Thrive & Decide Guide to Divorce and Beyond

The Courage to Choose Yourself When Marriage No Longer Serves You

• Sarah Thress • Season 1 • Episode 17

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What happens when your marriage looks perfect from the outside but feels empty on the inside? Katie Fleming bravely shares her journey of walking away from a marriage that wasn't terrible—just terribly unfulfilling.

Katie married young at 21, seeking stability after her father left during childhood. Despite creating a picture-perfect family with three children, something vital was missing: genuine connection. "He wasn't a bad dad, he just was there," Katie explains, capturing the quiet devastation of living alongside someone who doesn't truly see you. "We don't hang out, we don't talk, we don't fight, but we don't talk."

The conversation explores the unique challenges of ending a marriage without dramatic betrayal or abuse—facing judgment from friends who couldn't understand why anyone would leave such a "good guy." Katie's candid reflection offers validation to anyone questioning whether mere coexistence is enough for a fulfilling life.

The story transforms when Katie describes finding true partnership with Ed, now her husband. Their relationship began as genuine friendship before blossoming into something more meaningful. Together they've navigated the complex terrain of blending five children, managing relationships with ex-partners, and creating a unified family during COVID lockdowns.

Katie's wisdom shines through when discussing co-parenting dynamics and healing after divorce. She emphasizes the importance of creating boundaries, focusing on the children's wellbeing, and learning to distinguish between battles worth fighting and those better left behind. Most poignantly, Katie reflects on how modeling healthy partnership benefits her children: "Now they're seeing, oh, this is how a boyfriend or girlfriend's supposed to treat me."

This episode offers hope and practical guidance for anyone questioning whether more is possible in their relationships and life. Katie's journey reminds us that choosing yourself isn't selfish—it creates space for authentic happiness that ultimately benefits everyone you love.

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.


Sarah Thress
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Real Estate Podcast Come To Find Out:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-to-find-out/id1704949604

Real Estate First Time Home Buyers course: https://sarahthress.graphy.com/

Speaker 1:

Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide. This week we have Katie Fleming. She's joining us. So she is a local realtor but also a local shop owner in Grove City and ironically, I got connected to her really through like a women's group, but I had always kind of known her from afar because I knew her current husband. But so whenever we, you know, sat down and started talking, I was like hey, like I'd love to hear like your story. So can you kind of just walk us through, because obviously you know this is about, you know, divorce, and then just kind of you know, so if you would like to just walk us through kind of like your love story with your ex-husband and then just kind of you know like what happened, um, you know you can share as much or as little as you want.

Speaker 1:

And then, um, you know, and then just kind of like, how did you get through that?

Speaker 2:

And, um, yeah, yeah, well, thank you for having me. Um, so my story is probably not as dramatic as some people. So I met my ex-husband I was 21. I was working at Sears Hardware, which shows how old I am, because that's been closed for a really long time. I was working at Sears Hardware.

Speaker 2:

I had a history of dating people that were not appropriate, just you know, always attracted to the bad boy type, and it sounds crazy. But when I was 19, I had this giant revelation with a friend one night that, you know, maybe I need to start finding a little better quality person. So all this happened quality person. So all this happened and a friend from work said hey, you should come to this party. There's this guy we know. We think you would really like him. So I was like fine, let's do it. Why not? Went to the party. This guy walked in. I was like what is this? Who are you setting me up with? The guy was a total waste of time. And right when I said that, this other guy walked in, I said wait, who's this guy? And they said, no, you're not going to like him. He's very quiet, he's very religious. You're just probably not your type. I was like, nope, that's going to be my boyfriend. I just I knew it right away. Started talking Long story short.

Speaker 2:

We got engaged when we were 21. Very, very young I think I had gone through this isn't that abnormal but a lot of daddy issues. My dad left when I was six, so you're always constantly looking for that person Like who's safe, who can I you know who's, who's not going to be out there cheating or partying or doing these things. And that was definitely him. He was very close to his family. That was very attractive to me. I was the only child, he was one of six, so it was kind of cool to like go see a big family and be close to them. Time went on. Obviously we're engaged. He was Catholic, I was not. That was a huge pinpoint in our relationship. We almost didn't get married because of it. His mom came to me and said if you don't get married in a Catholic church, I'm not coming to your wedding. And looking back, I wish I would have said awesome.

Speaker 1:

Fine, don't be there, then Perfect.

Speaker 2:

Right, we're going to the beach, but I didn't. I was naive at 21, which most 21 year olds are, and again, I just thought he was safe. So go through the wedding at a Catholic church. And his family already started showing signs of okay, we don't really approve of this girl. Everyone else is getting married Catholic, she's not.

