Thrive & Decide Guide to Divorce and Beyond

Crafting a Future After Marriage Ends

• Sarah Thress • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Tara Crossley's life took a sharp turn when her husband's traumatic brain injury led to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Join us as Tara takes us through her emotional path from marriage to separation, sharing the profound challenges and personal growth she experienced along the way. Her story is a raw and honest reflection on the realities of living with mental illness in a relationship and the bravery it takes to prioritize the well-being of one's family above all else.

Facing constant conflict and public outbursts, Tara made the tough decision to separate for the sake of her children. Our conversation covers her journey through divorce, emphasizing the importance of addressing unfounded accusations and avoiding gaslighting. Despite the end of her marriage, Tara holds respect for her former partner and recognizes his role as a good father. She shares her insights into navigating financial settlements, co-parenting, and maintaining amicable relations, illustrating the importance of stability and planning for a balanced future.

In this episode, we also tackle the often daunting topic of financial literacy, especially for women undergoing significant life changes. Tara shares her experience managing post-divorce finances and stresses the importance of understanding and controlling one's financial situation. From creating a stable environment for children to the significance of peaceful transitions, Tara's journey offers valuable lessons in personal growth, financial independence, and crafting a new path beyond marriage. Tune in to gain thoughtful guidance and encouragement for anyone navigating similar life transitions.

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.


Sarah Thress
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Sarahthressrealtor@gmail.com
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Real Estate Podcast Come To Find Out:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-to-find-out/id1704949604

Real Estate First Time Home Buyers course: https://sarahthress.graphy.com/

Speaker 1:

Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide. This week, we are talking with Tara Crossley, who is a local real estate agent in Connecticut and parts of Rhode Island, and I found her on social media. I've been following her for a while and I noticed that she is very open with sharing her divorce story, and so I reached out to her and asked if she'd be willing to, you know, come on and share her story because, again, you know, as, as you all know, I think that knowledge is power and knowing that you're not alone is huge. So, tara, thank you so much for taking time out to meet with me.

Speaker 2:

You are welcome. This is very exciting. I love podcasts.

Speaker 1:

Me too, me too. So yeah, so again, thank you for coming on and I appreciate your willingness, you know, to just kind of open up and share. So would you mind kind of just sharing, you know, in a nutshell, like just kind of like your marriage and divorce story so that people can kind of understand you know what, what transpired in your life?

Speaker 2:

Sure, absolutely. So. I met my husband when I was about 20, almost 26. I think I was a single mom at the time, him and I, so I lived in. I live in a military area, so he was stationed here and I really loved him, like he. I had been in a couple of bad relationships. I felt like he was you know what I was looking for as far as willing to settle down and get married and have kids, and that's what we did. We got married and had kids. He actually is significantly older than I am he's 14 years older than I am and we were married for about 16 years, or together for about 16 years, and through that time we had definitely had our difficulties.

Speaker 2:

But then he fell off our roof and sustained a traumatic brain injury. Unfortunately and of course it was. You know, it was setting up Christmas lights actually. Oh gosh, yeah. So don't go on your roof during Christmas, don't go on your roof at all. Hire a professional for that. So he had even said to me that day you know I'm nervous about going on the roof and I said, well then, don't do it. And he still did it anyway and unfortunately he fell off, he broke his back, he sustained a traumatic brain injury and as a result of the traumatic brain injury, it was either coincidental, timing wise, or it was triggered by the traumatic brain injury. It was either coincidental timing wise or it was triggered by the traumatic brain injury.

Speaker 2:

But he became bipolar and there's two types of bipolar disorder bipolar one and bipolar two. He has bipolar one and unfortunately that is the worst of the two evils. And bipolar disorder is more common in men. More common in men in their late 30s to early 50s is when you are usually diagnosed with that and unfortunately it is degenerative. So I think about it all the time. People ask me this all the time Do you think you would still be married if it wasn't for bipolar disorder? I don't know, because so many other things have happened. So in that time, you know, I'm 43 years old now, I'm not 26 years old anymore. In that time I had reinvented myself several times by then in different careers, you know, getting motivated to be a healthy person, and sometimes he was on board with that and participated, and sometimes it just wasn't for him and that's fine.

Speaker 2:

But this last time I think, you know, when he really became at the height of his bipolar disorder, I was in a huge growth phase. Our little kids were getting ready to go off to school and I was really gonna be in a career transition and I decided to become a realtor and the switch from being at home to working outside of the home and being more independent financially was really really hard for him, much harder than I ever anticipated. I don't know if that triggered bipolar episodes or if you know, it's just timing in his life and advancement in his disease that caused like rapid cycling episodes, but life really became unbearable at home and it had gotten to the point where I said to myself I absolutely have to create a peaceful place for my children to be. They cannot grow up in a situation like this. But I also knew it's not anything I could just rip the bandaid off and do overnight. I knew I couldn't just tell them and then pack my stuff tomorrow and then have it be done. I had to plan financially for that, I had to plan mentally for that and in my heart for that.

Speaker 2:

So I did go to counseling. I'm the kind of person who's probably I've probably been in counseling off and on my whole life. Yeah, yeah, I mean I as soon as I'm hurting or I'm in a difficult situation, I go straight to counseling to help, you know, get help working it out in one way or another. And so I had had the same therapist for about five years and her and I had been going over this like really a lot in those five years and she was really educating me about bipolar disorder in general. I was educated by her that bipolar disorder is degenerative and not going to likely get better, it's likely going to get far worse, not going to likely get better, it's likely going to get far worse. And we were really kind of entering the realm where I was the glue holding everything together. So I was the barrier between, you know, a bipolar disorder resulting in a call to the police or DCF or hospitalization. Plus I'm trying to work, plus I'm trying to parent our young kids and shield them from this disaster, and it was just exhausting. I knew I couldn't do it forever, so I started making the plan to separate.

