What If The Best Divorce Deal Is Not Half

The marital home can turn into the loudest argument in a divorce and not because of the numbers. It’s memory, stability, kids, fear, and that ultra-low interest rate you locked in years ago. We sit down with Genna Queen, a mortgage lender who specializes in divorce mortgage strategy, to cut through the noise and get practical about the decision: keep the house, sell it, or structure an equity buyout that doesn’t wreck your future cash flow.

We talk about how real mortgage rules work during divorce, including the uncomfortable truth that a divorce decree doesn’t magically remove someone from a mortgage note. Genna explains common timelines courts allow for refinance after divorce, why “I can afford the current payment” is not the same as qualifying for a new loan with a buyout, and when a HELOC might help short term versus when it can create budget stress with variable rates. We also dig into negotiation strategy, like when it can make sense to trade assets by keeping more home equity instead of taking the same value from a 401(k).

We go deep on one of the biggest questions we hear: can alimony and child support count as income for a mortgage? Genna lays out the documentation requirements, the six-month history lenders want to see, and why support structure (monthly vs lump sum) can change your options. If you want to make a calm, informed housing decision during divorce, this conversation gives you the framework.

If this helped, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s navigating divorce, and leave a quick review so more people can find it. What’s the hardest part of deciding what to do with the house?

To connect with Genna Queen, Ruoff Mortgage

https://www.ruoff.com/gennaqueen

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.

Sarah Thress
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce. This week we have Jenna Queen, and she is with Ruof, and she is absolutely amazing. She's one of those mortgage, you know, lenders that really wants to help the person and really kind of meets you where you're at. And one of the things that she specializes in is divorce mortgage specialties. So I wanted her to kind of come on and talk to us about kind of what goes into the decision making when you're looking at, you know, the marital home while you're going through a divorce and just all the ways that she can kind of help you make an informed decision. So, Jenna, thank you so much for coming on today.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Thanks for having me. I'm super excited for the opportunity and hopefully, you know, um work through some myths, maybe I think that um are in the whole divorce process and what that looks like, kind of simplify it.

Goals First Then Real Options

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yeah, I love that. So let's just say that someone's coming to you for the first time and they're, you know, going through uh the divorce process and they're trying to figure out, you know, what they should do with their home. You know, walk me through kind of the process. What would you do uh with that person to kind of help them get started?

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Sure. Yeah, so a lot of what I do is, you know, walking through options. I think that in a divorce scenario, depending on who um initiated it, I think sometimes we feel like options are all taken away. And when it comes to the marital home, you know, are you going to keep it? Are you going to sell it? How does everything get split? There are just a lot of misconceptions. And I work with a lot of women, um, divorced or not. Um, and I think that, you know, kind of gaining financial literacy about your entire situation before the divorce is final is so huge. And so a lot of times, you know, I have clients that reach out and say, hey, we're just starting the process. I know it's gonna be a while, but I want to know what my options are. And I just literally had this conversation with someone yesterday who said, you know what, we're gonna, we're gonna do a little bit of therapy. Um, I'm not sure how effective that will be. So I want to know what my options are. And so, you know, I tell people all the time, I'm happy to have a, you know, zero pressure conversation to walk you through what some options could be, because in some scenarios, it actually helps to have your alimony uh basically uh paid out in a different way if you're looking to buy something. Or, you know, there are a lot of different things that go into that. So, you know, the first thing I would say is that when someone is, you know, either initiating it or thinking about it, um, you know, we want to have that conversation to say, what's your goal? You know, I want to know what her goal is. Do you want to keep the house? Uh, you know, are you unsure about qualifications? Um, is this something where really, you know, another thing that I bring up is, you know, what's the upkeep of the house? Is it something that you're it's going to be viable for you? Um, I know for myself, I have a house. And um, you know, in my scenario, when, you know, I got divorced, you know, that first year when I had to do all the yard work and things like that, I thought to myself, man, I was not fully prepared for, you know, all of this and everything that it entails. And so sometimes that conversation may even be, well, now that I think about it, I'm not 100% sure that I want to do all of that upkeep or, you know, pay it out uh in order to get it done for me. And so then we talk about what some other viable options might be, whether it's a condo or something in a you know, lower maintenance community, things like that, um, just to kind of open their eyes up.

Equity Trades And Bigger Picture

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah. I love that. And I love that you're having them look at their entire, you know, like financial portfolio. Uh, I think that's where working with, you know, a certified divorce financial planner is also key, uh, you know, because I think they kind of go hand in hand with the mortgage lender because, you know, then you're gonna be able to have a full picture.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yes, 100%. I mean, I think that there are so many nuances, you know, within this space um, you know, of divorce financing or, you know, divorce finance in general. I mean, even things where, you know, I work with a lot of the financial planners to say, here's what, you know, they have, uh, whether it's 401ks, things like that, here's what is set to be divided, and how can we maximize that? You know, for example, in some scenarios, it may benefit you to uh see if you can negotiate keeping more of the equity in the house versus taking someone's part of your spouse's 401k. Um, you know, we're still talking dollars, but you know, if you think about it with a home, your equity is gonna grow. And, you know, with the 401k, you're gonna have growth as well. But, you know, once you pull that money out of it, depending on what you do with it, um, you know, you may not be gaining as much as you would if you said, you know what, rather than take 50% of your 401k, um I'll keep 25% more of the equity in the home, you know, or you know, something along those lines to where it's still the same dollar amount, but making your money work a little bit more for you than just split everything down the middle and you know, then figure out what to do with it.

Refinance Timelines And Mortgage Reality

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, I love that. And I love that you give the the different um options because I think a lot of times people just assume, like, you know, especially here in Ohio, we're a dower state. So they're like, oh, I get half of everything. So I get half the house, half the 401k, half of this and that. And it's like, well, not necessarily, you know, sometimes you have to look at the big picture and figure out what is in your your best interest, what is in the best interest of the family, you know, as a whole. Because, you know, even though you're getting a divorce, especially if there's children involved, you clearly don't want the other spouse to, you know, to suffer too much. You know, right, right. Because you still have to think about your kid and and know that you know they're in a great situation as well. So I love that you bring those up. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, so then once they decide, you know, hey, I really want to stay in the house, are there options other than refinancing? Because I know a lot of times what I get um from clients is they say, well, you know, I'm locked into that 2% interest rate that I got, you know, during COVID, which was, you know, freaking amazing. And we're likely never gonna see that again. So they're like, well, I don't want to go to, you know, 6% or, you know, 5% or whatever, you know, we're at currently. Um, you know, like obviously based on whatever this airs on what it is currently. So, you know, I just what do you what do you say to them when they're like, you know, I want to keep this house, but I know that, you know, I can't refinance or anything like that. What like how do you kind of help them with that?

HELOCs Versus Cash Out Refinance

Pre Approval As Courtroom Leverage

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah. So I mean, you bring up a really good point, and that is that in the past, you know, we had amazing rates. And so, you know, the first piece of that is that there are options. So, you know, we'll kind of walk through what those options would be. The other piece of it has to do with who's actually on the mortgage. So, as you mentioned, Ohio is a dower state. So, yes, rightfully, um, you know, each spouse is entitled to 50% equity in the property unless or unless they signed off dower rights at, you know, closing. Um, all that being said, yes, there are different ways to kind of move those amounts around. But as far as the refinance goes, one thing that um people may or may not know is that, you know, when you go and finalize your divorce, the you know, house is considered one of the marital assets. And the judge is typically going to dictate what has to be done with the house and in a time period. And so I have some clients that come to me and say, you know, um, yeah, I'm gonna have to refinance. Do I need to do it right now? Or um, you know, oh, well, I have to sell because X, Y, and Z. And so something that's super important to understand is that usually there's like a 12 to 18 month window, you know, that you have to be able to refinance and get your spouse off of the mortgage. So, you know, I think that a lot of that comes down to, you know, how amicable things are. Sometimes your spouse may say, you know what, I take that 18 months because the interest is lower right now, I'm fine. If the spouse or, you know, now ex-spouse is going to be buying something else, they may need you to do it right away because they can't qualify for both payments. And so even though it's been awarded in the divorce decree, that does not trump who's on the mortgage and who's on the deed to the house. And so a lot of times, um, you know, let's say that one partner defaults on the loan, it's still gonna hit your credit. It doesn't matter that it was then their responsibility. That is why it can be important to get things done as far as the refinance, or um, you know, if one person was maybe on the deed, but not on the mortgage, that makes life a whole lot easier. Um, but it does also give us as women, gives us a little bit of bargaining power because, you know, let's say you want to keep the house and your spouse needs to be refinanced off the mortgage, assuming both were on the mortgage, you know, the court documents may say 12 to 18 months. And let's say that your ex-spouse wants that money right away or up front, that gives you some bargaining power to say, well, you know, technically I have 18 months, but you know, if you want me to do it now, let's talk about maybe trying to negotiate a different equity split or something like that. Um, so as far as other loan products, yes, if you have a great interest rate, let's say from, you know, during COVID and things like that, you know, sometimes refinancing can double your interest rate. Um, last year I had a client that was in that scenario where we needed to do the cash out refinance and her rate went from sub 3% to, you know, the market rate. Um, and so it was taking the payment up considerably. However, um, you know, at that point, she just wanted to be done. She wanted him off the mortgage. She wanted to be done and free of that one less thing hanging over her head. She had just gotten a raise that we could utilize as far as qualifying. And so, you know, that was um, you know, a huge win for her. Another option, let's say that, you know, the ex-spouse is fine staying on the mortgage and you know, so that they can keep the rate, another option would be a home equity, home equity line of credit. So um HELOCs basically are, you know, a second lien position. And you can draw on them. It depends on how much equity you have in your home. So if you don't have a whole lot of equity in the home, a HELOC is not going to be a good option for you. Um, but you know, all that said, the HELOCs, their interest rate is gonna be fire. Um, and a lot of times it's variable. So, you know, your payment is going to be determined based on how much you've drawn on it. And, you know, the rate is typically typically fluctuating. And so for some clients, that fluctuation is not really um a good way to set up their budget for them. So in those scenarios, I would say, you know what, let's figure out how we can do pull the cash out with a refinance, and then you have a set monthly payment every month, it's not going to change. Um, in some scenarios, depending on how much you have to pay out to the ex-spouse, um a home equity line, can make a good um option short term. Um, I don't love them long term because it seems like some of them allow interest-only payments, which can be helpful, but you never get it paid off. And so, you know, my goal is always to put my clients in the best financial situation possible, five, even five and 10 years down the road. You know, right now is one thing, but you know, I want someone to be comfortable with where they're at um as you know, we get down the road. And so that's typically where that conversation will come in. And it is very much case by case with who's actually on the mortgage, who's on the deed. Um, you know, what do the court documents say if it's been filed? So for some people, we take care of the division of the house and do the equity buyout before their divorce is even finalized. And so, you know, there are nuances that come with that as well. But um, you know, those are the things that in that discovery call, we start to kind of weed through um to figure out can we make it work? Can we qualify? Um, and a lot of what I do is actually basically pre-approving women for their equity buyout. So, you know, people don't think of, oh, I need to do a refinance, let me get a pre-approval. But um, that is a lot of what I do so that then when they go to court, if it's, you know, if they're arguing over who gets to keep the house, she can say, I've already met with a lender, I'm pre-approved for this refinance to be able to buy them out. I'm good to go. I income qualify and you know, we move from there.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah. And I love that. And I love that um, you know, the that you uh recommend, you know, getting that approval because I think, I think especially during a divorce, I mean, always, but especially during a divorce, knowledge is power. And so knowing what you qualify for instead of just standing there in court and being like, well, I mean, I could, I could look at doing this, you know, and then um again, you're just incurring even more court costs and even more, you know, attorney fees and things like that. So instead being proactive and getting that pre-approval um can really save a lot of time and money, you know, in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yep, 100%. And, you know, I think it gives um, you know, a sense of security and knowing, you know, that, you know, yes, uh refinancing it at today's market rate won't be a problem. I can also walk them through here's what the payment's gonna be, you know, when we do the refinance. Because for some people, they say, well, I can afford it, meaning they can afford the current payment. But when you add the cash out that you have to give to the ex-pouse to buy them out, then they may say, Oh, okay, well, I'm not sure. So then sometimes you can say, Okay, well, uh, you know, I'm not going to go after the house. Maybe I want the equity out of it so that then I can in turn take that and, you know, buy something that is a little bit more affordable, you know, or fits a different scenario.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah. And I like that you approach it from a knowledge standpoint because a lot of times during divorce, um, as you know, I mean, you and I have both gone through a divorce, uh, it's really easy to get lost in the emotion of the divorce and attach emotion to things, you know, to assets, to the home. So, you know, I think that by getting all of this information, it also makes it easier to then say, okay, this is just a business decision. This is not based on how I feel, whether I think it's fair or not, because, you know, like spoiler alert, nothing about divorce is fair. Right, right. Like nothing. Um, so you know, I think it's good though that, you know, people can be armored, you know, with like armed with those decisions, and then they can make the decision based off of knowledge and facts versus, you know, emotions and oh, but I want the house. Well, okay, you want it, but like, does it make financial sense for you? And if it doesn't, then what can we do that will make financial sense for you? Maybe it does make sense to sell the property, split the equity, take what you got from the equity, purchase something else, you know, even though it's a higher interest rate, instead of focusing on the interest rate alone, focus on can I afford this payment? And that's it. Correct. Is it going to be what I need?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Right. It, you know, it definitely having that conversation ahead of time allows us to be strategic about what the next steps are. And so, you know, when we have that conversation early, we can then develop a game plan of this is what that timeline's gonna look like. You know, obviously, as you and I both know, you can never determine how long it's gonna take till it's finalized. But I can give you the timeline for what the loan process would take. Um, you know, if you want to start with that. Or, you know, like you said, maybe we decide that, you know what, even though you may have wanted the house, it's not the best decision. And, you know, then it comes into let's be strategic about your next property and how you purchase that. Some women automatically think, oh, I'm just gonna put all that money down. Um, you know, because it came out of my house, I want to put it back into another house. That may be needed in some situations, you know, but in other situations, I point out that, hey, you know, your monthly expenses are all gonna be on you now, you know, all the utilities and things like that. You know, you may want more of a nest egg, um, you know, sitting back. And so sometimes that's a conversation that we have too, is that it may not be benefit you to put all of that money down, you know. Remember that we need to keep money out for, you know, X, Y, and Z. Um, and for some, you know, if they weren't involved really in the first loan process, um, a lot of times this is truly the first time that they're even wrapping their head around, you know, managing um their own home, managing the finances. Um, you know, because I mean, how many times have we just said, oh yeah, you handle it, you know, and then you sign on the dotted line. But um, you know, this is their opportunity to, you know, go through and to be empowered by that information. And, you know, yes, the the knowledge and the strategy and the facts are a what enables you to be able to take the emotion out of it. Um, and you know, just to make it as a strategic business decision, what's gonna set them up uh for the best case scenario in the long run?

Emotion Proof Housing Decisions

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, I love that. Now, I know um sometimes I will also get questions um from clients, you know, that uh they're like, okay, so you know, I wasn't the breadwinner and um, you know, or I haven't worked outside of the home, but I know that I'm gonna get alimony and child support. Um can that count as, you know, towards their income? So maybe they have no income, or maybe they have a very small income. And with that, you know, alimony, child support, things like that, it would up them, but can they even count that as um income?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah, yeah. So I'm really glad you brought that up. I mean, that's typically the first question that I ask is are you receiving any alimony or child support? Yes, that can count as income. So it is viable income. Um, there are a couple caveats to it. We need to see that that alimony or child support, whatever the monthly payment that's coming in, we need to see that it's been coming into the account for the same amount every single time for at least six months. And so in most scenarios, you know, even before the divorce is finalized, you may have filed a separation or, you know, something like that to where when the ex-spouse moves out of the house, they start paying. And so we just need to see that that consistent amount is going into their, you know, checking or whatever account they have it going into, uh, not Venmo, not Zell, you know, we need to see, you know, actual deposits and you know, for six months. And once we've seen it for six months, then you know, that can be viable income. The one thing that we look for is that it needs to have a three-year continuance. So the child support we can count. Um, but with alimony, alimony, whether it's a lump sum payment or you know, monthly installments or even an annual installment is fine too. We just need to know that it's gonna continue for at least three years from the date that we close your loan. So whether it's a refinance or whether it is a purchase, um, you know, as long as there's a three-year continuance, um we're good to go. But the strategy, once again, comes into play with if you know you're gonna get alimony, sometimes a lump sum is offered, which can be helpful because you know, you can clear things up, get moved, all those things. However, um, a lot of times people don't even think about the fact that if you get it monthly, it can be used as income. If you get it as a lump sum, once you've spent it, you know, then it's done. And so in some scenarios, let's say someone isn't working outside the home or they are, but the income is lower, having the choice, if they have the choice, but having the choice of getting that in um monthly or annual payments, you know, across spread across um, you know, a certain amount of time is actually gonna be more beneficial for them than it would be if they just got a lump sum because we can't use that as you know, income per se. So, you know, kind of asking the questions and starting the quest for the knowledge of that early is huge.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah. No, I think that's so great. Cause yeah, I do hear, you know, some women that are just like, you know, oh, well, I'm gonna be getting um, you know, alimony and I'm just gonna, you know, I'm gonna get one lump sum and I'm just gonna put it all down on a house and I'm just, you know, like, and it's like, okay, well, that uh, you know, have you spoken with, cause I try and stay in my lane, of course, but you know, I always try and make sure, like, have you spoken with a, you know, a certified divorce financial planner? Have you spoken with a mortgage, you know, specialist that specializes in divorce, you know, all of those things just to make sure that they are actually, you know, finding out all of their options versus just um, you know, just throwing money wherever they think is is the right place to throw it. Okay, I think I lost you there for a minute, but now you're back, so it's all good. Um, but yeah, like we were saying, you know, knowledge is power. And, you know, another thing that um, you know, that I get asked is, you know, when in the process can I start this? Like, do I have to wait until I've gone through all the hoops of, you know, getting divorced and I have the divorce decree before I can come talk to you or, you know, get this started? Or can I, you know, can I start it the day that I start thinking like, ugh, I think this is not gonna work?

Using Support Payments To Qualify

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah, so that's a great question. Um, you can start it before the process is finalized. Um, you can start it technically even before, you know, the separation is, you know, filed. Um, one thing that I like to point out is that uh let's say that as um the female in the relationship, you know, you say, you know what, I can handle this mortgage payment. So you move out and I'm gonna start paying it. One thing to remember is that the longer it takes you to refinance or anything like that, you know, or sell for that matter, um That's more equity out of each payment that you're making that's going to your spouse or soon to be ex-spouse. And so, you know, if you take over the payments and you know, then it's another 12 to 18 months, that's 12 to 18 months of payments that you're only going to get to keep half of that equity. So you're literally putting money into their pockets, you know, if you wait longer. A lot of times this isn't something that, you know, your attorneys say can be done. So, you know, you're going to want to talk to your attorneys about that. Um, but if the decision's been made and we know that we want to move forward with it, a lot of times, you know, earlier is better. Um, and you know, the divorce does not have to be finalized. Um, you know, this can be one of the steps that happens in order to get it finalized. So, you know, in some scenarios, being able to check that off the list, you know, and then you can work on dividing everything else out, um, you know, tends to get the ball rolling.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So I know we've covered um a lot of things today. Um, is there any other like myth or anything, you know, frequently asked thing um that we maybe haven't covered that you can think of um that you'd love to kind of get out there? Because, you know, I I love using you as a resource. I love having you in my toolbox. You know, I just think that uh, you know, obviously putting people on a bench, I kind of like to think of it as you've got a bench behind you, you know, like if you've ever played sports, you got your team behind you. And I love having you as one of those teammates that we can just kind of call up whenever we we need help. So um just thought I would give you a chance to, you know, give throw out some other things, uh, knowledge tidbits.

Start Early And Final Myths

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Sure. Um, you know, I would say probably the last piece of it is that uh you can qualify most times for more than what you might think. And so don't automatically count yourself out, you know, of keeping the house or of being able to buy something new. Um, don't automatically count yourself out until we've had that conversation. Because the way that underwriting for a mortgage calculates income is very different than what people would guess. And so, you know, that's where that conversation early on comes into play, um, especially if maybe you have an idea of alimony or child support, what that might be. Um, or, you know, let's say that you are working outside the home and so you do have your own, you know, usable income. Let's, you know, talk about that and make sure that all of that's viable. But I think just understanding that um, you know, don't assume anything because a lot of times people are very pleasantly surprised with, you know, that they can qualify on their own or that, you know, it would be affordable. Or I mean, even that, you know, the judge dictates that, you know, the property has to be refinanced or sold, but that you have a little bit of time there. And so I think every situation is different, but a conversation to start gathering information um is is so hugely beneficial. And um, you know, I kind of fell into this niche of, you know, home financing uh even before I was divorced. And it just, you know, people started sending me clients, you know, um, that they knew were going to be getting divorced. And I'm like, man, what a blessing, you know, to be able to serve this specific community. And, you know, I've kind of joked before that, you know, like you said, I'm in your toolbox, but you know, I want to be the name that's whispered amongst sisters or cousins or female coworkers that say, hey, if you're gonna be getting a divorce, you need to call Jenna, you know, because she can walk you through what some of those options might be. And so, you know, while uh in the beginning it just seemed to be something I fell into and then ended up getting divorced myself and, you know, walked through that process too. But um, yeah, just, you know, gather the information and, you know, allow people to help you as well. Because I think so many times uh as women and as moms, you know, we're so used to being the default parent and, you know, handling the household and all of those things, um, that, you know, this is a great opportunity where, you know, you can allow someone else to help or to help guide those decisions.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yeah. Perfect. I love that. Thank you so much for taking time out today and coming on and you know, sharing all of your knowledge. Uh, I will make sure that I have all of your information in the show notes so that if people are listening and they're like, oh my gosh, I need to work with her. Thank you. Um, but yeah, so I'll make sure that everything's there so that they can reach out to you.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Awesome. Thank you so much, Sarah. I really appreciate the opportunity. And, you know, hopefully, um, you know, this can make someone's process a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah, I think so. Thank you. You're welcome. And we'll see you next time on Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce.