each other very much, but they sure made my life comfortable with it. Not liked each other very much, but they sure made my life comfortable with it. Um, and to me, that gives me peace, knowing that you know my friends that have watched my journey, or whatever. You know, it's just leaving a legacy and doing what you want to do in life and accomplishing your goals, and if divorce has to be a part of you being happy, then you know what? Guess what?

Speaker 1:

of you being happy, then you know what? Guess what? It's okay, yeah, okay, I love that, I love that. You, you know, have said several different times, you know, whether it was a negative thing or a positive thing like, and it's okay. And I think that's the biggest thing that people need to know, that we're all on this journey, we're all on our individual journey and it's okay. Like you're going to have bumps in the road, and that's okay. Like you're going to have bumps in the road and that's okay. And you're going to have great days, and that's okay. And you're going to have bad days, that's okay too, like you can, you know.

Speaker 1:

But I think the biggest thing, you know, the biggest theme that I I wouldn't even say the biggest thing, but one of the themes that continues to come through is, you know, asking for that help. Because we, as women me, me included we have such a hard time asking for help because we just want to do it ourselves, we just want to be independent, we don't need anybody, especially when you're going through a divorce You're like, well, screw you, then I don't need you, I don't need anybody, I'm fine, you know. But I think the biggest thing to remember is you do actually need people. You do. You do actually need to reach out and ask for help, and it's okay to ask for help. You don't have to do it all.

Speaker 2:

Here's a funny story about asking for help. I just met with a girlfriend my mentor. I mentioned earlier that I've known for years and it's really funny because, you know, being single, okay, and I'm at the age I have to get a colonoscopy, guess what. I need somebody to take me. Yeah, she needs somebody to take her. We're like, yes, we are colonoscopy buddies now, but you know little things like that. That. You know you, you you're going to go through if you don't have a partner.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Who's going to take you? You know I don't have family members in town to take me, or?

Speaker 2:

whatever so it's kind of funny, you do, you. You. You never stop asking for help, and I do think we get better at asking her for help Once we get older, even though we know we can handle so many things. I'm at the point in my life right now where I'm just like I'm asking for help. Yeah, you know. Hey, can you take me to my colonoscopy? Oh, my God, will you take me to mine? Yeah, I mean, we were having a margarita over. It was great. Yeah, we were so excited. Let's get it done in January. Okay, yeah, great, what day works for you? This works for me. Let me know when you schedule and then I'll let you know when I schedule. Yeah, just silly little things like that. You know you always. You know people, people. Just you know we need to help each other.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, because life is very challenging and we just need to be there for each other, you know, during whatever, whatever situation we're dealing with. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much. I really really appreciate you being so vulnerable, so open, you know kind of just walking us through your story, but also just you know giving so many like nuggets of wisdom. I just appreciate you, you know being so open and sharing of wisdom. I just appreciate you, you know being so open and sharing.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh. Absolutely. I appreciate the time. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. I just want to make sure that I'm honoring you. Is there anything else that you feel like you didn't cover or you didn't say or any anything else, and it you don't have to like think of something, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

There are a million things I could say right now. Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I just want to make sure you feel seen, heard, validated and that you got to say what you wanted to say, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

You know what I again the biggest point is that it is okay and you are not alone. Yes, I can't stress that enough. And you know, try to not be the victim, try to be that person, to just move on with your life, because life is precious and whatever you're going through now, it's your journey and it's it's going to help you so much, it's going to help you grow so much as a person.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree, I think recently I heard like a really good nugget of advice and it was like when you're going through something negative instead of going, why is this happening to me? It is. Why is this happening for me? Love it.

Speaker 2:

That's so true.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Everything happens for a reason. Yes. There's nothing more truer than that statement. Everything happens for a reason, good or bad, yeah. And you just have to embrace it and make it. Make it into the good, yeah, don't make it into a bad situation. Take it and make it good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much. Absolutely Thank you, yeah, and thank you everyone for tuning in. We'll see you next time on thrive and decide.