How to Get Out of Your Own Head with Guest Lisa Webb

One of the many changes Midlife brings - and one that can really take us by surprise - is spending more time on our own.

And this can be not just a shock, but an open invitation for our inner critic to do her worst.

From empty nesting to pivoting and starting our own business, my guest director of Pink Frog Limited Lisa Webb and I explore how spending hours in our own company can result in us heading down rabbit holes of overthinking, procrastination and uncertainty as we create excuses and talk ourselves out of things. 

Lisa explains how we can be busy, capable and holding things together but, while we don't necessarily feel lonely, spending long stretches of time alone - particularly when working for ourselves - can feel surprisingly isolating. 

And Lisa shares how she has discovered surprising and enriching ways of getting out of her own head.

Connect with Lisa

https://www.pink-frog.co.uk/

https://www.pink-frog.co.uk/secondchapter

https://www.instagram.com/pinkfrogdesign/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-webb-pinkfrog/

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm your host, Kate Porter, the Midlife Metamorphosis Coach, and I know what it's like to feel stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in the mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know you are not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and put up with it. You don't have to play it safe. Midlife Unlimited is all about ripping off that mask and telling it how it really is. Nothing is off limits because together there's no limit to what we can achieve. So, welcome to today's episode. Now, one of the many changes midlife can bring, and one that really can take us by surprise, is spending more time on our own. From empty nesting to pivoting and starting our own business, now is a time that we increasingly find ourselves spending hours in our own company. And this cannot just be a shock, but an open invitation for that good old inner critic to do her worst. And mine's called Deirdre, as I've mentioned several times before. So if you're finding yourself spending more and more time down overthinking rabbit holes, then this episode is just for you. Because I'm delighted to be joined by my guest today, Lisa Webb, Director of Pink Frog Limited, to talk about how to get out of your own head. So welcome, Lisa. It is fabulous to have you here. Aw thank you for inviting me, Kate. Now, this we came up with this subject, and we don't just meet we're not talking about going to Ibiza. We're talking about those hours that we can spend on our own. Now, this is something that you're no stranger to because drum roll, please, listeners. The fabulous Lisa has just celebrated, and we don't know quite how, we don't know how this is 26 years of your business. So, firstly, congratulations. But as I say, that means that you're you're no stranger to spending time on your own, which is something that so many of us in midlife are coming to anew. It can be tough, can't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

100%. I think um one of the things about having been in business for such a long time is that uh my business has been all shapes and all sizes. So at one point it was six of us in an office, and now obviously that's not the case. That now it's just me and freelancers or whatever I need. So it's pivoted several times into several different down several different avenues. Although at its core it's always been pink frog. And I think that that's maybe held me in quite good stead for some of those things. But also sometimes it it I think that loneliness or be being by yourself whether you're lonely or not, it does sometimes creep up on you. It it definitely can creep up on you at work, I think, as a lot of us have gone from busy offices to working from home by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Because it is that fine line, isn't it? I mean, when we're not talking necessarily loneliness, although that is a very valid subject. And I think one that I really need to start thinking about doing an episode, particularly focusing on that, put my teeth in. I'm talking more, I think you're with me on this, that kind of being on your own, left to your own devices to a certain extent, which can be fabulous and can, as a creative, we're both creatives here, yeah. We can come up with all sorts of things, or we can talk ourselves out of things, really, can't we?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

I think that's very easy to do. Um, and I think not having somebody next to you to bounce thoughts and ideas with, I think that that can be feel a little um a little bit like you're just going down that rabbit hole a little bit, or you can spend quite a long time thinking about something that maybe doesn't actually matter that much. Uh, I know at my worst, I can spend a lot of time on vintage looking at really nice handbags.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

And I'm not against that, don't get me wrong. Um, but sometimes it's not quite what's net needed on that day. So I think it can be difficult when you don't have somebody to hold you to account or somebody to, like I said, to bounce ideas and thoughts off of. Um, and it can be easy to let that time just kind of fall through your fingers a bit. Um and then that can I think for me, certainly that can definitely lead to beating myself up a little bit about the fact that I have a lot to do. And where's Tuesday gone? Yes. Where's Tuesday gone? And I think the older we get, where's Tuesday gone can really quickly become what happened to the week? And oh my god, how come it's July? And how come it's July, Kate?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

I I know, I know. I mean, it's just like for goodness sake, I say we're we're literally recording this as you're about to celebrate your 26th anniversary. We're coming at the beginning of August, where it's like summer again. How did that happen? Now, obviously, we I know we've started talking about your business in terms of getting out of your own head and working on our own, but I'm delighted later on. We're gonna be talking through insights and lessons learned that apply to all areas of our life. Because as I said, this time of life, I mean, empty nesting, we're we're heading towards September, October time. There's gonna be so many women and men listening that are thinking, yeah, the house is noisy at the moment because we're buying stuff. I mean, you've just finished A levels with your daughter. No, you're no, you haven't just finished it, but you know, you're really feels like it if I'm honest. Yeah, I think, yes, I remember. I mean, Finley, I've said it before, he was a COVID A level, which was very odd, very odd. Um, but yeah, at the moment, your house is almost ultra busy, ultra, ultra, ultra noisy, ultra busy, because everything's like, oh, as you say, exams just finished. Now it's like whether you're going to uni, or everything's changing. But sooner or later, and even if you know, if you're with a partner, things are gonna get quieter, and you will find yourself spending more time on your own sim. You might be going, Thank blinking heck for that. I've been waiting years for this, or you might be thinking, Oh, not sure. And just having a day to yourself sometimes can be overwhelming, can't it?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah, I think so. I think often you haven't made a plan for it.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

And I think that that so so sometimes you don't have things to look forward to, and it kind of just takes you by surprise, even though you know it's coming. And I think that that can be very unnerving to suddenly find yourself feeling like that when you hadn't really uh given yourself time and space to think about, well, okay, so if I do have more time in this way, and I think it can be in lots of ways. You can find yourself just at home more, you can find yourself. I mean, I found myself having caring duties for two family members. I didn't expect that.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Because it was it was quite a transformation is the wrong word, but I mean, like I say, do you mind if we delve a bit into your own concept of metamorphosis? Because there was a really massive shift, wasn't there? That was and it shook up your whole structure, really, didn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:57

It really did. I started by taking on some caring responsibilities for my husband's grandfather, who's one of the most awesome humans I've ever met, and it was an absolute pleasure to do so. Um, and he was he wasn't in terrible health, but he was 91 and just needed us to keep a bit more of an eye on him than than we had ever thought. And then when he died, it led to my daughter having a um a complete mental health crash. And uh she was in year 10, so she was just at the start of a GCSEs, and it uh culminated in her not being in school for year 10 and year 11. Wow. Um and there was very little warning that uh that that's what was coming. She had had a period of time out of school before, but only for a week, and then I think for 10 days at some point. But at no point did I ever imagine that my very smart girl wouldn't be going to school. And um I'm apparently one of quarter of a million uh people who have got kids out of school because there was very little warning, and because I was also at that point being an executor for uh John's will and all of those other things, I just didn't see it coming. I certainly didn't have a plan for it, and I had kind of been struggling with how I fit everything in previously, just having to look after John and run my business and grow my business and all those other things and market my business, all of those other things that you feel like are on you, like oh, haven't been on Instagram for a week, or oh, haven't posted on LinkedIn or all those other things. And suddenly all of that stuff it just kind of came to a stop. And although I say I stepped back from my business, I didn't stop working because you know we didn't stop eating. But I stopped looking for work. So I stopped promoting myself, I stopped being on socials, and I stopped all those things that bring new business through your door.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah. And the whole visibility thing, we're constantly exactly you need to be visible, you need to be seen, you need to be doing this, you need you need to be leading the way, whether that's socially or business-wise. And you need to be consistent, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah, yeah, and that's what we hear all the time. That's what I tell my clients. And then my consistency became being non-visible. So my work came, a little bit of work came through word of mouth and work came through ongoing clients, which I'll be forever thankful for. But things that stopped were things like saying yes to uh a speaking role because I I couldn't guarantee that on that day at that time I would be able to be available. So I've like you said so kindly, run my business a very long time. And it predated my children, predated my marriage. I felt like um it's very much part of your identity.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

And I felt at first very full because I was so busy looking after obviously my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

And powerful emotions involved with bereavement as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

And yeah. It was a lot, and also trying to navigate what you do when your child when that happens to your child, when you've got no experience in it and there's very little help. There's no help. Um, you know, trying to navigate all of that, it it filled every day, 26 hours of every day. It was ridiculous. It's all I I could do and think about. Um but then there's a moment when you just start to think, okay, well, is this it now then? Is this who I am? Is this what I do? And what does that mean for my future? I mean, I'm only in my 50s and only just I was very kind of unsure about whether that meant I would continue to work as a designer or work in branding, or did I now have to go and get a job in Tesco's or as you say, the food the food needs to come in.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

It doesn't matter. I would have imagined as well, these thoughts that you were having were probably in the rare moments of quiet on your own with everything that's going on. And I probably in the early hours or the ear or the morning or late at night, when when there's no one there to bounce the thoughts off. So again, getting into your own head is just you're gonna go not spiraling, but there is there is a chance that you could just be going round in circles and not getting anywhere fast. It's very isolating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

I um I credit Jackson, who is our Irish terrier, with um frequently saving my bacon from uh too much internal thought by uh well honestly by the fact that whatever was going on in our home at that time, every morning I got to walk in for an hour, and every evening I got to walk in for half an hour or 20 minutes or whatever that turned into. And I learned quite quickly, in fact, it was my biggest um takeaway from that first year, which was to take my headphones off and to be present during walking the dog. And I'm very lucky I have a lovely, I sound ridiculous, but I have a lovely cemetery right opposite here. And it's got rid of it, it's got a little, uh it's got some woods in it as well. Oh, it's a couple, yeah. Because you know, I'm in the middle of Peckham, but it is a really lovely calm space. There's loads of birds, there's loads of butterflies, there's a billion squirrels, it turns out, and foxes. Who knew? There are also other people walking their dogs, it's a very friendly, calm place, and I really found myself and another group of people within that that really um helped me through that time. And one of the women I found there has uh two girls who went through a very similar thing to my daughter, and they're a little bit older, and so she was a little bit further along, and she really helped me just by letting me chat and talking to me about things I can and can do, or you know, people I could call or whatever. And her friendship and her help has been huge to me, and it led to us having a kind of ad hoc dog walking group.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

I love the fact you've done this though. I think this is brilliant. I mean, it's taken I've heard about you know walking groups and net walking and that kind of thing, and we're not don't listen, we're not talking about networking here, we're really building bonds because yeah, and you've already so it kind of combines two of the bits of advice or ways of getting out of your head that immediately sprung to mind for me. One is I'm a huge, huge advocate of mindfulness, as you say, bringing yourself into the present with or without your pet pooch or your cat or whatever it is, but just bringing yourself into the moment because then you stop yourself overthinking about what's happened or what might be happening, things out of your control. Secondly, the physical act of movement and changing your circumstances or changing position, getting out into nature, which is a wonderful thing in itself. But I think perhaps the consistency of your little four-legged friend as well, that knowing that he, am I right in the thinking? Yes, that he is there as, as you say, a sounding ball, because a sounding ball doesn't haven't have to necessarily have all the answers, and he probably does, he just can't communicate with you. But it it's that removing yourself from that situation that you're there where there is a dangerous perhaps not the right word, but as you say, of going down that little squirrel hole, rabbit hole, and just yeah, building up to building.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yeah, I also think community is so important, and I think we all know that, but it it can sometimes be very hard to find, and yet there it was literally on my doorstep, and I have a group of women I walk the dog with every evening. They're awesome, they're actually all a little older than me. They make me laugh, honestly. Guttral giggles, as you can it reminds me of being a teenager, it's so funny. Isn't that the best? Absolutely awesome. The ad hoc dog walking group, it was born out of a friend of mine putting me in touch with another lady I I did know a little, but I I didn't know very well. And her daughter, a bit younger than mine, was going through similar things, and she asked, Would you mind if I came in and helped you walk Jackson? And I said, Of course. And we've done that every every few weeks ever since. And she doesn't have a dog as an excuse to go and walk, so I said, Fine, say come with me, come walk Jackson and we can chat. And it was just kind of born out of that, really, that you feel like sometimes you're the only person going through this, and it turns out there's a quarter of a million people feeling like they're the only person struggling with this. And you feel like the help and support is beyond minimal, but the help and support I've had has come from other women's lived experience, and I think that's powerful in so many ways, in so many aspects of my life. It's powerful in my work, it's powerful in my social life, and it's been hugely powerful in my family life. I do credit some of these women with helping me more than anything else has helped in the last four years, and I'll be forever thankful for it. And then it just makes you realise that you that you need and want to pay that forward when you see somebody else struggling at the start of that. And that definitely doesn't mean I've got the answers because I definitely do not but I am good at listening and I am good at saying we went through that, and we're in a better place now. And I think sometimes when you're in those difficult situations, in always, in all kinds of different situations, I think you just want to hear that however small the light is, there is light at the end of that tunnel, and you can continue to move towards it, even if it's a bit of a wiggly route.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

It is, isn't it? It's just someone who's just not not at the end. Where where are we all going? I we never know. I'm I get I get sick and tired of this. Oh, it's about the destination. No, it's about the blinking journey. Yeah, and it's the one I mean to me the the destination is oh, that's it. Um, but it's finding people who are, as you say, don't have all the answers because none of us have, but from just that little bit further down the path to you, so that they can turn around, hold out their hand, and say, Come on, I'm I'm here for you. I'm here to guide you. Watch there's a stone there, or you know, yeah, a wig a wiggly bit might be coming up. I found a bit of a wiggly bit, and this is what helped me. And it's exactly that I think yeah, it's getting out of our head and getting into someone else's, really.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's that shared wisdom, which I think women have always been good at. Like historically, that's a female trait. Um, but sometimes I think, especially when you're working for yourself or you're you've got a family, you've got caring responsibilities, or whatever it is, life is busy. And sometimes it just finding that time becomes so difficult. It is honestly the blessing of having a dog that that just needs to walk every morning. Because whatever, however busy I am, I always walk him. And that's that kind of non-negotiable priority thing, which I find very easy to do for Jackson and I find much harder to do for myself.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Absolutely, because I think when it comes to ourselves, I say it's I'm now talking about not when we're having a lone time thrust upon us, I'm talking about when we're carving it out for ourselves, which is still an opportunity for old Deirdre. I say nothing against the name Deirdre, just it was the name when I thought it's always a good idea to name your inner critic because she's not. Doris. Yeah, Doris and Deirdre, absolutely. And it's just a name, so you can say, Look, Deirdre, I really appreciate it, because all she's trying to do is protect us. She has, in theory, in her own weird little way, our own interests at heart. She's trying to. protect us but she does come out with some strange things and so often she'll say things that we wouldn't abide you know we wouldn't put up with to our worst enemy so self-compassion is you know a big part of it as well isn't it it is yeah I think you're right I think I I mean I think it can sometimes be very good to talk to yourself as if you were your client and I have done that because I feel like the advice you would give yourself if you were your client is very different from Doris quite honestly. Yeah no that's that's a really powerful thing because obviously with a client I'm I'm imagining from from your kind of the creative side of it they might have some wild or wacky ideas and you're like yeah that would work but have you considered doing this or have you considered doing that so kind of breaking it down and thinking there's there's the big explosive idea which is fabulous but the practical steps as well because sometimes that's where we can get lost as well isn't it or that's where my my little magpie tendencies can come in and I'll go yes but if I do this as well and then suddenly it's like you've just made it too big and then you and then you go oh nah that's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

I make my branding clients always do a clarity plan with me which I really like because can you talk us through that because that is a really good tip that we could apply to all areas couldn't it's really true. So it's it what it's for is it's because a lot of the women that I work with they are looking at a second chapter business you know like a lot of us even if you've been in business for a long time things pivot and change like oh I'm a prime example yeah you're exactly almost every woman I talk to is a prime example if I'm honest yeah people who have come out of corporate they've come out of all sorts of places or they've just got to a point in their lives where they've gone well you know what like you were saying before the kids have gone I always wanted to do this thing. Yeah I've spent 30 years looking after everybody else doing all the stuff and I never got to do the thing I wanted to do and I have two two clients that both studied uh to be psychologists in in their 60s. Wow so I love that's what they wanted to do in their 20s and both of them have parents going no I don't think so that's not a job yeah it's not a real job no so they've waited all this time so the clarity plan it helps women I think well it helps anybody really but I think specifically older women look at the skill sets that they have because although they might be starting something new they're not starting from scratch you know they're starting from a place of amazing experiences you know whether that is corporate roles or family roles or usually a mixture of all these things. They have so much to give and they have so much experience that I I think often what they need is a second pair of eyes to look at what's possible and how they can use what they've got and their positioning and I just think you can have a new business without it being a beginner business. And I I think a clarity plan helps you just settle down step back and make sense of what you've already got so that you can have a clear direction. And often the creative then comes from that if you then want me to look at the the creative side of that but I don't think you can do the creative side of it before you have that clarity. So that for me that's really important. And and sometimes people just do the clarity plan and they that's enough they go off sometimes they do that then they come back um but I think having a bit more of a clear direction about the amazing amount of experience you have and how you can use that moving forward I think that's priceless. And women can be so uh conditioned not to invest in themselves. So true it is it's extraordinary I'm myself included I've like you were talking about right at the beginning I've spent all year trying to get out of my head um I have done things all year that are completely out of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

I've been this included I was about to say I've been on the podcast with you Kate popping your podcast journey with me yeah I've been at in-person networking things where I don't know a soul in the room and it has been a long time since that's quite a shake up because I don't know if listeners remember when we had the lovely Hella on earlier this year um she mentioned the the bookie wookie as she called it uh now I always get it wrong I always say Fab Colab is it collab collab collab that's it and obviously Lisa you were part of that as well weren't you I was yeah that was an amazing opportunity that's that's Hella's fault I said yes to that I think um yeah so that was a book we co-wrote I'm saying four years ago maybe something something like that scary isn't it where isn't it see we're doing it now where does it how did that happen how did that how did it feel then walking into a room where you're so used to networking being part of well a very supportive cheerleading I'm all about the cheerleading community 100% but then breaking in it makes you realise how big Hella's reach is so yeah hi Hella thanks Hello yeah it it does make you realise I just I'm a very quiet human being and when I walk into a a networking room I find it difficult I wish I didn't but I it's just me I'm always going to be the same a party isn't it working but it's the same going to a social event going to a wedding where you where you you it's you don't know them well enough to have a plus one but you want to go and it's that walking in and it's 100% goodness me.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

I realized every room I walked into I knew someone because I knew them through Hella and I knew them through being part of Sister Snog and it makes you realise what an amazing job Hella has done at creating her ears are going to be burning aren't they? Unbelievable and but for me what that meant was I would just want to go catch up with that person. Yeah have a little chit chat yeah I'd be very happy to spend I'd be very happy to spend an hour and a half catching up with a couple of people and then going home. And while that's fine and is not terrible networking in any way shape or form I wondered if I was still able to walk into those rooms so that I set myself that as a task to see if I could do it.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

And how did you how did you choose the rooms to go into then breaking into these new these new areas?

SPEAKER_01 29:34

So it's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

So the the first I went into sorry to interrupt but again listeners obviously we're talking about networking which yes I know is businessy but these insights that Lisa's about to share with us will apply also for starting new hobbies going to new groups social groups new you know finding local supper clubs and that kind of thing the local WI I'm trying to get into mine it's fully booked I'm trying to find one locally you should try the one in Dulitch you need big shoulder pads to get in there my darling anyway sorry so how how do you find a room and is it all right to experiment with the rooms because I'm all about if it doesn't feel right you went you tried it you don't have to go back do you know what I think that is probably the biggest key because no one glues your feet to the floor right and I think it's a bit like going to the cinema if you see a really rubbish movie.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

You don't actually have to stay and if you do stay then it's just a rubbish movie it's it's a 90 minutes out of your life. Networking things they don't go on forever you'll be absolutely fine they're lucky to have you I did a bit of research I said yes to something very I I'm quite impulsive when I make a decision to be so I said yes to something that was in the very first week of January and I said yes to it in December and I just thought right okay I'm just gonna do it. Wasn't the hugest outlay I did know the woman running it but I didn't know anybody particularly going. So I thought okay fine let's just do it and come the hour come the day I can't lie I was I felt you know butterflies like first day at school throat coming on yes yes yeah yeah and I'm sure I've got a sore throat nervous sighted I call it nervous sighted I like that um yes I felt a little bit like oh my suit hasn't come back from the cleaners my train's late so deep breath found myself feeling a bit like first day at school I was late and um and like a child I emailed a message to say I'm really sorry I'm going to be late like she cares.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Like there weren't people way later than me who just I'd be like that because you think you don't want them to judge you is it's that fear of I don't want them to think that I'm rude or or disorganized or or or as you say she probably hadn't even noticed.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

No of course she hadn't she was busy yeah laughing and about looking for where the canopies were going coming from um so yeah of course she wasn't worried about me uh but I took a deep breath and I went in and honestly I had a really lovely time I don't know that I made the best use of networking I'm not even sure after all these years that I even really know what that is I met some interesting women I had some nice conversations and then I went home and my world didn't change I didn't had suddenly have people beating down my door for for work or easy yeah but it was really good to connect with people it was really interesting to speak to people who had started new businesses and some who had pivoted quite recently as well their business and I always think that's brave and interesting it's not easy running your own business. So when people are doing it I always think it's uh it's interesting to discover why and how but the walking into new rooms it sounds like a metaphor for something and I'm guessing it kind of is in lots of ways but it's not always the best thing in the world but it's never the worst. No it never warrants the amount of worry you know nobody cares if your nails are painted. No one's worried that you you know you you're wearing those trousers again I think it feels quite um I don't quite know what the word is affirming it it fills you with affirmation or whatever that you absolutely can do these difficult things. And um I had a perfectly lovely time if I'm honest. I wasn't there that long it didn't rain I met some lovely women and I had some good chats and then I came home and it kind of spurred me on to do it again so I went to a different one. Yeah I love that you somebody I did yeah I did I thought and I did it really quickly and you didn't overthink it then so you didn't you you got out of your head and you're like right now that went that went quite well I didn't hate it it was fine and then I thought okay so the next test is one that that I don't know anybody I don't know the person running it somebody had recommended re-recommended it to me it was in London South London and I thought okay well it's not too far it's easy to get to what's the worst that can happen and I was way more anxious I I can't lie but I got there and uh oh I don't think I've ever been made more welcome to a thing in my life it was such a warm space people were lovely a whole bunch of women at very different times in their sort of journey different ages different very yeah I met a woman who had started her business the day before the networking um I met her though absolutely I met a very anxious lady who had started a business selling these beautiful jackets she'd got she'd bought over from India and people liked her jacket so much and she was so local she ran off bought 12 of them back put them on a rail and sold them all at the networking and I thought wow and you're now doing her branding not yet but maybe it was it was very affirming it was it it made you realise it also makes you realise everywhere you go all these rooms there are amazing people doing amazing things and you can be one of them and I think that's that's really nice. It is isolating sometimes running your own business I know especially some of my clients who've come out of corporate backgrounds they've gone from being able to go George bring me that file and uh Julia make me tea um to suddenly oh yeah I better get that file suppose I better put cat on because you're suddenly not just doing the thing you're suddenly in charge of everything else you're in charge of the marketing the sales the admin you're in charge of all the other stuff and it uh it can be very overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

I think when you step into a room where other people share that with you it's very um it makes you feel very much more like you uh have got something that you can do this that you're not alone and I think that feeling whether it's because you've got caring responsibilities or because you work by yourself that you've ended up in your front room a lot I think anything that makes you think actually other people go through this other people are doing this this is completely normal and natural is super important but it's also important to leave your front room whether that is walking the dog or a local networking group um we are social creatures right that is so true and again it applies obviously taking a step further to if we're facing empty nesting now if we're facing a relationship breakdown and we're at that moment now and we're thinking blinking heck I'm about to be living in a house or I'm downsizing to a flat or I don't even know where I'm gonna be at the moment I might even go and live abroad this is going to be the first time since I was 17 or 18 yep and I'm now 50 plus that I'm gonna be living on my own and I'm not really looking forward to it. I'm thinking how am I going to fill my time? How am I going to do this? And as you say by opening that door scary as it might seem and perhaps going online I mean Facebook groups there seems to be a Facebook when I people see keep saying Facebook is dying I don't think so I think it is still a very much a community spirit there and it's a great way of connecting with increasingly I'm seeing like local groups if you find a group that is geographically local to you there is a lot of opportunity or even start it yourself like with the with the dog walking that you're involved in using it as a springboard I did say that I didn't say dogging did I think but that would be hilarious. I mean there's communities for everything I'm sure you can find that too if that's what you're looking for on Facebook Hunley but I say it it is finding that step between rather than just spending all the time online we're not I'm not advocating that I'm using it as a springboard to finding hobbies interests things that and but on the flip side it's perfectly fine to want to spend some quality time with yourself of course as long as yeah as long as you don't end up spiraling into procrastinating talking yourself out of doing things criticising yourself beating yourself up and then going to bed thinking oh God what day is it tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 39:12

I I think as long as you can find positiveness within what you're doing I think then all of those things is are fine.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

I don't mean that we should all just think oh it's all fabulous all the time because I think that's insane quite honestly yeah it ain't going to be it ain't going to be but I do love your your clarity breakdown you're saying and what I will mention as well this isn't the hard plug but very similar I do a hot mess to cool clarity one-to-one session and it is it is that hot I love the title I love that title yeah hot mess to cool clarity and it is literally a brain dump to a certain extent yeah but you know yes you can do these things on your own yes I love the idea because I found it so helpful myself which is why I do it now having someone that I said is that little bit further down the path they haven't got all the answers but they're there to reach out I don't know why I'm doing it I'm sure I'm reaching out no I love that so would you would your would your key takeaway then be reach out through the dog walking etc connection and community I think community community is almost everything you know connecting with people is super important and I I think um and people find it everywhere don't they so some people and I'm never going to understand this they like to go cold water swimming in in a lake or in the sea I mean I cannot tell you how much they're Amanda Fitzgerald our previous guest her episode is actually is actually how to swim not sink and she goes into yeah she talks you know she she loves her cold water swimming yep lots of people love it um my best friend loves it I I'm never gonna get it but fine um the thing is when you do that you're with a whole load of other people who also love that and you find that connection and it's a chance to talk about all sorts of wide ranging things and feel I think that though you're not holding all that in that you're expressing it.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Like I said before the older ladies that I I tend to walk the dog with they're not older really they're like I don't know five eight years further down the line than me maybe ten. Sorry Allison um but they have allowed me to have the space to just basically say oh my god this thing isn't it it is and in doing that has meant so much to me to have that very non-judgmental space to be able to say this is a thing that happened today and I'm not in control of that thing and it's almost unbearable to me in places but it is my reality right now. And I I they didn't give me big hugs or anything but they just allowed me to be able to say some of that stuff out loud. Yeah and once I'd done that it I felt cleared you know whereas before because I'm a super tearful person I can't watch the Olympics without crying when someone does well or someone does badly or when someone's mum is in the crowd and so for me sometimes saying those things it's just so emotional like my emotions are right up here and being able to actually say it meant I was then able to speak normally about other stuff without feeling like that was going to burst out from me at any given opportunity and it meant everything to be honest. Yeah it really did I think meeting people finding those that common ground I don't think I think it makes you feel like everything is possible. And through that group I've ended up with work which I didn't expect in any way shape or form but I was like I've ended up with with courage I think and it's it's often doing that that's led to things like wanting to go into networking rooms where you don't know anybody or just rooms where that felt quite um imposing I also joined a bus a business coaching thing an American thing and it's very American it's very um out of your comfort zone. Oh my goodness I also honestly I feel like I'm everyone's mum I mean I'm um yeah it's very go get y and all of that I'm not really there for the money side of it but I am there for for ways of setting up your business that that give you more freedom and for me as I'm older and as I stepped back into my business I realised that I didn't want it to be the same as it had been before. I wanted it To be, uh, I wanted it to be able to give me more freedom. I wanted to choose who I wanted to work with. I didn't want to do that thing of just saying yes to everything that came through the door. So yeah, being part of that business group has really uh that business coaching has really helped me with a lot of those things, and it is so out of my comfort zone, it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Here's to the next 26 years, is what I say. Here's to the next 26 years. Well, we will be sharing your contact details. So all your contact details are in the show notes for our episode, and you have your guest profile on the Midlife Unlimited podcast website, and I'll be inviting you to share verbally how listeners can connect with you in a moment. But first, you cannot escape the three questions that I ask each of my fabulous guests. So, drum roll, please, if you're still sitting comfortable. The first question What is your midlife anthem? The song or sound or piece of music that when you hear it, you're like, yes. I really struggled with this.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

I like all sorts of different things. So it depends if I'm annoyed and I'm in the kitchen and I just want something loud to shout at. But honestly, my favourite song, I think, is a song called Be Thankful for What You've Got, which is by a guy called William Devaughan. But also there's a cover by Massive Attack, which most people will know. It reminds me of being little, and it was on my dad's favourite mixtape. And it reminds me of being little and being in the back of the car and singing, but at its heart, it has a sentiment for the fact that, you know, quite obviously, you should be thankful for what you have rather than always looking at somebody else's stuff. And you know, I will take that. I do think we spend a lot of time looking over our shoulders at others and not taking time to see how lucky we actually are. I like that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

I'm gonna go, I've not heard it. I'm gonna go and dig that out, and it's a new one for the playlist, which I always love. Right. Well, I'm so excited. I do like a 70s vibe. Oh. Question two, then. Is that is that your midlife mantra? I like a 70s vibe. What is your midlife vibe? Well, it wasn't, but it might be now.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Yeah, absolutely. My my midlife mantra is definitely you can do difficult things. Yeah. Because um, I haven't always felt that, I don't think. I am a at heart quite uh introvert. I am a creative who sits behind their computer, you know. I'm happy with crayons and colouring in. I'm just that kind of person. But even as an introvert, you can do difficult things.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

And you're proving it now.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Well, thank you kindly, madam. Um, but it's true, you know, I think running your own business is a difficult thing, bringing up a family is a difficult thing, working in corporate is a difficult thing. Like we can all do difficult things, and um, it's just important to remind yourself sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Love it. Well, final question then, before we share your contact details, what is the title of your autobiography?

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Struggled with this one even more if I'm honest, but I think it would definitely be well, that wasn't my plan. Ha ha love that. Planning, definitely not my not my best feature, but uh making the best once you're in it. That'd be much better at. But um, yeah, that wasn't my plan. I think that would work quite well.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Well, I think as well, now we we've got this far. Now we're all about being flexible and open to new opportunities and changing things and curiosity. So I think yes, now is a good time to say it wasn't the plan, but let's go anyway. Absolutely.

unknown 47:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Well, I say I've said about the uh show notes, obviously, you've got your guest profile on the website, but can you verbally talk us through how anyone listening can get in touch with you? Of course I can.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

I guess uh well, you can find me on Instagram, of course, Pink Frog. Uh Pink Frog Design, actually. Um you can find me on LinkedIn, Lisa Webb, Pink Frog. You can check out my website, which is pink-frog.co.uk. And if you are starting a second chapter of any kind of thing, and I've got a download that you can use just with some questions that I think help you start to have some clarity on what you can bring with you. So that's pink-frog.co.uk forward slash second chapter. And um that's probably the best way of getting in touch.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Fantastic. And I'll make sure I, if I remember, I will try to remember, I will do that as a separate click uh download as well, so that um anyone on the show notes can instantly get access to that. Amazing. I would love your feedback today on well, on today's episode, even putting my brain in gear. What's your top takeaway for getting out of your own head? Um, it'd be fabulous if you could leave a review, or you can email and text me via the link in the show notes, um, where you can also find the website link with details of my one-to-one coaching offer. Obviously, more my award-winning, all in one coaching program that combines one-to-one with group. But also, I mentioned earlier my uh hot mess to call clarity session. I'm running those all August and into September as well, because it's a great time of year to let's get some clarity. So drop me a DM, get in touch, and we can get that booked in for you as well. Thank you for joining me, Lisa. Thank you for popping your podcast, Cherry with Midlife Unlimited. It's been an absolute joy. I knew it would be. Thank you for listening. Ah, I look forward to you tuning in next week because don't forget Midlife Unlimited has a new episode every Thursday available wherever you listen to your podcasts. So here's to being fabulous and flourishing together and living Midlife Unlimited. Thanks, Lisa. It's been brilliant. Bye. Thank you.