Speaker 2:

So first, obviously, I separated in my mind and just kept my eye on the goal of a peaceful separation and divorce, or as peaceful as it possibly could be, because when you're talking about mental illness and someone who can get off the rails very quickly belligerence. You know threats of violence, things like that, even if they're not violent, really you can know this person inside and out your whole entire life. You don't know that they won't get violent. Like nobody knows I mean, anyone who watches Dateline knows like there were signs. So in my mind I took that very seriously. You know he had never hurt me physically, he had never really even threatened me. He would get, he would advance on me when we were arguing and to me that was enough to tell me this could really reach another level at some point and I didn't want that to happen. So my main goal is kind of the same tack I take in um contentious real estate deals is to just constantly diffuse, diffuse, diffuse, diffuse, and when you can't diffuse anymore you retreat. So that is what I was doing the entire time, just trying to diffuse any very you know bombastic situations. And in the meantime I was saving money so that if it came to an emergency situation I could just pack up my kids and leave. I was hoping to be able to just use that money, you know, to move into a new home and ultimately that's what I was able to do with it. But I did have that money set aside in a place that he couldn't touch, in case I needed to make an emergency exit, in case I needed to make an emergency exit. So over this two years, I mean he can say all he wants that he was shocked when I finally left.

Speaker 2:

We definitely discussed separation on a multitude of occasions and it was not only because of the bipolar disorder, it was also because we were always opposites. But it came to the point where we were such opposites that we weren't complimenting each other anymore. It was like you know, a constant battle, constant adversity over silly things, like ridiculous things, like silverware, or you know the positioning of furniture in the house like silverware, or you know the positioning of furniture in the house. He was angry a lot of the time and it didn't make sense and unfortunately that's what bipolar disorder is. He would be angry at me for no apparent reason or he would be harboring feelings from something else that would come out in another way. And it could have been, you know, it could be in public. He might publicly embarrass me or himself. So it really just got to a point where I knew I had to make a move Once I was absolutely sure that this was the right choice and the right thing to do and I had enough money.

Speaker 2:

I came up with a plan basically to present to him and let him know that this was going to happen and that it you know this is happening. We're not working it out. I did not want to work it out. We had already done this. We had gone to counseling numerous times.

Speaker 2:

At this point, my object was to get into a house that I had complete control over and I could control the level of chaos in the house. I wanted a peaceful place for the kids to be orderly. I'm an orderly, regimented person so I wanted to keep that for my children. You know, law and order to me, not militant style, but we have a routine and I feel like it keeps kids calm and they know what to expect. And I just wanted that in place and in a place where somebody couldn't be constantly undercutting it or throwing a monkey wrench into it. So he was obviously very upset when I told him this was happening.

Speaker 2:

Um, and I gave him a couple of days to kind of just let it sink in. Um understand that you know there was no talking me out of it that this was the move we were making and then, of course, immediately he starts accusing me of being unfaithful. Of course you know I just that was never for me. If that, if you've done that and if you, if that was the demise of your relationship. I don't have an opinion on other people. I just saw other people doing that and I knew it wasn't for me.

Speaker 2:

I had enough, enough anxiety in my life that I wasn't going to add to it by adding a third person to the mix. I also didn't truly, truly, truly did not, believe my husband deserved that. I did not believe my children deserved that and I just was not interested in it. Like, I had so many other things on my plate and I just wanted to work this out and I knew it was going to be miserable. There was no question of that. He convinced himself. That was the thing I just kept saying I'm sorry to hear you believe that let's move forward because we have things to you know, we have things to work out.

Speaker 2:

So I just wouldn't stay on that topic of conversation and it's easy to be roped into gaslighting and I would say to anyone who goes through this just say I'm sorry, you believe that we need to move on to other things. Do not get roped into gaslighting. You can defend yourself to the high heaven. They're going to start twisting words. They're going to start using everything that comes out of your mouth against you and now you're defending yourself in a fake scenario. Yeah, I mean, if you did it, it's another story. I don't know how to work through that with you because I didn't do that. That wasn't my experience. But if you did not do something you're being accused of, don't spend any time on the conversation, shut it down and move on, because, I mean, everyone's fallen victim to gaslighting, and this goes for both men and women. You can say your story, your truth, to your blue in the face. It doesn't matter to that person. So don't even bother. You're not going to get the validation that you're looking for. So I didn't even feed into it.

Speaker 2:

To this day, two years out, he really does believe that I still did that. I asked him recently if he had any evidence. I said did you ever find the evidence that you were looking for? And he said no and I said well, I said I don't know what to tell you. I said, maybe if you didn't find evidence, it didn't exist to begin with, like this didn't happen. So we're in a much better place now. We still definitely are not each other's cup of tea, and that's okay.

Speaker 2:

And he also, you know he was not enjoying my company. I would say the last five years of our marriage either. He didn't like the things I did and said he didn't like my friends. He didn't want me hanging out with my family. He didn't want to participate in family functions or outings or double dates or a social life. I'm a very social person, so when I was doing these things he would come begrudgingly. But nobody wants someone sitting there like a lump who clearly is presenting to everyone else Hi, I didn't want to be here to begin with. I'm just here because she made me, so he can. I'm sure he, you know, was upset about the rejection, but he can't say he was enjoying my company. I know he loves me. I love him. I think he's a good person. He provided a wonderful life for me and my children. He's a good dad to our kids, bipolar disorder aside, but I just that marriage was never going to work forever. I'm carrying you guys with me, but I have to let my dog in.

Speaker 2:

So at the end of the day, the divorce was necessary and, like I was telling Sarah before we hopped on here, people ask me all the time what's a good reason for divorce, and I probably have the easiest, most generic answer you can have Um, wanting one is a good enough reason. Number one you do not want to be married to someone who does not want to be married to you. So it's happening on the other end and the your partner is unhappy in the relationship, not necessarily because you did anything. Just you know people grow in different directions, or they change their mind. Or, after living together for a decade, you might be like I can't take this anymore. I feel like wanting one and really wanting one, feeling it in your body, your soul, is a good enough reason to want a divorce. But certainly domestic violence, constant contention, and it's really a personal choice. If you want to spend, you know, a decade in counseling, trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, that is entirely up to you.

Speaker 2:

We had our rounds with counseling and I just knew this time I was really done and it wouldn't matter, you know, if things were good for a period of time because things would get good for a period of time I would say that I was going to leave and then he would be on good behavior for however long he could sustain that for, but he could only sustain it for so long before bipolar disorder, you know, had the house of cards tumble down. So I just knew, even if I wanted to stick it out, I couldn't do that for my kids. My kids needed a peaceful house to live in. So once the decision was made, um, he went from being very sad and very upset and begging me to stay to being absolutely seething with anger that I was leaving. Um, you know, and said all the normal things that people say to their partners and spouses when they don't want these things to happen You're cheating, you're trying to fleece me for financially, you're going to ruin my life, you're going to take everything I have. I was not interested in doing any of those things everything I have. I was not interested in doing any of those things.

Speaker 2:

Obviously, we'd been married for 16 years, so our assets were our assets and I wanted those to be devised in a way that didn't put either of us in the poorhouse. Like, what I said to him was we can each take 20 to $40,000 and pay attorneys. So now we're talking possibly $80,000 in attorneys or we can try to work this out, because at the end of the day in Connecticut it's a no-fault divorce state. Your assets and your debts are divided right down the middle and child support is a calculation. Child support is a calculation even if you have 50-50 custody. If income is inequitable, you get child support even if the custody is 50-50. So in our case we tried to do 50-50 custody but at the end of the day I am the primary parent, so it just didn't work out that way.

Speaker 2:

But the child support that was going to be ordered was ridiculous in my opinion. It was so much money Like I knew what our assets were, I know how much money he makes and I knew what all of our bills were. And there was just no way. I said if he is ordered to pay this, he's going to have to sell the house, get an apartment somewhere in a market that is crazy as far as rentals go. And now he's always at the mercy of potentially being, you know, displaced from his home because landlords are selling constantly and I don't want to see this 57 year old man end up in like an apartment complex at his age.

Speaker 2:

No, and I also did not, you know I didn't. I was leaving a marriage where a lot of bad things had happened, as of late, but I also still kept in mind that I loved him. I, you know him and I had many good years together. I did not want him to suffer on that level and I I knew I would recover financially a lot faster than he would because there's a 14 year age gap, um. So I didn't want to see him have to delay his retirement significantly or any of that. So I said, why don't we when thing when we can be calm, why don't we go over the numbers and see what can happen here? So, um, our assets more or less got split down the middle. I might have taken a little bit less, but it was something that I was comfortable doing.

Speaker 2:

And as far as child support goes, I ended up taking less child support because he wasn't gonna be able to pay the bills. Like that's crazy. It's crazy to take so much child support that the co-parent can't take your kids on an outing because they can't afford it. Like to me, that didn't make any sense and I wanted the kids to still have that house to go to. That was the house that they were raised in and that I elected to leave and he got that house. People say that to me all the time too. Why did you leave that house? I left that house. I've been cleaning that house for 16 years. I was done cleaning that house and I work so much I work 60 at times, I work upwards of 80 hours a week. I'm not going to maintain a big ass house like that. I was so over it.

Speaker 2:

I had already experienced the dream house, the move up house. All I was fantasizing about was a tiny little house on a postage stamp of a yard with a mortgage that was affordable to me, that I wasn't married to, so that I could do what I wanted for him Take my kids on outings, go on vacations, still live, still set aside for retirement. Sometimes people really do step over $5,000 to pick up a nickel and that house also had a 2% mortgage interest rate and I knew if he had to give that up it would really screw him. So what we did was we looked for a house within under a mile radius for me to live in with the kids, because that was the other thing. I live in a town that's 47 square miles, which is huge. It has three villages. If I even moved across town, that's a 20 minute drive between us. Imagine that after a 12 hour workday, you can finally get home with your kids and they're like mom I forgot my backpack at dad's yes. So we were just trying to figure out ways to mitigate our stress as much as possible and make it as pleasant as possible.

Speaker 2:

In a dumpster fire, of a situation as we could Now. With that said, there were several times we had gotten it all squared away and went to the mediator and then he came unhinged and was like nope, I'm getting an attorney. And then I would say, all right, let's take a minute, let's regroup and, you know, let the world turn for a day. If you still feel that way tomorrow, go ahead and get your attorney for a day. If you still feel that way tomorrow, go ahead and get your attorney, and then he would come back and realize you know, the attorney is what they do is, and I love attorneys, I work with them all the time. But divorce attorneys are a different breed than real estate attorneys a lot of the time. And for those of you who can do this without attorneys and use a mediator who is also an attorney, by the way, when you have two separate divorce attorneys, the first thing they do is they look at your financial affidavits so they, in their mind, they're calculating a bill they can run up. That is you're never going to win in that scenario. Most of the time. I'll say this If you're in a situation where you cannot avoid attorneys, really interview attorneys I would say interview three or four and ask them questions like what's the most important thing to you when you facilitate a divorce?

Speaker 2:

If they don't say your children, or if they don't say to keep it as uncontentious as possible or just to try to keep things level and try to keep the peace as much as possible, this is going to cost you a horrendous amount of money. Because if they're the kind of person who says I'm going to go in there like a bulldog and we're going to get this and we're going to get that and we're going to get them for this or we're going to get her for that, that is costing you money. Every single motion, every single court appearance, every single phone call, email text cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching. You want someone who is going to go to bat for you, absolutely, especially if you're dealing with a narcissistic spouse, someone who's very sneaky. But the other thing you want to ask is how do you handle certain situations? Because I've seen this go a couple of ways and you can tell me if you've seen this too With my friends and clients' divorces.

Speaker 2:

The ones that cost the most money are the ones where the opposing side does absolutely nothing, does not respond to a motion, does not answer phone calls, does not make any kind of move whatsoever. They sit on their hands and they let you do all the work, file all the motions, cost all the money, all of that. Those are like 20 plus thousand dollar divorces. The other ones that are the most expensive are the ones that are filing false restraining orders, poas, guardian at latums, dcf. When you're filing a motion based on pettiness, gaslighting and fear versus reality, then you can plan on a divorce like that costing you $30,000, $40,000. So you want to ask how they handle it, like I would say you know, mr and Mrs Attorney, how you. How are you going to handle it If his side or her side just doesn't respond to us? They need to have a strategy. And if they don't have a strategy, that's probably not your attorney, um, and they should be able to tell you, worst case scenario. How much should I expect this to cost me? There's definitely scenarios where you will need to have an attorney, but if you can avoid it, I'd encourage you to avoid it because you will recover financially much quicker without one.

Speaker 2:

Our divorce cost us $3,000. That's in 2020. Out one, our divorce cost us $3,000. That's in 2020. Where am I at 2022, a divorce cost $3,000. Yeah, you know that's unheard of, but at the end of the day, that happened because I was his third wife, so this was not his first rodeo. He knew if we got attorneys, we were both getting fleeced. There was no doubt about that and I just kept saying to him you can feel how you want to feel, but we're either both going to eat filet or we're both going to eat ramen Period, yeah, and I would rather both be eating filet and be able to fund our kids' college accounts, have something to leave them, maybe recover financially a lot faster, like be recovered in a year or two years versus 10 years. I have friends who have spent upwards of $50,000, $60,000 on divorce and they didn't win anything big over that.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes people's emotions get so wrapped up, especially if there was infidelity or, you know, one person did something you know. You know just bad to the other person financial abuse or whatever it was. It's easy to get carried away with emotions, but you have to keep your eye on the prize, which is your future. So keep your eye on the prize, no matter what this person has done and I know it's easier said than done but keep asking yourself is this serving you? Is this the best, is this the highest and best use of your time? I know you're angry, but is this the best use of your time? And take a minute, go for a walk, maybe do some exercise, call a friend, call your therapist or whatever, before you make a rash decision that costs you tens of thousands of dollars, because that's going to haunt you for the next five, 10 years. It doesn't make sense. Winning things like that are not wins. So I'll use another example.

Speaker 2:

I had a friend of mine who had a very contentious divorce. She was happy in the end, in a sense, because she had gotten alimony and I. She said I got $2,000 a month alimony. I said okay, that's $24,000 a year. How much did you pay for your divorce? $42,000. How long do you have alimony? For Two years, Wow. So I said okay, so your alimony paid for your divorce. That's not a win, you know.

Speaker 2:

In my mind and that was one of the things that I went over being married to my husband for such a long time was I eligible for alimony? Absolutely, but I can add numbers. I have a calculator on my phone. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I knew alimony plus child support, plus the cost of separating in general, because moving costs money and there's just other little things that you don't even think about. Like I'm taking stuff, he's going to need furniture, I'm going to need stuff. Moving itself costs around $10,000. So I could have gotten those things out of him. It would have rained misery on him for the longest time. I don't even know, you know, if he would have ended up being able to retire.

Speaker 2:

And you have to say to yourself, no matter what has happened, is this right? Is this right for my children? Is this right for me? Because it all circles back around. So you can do that to a spouse, but it all circles back around so they can't afford to live. Now they have two jobs. Well, now you have the kids far more than you ever imagined, and now you can't work as much as you wanted to. So I mean the offset it's all relative. You have to think, really you know about.

Speaker 2:

In my opinion, in every aspect of life, At work, in contentious situations peace wins. So if you can try to keep the peace, you're not losing anything by being the bigger person You're really not. You should take what's yours. I'm not saying you should just walk away from a lengthy marriage or a marriage where there's children penniless and I know people who do that too because they don't want to deal with a narcissistic ex who is just going to draw this out now. I always say no matter what is going on, follow the advice of a mediator or an attorney. Do not walk away penniless with everything you know that you have into a marriage and your assets and everything that you have worked hard for. But don't be so vindictive that you both end up losing. It just doesn't make any sense because really the people who lose the most when you do that it's not your ex, it's your kids. Every single time, every single time.

Speaker 2:

And I told him I said the absolute most important thing to me is that we are both able to parent our children affordably. You know they need to still have a sense of normalcy. They need to feel like you know, one or the other of us, or both of us, are not in just straight misery or feeling the financial stresses that we're going through. And I think, because I had thought this out so much, I don't have any regrets about how I went about this.

Speaker 2:

I had a lot of criticizers on the way saying different things to me, and on both sides I had some people saying, oh, 50-50 custody, you shouldn't take any money from him. Well, he makes three times the amount of money I make. Like that's just not reality. Yeah, and our kids do cost a significant amount of money. Not only that, you know certain things too. Oh, you shouldn't have left the house.

Speaker 2:

Why would I keep a house just to spite someone displace him from his home and I can't take care of that house? Like I'm the one who did the entire outside of the house and for the most part I did the inside. Like I was the laundry doer, the dish doer, the domestic goddess, and we had a house cleaner. So he still has a house cleaner and he has to do all of the things that he didn't realize. I was doing the laundry for everyone who walked around in the house, like you know. They, all they. I feel like your spouse never understands, man or woman, the amount you're doing, um, but he understands it now. He he had a couple of meltdowns after I left the amount you're doing, but he understands it now. He had a couple meltdowns after I left. I have to do everything and I'm like, well, who's doing it before?

Speaker 1:

Like weird, I don't know. Like I guess the the dish fairy went away with me. Like it's weird, yeah, but um and.

Speaker 2:

I, you know, I already knew how much he was working. Like I, I couldn't do the snow blowing and the plowing, nor would I have the desire, because I hate snow. But, um, the garbage, the landscaping, the weed wagging, I couldn't do that on that size of a property and live my life the way it is. Um, I would be miserable. I'd be married to this house. It would drive me crazy.

Speaker 2:

The other thing I want to normalize for people is having a normal house and having a process to things. It could take a couple of months or it could take years. So I have, in two years, I have done some cosmetics, like just to make me happy to my house, like paint and some minor improvements. But other than that, I mean, you can see behind me, I've got a boomer house. You can see the brick, you can see the old cabinets, I've got uh paneling everywhere. Um, so you know, instagram tricks us into believing everyone lives in these white, white houses where there's nothing on the countertops and it looks like no one lives there. And I have an appliance garage and that's not reality and that's okay. I love my little house.

Speaker 2:

It's important to plan and design and think about and manifest what your future is going to look like without your spouse, man or woman. And I say this because, like Sarah and I were talking about earlier, I am not a man hater. I love men. I think you're all great to a degree unless you're not. But that's how I feel about women too. You're all great unless you're not. And I am not bitter on men. I'm not bitter on my marriage. I will do anything for my husband still to this day. I help him if he needs it. We co-parent our children. I watch his dogs when he goes on vacation. He watches mine when I go on vacation. Watch his dogs when he goes on vacation. He watches mine when I go on vacation. We do not nitpick at each other or go at each other about dumb things just to make our lives difficult. If I ever really need anything like I'm borrowing his power washer this weekend.

Speaker 2:

So another thing I would highly, highly, highly recommend and a lot of people really have a hard time with this. I don't recommend it if there's a safety issue. If there's a safety issue, do not do this. But if there's not, I highly recommend you move in walking distance of your ex and people think that that is crazy. But number one. When your kids forget something and and they will and they'll do it often you can say go to dad's and get it. Or if it's winter time, obviously, or if you live in a busy area, that's not necessarily safe. For that, at least, if you worked your ass off all day and you're exhausted, you can't do one more thing. You won't take it out on the kids because it's a two second drive, or maybe your kid, maybe your ex, will just drop it off for you.

Speaker 2:

My kids go to 4-H camp and they wanted their fish and poles the other day. So sometime through the night I have no idea when this happened Like a ninja, my ex-husband left the fish and poles on my back porch. So if we live 20 minutes away from each other, even 10 minutes away from each other, I don't know that that would be a thing. And moving around the corner from him, my kids have the same bus, they have the same schools, they have everything. And people say, oh well, what if I can't do that? If you can't, you can't, obviously. But I'm telling you, it's gold, it's worth every ounce of time. It saves us and we have a very loose visitation schedule, so our visitation is definitely kind of mandated around bipolar disorder.

Speaker 2:

Unfortunately, there are just times when he is not well and shouldn't have the kids. So I have to be available to these kids 24-7, which was another reason for the child support on a 50-50 split. It's really not 50-50. I have to be available to these kids 24-7, which was another reason for the child support on a 50-50 split. It's really not 50-50. I have the kids, I would say, more than 75% of the time and the rest of the time they're in school. But when he is well, I want them to spend as much time with their father as they want to.

Speaker 2:

So, and there's also times how many kids do you have? I have four, okay, so you know they beat the crap out of each other, uh-huh. So there's also times that mine are beating the snot out of each other and whoever is the perpetrator stays home with me and the other one gets to choose. Actually, I usually let the victim choose are you staying or going? And whoever is staying, the other one goes to choose, actually, the other. I usually let the victim choose are you staying or going?

Speaker 2:

And whoever is staying, the other one goes to dad and I'll call him and I'll say hey, um, are you busy, are you okay? Um, is it okay if one of the kids comes over because they're just beating the snot out of each other and, uh, it's misery over here, um, and that's another? You know there's, in my opinion, there's no downside to this. I will say this in the beginning he was driving by my house, but I don't care, it did not bother me. I wasn't afraid of him. Um, I know he was just curious to see if I was dating or if there's an extra car in the driveway or whatever. I knew he the novelty would wear off and it did, um I, he wasn't inconspicuous about it at all.

Speaker 1:

I saw a ninja at that point that he is now.

Speaker 2:

Now I would see his white Mercedes drive by, I'd be like, oh hey, say hi to dad. Um, but if there is a safety issue, obviously you can't do that. If there's a safety issue, all of the advice I am giving is different and I would tell you, you know, follow the advice of wherever you live. So, where I live, we have something called an urgent crisis center and it's open seven days a week and you can go there and do an intake and get whatever kind of help you need. Also, where I live, there is a phone number called 211 where you can call for a mental health evaluation, either on yourself or someone else that you're concerned about, if there is a safety issue and with bipolar disorder. I'm well-versed in all of these different things. So you have to do whatever your instincts are telling you to do. But I would say, get all the advice you can from professionals, and I would say, within reason also, because sometimes adding a professional entity into a situation can be hurtful at some time. So follow your instincts. If you don't think you need it, don't do it. But I would much rather be safer than sorry. So if there's more than 50% of you that thinks this is going to be a serious issue. Call the police, call 211, call a therapist. You know, leave the situation, do whatever you have to do. It's easy for me to say you know, do this, do that, do whatever.

Speaker 2:

I was never a victim of domestic violence in that way. We definitely had some verbal abuse happening, gaslighting, manipulation but in no scenario was I concerned for my physical safety most of the time, and the times I was, I left immediately. I would gather the kids and just go to a different area until things deescalated and I would just recommend you act. You know, a lot of times we get paralyzed by fear. I was very paralyzed by fear for a long time and I know that you were too, sarah. You think about all the ways that this can go south. You really need, I would encourage you to even just get like a stupid notebook like this and just write down all the ways that you will persevere, that you'll end up on top, write down all of your skills, write down all of your wishes for yourself, write down what you envision your life to look like. So I actually really do have the life that I envisioned. I envisioned a little ranch house on a little piece of property and that's what I ended up with. I don't think that's an accident. I think I manifested that and, subconsciously and consciously, that's what I ended up with. I don't think that's an accident. I think I manifested that and, subconsciously and consciously, that's what you know I directed myself towards and anything is possible.

Speaker 2:

And when I say that, I want you to think of that as a positive thing, I don't want you to think, well, yeah, tara, of course anything is possible, I could die from this. You to think, well, yeah, tara, of course anything is possible, I could die from this. Don't think that way, unless you need to, obviously. And then you have to completely change course. But envision your life, act. Don't be afraid to act, come up with a plan. You might not follow that plan to a T, but it's going to make you feel better and better when the steps in your plan start working out.

Speaker 2:

Yes, women, we are capable of everything you can think of, and you're already doing it.

Speaker 2:

I guarantee it.

Speaker 2:

So in my marriage I was thinking to myself wow, yes, I already cooked the dinners, I do the laundry, I clean the house, I take care of the kids, I take the kids out on outings.

Speaker 2:

And that's not to say that my husband wasn't participating, because he was, but he was participating. I was the default parent for everything and I was the default person for all things home, and it was too much and he wouldn't participate in things that I needed him to participate in. So I was already carrying this load. Plus, I had a full-time real estate career. I'm a full-time realtor, which can equate to as minimal as 15 hours a week, and then tomorrow I could work 80 hours. So the unpredictability of that adds another amount of chaos Two back-to-back kids that are less than three years apart in age, very active. You know, it's like herding cats. Plus, you know all of the other things that come in life medical issues with my husband and all of these things I said to myself I'm already doing it. If I took him out of the equation as far as the contention, the constant undercutting, the constant adversity arguments, blowouts, I would have more time.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And the other thing, too, that I personally was experiencing and I know as women we experienced this a lot. There is this attitude, and it's completely wrong, that if we are not with our children we're bad parents. So whether you're working or whether you're having brunch with friends, if you're not with your kids, somehow you're a bad mother. That is BS. It's called self-care or caring for your household. And my husband did not want me to have a social life of any kind and I thought to myself I can solve this problem with divorce because if I leave him I'll have a guaranteed set schedule. I mean, it kind of sounds, it sounds bitchy to say it that way, but I did say it to him. I said you know, I said you don't want me to go and do these things, you don't want me to hang out with my friends, you don't want me to go to a family function. But I could just divorce you and I'd be able to do those things when you had the kids, like, is that what you want? Um, you know. And of course he would be like, well, no, right, but he would shame me and guilt me if I left my children to go to a brunch with friends or if I hung out with family and he wouldn't come, or you know, whatever, it was Um, and I was right. So for me, divorcing, um, some people say, oh, you know, divorcing was the feeling richer experience for you.

Speaker 2:

Financially, really nothing changed. I just made sure when we split it was equitable. I wasn't going to take more than I needed and I wasn't going to put him in a bad spot. So financially, really nothing's changed. We still have to care for our kids. Now we're paying, obviously, for two houses. So I'm completely responsible for my income and paying for two houses. So I'm completely responsible for our, for my income and paying for my house. And I made sure.

Speaker 2:

Another thing that's very important and I would say dig in on your finances, know your finances like the back of your hand. This is so important and I spent many years being an ignorant housewife and letting my husband just take care of it. I was lucky he was not being abusive financially in any way. But when he fell off our roof I didn't have a password, I didn't know how to get life insurance, I didn't know if he was going to be okay. He was in a coma. So you know, I embarrassed myself. I just said oh my God, how could I let myself be so ignorant? I'm sitting here basically deaf, dumb and blind to our finances. He could have been fleecing us and I would have had no idea. I knew he wasn't doing that because that's not in his personality, but I had no idea how to access those things. It would have taken me time to figure it out and, god forbid, I lost him. Now I'm in grief trying to figure these things out when they should just be written down somewhere in a safe or whatever. Or you should know how to access these things or what the procedure is when you have a catastrophe and when you're going to split from a spouse.

Speaker 2:

Go through your finances. Figure out how much weekly you are going to need to live. I know weekly and this isn't necessarily based on what I'm paid, but I have to make $1,050 a week to live for my basic living expenses, my mortgage, eating out, doing things I want to do, my utilities, gas in my car. I have to do whatever it takes to make that amount of money. If I make extra, great, it goes the extra places. Money goes, whether it's to a vacation or to your IRA or whatever that is, but you have to know your finances back and forth, so find out how much money you are going to need to live and base everything on that. And I have people say to me all the time I'm pre-approved for $500,000, but that's not the mortgage that I want. I really want a mortgage that is no more.

Speaker 2:

For me it was $1,300 a month. I knew I would need a certain amount of money down to make that happen, so him and I worked out how that was going to happen In our situation. We took a HELOC out on the other house to make the down payment on this one and then, when he had to separate some of his 401k to me, I had to pay him back this down payment. Looking back, I would not do it that way, so what I would do instead is have him separate that amount of money from his 401k and just pay me the difference. Because what ended up happening is we took the HELOC out, I paid him back out of the 401k and because I took that money out, even though it was ordered in our divorce the initial it's called a quadro. The initial quadro is what I didn't have to pay taxes on, so his transfer to me, but anything I took out to pay back counts as my income, so I was taxed on what I had to pay him back. So that was a move.

Speaker 2:

If I had known then I would have done things a little differently, but it's very confusing. But it's very confusing and it's very difficult to figure out who to go to for advice on those things. Like our mediator really kind of was clueless about that, it was really a tax attorney I need or a CPA that I needed to talk to about that to make sure that that portion of it was worded properly. But I'll tell you what you'll experience too At the end of this road.

Speaker 2:

When you finally think you have things worked out, you're exhausted. You just want it to be done. You don't even care if it's correct. You're just like yep, yep, I'll sign. You're emotionally exhausted, you're physically exhausted and I was just. I was done with the constant reiteration of things I was done with. We would have it down. And then, because he's bipolar, he would be like no, I never said that, I don't want to do that, and it's like we have it right here. You did say that, well, that's not what I meant, and then we would start the whole thing over again.

Speaker 2:

So it takes a lot of back and forth, but if you can stay the course and not get frustrated and just say, forget it, we're getting attorneys, blah, blah, whatever, you'll end up on top, this is the way you wanna go. If it's possible for you, this is the way you wanna go. But become financially literate. If you're not, that will save you so much headache in life in general. And if you're watching this and you're not even thinking about leaving a spouse, still, become financially literate. I would say one of the biggest mistakes women make is not being financially literate, not only about your marital finances, about your personal finances. When you become financially literate about your personal finances, you automatically start utilizing your money better to your advantage. So definitely do that and teach your kids to be literate about their finances too, because I don't know about you. Did anyone teach you that, sarah?

Speaker 1:

No, they didn't actually Um, which I've had to learn, um, a lot of that stuff on my own through making you know different mistakes and things like that. I'm still a work in progress, um, but you know to your point. That's why, uh, you know, I'm creating, or have created, this, you know, group called Thrive and Decide is so that they have access to you know different financial planners, financial, you know, coaches and coaches, like financial coaches can literally do everything from, like, teaching you how to balance your checkbook to writing a check, to paying bills. You know all of the things that, like you know, some people are like, well, don't you just know how to do that?

Speaker 1:

If you are totally out of it in your marriage and you know one spouse handles it all, it may seem like this is so cool, everything's paid for. Well, if something happens, you know, like in your case, like your, you know your ex-husband was in a coma. You know, like after his traumatic brain injury and so you didn't know that. So, like, if something like that happens, you know, cool that they did all of that stuff, but now what? And a lot of stuff can end up in pre-gay yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it's important to not be embarrassed.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Never be embarrassed about that.

Speaker 2:

So initially I was embarrassed that I let that go, but then I took responsibility. I said it was my choice to become ignorant, like all I have to do is become literate. I will never. I said to myself. I will never let this happen again. And I didn't, and I was able to make a better life for myself as a result of it.

Speaker 2:

So once that had happened, I was always a working person. So even when I was home with my kids, I had a home daycare. I would do consulting. I always sold something I don't know if anybody remembers Jamberry Nails. Oh yeah, I got to like a high, high level of jamboree.

Speaker 2:

Um, I paid for the down payment on our house and, um, I always was, you know, keeping us out of debt, um, paying attention, you know, to our finances, um, and then I just got lazy and then, once, once, I realized how much that could cost you. You know, we take for granted that we're going to live forever and that a freak accident won't happen to us. Literally, something could happen that incapacitates you in your own home. You just and that's what happened to us Um, you know, my husband fell off our roof putting up Christmas lights. I? Um, accidents happen. You need to be able to have the ability to just act, um. So write down all of your skills, write down all of your income. Even if it's something stupid like you're, even if it's like I'm a couponer, that's income. Um, and that was another thing I did for years Like I had a coupon so much deodorant it took us four years to go through, but that's all money. So, even if it doesn't seem like money to you, I'll say this, and this is something that I had another friend do who was in a very abusive, scary situation If you can pull it off, don't do it.

Speaker 2:

If you can't pull it off, if you can pull it off, don't do it. If you can't pull it off, if you can pull it off and your finances are being controlled when you go to the grocery store, if that's all you're allowed to do, get an extra $10, $20 here and there and squirrel it away somewhere. Find little ways to pinch money so that you have $1,000 for a getaway car. It's $1,000 for getaway. $1,000. Cash will get you a hotel night temporarily, or you'll be able to have it if you have to go to a safe house or a shelter.

Speaker 2:

There's definitely ways, but obviously don't do anything conspicuous that is going to put you in danger. But with my friend I went and bought a prepaid cell phone for her and we had a hiding place for it. And then we had a different hiding place for her to squirrel away a little bit some money here and there, and when she felt confident enough to do it, she went to a safe house and she knew where that money was and she was able to get it and ultimately she was able to leave her husband with some protection. So and I know that that pendulum swings both ways too so if you're a man and you're in that situation, there's ways to pinch money. Maybe you're a couponer and you can sell some of those things, or, you know, maybe you coupon to the point where you're getting money back at the register. But, um, if there's ways to pinch a little bit some money here to keep yourself safe, definitely do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I love that your group is so amazing. I'm so excited about that and I feel um very honored that you asked me to be on here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Well, thank you so much and I appreciate you taking your time. Um, you know, cause I know that you are me to be on here. Yes, well, thank you so much and I appreciate you taking your time. Um, you know, cause I know that you are super busy, so I love that you took that time and I really appreciate you being so open, you know, with your story and also giving like such good practical advice. Um, you know, and I know that we were talking like previously, um, you know, before we started recording, you know, I think that there's definitely some other episodes that you and I can, can do together, so I think my ending message is um, don't be afraid.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I looked around in my life at who was doing this and the ways they were doing it and I really just came up with a plan for myself. You need to come up with a plan that works for you. And I will also say this I have no regrets because of the way I went about doing this and I think it was much easier for my kids. If you can avoid it and I believe you can, do not bring another person into your life. So do not have an affair in order to accomplish leaving your spouse. It's just going to add all of this gasoline to an already huge bonfire and it's really just going to create horrific anxiety all around. I had friends doing that at the time that I was just leaving my husband and they're still recovering from that two years later, which is where I would say, him and I are pretty much recovered from it. So there's definitely ways to do it. Sometimes it seems like the easy way out, because now you have another place to land or you you know somebody else has created a place for you to go, but it really creates a hundred more problems that you didn't need. And I will end and just say you can get a divorce. It's okay to get a divorce as a woman. We're always shamed for it. You will be more than okay, you know, and you'll recover way faster than you ever imagined. You're not going to be wearing the scarlet letter of divorce 10 years from now. We're really kind of entering a phase in the world and you can agree or disagree where peaceful divorce is trendy. Yes, like it's almost cool to just say hey, I like you, but I do not want to be married to you. We do not have to throw stones at each other. We can just separate. Like we might argue about the division of assets, but we'll step away from that and then come together when heads are level. Peaceful divorce is getting trendier. I do feel like, even though women are still stigmatized for divorcing, that is going away because more of us are speaking out and share your story and your discomfort.

Speaker 2:

I would say if you're going through something, no matter what it is, I'm open about our experience with bipolar disorder, divorce, a lot of the other issues that we've gone through how to parent our kids through divorce and what I realize is people are open to receiving that information. Number one because a lot of them are experiencing it too. They were just living in the shadows, afraid to say anything because they didn't want to be judged. What you're going to find out is, out of 10 friends that you have, probably eight of them are in the same kind of discomfort you're in, you know, and it helps to bounce ideas off of each other. So that number one you're normalizing it. You're feeling better about it. It's not. You know, you're taking a problem that, in your mind, is so big. But then you realize all these other people are dealing with it too and they live, they survive, they go on to persevere and be better people because they don't have the weight of a miserable relationship weighing them down.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's the fear I think that Sarah and I want to try to mitigate for people, because it is scary.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I absolutely agree. And you know, and that is so true. You know, just trying to figure out. You know, no, there is no cookie cutter approach to it. There is, you know, one size fits all divorce. You know, just like there's not a one size fits all, you know one size fits all divorce. You know just like there's not one size fits all, you know, guide to raising your kids or getting married, or you know, there's just, there's not. It's all part of life, it's all part of you figuring out what works for you. But I do agree, if you have the opportunity to do it peacefully, do it peacefully because it's going to save your sanity, it's going to save if there's children involved, it's going to save their sanity and it's just, you know, ultimately going to save you money.

Speaker 2:

It'll save you a ton of money. It'll save you your integrity. Yes, because once something like that has had a betrayal of that level has happened, whether it's romantic or financial, you're never to be trusted again. Unfortunately, and other people do kind of you know, head scratch that they're like oh you know, I wouldn't have thought you'd be the kind of person to do that, or whatever it is. It can follow you in that way. Negativity what you focus on, expands. So negativity begets negativity. And I, I think I know, I firmly believe what comes around goes around. Karma does get you and misery will rain down on you if you have rained it down on someone else. So you just don't. It's much easier to not. And let me tell you it wasn't for lack of temptation. Yeah, you know, I'm one of these people.

Speaker 2:

I had a massive makeover in the last five years. I blossomed in my 40s. I was really kind of dorky, overweight and like frumpy most of my life, and then I went blonde. I had plastic surgery, I got lip injections, um, so it wasn't for a lack of it wasn't for a lack of temptation. What I would do is I had raging insomnia, because I think the other thing is is, once we hit 40, our hormones are like crazy, um. So I would have insomnia and there would be times where, you know, I would get hit on by people either at work or at the gym or whatever, and I would be like, oh, that's very tempting thinking about it, like. And then I would just say get your ass on the treadmill and run until you're tired, because you don't want to do that and mainly, I did not feel like he deserved to be hurt like that. I didn't want to hurt my children, but I also did not want to hand over the upper hand. I wanted to maintain the upper hand. I did not want to damage my integrity in that way, and that kind of behavior also expands. So if you're open to that, then what happens is you attract other people like that and then it's kind of a never ending cycle.

Speaker 2:

It's like a cycle you can't get out of of kind of very risky behavior, and it's risky because you're risking your finances, your reputation, your integrity and you're not going to feel good. I don't know anyone who does this, who says highly recommend. I've never met a single person who says that. So it's much easier just to get through it. And you will, you'll get through it. It might take months, it might take a year, sometimes it takes two years, but think of positive replacement activities and I feel like you will feel good about it in the end. It's almost like a challenge, like the 75 hard. Yes, it's like let me get out of this divorce without doing something completely shitty. Yes, it's like a challenge. So once it's over you're like oh, and then you don't even have the desire.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I totally agree. I totally agree. Well, thank you so much for taking time out. Like I said, uh, I know you're super busy. Um, I love your story, I love your openness and, um, you know, I'm certain that people that are listening are like, oh my gosh, like I get it. You know I was, I'm in that same boat, or I was in that same boat, or holy goodness that was like. You know so many good nuggets that, um, you know, I I can pull this off. So, thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

Um yes, and thank you to everyone for listening so much. Um. Thank you, yes, and thank you to everyone for listening. Um, you know, definitely, make sure that, uh, you are leaving a review, um, because that is the greatest feedback that you can give Tara and myself. Um, make sure that you're sharing this um, because that is the biggest compliment that you can give Tara and myself. Um, and follow along on this show so that you never miss an episode. And, uh, you know, you just stay on top of um everything and so you don't feel alone.

Speaker 2:

So, thank you so much. Nobody should feel alone. And uh, if you want to see more of my uh ridiculous Instagram antics and some of my divorce story, uh, you can follow me on Instagram at Tara Crossley realtor.

Speaker 1:

Perfect. Yes, and I'll put that in the show notes so that that way people can find you. Obviously, if you're in the Connecticut Rhode Island area and you're looking for a great realtor, definitely look up Tara, because she can take great care of you.

Speaker 2:

I will take great care of you and I'm awesome at getting people through this divorce stage of a sale. Yes, yes, I will take great care of you and I'm awesome at getting people through this divorce stage of a sale.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, I love it, excellent. Well, thank you so much and we'll see you next time on thrive and decide, bye.