Speaker 2:

I remember going on our honeymoon, which is crazy and thinking I'm not sure that he actually likes me as much as I like him, which, looking back, is terrifying. Wow, yeah, and it just there was. He was very caring, he was always a very kind person. There just was never that connection. We weren't friends. We didn't really laugh a lot together, just a lot more serious than I was. And then I well, when you're Catholic, you're supposed to go through NFP, which I don't know if everyone knows what that is. Basically, you're not on birth control, yes. And so I remember thinking like cool I'm, we can have kids, it will give us something to talk about, which is also crazy. And lo and behold, we got pregnant on our honeymoon, came back and I just remember the entire time I was pregnant, thinking, thinking the only way this is ever going to work is for us to have kids and have a family and like we're gonna, once we have kids, it'll be great, we'll be fine, and it was. It was fine, there was nothing crazy.

Speaker 2:

Um, when I had my first daughter I had lots of not problems, but it was. It was a little bit complicated and I mean I couldn't sit for eight weeks like, had just lots of tearing and problems and literally at the hospital the day of having my first child, didn't sleep all night. Next morning I get up and he goes to church and he left me, which is fine and it's great, but he left me there and I remember the nurse coming in and having to give me a shower and it was like terrifying, like here you are with a newborn and you can't even stand up and a random stranger is helping give you a shower, and it was just like looking back even more. It was really heartbreaking for me because I felt very, very alone. And then coming home and nursing three kids because we went on to have two more, I think that was that was when you're just everything is so crazy right, you have three little kids, you're not thinking about yourself. So, going a little forward, he worked and then he went back to school and I stayed at home with the kids, which was awesome. I loved it, but it was for him. It was work, school, go to sleep, and he wasn't a bad dad, he just was there.

Speaker 2:

Um, so I was mowing the lawn and cooking dinner and grocery shopping and I went and got my real estate license because I needed to talk to adults. So it's like all that was great and you're a great provider, but you could just not be here and it'd be the same thing, right. So that was really hard for me and I felt, like probably most moms, you just kind of lose yourself. You become so involved in being a mom so fast forward we even later, our kids are a little bit older.

Speaker 2:

In real estate, you know, you're seeing houses and there was a neighborhood where I sold two houses and there was an empty lot and the two houses I sold were to two of my friends and I said you know what, like, we need to change, something's got to go, I need something. So we moved and we built a house there and it just was like the same old thing and I could see myself like slipping further and further and just becoming more involved with hanging out with friends and just not him. Like we are just two strangers. And there was a couple like final straws for me, but one of them is maybe this sounds shallow now looking back but I had saved up a ton of money and he had always wanted a truck again. And I went out and bought a truck and I spent an entire day with a little kid at a car dealership buying a truck again. And I went out and bought a truck and I spent an entire day with a little kid at a car dealership buying a truck for him. And we all piled in the truck to surprise him when he came home from work and he was just like so pissed off when he came home, like so annoyed that I had spent money and went out and did this and just like I, just I finally had enough.

Speaker 2:

Like I was sick of everything, I wasn't happy, um, like for me a nine to five and just living life wasn't enough anymore. I realized I'm getting older, the kids are getting older. What when they move out? What do we have? We don't hang out, we don't talk, we don't fight, but we don't talk. Um, and I finally just said you know, we need a break. There was a lot more there and I said we need a break. So I asked him to move out and I thought, you know, maybe he'll come back, maybe he'll change, maybe he'll fight for this, and once he really didn't. It was just like for me, I mean, what are we doing? That was that's a long and short, short version of kind of where we were. Um, I always cared for him. There was nothing, no bad blood. There still isn't bad blood. It's just, you know, now when he's cranky, it's like bye.

Speaker 1:

You don't have to listen to it anymore, right it's just uh, you know, and it's just have to listen to it anymore, right, it's just uh, you know, and it's just, it's just different now.

Speaker 1:

so, yeah, that's the short version. Yeah, no, I love that, and I think that you know you said like your story, um, you know, is like, I mean, your story is unique, um, you know, and what I think, though, is that it's probably more common, yeah, to have a story similar to yours than it is to have like this massive, you know, drama like blow up, like, of course, there are like plenty of those situations, but I think you know to your point, like you were talking about, like once you have children, like you like lose yourself, cause I know, you know that that's if I reflect back on everything, on my marriage, you know, and you know, whenever, like the beginning of the end, you know it's really like you, you know you get married and you want to be the best wife ever.

Speaker 1:

And then you have kids and you want to be the best mom ever, but like none of that is like, oh, and I want to be the best me. Like you're just giving, giving, giving, giving, yeah, absolutely so, yeah, so I I applaud you for seeing that and for stepping away, because a lot of times I think that, unfortunately, women think, well, I could never do this on my own. Or well, I mean, he's not that bad, it's not like he abuses me so like we should just stay together.

Speaker 2:

And I went through a lot of that guilt because a lot of people had told me that, and especially for me, the hardest was when I went through it. All of my friends were married, right they?

