The Co-Parenting Conversation Code

Co-parenting can turn normal life logistics into a constant stress test, especially when your ex’s voice alone puts you on defense. We sit down with repeat guest Teresa Luse to share a practical, repeatable way to start and steer co-parenting conversations so they have a real chance of going well. If you feel stuck in high-conflict co-parenting, dreading texts, or replaying arguments from the marriage, this is a calmer path forward that still protects your boundaries.

Teresa walks us through her four-step method for launching a difficult conversation: get your mindset straight, acknowledge and empathize, state your desire, and ask for help. We talk about why “empathy” is not agreement, how a simple acknowledgment can lower someone’s guard, and why you should name the outcome you want instead of dictating the other parent’s process. You’ll hear concrete examples like turning “bedtime” battles into a shared goal such as “eight hours of sleep,” plus why specificity matters when you’re building a workable co-parenting plan.

We also cover what to do when the other parent says no, how to keep the conversation moving with better questions, and how to exchange information without escalating. Teresa shares where to find her book Combative to Collaborative: The Co-Parenting Code, her newsletter, and her resources for parents who want a more collaborative approach or need parallel parenting structure. If this helps, subscribe, share it with someone navigating divorce and co-parenting, and leave a quick review so more parents can find it.

To find out more, find all her resources and to connect with Teresa:

https://teresaluse.com/

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce. This week I have Teresa Luce on. And if you've been listening, you know that she is a repeat person on the podcast. I'm super excited to have her on, though, because she deals with probably one of the hardest things that comes with divorce, which is co-parenting. I mean, obviously, we all, you know, are mourning the loss of the marriage that, you know, we thought we were gonna have forever and all of that. And that's hard enough. And then you throw in having to co-parent. And sometimes that is the hardest part of divorce. So I love that Teresa has taken this on as kind of her mission. And uh she has a book. It's called Combative to Collaborative, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yes, okay. Combative to collaborative, the co-parenting code.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

The co-parenting code. I love it. So yeah. So Teresa, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Well, thanks for having me back, Sarah. I have to say, when you said I was a repeat and then you paused, I was like,

Why Co-Parenting Feels So Hard

SPEAKER_00 1:07

what is she gonna say next? Repeat offender.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I know. Like for some reason, like it's paramenopause. Like my brain sometimes, like I want to say something and then something else comes out. So I was just like, okay, pause and and just say, you know, a repeat. It should have just been repeat guest. I apologize.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

You don't need to apologize. It just gave me a moment of humor.

unknown 1:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

We don't need that.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

I love it. Hopefully it made everybody else laugh too.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Excellent. Well, thank you again for coming on. And I know uh you sent out a very, very amazing and informative newsletter. And, you know, there was one that you sent out where you were talking about some resources and you know, some things to really help people with co-parenting. So I'd love for you to just kind of jump in and tell us what are the resources, what are your tips and tricks for, you know, creating a good co-parenting relationship?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Well, there's a lot to cover there when you say resources. But what you were specifically referring to, because we talked about this off camera before we went on, was my four-step method for launching a difficult conversation with a co-parent. And even not necessarily a difficult conversation, but just any conversation you may not be wanting to, you may not be enthusiastic to have with them, which may be every conversation you have with them, depending on your relationship. So I really came to this by way of developing it myself when I was in the early days of my co-parenting relationship and trying to figure out how I can communicate with this person who I really wasn't very successful in communicating with effectively when we were together. And now I really want to get past that so that we can have a different relationship as co-parents and be effective. And so, you know, over the course of time, I really kind of came up with what I realized was four basic steps that I was repeating over and over again in these conversations. And frankly, they

The Four-Step Conversation Framework

SPEAKER_00 3:07

actually transfer to all of your relationships, not just your co-parenting relationship, but any relationship where, you know, it's not one of those that just feels organic, feels natural, feels like you click with that person. And that could be a coworker or another family member or just someone that you encounter through maybe a service call or something like that. So the four steps really kind of lay the foundation for launching that conversation and putting it in a position where you have an opportunity for it to be successful. They're not the complete conversation, but the elements, then specifically, if you break down each step, you can kind of utilize them repeatedly throughout a conversation to wield greater success overall, too. So they work together and then they work kind of separate from one another as elements to the rest of the conversation, if that makes sense. Yeah. So you you want me to talk about the four steps?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, I would love that. Because I think that is such good information. And like you said, you know, even if it's not a difficult conversation, maybe it's just even having a conversation. Because I know a lot of times with you know, your ex-spouse, like sometimes when they talk, it sounds like nails on a chalkboard. And so it just automatically like puts you on defense and automatically makes every conversation seem like this huge deal. So I love that you're, you know, able to kind of create something that can help people to get past that and have the conversations because ultimately the goal is to make this good for the children. You know, the kid, the kids are the what need to be at the focal point. And so if you can get past, you know, having those conversations and just have the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Well, it's and you know what, yeah, and and good for yourself too. So you don't have to have all this anxiety. I've always been one if I have a formula, I can do the formula. Like, give me a formula and I can put it into practice. If it's a winning formula, then just wash, rinse, repeat. And so that's kind of how I came up with the idea of let's put this into four steps and and then let's test it, see, you know, is it is it repeatable? Does it work, you know, overall? And then beyond that, like I said, I realized that elements of it can be broken out and used, you know, throughout the conversation, then to kind of come back to, you know, certain places that make sense. So the first step is to, before you ever start the conversation, is to get your mindset straight and make sure you're focused on what's important, you know. And and when I say focus on what's important, you know, of course there's the children, but also why are you having this conversation? Is it a conversation you should even have? Is it important enough that you need to have this encounter? And if not, then you know, don't have it. But focus on what's important in terms of the relationship you have with this person too, not just the the conversation you're about to have, but what is the the content, the the message that needs to be conveyed, that needs to be discussed? Are you trying to get to a decision on a particular matter, particular topic? Are you just wanting to share information and have it be successfully received on the other

Step One Get Your Mindset Right

SPEAKER_00 6:42

side? What's important about that relationship then, in terms of, well, if you know, if this how what kind of role does this person play in my life that I need to make sure that this is a successful encounter? Even if you've decided to separate from your co-parent, they still play a pivotal role in your life. So keeping that in the most positive light possible is beneficial to you. So that's really the focus on what's important.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

You know, I feel like I was just gonna say, I feel like with part of that too, with getting your mindset right, a lot of times what I have to, you know, remind, you know, my clients as they're like going through this is nothing about divorce is fair. So don't try and make it fair. Right. Like nothing about the co-parenting relationship is gonna be like quote unquote fair. Like you're always gonna be missing out on something. Like, so instead of being, you know, looking at it like, woe is me, look, you know, instead of looking at what you're losing out on, look at what you are getting. And then, you know, put yourself in the positive mindset of like, okay, you know, this isn't gonna be a, this isn't me trying to make everything fair. This isn't me trying to like get one up on him or hurt, you know, this is just me like being able to have this conversation. And, you know, really just, you know, a lot of times what like what I'll recommend is just, you know, remember it's not fair, and then also like take a minute to take some deep breaths, meditate, whatever it is that helps you get kind of grounded so that you can have that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah, yeah. The deep breaths before just kind of decompress before you go into something like this. But it it is important to remember that you you decided to separate because you were looking to improve your life. So don't think that now that you've made that decision that your your fate is to be unhappy. I mean, that's not why you did this. You did this to allow for more happiness to ensue. So, I mean, there's lots of positives that come with parents that separate. One is that that reduction in the ongoing daily interaction and the conflict that comes with that. Maybe it's the lessons you're teaching your child and how to communicate with each other and with a loved one that you wanted them to have better lessons and better role models than the two of you together in the same home could provide. Those are all positives. So that's important. That's part of what's important, you know. So, anyway, so that's focus on what's important and why preserving the relationship is important as well. Then once you've got your mindset kind of in the right place, you're ready to think about how to launch this conversation. And look, you can plan these out. At first, it may sound contrived, it may sound corny, whatever, but it's a formula. So kind of play it out in your mind and try it on, see how it works for you, do it in a mirror, whatever, and kind of lay it out. The more you do it though, the more it becomes just natural, and naturally the way you're going to approach those interactions with the co-parent or the other person that you may be having difficult times communicating with. So the second step is acknowledge and empathize. So before you go into, I need you to do this, or I want this, or we need to make this decision, start off by building rapport. That's something they teach you in business school, in business in general. You know, before you go give somebody bad news or good news, you build some rapport with them. You don't go into an interview and just start right into, you know, usually answering questions. They usually try to kind of build that rapport with you. Well, this is similar, but it's a little more targeted. So in this case, you know this person, and that knowledge is powerful to you. You can use it for good or bad, but I recommend you use it for good here because you know something about this person that you can use to bring them into the conversation with you and allow them to reduce, you know, let down their guard a little bit. Because when somebody comes straight at

Step Two Acknowledge And Empathize

SPEAKER_00 11:19

you, just what I need you to do this, what's the first thing you want to do? Whoa, throw up your hands and kind of push back. And you don't want them to do that because you want your message to be received. Doesn't matter whether you like them or not, you still want your message to be received. So let's position your message to be received. So acknowledge and empathize with the other person. Acknowledgments a simple, hey, I really appreciate how you helped our son with this homework the other day. It got him in good place. So he did really good on his quiz the next morning, you know, or anything at all you can grasp at to acknowledge something positive that your co-parent brings to the table either recently or in a general sense. I have a co-parenting class that I teach for a nonprofit. It's called Parents Parenting Separately, and it's a lot of high conflict parents. Um, many of them are ordered to take the class, and I challenge them to tell me something good about their co-parent. And this is sometimes really difficult for them, especially in their cases because they're in the throes of a lot of you know adversarial situations with this person. But the point of it is you have to start by seeing the potential in the relationship. We're not trying to reconcile with them from a you know intimate standpoint, but we just want to be able to look at them and not recoil every time. And we have to see the potential that that lies within them. Sometimes that may mean at one point you are attracted to this person. At one point you wanted to be with this person. If you need to go back 20 years to find that moment that you can reflect on, that may be the place where you need to go. Now it'd be hard to put that into the acknowledgement. Gee, you know, 20 years ago when you were really nice to me, I really appreciated that. You're not going to do that here. But there's there's kind of two things I'm talking about at once. There's the get it, it goes back to the get your mind straight, reflect on something positive that this person does bring to the table. Maybe they're terrible to you, but they're a good parent overall. Maybe they take care of an of an elder parent and you respect that. Or they're a really solid worker, you know. So those things will help you to see this person as something other than, you know, someone you don't want to interact with. And then, you know, thinking more locally about the matter, the acknowledgement is like I said, picking something up, it can be very basic. Maybe it's just, I appreciate you taking time to talk to me. Maybe that's all there is that you need to say. But it's showing that appreciation. And maybe you think they shouldn't do it anyway, but still say it. Just say it. It's not gonna hurt you. Um, because it is it is more magical than than people realize to say the word appreciate to someone else. Everyone likes to be appreciated, everyone likes to be acknowledged. And a lot of times many people feel like they get over, you know, they get overlooked for appreciation. And so when you can do that for someone, it lets that guard drop. And then the message can get through to them, whatever you're about to say next. The other side of that acknowledgement was empathize. Maybe you know this person's going through something. Maybe they're just going through the same thing you are. Co-parenting is difficult, it's not fair. Okay. And you know how they feel about that. You feel it. So you can say, you know, I appreciate this is difficult for you. It really is not easy for me either. And that's just saying, I'm gonna meet you where you're at. The other thing I like to say when it comes to empathizing is you don't have to agree with whatever you're empathizing with. You don't have to agree that they're right in whatever matter you're empathizing with them on. Like if they want to have the child, you know, all the time and don't want to split parenting with you, you don't have to, you know, by empathizing, you're not saying I agree with you. You're just saying, I hear you. So I understand you would love to have our son with you all the time. I appreciate that that that is something you would want. And it says, I heard you. It doesn't say I agree with you, it just says I'm listening. And so when you give someone the gift of listening, they're more likely to reciprocate it. They may not always, and some people never will, but these are your opportunities to try to motivate the other person to receive your message and to reciprocate with similar behavior. So that's step two. So so far you've got focus on what's important and acknowledge and empathize with the person you're interacting with. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

I love on the acknowledge and empathize that you said it doesn't necessarily, you know, have to be like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for, you know, like making sure they brush their teeth or whatever. Like, you know, like because I'm certain you've had, because I've had the same thing where, you know, I'm certain you've had clients that are like, I can't think of one nice thing to say. And it's like, well, I get that. And and I'm not asking you to like fall back in love. I just think of your kids, come up with one thing they did, like, you know, yeah. And I love that you said it can just be as simple as, you know, just like, I I hear, you know, I see you, I hear you were in this together, you know, or just like I appreciate that we're both, you know, struggling through this. Like whatever it is, like I like that. And and I'm glad that you said that because I I'm certain you've had people that were like, I can't think of one nice thing to say. And it's like, come on, everyone can think of something nice to say.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, a long time ago when a friend of mine told me he was getting divorced, and I said, I'm sorry, sorry to hear that. And he said, Don't be sorry. We had lots of great times together. We had many good chapters. This one's bad, and we're not gonna get past it, but I always have those positive memories to take. So he he had a really healthy, you know, attitude about it. And and not everyone's able to do it. But if you can think about what that means to say, you know, why do you have to trash all the positive memories just because it went down the tubes? That doesn't mean the positive didn't happen. It just means that you outgrew it, you evolved in different paths, whatever the case, maybe they changed and they became a different person from who they were, but they were that person at one point. So it doesn't, their current, their current, you know, the the person they are now doesn't negate who they were when you did like them. So if that's the anchor for you to come back to you to be able to interact with them and try to have a more positive mindset coming in, then do that for yourself. You're doing it for you, not for them. Yeah, I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

What's the next step?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Okay, step three, state your desire.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Boy, that sounds very business like it does sound very business like, but it, I mean, it's true though. Like instead of just, you know, like fiddle farting around and you know, just kind of like sidestepping what you wanted to say, like just state what you need.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Well, I'm known for being a little direct, okay? So, but a lot of my success, both business-wise and personally, is because I say what I want. A lot of people are are vague or dance around it, and then the other person is confused, they don't really know what it is you're wanting them to do, and you know, expecting them to figure it out is really not fair because do you want to do that? So, you know, and think of these steps as building on each other too when I'm talking about launching the conversation. And so your mindset, getting focused on what's important, acknowledge and empathize. And now, you know,

Step Three State The Outcome

SPEAKER_00 20:11

you you can hesitate between acknowledge and empathize and state your desire, but you have to be very careful that the other person doesn't derail you and take you off topic. So, you know, you can either, I really appreciate meeting with me today, and then go straight into. If if you really have more of a parallel parenting sort of relationship where you're more or less not communicating with each other except when absolutely necessary, that may be the go-to for you. If you have a a little more interaction with this person than a parallel parenting relationship calls for, something that's a little more collaborative, then you can pause and allow them to respond to what you said. If they start taking it down another path, then I can certainly teach you methods for bringing it back on course. But hopefully they'll just say, Well, you're welcome, and I appreciate you mentioning that. And then we can, you know, then they'll stop and you can go right back to state your desire. Be very explicit on what you want. And you know, here's where you tell them really the outcome you're seeking, not how to get the outcome. There's a difference there. Not, I want Joey to go to bed earlier. It's I want Joey to get more sleep. Okay. Because when you start dictating how the other person needs to get to the end game, you're you're placing demands on them, and and again, they're gonna throw back up their arms and push you back. Uh, no one likes to be told what to do. And I always have told people that parenting is a very territorial sport. We all think we're doing it the best in our particular home. And we don't want somebody else intruding on how we do it. And when once your households are split, that becomes very apparent, right? This is my territory, and I'll do it my way. So you have to be careful to position the messaging and what you want as the outcome, not the how we're gonna get there. Because otherwise you're gonna come across as dictating to them. And that is going to cause them to pull back from the conversation. So, you know, just being very specific. Like I said, the example I just used, I would like Joey to get eight hours of sleep per night. I mean, I was always taught in business in some of my roles, you know, be specific so that it is clear what the end game is. More sleep is a little too vague. So it would be helpful if you could be more specific so they understand the difference between where we're at now and where you want them to be, right? Because if you say I want them to get more sleep, well, they are getting a lot of sleep. It's all really nebulous. It doesn't mean anything. Okay, great. Uh where do we go from here? Let's be specific. And you know, if there's a date like that you can wrap around this, I'd like Joey to start getting eight hours of sleep, preferably beginning next week. Now it might start to get a little too controlling if you go too much deeper than that. But once you stop with your specific ask, then you invite them into the conversation with you to help you problem solve. And this is so important. You might just want them to say, okay, I'll do that, whatever you just said. But if you ask them to help solve the problem, then they're going to be more invested in the solution. And they're going to feel like it's theirs, they're part of the solution, and they'll want to stick to it. So you do want to bring them back in. And so after you've said, I would like Joey to start getting eight hours of sleep, you know, within the next two weeks. I'm just making this up off the top of my head. Okay. Can I get your help with how we can get that to happen? You know, and that asking for help invites them back in and says, Oh, she respects me. She wants me to be part of the solution. She realizes I am a good parent. And so that way you are kind of acknowledging them without an acknowledgement explicitly by saying you want their help. And even for the person that you're not sure they are doing the best at parenting, if you give a person the opportunity, they may, you know, redeem themselves. So, you know, people that don't get to practice because you don't think they're good at something don't get any better. I always talk about when I was very briefly involved in co-ed soccer, or not soccer, softball. I'm not a good team sports person, really. Anyway, I did decide to play this one season. And of course, because I had never played, they put me in right field. Well, who gets the least practice at doing anything on the entire team? Right field. There's hardly anything that ever goes there during a game. You might get one ball hit your direction, maybe two if you're lucky, uh, the whole game. So, because of that, unless you take a lot of extra practice outside of games, you don't get any better. You just stay bad or not very good, at least. So, you know, this the idea that I don't want to ask for their help because they suck at parenting. Well, you're not really helping yourself. You need to give them opportunities to do it successfully. So that's kind of the idea of asking for their help. So that's step four. So you got focus on what's important, get your mind in the right place, get to a positive, hopeful mindset, and then move forward with the conversation by starting with an acknowledgement or empathetic statement toward the other person. Then state what it is you want as an outcome, not as how to get there, and ask for their help in implementing the solution. And that's for solving the problem, really, not implementing the solution. So that's really it. That's the four simple steps.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Yeah. I love that. And I think that it's it's so helpful, you know, because again, like you just have to separate, you know, just like it's not fair. You also have to separate that, like, yeah, okay, they may have been a really shitty husband, you know, or wife, whatever, you know, but they obviously like cared about you at some point to be able to make a child together. And, you know, so they, you know, have to have some redeeming quality that you can,

Step Four Ask For Help

SPEAKER_01 27:15

you know, and hopefully, I know not it's not always, you know, the case. There are those exceptions where, you know, the the person is just clearly a really, really shitty parent. And you know, and that would be a totally different conversation. But for the ones that, you know, are good parents that do want to, you know, take care of their child, they do want to be involved, they just didn't want to be involved in the same house as you. That's okay. It's okay. Like, and so I love that you've created this. And, you know, and I know that you ended up creating a very healthy co-parenting relationship, you know, with your ex-husband and with your, you know, your son. And, you know, because you you followed this method, and I love it.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

And and, you know, we were not good communicators together in the same house. I mean, so I was like, how on earth am I gonna do this now? You know, and I had to find ways that that we could serve our child by communicating effectively. And, you know, it worked out because otherwise, if we would have kept going down the same, you know, high conflict interaction every time we we spoke to each other, it it wouldn't have gone that way. Our son wouldn't be able to say, I had a great childhood. And who knows how things might have gone. You know, and and when we're talking about these four steps, the last one that we talked about was ask for their help. What if they say no? What if they say no? Well, actually, that's not such a bad thing. It that sounds crazy, right? But what I mean by that is they've given you feedback. Okay, now you have somewhere to go. Can you help me understand why? There's always somewhere to go. Did I ever tell you I was a bill collector? No. Yeah, some of these very refined techniques for using words are are based on what I learned to do collection for credit card bills. Wow. And the specific wording is very important. So, you know, when a person's and the other thing that's important is to keep the conversation moving forward. And I know that, you know, there may be a lot of hesitation in doing that. Oh, I don't want to keep the conversation moving forward. I hate this conversation, you know, and all these things. I just want to get off the phone

What To Do When They Say No

SPEAKER_00 29:50

or I just want to get out of this. But you got to get to the other side of that to solve a problem. So, you know, it's like if they say no, then you have a great opportunity to come back with a can you help me understand why? Tell me how you might want to do it, and then you can move it forward. You know, it if they tell you why, in that, no, I'm not gonna do that. I think he gets enough sleep, then you can take it to the next step. I understand that you feel he gets enough sleep. What I'm seeing at my house when he ends up with less sleep the night before is he's very irritable and he has difficulty focusing in in his classes, according to his teachers, and providing more information. The point is to exchange more information, the more inputs you have to the formula, the more likely it will come out with a successful solution that works. So it's okay to go back and forth in a you know calm and and open open manner like that. Yeah. So anyway.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah. I love it. I love it. And I think you did such a great job at you know, articulating and taking all the different things that you've learned along the way and creating this formula and then you know, creating a book and you know, a newsletter and classes and you know, just all the things. So I I love what you've done.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

I appreciate it. Absolutely. So if somebody listening today was like, man, I need to get a copy of her book. I want to be on that newsletter email. I need to be in her co-parenting classes. How would they do that? Do they just go to your website? Where do they get their book? Your book. Obviously, I'm gonna have all the links in the show notes, but to just tell them that would be great.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Yeah, well, I'm everywhere. No. No, I have a website, teresa loose.com. You can also find me at coparent-coach.com if that's easier, because Teresa can be spelled lots of different ways. And I think I've tried to cover all the domains, but I probably have one that'll slip through. So, you know, Teresa T-E-R-E-S-A, Luce L-U-S-E dot com. The book is available on Amazon, and frankly, it's cheaper there than I can offer it to you. But if you want to pay more and have me sign it, I'll do that through my website. And you can get the book either paperback or you know, Kindle, or if you want to hear me talk for five

Book Newsletter And Where To Start

SPEAKER_00 32:40

more glorious hours, I actually narrated the audiobook.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Awesome. That's a goal of mine is to write a book and then be able to like be the one that reads it so that people listen to my voice on audible. Yeah, yeah. I just think it'd be really fun. Yeah, awesome. Well, I will make sure all those links are in the show notes. And again, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to come on. Uh, I know we've got millions of other things we could talk about. So I know I'll have you back on if you'll if you'll fit it in.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Awesome. I always love talking to you, Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Awesome. Thank you. I love talking to you as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Have a great one.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Thanks, you too. Thanks so much for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on Thrive and Decide The Guide to Divorce.