The Amicable Divorce Option

Divorce gets marketed like a fight you have to “win” in court, but that story is often the most expensive one you can buy. We’re joined by Georgia attorney and mediator Tracy Moore Grant, the creator of the Amicable Divorce Network, to explain what an amicable divorce really looks like when the professionals are the ones doing the hard work of staying calm, solution-focused, and fair on billing.

We talk about why most cases settle anyway, and how the wrong mindset from either side can turn simple problems into months of delays and massive legal fees. Tracy shares a concrete example involving health insurance being dropped mid-divorce and how a resolution-driven approach can fix it quickly, versus how a contested approach can drag it out until it’s too late. We also dig into a big misconception: you do not have to be friendly or “get along” to choose a more amicable process.

You’ll also hear a clear comparison of collaborative divorce versus an amicable model, including what happens to confidentiality and why some people end up having to replace their entire team if the case shifts toward court. Finally, we spend time on gray divorce, where retirement, taxes, restricted stock, and home equity decisions can shape the next 20 years, and why specialists like a certified divorce financial analyst and certified divorce lending professional can change the outcome.

If this helps you see a better option, share it with someone who needs it, subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next, and leave us a five-star review to help more women find the support and information they deserve.

To learn more, find a vetted divorce professional in your area and to find links to the books visit:

https://www.amicabledivorcenetwork.com/

Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Tracy Grant

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce. This week I have Tracy Moore Grant, and she is an amazing attorney out of Georgia that created Amicable Divorce Network. And when I first heard about it, I was like so intrigued, you know, because there are so many different ways that people can go through a divorce. And, you know, we're just so used to hearing these horrible knockdown, drag out fights and court and, you know, just the amounts of money that you spend and things like that. So I was very intrigued when I heard about this. So, Tracy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking with us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Thank you for having me and for being a great member and a member of our leadership team in Ohio. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah, absolutely. I know I'm so excited to be an ambassador. But yeah, so I would love for you, because a lot of times, you know, people, again, like I said, they hear that, you know, divorce and they they don't think of anything going not easy, but easier than it could. So I'd love for you to kind of walk us through like what is Amicable Divorce Network?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

It's so much. I could just probably answer that question for 20 minutes. But first and foremost, the Amicable Divorce Network is the only organization in the world that vets divorce professionals. And that is all the professionals. So it's realtors like you, also attorneys, mediators, financial professionals, mental health professionals. Anyone that helps people before, during, and after divorce is invited to apply for membership. And we vet every person for being experienced in their field, engaging in fair billing practices, and having a resolution focus that they are focused on reaching resolutions for parties and not kicking up conflict, cost, and taking it to court.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I love that. I love that. And what kind of stemmed you since you're, you know, the creator and the mastermind behind this? What kind of, you know, like started this whole process for you to create something like this? Because I think it's it's so amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

I kept seeing, I'm also a mediator. And so I see people in the process

What The Network Vets And Why

SPEAKER_01 3:21

either as an attorney or a mediator, and a client would come to me and they would say, and ask very normal questions. They would say, How long is my divorce going to take? How expensive is it going to be? And I couldn't answer those questions. Time and time again, I would be saying, it depends on who your spouse hires. And so I really wanted to find a way to create an ecosystem of settlement for people by saying who is in that ecosystem. And so if we have resolution-focused professionals that are guiding parties towards a resolution, I can answer those questions much easier for people. You know, it'd say at most, it's going to take, you know, four months with your type of issues that you have. We're looking at this price range. And people really appreciate that in a time of such uncertainty. Wanted to control some of those X factors, you know, in the process to really help people.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, I love that. And so I think a lot of times people hear amicable divorce and, you know, they think, oh, well, we all have to get along. And, you know, my spouse and I, you know, or my soon-to-be ex-spouse, like we don't get along. Like it's gonna be, it's gonna be ugly. So do we, you know, do people have to get along to be able to do the amicable divorce?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