Speaker 2:

were all married to their high school sweethearts, or they were all, and everyone kept saying, oh, he's such a good guy, or you guys are always so cute together. And we were, we were, we were that couple. Like if you saw us out, you thought we are super happy, um, and we weren't unhappy, we just weren't. You know, I think I was madly in love with him and I think for him I fit the timeline right. His parents said, okay, you're going to go to college and then you're going to get married and then you're going to have a baby, and so, boom, there, I was right on the timeline, so it just worked.

Speaker 2:

And so that's the struggle, and giving all of yourself to someone who's giving you and it's not his fault, because you see it with his kids, you see it with his family, like he is loving the best that he can. It just it wasn't enough for me anymore. So I think we're both fine. He seems happy over there and clearly I'm way happier over here. So you know, I think it worked out. It was obviously a terrible few years with the kids and adjusting, and why aren't you guys together? You know we got all of the normal guilt, but I think we're finally mostly through that storm. So yeah, yeah, yeah, so, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So now you are, you know, happily remarried. Yes, Kind of walk us through that process, Like so you ended that marriage right. So you like you ended that and you knew you wanted more and you know you had this thriving real estate business. Because, like I told you, I used to, like, you know, watch you on social media and I was like oh my God, she's so amazing, yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 1:

So you know you've got this thriving real estate business. You're trying to figure out, like you know, raising kids on your own and all that stuff, kind of walk us through like how did that feel, what was you know? And then you know, how did you? How'd you meet your current husband?

Speaker 2:

Oh man, okay well, so being a single mom ironically wasn't any different than being married. And it's funny because people ask that. And I mean that in all reality, because for 12 years of being married to my ex, I again I did everything. So, like him, being gone was just okay cool. I have one less person to drive a kid around.

Speaker 1:

One less mouth to feed Right.

Speaker 2:

It really wasn't, and it's sad, but it really wasn't that big of a deal. My mom was a huge support she was a single mom, you know to me so that was a huge support. Eventually I had friends that stepped up and would help out if I need that. So that's how I kind of survived that. As far as Ed, who's my current husband, we actually went to high school together, which is crazy and I was a year older than he was. We did not know each other. We still keep trying to figure out how in the world we didn't know each other. All of our friends were the same, just we never ended up crossing paths.

Speaker 2:

So I had known him for a few years because of work he sells insurance and my business partner and I actually did a video with him and I didn't know at the time, but he thought I was cute, I thought he was driving me nuts. So we were on two ends of the spectrum. But there was a lot that I was going through and I don't post a lot on social media about personal stuff. But I had posted something and he reached out and nobody else did. He caught it right away because he had gone through similar things. So he reached out. He was just messaging me and we became friends and then very quickly we just like had a lot in common. You know, he was going through a lot of healing, I was going through a lot of healing and the craziest part about him is we just like instantly became best friends, and I never had that with a guy. It was either, oh, I'm attracted to him because he's wild and crazy, or hey, I'm going to get married because he's wild and crazy, or hey, I'm gonna get married because he's the calm, sweet one. Um, so never had a chance and I remember my mom even seeing, like you have to be best friends with somebody, and I was like, oh, okay, sure, uh, of course, what did moms know? So I think that was the biggest thing with us is we became really best friends as we are dating. Um, and still like it's funny because when people joke about their friends, the first person I'm calling is my husband like I gotta tell you something funny or this, it doesn't matter what it is like, we call each other um. So that was our story.

Speaker 2:

We started dating and I sat down with the three kids one day and said you know, would you be okay with me dating? And in sat down with the three kids one day and said you know, would you be okay with me dating? And at first they were like meh, well, maybe if it was someone like Ed. And I was like, oh funny story, because we're actually sort of dating. And so that was huge to me and I told all of our all three kids like, if you don't like him, I'm out. This is not negotiable for me. So that was really really important.

Speaker 2:

And then, fast forward in that relationship, covid hit and we are living in two separate houses with five kids, because he has two and I have three. And he said you know, if we, we can either move in together or we can wait this out and not really see each other but see what happens. And so for us it was like all right, what's why not? So they moved into our house, which was mad chaos, you know, throwing five kids together and kind of making them get along.

Speaker 2:

I think looking back was probably crazy, but it actually, in our situation, I think, worked, because there was no one else for them to play with, right? So they were making up games and doing each other's hair and nails and they all kind of blended really well with that Um, and that's then we ended up building a house, also during COVID and then getting married during COVID Um, and that's then we ended up building a house also during COVID and then getting married during COVID Um. But we, we went through so much from my mom having health issues to us selling houses, to blending kids, to homeschooling that looking back now, it's like if we can make it through that crap and we survive, like this is nothing, um, and so you know, even this week it was there was a lot of drama in our lives going on this week. Last night we sat down and just said what are we freaking out about? Like, we got each other, we got this, everything is fine, um, so it's just a totally different relationship. So, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I know, isn't it? Um, like, as you're like speaking, I'm like, oh my gosh, like I relate so much because that's how it is, you know, now with my current husband, adam, you know, it's like we are best friends, like he is like my ride or die. He's the person I want to call If there's something funny that happens or shit hit the fan. Like he is who I'm going call, absolutely, um, you know, and so I. I love that so much.

Speaker 1:

Um, and we, you know, we kind of threw our, our kids together too yeah right, I know you kind of have to, and then you know, we did end up taking a little step back to like give the kids some space and then, you know, blending back together and, um, you know, but we've, we've been doing that for like eight years now. So, wow, yeah, so we're a little bit further along, um, but uh, you know, I'd also love for you to kind of touch on, because you know, as like, as hard as it is to blend your family, yeah, it's also hard to blend the exes, yes. So you know, do you, do you still have like a good relationship with your ex-husband? Does Ed still have a good relationship? Like, how does that, how does that kind of work? And like, how, how are you guys able to handle all that with children?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Um, or maybe you don't and that's okay.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting. Um, so me and my ex get along pretty well. The only time we have conflict is obviously if he doesn't agree with something, and then usually it's okay, well, you're going to do whatever you want, so do it. Anyhow is what I get from him. So, um, that one it's ironic because it's kind of like, not like he treats me like we're still married, but it's kind of like I'm still the decision maker and it's just the way it's always been with him. If he doesn't have to handle it, he doesn't want to. So that one is usually okay. We had a long conversation a couple years after we got divorced and I just said, listen, like we're still parents, we have to figure this out, and Ed wants to be involved. He's not an enemy. So after that it really calmed down a lot. Ed and him get along for the most part. They've done some coaching together for sports teams, you know they can at least say hi to each other and again, if the ex is in a bad mood, it's just like okay, bye, we're gonna go live our happy life and ignore you.

Speaker 2:

Ed's ex-wife is a whole different story. I have tried very, very hard from day one and it upsets me as a mom, because I have tried very hard to say, hey, let's sit down, like what are the things that you want, what do you not want? Because I'm, at the end of the day, I'm not their mom, right, I'm their, as I call them, I'm their bonus mom or their stepmom, um, so I'm not replacing you and I've tried telling her that, like you know, this isn't my job, but the girls will come to me with things and I've tried reaching out to her and saying, hey, they have questions. You probably should answer these. And when there's no response, eventually we have these conversations with the girls. It's like at some point they are in our house half the time, like we have to parent them too. So that one is a little harder for me, especially as a mom.

Speaker 2:

I know when my ex dated a girl for a while, my first thing was to immediately go over and say, hey, I'm Katie. Like just be good to my kids. You know there's no, I don't care. And that's the problem for me with Ed's ex is like if there aren't any feelings there anymore, then why care? Like, just be hands-off, like at this point, this is just a job, you're just parenting, we're just parenting. There shouldn't be any drama. Like they're just, you know, for the good of the kids.

Speaker 2:

Especially going through that as a child, it sucks so bad for a kid to see conflict constantly and not only that, but like it's it's stress for you, right, like we're just here to help you If you have an emergency and you need a babysitter. We're it Like you don't have family here. So for me it's very hard because I would love for that to be a relationship. We've invited her. She doesn't throw birthday parties for the girls. We've invited her. Hey, we're having a birthday party at our house. Just come. No one cares. Like no one cares that you are married. No one. Like you're their mom, doesn't come. Um, just, everything is like it's just. It's like you're always ready for a battle.

Speaker 2:

And probably till two years ago it was really hard for ed and I because she would start something and then we would fight about it.

Speaker 2:

And finally one day we both sat down and said, listen, and then the day, like you're the dad to these two girls, so you parent them, and like this is how it is and we just have to quit letting her ruin our happiness because it's exactly what she wants Because she sees it, and she sees that it causes drama between us and at the end of the day, she goes home and she's alone and the kids are upset with her, like they come here, they're happy, they're loved, they have siblings, and if that's how she wants to live, that's how she wants to live, but we don't have to be miserable because of that, and that really changed our relationship a lot.

Speaker 2:

So now it's just kind of what you were talking about, like we're on a group text together because those two can't be alone to talk to each other, and she'll start something, and it's like you know what, we're just gonna ignore this. Before it was like, oh no, we're gonna defend ourselves and start reacting. And so finally, we both sometimes have to take a giant breath and just say who cares? Like cool, we're going to dinner together and you you're not, like it's just not worth it, um. So I think that is what has really, really saved our marriage and our happiness. It's just, we have too many good things going. You're in the past. So, um, as long as the kids are happy, that's I think that's what's most important to us.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, no, I love that and I think that's such a huge thing. Um, because obviously you and Ed are making everything about the children. Yeah, and that's what I think. Unfortunately, a lot of people going through this, they can't see that, like they can't get past their feelings, they can't get past their hurt, right, some people love to play the victim Absolutely. Some people are like, oh no, I'm not going to be the victim. Um, some people are like, oh no, I'm not going to be the victim.

Speaker 1:

Like, this is not going to be how my story ends. This is the beginning of something amazing, um, but I think that if more people focused on making sure that it was all about the kids, it would be so much better. And you know cause? I know, whenever I first started going through my divorce, I thought, oh my God, I'm going to totally fuck up my kid, like you know, because that's just that's all you see, like portrayed, you know, on TV or in movies or whatever is the kid that you know is is jaded and whatever. And so for me, like my biggest thing was let's do everything for our daughter and that's it, you know. And like take all feelings out.

Speaker 2:

So I love that you guys were able to do that. Yeah, I hope and you know we pray that someday she'll get past that. I don't know what the hangup is. Um, you know I understand it being hard and all of that, but their story is a different story and I don't know that they ever really got along super well. So that for me is even more like what's happening. But I guess also, when you're not happy, sometimes you don't want other people to be happy, and I think that's probably part of the situation. But you know, like, just be happy. I just want you to be happy for the girls, because the girls see that hate and that anger and they and they don't want that and they've said stuff to us. So you just, you know, I hope that she gets through it, but we'll see, yeah, so we'll keep holding on.

Speaker 1:

I know, I know. So when you kind of look back through it, you know obviously, um, it's so much easier. You know, hindsight is 2020. Um, so, whenever you, you know, you look back and you're like, man, if I had only seen X, y and Z, maybe we wouldn't have even gotten married, and you know. But then when you go down that path and you're like, okay, but then I wouldn't have my children, I wouldn't have learned all of these things you know. So I think, just from the, we don't regret anything that we did in the back, you know, in the past or whatever.

Speaker 1:

But, um, I guess, when you look back, is there anything that you wish, like when you were going through that, like anything you wish that someone could have said to you or done to like make it easier. You know, cause I? I feel like sometimes our friends have the best of intentions, but, um, the things that they say are like are hurtful, or you know, they're like, oh, just get back out there. Like it'll be okay. And you're like, no, no, like I need to heal first, like so I, I just I guess what would be something you know? Or like, what do you wish someone would have said, or some resource for my first, yeah, um.

Speaker 2:

So I don't know that anyone really well besides my mother-in-law at the time I don't know that anyone really well besides my mother-in-law at the time I don't know that anyone really tried to warn me of anything. They all really liked my ex um. He was charming like. They all really liked him, so there wasn't really a warning.

Speaker 2:

The only thing I wish is that and I've tried to tell my daughters this and my son is that like, why did I get married so young? And you hear all the time and it's not that it's not for everyone, but I don't honestly know. I think I had just gone through so much from losing my dad not that he's gone, he's still here, but my dad leaving. I think I never knew how to heal from that and I think until you're an adult you don't really realize the impact that had on your life. So I don't know that anyone could have necessarily helped me until you get older and you mature, which is why I wish I would have waited till I was older to get married.

Speaker 2:

Um, but I think that's probably the biggest thing and if you have a feeling at all like hey, there's something here, go with that gut instinct, even if it means you have to delay your wedding or you know, maybe you're engaged a little bit longer, you date a little bit longer. It doesn't mean you can't be with that person, but maybe there's a sign that you need to fix something or they need to um. So that probably is always the biggest thing. For me, it's wish like what was the rush?

Speaker 2:

Yeah we weren't 40 or 50 and rushing to have kids, we were 21. Like you know, it's it's a lot. And then, especially then getting pregnant right away. My oldest has been dating a boy for a while. They've talked about marriage and I keep telling her even if you want to get married, young, wait to have kids. Like, just wait, date a while.

Speaker 2:

There's nothing wrong with just dating your spouse and kids. Kids will come. They're not. You've got time, girl, yeah, um. So, looking back, that's that's probably the biggest thing. It's just don't, don't be in a rush to do all that and enjoy, like you said. Like now I have my best friend and as much as it sucks that we have our kids, 50% of the time like this weekend we don't have the kids we actually get to go on a date, yeah, to hang out. Like it sucks missing them, but it's good for us to build our relationship and I didn't have that before. So that's that's probably the best advice that I can give for that situation yeah, it's funny because Adam and I always say that we're just like.

Speaker 1:

I mean, if you want to look for like, we're like, we're not, um, telling everyone to go out there and get a divorce, but if you're looking for silver linings, it's kind of cool. Whenever you have, you know, time to be just us, right, you know? Because the kids are at their other parents house because we do the same thing where we have everyone on the same schedule yeah, um, so right yeah, so it's like kind of nice. I'm like oh yeah.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and then you remember who you are and it's you know. Sometimes the kids are like oh, you like it when we're not here. Well, that's actually not true at all. We would always rather have you here, but also like you need us to be better parents and we're not good parents when we have you 24, seven and we're stressed like you have to be a person too. So that's a big deal.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Now, when you went through your divorce and you made that decision, do you feel like your friends like kind of supported that, or do you think anyone gave you advice that you wish that maybe they didn't. Or you wish like man looking you wish like man looking back, like I wish someone had told me this. Or told me like it's okay, like good for you, like I'm proud of you, instead of like what is wrong with you. Why would you do this? You know?

Speaker 2:

I got a lot again. All my friends were married and like in their prime, so I got a lot of slack because they all liked my ex, which I understand, and they all liked me ex, which I understand, and they all liked me. And it was like I don't understand, we don't, he's not doing anything, what are you doing? You know which I get and, looking back, I honestly I probably would have said the same thing if I was looking on the outside. But there were a few and what's the funniest is that the people I met going through it that I like never thought I would be friends with or just never talked to in my life before, and suddenly it was like we found something we clicked on and just random people knew what was going on and sent me messages and just said, like been there, done that, you'll be fine, Like. So that was really cool and some of those people I still talk to. So I think that was a huge support.

Speaker 2:

Again, my mom was a huge support and honestly, I just like seeing her go through stuff and other people. I was like I can do this and I was so busy with the kids that I was just like I have to focus on my career and my kids. That's it, this other crap. You know I would spend nights up all night crying and then the next morning it's like, okay, well, too bad, Take a shower. You got to go out the door. So I did get some good advice. I don't know that anyone totally was like, oh yeah, you're doing the right thing, Good job. But I definitely did have some good support.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that you took care of yourself and I love that you pointed that out, because, um, it's something that I always try and tell people, um, you know, when they're going through it, like cause I've coached a lot of people kind of through their, their divorces, um, but I always try and tell people is like first of all, nothing and divorce is fair.

Speaker 2:

So don't try and make it fair.

Speaker 1:

Like not one thing about it is fair Like there is no way to split everything, 50, 50 and make it like you can't, split your kids in half, like you can't, like no, there's no way to do that. And then I always say it is a roller coaster. So there are going to be some days that you are going to just want to like cry, and you're going to be at your lowest, and then the next day, or you know like, it's going to slowly get better and then you're going to be in the highest, high and everything's going to be so great and eventually, like, the highs get higher, the lows don't go as low and you know, like you're, you're in a much better spot but I always tell people like what you said.

Speaker 1:

You know, if you feel like feel your feelings, lean into them. If you feel like crying cry it out throw the biggest pity party you can lay on the floor, kick, scream, cry, whatever you need to do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because then the next day you can get up, you can, you know, and you can move on. And you know, if you don't feel that you just shove, you're just shoving those feelings down and they're going to come out. You're either going to be angry at your kids or you're just going to be a miserable human. Uh, and it's just, it's just not healthy at all. So I love that you were able to do that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think the most important thing for me and I've told other people this is that I was never alone, Like I couldn't be alone unless I just needed a minute, because the minute I was alone is when I like my mind would just go crazy right Like your heart's racing, your mind's going crazy, um, and then you're back and forth like am I making the right decision, bless you, or is this not the right decision?

Speaker 2:

you know so, for me, even though my friends didn't always necessarily agree, it was like, hey, uh, I need to come watch a show or can you come over and hang out and drink a glass of wine like I just, especially when the kids, if they were gone, that was the hardest for me because it was they were never out of my reach. So then when they were gone, it was like, okay, somebody's got to go out with me, we got to do something. So I think, just for me personally, it was never being alone. If I needed somebody around, like I don't care who it is, find a friend, a girlfriend. I found lots of friends that were divorced and I would just go hang out with them or call them, uh, so that was a huge help too.

Speaker 2:

So because I think I think when you're alone, your mind really starts racing and and you can go to a really dark place. So having someone to just, even if you're talking about nothing, we we used to watch teen mom, like the neighbor girls would come over and we watched teen mom and literally the rule was no talking about the ex-husband right now. Like I don't want to hear how happy you guys are and I don't want to talk about my ex, I just want to talk about these crazy teen moms right now. Right, um, and, and honestly, it helped because it was like okay, now we have something to laugh about for a minute, um, and that helps me a lot. And then, honestly, working too, like you know, you have to get up and work, you have to get up and take the kids to school, so you can't just sit around and cry all day and it doesn't mean you don't have your moments, but it just you have to have a reason to keep going. So I think that's really important.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I totally agree, because to keep going. So I think that's really important. Yeah, I totally agree, cause there I mean I would do the same thing, I would go through the motions. Like you know, I only had one daughter, but I would you know I'd get up in the morning, I'd get her ready, I'd you know she'd go to school, I'd go to work. I'd come home, I'd you know we'd do our thing, I would tuck her in bed and then I would curl up in the fetal position and just sob for hours.

Speaker 2:

I get it.

Speaker 1:

Totally yeah. That was like yeah, like I mean totally normal, right, um, but yeah, but that was how I like, that was how I, you know, coped with it, and then I started like talking to people about it, cause I was so ashamed at first and I didn't tell anyone.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I didn't even tell anybody for six months at work that I was going through a divorce, like that's how ashamed I was. So you know, but what? But like what you said, I really loved um. You know that you did find like hey, I want to, I want to get together, I want to find something to laugh about, I want to not think about this, you know, and so that was really healing for you. And it wasn't until I finally started opening up and telling people that I started to heal.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I you brought a really good point because, oh my gosh, I remember, because I remember wanting to leave, like years before, years before. Well, again, like I thought getting pregnant was going to help us, and the stigma, because I remember my mom being divorced and like, oh, I bet people are judging her and we come from. Even though Grove City is big, it still feels very small and I've grown up here my whole life. He didn't, which helped a lot, but everyone like knew us and knew our kids and I just remember, oh my gosh, people are going to judge us so hard and they did Like honestly, I feel like a lot of people really did, and I remember being in a shoot-in about two or the first time you're like getting divorced and people are just kind of staring at you and it's funny we are talking about we Lead in Grove City and I was one of the little panelists a couple years ago and it was the first time in public that I said something about like being remarried and coming from a divorce and just there's such a stigma behind it and I get it to an extent but I don't, because it's just like people don't just settle anymore.

Speaker 2:

I feel like before I was such a controversy and it's like, well, you're not committed and that's just, it's not fair and it's not true, like it doesn't. That's not what it means, um, so I I do agree with that. I still think there's a stigma behind it to some degree. Um, but it it's definitely interesting and I I talk to women and I even know someone now that she needs to go through a divorce. She's had a very, very terrible marriage and it's the same thing with her and she's from a different culture and it just, you know, divorce isn't something talked about and she's stuck in a terrible abusive relationship and it's just, you wish that you could tell women.

Speaker 2:

It's just like you said, like I wish I had someone that said it sucks big time, it's gonna be the worst thing you ever go through. But then when you're here, it's like, oh yeah, cool, I survived that, whatever, go through it. But then when you're here, it's like, oh yeah, cool, I survived that, whatever. So I wish that stigma would kind of disappear. And sometimes I feel like people are a little bit harder when women want to leave too, because like, okay, well, you're a mom and a wife. Well, guess what? I still am and I still was a mom when I left. So I think I don't know, I don't know how we break through that, but hopefully, hopefully that will come.

Speaker 1:

I know I totally agree and I think that was like that was part of, you know, just kind of my like motivation. Um, behind creating Thrive and Decide, was to allow women to have that safe space to like talk about it and feel comfortable with being that person. That's like, yeah, you know what I'm not happy and it doesn't even matter. Like I love that you shared your story because it wasn't some big crazy thing. He didn't, you know, beat you up, he wasn't verbally abusive, he wasn't you know none of those things, but you weren't happy and that is huge. Like it is a huge thing that you know I think more women really need to like look inside and go, wow, like you know, I'm not happy. I'm not telling everyone to go out there and get a divorce like that.

Speaker 1:

I'm never like oh my God, you should do it, it's so fun. Like no like but if you're at that point and you're feeling like how you described, where you know you're just the shell and you're just basically a roommate with this person, yeah, like that is when you should decide like, okay, there is more to life here and I deserve better, and you know, and it should be, it should be okay, yeah, for you to choose that, because no one ever goes, you know, to the man whenever he's like well, I'm just not happy.

Speaker 2:

No, one goes oh, like you're like oh yeah, that, that tracks right, you know yeah, but that's that's the hardest part again, because I kind of initiated it, um, so that was the hardest part, but it is like you said. It's totally different than when you find that person that makes you happy and you have fun with and like. The thing with Ed and I is, not only are we happy and we get along, we push each other right.

Speaker 2:

So if it's like you know he's trying to do something in his work right now, so am I. He's just like, hey, you're fine, you got this quit. What are you crying about? You're totally fine. Like he has my back and I have his, and we're not just existing, like we're pushing each other to be better.

Speaker 2:

And our kids see that, like now the joke around our house is my 15 year old. If he gives me a hug or a kiss, my 15, 15 year old daughter's. Like that is so gross, you know, because he's a teen, right, but they didn't see any of that before. Like there never was that. So yeah, it probably is gross in your world. But now you're seeing, like this is actually how a spouse is supposed to treat their wife and so you know, if he brings us flowers or stuff like that, like really got that before. So now they're now the kids. I didn't just do it for me, I did it for them. Like now they're seeing, oh, this is how a boyfriend or girlfriend's supposed to treat me or um, so yeah, I mean, divorce is, is not fun, it's not for everyone, and I do believe in trying all the things before you get to that point.

Speaker 2:

But but, you know, sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and do what's best for you too, and I think I was with you, especially, coming from it, I was like this, is it, I'm gonna ruin the kids? Their life is over. And you know, I feel like it was for a little bit. Honestly, they had a really hard time. They, you know, on social media, in real media, in real life, people always think, oh, you guys are so happy, you're such a cute family and we are in a lot of ways. But, trust me, there's been doors slammed and yelling and, um, there's been a huge, huge adjustment and we are just now so we'll be married four years this year. We are just now at the point where it feels like we're just a family. We're not a blended family, we're just a family. Yeah, um, but it, it's hard and it's, but it's man, it's so much better, like so much better. Yeah, so it's.

Speaker 2:

You just gotta fight through it yeah you know, and and maybe that's not even getting remarried right, maybe it's just being single and just being happy and finding who you are. And that was a process too, and I feel like I'm still going through that, and I'm sure you maybe are too, and really it's just a woman thing too, like you're still trying to figure out who are you? What am I doing, especially when you're a mom and your whole life is for your kids. Like you, you lose that part and I think I don't think most men understand that. And that's not a put down, it's just they're not, their body didn't get changed, they didn't go through the hormones and now we're starting pre menopause, like they're not going through all that, right, um.

Speaker 1:

So I think you know, even if you're not getting remarried, just being single and finding yourself and just be happy and then find someone yeah, when I think that that is such a good um call out, because I've seen so many people get out of a divorce, um, I see it more. But there are a good bit of females that are like they cannot be alone and they feel like they can't be alone. And because if they're alone, you know, then they feel like they they're, you know they're losers or they just can't. That means they're gonna have to like, think about stuff and like who wants to think about stuff. You know they're losers or they just can't. That means they're gonna have to like, think about stuff and like who wants to think about stuff, you know. So, like I just think that.

Speaker 1:

Um, you know, I always tell people, figure out who you are and then, before you ever start dating, create a list. Create a list of things that you would love to have. If you created your perfect person, what would it have? Everything, I mean, it doesn't even matter. Like I want someone that loves to eat cheeseburgers Okay, cool. Like whatever you want that to be. And then do your deal breakers Like they you know my deal breakers were you know you must love me, love my kid and love my dog. Like, period, you, you have to have. Like you know somewhat, like I'm not going to be a sugar mama, so you have to have some sort of job, you know. So I mean like mine weren't crazy. But what I found was when I did start dating, I didn't waste my time on project. Yeah, I didn't settle. I was like, oh yeah, you don't even have 80%.

Speaker 2:

It's like when you're shopping for a house, if it doesn't have 80% of what I'm looking for, it's like when you're shopping for a house, if it doesn't have 80 percent of what I'm looking for, it's not even worth it yeah, you know, no, and that that is kind of I feel like that's what I went through too, because, you know, with my first I settled like I thought he was the perfect guy, but it was like we didn't even really know each other, like he didn't even know stuff about my past at all, never asked, didn't care. Uh, and looking back, it's like so strange to me like Ed and I literally know everything about each other, right, um, and I've never been more honest with anyone than I have been with him. And so to like, why did we get married? We didn't know each other. You know nothing about me and you experience nothing in life.

Speaker 2:

Um, so, yeah, I agree, like moving on to a second husband, I was like I already did that and settled I am not settling like you're not gonna be this, then bye, like I'd rather be on my own to be with someone. So, yeah, I think, having that list, and not only of what you want, but of what, like, you want to do in life too, and this, does this person meet that like do you love to travel? Do they want to travel with you? Because if not, how's that going to go?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

What are your plans after kids leave the house? Do they just want to work? And is that what you want? Because you know like with my ex.

Speaker 2:

Work was life for him and it just. I work super hard, I work 24-7. But I'm going to choose my family before I choose work, and to me it was never like that with him, and so if those don't meet, then don't settle for that person. So that, that, for me, is the biggest difference between this marriage too. Is we really, even when it's really tough, we talk about everything and get it out, and the good, the bad, the ugly, we just get it out, and having that is so different? It sounds like you know too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking time out. I know you have an amazing boutique to open, so Butterfly Boutique in Grove City. If you are looking for flowers, or I mean, I'm sitting in her shop and looking at all the amazing things, so yeah, so if you've never been here, please make sure that you come to Butterfly Boutique and check it out. Yeah, and I'd love to have you back on another time. Maybe we could talk about all the things that you did to kind of become like who you are, like the self journey. You know the self growth journey because I've been on on that as well. So I just think that you know anytime that we can pass on what we've learned I think is so empowering to other women, because I'd love to just have, you know, a world full of women that come out happy, healthy and are living you know their best lives.

Speaker 2:

I agree with you. I love it. I love you. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. Yeah, and we'll see you next time on Thrive and Decide.