EP 8 | Wine Certs Transcript

Does working in the wine industry sound like a dream? Traveling to vineyards, tasting incredible wines and getting paid to do it. you have no idea where to even begin? maybe you've got friends who flaunt these fancy credentials with letters like WSET , CMS after their names and you're left wondering, what do they actually mean? And do I need one to get ahead in the wine world? On the flip side, maybe you're just a wine lover who thought, passionate about this.

thing? Should I get a certification? But the sheer number of options leaves you completely overwhelmed and uncertain. If any of that sounds familiar, you're in for a treat. Today, we're joined by a top expert who's been there, done that, and has the insight to help you navigate the world of wine certification. So don't go anywhere. This episode could be the key to unlocking your wine career you on a different path in your own wine journey.

Welcome back to this episode where we're going to go deep into the topic of wine certification so you can know what the key platforms are, understand how they differ, and be in a great position to decide for yourself whether or not you want to pursue one, either as an enthusiast or whether you're considering a career in the wine industry. episode one, I shared my passion for wine education with you and explained how I made the decision to my first certification move past my lack of wine knowledge.

And at the time, I didn't really know the differences in the programs. But I did know that Court of Master Sommelier held one of their introductory courses over two-day weekends around the globe, and there was actually a class here in the DFW area. And since I had zero familiarity with all the other programs, I enrolled in CMS, and it was a great course. I learned a ton. But if I had known the differences and what the other programs were like,

I have taken a slightly different path? here today with Jenny Hammer, Executive Director of GuildSom, to explore exactly what these programs are so you can walk away from this episode armed with the information to make your own decision as to whether a certification course is right for you or not. Now, this is super, super fun interview for me I've known Jenny literally her entire life.

from the same small town in Missouri and our families have been lifelong friends. So this is a genuine for me to introduce her and welcome her to the show today.

Kristi Mayfield (02:44)

our audience today, just share a little bit about background and your own personal wine journey, if you would please.

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (02:51)

absolutely, Christy. It's so fun to be on here today. So my background with the industry started years ago, and I got a sales position at a distributor down in Dallas, Texas, where Christy and I crossed paths for little bit at that point. And at the time, I was part of E &J Gallo's sales leadership development program. And that really was understanding the product on the retail side from the store level up.

everything from stocking shelves and building displays, understanding cold box management, but really understanding kind of this selling piece of how are wine placements, whether it's on sale or in retail, how are they important for the business of the actual establishment, but also the consumer and what are they looking for? And that just started to pique my interest to...

more about all of these different brands that I was representing, but also well beyond that. I just started kind of learning on my own, sometimes through the distributor, sometimes through Gallo as well. And so over those 20 some years, did everything from sales to public relations to managing college recruiting programs at one point to recruit engineers and winemakers and salespeople within Gallo.

just a few years ago, actually took on the executive director role at GuildSom, which is an online international membership organization that really is built around a lot of great information, but also a community where people can go and find like-minded enthusiasts or professionals to study, to learn about wine well beyond. So it's been quite a journey and there's always so much more to learn. That's what I keep learning every time I sit for another certification myself.

Kristi Mayfield (04:40)

and that's so funny because as soon as you finish one, the first question everybody asks you is what are you doing next? Right? Exactly. Exactly. Well, getting to the topic of wine certifications, I'd like to kind of focus first on wine enthusiast because you mentioned it and obviously that's kind of where I started. But, know, think many wine enthusiasts feel somewhat by this whole, I'll call it the alphabet soup of wine certifications. You have WCET, you have CMS, you have SWE. I mean, you know, there's

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (04:44)

What's next? Exactly.

Kristi Mayfield (05:08)

There's so many of them. And it's really hard to understand getting a little bit more background information what each of them offers. So can you help our listener? mean, how can someone navigate this confusion and find, which one of the certifications might be aligned with achieving their goals?

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (05:27)

I think it comes down to, I talk about this a lot with that I'm mentoring or otherwise, but what is your why? What is your purpose for wanting to learn more? know that the wine industry and spirits and beverage industry as a whole is just so interesting to learn. There's history, there's science, there's cultural aspects. a delicious beverage, right? sometimes to learn a little bit more about a region.

to help you understand is that a style of wine that I liked, maybe I wanna go visit that place, maybe I wanna capture more of those wines for my cellar or start collecting or take them for Thanksgiving wines or holiday wines. there's a lot of reasons I think why someone would want to learn more about a particular region or a particular category. then when certifications come into it

We have a lot of members even at GuildsOM that are lawyers and doctors and just general enthusiasts. there's, what is that going to do to help them? Is it going to just give them a little bit more structure sometimes in their understanding? And I think that's a big part of it. to me is kind of where you get into theory, where you just want to have a program that can guide you through everything from fermentation, how is wine developed,

how are the grapes grown, then into all those different styles and soils and winemaking techniques. theory is certainly one part of it that every certification has. It's grounded on that. But then there's also the tasting aspect. Some are blind tasting, some are just understanding, are semi-blind. And I've done a lot of different of certifications. are a lot of organizational bodies as well.

again, for that enthusiast, do they just want to learn more so that way they can make really educated, but also kind of interesting selections when they're at a restaurant? do they want to kind of pique their interest to see, is this something that maybe they do want to take a career change or make that career change? So I think it's first starting to understand what are those different ones? And you hit on the big ones. So from...

and Spirits Education Trust, both in wine and spirits. If somebody is really at the very beginning of their understanding, that's where, you know, start with level one. That's why there's a level one, right, intentionally. If you're a little bit further, you can certainly jump in at a further pace and start with level two or even level three. then for quartermaster sommeliers, both Americas and Europe as well,

of those have to start at that introductory level and that gives that foundation of their protocols with tasting and theory and service and application. Scholar Guild is a great one that really specializes in or Spain or French, so you can really kind of dig deep into one. Society of Wine Educator, really theory driven for both certified specialists of wine and spirits.

we could keep going on, right? There's number of different local ones. I think part of that is just kind of doing that research a little bit online, but to see a lot of them have a sample practice quizzes or questions. that something that as an enthusiast, you will enjoy? Because this should be an enjoyable type of journey, especially if you were doing this just to learn more and really appreciate all of those different styles of wine.

Kristi Mayfield (08:58)

a great answer. mean, I didn't know those when I started and I started with quartermaster Somalia and soon realized it's a little more industry driven as far as the service side. It's very service focused, has a very large percentage of that. And then when I started, did my level two with Debbie said I was really surprised in a pleasant way to realize many or what percentage of participants at level one and level two were like me and more enthusiast.

Kristi Mayfield (09:27)

once you get up into the higher levels, that does change quite a bit. part of that is, you know, I think for enthusiasts, you know, the certifications can feel very, very intimidating. especially if somebody's just kind of new into wine, or maybe just new into wanting to learn more about wine.

daunting for so many reasons. I mean, there's times when I'm studying for my blind tastings or practicing my essays for theory, and there is just so much to know. And everyone is coming from a different journey. you know, there are many times that I even say, gosh, I don't have the same experience of running a beverage program at a Michelin star restaurant. My career path was different, you know, focused more on really kind of even the

the production and the operation side and the public relations. But yet everyone's coming from different angle that makes it for them to want to learn more. I think it's just because other people have done the journey before you and some have succeeded, some have not. But we all have to start somewhere. Every single person starts the beginning at some point to say, how do I pronounce these regions? How do I pronounce these grapes?

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (10:42)

I really smelling pineapple in this wine? Because there's so many things that we have to just appreciate in the process, also know I'm just going to have fun with this. So if it is something that an enthusiast says, I'm going to jump right in and I know I'm going to ask these questions that are probably sounding silly and I should know better, but where else am I going to go? I think that's a really cool reason why you're going through those certifications to begin with. You know what you don't know?

And then I think sometimes as you keep learning you realize, there's a lot more that I don't know

Kristi Mayfield (11:13)

it is very humbling because wine is so subjective. And so there is that fear factor. There's no it's not like a chemistry problem where there's one answer. It's it's really subjective. I think you you know, you touched upon it. And I know this was part of my initial wine journey is wine enthusiasts, you know, to self educate, will buy books, will subscribe to magazines, will watch videos, will go to tastings, but you still have this uncertainty around

Kristi Mayfield (11:40)

What do I really know? So you talked about the structured element of a certification. So can you explain why that might be that better solution?

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (11:51)

I think when it comes down to it, if you do set out to achieve a certification or take a certificate program or even enroll like a community college beverage program, right? there is an actual assigned to it or a pass fail, it validates. And that's really what a lot of these certifications are about. And this is, again, over years that I've done this for both...

entry level salespeople, enthusiasts, and those that are going for their master of wine or master sommelier exams as well, does validate. And so if that is important to know, this follows the same process that hundreds, if not thousands of others have followed. And if I can succeed at that, then I at least know that that is, for that particular is a successful outcome.

just reading a book, which could be outdated or could be more for the fun style of just learning about wine. The very first wine book, and I still have it on the shelf behind me, is one of those it simple, stupid type of wine books that I got at a half price bookstore Dallas when I started as a sales rep and I just kept reading through it to just get those foundations. it's...

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (13:09)

the confidence to talk about and to this story to other people. And I think the more confident you are at that, but also that validation, no one wants to say something wrong when someone else knows the correct answer. trust me, I've been on the kind of opposite side where I've had plenty of servers and present something to me. And I know it's not necessarily the most accurate, but as an industry,

They're trying, right? They're trying to kind of elevate this. And sometimes I can just pleasantly, you know, not correct, but, I also heard about this, right? And I think it's us as, again, as this industry, as consumers, enthusiasts, but also professionals, make sure that we're helping each other and, you know, pointing them in the right direction if it is something that may be not, you know, the most accurate to describe a style or

Kristi Mayfield (13:59)

love that so much think that's one of the challenges in wine in general is, there have been a lot of elements of it that have been so elevated and people, a fear around wine when, and I just don't think there should be. So I love it. You you've spent so many years of your career, in fact, your entire career in the industry, and you're still saying, want to help others. And I think that's a lot of what we're talking about in general today. looking a little bit beyond what we've talked about with the certifications,

Kristi Mayfield (14:27)

know, what are some other ways if somebody decides that's just not the right path for them? I mean, how could you enthusiasts to get some valuable educational opportunities so that they can enjoy their wine journey a little bit more confidently?

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (14:42)

I know you mentioned going to local wine tastings and dinners or trade tastings. There's a lot of different things just in your local community which can help with that. But I think sometimes it's not just taking and running with it. We actually just did a really cool seminar on AI and the wine education space. And how do you still kind of like...

ethically trust all of the information. That's the big topic, right? It's like, if you see something, how do you take that for what it's worth? let's say you've decided you don't want to go into a certification, which is honestly probably going to save you a lot of time and stress along the way, but you still just want to keep learning. Say you're going to tasting at your favorite bar on Barolo or on Italian wines. that,

Do a little of your research on Barolo. Dust off one of the books that you have, or you can go onto the and learn about it. But then actually go with more informed questions that you can ask the producer, the winemaker, the distributor, or whoever's hosting that. Afterwards, then come home and write about your journey. Don't just put those tasty notes aside and not do anything with them. Actually ...

that a commitment of, the next week, I'm going to learn about Barolo and I'm going to try to do my own little tasting. And more of those kind of themed bundles that I think you can do even on your own, it's just going to help lock that in even more. So videos, at maps, cook the cuisine of that particular region. But all of a sudden, Barolo might be your new passion that then you want to keep learning more.

so often we kind of go and sit through these 45 or hour minute and just of don't do anything with it, right? And it's all about that continuous learning. How do you make sure that that's going to just continue and have fun with it?

Kristi Mayfield (16:40)

think that's just awesome advice. on the point that, you know, there is so much information out there and finding a resource that that you can trust who has either done the certifications has the knowledge or the alphabet soup behind their their name, or just simply as they're out doing the research to where you can know that they're a trusted source is super important. Yeah. And that's exactly that's exactly the intent here on everyday sommelier. So I

Kristi Mayfield (17:09)

love that. I love that recommendation of not just doing your prep work, but also, just let it go. Don't don't just let the event end and walk away. I love that. let's switch gears and talk about the the service industry or really people who might be considering that as a potential career path. mean, of all, there's people in service industry, which has changed so much since the pandemic. they may either feel or

Kristi Mayfield (17:36)

they don't have any formal certifications, they may feel that, don't necessarily qualify for, say the next level. I mean, what would you say to someone who is either in that position of, you know, wanting to grow, feeling stuck or just starting and not feeling qualified?

Right, if they're just starting and not feeling qualified, I think just understanding that back to that humility, right? But going into it saying, I know I need to learn a lot to even just kind of get to the next level or the next whatever it is within that or catering job or winery or even restaurant as well.

how to fast track. And oftentimes, even if it is a small independent, you know, kind of establishment, there's still going to be that would be available, but also saying, really want to commit to this. I really want to learn. I really want to do I can to hopefully advance career. And that's ultimately even GuildSom 2, one of our missions, it's like, how do we just make sure to provide resources that can...

or enhance somebody's career, because we're all in this for a reason. On the enthusiast side, it would be elevate your passion and again, more informed decisions. on that service side, think knowing that it will take time. I am amazed by masters sommeliers and masters of wine that do it so quickly they're younger in their career. That was not me. I did a very slow and steady, as I keep adding letters to my name,

been, again, at a very kind of slow and steady pace, but everyone kind of has their own reason or their own time restrictions or even kind of life restrictions as well. But knowing you're not just going to immediately know this. And so ask if there's ways that you can taste or if there's flawed bottles that are sent back. Is there a way that you can go and use those to try to learn about that? Like why?

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (19:33)

Did that consumer send that particular bottle back and ask questions? there are so many great resources too of, I need to at least do the research before I jump into that first certification, if that's the path. too, just asking employers or asking other mentors of yours, would be the most relevant certification if this is my end goal to stay within restaurants and run beverage programs? should I start taking?

So many of the certifications too are almost like a big pyramid that overlap. So could be one path that just somebody follows, but they can also really overlap where it's level one here and the introductory here, as they kind of keep increasing. And might find one particular style of certification that you are really drawn to that kind of can guide you as well.

Kristi Mayfield (20:27)

think the point you made about the time and investment. It's not like these are courses where you sit in for three hours you know, at the end take a minute quiz and you've got that certification. These do take a lot of time and commitment. I always recommend that people get the materials well in advance of the course starting and at least read through it once be familiar so you know what you're walking into the same kind of concept as

Kristi Mayfield (20:55)

doing the research before you go to a tasting on Barolo. Go research Barolo!

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (20:58)

Right, exactly. And the certifications that get to the point where there are blind tastings and tastings involved, those definitely more because you're needing to source these samples and you're needing to go back and forth. But even beyond that, it's finding one that doesn't include wine, but yet you're still doing this to learn about wine. So it's still going to be really important for you you're studying Germany that week or that month or day.

you are going out and immersing yourself, but find your local wine bars. Find your places that will pour one and two ounce pours. And that's the best way to be able to do that more economically as well. But also you're still getting, you know, you're still getting a good representation of that region.

Kristi Mayfield (21:41)

yeah, absolutely. Because I think that's one of the most expensive parts. It's not just the cost of the course itself. It is, you the fact that you do have to taste wine along the way to understand it. Yeah. for folks in the service industry, I this misconception that if they get this certification or certifications that this is automatically going to lead to some kind of career success, pay raise, etc. position

Kristi Mayfield (22:09)

this misconception and how might somebody that information apply it in a completely different way that is actually validating towards that next level promotion,

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (22:22)

it still comes down to you'll really need to want it yourself before you go for any certification. So if it's something that is recommended or even required by an employer, again, whether that's in the restaurant, supplier, wholesaler, side of it, it is, you still need to really want that. But also, just be clear, right? I go through this,

there going to be an opportunity for then me to myself for these other advancements or other career opportunities it becomes more of just a foundational onboarding experience and it's just required or highly recommended. I think knowing that upfront. assume that just because, again,

passed is that that is going to happen. That's really where you're going to need to want it yourself. feel like almost all of my certifications that I've done, they certainly have built for where I am today, but nothing was dependent upon that. But I know that, again, organizations around the world different. So just ask, asking those questions too, also asking yourself.

I pass this and it doesn't do anything immediately for me, am I okay with that? Or what would I hope at the end of this? Is it just so that then I can give back and help mentor others that were in my position? could be enough to get you through those or other parts of it too. certainly having that validation

does help within the industry. certain positions, it is going to be highly encouraged. Or if you are to continually do wine education, you have to have something that's higher than those that you're teaching. So just being really clear with yourself, but also for your employer or other mentors and mentees around the world that you're asking those questions.

Kristi Mayfield (24:20)

love that. And I think you kind of already answered the next question is, you know, analyzing whether this certification is really worth the investment. know several people who have taken certification courses kind of a partnership with manager or say the restaurant that they work for where restaurant makes the investment. But as part of that, person has to, you know, really work on it.

Kristi Mayfield (24:45)

and the class in order for that bill to get paid, which I think is, first I was like, gosh, that's kind of scary, but then I really think it builds that trust and that partnership that it is of value and the values being taken seriously on both sides as well.

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (25:00)

there's so much in every certification that just the journey alone, and I know that hard to think about this if you fail and you don't the letters or the certification that you want in, but you are still able to network learn from so many other people. So sometimes it may be, especially if someone's looking to switch careers or enter the wine industry in whatever facet, just to be able to talk to others within that same

and then you're learning from others. So as I was going through the WSCT diploma, the first half I was with Gallo. The second half I was now with GuildSong. But just to be able to have different connections and different kind of levels of expertise or just experiences that I could with some colleagues and then others that were service and in restaurants daily could share that side of it too.

knowing that as well, that's another huge benefit that you don't always see, but you can just get some support and encouragement from others in your local community or virtually, since so many of these are now available virtually, that really helps, you know, just kind of build networks. And then if you ever decide to go that region or, you know, change careers, again, you've got a list of people that you could contact.

Kristi Mayfield (26:17)

that's a great recommendation. that we've talked both for the enthusiasts as well as the service industry the certifications themselves, mean, what are some career paths? I think about the restaurant industry, whether that's fine dining or something, like local wine bar type fun, there's the retail side of it. are some doors that this could open that aren't necessarily so visible?

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (26:41)

depends on your local community, certainly, or even kind of globally. But I mean, there's everything from, again, the PR side. There's kind of the private event side for corporate, you know, establishments that just want somebody local that can come and, you know, help put on these kind of fun educational events that understands and really knows the wine. that education is always going to be part of it. If you are a sommelier at, again,

know, a top restaurant or even the local wine bar, you are still sometimes in different styles of ways, but you're still that knowledge that you have about that wine, that producer, that region. that really carries on. know, there's the sales side, if that's really kind of the path, certainly within distributors, within there's, you know, local wineries in all 50 states here in the US. So, you know, there are opportunities to of understand that. And even the

production side. There's auctions, there's seller management or helping others with their collections. I there's so many different paths that I think a lot of people that I've of just talked to, mentored, menteed lately, are trying to figure out what are some different places they can do that gives them more flexibility in their schedules.

that can be certainly scary, right, to go off on your own. But if you have built this network and you feel like you have that confidence to be able to have more of that through different certifications, there's just lots of different opportunities out there.

Kristi Mayfield (28:17)

love that. that vein, let's get a little personal, if you will. for you, what has been your most achievement, whether that's from a career perspective or one of your certifications, what would that look like to you?

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (28:20)

Yeah.

because it's so top of mind, just a few months ago passed the WSAT diploma. So that is going to be for me, because that is the highest level of achievements to date there. And it was for me about a two and a half year journey. started it virtually during the pandemic, careers, took over as executive director of GuildSOM in the middle of it. two little kids, have a very supportive husband that would pour my at

in the evenings, I was maybe putting the kids to bed and coming down and doing that because I didn't have the ability to have this tasting group and support network. Kansas City is where I reside and they've got a great SOM and beverage community. That just didn't work in my life and schedule. me, just because there were so many different that were made at one point, I remember my kids, they would say, Mom, are you studying? Are you working?

would say, because they would see my computer out, they would see my notebooks, they would see my glasses of wine, and I would say a little of both. Because for me, running a wine education international platform, me to be studying certainly helps all of that too. I think if somebody is in a different career set, that why. Again, that purpose of why you're doing it has to be even more apparent sometimes to draw those connections.

really getting final certificate and the pin in the mail a lot just given everything those last few years that had kind of gone on in the world and life in general. for my career, again, mean, sometimes it was as simple as getting promoted from sales representative to district sales manager back in the distributor, right? mean, silly, but to lead my first team and

on my success as the placements and the regions and the wine and all of that, I don't wanna overlook sometimes those promotions or those early advancements in my career, certainly then to have a great career path at Gallo for so many years and working in California directly with a lot of the...

winemakers and marketers and all of that, but then to be able to lead GuildSOM and to be able to impact, you know, over 9,000 members worldwide who are just wanting to learn about wine and working with so many different of our regional partners, kind of all comes circle. again, all of that kind of culminated in the last few years. So it's just been a really few years, but good to just, you know,

finding people that say, thank you for helping me get to where I wanted to be in my journey. And that's really what it all comes down to.

Kristi Mayfield (31:19)

you've done amazing things and you've just, I think you've done it all with grace. I love that you admit that you've done it with some, had to do it with some humility as well along the way. know that's the one thing about wine is like, you know, I always tell everybody you're not going to get anything wrong, but you might not get it right either.

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (31:28)

absolutely. Plenty of failures.

Exactly. Yeah, no, there are a few. like, do you mean I didn't get a single wine, right? And you just, you have to learn from those and you have to take that and say, that's my next area of focus. I've got to start really brushing up on that region or that style of wine, but very humiliating. Yep.

Kristi Mayfield (31:56)

And for our listeners out there to hear from really one of the experts at the highest level of certification in the WSET program. I mean, to hear her say she's had failures, I hope that just inspires you that this is a journey. education is a lifelong journey. It is not an end point. Yes.

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (32:13)

Exactly. And just, yeah, enjoy it. Learn from it all. Yeah, just have fun. If you're not having fun in your studies, then again, going to have those days that it's just very daunting flashcards, essay writing, blind tasting, but have to step back and just enjoy a glass of wine and not analyze it. Don't just, you know, okay, I've got to go write my tasty note. Just go enjoy wine. Right? Yeah.

Kristi Mayfield (32:36)

With a great view.

gosh. Well, this has been awesome. And so I'd like to kind of just wrap up with a few key points and feel free, obviously, to chime in. So, you know, we know now that of course, wine certifications aren't all the same. might be a little bit more industry driven with the service elements, others that are maybe a little bit more approachable from an enthusiast perspective. the end of the day, having fun is key. out what your goals first and foremost,

then if you are someone who's looking at either entering the service industry or you're in the service industry, really partner with your the organization that you work with on what their goals are and what that might look like for you or just dive in as an individual who wants to learn more and leverage that the way. But if if certifications aren't necessarily for you, I really loved what you said about take time before an event do

little of your own research, the event % full in, but then take your notes of taking away is probably something that I really hadn't thought about. So that's a really lovely way of kind of wrapping it all up with a pretty bow at the end. But I think you're also going to remember a little bit more if you do that.

and that can go, know, a quick little webinar that you listen in on or, you know, an article that you read. If it piques your interest, run with it, you know, and sometimes our time is so limited where we can really kind of dive in, but maybe that setting aside a little bit of time on your, you know, Monday afternoon or a Friday morning or whatever time of day and time of the week that it works best for you to have a little bit of that just curiosity time. Last, the last couple of years, one of my just

personal and also like our on it. Just stay curious, right? Keep wanting to learn. Even if you've achieved what you deem as your top certification, is still so much to just understand and learn just to stay relevant and up to date on the world of wine and spirit. So just stay curious, keep learning.

Kristi Mayfield (34:43)

Yes, absolutely. I mean, I'm always listening to podcasts. So if you're listening to everyday sommelier, in your morning commute, or walking your dogs or your kids playing at the playground, I'm always stopping and asking phone to take a note on a point so that I can remember it and go back and either write it down or learn more about it. So very, very great points. And if you don't go the certification route, there's tons and tons of options

including obviously podcast books then you know if you do want to pursue a certification you are now with the information you need on how to go about deciding one right for you

GuildSomm, Jenny Hemmer (35:21)

Yeah, this is something that have walked these steps before you. So if it is something that you're interested in, reach out. There's many people that are willing and wanting to share their own paths. Everyone's going to have a different, slightly different recommendation, but the more knowledge you have to your own kind of journey and that own learning path is going to be that much better for you the long run as well. Just have fun with it.

Kristi Mayfield (35:47)

Well, we'll definitely put the Guildsomm link and the show notes as well. Jenny and that way, know, people can access that and learn a little bit more about what you do on that side of the coin.

Kristi Mayfield (35:59)

so much for joining us on this episode of Everyday Sommelier. And if you want to be part of our amazing community of fellow wine lovers, join our Facebook group, Everyday Sommelier pod. We're sharing tips and insights, favorite wines, upcoming events, and most importantly, there's no judgment allowed. And we put the link in the show notes,

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