No, if that was a requirement, we would have done zero amicable divorces because you're getting a divorce. So often people are at odds with one another. They have hurt feelings. And so that is completely 100% normal. The reality is 95% of divorce cases in the United States never see the inside of a courtroom. They settle outside of court. And so what we are doing is actually vetting all of the professionals in the uh ecosystem for being amicable. They are the amicable ones and they are giving the good advice and they are guiding the process. And that allows the parties to not be so amicable and also though focus their issues on the future and on settlement and getting through this awful time, you know, as easy as child-focused, as cost-efficient as possible. So the parties are not burdened with being amicable. If they are, that's actually incredibly rare. We deal with a lot of complex emotions, issues, you know, high assets, small business, all types of things

Amicable Does Not Mean Friendly

SPEAKER_01 5:41

in the amicable divorce world. And so the parties often have difficult feelings and complicated emotions during this time, and that's 100% fine.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, that's good. Because I know, you know, a lot of times, like I said, people will hear that amicable and they just think that, you know, that means that everyone gets along and it's so easy. And that's, you know, like to your point, it's very rare that that happens.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah, people are getting divorced for a reason. And I guess the fundamental thing I think people going through a divorce simply don't understand. They have this idea that their attorney and their spouse's attorney should fight with one another. And in doing that, they are getting their position heard. They are being vindicated, you know, they're winning something. In reality, if you have two attorneys that behave that way, the cost in your case is probably going to end up being like five to 10 times more than what it needs to be, because they are not solving simple issues. They are not talking together and say, the court's likely to do this. Let's work on a plan, you know, for that. Let's bring in this expert to help us resolve this dispute. When you have two professionals and even more professionals here in this ecosystem that can have a reasonable conversation with one another to work on solutions, it saves people thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars sometimes, months, you know, in process. And so I think there's just this misconception that the attorney's

Why Lawyer Fighting Costs More

SPEAKER_01 7:13

fighting does something good and it does nothing good at all.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah. Well, and that's such a great point because I try and help, you know, whenever I'm working with a woman, you know, I try and help them to understand like this is a business decision. Like you need to look at it like it's just a business meeting when you're meeting with the attorneys. This is not the time to, you know, cry and talk about how unfair it is. You know, I always let people know, like, there's nothing fair about divorce. Like even in a state like, you know, in Ohio, I don't know how it is in Georgia, but in Ohio we have dower rights and everything is split, you know, 50-50. But that's we do not have that. I knew we were one of only a few states that still have that.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

But we still have jury trials for divorce, so that's very different, you know, and people don't think about that, you know, on how your issue could you imagine sitting there and telling all your business to 12 people in your community? I mean, it's wild. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I would not. They're making the decisions about your life. I mean, that to me is just it's crazy enough that somebody would want a stranger judge to do it. But to say, no, I'd like to have this jury trial, that's even, you know, wilder.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's crazy. Well, we do think of a little something different. So yeah. I know. Well, and that's what I love about Amicable Divorce Network is that you are like all across the world. And so, you know, if you're, you know, if you're listening to this and you're in a different state other than Georgia, other than Ohio, you know, you definitely can still use this network. Even if you're, you know, uh in a different country, you can still use this and know that you're still getting, you know, someone that's knowledgeable in your area and knows, you know, is gonna do fair billing practices, it, you know, has been vetted, things like that. Um, but yeah, like I said, I I try and make sure that everyone knows, like, there's nothing fair about it. Take all the emotions out of it and just look at what is going to be best for your future. And that's it. And, you know, even though here in Ohio we have dower rights, it's still not a 50-50. You can't split a house in half. You can't split children in half. Like it's still, you know, you have to look at the really big picture. And that's what I love about Amicable is the attorneys are looking at the big picture. They're still fighting for you, but you know, they're they're not having to like duke it out over who's getting the house.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

It's a chunky girl, it's 500 pages. It also comes in a Kindle version. So if you don't want anybody to know you're reading a divorce book, I pointed out because I actually did a chapter in here on attorney billing, and I took an example that comes up a lot. So let's say somebody, one of the spouses covers the whole family on health insurance and they drop the spouse. This happens often. Sometimes people do it to be mean, sometimes they do it as an accident. They think, oh, I'm getting a divorce, I'm gonna adjust my health insurance policy at open enrollment, and they don't mean anything by it. But in the chapter, I do a side-by-side of how that would be handled in the amicable context. You know, somebody sends an email, you know, sends a letter, makes a phone call, and how that would be handled in like a contested context, compare the time, compare the cost, because I did litigate for many years and I'm very familiar with having to deal with this issue. And I think it's really eye-opening for people to see that if you have two people that know the judge is going to say, put the person back on the health insurance and they can communicate while the open enrollment window is still open,

The Health Insurance Billing Example

SPEAKER_01 10:53

problem solved, easy peasy. You know, you didn't spend very much. If you are in the contested standpoint, four months, thousands of dollars until you get that issue resolved and now you can't get back on the insurance. You know, people just don't, you know, think that out. So I tried to create a real life example to compare and to really show people.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah, I love that. And I love that you have that guide, you know, that again is just helping, you know, helping people to understand like the different, you know, ways that they can, you know, divorce. And I know you and I have talked about this previously, but you know, there's another, another way out there, you know, it's called collaborative divorce. I'd love for you, I know you and I have talked about this, but I would love for you to, you know, kind of talk about what is the difference between, you know, collaborative divorce and amicable divorce.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

So a lot of our professionals do both. It's the same as how I said I'm an attorney and I'm a mediator. I offer different services. So a lot of our professionals have that mindset where they're like wanting to solve things outside of court, which is what collaborative does as well. Collaborative didn't really take off in Georgia. So when I was looking to pivot my practice, it wasn't available to me. And so I met with some of the professionals who I had known had taken the training and met with them, was like, what, you know, what didn't work? What can we correct here? Why didn't this work in Georgia? And so we have a few main differences. The first is that we vet everybody prior for having the correct mindset, for having that amicable mindset, whereas any professional can sign up and take the collaborative training and then they're deemed to be collaborative. So they may not actually have that mindset. They might just, you know, be wanting to diversify their practice. Second is in collaborative, they do have a mandatory team of people that you have to hire for your collaborative team. And it's their idea

Collaborative Divorce Versus Amicable

SPEAKER_01 12:48

that you're gonna get just the best resources from a mental health professional, coach, financial professional, et cetera. And that may work for a lot of people. What I had heard was that particularly the middle class had a lot of trouble paying so many retainers to different professionals at once and would struggle with why do I need this person? We can't afford this. And so we have a much more diverse offering of professionals. We even have, you know, hypnotherapists, we have people who specialize in special needs, children, all sorts of different areas so that we can build a team if you need one and if you can afford it, and who are those professionals so that it's really catered to the person. And the last major distinct change is that in collaborative, they have the idea that everybody talks very freely about the problems in the case to try to move it forward. And therefore, they compromise confidentiality. So you don't have attorney-client privilege, et cetera. And so if the case does need to go to court, somebody has to file, it gets contested, you can't use any of those professionals that you had on your collaborative team. They all have to excuse themselves and you have to start over fresh. With amicable divorce, we don't compromise confidentiality. I actually had a call today with another attorney and she said, I asked my client if I could share this with you. And she said that was perfectly fine if we need to share those types of things. But when you're working with people who are of the same mindset and the clients want that as well, I find you don't need to compromise confidentiality because everybody has the same goal. And so if it gets contested, you have to access the court system for some reason. You can probably keep all of your same professionals and just keep going and not lose any steam. You can, you know, continue to use all the work that you've already done.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah. I love that. And I love that you pointed out all of those things because, you know, I'm not in the legal world. I'm in the divorce world, but not the legal world. And that was kind of my take on it was that, you know, with collaborative, like that's great, you know, that we can all sit down together around a table and solve this. But if it becomes, you know, where one party is not happy with this and wants to take it to court, then you have to start all over again with a different attorney. You can't keep the same attorney, you can't keep the same financial planner, all of that. Whereas with amicable, like you start and you, you know, you you tell your story, you work with your attorney, you try and make it all work, but you know, at the end of the day, even if it does end up in court, you're still keeping that same attorney, you're still keeping the same financial planner, you know, all the things. So again, you're not able, you know, you're not having to start all over again. Like, yeah, no, you just build on it.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

You know, it it actually happens very rarely that people do exit and choose litigation. And I have seen when they do that and they're like, oh, just kidding. And then they come back to Amicable after they get a bill or two and they see what that environment is really like. They're like, oh, I don't want that. I've, you know, I just freaked out for a minute or something. But it really, you know, is such a nice process and so designable for the parties. You know, we deal the process is also completely private. And so it's sort of, uh I tell people it's sort of like that graphic you might see of an iceberg where there's just a tiny little tip that's out of the water, and then under it is this huge iceberg the Titanic might hit. That's sort of what people see in your amicable divorce. So what's filed with the court at the end is the tiny little bit of information that looks like you sang kumbaya and settled it all. Whereas sometimes I spent years on amicable cases that involve very complex assets, special needs children, you know, different things that, you know, we had to wait for over time. The public never saw any of that. Nobody that would have looked at their divorce, including their own children, you know, would have seen all of the work that went into getting that settlement.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah. Which I love that aspect as well, because, you know, like it sucks that you're already gonna have, you know, the the divorce out there in the public record, but you know, nobody needs to know all the details. We don't need to pull the curtain back and show all the skeletons. So yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Especially as people get more

Privacy And Making Divorce Boring

SPEAKER_01 17:04

tech savvy, and and your own children, you know, what do you want them to read about your divorce when they're older and have internet and they're, you know, searching for answers? And what do you want them to be reading about how this went down? You know, probably as little as possible. So choosing a solution like this allows you to really take control of that process and really minimize sort of, so to speak, the drama that's out there for people to read. They would look at your divorce and be like, that's boring, and that's our goal.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yes, boring is the goal. I love that. Well, and I know that you and I have talked about this before, but there is a growing number of women that are over 50 that are, you know, deciding, hey, my kids are grown, you know, and I I don't actually, I don't love my spouse and I was staying for the kids or, you know, whatever reason it is. But we're seeing a lot more divorces that, you know, that I know, you know, it's been termed gray divorce. Yeah. Um, I'd love for you to kind of talk about that and, you know, maybe how Amicable has kind of pivoted to really help that, you know, that group.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, it was very unexpected. We started, you know, this organization 2018, 2019 time frame. And this wasn't as prevalent then as it is now. I think the statistic I saw recently was that women initiate a divorce 60% of the time that rises to 72% of the time when they have a college education. So, first of all, we're seeing female decision makers. And then, second, we are seeing the

Gray Divorce And Smarter Planning

SPEAKER_01 18:40

highest population of people that are divorcing are gray divorce, which in a very insulting way means you're over 50. So these aren't 80-year-olds. It's just, you know, you're just Gen X and above, you know. And so I am seeing that personally throughout my practice, the cases I mediate, the cases in the network, and overwhelming numbers. But what's really different about gray divorce is that they are looking for solutions like amicable divorce for a couple of factors. One is they're facing retirement and they want to preserve money. They don't want to go set their money on fire with some lawyer to get nothing for it. They want to preserve as much funds as possible. They also may have complex assets, restricted stock units. They want to actually really get into the tax effect of the things that they're getting. They have long-term marriages, often adult children are children that will be adults, and they want to both be at the grandchild's birthday party. They want to share in those life events without making it uncomfortable for everybody. So we have really found such a great population in the gray divorce community and helping them with our process. Normally, when they find out about us, that's perfect. That's what I want, that's great. And it's also going to be the subject of our second book, which will be Gray Divorce, your roadmap to resolution, which will come out in the spring of 2027. And we do a lot to train all of our members on how to help these individuals and how their issues are different, including something I'm sure you see all the time, which is an incredible amount of equity in the marital home. And what do you do about that in these situations? And so that's just another little, you know, twist that a lot of families don't have that gray divorce do.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And I love that you guys, you know, that you have capitalized on, you know, that and created that book and, you know, have been able to really just take, you know, real life things that are going on in all of our communities and turning it into, you know, like here's your roadmap. Here's how we help you. You don't have to go through this blindly. You know, and yeah, to your point, there's so much equity. And a lot of times people, you know, there, there may be one or the other of the the parties that really, really want that house. Yeah. And, you know, and so that's another, you know, time whenever I talk with them about like, okay, like what tell me about why you want the house? Like, is it just because of all the memories or because you want to just stick it to him? Is it, you know, like, like, what is it? Because your children, you know, if there's children involved, like, is it their school? Is it, you know, what are some different reasons why? And then, you know, figuring out, like, okay, well, then what does this look like? Do you, you know, like buy out that person with the equity? Do you, you know, assume the mortgage if there's still a mortgage on there or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

We see a lot of women in particular, I find, are willing to say, I'm going to walk away from any of these retirement assets because I'm going to keep the house. And they should always be meeting with first a certified divorce lending professional about their mortgage, which is a professional that exists, and a certified divorce financial analyst, which is another professional that exists, and you can find them all in our directory. But they will, the um financial analysts will really help you weigh out budgeting. And how much money in your pocket are you going to need every month in retirement in five years? And you can't spend the equity in your house, you know. And so sometimes you just really have to be careful and focused on client goals and reality to make the best decisions. And sometimes, unfortunately, yes, they have to step away from that house, but um they get a new house, they start new memories, and now they have money to go on vacation and you know, do some, you know, different things. So it's really, I think, making sure that all of us are handling divorces with care and with knowledge and information, whether it's to help people emotionally, financially, legally, you know, whatever it is, and to do that in an efficient way because it's really conflict in family law that drives up the cost. The more issues that people have, how they resolve them. Is it court? That's the most expensive way to resolve your conflict, and then to hand it over to a stranger. When a lot of times, if you have experienced professionals, they can, you know, just like going into the ER with an emergency, they can triage the situation. They can say, you know, we Need to do this, this, and this, and we know what the law is, and we're going to focus on that solution. Um, it's sort of a game, I think, if your lawyer doesn't know what the resolution is that a judge has to tell them they don't know what they're doing. So that's disappointing to see. I see that sometimes as a mediator where couples are like, we don't know why we're here. We thought we had an uncontested divorce, and they just happen to have hired the wrong people.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Yeah, I know I've seen that before too, and it always makes me so sad. Yeah. Uh, but I love that you brought up the other professionals because that is one of the things that, you know, I work closely with some certified divorce financial planners, you know, divorce analysts, and they're able to really help people, especially women, just kind of see the big picture of it all and see, like, okay, holding on to the house, that's cool. And you've got this much equity. But if you're willing to take that versus this, how is your retirement gonna look? Especially a gray divorce. Like, how is that gonna look? You know, you're ready to retire and you like, don't you want to be able to travel? Or do you want to? I mean, maybe you don't, maybe you just want to be stuck in your house, and you know, that's okay for it.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

We can make that work too. I mean, I have, you know, many divorces I do, the people are already retired. So they will not be regenerating wealth through their annual income bonuses. All of that is over. So we are dividing what you know remains and trying to make it work for both people. And you have to be really careful about how you do that and get the right people involved. And often, you know, people don't understand. Like, if I'm reaching out to the right professional for this help, that's because I'm not the expert. Like, if you look at my diploma on the wall, I got a degree in criminal justice. I did not get a degree in finance. You know, I do not have any real estate credentials. I have no mental health credentials. Well, I do have a minor in psychology, but that does not get me far. So, you know, use the right people, the right vetted people who are looking out for your best interests to really help you with this. And also, I think it's important for people to know that we will remove people from this organization. So we take the vetting very seriously. And if somebody happens to slip through and they, you know, do not have this mindset or their practice changes that they no longer have this mindset, however, it might be, you know, we have a process that we take very seriously. And we will, you know, sorry, you cannot be a member anymore, because creating that ecosystem for the parties going through divorce is just the highest priority for us.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah. I like that. And I I like that you, you know, do that vetting. And I think that's that's huge too, that just because someone got vetted and got in, if they're no longer, you know, practicing properly, then you know, they are removed.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

And I think that's sometimes people change firms, you know. Sometimes they go through an experience and they start doing things differently, no matter what their profession is. You know, they could be an insurance agent, you know, we've unfortunately had to remove one of those, but you know, like things happen, but we do have that safety valve in there. So we always always want people, you know, to be candid with us about their experience, which is usually just so great. Unfortunately, people be like, I, you know, divorce is terrible, but you know, with this process, it ended up being okay. And so that was I lose you.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yeah, I don't know what happened. All of a sudden it just said low network, and and then all of a sudden it just went to a black screen, and I was like, Okay, great.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

It was always just fine for me. I could see you struggling and thinking about something and like what do I do? But it was like you couldn't you couldn't hear me. It was I was gone. I was gone for you, and here I was just fine talking.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Well, it's so funny because at first, like it said low bandwidth, and then I could hear you, but I couldn't see you. And so yeah. But anyways, you know, I love everything about this, which is why I'm so excited. Like you said, you know, I'm the ambassador for Ohio, and you know, I'm really excited about this, and I can't wait to, you know, continue to kind of spread the word about Amicable Divorce Network and you know, getting more attorneys and professionals and things like that vetted through Amicable Divorce and then kind of, you know, teaming up so that here in Ohio, you know, we have people that are able to help, just like, you know, you have uh set up in in Georgia and all the other states, you know, and and countries. So yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

I mean, people need to know that they do have options. People don't understand when you're getting a divorce, you have a choice. What road are you gonna pick? You know, that's why we call it the roadmap to resolution because we are showing you how to get it resolved, you know, and that's what our passion is, you know. But really educate yourself, look at your options and determine which one is best for you. Often that means meeting with definitely more than one lawyer. What's their approach? How did you feel about it? How'd they answer questions? I also have a questionnaire you can take to your consult in the book so you can, you know, ask questions that are meaningful and understand what those, you know, answers are because we really want everybody to get to the best place possible because divorce can be very destructive emotionally, financially against your kids. I mean, it can just be terrible, but we try to make it as as good as we can through a terrible situation. So I hope that people, you know, consider it and look into it as they're weighing their different choices that they have at this time.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yeah, I love it. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for taking time out of your day. I know you've got a lot of stuff going on, especially with like book launches

Choosing Your Road And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 28:30

and you know, just all the things that that you do. So I really appreciate you taking the time out.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Thank you for having me and for delivering this important message to people at this um pivotal time.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And I'll make sure that I have a link in the show notes for Amicable Divorce Network so that way anyone that's listening, no matter where you are, what state, what country, uh, you can click on that, you can find the professionals that have already been vetted that are going to have your best interest in mind. And you can, you know, start the process to see is this the right way for me? You know, because obviously there's so many, uh so many options out there, but you know, I I have a feeling that once someone does this, you're going to realize that it's it's the right way for you.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

So 95% of cases settle. So don't pay for your case to be prepared for court. That isn't gonna happen. You know, so really, you know, look at that and ask the right questions. But, you know, thank you so much for having me and for being such a great leader in Ohio. I look forward to learning about more of the professionals in there and this dower thing. I have never heard of that. So that's new today. Now I gotta go look it up.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

I love it. Yeah. Well, we absolutely can, you know, discuss that offline. I'd be happy to you know tell you what I understand about it. But yeah, and like I said, there's only a few states left that still have that.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

So there's always something, but thank you for spreading the word.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for tuning in this week. And hopefully you gained some really good knowledge because again, knowledge is power, and that is the whole point of doing this podcast is to empower women. So please make sure that if you got something out of this that you leave feedback, a five star review is always very much appreciated. Make sure you're sharing this with anyone that you think could really benefit from this information. And make sure you're following so you never miss another episode. Thanks so much, and we'll see you next time on Thrive and Decide Guide to Divorce.