Five Quiet Signals A Marriage Is Failing

The scariest part of a marriage ending is how quiet it can look from the outside. One day you realize the jokes have teeth, the warmth is gone, and you’re living side by side instead of together. We sit down with Dr. Becky Whetstone, marriage therapist and author of I Think I Want Out, to unpack her viral framework for the five invisible signs a marriage is dying and why so many couples miss them until divorce feels inevitable.

We dig into what those warning signs actually look like in real life: sarcasm and snark replacing kindness, disrespect in front of other people, spending more time away from home, sudden changes in appearance that hint at a “backup plan,” and the most chilling one of all, emotional withdrawal and apathy. We also get blunt about verbal and emotional abuse, because “mean” and “cruel” still count even when there are no bruises. If you’ve been minimizing what’s happening, this conversation gives you language, clarity, and a stronger sense of what you should not tolerate.

From there we zoom out to the practical choices: how to make time for your relationship when kids and stress take over, why dating your spouse still matters, and why marriage therapy can be the difference between a painful split and a real turnaround when both people are reasonable and willing. We also share divorce recovery guidance we wish everyone heard sooner, including learning to be alone, building financial independence, and creating a realistic Plan B so you never feel trapped. If you’re navigating a high-conflict split, we explain how a divorce doula can help connect you to the right attorney, financial planner, and real estate strategy.

If this gave you a gut check, subscribe so you don’t miss what comes next, share it with a friend who’s quietly struggling, and leave a review to help more people find Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce. What’s one “invisible sign” you’ve seen that people ignore too long?

Dr. Becky Whetstone's Info:

Link to the blog we discussed today: https://marriagecrisismanager.com/signs-marriage-is-dying/

Website | https://marriagecrisismanager.com/
Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/relationshipcrisismanager/
X | https://x.com/DoctorBecky
Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/doctorbecky/
LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/becky-whetstone-ph-d-33866211/
Medium | https://medium.com/@doctorbecky

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce. This week we have Dr. Becky Whetstone on, and she's been on before. Uh, and I just absolutely loved talking with her. And, you know, we agreed at the end that we had so much more that we could discuss. So I was so glad that uh she agreed to come back. So, Becky, thank you so much for coming back on. Thanks for having me on. It's my favorite subject. Everybody knows. Right. I know, and you're so good at it. And I know we were kind of talking um, you know, previously before recording, and we talked about, you know, uh, you know, there's a lot of times that, you know, women feel like, well, my marriage is just kind of good enough. And, you know, I know when I was going through, you know, prior to my divorce process, uh, you know, my ex-husband and I would kind of get to a spot where we'd be like, well, maybe we should take a break. And then one or both of us would be like, no, I don't want to give up. And so then, you know, we'd be go back to living life and everything would be great for a few months. And then, you know, one or the other of us would be like, well, maybe we should just take a break. And, you know, that kind of went on uh for, you know, over a year until finally he was just like, yeah, no, like I'm done. Um, and so I just would love to, you know, hear, you know, some of the things that you've come across, you know, because you've got your book, you know, I think I want out, which is absolutely amazing. I'll definitely have a link. Anyone listening, I'll have a link to this book. But um, you know, I know we were talking about kind of like the five invisible signs of a dying marriage, because I I can't imagine that I'm the only one out there that, you know, that kind of went through this.

Why Couples Miss The Warning Signs

Sign One Sarcasm Replaces Kindness

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I'm sure you've heard it before. 600,000 divorces in America every year. And that's it's on the lower end. I mean, that maybe it's 675, you know, it's higher, it's actually higher than 600. Um, so there's I I look at it as like every single one of those people is struggling, you know. So that's it's if it's 600,000 divorces, that's over a million people who went through this process of the deteriorating marriage. Um, and I just wrote a blog that went kind of viral about this subject very recently, and it's called The Five Invisible Signs A Marriage Is Dying. And then I put in parentheses, most couples miss them because it's true. And and the pattern that I have seen is that women peck, peck, peck, peck, peck away at their husbands. I need change, I need more, you're not doing enough, you know, and then they finally run out of fuel and give up. That's how the female comes, and it's 75% of the time women are the initiators of divorce. Men, on the other hand, suffer over a period of time, usually, and don't go to their wife and say, I am really struggling in the marriage, we need to do some. They literally wait usually until they've bottomed out and they have nothing left, which is what your husband did. Yes. But as I say in the blog, since we can't count on our spouse necessarily to tell us that they're seriously struggling in the marriage, so it pays to be aware of the signs that you might see so that you can have a conversation. And the first sign is sarcasm and snark replace kindness.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

You know, whenever you're trying, uh, it's sometimes hard because you're like, okay, like I, you know, I'm just I'm not gonna say anything today, but then that sarcasm and snarkiness comes right out.

Sign Two Disrespect And Hidden Abuse

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Oh, yeah. So, you know, we're usually not sarcastic and snarky when we're madly in love or in the honeymoon stage. So think about it. We're we do go to quite a bit of effort on the front end to bring our best self to the relationship. Now, someone like me, who's a marriage therapist, is going to tell couples it is your responsibility to bring your best self to the marriage every day, you know, and it's hard, it's super hard. But if if someone's being snarky, chilly, um, then that's a pretty good sign that their best self is not showing up anymore. So they're not there, you can see that they're not making the effort they used to make. And and the ship is, let's just say, got a leak in it and is sinking a little bit. And that's a sign and a symptom of that. And sign number two, when it's getting even more serious, is when they say disrespectful things to you in front of others.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

I have witnessed that so many times with um, you know, like with friends watching, you know, them and their spouses. And, you know, those are the the friends of mine that uh, you know, are are now divorced. But, you know, leading up to the divorce, you know, I I can still remember, you know, one husband just always, you know, picking on his wife. And I just thought, my God, this poor woman, you know, and uh it was very obvious that that marriage um, you know, wasn't gonna last. And, you know, in my in mine, I didn't notice that anything was, you know, really negatively being said about me until after. And then I started like looking back and I was like, wow, I was like, okay. And it was actually, to be perfectly honest with you, it was my uh my now ex-husband uh that pointed out, like, Sarah, I wasn't even that nice to you. And I was like, huh, yeah, you weren't. He really just like helped me, you know. I just like kept like I kept the problem was I kept shrinking. And I think that a lot of women do that. You know, once you get married and you, you know, you have children and you kind of lose a little bit of, you know, yourself and then you forget about the dreams and goals that you had. And so you just keep, you know, sinking smaller and smaller, smaller because you want to make your, you want to be the best wife, you want to be the best mom, you want to make your marriage work. And, you know, so you let those things slide. So I'd love to hear your take on that. Not my story, but what but your, you know, like your take on that number.

Sign Three Living More Separately

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Well, I think that, you know, the problem starts with when we decide to marry somebody, usually we're their stock is very high from our perspective. You may even think they're the best person you've ever met. And none of this was ever true. They never were the best person you ever met, you know. And what happens is is your perspe your vision becomes more accurate in time to where you're seeing who they really are. And uh-oh, this person's human and has flaws. So the stock drops because it had to. It had to. Now, some people, you know, are mature enough to go, this is expected. We knew it wasn't going to be Disney World the whole all the whole time through, you know. But and the other thing I've have found too is that a lot of people, especially women, um, are not aware of what qualifies as abuse and what doesn't. Okay. And if someone says something, if your spouse says something very rude to you, like you're lazy or you know, you're not capable of doing X, Y, or Z, look, I got news for y'all. That is verbal and emotional abuse. Okay. It's not a lot of people think it's got to be this big, huge, giant thing to fall into the abuse category, and it doesn't. If it's cruel, if it's mean, that's abuse, you know, through the mouth, and they're trying to emotionally harm you. So, you know, a lot of women come in and say, Well, I told my husband, I think he's abusing me, and he said, This isn't abuse. But when I go over it with them, we find out that it was. So I think, too, if we can say to ourselves, well, I am being abused, then now I know I have the right to stand up for myself against this kind of behavior. And, you know, I encourage all women to not put up, or and men too, do not put up with a spouse who is unkind and rude and disrespectful to you in private or anywhere else. Now, this, you know, we all get a pass on, you know, friendly teasing of our spouse. But when it's truly laced with contempt, that's in a different category. Yeah. The third uh invisible sign is when your spouse or you get really, really unhappy in the relationship, you start spending more time away from your spouse. You might go back to school, start working out, doing hobbies, or traveling, or something. That so you tell yourself I can hang on so long as I've got these other interesting things going on over here. And sometimes that's an affair. But many times it's you know, I'm gonna start working out, I'm gonna go back to college and finish my degree or something like that, or get a job or whatever. So if you've noticed your spouse is spending less time at home uh by choice, wake up.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, that's interesting because I have seen um, you know, several uh, you know, several people that I've worked with that are just like, you know, yeah, like I, you know, I started going to the gym more and you know, then I started working out. And then, you know, I realized, oh, hey, like there are people out there, and you know, this person at the gym is giving me uh attention that I don't get at home. And, you know, and so it it starts to, you know, play play into that. But yeah, I've seen that, you know, I've talked to, you know, I've I've talked to men who have said, like, hey, I started noticing my wife was working out all the time and I thought, wow, this is so great. You know, she's she's getting in shape, she's taking care of herself. And um, and then those are generally the ones that come back and they're like, yeah, so I want a divorce. Like now, you know, I'm I'm hot and ready, and I've got, you know, someone else to be.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Some people are getting ready to be single again, you know. Yeah. So they are, you know, trying to be more presentable. I wish that people though would not rush from one relationship to the next. I really feel like after you come out of a divorce, there needs to be a period of time where you learn to be alone and you get healthy in that, and that you take stock of what just happened and learn the lessons and work to correct your part in it, you know, of what didn't work. But if you step from one thing to another, the odds are so against you if you haven't done the work in between.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah, I totally agree. I um I ended up taking uh a year off, just you know, I didn't even think about dating. I didn't even think about, you know, like even trying to fill that void because I just I was still lost in grief, but I also was trying to figure out what did I do wrong? Because that's always like my go-to. Like, what could I have done differently? And, you know, I'd say for the first part of the year, I was like, oh, okay, like, you know, maybe if I fix this, like we'll get back together. And then it was very obvious that we weren't. And then it was like, okay, well, what could I learn from this and move on? And so I'm really glad that I did that. Um, and I try to give that advice to people, you know, like because I learned so much about myself. And like I said, I forgot about all the goals and dreams I had had when I was younger. And that year allowed me to like remember some of those and you know, figure out like, what are the things that I like? You know, and I finally got to the point that I was like, I don't need anybody. Uh, you know, I can take care of myself and and I'll be I'll be totally fine. And of course, that's whenever I met my now husband.

Sign Four Sudden Image Makeovers

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Well, I got news for everybody. You can't have a healthy relationship with anybody if you cannot be alone. You know, supporting yourself financially, emotionally. To me, uh marriage licenses should not be issued for people who have never been alone and who who uh can't support themselves financially, you know, because now you know now you're setting yourself up to be dependent on this other person. And if it doesn't work out, you won't have many options, you know, and you may feel trapped and stuck because you can't afford to pay rent on your own. So I tell women, like, get yourself, you know, be able to be alone so that you're you're nimble on your feet, you can leave if you have to, and you can support yourself. So it's okay to be a stay-at-home mom or wife, but you gotta have a plan B in case it doesn't work out. It breaks my heart to see women that are financially dependent on their spouse, and their spouse leaves them, and then they many end up destitute overnight because of it, you know. So plan for that. Um sign number four, invisible sign number four is ch sudden changes in appearance. Wow, that's a big one. Yeah, yeah. Um people want to, you know, that are thinking I'm gonna be on the dating market again soon. I may have to take my clothes off and for somebody, you know, gonna work out and get myself uh prepared for this, you know. And so, yeah. It's to attract people, I think. Unless you know there are people who do those things for themselves, thank God, which which I hope is the real reason people are doing it. But I've talked to enough people to know that and and heard them say, well, I knew I was getting ready to be dating. I knew I was gonna probably be intimate again.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

So they weren't through it. I know that's so true. I always call that like the backup plan, like they're coming up with their backup plan. So they're they're finding um, you know, people to hang out with that don't know that spouse, or they're, you know, joining a gym uh whenever they've never worked out, you know, like in the time that you've known them, or um, you know, just really looking at ways to build an entire life without you in it. Uh, you know, yeah, that's definitely a sign that, um, you know, because I see it very common, you know, it's like, okay, well, you know, because you're scared to leave if you don't know what's gonna happen. And so you think, well, I can control this by, you know, creating this group of friends or by going to the gym and and looking so great and, you know, switching jobs or whatever, whatever it is that you think is gonna be part of your backup plan to make it better. I feel like there's a lot of people out there that, you know, that just kind of look at that because they need to have that safety net before jumping.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah. And but you know what I tell women women and men do not fear the future after divorce, you know, because if you know that you're capable and that you're smart and that you can figure anything out and you're a survivor, then there is nothing to be worried about. You will land on your feet, you will make things happen, you will be successful. So, and this is my mantra. I always say, I'm smart, I'm capable, I can figure anything out, so I have nothing to fear for tomorrow. Yeah, whatever comes up, we can figure it out, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah. Well, and I always think um, you know, if that person had maybe put more time into figuring out how to fix the marriage versus creating that backup plan, maybe their marriage wouldn't have ended. Maybe it would have, but maybe it would have at least ended in a different way on a more positive note where you know both parties could move on and learn from it and um you know come out healthier.

Sign Five Emotional Withdrawal And Apathy

SPEAKER_01 18:01

98% of the people I work with do have no idea how much work it takes to keep a marriage stoked and alive. You know, I think of it as having another job, you know, something that you really you cannot, it's like if you have a plant and you never take care of it, it's probably not gonna make it the marriage is is exactly the same way. Yeah, the last the last invisible sign is emotional withdrawal. And um, and and we've probably all been in relationships before, even friendships where you feel the disconnect. And it's like that person has unplugged from how they formerly felt about you and valued you, and you can feel it, it's like a chill. It's almost like a apathy, like they just don't care. Yeah, you know, and it's awful. You know, the opposite of love is not hate, they say it's apathy.

unknown 19:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah. Apathy is worse than hate. You just simply don't care at all.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That is so true though. Um, you know, when you do start to feel that, you know, because uh, you know, some of the the people that I've worked with, you know, have have been like, you know, hey, like my husband stopped coming to bed, like he falls asleep on the couch all the time now. My husband doesn't want to, you know, doesn't want to have sex anymore, um, you know, or like just looks at porn too much um instead of having sex, you know, just like there's all these things out there that uh are signs that uh that they're they're checked out.

Kids, Babysitters, And Marriage Time

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Oh yeah. You know, like does your spouse's face light up when you walk in the room? I hope so. If not, what the hell? Right. I mean, you know, and I know that I've got plenty of clients, you know, who are like two living two parallel lives, but they're not connecting one friggin' bit. But they put no time into it, you know, and usually people tell me they had kids, life got hectic, and they dropped the ball on the relationship. And that is so high risk. So high risk. I just my sister told me my sister was 17 years older than I am, and when I was a teen and she was like 30 and she had two little kids, she told me, my advice to you, Becky, is don't have kids unless you can afford a nanny. And if you have a nanny, you can focus on your relationship way more than if you don't have a nanny. You know, you can actually go to dinner with your husband on a weeknight and the nannies got it, you know. So I do think, you know, if you can afford babysitters and and nannies and stuff like that, then you're gonna have to do something like that to be able to focus on your relationship. So it's it's kind of expensive, I know. And then in this day and time, I've seen a lot of people who refuse to have any kind of babysitter for their kid ever. You know, because they're scared. They're you know, they're afraid that these people are gonna abuse their child. And I don't know, man. I used utilized babysitters right and left, you know, when my kids were growing up. Otherwise, I would have would not have had a life. Do you what do you think about the babysitter thing?

Keep Dating And Get Professional Help

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Do you think it's yeah, no, I think it's good. I mean, my kids are my youngest is 17, so we don't have to worry about babysitters anymore. Yeah. But um, but yeah, I mean, I think that's so true though. I mean, my I think you just have to find the, you know, find somebody that you can trust. Like, you know, or start trading it with another mom, you know, just be like, hey, if you'll watch my kids tonight so I can go out to dinner with my husband, I'll watch your kids, you know, another night so that you and your husband can go out. So there's always ways to find that. You don't have to just, you know, go on like caresitter.com or whatever and you know, find a babysitter. And if you don't have family that lives close by, like I totally get it, or maybe you don't have family you trust, totally get that too. Um, you know, like all of those are true. But I think that, you know, to your point, you really do if you're seeing these signs and you really don't want your marriage to end, the best way to try and fix it is to make your spouse a priority. So date them, continue to date your spouse. So all the things you did when he was courting you, like try and do those again. And so that does require like getting a babysitter. Now, if you have tried that and there's still those signs and it's still not working, then it's probably Time to go ahead and just you know call it what it is and and move on.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

But you know, unless your spouse is like really horrible, I like to see see people fight for their marriage and exhaust every possibility for working it out if you have kids, you know, like uh I don't think divorce should be an easy decision, I guess, is what I'm saying. Like it's yeah, it's it's gonna affect everybody, you know. And um what drives me crazy is people that get divorced who never did go to a marriage therapist, never did go try to learn anything about having a healthy relationship, you know, and they call the marriage, you know, I'm out, and and there may have been a whole lot of stuff that could have been done, but they never went and got professional help. I mean, you probably wouldn't treat your brain cancer yourself, you know. I don't know what it is about coming to a therapy to for your marriage that you know so many people are averse to, but it can make all the difference. I have client after client after client tell me we would have divorced if we had not come here.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Yeah. You know, so yeah. No, I think that's such good, um, you know, that's good insight. And uh, you know, I'm like with you. I mean, just because I went through a divorce doesn't mean I'm like, ooh, everyone should go through it. Everyone needs to get divorced. Like, oh, he's being mean to you today. Yep, time for a divorce. Like, you know, like that's not it at all. Um, but I also know that sometimes you do get to that point where you know you have trade everything and it just isn't meant to be, and that's okay, you know, like that's why there is a process of divorce.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yes, there is. And you know, I must say that sometimes two really great people just are not compatible, we're not meant for each other, you know. So you don't have to have a villain to get divorced, is what I'm saying.

What A Divorce Doula Actually Does

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, I know exactly. Like, you know, I mean, even though I shared that, you know, my husband was just my ex-husband was just like, oh, I, you know, I just I I I don't love you, you know, I I won out. Um, you know, as painful as that was to hear, I actually am so glad that he did. And he's not a bad person, he just wasn't my person, and that's okay. You know, now he's happily married and I'm happily married, and you know, our daughter gets to see both of us very happily married. And, you know, so it's it's good. Um, you know, and I know it doesn't always work out that way for everybody, and you know, it and not everybody gets divorced, and some people just stay in the marriages, even if they see those, you know, hidden signs. And that's okay. Everyone gets to choose what their path is. Uh, I just love that there's people like you out there that they can come to uh to see if there is something that they can do to save it. And if there's not, then, you know, at least then there's people like me out there that can, you know, be their divorce doula and walk them through the process and and just help them to, you know, make sure that they're they're getting all of their needs met, uh, you know, with like getting them attached to the resources that they need.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

So you're a divorce doula, and what do you do when one of the um spouses is a extreme problem child? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Um that's where a lot of patience um comes in, and just kind of, you know, just making sure that I'm staying grounded and not matching their energy. Um, and you know, that's where uh, you know, a lot of times that only comes up really whenever I am trying to help them sell their house because I'm also a divorce real estate specialist.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Oh my God. I didn't even know there was such a thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah. So that's whenever it gets kind of um kind of crazy, you know, because there's especially if one of the spouses really, really wants the house or really doesn't want this, you know, this divorce, uh, you know, or they're narcissistic. Um, you know, and so a lot of times if they're narcissistic, I'll connect the spouse that's dealing with the narcissist to a narcissistic coach that literally can help them get ungaslit. So it allows them to be able to stay calm whenever that person is, you know, gaslighting, button pushing, you know, all the things that you want to say that they're doing. Um, but yeah, so a lot of times what I'm doing is just kind of walking alongside the woman, helping them to get connected to the proper attorney, you know, because some people need a bulldog and some people just need someone that can just facilitate the divorce. And that's two totally different types of attorneys. And then, you know, I connect them to an estate planning attorney so that they can make sure that they're getting their estate plans correct, so that years down the road, they're not like, oh crap, I didn't change this beneficiary and you know, he's still getting XYZ. Um, you know, and then I help them with a financial planner so that, you know, maybe they haven't worked outside of the home and uh, you know, and they need someone to help them figure out what, you know, okay, hey, I'm gonna get this much in spousal support, I'm gonna get this much in child support, uh, or I'm getting none of that. How am I gonna make this work? Um, you know, and so then they're able to kind of help them look at what makes the most sense instead of just sell the house or just take the 401k buyout or just take, you know, there's a lot of different pieces and parts that go in there. So finding a certified divorce financial planner is definitely key. And so I connect them to that. And then, you know, obviously when it comes to the as, you know, the real estate part of it, um, I help them walk through like if you want to stay here, okay. Let's look at can you absorb the mortgage? Can you, you know, because a lot of people have those really, really low rates and they don't want to give up on that. I totally get it. And, you know, or could you afford it? Or does it make the most sense for you to go ahead and sell it, split the equity, move on, start fresh, you know? So I like to just help women have all the options so that they can make an empowered decision. So as a divorce doula, that's what I do is just kind of like walk alongside them as they're, you know, like they're they're going through the labor of a divorce.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Do you only represent women?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

No, I would represent I would represent men. I'm not a man hater at all. It just tends to be women that um gravitate to me more.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

So do you work with a couple, the both of them at the same time or just one?

When One Spouse Is Unreasonable

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Just one. Really, like whoever has come to me and and wants the the help. Like I said, it's normally women because men normally think they can do it all on their own and uh they don't need any help, which is fine. Yeah. Which is fine. But yeah, no, I'm by no means a man hater, and I would absolutely help a man. Uh, I mean, I've helped in um I had one real estate transaction that it was the um the wife that you know was really holding up the process, and the the husband was super easy to work with and you know was ready to be done, and she was just really kind of shooting herself in the foot because she couldn't get past her feelings. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Well, you know, I work with couples usually. I mean, it's it's because I help people in marriage crisis, and um, but if I get somebody that's a problem child, they may get fired. Because, you know, you can't have a you can't have a good, so-called good divorce with someone like that that's verbally and emotionally abusive. You cannot. So what'll happen in those scenarios sometimes is they'll start abusing me. Yep. And so I'm seeing the very same behaviors that their spouse has been seeing in the marriage, but now it's directed at me. You know, so when they're busted like that, I just I contemplate do I really want to, you know, work with somebody that probably can't is not gonna change, not gonna get better, and abuses me. No, the answer is no. Yeah. I was wondering if you ever fired any of your clients.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

I well, I have fired clients, but um never uh, you know, for those, for those reasons in like the divorce cases or whatever. So it's generally just if uh, you know, if a client just has uh crazy, it's normally in the real estate side of it when they have just crazy expectations and you know they just don't understand why they can't have their multimillion dollar house for, you know,$250,000 and they're just running me around ragged, you know, looking at places and then not able to afford it. And so yeah. Um, but yeah, I haven't ever run into your, you know, a situation like you. Thank God. Uh I've been subpoenaed to go to court, um, you know, to just show like my story um of you know the events that have happened between the you know the couples.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

But um well, I guess the point of me even mentioning it was we can make great progress and even maybe turn your marriage around when it's on the brink. If I have two reasonable people, I need two reasonable people. If one of you is unreasonable, you're probably not gonna be helped by anyone. Yeah. So you can say marriage therapy or marriage crisis intervention did not work, but the truth is you were incapable of following the coaching, you know, and a wise counsel that you were given and just wanted to do things your way. Yeah. So yeah, so if you're married, if you're unhappily married out there and you think your spouse is reasonable, then please go to marriage therapy. Please do this, you know. See if you can fit uh turn it around if you have, especially if you have kids.

Resources, Links, And Farewell

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Well, thank you so much for coming on again today. I really appreciate it. I love that you shared um, you know, the the blog that's gone viral. So I'll definitely make sure that we have a link uh in the show notes for that and a link to your book, um, and a link for a way for you know people to uh get in touch with you, you know, because I'm sure any you know people listening are like, oh my gosh, like I need her. Um if you're thinking that you do need her in your life, she's great.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Well, I appreciate it so much. Thank you, and hi everybody. Check me out, marriage crisis manager.com.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

I love it. Yep, I will have that link in the show notes. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce.