Kristi Mayfield (00:01)
In a world where so much focuses on living a healthy lifestyle, making smart choices in what we eat and drink, this likely translates to wanting to know more about the wines you drink. How the grapes were grown, where the wine was made, were any additives or chemicals used? Does this alter the way the wine tastes? Will the way the grapes are grown or the wine is made result in a massive headache or any other symptom if you drink it? Or are there cleaner, healthier wine options?
We've all heard buzzwords like organic, regenerative, natural, and biodynamic when it comes to wine. But what do they really mean? And why as wine lovers should we pay attention? Do you feel overwhelmed by the jargon or quote unquote trendy labels and may struggle to find ones you actually trust? If you've struggled to find the answers to any of these questions, you are in luck as today's guest has the inside scoop on biodynamics and wine.
and he is going to let you in on all the details when we come back in just a few seconds.
Kristi Mayfield (01:25)
So I'm a Midwestern girl and I grew up gardening with my dad. Well, maybe I should just clarify. I grew up being instructed by my dad how to garden. But during high school and graduate school, some of my best and favorite memories were harvesting peas and new potatoes and tomatoes and strawberries and all these other fruits and veggies from the gardens my dad had plopped down somewhere around town. Now, sometimes the veggies I would pick were
so good and so fresh that I would just sit in the garden and eat them right there. I've always believed that the reason these vegetables tasted so amazing is because they were so fresh and they were so lovingly tended from seed to harvest.
Now I learned about the farmer's almanac from my dad. Not that I ever read it, but I truly did buy into its intent to help farmers plan when to plant, when to harvest, how to get ahead of weather patterns and all that other advice. But today's topic takes that as well as astrological elements of the farmer's almanac. And it takes it about a hundred steps further. And I am thrilled to have as a guest today, William
Davis of Wilson Daniels Wine Distribution with us because he's going to bring biodynamics and wine to life.
Kristi Mayfield (02:48)
So welcome, William, and as a little bit of introduction, I'm going to share with our audience some of your many accolades. So first and foremost, you're an advanced Psalm and a certified wine educator among a few other titles, certifications, awards, memberships. But obviously that's just not enough, is it? You're pursuing your master sommelier and your master of wine, which are two of the most difficult.
Kristi Mayfield (03:15)
certifications in the whole wine industry. But with all of this experience and all of your credentials, can you share with our audience and help them understand why overwhelming words like organics and natural wines and biodynamics are so crazy? And why are you so passionate about biodynamics? So you can help them understand really what it means.
if they simply just want to enjoy a good glass of wine.
WILLIAM DAVIS (03:46)
Well, it's it I feel the biggest challenge when it comes to, the questions of organics or bio or natural is that natural as a term seems to incorporate all of the above and only too often, particularly with us in the industry, we sometimes cross those definitions over, in terms of, well, this is biodynamic, ergo, it's natural.
or it's organic, ergo it's natural, meaning that, no added herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, taking control of the soil without these inputs, these, these human inputs. But don't forget, at the end of the day, it is a very much the human interaction and the intervention is what allows us to make wine in the first place. So it's not like it just is created out of nothing.
these are grapes that are, at least in terms of the wines that we talk about every day, they are brought in with a goal of, yeast being added and, leaving things alone, but making sure that nothing goes awry, that we, have some of the faults that we only too often find in a number of wines that are deemed natural. And that's where it gets super challenging.
What is it that I'm tasting? Is there a topicity? Meaning that, the wines taste from the region or the grape variety that they're from? So it's very hard for us to be able to convey that to the average consumer. That's one of the biggest challenges, probably the biggest. Then when you get into the differences of organics versus biodynamics, there's a lot of crossover there.
But the big thing about biodynamics are the number of these lectures that were initiated by Rudolf Steiner back in 1924. So this was a time, right off the World War I, that a lot of German, Polish, and Austrian farms, they were using a lot of herbicides and pesticides because they didn't have the manpower.
due to the losses that were incurred by these countries during World War I. So they found out that their farms, it wasn't vineyards per se, it was farms that were unfortunately dying. The soil was not healthy and it affected everything on the farm. So he started to look at a number of the many practices that were organic in nature.
WILLIAM DAVIS (06:34)
and are a tenet of most organic farming practices nowadays, but then took it one step further. And really his one step further was the addition or the inclusion of the compost mixtures and those treatments that are now that tenet of biodynamics versus organics. I know it seems a little crazy and a little odd, and some have already deemed it as pseudoscience.
What I love about bio dynamics is the proof is in the pudding. The wines that I have tasted from producers that are working in some level of bio dynamic, agricultural farming, seem to have more energy. They seem to, if, made according to what I say, classic principles, they are wines that show to pisci.
with more energy, with more verve, they are just simply more interesting minds at the end of the day.
Kristi Mayfield (07:37)
Very cool. Now you have already highlighted that this is a very complicated and sometimes overlapping concept in the winemaking industry. let's, as we go forward, let's try to break it down into three areas. One, what happens in the vineyard and grape growing and you started to discuss some of those already. And then the impact on the wine or the wine styles. And then I'd love to get your thoughts on what is
biodynamics mean to the future of the wine industry overall? you mentioned already, you mentioned treatments, fertilized natural fertilizers, not chemical fertilizers, but what are some of these unique practices about biodynamic farming? I hear things like planting according to moon phases, etc. And, let we'll kind of talk about what those mean here in a bit to the final wine, but
Talk a little bit more about that.
WILLIAM DAVIS (08:33)
Well, it really goes back to the core principle that the farm is a single unit within the cosmos. So the prime objective, and this is paraphrasing from the biodynamic website, is that it's always to promote healthy conditions for life.
What they're trying to do is ensure that any living creature, whether or not that's for or flana or some of the mammals, insects that are present in this environment have the best conditions to live and to thrive. Now, of course, we find ourselves with the challenge of, well, there are some pests that aren't good for grape growing.
Insects, know, everybody's heard about the phylloxera louse and you know that virus had devastated vineyards back in 19th and 20th centuries and still continues today. But it could be, birds. It can be, the deer that come in and eat your grapes because they're super ripe. all of these things come into play. I think, when it comes to bio-dynamics in the vineyard, it
WILLIAM DAVIS (09:50)
really comes down to, yes, are you going to work in the vineyard on a specific cycle according to the moon cycle? those are exactly, those are defined by the biodynamic calendar. And so that was revised and in many ways perfected over the years. And this was really after Rudolf Steiner.
Kristi Mayfield (10:00)
With the cosmos, yeah.
WILLIAM DAVIS (10:14)
in terms of how they are now using that as, again, that guideline. But it's really the when and how you, work with your different biodynamic treatments. this is when we get into the crazy things like you see a cow horn,
Kristi Mayfield (10:32)
I was just going to ask you about that.
WILLIAM DAVIS (10:35)
Yeah, it's it's really no different than organic manures or, different fertilizers, right, in order to, get the soil healthy again, which if the soil is healthy, best chance of the environment being healthy. But, know, the cow horn, being, filled with cow manure.
and then planted. See, here's the other thing is that with biodynamics, it's not only utilizing those treatments, it's also how they're prepared. So they have to be prepared at different times during the year. Some that are buried into the ground, some that are then added to, the different composts.
how and when those are placed. Because it's like, OK, I've read this. You need Valerian and you need the cowhorn. You need this. You need that. It's more about when they're done as well. Because if you think about the Cosmos and you think about moon cycles, you think about the seasons, those all have to come into play. So it's like, yeah, I'm going to use Yara. Well,
WILLIAM DAVIS (11:43)
You don't want to necessarily use yarrow at a certain season. You're going to need to put those yarrow into the ground generally during the summer rather than the winter. Okay? You bring it out in the fall. It's all of these little plays that are the differences between bio and organic farming.
Kristi Mayfield (12:05)
Got it. So that's great And I think if you call it down to it's not just the what you do, it's the when you do it. And everything is very much natural versus chemical. And so some wine enthusiasts, including those on our audience, do worry about pesticides, chemicals in their wines, even if they aren't necessarily die hard organics fans.
Kristi Mayfield (12:29)
Can you go into you mentioned sometimes the words get interplayed, but how does biodynamic farming address this concern? And can it help our audience or wine lovers in general drink wines more confidently if they're trying to avoid pesticides and chemicals?
WILLIAM DAVIS (12:47)
Yeah, well, at the end of the day, no herbicides, pesticides or fungicides are used because that was the most important thing that Rudolf Steiner was facing 100 years ago. Funny enough, it's a hundred year anniversary, right? this is 2024 when he, started to give these lectures. Unfortunately, he passed away a year later, but it was how do you take care of the farm?
and get all of these bad things out. So no herbicides, pesticides, fungicides will ever be used in biodynamic farming. Now the question of additives come into things like copper sulfate, which we can get a little bit more into that, but really all it is is an anti-fungal. And you kind of want that particularly in...
wine regions or vineyards that see a lot moisture or they see, an instance where mildew can occur when you're going to utilize that, also, earlier in the season, to prevent, the Downey mildew powdery mildew thing like that from affecting the upcoming harvest.
WILLIAM DAVIS (14:04)
because you want those vines to be as healthy as possible. But you can pretty much be assured that herbicides, pesticides, fungicides will not be found if you're working with or, drinking a wine that's biodynamic.
Yeah, because even the fungus and mildews that you mentioned, that copper treatment, that sulfur treatment, those are organic compounds, minerals. They're not something that was created in a lab. These are naturally found in nature anyway, right?
WILLIAM DAVIS (14:33)
Exactly. And that's where you get some of the small differences, where we're splitting hairs between organics and bio because of the certifications that are required with these different organizations that are certifying those wines.
and there is actually an organization that defines what biodynamics is. Demeter or demeter, right?
Correct, yeah. So Demeter, it was started the same year. So they're celebrating their 100th anniversary as well. So that was right in line with the Rudolf Steiner's lectures. And doesn't mean to say that there aren't other organizations around the world that are also certifying biodynamic principles and certifying themselves. in France, another major organization is BioDiBen.
WILLIAM DAVIS (15:26)
So, they were established I think in the mid eighties, if I remember correctly. And then you've got a couple of others, one in, I think in Australia, in Southeast Asia as well. The thing is, is that even if, the wine is biodynamic certified, there are a lot of producers that are now working with some biodynamic principles.
in line with their maybe organic practices, in sustainability.
Kristi Mayfield (15:55)
Fantastic. Well, that you bring up sustainability and that really kind of leads into that question that and the hot topic of climate change and carbon footprint. we it's on the news every single day. And in the wine industry, there's been a lot of fallout in areas like especially bottle weight and the cost of transportation and what that means to, the wine industry contributing negatively to the carbon footprint.
So what impact do you think biodynamic winemaking might have on the environment and for somebody who cares about sustainability but isn't necessarily a wine expert, how does this all play together?
WILLIAM DAVIS (16:34)
Well, I think that when it comes to organic symbio, meaning in like in the vineyard, if you're just talking about the farm, right? These are probably the best practices that we could possibly find, but they're continuing to be, what I say, perfected or fine tuned with, in areas such as regenerative agriculture.
ways that we can stop a ridification of many of the soils. So those weren't necessarily things that Rudolph Steiner was addressing, a hundred years ago, but these are still the best practices. I think that for biodynamics, it's just a different way of looking at the world that we live in and taking better care of it.
again, the most important thing right is how are we able to sustain life? How are we able to promote that? If you can do that in the in the soil, well, then you've probably got the best opportunity for areas when it comes to climate change. as we start to understand more about, carbon emissions.
That's when we're starting to get more into, not only how do we take care of the soil, right? again, these are the best ways, that we've seen up to date of how they would address that. But, with,
WILLIAM DAVIS (18:03)
just because you're in the vineyard or you're in the winery taking care of those, you also have to be more cognizant of what you're doing in getting your wines to market. Doesn't really help if you're doing all of these things to take care of your farm, but you're using or not really paying attention to the fossil fuels that are required to get your wines to the other side of the world, right? It's great.
WILLIAM DAVIS (18:30)
sell everything out these will take generations, and it's a much deeper subject, but that's why you see those topics of sustainability.
not necessarily just being the buzzword. But if they're doing things like, you know what? We can save CO2 emissions by 40 or 50 % by lessening the carbon footprint by shaving 40 % off the weight of our glass bottles.
doesn't that do something for the world, for the economy, for people as well?
Kristi Mayfield (19:10)
Yeah, it's not just thinking about the vineyard to winery. It's really also that bottle to glass that needs to be considered as well, right?
WILLIAM DAVIS (19:22)
Absolutely. it's, why whenever I go back to a biodynamics, that was the first time that I had ever heard holistic being used, being used as a, a definition, if we were for, how to bring a great wine to market. it's, it's holistic in the vineyard. It's holistic in the winery.
you then start to adopt many of those practices internally. And we see it with producers like and Claude Lafleve or Nicolas Jolie, those that have been, key figures, La Loubise Loi, if the main Loi, for example, these, these key figures in the biodynamic movement when it comes to wine, that it's a lifestyle. It's not simply why I'm doing this because, biodynamics is cool.
Kristi Mayfield (20:12)
Yeah, right now I think there are a lot of people who feel fairly disconnected either to mother nature or nature in general or the land just because of daily lives. at the end of the day, if you think about biodynamic wines, this might potentially be a way for them to get some of that connectivity back.
WILLIAM DAVIS (20:32)
Yes, in short, that's why we drink wine in the first place, right? it's how do we get reconnected to mother nature? Well, having a little bit of fun. Alcohol is a good thing, particularly with friends to socialize. We are social animals. How the food fellowship, how we are as a society, as a species,
most other mammals don't think about the preparation of their food. They just go out, hunt, kill. They're not really thinking, is my steak, medium rare or medium well? They don't think of those things. it is entirely a human experience. And when it comes to wine and that culture, this is a way for, us, it's good for humanity.
Kristi Mayfield (21:23)
Right. It's kind of taking that Maslow's theory of hierarchy. And this is part of the human element of it that you don't necessarily see with other species. love that. So let's get into the wine in our bottle, in our glass. People have turned a lot to organics and naturals to avoid the chemicals and things that we talked about to have this more, I'll call it a quote unquote, authentic experience. there's also been some rumblings around the
question of whether these wines truly give the types of flavors and purities and the typicity that you referenced. do you sense that biodynamic wines have some of the limitations that have been purported around say organic and natural wines?
WILLIAM DAVIS (22:06)
Well, therein is the challenge, limitations. There are a lot of producers that follow the biodynamic principles. But when you taste the wines, because maybe you've been tasting a lot of wines from other producers in that region,
you're then faced with is this typical of the region? Have the majority been making wines like this for generations or centuries in this area from the same grape varieties? So you can get that shock to what I call the wine system or the Appalachian system. The other part is,
yields will be lower generally in biodynamic farms or vineyards compared to those that are more commercially accepted. Also you're utilizing things like different strains, whether or not you're using commercial yeasts for a lot of big wineries to ensure that there's full fermentation and it's a consistent fermentation.
where you might not get that with some of the biodynamic producers. And then you get into some of the areas where is it faulted? Is the wine faulted? Are there organisms within this wine, such as Britannomyces, that you may not find even in other biodynamic producers? So.
I always go back to is the wine delicious. Is this something that you will enjoy?
But, it's really experiencing what you some of the loves that you have about wine to begin with start there at your baseline and then, all right, how much further do I want to delve into that?
Kristi Mayfield (24:06)
So when you're talking about things like maybe some a little nuanced, I'll call it nuanced flavors from yeast and maybe even some things that if too much of it is there, could be a fault like Britannomyces or Brett. Is that typical of a biodynamic wine or is that something that's just maybe on the periphery and can be a result of it? Just so our listeners understand that
Are we talking about the whole package of biodynamic wines or are we just talking about this as a natural cause and effect that can be present?
WILLIAM DAVIS (24:42)
It can be present, meaning that I feel that it's on the periphery. If we were going to do what percentage of wines that are either Demeter certified have Britannomyces and which ones don't, I would say the majority don't. However, because of that freedom that producers have within the biodynamic matrix.
WILLIAM DAVIS (25:11)
if you would, or that rubric. Or tenomyces, if it exists in the cellar. and you you end up with it in a wine or you know certain wines then it's fair game.
Kristi Mayfield (25:26)
Right. And That's really true across non-biodynamic wines. mean, any wine and some regions are more prolific in having nuances of brett in them in general. So, okay. Yeah.
WILLIAM DAVIS (25:30)
Thank exactly. So, organics or biodynamics, it's up to the preference of the winemaker or the, the, the, vigneron, or the general manager of that winery, right? if they, prefer that style and they think that there are those that prefer that style too, they're going to make that wine, with some of those characteristics. And that's really, I don't want to say caviat emptor.
I don't want to say, know, buyer beware. It's more buyer aware.
Kristi Mayfield (26:06)
Right, right. Yeah, because personally, if I have a little just a little bit of breath, I kind of think it makes the wine a little more interesting sometimes. do I want every single one of my wines to have it? No, when we are talking about biodynamics and that this is really something that comes from the ground through the bottling,
And then we think about the quality elements we've just been talking about. There's a lot of listeners out there who think if you buy a more expensive wine, you're automatically going to get potentially something that has a higher quality. And a lot of times you end up being very disappointed. Does biodynamics and do biodynamic principles tend to lead in general to more consistency and a higher quality experience regardless of the price or
I think some of the things we've talked about could be, it depends and there might be more,
It might be more expected because there is less manipulation going on with the wines.
WILLIAM DAVIS (27:06)
Yeah, it's, well, think of the, think of the costs associated with hand harvesting versus mechanized with.
taking the time, the man hours, because it's not like you can utilize AI to put these preparations together, dig a hole, bury it, and then come back and then dig that back up again. The man hours also have to be equated into the cost of the wines.
as well as the lower yields that you usually get from these vineyards that are biodynamically farmed. So if you're making higher yields, well, then you could probably make more wine. And that's how many farmers, think in terms of how they are going to sustain their families on the farm, right? this was the business model for
places like, Barolo or Barbaresco or in feudal Europe, where the more fruit that the workers brought in to the cooperative or to, the Lord or Lady, were making the wine, the more money that they would make, right? So if the yields are lower, then the costs of those wines generally will be higher as a result.
WILLIAM DAVIS (28:34)
There are a lot of studies that have been done over the years where they started, know, lower yields means better quality wine. And some of that is certainly true, but it depends on the region. And I know that this is a very around the way explanation. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
But we know that the man hours required, the amount of care, the concern, the greater attention will result in, I would say on average, a better wine because there's been more processes, in terms of quality control, right? Both in the vineyard as well as in the winery to ensure that the best wine comes to market.
Kristi Mayfield (29:24)
Great, great. Yeah, it's never an easy question. It's never black or white. It's always that fine area or big area of gray in the middle. Yeah.
No, well, because you've got these, you, you, you, you have these processes in place and you have to follow these guidelines. Well, there's less room for, cutting corners than you have in, I don't want to say less expensive wines because there can be great wines found at every price point, but
WILLIAM DAVIS (29:57)
If you're talking about a, three or $4 bottle of wine, well, you take into account, maybe the land is a lot cheaper. You might take into account that the yields are higher so that they can sustain, the, the low price, of selling their wines. You can also say, well, they're not going to use, new barrels, which is an additional cost. Maybe they're going to use wood staves.
Kristi Mayfield (30:23)
Yeah, or chips,
WILLIAM DAVIS (30:25)
chips, right? all of these things that might replicate, it's, no, I don't want to use the analogy, but it's easy to do so. when you talk about, a Jimmy Chu bag and then a knockoff, they may look great from the outside, but you can see the amount of work that's put into, the top designers, the quality of leather, the quality of materials.
the amount of time that was taken to make this as opposed to something you might find on a street corner.
Kristi Mayfield (30:58)
Got it. So for the average consumer, so if I am going down to my local wine shop, how do I actually identify these biodynamic wines on the shelf? Is there a requirement for labeling or is this something you simply just have to research? You've named a couple of producers. Do you have to find those specific producers just to ensure that you are actually buying a
wine that was made using biodynamic principles or certified by Debit or.
WILLIAM DAVIS (31:28)
Yeah. Well, the first is that you look on the back label to see if there is a Demeter stamp showing that it is certified by Demeter or Bio-Débén, particularly for those wines from France. So that's the first way that you can, ensure that you're buying a biodynamic wine. The second would be, maybe great thing about
WILLIAM DAVIS (31:54)
today is that we have the technology in our hands. So I just want to take a look on their website and see is the winery, maybe they're not certified by Demeter or by the band, but they employ biodynamic principles. so there are ways for us to, check and, get a little research done.
Kristi Mayfield (32:09)
that's a good point.
WILLIAM DAVIS (32:17)
provide some insight to many of the wines that are on the shelf, because you're right, there's a sea of wines out there, right? No, it can be daunting, to say the least, but there are fail safes for being able to utilize, and that's a way to do it.
Kristi Mayfield (32:19)
Do you see any trends in stores or wine shops having a section for, I know a lot of them have natural wine sections. Do you see that trend maybe leaning towards organics and biodynamic wines? Maybe calling those out in a whole new section?
WILLIAM DAVIS (32:55)
Depends on the store. I would say, 20 years ago, it was, before the advent of what, I want to call natural or orange or macerated wines, for example, which kind of all fall into that category, which again, makes it so much more confusing to the consumer. well, it's orange. Well, that means it's natural. Well, natural doesn't necessarily mean that.
They're farming organically or biodynamically, but they probably are. But the biodynamic, if we're talking about a section, I used to see a lot more of that biodynamic organic 20 years ago. it's being, because they are more universally accepted.
I'm seeing more and more biodynamic and organic just simply being included with other wines from other...
Kristi Mayfield (33:49)
Region or or varietal. Okay.
WILLIAM DAVIS (33:52)
No, so it means that you probably will need to, look on the back label, particularly in some of the larger stores in some of the smaller wine shops for the most part, the buyer, or the owner of that shop is immediately looking for producers that farm and produce wines bio dynamically or, what they call natural or organic. So you've got to pretty good shot of 90 % of those wines, because there are always some that are going to be using a combination, maybe they won't, but the checks and balances has generally been done by the buyer at that store. So you can feel pretty safe that the wines are going to follow
Kristi Mayfield (34:27)
Combination, yeah. great.
WILLIAM DAVIS (34:47)
at least one, if not all of the principles.
Kristi Mayfield (34:50)
When it comes to things like biodynamics, there's always going to be skeptics, right? to dispel some of the myths out there, the topics we talked about earlier, maybe these wines don't taste as good, they might have faults or they may be funkier. Can you share any evidence or studies that supports the benefits of biodynamic practices in winemaking and how this could potentially help vineyards in general, the long term health of the vineyards and what this might mean to the wine industry just from a wine drinking experience, not just today, but future generations.
WILLIAM DAVIS (35:27)
Yeah, that's always been the challenge with biodynamics, as a concept, as a philosophy is for many in academia, it's a pseudoscience. Now,
When you look at the studies, however, biodynamic farming, well as, at least winemaking, let's just talk about farming for a second. The yields, the overall quality of produce, whether or not that's, know, grapes in the case of wine or, fruits, veggies, anything that we talk about from biodynamic farms, the quality.
is higher as well as the soil health is better. There's greater numbers of microbes. There's more health in the ecosystem. So all of those things have been measured. They've been proven. There's no reason to deny them. It's just whether or not we're then comparing well, those that are organic versus biodynamic.
it's really difficult to say, well, one's better than the other. But I feel that we're, missing the forest for the tree sort of thing, where, we shouldn't be looking necessarily at, is biodynamics better than organics is biodynamics better than the conventional farming practices that we've seen. Over centuries,
We do know that without a doubt that it's measurably better.
And in many ways, equal with organics in, again, in terms of the soil health, the quality of fruit.
Kristi Mayfield (37:13)
So those are some pretty powerful statements when you're talking about.
go back to my trip to New Zealand, where so much of the focus of winemaking, and especially the farming is to leave the land better than they started it, right? and I think that, that principle of leaving the land better for future generations versus what we came into is
I think it's one, it's very lofty, but yet it's so critical in our environment today. And so I guess the final thought I'd ask is, is biodynamics and these principles of leaving the land better, of sustainability, of reducing our carbon footprint, is this going to lead to an improved overall wine experience for everyone as we go forward, if it's truly adopted by more people in the wine industry?
WILLIAM DAVIS (38:08)
If it's truly adopted by people in the wine industry, short answer is yes. How can it not? Of course it's going to result in a better wine experience for the consumer. The quality of fruit is going to be better. The vineyard as well as the farm has a greater chance of surviving into future generations.
I feel that when it comes to wine and food, these are the things that in many ways keep us going.
How can it not be a better experience on a much larger global, existential level?
Kristi Mayfield (38:45)
That's a really beautiful way of summing up our conversation today. what I've kind of taken away from this, William, is, there's several key elements around biodynamics that can be really important to, the average wine enthusiast, or I shouldn't say average, there's nothing average about wine enthusiasts, to the everyday wine enthusiast. And one that is these principles
are going to assure you a product that doesn't have the pesticides and chemicals and the things that could potentially have a negative impact on on you and your body. To the wines from a perspective of the quality of the fruit and the purity of the fruit, even the complexity of the fruit because of the lower yields you've talked about several times can deliver something that's a little more elevated regardless of the price point.
but you may need to expect something that's a little bit higher cost because of all of the manual inputs and the thought and the care and attention that goes into these wines. And then kind of that third element is if we are all so focused on global warming, reducing carbon footprint, as a consumer, we can aid the global initiatives by trying to
put more of these types of wines into our portfolio or drink more of these types of wines on a Tuesday night with our food? Would you have anything kind of to add to those or did I get something wrong?
WILLIAM DAVIS (40:21)
No, it's, you you you talk about the price of, of, of wine, a produce of food, and it's been certainly a, a buzzword over the last year or two, with global influences, with, inflation, but at the same time, you do get what you pay for only too often, that overriding statement.
of, trying to go to the bottom of the barrel, or trying to scrape the barrel in order to get what we need to sustain ourselves.
Again, when it comes to wine, that's the beautiful thing about it. We do want something great going into our bodies. It's why we go to Whole Foods, joke about it being Whole Paycheck. The costs of many of the...
WILLIAM DAVIS (41:12)
the foods that we put into our body and I consider wine as a food.
If they're going to be more expensive because of organics, because of biodynamics, because of really just taking care of the soil and the resulting wildlife that surrounds the vineyard or the farm, how can it not be good for the earth? We're just trying to sustain it. And we sustain ourselves by sustaining it.
WILLIAM DAVIS (41:40)
for future generations for not only humans but for every living creature that's here.
Kristi Mayfield (41:49)
think the the elements we also talked about is, bringing these biodynamic wines into our own wine journey isn't necessarily as difficult as one might think one you do have the labeling. So if you look on the back and you see the dimmeter, you see the by the then certifications, you're getting a biodynamic wine. And then also just asking because I do think you're exactly right when you say talk to your wine shop owner or manager.
They're going to know which wines follow those principles because they're the ones who intentionally put them on the shelf.
WILLIAM DAVIS (42:23)
Quite true. Well, Kristi, you said it perfectly. I find a lot of consumers that don't have a relationship with the wine shop owner or a buyer develop that relationship. No relationships. It shouldn't simply be transactional. They will be able to not only recommend certain wines, maybe have you try something that you haven't tried before where it's
not about, great, know, they're coming up to me and being super pushy because no, know every, I don't, I don't need any help. All the while, while you're looking at this sea of wines, Your head is literally spinning.
WILLIAM DAVIS (43:06)
But it's their job as well to be tasting these wines on a daily, weekly basis. know, wines change, they evolve. Every vintage is different.
Kristi Mayfield (43:18)
Exactly. Yeah, we talked about that on several previous episodes.
WILLIAM DAVIS (43:23)
there are experts in every field or every industry. And I feel that we should be using them more consistently.
Kristi Mayfield (43:33)
Yes, and truly they do love it. That's their pride and joy is the collection of wines that they have curated. I cannot tell you how much fun I've had having this conversation, William. My happy place is outside. I don't know if that's because my astrological sign is Taurus and we're just earthy people. But I'm really excited to see
things like biodynamics becoming more of a focus area, more, I'm not even going to say mainstream, but people are actively pursuing these types of wines and foods to really support not only their own health, the health of their family, but also the health of our planet. So this has been just a real pleasure, William, having you on and your passion for this topic shines through.
WILLIAM DAVIS (44:22)
My pleasure. And well said.
Kristi Mayfield (44:24)
are so happy you've joined us on this episode and would love for you to be part of our community of wine lovers on Instagram. So follow us today at Christy Everyday Sommelier. That's K-R-I-S-T-I, Everyday Sommelier, all one word. And if you want more wine tips and insights, please make sure you're in my insider list where you'll receive emails with blog posts, tips, tricks, and invitations to upcoming wine classes and events.
where you'll get to liberate your inner wine enthusiast. So just go out and register today on our website, wine-wisewize.com. with what you've learned this week, you can take your wine journey to the next level by exploring biodynamic wines. And as you've heard from our guest, William, there are other wines made with chemicals and additives, which are labeling laws don't require to be listed on the wine bottle ingredients.
So in our next episode, we're going to be highlighting five of the most common additives used in wines and why you should be aware of them. It's an episode you won't want to miss. So click the follow button on your podcast app and stay in the know. And as part of the Everyday Sommelier community, we're here to help you learn wine your way.