Thrive & Decide Guide to Divorce and Beyond

How Therapy Rebuilds Identity During And After Divorce

• Sarah Thress • Season 2 • Episode 4

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Divorce can scramble your identity, rewrite your routines, and convince you that “I failed” is the only headline. Therapist Shauna Hoover joins us to show a better way through: build safety first, tell the truth second, and take small, repeatable steps that move grief out of your body and power back into your hands. We dig into how the first session should feel—validating, judgment-free, and focused on rapport—so you can actually breathe and talk. From there, Shauna walks us through a practical checklist: name three to five people who are truly safe, assess your current coping tactics without shame, and swap numbing for options you can sustain.

Together, we unpack the heavy myth of failure and how cultural checklists keep us stuck. Shauna reframes endings as data for growth, not a verdict on your future. We talk about radical acceptance as a hinge moment, the usefulness of “pity parties,” and why the right kind of therapeutic challenge accelerates healing. We also explore what really accelerates change between sessions: a simple “brain dump” note on your phone, quotes and lyrics that resonate, and creative outlets that give emotion a place to land—cooking, painting, reading, or your personal power anthem. Movement matters too; even a ten-minute walk can help clear what Shauna calls “divorce toxins” and reset your nervous system.

If you’ve ever felt judged, rushed, or unseen in therapy, we cover how to find a better fit and why rapport beats modality every time. Expect grounded tools you can try today, from conversation prompts for your support circle to micro-habits that soften the lows and lift the highs. Ready to trade shame for momentum and start writing your next chapter with intention? Follow the show, share this episode with a friend who needs it, and leave a quick review to help others find these tools.

If you want to connect with Shauna here is the best way:

https://www.insightfulsolutionsltd.com/#about

Her email is: shaunaHooverlpcc@gmail.com 

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.


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Meet Shauna Hoover, Therapist For Transitions

SPEAKER_01

Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce. This week we have Shauna Hoover on, and she is a therapist that, um, and if you guys know anything uh about me and you've listened to any of my episodes, you know that I think so highly of therapists. Um, and since I couldn't get my therapist on, because it's a conflict of interest, I went with um with Shauna, who is absolutely amazing. And I would say I would put her in the exact same category as mine, which as you've heard me say, she's worth her weight in gold. So um, you know, Shauna is the same. Uh, but she works um a lot with women that are going through divorce or like major life events, and she really helps them come out on the other side, you know, ready for their next chapter, which aligns so well with Thrive and Decide, because that is, you know, the goal here. So when I met Shauna and we started talking, uh, you know, I was just like, oh my gosh, I have to have her on the podcast. So, Shauna, thank you so much for taking time out to come on and talk with us.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. I'm looking forward to it. This is fun. It's a it's of course. So let's do it.

First Session Priorities And Building Safety

SPEAKER_01

I love it. Well, yeah, like I've said um a million times before, I would not be in the place that I am now if it were not for therapy. Because, you know, I when I was going through my divorce, I realized how much I had lost of myself and, you know, just how much I had given up on the goals and dreams that I had and forgotten about them. And, you know, therapy really helped me with that. So um I'd love for you to kind of just, you know, talk to us about, you know, whenever women come to you and and start talking about things, you know, and men, we're not, we're not man haters here. Um, but you know, if someone comes and starts talking to you, you know, how do you normally like approach the, you know, the first meeting? And, you know, like what are what are some things that, you know, some top tips maybe that you also give out, you know, in that first meeting?

Naming Support People And Coping Habits

SPEAKER_00

Well, the first meeting is usually pretty hard for people coming, starting out, especially if they've never had therapy before. Um, thankfully, in today's age, the stigma of therapy is kind of coming down a little bit. So I'm not, I'm often not the first therapist someone has had by the time they're going through a divorce. Uh, that being said, when someone comes in and they're in the midst of a divorce or they're considering divorce, or even immediately post-after, um, they're in a very vulnerable spot. Um, and they sometimes just need the person that is going to be there to be a set of ears that is not going to express bias, um, that they can come in and say, this is what's going on for me. That first session is a lot on my responsibility for that first session is to build that rapport and to help people feel supported and comfortable, regardless of what they present with. Um, and I've heard some really rough stories, um, but regardless of what they come in with, and they need to feel safe to be able to share those rough stories. And even the stories that aren't maybe as, you know, um historical or significant or not something that you hear, you know, you hear about on the news or like those big stories about what a terrible person the significant other was or uh the ex was. Maybe that person was a wonderful person. And that is why someone is feeling so um, they're struggling so much with the divorce because they're wonderful, but just not wonderful for them. So it's really about rapport, um, providing support and validation and normalizing their vulnerability. Um I will say, you know, you said some strategies in the first session. Um that's it really depends on the individual. Um, but I almost always ask in the very first session, like I need three to five support people, people that you can go to no matter what, 100% that you feel safe and you feel confident and you're able to say, This person has got my back, regardless of the circumstances. Um, and oftentimes that the client has to reflect a little bit because they are feeling so vulnerable and they're like, I this isn't someone, something I can share with the world, and that's why I'm here to see you, right? Um, but when I push a little bit, you know, and people start to reflect, well, you know, I really haven't one to burden someone, or I haven't one to, you know, let this individual know what's really been going on with my life, but they really would be a support person. They really do love me and care for me, and maybe it is okay for me to open up to that person. So that's an approach therapists often use. You know, who are your support people? Not because I want to know, um, even though that's also important for my, you know, all the clinical notes, um, but also because we really want to encourage in the session that people reflect on that. Because at a time like, you know, these really rough times, at a time of tragedy or a time of divorce, you really need people in your corner. So helping those that person figure that out is is pretty critical. The other thing is, you know, I mean, not to be cliche, but coping skills. Like, what are you doing to cope? Like, how do you cope? You know, are you just coping in a glass of wine at night, every night, and you crying yourself to sleep? Is that what you're doing to cope? You know, are you becoming um an addict to running and you're running every day and getting out all your emotions and all your anger and all the feels on the pavement? What are you doing to cope? Does that make sense for you? What are some other options? And then kind of going on from there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I love that because you you just hit on like so many things that uh I I just like went back, you know, 13 years. Oh good. Yeah, no, you did. Because I was like, oh my gosh, like that is so true. Because when I first started going through, you know, my divorce, I I didn't want to talk to anybody like at all. Like I would talk to my therapist and that was it. And then I literally for six months told nobody. I mean, like my parents knew, but like I told nobody else. I would go to work and I would act like everything was fine. I'd put my daughter to bed and then I would, you know, curl up in the fetal position and sob on my bathroom floor for hours, um, you know, for six months. And then, you know, then it turned into like a glass of wine and then two glasses of wine and then a bottle of wine. And, you know, it finally got to the point where I was like, holy crap, I am drinking a bottle of wine at night and that was my coping. You know, that was that was how I coped. And then once I started actually like, I think the reason I personally didn't want to start talking about it is I felt like I had failed. I felt like it was my fault, even though my ex was the one that left, you know, like he made the decision. I was like, it must be my fault. What did I do? Even though he kept telling me, like, it's not you, just don't love you, just haven't loved you, you know, for a while. And it's just, you know, it's not fair to stay, you know, married to you. And as much as that, you know, fucking sucked to hear. Like it, you know, it is like now it's a blessing that, you know, we're not together. But so as you were talking, I just kept going back there. And, you know, my poor therapist, she had to repeat herself for a year, like every time, like, Sarah, radical acceptance. Sarah, like, you know, you're you did nothing wrong. Like it just is what it is. Like, you know, and until I finally wrapped my brain around that, I I couldn't move past it. So I'm sure you you, I'm sure you're listening thinking, oh my God, like I've had this happen so many times.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, absolutely. And and and it's interesting the word that you is fail. I think that is um the number one descriptor that probably comes across people's, you know, ideas, their thoughts, their self-descriptor, I guess, um, is I'm a failure because I can't make this work. And, you know, how much of that is society's rules and what society dictates dictates is healthy, or um, you know, what what is necessary to be a good, successful person in this world is a happy marriage with the happy children, with the happy all, you know, all the things. So if I can't check those boxes, then I'm a failure. I'm failing myself, I'm failing my child or my children, I'm failing my my ex, I'm failing whoever it is, my parents. Um, so failure is a big piece of this. And when, you know, someone comes in for therapy and they're just like, I'm a failure. Even if they don't use those words, right? I mean, there's lots of words to describe that. But, you know, if they're coming in, they're saying I'm a failure, there are lots of different ways that as a therapist, we can, you know, support people until, you know, this isn't why I consider a failure. This is something that doesn't work. And just like anything, and most of us, if we have children, we teach our children like you have got to make mistakes to grow. You have got to make mistakes to learn, right? You you can spell a word wrong so many times, but eventually you're gonna get it right. If you never spelled the word wrong, where are the chances that you're ever gonna get it right in the first place? It's just not what happens. Well, relationships are very much the same way. If we don't fail, we don't ever know how to succeed. So failure leads to success. We've got to have failures. And to be able to accept that this to be able to accept that this did not work out and whether or not you want to describe it as a failure is entirely up to you. It's where it takes you. And we do. We have to, you know, sit there and we have to be available for our clients and you know, kind of get them through that. This is okay. This is okay that it happened. This does not reflect on you as a person. This does not reflect on you as a woman. This does not reflect on your ability to have a successful relationship. This is just who you are in this moment. Who do you want to be going forward? And it's very much about like, let's let's just, we're gonna session after session after session, however long it takes until we get you to go forward. And that's what we're looking at. What's what's what's ahead of this? What's not right here, but what's out there? How do we keep moving?

Shame, “Failure,” And Reframing Divorce

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love that. And I love that you um, you know, encourage people to have uh, you know, their support system in place because I don't think I really took a step at healing until I started finally telling people like, hey, you know, this is what's going on in my life, like I'm actually getting a divorce, like, you know, like here's you know, here's all the things. And then, you know, once I started talking about it, it felt like less, I felt less guilty, less like I failed, less like, you know, like it was more like, no, you know what, like this is just something that happened. Like, you know, and now I've gotten to the point. I mean, yes, I'm 13 years out, but like now I've gotten to the point that I'm just like, okay, like, you know, like here, I'll talk about it all day long. Like it is what it is. You know, I'm not gonna like fall into a puddle of tears. Um, but trust me, there was plenty of times that I fell into puddles of tears. Um, and I I think that's the other thing that I also try to make sure women understand, you know, when they come to me, um, you know, like my, you know, anyone that comes to me and confides in me about you know what they're going through. I'm just like, look, here are the things, you know, about divorce. Like nothing about divorce is fair. It's just, it's not. And it's a roller coaster. There are the, you know, like there are highs. There are days where you're like, I got this. And then there are lows. There are days that you just want to throw yourself the biggest fucking pity party ever. And that's what I say. Like, do it, throw that pity party, lean into those feelings, like, you know, feel it fully. If you want to cry, cry it out. Because the next day you're gonna be able to pull up those big girl panties and move on. Like, and it's gonna be so much easier. And all of a sudden the highs get higher and the lows don't get as low. I mean, do you notice like things like that with your clients too?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, let me uh let me go back to um, you know, what you said about telling people first. Yeah. Um there are two things with that. If anyone has experience with, and even if they don't, I'm sure they've all heard, um, anyone who's done uh has family members or they themselves has issue have issues with addiction, whether it be drug or alcohol, um, or something else, right? Uh gambling, smoking, whatever it is. Um you part of the 13 steps, right? For uh, well, even if you don't use the the rigorous step program, right, is you have to tell people. Because by telling people, you are giving yourself agency. This is a choice that I am making, this is a step that I am making to take control back of my life. I'm choosing to tell people this very vulnerable thing that's happened to me. And then from there, you know, it once you kind of rip off the band-aid, if you will, that this is what's happening, this is what I'm going through, then you start to find out, okay, all these people around me know. And they're supportive. The people that aren't supportive may step out of their lives, and that's okay too. They they're they're not they're not the people for you at this time in your life, and that's okay. Um, but once you take that step, it is the acceptance of going through the grieving process. If it is crying it out, if it is, you know, um just doing the pity party, you know, what whatever it is. And I'm not gonna say you should drink a bottle of wine a night, obviously, because I'm a therapist, I'm not allowed to say that. But if you have, if you drink a little bit in excess, not to the point of addiction, please, um, that is okay. Pity parties are not bad. We're all gonna have them at some point in our lives, whether or not it's because of a divorce or another reason. We have so many emotions charging through our brains, especially women. We we have all those hormonal stuff happening, you know, through puberty and menopause and perimenopause and you know, being pregnant and then having children. We are by default emotional beings and we deserve to let that out. And until you actually go back and you are able to say, This is what's happening to me, it's going to feel restricted. It's going to feel like I can't cry, it's going to feel like I can't express myself. And and you're it is going to take a toll on you physically, mentally, um, with your other relationships in your world. If you do not crack that egg and let out the goo that's inside, you're not going to overcome that. So you absolutely need to be able to take that step. First, with this is who I am, this is what I'm going through. Second is who in my circle is here for me and who isn't. And then third, yeah, let it go. Whatever that means, you let it out, let it go. Um, ideally, this is my my plug. Everyone should have a therapist, right? Like to because the therapist is gonna hopefully guide you um along a path that's safe when you're doing it. And so you you don't necessarily become self-destructive. But all those things are necessary. They all have to happen in order for you to heal and grow.

Grief Waves, Pity Parties, And Acceptance

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love that. Well, and yeah, like the the wine thing, I think uh I think the other thing is when you're talking with your therapist, because yes, I will always, you know, always advocate for therapy and tell people that you need to have a therapist. I I will talk openly about my therapy, you know, like it just I think it's so crucial for everybody. But the biggest thing is you're not going to get anything out of therapy if you're not telling the truth. You have to be vulnerable. You have to tell. So, did I want to tell my therapist that I'd been drinking a bottle of wine at night to cope? No, I was so ashamed of myself for like getting to that point. But I did, and she was like, Okay, well, probably not the healthiest decision. Like, is there is there something else we could do? Like, you know, but she had, you know, but the way that she, you know, talked to me after me sharing this about her, she could have been like, oh my God, you're an alcoholic. Like, you know, and that's in my brain, that's what I thought she was gonna say. But she didn't. She would just like she goes, okay, like, how do you feel about that? Like, maybe, you know, maybe try doing just half a bottle of wine, you know, like maybe just try that. Maybe just try, you know, one glass. Like, maybe, you know, like she and so she helped me to work through it to understand, like, yeah, no, I don't want to go down this path. I don't want to become an alcoholic. Like, you know, it also didn't help that as we were at the store, my daughter goes, Oh, that black cat wine, that's what you drink, mommy. And I was like, Oh god. Yeah. So you know, that also um helped with, you know, changing my habits. But, you know, but I think that that's the biggest thing is, you know, people are so worried that they're gonna get judged, that they don't feel like they can be open and honest and vulnerable. And that's the beauty of therapy. You can do all of that because it's gonna stay in that vault.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And not only can you do it in therapy, but through the process of therapy. I think we can all learn how to be vulnerable in a safe way, um, so that we can take that vulnerability outside of the therapy space and we figure out who in our community, in our circles that we can be vulnerable with. Um I mean, therapy is great, and ideally it's gonna help you and give you the strength to, you know, take take the issues and take the the concerns and take the stigmas and take the judgment that you fear um and put it outside of the therapy space, right? So therapy is almost a um, you know, a test run, a trial, right? Like this is how I'm feeling. Is this okay? And if I'm feeling okay with this here, what can I feel okay with outside of here? So that you know, you can have that engagement with a therapist um and be able to then work with your closest friend, talk with your closest friend, talk with, you know, a sibling or even a parent or um, you know, in some cases an ex, which is always interesting when that happens. But um which I've had that happen where the the sounding board is actually ends up being the ex. So it it's um a very interesting dynamic. Um so yeah, how how to feel safe in therapy is a growth platform for how to feel safe outside of therapy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. No, I totally agree. Cause it is a great way to, you know, like talk to someone and practice maybe how you're gonna say it to others, so that then, you know, you start talking to other people. And then you've got them, like I always say, like, you know, like your small support system outside of, you know, therapy is kind of like the supplement to therapy. So, you know, you're you're going to therapy like, you know, once a month or every you know, every other week or once a week, you know, what whatever it is that you decide is the best plan for you is what you should do. But, you know, in between there, you know, unfortunately you can't, uh, you know, I at least I don't think you can, um, you know, just live at your therapist's office and have them 24-7.

SPEAKER_00

I've had I've had clients ask, but no, that's that's not healthy. It's not a healthy choice.

SPEAKER_01

But it's if you can't have that, you would have your supplement of people outside, and then you know, you can you can hash it out like with your, you know, with your therapist in the session.

Radical Honesty In Therapy Without Judgment

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And you know, um, to go back to what you said about um the you were afraid to tell your therapist like how much you were drinking. Um I have certainly had women come in to see me that have it has taken them more than a year to really uncover stuff, to really talk about stuff. And it, I mean, it really every every client relationship you have is different. Um, but so there is a statistic out there, um, and maybe that's changed. It was back when I was in grad school, but the statistic was 80% of therapy is based off good rapport. It is not what the therapist knows, it is not um the therapeutic approach, it is not what the, you know, what methodology, right? Um, you know, if you're Ericksonian or Freudian or, you know, what your therapeutic approach is as a therapist, that does not matter in session with the client as much as rapport. It can take a very long time to be able to open up and share what you need to share with your clinician or with your therapist. And that's fine. That is okay. Some therapists may get a little antsy, especially if they're newer in the field. Like, gosh, I know there's more there. I know there's something buried and they're just not uncovering it. You know, and and that's the therapist's role to say, okay, I'm gonna poke and prod you a little bit, right? Like I'm going to um challenge you. If your therapist isn't challenging you to push your boundaries a little bit, um, Then you might want to check in with that report. Like, how safe do I feel? Is this person pushing me to grow? And if they're not, that's okay. Maybe you need to find a different therapist. No therapist is the right fit for everyone. It just doesn't work that way. And ideally, you meet with, you know, unfortunately, the insurance system doesn't always work this way, but ideally, you have the opportunity to meet with multiple therapists, right? And say, you know what, I feel really good with this person. Now, also theoretically, the best idea is that you walk in and you have that instant connection. You're like, yeah, this is good. I like this. This makes sense. Um, and I feel safe with this person. So I'm going to be able to talk to them. Uh, if you find that person, it can still take a while to open up about whatever it is. Maybe you just need to get out so badly that you just, here it is, here's the whole thing. You don't know. Um, so it's okay to feel all the feelings. It's okay to challenge yourself, and it's okay to find a therapist that feels right for you. If you can't find someone in the first or second try, keep trying. Just because we're therapists does not mean we're on a pedestal. That does not mean we are right. That does not, you know, did I graduate at the top of my class? No. Like, but that doesn't matter, right? That's the it it is, do I feel safe with this person? Can I connect with this person? And then you make that decision and then you move forward, whether it be with that person or with someone else. But it's all about the rapport, it's all about the sense of security and safety that you feel with an individual. Can I be vulnerable with them? Are they going to judge me? Am I willing to risk that judgment?

SPEAKER_01

I think that's huge. And it's almost like dating, you know, because like, you know, like you're you're trying to figure out, like, you know, on the first date, like, uh, like, could I see myself making out with them? Could I see myself like, you know, like that could I talk to them? Like, do I want to hang out with them? Do I want to travel with them? You know, all of that. So it's obviously different whenever it's a therapist. But again, like you're not just gonna marry the very first person you go out on a date with, you know, well, maybe you will, but hopefully not, unless you unless you are one of the extra special people in the world that found your person on the very first date. Good for you. Yeah. Good for you.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Odds are that is not true though. No. So just dating. Right. Exactly. So just like dating, you know, it's like if, you know, with therapy. And like I had a couple of different therapists before I found mine, and that they just they were, they were not it. Like, you know, their their style, their approach, their, you know, I had one therapist who enjoyed talking about herself um more than she enjoyed listening to me. Um, so that was that was fun. I was like, okay, well, I I I, you know, I get that people love to tell me their stories, but like I'm not your therapist. So like I'm here for you uh to help me. Um, you know, and then I had the next one that would just sit there and just stare at me and just wait for me to talk. And I was like, yeah, no, no, no, okay, you know, not in the beginning, like, you know, and so then whenever I met, you know, my my therapist that I had been with for, you know, that I've been with for over a decade, you know, she was just like, oh my gosh, like, you know, like I um, you know, she she was just so great, like we just connected on such a level that I was like, okay, I could talk to this woman, like, you know, and then we just got to be like such, you know, I felt like I was going to visit my best friend, you know, and I looked forward to therapy. I was like, yes, I get to go see her and I get to tell her about this and this and you know, talk through this, you know, these are the good things I want to tell her, and these are the bad things I want to process with her.

unknown

Yeah.

Rapport Over Method: Finding The Right Fit

SPEAKER_00

Therapists are human beings. Um, and we all have our baggage, right? What whatever it is, um, those often, you know, the reasons we get into therapy or, you know, what we have going on in our home lives, or what, you know, traumas we may have experienced, whatever we we're human beings. We all have our our experiences. Um, you know, when you said the first therapist that you saw talked more about herself, my brain immediately went to, ooh, what did you trigger in her? Or what, why were you intimidating to her that she felt comfortable talking about herself? That she she was like, okay, or maybe I shouldn't even say comfortable. It was easier for her to talk about herself than it was to challenge you. So, like, okay, uh, you know, I don't really know how to approach what Sarah's bringing to the table here. So I'm gonna give her my experiences because I feel safe in that place, right? So, were you intimidating to her? Is my first thought. Um, and then you talked about the second therapist who just sat there and listened. There is something in the therapy world that we call therapeutic silence. There are times where we absolutely have to employ that in our sessions. It is often uncomfortable for both of us, the therapist and the client, but it can be very powerful. For someone to struggle, or I shouldn't say struggle, for someone who presents that way in the very first session with you, or first one or two sessions with you, you know. My thought is like, is that that person's approach? Like, how willing are they really to get into this? Like, are they really to go at it? So if I just give them the time and the space and they're just ready to unfold and unload, then I'm the therapist for them. I shouldn't have to push, I shouldn't have to challenge. Again, it's it's the approach, right? Um therapeutic silence is very powerful. Uh, I have had clients who will, you know, they'll talk the whole time and I listen. And then eventually they're like, wait, what do you wait? I'm sorry, I haven't given you an opportunity to speak. What do you what do you think about all that? You know, and I'm just like, okay, well, you know, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. I'm gonna, you know, open up this here. Why do you think it took you so long to get to this point? Like, is this a thing of insecurity or is this a thing of safety? You just want to get it all out on the table that now you are able to reflect and say, hold on, I'm in therapy and I want therapy. Like, how do I do this? Right. Um, but then there are other times as a therapist where I'm gonna say, Sarah, stop, hold on, stop, let's go back a few steps. You said this. Can you tell me more about that? Because that's a pretty significant thing. And I don't want to miss that. I don't want to glaze past that. And when you come back to women and men going through a divorce, feeling like failure, failures, uh, fearing judgment, having a hard time with vulnerability, it is so much easier just to do the talking. I'm just gonna talk, blah blah blah blah blah. I'm just gonna say it all. I'm just gonna get all out there. And then they can be like, and then the therapist is gonna go back and say, Hold on, let's explore that. They're like, Oh shit, they heard that? Okay, I have to, I guess I have to do this. And that's the therapist pushing the you know, challenging the client and pushing their boundaries a little bit, like let's let's let's do this, let's talk about this. Sometimes the client will say, I know, I don't want to talk about that. And then my role as a support person and as a therapist is to say, okay, how do you feel about revisiting that later? Like this is a pretty significant the fact that you are not okay talking about it tells me it needs to needs to happen. Are you gonna be okay if we revisit that? Sometimes clients will say no, that is just a no-go place for me. No go zone, not happening. Most of the time, clients will say, I'm not at that point, I'll get there. And when I am, then yes, I will talk with you about it. Most times a therapy, you know, therapist says, Can we revisit that? Can we explore that? Then the client's like, Oh yeah. I guess I said that, didn't I? Okay, let's talk about it. And it usually happens in the same session. So again, there is no right or wrong to therapy. There's no right or wrong to your therapeutic relationship, there's no right or wrong to you know what you express or what you don't express. It just has to feel right. And you keep working until you do, whether it be with the therapist or whether that be in the therapy session with what you're sharing.

unknown

It's a journey. Yeah.

Brain Dumps, Journals, And Processing Between Sessions

SPEAKER_01

It is, it's such a journey. And it's so funny because um, yeah, I mean, like I've said, literally every session for a year, and I was going every other week to every three weeks. Like, so I was going a lot. She would repeat herself every time. God love her heart, never acted the same thing. But once I got through that, and once I finally wrapped my head around radical acceptance, I was like, oh. And then that's when I was able to really get into the deep stuff, you know, that I needed to work on that I didn't even know I needed to work on. And then, you know, like you mentioned um people coming in and just like, you know, just like word vomiting, that's what I call it. Um, is, you know, just like telling you everything. I found myself word vomiting to my therapist about whatever I was thinking about that day. But I had other things that at the end I'd be like, oh, wait, I forgot I wanted to talk about blah, blah, blah, which needed an entire session itself, you know. So I started, here's a tip for people. This is what I started doing. I started, um, as I was thinking about things in between my sessions, if I was like, oh, I really need to talk to her about blah, blah, blah, you know, or I really need to tell her I felt this or whatever. I started making a note in my phone of topics, things that I wanted to talk about. And I literally just called it like, you know, like brain dumps for therapy. And so I would just like brain dump in there of what it was that I wanted to talk about so that then in the next session, I could pull up my notes and I could go, okay, so I wanted to talk about this. I think I actually, you know, and some of the things I had already resolved by the time I had, you know, had gotten there. You know, and some were like they were, you know, it didn't even need to be addressed. But at least I had that there. But there was always something, you know, that then I was getting out of it what I wanted. And then I could just word vomit whatever random, you know, shit was in my head that day.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Yeah, I always encourage clients to um brain dump between sessions. Um, and you know, whether or not that be on their phone or whether or not they carry around a journal, whatever it is, um a lot happens emotionally, but then also in the world around us between our therapy sessions. Um what happens between the sessions is as important as what happens in the session. And oftentimes what happens between the sessions is more important because you walk out of a therapy session feeling like, whoo, that felt good, right? I just got rid of all that stuff. And then you march into your life for the next week or next two weeks, whatever it is, um, feeling a little bit lighter, hopefully, sometimes a little heavier, but you're actually, you know, kind of getting rid of some weight when you do the the word vomit, um, or the brain dumping session. But the processing that happens after a session is huge. And what comes up during that processing is critical to kind of explore what you just brain dumped, but also what need what wouldn't have come up for you had you not just done the word vomit, had you not just had the session. So, I mean, you kind of think of it, you know, therapy is like you go in, you have these sessions, you unload, and then you push that stuff away. It doesn't mean it's gone, right? You just push it out of the way. So, like if if you're, you know, going through a swamp, you're mucking everything out for every step, you're getting closer to the other end. Well, you're clearing out your brain, you're clearing out all the stuff and you're moving forward. Doesn't mean that stuff is gone, doesn't mean that stuff is forgotten. Um, it doesn't mean that you can't go back and revisit the stuff because sometimes we need to do that. But it's how to kind of cleanse yourself to see what then is next. It's so critical. Journaling, I mean, you can call it journaling or you can call it brain dump or whatever, or you just make notes between sessions, whatever it is. I do like so I'm not a journaling person, and I am not ever gonna be the therapist that says someone needs to sit down and do journaling all the time. Um, because you you have to have the right, you have to be the right person to that. Journaling is hard. Um, however, I do encourage people, especially if they're a creative person, um, that um you have an outlet to use that creativity. And so whether or not that be a journal and you write down whatever you're feeling, or you just write down words. Um, I absolutely encourage people just to use words. Like if a word pops up, write it down. I don't know what it means. I don't even know what it means. You just write it down. Um, if you see something in a magazine or a book, a picture, and it resonates you, it triggers you in some way, write it down somewhere. You know, you can make a middle note of it, but if you're anything like me, I'm not gonna remember the middle notes. I've got to get it out so I can revisit it. Um, quotes. I love quotes. Now, can I regurgitate regurgitate them to you? No, absolutely not. But I have a list of quotes that really resonate with me. I absolutely support people. Like if they're feeling really um, you know, uh heartbroken or really devastated or something and they want to pull up quotes about devastation, then okay, pull up a quote. Does that resonate? Does that feel good? Why? And then you can talk about in therapy the next week. Um, same thing with songs or lyrics, you know, something that's really powerful. A lot of people do self-help books. Self-help books can be great for that kind of thing. Um, and some people choose to do fantasy or fiction and just like nosedive into this is someone else's world, this is not my reality, and I don't want it to be my reality, and this is gonna be me, but you may still see something in there that resonates with you because that is who you are and that's your personality type. Anything you want to take from that back to therapy, that's great. And if not at all, that's okay too. You don't have to share all those things with the therapist. Just again, this comes back to you're on your journey and everyone's journey is unique. So, you know, what you do between the sessions, just know that that is as critical, if not more critical, than what happens in the session.

Music, Books, And Creative Outlets For Healing

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love that. And I um I it's so funny that you said the the song um in, you know, in self-help books and stuff like that, because um, so my I I call it like my theme song, like my power song. Um, and so when I was going through my divorce, that was whenever Katie Perry's roar was so um powerful and it was like so popular. And anytime that I was having like a day, you know, either I was sad or I just needed to feel, you know, like I just needed a hype woman, I would, you know, I'd put that on and I'd sing it at the top of my lungs and I'd be like, yeah, you know, like I am fearless, I got this, like, you know, and that's so I always try and, you know, help people like what's your song? Like, what is your empowerment song that when you're having a shitty day, you can play it and you're gonna dance around your house or you're gonna sing at the top of your lungs in your car. You know, I like to perform in my car because I'm amazing in the car when no one else is there. Yeah. People joining the acoustics get all messed up. I don't know. It's weird. But yeah, but like that was like that was my song. And then, you know, as far as like books, anything by Brene Brown, I found so amazing because she was so good about vulnerability, you know, like that's her, that's her big thing. So, you know, Daring Greatly uh was one that was huge for me. Um, Ariana Huffington, her on becoming uh fearless in life love work. Oh, that one was so good. Like these were so like that's what I did, you know, like and I still will listen to books. I, you know, I listen to the books. I don't have time to sit down and read. So I, you know, have an audible subscription and whatever, but you can get it from the library too, which is what I try and tell people like you you you can do this for free. You can literally go to the library, get it on CD, or you can do it through their their app and you know, all of that. Yeah. Anyways, I just loved that. Um, you know, those tips that you that you gave. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, another really great one, and of course it depends on the person and you know who you are and what works for you is um using a creative outlet. So, you know, um cooking. If you really like to cook, try just try a new recipe every week, once a week. Like this is my goal, I'm gonna cook. Um, because it's you know, seeing something, having an outcome, doing something physical and then being proud of the results, right? It's it's measurable and some people need um exercise, I think, is huge. And that's really hard when you're feeling really depressed and really vulnerable. But when I say exercise, I mean going on a walk, I mean whatever, because there is um enough research at this point that really connects, you know, talks about the brain body and the movement piece and um you know what going outside and going on a walk can do for you. And if you can't go outside because it's frigid temperatures or whatever is happening in Ohio or anywhere else in the world, is you know, I I don't care if you do jumping jacks in your basement or you walk on your treadmill or whatever it is, because everyone needs to find something and and you just have to try different things and you figure out, you know, this is this, you know, for one person it may be an audible book. For another person, it may be like I need that tactile book for it to really sink in. I need to go at a pace that I can make work for me. Someone else, it might be, you know, I'm gonna draw, I'm gonna start paying, I'm gonna take a painting class, um, making recipes, taking a cooking class, um, you know, dancing, turning up that music and dancing, getting rid of the toxins. If you've ever had a massage and then the massage therapist is like, okay, you're gonna be really sore, you're really, you know, you're really tight, the tension is high. So you need to drink a lot of water and get rid of those toxins. Same thing. I mean, when you have that much negative energy, your body knows it. You gotta get it out, you gotta shake it out, you gotta move it, whatever it is, however you do it, get rid of the toxins that are often what I would call divorce toxins, right? That just kind of build up and they feel sticky and gross and sludgy. You can't get out of them. Get them off of you physically, get them out of you mentally, emotionally, whatever, verbally, any way you can. Yeah, it's very real. I mean, it does affect us in every way, as you know, emotionally, physically, um, it in every aspect of our lives.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I love that. Yes, I love that. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day. I know that you know, you've got a lot of clients and you've got a lot of stuff going on. So it really means a lot that you took time out to come on here and talk. And I think the information you shared was absolutely invaluable and you know, like just I think invaluable, right? It's very valuable. I can't put a price on it. How about that? Price list, priceless. How about that? I was like, did I just insult her?

SPEAKER_00

Stop. It doesn't matter, right? Everyone gets the point. We're good. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, very valuable. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Yes, yes, been my pleasure.

SPEAKER_00

I really think we're doing it.

Movement, “Divorce Toxins,” And Daily Practices

SPEAKER_01

Excellent. And if anybody listening um is like, holy crap, I need Shauna as a therapist. Yes, you do. Um, by the way, uh, you know, I'm gonna have all of her information in the show notes so that you can find her and um, you know, try and uh try and work with her to to get to the other side and you know become the best version of yourself because that's that's the goal here. So beautiful. Thank you. Of course, of course. Thank you so much for joining us. Please make sure that you are rating and uh leaving a review. A five star review would be amazing. Um, any of the uh information you leave uh as you know, comments is great feedback for me. So thank you. And make sure you're subscribing so you never miss another episode. Thanks so much, and I will see you next time on Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce.