Spotting The Narcissist Playbook

Someone can be charming, competent, and impressive in public, then quietly run your home like a system built on power and control. That disconnect is why so many people struggle to name what’s happening until they’re already deep in the “spin cycle.” 

We sit down with Jamie Davis of Spin Cycle Coaching to map the narcissist playbook in plain language: idealization and love bombing, the slow creep of control, devaluation that chips away at your confidence, and the moment you realize you cannot stay in the little box they built for you. We also get specific about gaslighting as psychological abuse, including the maddening experience of stating a clear fact and being told you’re wrong anyway, until you start asking yourself, “Is it me?” 

Then we talk about what happens when you finally decide you’re done. Jamie explains discarding, why post-separation abuse can intensify during divorce, and how smear campaigns work to repaint the narcissist as the victim. If you’re trying to co-exist, self-preserve, or plan your exit, you’ll hear practical strategies that lower the temperature: regulating your own emotions, building a pause before reacting, using curiosity as a tool, and choosing words that protect your peace. We also unpack how coaching and therapy can work together as you rebuild boundaries and unlearn people pleasing. 

If this conversation helps you put words to something you’ve lived, subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next, share it with someone who needs clarity, and leave a review to help more people find the show.

To connect with Jamie Davis at Spin Cycle Coaching:

https://www.stopthespincycle.com/coaching

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce. Today we have Jamie Davis of Spin Cycle Coaching. And she's been on here a few times before. So if you're, you know, a repeat listener, you've probably heard her voice. And I'm sure you've gotten a lot of knowledge because she specializes in narcissists and she's a narcissistic coach and helps kind of ungaslight you. And which to me is absolutely fascinating that there's someone out there that does this and she does such a phenomenal job. And unfortunately, I, you know, have a lot of clients that kind of come to me and they have been going through, you know, the marriage with a narcissist. And, you know, they're trying to become ungaslit. So for me, I love that I have a resource in Jamie that I can connect them to. But I also love that, you know, she helps people kind of understand because there are so many different forms of narcissism. It's not just, you know, one size fits all, like, oh, yep, you fit in this box of narcissism. Like there's a lot of, you know, it's a whole spectrum. And so I asked her to come on today to kind of talk about like the narcissist playbook, you know, kind of like strategies of power and control. So kind of the things to, you know, to look out for and, you know, ways to to work through it. So Jamie, thank you so much for coming on today.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Absolutely. I love uh being in conversation with you. Thank you for doing it. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Of course. So I know you've got, you know, your website, spin cycle coaching, and I know that you've got, you know, a couple of different things on there, you know, resources, obviously, and your blogs and things like that. So I'd love for you to kind of just walk us through and, you know, and then just tell us all about the narcissist playbook.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I've heard that time, that term so much, and it really does fit. It's a bit strange because if you encounter what I call a high functioning narcissist, you you start to tell stories to other people who may have been there, and it's uncanny how there's so much similarity. So I don't think they all get together and write a playbook, but I think that you know, the the behaviors and strategies are all very similar. So, yeah, there's normal amounts of narcissism, certainly in a human being, but the higher you go on the spectrum, you get into more clinical narcissism, maybe someone that could even fit a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. But even without having to diagnose, you can very easily observe the patterns and the behaviors. So the reason I named my coaching spin cycle is because when I was seeing

Why Narcissism Follows A Pattern

SPEAKER_01 2:56

a therapist, I mentioned a spin cycle, and she said, that's exactly what it is. And so when you're in a narcissistic relationship, and a lot of times that narcissistic then turns into a whole system, you know, especially if you have children, but you also have extended family, and everyone operates within this system. So a narcissist can be a very charming and lovely person. And a lot of times that's why you're attracted to them. They can be incredibly competent and smart and make a lot of money and have their own business and all those things. It doesn't really speak to the intellectual side of things. What the narcissism speaks to is the need to have a system of control and power. And so when they have friends, they don't set out to develop a system of control and power with those folks. Although they will, the friends will find them fairly controlling. It's really their own system, like their family system, that that's where they want to kind of make this design. And so when you're attracted to somebody, you're usually falling in a state of idealization. That's kind of the first the first point of entry with someone who's highly narcissistic. Other people call it love bombing, but you know, they they really it's it's like throwing the bait out and getting someone to hook on. And so that period can be great, you know, and so you really then fall for this person, and you often will hear people say, I was just swept off my feet. I mean, just the most perfect person. And it's such a mask that they're wearing, and knowing them later on, you you wonder how they can even sustain that for a period of time. But once you're in, then uh it's all about controlling you and your behavior and even the way you look and present yourself. And so things

Idealization And Love Bombing Explained

SPEAKER_01 5:21

might start out small, like I remember hearing, I want you to change your hair. Um I want you to be skinnier, I want you to wear different kinds of clothing. I'm gonna need you to start going to church. So, you know, those are the things that will start. And you know, in all of that, you're kind of like, oh, you know, look, he's really paying attention to me, right? And especially if you are coming from a woman or man coming from an orientation of being the person who has to please everyone. Typically, it's higher empathy folks and sensitive folks that are doing that, but that can also be something that comes from your own childhood that you feel like to keep the peace, you have to kind of please everyone. And that sets you up for the perfect candidate to fall into this system. And then, you know, they a narcissist then might say, Well, I'm gonna start trying to control other things in this relationship. Uh, the big one is financial. Sometimes it can be friendships, sometimes it can be how much you interact with your own family members or what you can't do within your family. For instance, you know, if you have a nephew who's gay and is getting married, the narcissist might be someone who's very religious and says, you can you cannot go to that wedding because it's right. That's just one little example, but that's the way to pull you away from your own family and isolate you. So the power and control is insidious, it's just insidious. It comes very incrementally, it starts to kind of get into every aspect of your life. And until you really realize that there's a problem, you look around and know that this has happened over the course of time. And I I liken it to the frog in the pot of water, where you know, the water keeps getting turned up, but the frog isn't noticing until right before boil, and the frog jumps out to safety. But it's like that water just heating up very slowly. So the love bonding is meant to hook you and keep you in. But then normal things start happening. You start living your lives, right? And then you're noticing that maybe the control he is controlling you more. You don't like some of the things that are happening, you realize you can't really use your voice, or he doesn't respect your opinion. Maybe he does things that's you know really out of your values, like calls people names and bullies them, you'll start to notice the what normal is inside the system, and you won't like it. And when there are times when you start saying, I I I want to talk to you about this behavior, or I need some things to change, that's when you'll start getting the real pushback. And that's when the next phase starts, which is devaluing. And so devaluing is is meant to bring you back in. Sometimes when the devaluing doesn't work, they might try love bombing again to get you back into the cycle, but it's going to come right back around to devaluing because they want their way, they're always right. There's no way they can be wrong. That would that's almost like throwing water on the wicked witch. I mean, you you cannot be wrong, and so there's never self-reflection or accountability. And when you start to realize this, and you you you know that you're dealing with someone that you feel really uncomfortable with, and they're acting really emotionally immaturely. So as long as you stay in the little box you're in and you take all the things that are coming at you

Devaluing And The Control Cycle

SPEAKER_01 9:48

that go against your values and make you uncomfortable, if if you don't just take that, you're gonna have a lot of problems. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Well, no, I was just gonna say, it's, you know, it's interesting to me because I feel like when you're going through that, you know, love bomb into the critiquing and whenever you try to, you know, and then they start like, you know, devaluing you. I feel like every time you go through that cycle, you know, like, because I always say that, you know, a narcissist is just charming enough to keep you. Like, you know, they'll they'll do all the things that make you go, oh, okay, you know, it wasn't that bad. Like, you know, like he still loves me. He didn't mean it that way, you know, all the things that we have to tell ourselves to like, you know, make it seem normal. But then whenever it comes to like the devaluing, you know, I feel like the more you go through that cycle, the more devalued you become and the more you start to believe the the horrible things that they're telling you, like, well, you know, I I couldn't get any better. So I I may as well make this work, or like, oh, it's my fault, you know, I did something wrong. Like it's not, you know, like they they train you in these things, and it's it's so hard to get out of.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

The devaluing is meant to destabilize you. And so the behaviors that they and the str the so that is that that is the the cycle, but the strategies they use are things like gaslighting, emotional blackmail, smearing, manipulation, blame shifting, isolation, those are all the behaviors they exhibit to devalue you and to keep you destabled. Right. So sometimes when you're gaslit, well, not sometimes, gaslighting is a pretty severe form of emotional, I mean psychological abuse, which actually is the best destabilizing technique because you don't know which way is up. You think that you're the one that has started all this, you're the one that's crazy. And I call it living an upside-down world. Like you don't know which way is the right way to stand up. And it's so it's so powerful. The physiology of it really rewires your brain and keeps you so stuck in this cycle because you don't know if what you're feeling is normal or abnormal. And so if you think that what you're feeling is abnormal, then you start to kind of work on yourself. And that's why it's really important to find someone that can validate you because gaslighting removes your ability to self-validate, and and that's on purpose. So destabilizing is why they do that and get you again back under their power and control. And then years can go by, and that's really what happened to me. And all of a sudden, I just couldn't do it anymore. I've been through that cycle, that spin cycle, over and over again. And something happened when I thought I'm I'm done, I'm done. And when that starts happening, they know that it's probably time to get rid of you. Like it's probably time to discard you because you're never coming back in. You know, I heard you've changed, but not for the better, right? So when you hear things like that, they've they've already in their mind thought, this this person's not anyone I can manage anymore. And so discarding is the perfect term for that. And typically they will have found someone else while they're discarding you. And, you know, during that phase, you really can a lot of people have major depressive episodes because of the power of discarding. The depression can your depression can really soar in your anxiety. So, you know, you're trying to hold up this house of cards, and all of a sudden everything falls down.

Discarding And Post-Separation Abuse

SPEAKER_01 14:12

And then you you know that it's time to get out. But that is when you're incredibly weak and the post-abuse, post-separation abuse starts, which is even worse. So you're already really at your lowest, and then this starts because you have a new cycle of trying to uncouple. And this person, you know, you think about it, they like power and control, they're not gonna like divorcing someone and losing things they think are theirs. So it really heats up. But that's why this is a playbook, and the what you're experiencing is real, you know. And when they start to use those behaviors, and smearing really comes during the phase of the post-separation period, because they smear you so that they can be that they can look like the victim of it all. Right. And so that's also very powerful. They have to mitigate what they have done to make it look like it's all you and poor them. And they smear your you with their friends, their family, your own children, just about anyone that will listen. And a lot of people feel really sorry for them. And you know, if you have someone narcissists really hide behind religion because, you know, they want to look like such a godly person. It's so important for them not to do anything that would make them appear less godly. So they really play up how they're the best provider for this person. They've never asked for a divorce, you know, they abused you terribly, but you know, God forbid you use the word divorce, right? Right. But again, it's there's so much manipulation involved. And you can talk to so many people, and all of those elements would exist in their story. So does that help kind of talk about why that playbook is like a cycle and they use those behaviors along the way for different reasons?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yeah. I think that's so interesting, you know, and you're right. Like when you do get to the point of, you know, okay, I'm done, like then, you know, they do what I've seen also is that they just, you know, like you said, they turn everything against you. And, you know, somehow it's your fault. And, you know, I've even seen where you like you give clear, like a clear recount of what happened. And, you know, like it's basically like you're saying, like, the sky is blue, and they're like, no, it's not. No, it's not. Like it doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter if you have all the proof in the world, they still are gonna be like, nope, that is so not right. That's not how that happened, and you're wrong. And then, you know, so like it continues, you know, in that cycle because then that person has been so conditioned, you know, to believe like what they're saying, that then it's so hard that you're like, wait, am I wrong? Is it me? Like, did I create all of this? Like, am I making all this up in my head? Is it really that bad? You know, because ultimately in their playbook, I'm sure they're just trying to get you to come back into the cycle and not end because like if this ends, they then have to start this playbook all over again and you know, start like training a new person to be, you know, their new minion.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Yeah. And, you know, I I don't know if I've pointed this out in the show, but what I really wanted to be clear about gaslighting too, because I think it has two different forms. I think that did have I talked about that before, if not at all. I don't think you have. So gaslighting really the definition to definition is to alter your reality, right? So it is meant to destabilize you. And you know, it is one of their favorite things to do. But I also think gaslighting takes the form of denying your reality because I believe narcissists have such a fixed mindset. So they are always, it's always right or wrong, it's always good or bad, it's always one way, there's no other way. So they can't be wrong because so because they can't be wrong, they tell you that you're wrong. Because if they truly were wrong, that would be catastrophic to them, to their ego. And so they may know the sky is blue, but they just can't be wrong. And so they have to make

Gaslighting And The Fixed Mindset

SPEAKER_01 19:06

it seem like you were the wrong person. You did the wrong thing. Yeah. I find that fascinating because there's you know seven levels of mindset, but folks that have a very fixed mindset usually are so think so in such a narrow way that there's only black or white, there's no gray. And narcissists are can be really smart, but a fixed mindset really tells you something about their intellect. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

What are so when people come to you and they're telling you these stories? And, you know, I obviously everyone's story is unique, but there are, you know, certain themes that come out in everyone's story, you know, especially whenever it comes to a narcissist, you know, like there's there's different ways that you can say, oh, yep, that's that play. Yep, that's that play. So when people come to you, what would be like just, you know, some advice that you would give them while going through this to kind of get through it? Because, you know, I think trying to, you know, how sometimes whenever you're talking with someone, it's better to just agree to disagree. You know, I don't know if like that's, you know, some of the the stuff you would tell someone, but you know, kind of like very similar to that. Like, don't, don't try and rock the boat. Don't try and, you know, like don't try and prove your point because you're never gonna be able to prove your point. It's like talking to a teenager, like they're, you know, you're never gonna get them to actually see your way.

unknown 20:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

I'd love for you to just kind of give some ideas of, you know, like what are some things that you say to people, you know, when they're going through that, like some tips for for people.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah. It always depends on what their goal is. I kind of start there. What's your goal? Right? Is your goal to just self-preserve in this relationship because you want to stay in it for the children or for other reasons? Those are all valid things. Is your goal to get out right now? Is your goal to maybe get out in a couple of years when the kids are older? We what is the goal? And and then we work on what the the best steps are. And I can tell you that the only true unconditional loving relationship is with a child and a parent. There's no unconditional love between marriage partners, not a true unconditional love. And so it is fine to be able to navigate with a teenager who is acting narcissistic and acting emotionally immature. Like we can do that because we're parents and we're helping them grow up. But when you have to do that all the time with a a partner, it's you are losing a lot of energy.

Self-Preservation Tools That Work

SPEAKER_01 21:50

And it really is wearing. So if I just met with a new client and she said, I want to self preserve, I don't want to leave right now. I want to role play. I want to, you know, work on these things. And so then we start working on that. And I will say that again, narcissists love to destabilize you. And they love to see you feel like you're in chaos. And so we want to try not to let them do that. And I focus a lot on how you first have to start regulating your own emotions. And I I work with people to teach them how to put their oxygen mask on so they can do that. Because a narcissist is like coming at you with a, you know, a taser all the time, right? And just shocking you and shocking you. And we we have to keep steady. And so for me, it's developing that pause. So we're not rushing to react. We're putting our oxygen mask on and we are saying something that will keep the temperature down. And when you're trying to self-preserve, you got to give them a few wins. You really do. You got to be able to stroke their ego a bit. Do I like that? Of course not. Am I trying to self-preserve? Yes. Right? So when I say things, I'm not saying it's oh, this you're gonna really like doing this. No, you're not. But you're telling me your goal is to self-preserve. So I think curiosity is always your friend. And what curiosity does, it takes out that immediately bite of you're wrong. I can't believe you know, it takes all that out. And so what you can do is you hear this coming from you know, the narcissist in your life, get a little curious, ask them questions about why they think that, right? Tell me more about what you're saying. How do you feel that it what that does for any human being is make it help makes them feel seen. And since narcissists have such big egos, they love being seen. And so when they're in this period of trying to destabilize you, you're coming along feeling steady, getting curious. And it may delay what the true response is going to be, but that's okay because you'll feel more steady and stable when you're able to respond. So asking questions is a way to kind of bring that temperature down, and it's it's pretty helpful. It's also good to say sometimes, hey, I I'm experiencing some big feelings here, and I need I need to take a break of the conversation, right? I can talk to you about tomorrow, whatever. You'll get pushback. And you just have to say things like, I I have no more words to tell you that I can't talk right now. I really need to take a break. Yeah. You can wear them down in that way, but boy, they'll keep they'll keep on it. That's why I find curiosity can be a really good way to bring things down. What do you think of that, Sarah?

SPEAKER_00 25:26

No, I think that's really good, you know, and I think that I love the fact that you try and meet each person where they're at, you know, because the, you know, it because I try and do the same thing. Like just because somebody tells me that they're contemplating a divorce doesn't mean that I'm gonna be like, absolutely do it. You should totally do it. You know, I like I'm not here to talk anybody into or out of, you know, getting a divorce or, you know, doing any of anything that they don't actually want to do. My job is just to, you know, like my role is just to connect people with the different resources so that they can make an informed decision. Because to me, knowledge is power. And so I love that you have the same approach where you're just like you're meeting people where they're at and you're not just like, oh my gosh, you're never gonna be able to like change them. You're never gonna be able to get through this. Why would you want to like preserve? Why would you want to stay there? You know, instead it's like, okay, totally get it. Like if that's your goal, you know, then absolutely let's figure out how to preserve, you know, yourself, your sanity, preserve, you know, the the children and their relationship with, you know, with this, the narcissist and with you. You know, so I I love that you you do that approach. And, you know, I agree. I think curiosity is, you know, the way to go. I think also even if you're not dealing with the narcissist, I think taking that pause is always crucial. You know, like I do that in my in my current relationship, you know, with my husband. Like if we're having a discussion and and I can feel myself getting angry or getting triggered or whatever, I'm always like, I'm gonna need to walk away for just a second. Like I'm gonna need a minute, you know, because I don't want to say something that I can't take back, you know, because we've all heard the phrase, you know, words are like toothpaste. Once it's out of the tube, it's not going back in. You know, once those words are out, you can't take them back and have them, even if you say you're sorry, they still have been put out there, they've still made that scar. So, you know, I think it's the same type of thing though in a narcissistic relationship, you know, you should just take that pause so that, you know, you're not saying something that's gonna trigger them more to make it even worse on you, but also so that you can, you know, choose your words so that, you know, you know at the end of the day you weren't the asshole. You were the one that just self-preserved. And, you know, regardless of whether that narcissist, you know, said you're the asshole or not, like at least you can know that you weren't.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

When you've heard them, you've heard the term energy vampire, right? You turn heard the term, and so what they want your energy, they want your chaotic energy, they want you to be angry, they love it. I it's so weird, but they do. And so you're not giving that to them.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

And you know, that also causes another, you know, it's there's always a cause and effect. But I also will say, I love coaching because coaching isn't advice. What I'll say to folks, if you want advice, you need to tell me, and I'll take my coaching hat off. So, what I'm what I like to start with is let's find out what your goal is. You might not know, but let's you know, you when you ask a lot of powerful questions and you can hold the thing out there and turn it around with someone, you start to become aware of a lot of things and a lot of deeper feelings. And it's the plan starts to develop, it starts to form. But I I think like I I need someone that I can talk with sometimes, and I need them to be able to hold that and turn it all around and look at it. And therapy is different from coaching in that way, but coaching serves that purpose of well, let's work to determine how you want your life to look and why and how to get there. So it's it's sometimes people don't know what their goal is, they just know that this is the crappiest way to live. And so it's it's a starting point.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah. No, I love that. And again, you know, just starting like where people are. And um, you know, like you said, coaching is different from therapy. And that's where I feel like, you know, it's kind of like a supplement. You know, I like to say that, you know, coaching is like a supplement to your therapist. It's never going to take the place of it, nor is the therapist gonna take the place of a coach. It's just, you know, they're a very good complement to each other and can be a great resource, especially in between therapy sessions, because, you know, I know when I was going to therapy, like I would leave and I would feel so good. And then, you know, a couple of weeks later I'd be like, oh man, I should have said this. And like I want to, I mean, to make sure I say this. And, you know, I would start, I finally started taking notes on my phone of like therapy topics, like, you know, that I wanted to make sure I talked about. But, you know, it would be, it would have been really nice to have also a coach to talk to while going through therapy so that, you know, then I'm not only talking to my, you know, my friends, and that's all we're talking about is this, and you know, like being able to get the things that I, you know, that I need or anybody that's going through it, getting the things that they need to be able to successfully navigate this, especially in a narcissistic relationship. Like, you know, you can talk to your therapist, you can get all the information, you know, all the advice, but then you can talk to a coach that's actually going to help like implement, you know, here's the day-to-day, and especially someone that's lived it makes it so much easier to be like, hey, I've been there.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

It it's it's huge. There are a lot of therapists that don't, they don't learn anything about narcissism in their clinical training. And, you know, I've had the benefit of being with a therapist that really did. She understood narcissistic family systems. But, you know, when I'm in therapy, I'm also doing a lot of work from my family of origin, which is not something that I do with people. I may say, do you see connections there? But that's a then you go into therapy to kind of deal more with your own development. Coaching is more of a way how to move forward. Again, I may make connections to your past so you can see that. But I'll often say, Hey, I, you know, it it you might benefit from EMDR, you know, you might benefit from EMDR because of a lot of your traumatic memories. That's not something I'm obviously trained or certified to do, but coaching is a way to hold it and help you move forward. So yeah, there's a total purpose for both. Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's just such a great, like, you know, just a great like compliment, you know, for lack of a better way of saying it. Like it's just a great like compliment to therapy. It allows people to heal fully, you know, from different ways because, you know, therapy isn't the end all be all, coaching isn't the end all be all, you know, like there's so many different resources out there that like if you do all of it though, it is going to help you to become that whole person that you want to become, you know, the better version of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

It is. And when you start doing that too, I will tell you, you you do have less space to tolerate the toxic relationships. You really do. You you spot them sooner, you aren't willing to jump into that cycle or that game. You know, I I I remember a friend, I used to kind of come kind of coming in our life, and I just realized the cycle of this, you know, anger and silent treatment. And I thought, I can't, I can't do it. Um and so you start to become aware of unhealthier things and make decisions about how do you want to spend your own time. So yeah, I know, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

And and it's one of those things, it's like once you see it, you can't unsee it, you know, once you've gone through like all of the steps and you know, like you, you see it. So now like you can't, you can't unsee it. And I love whenever you, you know, you kind of like work through the the different things

People Pleasing And Healing Forward

SPEAKER_00 33:43

and you get to the point where you're like, yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not putting up with that. And, you know, you mentioned being a people pleaser, you know, being a great candidate for, you know, a narcissist to fall in love with. And, you know, as a recovering people pleaser and a recovering control freak, I totally, you know, I see that. And, you know, after doing a lot of work on myself, you know, I now am able to be like, yeah, no, no. Like I can say no and I cannot feel guilty about it, and I no longer have to subscribe to that. You know, so mine was not necessarily from a narcissistic standpoint. Mine was just more from, you know, that was just how I was raised to be a people pleaser and you know, all of that.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

And to be fair, people pleasing is a form of control. You know, and when you are in a chaotic environments, we are our whole bodies are trained to control for wanting to control to feel safe, emotionally, physically, all of that. Control's not necessarily a bad word, but you have to understand that you know that sense of control by people pleasing often it's very unhealthy because it enables all of these really toxic patterns. But you can, if you step back and look at it, you can understand why you did it. Like I have a lot of empathy for that, right? Those folks at People Please, because they were really trying to survive in their own families or to get some attention from emotionally unavailable parents. You can you can see how that happens. Um that's why we all have to kind of take a deeper look at ourselves and make connections to all the things in our life. And that's why I love coaching. It's like you can do that and turn it all around and take a look at it, better examine it.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Yeah. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to come on here and talk about this. I think this was, you know, is such a great topic, you know, talking about the different things. And, you know, I'm sure that people listening have definitely had their eyes opened on a few things. So I will definitely make sure that I have links to your website and everything up there so that people, you know, I know you've got a page on your website that uh, you know, is the playbook. So, you know, if anyone listening was like, man, I really, you know, I loved that, but I want to learn more, you can go to our website and learn more. So I'll have all of those linked in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Great. That's wonderful. Thank you for inviting me. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you. And uh, I know we'll have you on again because, you know, it like you always have the best topics, and uh, I really enjoy doing these with you. So I look forward to doing more. Me too. Thanks, Sarah. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for tuning in. Make sure that you leave a review because that is the greatest compliment that you can give us. A five star review obviously would be very much

Resources, Links, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 36:45

appreciated. And then definitely make sure you're sharing this with anyone that you think could benefit from this information and make sure you're following the show so you never miss another episode. Thanks so much, and we'll see you next time on Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce.