Thrive & Decide Guide to Divorce and Beyond

Overcoming Society's Expectations: Empowerment, Love, and Healing After Divorce

• Sarah Thress • Season 1 • Episode 10

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What happens when societal pressures lead us into life-altering decisions? Our guest bravely shares her story of marrying at 40, navigating the complexities of cultural expectations, and facing the heart-wrenching ordeal of a miscarriage with limited support. Her narrative is a powerful reminder of the courage it takes to prioritize personal happiness over fulfilling others' dreams. Her insights provide comfort and solidarity for those facing similar struggles, highlighting the often-overlooked strength required to break free from an unhappy marriage.

Before saying "I do," are we truly prepared for the lifelong commitments we're about to make? We shine a spotlight on crucial conversations every couple should have—finances, parenting, and the potential need for a prenuptial agreement. By sharing personal experiences of financial and emotional trials, we delve into the importance of understanding daily habits and achieving financial independence to safeguard against future conflicts. Our host brings to light the repercussions of being the primary financial supporter in a marriage and the importance of open, honest communication from the beginning.

Rediscovering life after divorce isn't just about survival—it's about thriving and fostering resilience in ourselves and our children. We discuss the multifaceted journey of healing, emphasizing mental health and the empowerment found in reclaiming control over one's circumstances. Our story explores navigating a challenging divorce while maintaining a positive environment for children, and the importance of a supportive community. We stress teaching future generations the value of independence and accountability, ensuring they are equipped to break free from cycles of dependency and lead empowered lives.

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.


Sarah Thress
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sarah:

Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide. This week I have a very brave and vulnerable individual that is going to share her divorce story. You know everyone's story is unique and I always let people know that. You know they can share as much or as little as they want to, and they can use their name or not, because people's names are not what is important in this healing process. Their story is what is important. So I just like to throw that out there so that if anybody listening is thinking, man, I'd really love to share my story, just know that you are free to share as much or as little as you want. You are also free to use your name, make up a name, whatever you'd like to do.

sarah:

Uh, the whole point of this is to help other women that are going through a divorce or the loss of a spouse to feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. So that is the whole idea behind this. So thank you so much for taking time out to share your divorce story, of course. So, um, yeah, I guess just kind of walk us through. I mean, clearly nobody ever goes into a marriage thinking, wow, this is going to be super cool for like three years and then I'm going to peace out because this is just my, this is my trial.

sarah:

Um, you know and I mean maybe people do, I don't know, I haven't ever met anybody that is just wanting a trial marriage, but, um, so I guess, just kind of walk us through, like you know your, your marriage, and then how it just kind of it, it turned and you know, I've I've had some people on the show that tell me like oh my God, I knew before I even got married that this was not the right person, but I didn't know it enough, like it wasn't clear enough for me to stop it, so I went on ahead and got married and thought everything was going to be better, and then, and then it wasn't. So, um, again, I just share that to just say you know, everyone's story is unique and I'd love to hear yours, of course.

guest:

Yes, well, so I met my ex and we quickly fell in love and I knew that because of my age I was probably 40 years old when I met him, I was probably 40 years old when I met him that, um, it was probably my last chance um at potentially having children, and so I think that was one of the things that kind of led me to the path of quick marriage. Um, and I think you know, we were probably together perhaps a year and I I was pregnant before we even got married.

sarah:

Wow and um, that was a wow, not as in judgment. That was a wow as in, like wow, you did move fast, like good for you.

guest:

Oh yeah, no, no, and we were trying, and, and the fact of the matter was I had a miscarriage the first time, um, and, quite honestly, during that process we weren't married. This is still in the beginning. We're dating, um, and we were trying to have children. Um, because of my age and because I've had a chronic hypertension my entire life, I knew I was going to be advanced maternal age, giving birth, and I have an OBGYN as a cousin who kept telling me you can't wait any longer.

guest:

And my own OBGYN kept saying you got to do something. If you're going to do something, it needs to be now, within six months. And then I had a miscarriage and I knew quite honestly during that time that I did not want to marry this person. But for religious purposes and the culture that I come from, I knew that my parents would be heavily disappointed in me if I didn't marry him. Yeah, so I proceeded to get married to him on the back porch of my home. Um, it was lovely, um, and I was six months pregnant. Seven months pregnant, yeah, um. And then we proceeded to have a full blown wedding later, after she was born.

guest:

Um, but I knew in that moment, because of the lack of support that I had from him during my miscarriage and the lack of prioritizing me over his um, two other children, um, I knew that, probably really early on. But when they say love is blind, it's blind, it's blind, yeah, it, it is truly. It blinds you and no matter, at that point I was, I was pregnant, so I knew in my heart right. I knew in my mind there's no turning back at this point. Um, my parents would never and you know you say my parents would never allow it. You're 40 years old, what the hell.

guest:

Go have your baby by yourself and fuck the man. But in my world you don't do that, and I'm first generation here and you still obey your elders, be it anyone, an aunt, an uncle, but in particular your parents. Um, this was a huge no, no for me. I mean, call me black sheep, yeah, um, because no one in my family did what I did. And then we were married for five years and I just I was fed up.

guest:

At one point I just said to myself is this the existence that I want to continue having the misery, misery? I was close to 230 pounds at five, three, and I've never been that weight in my entire. I was miserable, I was depressed. I didn't care. I ate away my emotions. Yeah, I ate until I was completely stuffed and then, when I was completely stuffed, I ate even more. Mm-hmm, you were eating your feelings. I was eating my feelings and I remember this as clear as day.

guest:

My father was not here, he was overseas, and I was FaceTiming him and I said I can't do this anymore and I said, please tell me that I have your support. And I did not mean financially, I didn't. I meant I needed his support. I'm going to cry, it's okay, but I needed his support emotionally. I needed him to tell me it's okay that you're doing this because, quite honestly, I was still in that path of I need to do as my parents tell me to do. So if he tells me not to divorce my husband, I'm not going to do it yeah, but he said he would support me and even my mother said she would support me in this, which was quite surprising because we come from a very religious background and for us it was.

guest:

It was that was important for me to have both of their supports and, quite honestly, I lived in misery and didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell not a soul about the misery that I was living in. My parents didn't know. My best friends didn't know. My cousins didn't know who I grew up with, as my family didn't know. My cousins didn't know who I grew up with as my family. No one knew the amount of misery that I was going through and the fact that he wasn't prioritizing me ever and the only time he gave me emotion was during sex. The only time he showed me affection or support, Support what support? He didn't give me, support of any kind and I'm just talking emotionally right now but he didn't give me even financial support, so I did everything on my own.

guest:

I took him and his two children into my home initially, which ended up being too small for us, and then we ended up moving. So I ended up purchasing a home later that had more space for all of us, dollar for dollar. In his kid's savings, in my kid's savings, in my savings, I was the one paying for mortgage, I was the one that was paying for vehicles, I was the one that was paying for the entirety, right, yeah. And there was a certain point where I was like and there was a certain point where I was like what the fuck is going on? Right now, I had to step out of my body for a minute and look at myself and say this is not you. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this for a person that keeps, when you try to keep, getting back up, he stomps you back down into the ground and then allows his children to do the same thing. And you've got a baby. Yeah, what are you doing?

sarah:

I know well, but you're, you're true. Back to your point. Love is blind, love was completely blind and you just, you just do what you need to do to survive, and then it's not until later on. Once, once you've gotten into like okay cool, like now I'm out of fight or flight mode, now I'm just in like survival mode, and but once you stop and you take a second, you're like holy shit, why, why, why am I being this doormat? Why am I, you know, like being the ATM for these people and why do I feel like this is all my responsibility when none of my needs are met? Yeah, but you don't see that when you're in the moment.

guest:

Totally get it, don't, don't, don't, you're never seen. And and here is I don't know what clicked. I honestly don't, because he had made me and not I do not have low self-esteem had made me, and not I do not have low self-esteem, but I did. During our marriage he caused me to have low, low self-esteem. I did not. I mean there were low thoughts, but I knew I had a baby. Yeah, she, she needed me and I'll be damned if I was going to let this man and his children treat me like this.

guest:

So there was a straw and I asked him to get out and I gave him a deadline and I said you will get out. And his parents were visiting at that time and they helped him move out and he did, and they knew that we were having marriage problems because they were staying with us, uh, frequently, right, um, and I would open up to them and I would tell them, um, and they would talk to him and, quite honestly, he just didn't listen, yeah, and that made me feel like I wasn't important enough and I was like I am important enough. There was a point where I just said and my daughter's important enough. I'll be damned if I'm going to allow this man to for me not to prioritize me but then to do the same shit to my daughter? No, yeah, absolutely not. And I put my foot down and he got out and, um close to probably two years later, we were divorced.

guest:

I paid for all attorney costs during that time. Uh, because I threw him out, he filed bankruptcy. I had, during our marriage, co-signed a loan um for him to consolidate some debt which I ended up having to pay that completely off um $20,000. I ended up having to pay all on my own because he filed bankruptcy and I co-signed my fault. So if I could give any advice, it would be there is light at the end of the tunnel. But prenup, prenup, prenup, if you're going to do something, don't rush into anything. Prenup, prenup, if you're going to do something, don't rush into anything. Love isn't everything. You need to talk about finances ahead of time. And I remember during our marriage he would ask why don't we combine our checking accounts? Don't do that, no.

sarah:

I've never had a combined checking account.

guest:

Don't do that, Absolutely do not do that. And prenup, even if you think, well, I don't have anything, you never know. Down the road you could own your business and half of that is his, half of the house is his and you could be a male listening, I'm not saying vice versa. It can go both ways. So you never know. The one person could own a bunch of properties and have a lot of liquidity, but you know, you just never know what happens down inside your marriage. You can become this very successful person and, quite honestly, you could come, you can inherit money.

guest:

Yeah, that half of it would be your husband or your wife's in a divorce and that's not your choice to make, right? So in my divorce, I decided to do a disillusion. I knew he didn't have any money. He just filed bankruptcy, right, right. And I knew he didn't have any money, he just filed bankruptcy, right, right. And I ended up just paying his debt consolidation. And oh, by the way, this was like the third or fourth time during our marriage, which was only five years, that he had to consolidate debt. Um, our, yeah, so anyway.

guest:

Um, this man was, I knew, was never going to be financially well off. He was never going to be able to support himself and his children. I knew that. So I did a dissolution and I hired an attorney who I ended up paying all costs for and during the negotiations, like I said, that was two years of two and a half, maybe years of negotiations and all attorney costs were paid by me. So that was suffocating for me. It was horrible. And at that time he didn't have visitation of my daughter Not that he ever supported her from the get-go. It was always me Financially, emotionally, everything, I mean. Even today, I was cutting her nails and he never does that.

sarah:

Yeah.

guest:

And he never reads to her and he never tries to better her for the world. I want her to be. I have a religious background, so I want her to be religious. I want her to believe in God. Well, one day he said, just out of the blue I don't believe in God, and so you can believe in whatever you want to believe in. It doesn't have to be God. I understand that there are different, but for me, I want her believing that there is a God. Yeah, hence the reason she goes to a school that talks about God. Right, she goes to a school that talks about God, right, um, but it doesn't. It's not just about the religion piece, it's about, I know her reading skills aren't where they need to be, so I work on them with her. Instead, he has her playing video games and playing on her iPad. Well, I think there needs to be a limit on her iPad.

guest:

Our parenting differences were extreme. They were extremely different. Mine were very strict and structured, and he thought that bad behavior should not have consequences, and I know there are a lot of people out there that believe that too. I get that, but we were not there.

guest:

So before you get married, prenup, talk about finances, keep them separate and talk about your parenting, because you need to be on the same page. If you're going to have children, you might not have children, but if you're going to have children or dogs even because that goes for the same thing the training piece of it he left it all to me need to discuss, prior to engaging in a lifelong commitment with someone that you're going to live with, cleanliness, live with them beforehand, right, live with them beforehand. And if you're going to get married, then prenup, because then you get to know their daily habits. You get to know, oh, he doesn't pick up his underwear and if you're okay with it, fine, I wasn't, I'm a very clean person. He would literally leave cups and plates by the bedroom door and step over them to get downstairs and then I would take them down.

sarah:

Wow, he really had it good. I don't think he understood.

guest:

That's what I thought when I came, when I came out of my cloud of love.

guest:

I finally came to the realization. I was like he really doesn't know, and even if I told him, he wasn't going to understand. So I feel like that's something people need to know too. When people say the zebra is not going to change its stripes, it's not no matter what you say to them or how much you love them or how much you feel like. Whatever you do or buy or put into savings for their kids, like I did, it's not going to make him love me anymore. It's not going to change his behavior. It's not going to make him give me the support that I wanted, which was emotional, not financial. That's all I was asking for and the support in prioritizing me. I'm not saying that I was better than his children, but I was taught God right, and then yourself, and then your your marriage Right.

sarah:

So at any rate, um so clearly you were the breadwinner in you know, in your marriage, and then, unfortunately, during the divorce, you also were the financial person involved in that. Now, a lot of times what we hear in divorce is that you know, the male has to pay spousal support or child support or whatever. I have to imagine that it might be a little bit different. Um, in your you know, in your situation, do you now have to pay spousal support or child support? Or you know how did you guys go about that Cause? I'm sure that was not an easy thing for you. I mean, it took two and a half years to even get to that point. So I'm sure none of this was easy, because nothing about divorce is easy.

guest:

Correct. Um, yes, um. There were so many negotiations and so much money and I had a terrific attorney she was fantastic. But the problem was he wasn't giving in and I knew he was never going to have money. And I knew that if and towards the end was where he brought up the fact that he wanted to sue me for child support.

guest:

And I thought I know this person because I've lived with him for five years and knew him one year prior, right Two years prior prior, and I knew that this man was never going to be financially stable enough to do. And so for me, and he had two children still from another marriage and this new child. So I thought, for the betterment of my own child, I would give in to whatever he wanted so that I wouldn't have to pay child support and just say I'll pay for pretty much everything in regards to my daughter in order to avoid child support. And there is a very serious reason behind that. I knew that if I paid him 500,000, whatever it is a month it would go towards his habits of eating and his other children who still hadn't been to college, right, or to whatever. Yeah, but he's a very selfish man.

guest:

It was a very um one-sided and he, you know, during our marriage he made me believe that I was um wrong. He made me every single time we had an argument I was wrong. That's incorrect. No, that's crazy. And when your self-esteem is so low, you start believing it. So I, honestly, I'm thankful and I'm blessed, because God fate, whatever you want to believe it was. For me it was God right. He helped me see outside of that cloud and be like you are. Are you crazy? What are you doing? It was almost as though God slapped me across the face and said get out.

sarah:

Yeah.

guest:

I know that you're not supposed to in your religion to get divorced, but get out. This man doesn't appreciate you and his children don't appreciate you and he's teaching them to not appreciate you. And then I thought my daughter's not going to appreciate me because everyone around me in my family is not appreciating what I do. Yeah, she needs to see a happy mom, a happy, healthy, and appreciate the stuff that I can do for her. So if I was going to give into the custody, I knew that my funds were not going to go to support my daughter. So I agreed to pay for extracurricular. I have her in private school Now I have um help with that. I I uh go through a program called ed choice. That um allows me to get some support for her tuition.

guest:

Um, ed choice, and I don't know how many people know about this. I was going to say I would love for you to talk about that. Yeah, this is, this is important because I'm getting high quality education right now for my daughter. Um, she's learning, she's in kindergarten, she was learning multiplication and addition and, uh, she already knows in first grade how to write in cursive, which they don't teach anymore. Right, um and um. So anyway, at any rate, ed choice.

guest:

They have two options for you. It it could be um, they could analyze your financials to see if you qualify for a higher amount in a scholarship for for from EdCho. You're living in a failing school district, you qualify, and it pretty much gives me half of her tuition right now. Yeah, so, uh, her tuition is like 13,000 and um, they pay for six, 6,600 of that. Ed choice, no matter what my, my um income is, as long as I'm in a failing, which is my sole reason for purchasing a home in a failing school district. Yeah, so that I could continue to send her there and I'll do whatever it takes. Little by little, I put money away so that I have enough to send her again next year, and if I can't, we'll figure things out.

sarah:

Yeah, but I love that and I didn't even know that that existed and that's good to know that you know. If somebody you know, maybe, is living in a situation you know their marital home is in a location that is not a failing school district passing, then they could move into a failing school district. There are some to choose from around here. We won't mention them, but there are some that they can choose from and they could then look into this ed choice and be able to send their child somewhere else.

guest:

Yeah, their child somewhere else, yeah, and so I think the thing that I would say is and I pay for her to go to, um, our language school. I'm not going to say, but I pay for her to go there so that she could learn our native language. And, um, I pay for her to go to a private school and I'm grateful. I you know going through the process and paying my attorney, and each time I would get an invoice I'd be ticked off and I would be like fucking bastard and yeah, no, there is an end to all of this. Okay, it fucking costs me all that shit, but you know what? I have my daughter. I have my happiness now she's got a quality education. Things keep happening that are benefiting me now, more so than when I was married. Right, good things are happening, great job. My daughter's got a high quality education.

guest:

I found EdChoice for, crying out loud in the first year that I was offering that. They were offering it at her school and, quite honestly, something in my head said you're never going to get approved for this. You're never. Yes, you are, because the traditional doesn't matter what income you're making. Wow, they offer it if you live in a. And I only did it because when I got out of my marital home and we sold it, I moved into a failing school district, columbus. So it was. You know, if you're living in Columbus, look into it and you want to send your children to a high quality school, you can probably do it. Yeah, and the income based one is nice because you can play around with a calculator and you can choose either. So if you're a W two person, you can choose, like if you're incented on your work that you do, let's say you get bonuses you can use your pay stubs to qualify for your income, your tax returns or your W-2s, depending on what's like less.

sarah:

What's going to be the best?

guest:

Right, right, and so you can play around with it.

guest:

It's really nice, I haven't done it. But I had another parent who was talking to me about it and she was doing it. It's really nice. Uh, I haven't done it, um, but I had a? Um, another parent who was talking to me about it and she was doing it. But, um, the thing that I would say to people who are afraid of going through divorce, there's support out there, there are people, there are friends and, more so than not, people understand.

guest:

Maybe people don't talk about it because in our society, everyone, and you see it, it's on Facebook, it's in social media oh, my husband, this, my wife, this. Look at my children. Oh, a straight A's. It's not behind the scenes, things are going on. I'm telling you. There are people who have been married for 40 years that are getting divorced. It was never right, and what I'll say is it's because they're living in that mentality of divorce is not acceptable. It's not good. But you know what? Is it good for my mental health? It was in my case. It was for my mental health I needed to get out of there and for my daughter's mental health future.

guest:

She was young, so it was good, right? So she didn't know. She didn't know, yeah, and she doesn't remember us. But then you run the risk of he was the emotional one in our relationship. He cried a lot and I knew it. So after I threw him out and he had visitation rights with her afterwards he would cry with her and say I wish we were all in the same house. So then she would come back.

guest:

And so you have to filter that somehow. You have to just make them understand that that's not going to happen and it was because it wasn't a good situation for you and it wasn't a good situation for me. Honey, we can't ever be in the same house ever again. You have to explain it so this young child understands. And she still brings it up to me because she remembers those conversations after the fact. So do I want her to live through that turmoil? No, and I don't want her to see me that way. No, an unhappy parent, yeah, all the time. I want her to see that thriving, confident, successful, independent. You can do this on your own. It's not a big deal, you can do it. You can make it happen and there's ways. Yeah, ed, choice is one of the reasons why I'm here. Yeah, and she's in a great school. Yeah, everything kind of fate, god, whatever placed things in my way to make things positive after the divorce. It seems like they're not going to be, but they are. Yeah, there's light.

sarah:

Yeah.

guest:

And you've experienced it.

sarah:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I still remember when I first started going through my divorce. I was so ashamed, I just felt like a failure. I didn't even tell anyone in my office that I was getting a divorce. For six months I continued to wear my ring, I continued to go into work and just act like everything was great. I would go home and I'd act like everything was great and I'd put, you know, my daughter to bed and then I would sob uncontrollably for hours in the fetal position on my bathroom floor and I'd get up and repeat every single day for a year. And then I started slowly talking about it and realized, oh, okay, this isn't that scary. And oh, people do. Actually, you know, they've been through this.

sarah:

I'm not the very first person to ever get a divorce, nor am I the last. And I learned, you know, like just all of the things that I had let go of. I, you know, just like you, I went into the marriage very confident and very capable and then, slowly, my self-esteem went away to the point that I didn't even recognize my self. Yeah, sets in, yeah. And then I was like Holy crap, like I just really became a whole nother person. Like this sucks. Um so yes, so to your point. You know I love that now your daughter gets to see a confident, competent, successful mom who made the right choices. And even if it is ugly for a little bit when she goes to see her dad and he's crying about it and whatever, eventually she's going to know the truth and she's going to understand it. You don't even have to say it, she's just she's going to see it. Yeah.

guest:

Yeah, I don't have to say anything. Uh, he does, on his end he does and his kids do, and that's okay. At this point I need the women, the men out there to know there is life after divorce.

sarah:

Trust me.

guest:

You may not want to date right away, but divorce is acceptable, especially if it means your mental health is going to be 100% better. Your mental health is going to be 100% better. I'm telling you, I lost 60 pounds as soon as I threw him out of the house. I just started cleaning and getting rid of things, because my intent was to sell this huge home that we all lived in. I wasn't going to live there with my daughter, and so I ended up getting rid of things and you know, you start doing spring cleaning and you're moving around, you forget to eat and you just, I just, and I felt good, I felt like I was accomplishing things, and I knew deep down.

guest:

Maybe I didn't say my say it to myself at that time, but I knew deep down right then, and there I was doing what was better for her and I was doing what was better for me at that moment, but I learned it later. You keep thinking, even through the negotiations with your attorney and everything. You're like there's not life, it's dark, it's all bad, it's not, though. Open up to somebody that knows and has experienced it, because there is light at the end of the tunnel and it doesn't mean that you have to. What I would say is don't talk about it with your children, about how you hate that man or you hate that woman.

guest:

That's another thing, because I don't want her to see me in that light. I don't want her to see me hating her father. I do not want to be that person, and if he does, that's okay, and if his kids want to, that's okay. But I'm not going to be that person that's bad-mouthing the other one. I'd love to have a better co-parenting situation, but it is what it is now. Yeah, and there are times where you have to just bite your tongue and not say anything, especially through the negotiations, when you're going back and forth with the attorneys. You have to just bite your tongue at that moment and not say anything wrong. But there is positivity behind it all. Definitely, as long as you can lift yourself out of that cloud of love what you thought was love and know that there can be success.

sarah:

Definitely it's almost like you're on. Um, I always tell people you're kind of on a roller coaster and you know, some days are going to be like you're going to go down low, and some days you're just going to feel so low and that's okay, cry it out, lean into it, feel those feelings fully, because then the next day you can pull up your big girl panties and you can move on, and then it's going to go up and like, eventually your highs get higher, your lows don't get as low and you start to kind of even out a little bit. But it's a process, you know, you're never just going to. It's not a light switch, it's not a you know, there's not just some quick fix at all.

sarah:

So you know, obviously you know that, know that, um, when you were going through it, did you have like good friends that you could turn to, or did you have people that maybe even? What I find too in talking with people is that sometimes they lose friendships over it, because either they were friends with both you know both spouses and they don't know they don't want to choose a side or they do choose a side, or they're just like what. I don't know, they don't want to choose a side, or they do choose a side, or they're just like well, I don't know what to say Like I'm super uncomfortable.

guest:

Yeah, I guess I would say that I because a lot of my family were my friends I didn't lose any friends. I will say that during the chaos of the marriage, none of my family kind of knew what I was going through. I kept it silent. But if you're in that kind of relationship where you feel like you can't tell people or you're putting on a facade for some reason, Um, you know, I was doing that.

sarah:

I was doing.

guest:

I was one of those people. I was like, oh, my husband's excellent, he's helping me with this and fuck, no, he wasn't right, you know. But don't do that, but open up to someone and talk to them, because they're going through similar things for sure. If you have a trusted friend that you can talk to, um, I, I, I know that that you will get that support that you need, um, but I, I didn't lose anybody. But what I will say is um, even now, those friends who are my family, um, those friends who are my family, um, are telling me what a strong person I was, even though I doubted myself during the process. I doubted how could I get through this process? It's so horrible. I'm divorced, I have a baby, I don't have anywhere to live, I, you know, there it was. It was a seller's market then and not enough inventory, so it was like I selling my house that I can't afford anymore, and you know so there were a lot of bad things that you went through. But, um, if you can open up to someone and talk to them, that's what's really key. Even if it means going to to someone and talk to them, that's what's really key. Even if it means going to a counselor. Talk to them.

guest:

If you feel like you can't trust the people that are around you because they're also friends with your partner, then talk to somebody else, because you can do this on your own. But in that moment that you're going through all this chaos, you probably don't think you have the strength to do it. But you can I think it was God, but at any, because I didn't go to a counselor and then I did have the support. I can't tell you how many times some of my best friends were telling me you're the strongest person that I know. You get knocked down, you get back up, you get knocked down, you get back up Every single time.

guest:

I've noticed you don't ask for anything, you just continue going on your path and no one ever supports you, but you just keep doing it. Somehow you have a negative thing happen, something blacks you out, punches you out, and you get back up and you do it and you just find a way. And it's true. I look back on my past in those moments. There have been several times where I've been knocked down, punched down, and you think she's not getting back up, right? No, she is. I am. It was me. Hello, yeah.

sarah:

So, yeah. Yeah, well, and I, um, I loved that. Um, you know, before we started recording, you had made a comment about how you know, here you were trying to help your ex and you know he just was just pushing you down and pushing you down and pushing you down, Like you know. I don't know if you remember what you were talking about, but if you wanted to repeat that. It was so powerful.

guest:

Yeah, there were times I literally I recall this, and there was one time in particular and his parents were visiting. At that time I was on my knees and I was in tears and I was like you keep stomping on me. I used that. I used that phrase because I wanted him to know I am the dirt beneath your feet. You make me feel like that. I don't understand how somebody who does so much for you, how can you continue to put your foot on top of my head? Every time I try to get a deep breath, you're pushing me down underneath the water. Let's just say to use another, use another phrase. Because he was drowning me and I remember going through marriage counseling.

guest:

We had three marriage counselors in that time frame, in the five years that we were married. I told the last counselor that we were with. I said I've got one kid on my left side choking me with their arms around me. I've got the other kid, his kid on the right side of me. He is choking me from the back, so he's got his hands on my neck, holding me on the front and then my daughter, who's just a baby, is on my leg, who is dependent on me. So where do I go from here? Because they're choking the air dependent on me. So where do I go from here? Because they're choking the air out of me, yeah, but my daughter needs me, but they're choking me. So now, what do I do? I've got to get out of this choke hold, but there are three people who are choking me. That's how I felt. Um, I know, I know that sounds so drastic, but that's how it is yeah.

guest:

Uh, you know how they say the ball and chain. It wasn't a ball and chain, it was. People's hands were literally choking me out of the air. I felt like I did not want to live anymore. I hate to say that, because that's the worst thing that God would want me to say is that you don't want to live anymore. I hate to say that because that's the worst thing that God would want me to say is that you don't want to be in this world anymore. But there was reason for me to live my daughter.

sarah:

Yeah, but I think that it's okay to recognize that you had that feeling and honor that feeling and also know that you didn't make that choice and you know you grew from it. So you know, I want to make sure that like you know anyone that's ever felt that I mean I've felt that way where I'm like, oh my God, I just want to fucking crawl into a hole Like I can't, but I think the important thing is when you feel that.

guest:

It's not that you don't want to live anymore, it's you don't want to live like this anymore, you don't want to live in that chaos. It's not that you don't want to live in this world. There is another world that you can live in, apart from that chaos there is. Yeah, I think that's where I don't know where that strength came from, because I was there, right, I was feeling like I don't want to live anymore, but I know I have to live for my daughter. I guess I know where it came. I knew that if I didn't do something, he wasn't going to be there to support her in the manner that I could. And I'm not talking financially, I'm talking about to be there to support her, to do the things for her that she needs, to help her, along with her education. And I'm not just talking private education, fuck that, even if she didn't have private education. I'm talking supporting her where it's needed, not sitting her in front of a fucking TV, right. I'm talking about being an actual parent and teaching her to be independent.

guest:

I watched him throughout our marriage and he would. His kids would forget cleats and they would forget Chromebooks or Chrome chargers and he would take. He would drop whatever he was doing at work, leave his work and go, take it to school. No, I'm the type of parent where I'm like you forget it, then you get in trouble. Sorry, you suffer the consequences with your teacher or whoever, whatever it is. If you can't, then I'm sorry, that's your problem. You forgot your cleats? You can't play football, then that's your problem. Sorry, then my daughter, if she forgets her dance shoes, that's your problem. I'm sorry. Well, she's too young now, but I'm just saying the problem is we, we in today's society, we provide too much for our children in that manner. Right? We get their lunches, we get their bags, we get everything. She forgot her water bottle. I said is it mommy's responsibility to get your water bottle? It's not mommy's responsibility, right? So I'm trying to teach her right now to be the most independent in charge leader, woman of the new world, right?

guest:

Like we have to we have to teach, even if it's not a girl. I'm just saying these boys who are dependent on their moms and and they're doing everything for them right yeah which, raising another generation of mama's boys.

guest:

This is what I'm saying. So I don't want my daughter growing up thinking that mom's always going to be there to provide or remember to grab my socks, or to grab my shoes, or to grab my water bottle. I want her to be an independent, strong woman so she doesn't end up in the same situation that I did. Yeah, and if she does okay, that's okay. Yeah, but she can lift herself out of that chaos. Yeah.

sarah:

I think that's such a really, really good point too, and I, you know, thank you so much for being so vulnerable and sharing that Um. But I think that's such a good thing for women and men that are going through this process to remember that, if there are children involved, children are watching and they're going to see what you do and, even though you don't want them to have to go through what you went through, maybe they're going to end up going through that and that's okay. Again, we just need to normalize that. Whatever you're going through, that's okay because you're going to get through it.

sarah:

But to your point, by you helping to raise a strong, independent woman if she was to get in a situation like that because we all hope that you know our children make better choices than we did and they don't have to go through this and all that blah, blah, blah. But you know, knowing that she saw a strong, independent woman pull herself up, become, you know, that person that you know, even if she doesn't remember you as the, you know, pushed, beat down woman, she's going to just see this positive person, and so I think that's, you know, definitely a strong point to make sure that people that are listening, understand that your kids, whether they're you know talking to you or not, they're watching they're seeing what you're doing and they're learning from you.

guest:

Yeah, I will say, uh, I think it may have been my mother because she went through it Right. I think it may have been my mother because she went through it Right. And I recall that, um, I hate to say it, but my father had cut her off financially, right, and she was, um, you know, in a different country, not where she grew up. Um, she had two children. So what did she do? She was like I can lay down and play dead, and then what happens to my children, right, or will I have my children, you know, in my home with me, living with me, if I don't step up to the plate and do something? She got three jobs. She paid for the mortgage, she paid for groceries, she paid for us to do extracurricular activities.

guest:

She did what she had to, yeah, and so I think, in watching that, like you said, my daughter is watching everything that I do. Well, so did I. I watched it and she went through. It was a difficult divorce and it was way unacceptable back then in our culture and our religion and in our society. Even, yeah, still, it was unacceptable to be divorced, right, and to watch her do that, I think, gave me the strength to go through my own divorce and know that it was going to be okay. She made it through. She made it through very successfully.

sarah:

So, yeah, I love it, made it through. She made it through very successfully. So, yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for being so open, so vulnerable, um, and just so gracious to share your story. I really appreciate it and I guarantee that you know someone listening, or multiple people listening are. You know they're getting something from this and you are helping to heal other women just by by talking.

guest:

Glad to help. Thanks, excellent.

sarah:

Thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you so much, and thank you so much for tuning in and I will see you next time on thrive and decide.