Kristi Mayfield (00:00)
Do you have a love-hate relationship with oak and wine? You try one and absolutely love it, but the next one tastes like a dirty ashtray. Oak can be highly controversial. Just ask my friend and listener, Ryan Moreland.

Kristi Mayfield (00:16)
Hi Kristi this is Ryan Moreland, and as a fellow lover of wine, I find it hard to decipher which styles of oak wines I like and which ones aren't my favorite. Can you help me better understand the terminology and the differences in how oak influences wine?

Kristi Mayfield (00:29)
The truth is oak and wine is wildly misunderstood. It's not just about flavor. It's also about style and texture and even the B word budget. This episode is for you if you've ever felt confused by what oak really means when it comes to wines. You've bought a bottle thinking it would be big and bold.

and it simply wasn't. Or you've been avoiding oaky wines altogether because you didn't like one particular glass. So let's fix that because oak is not the villain or the hero. It's the misunderstood supporting actor that can make or break your wine experience.

Personally, I used to think I hated oaky wines. I'd say things like, I don't want that over oak Chardonnay. But then I realized it wasn't oak. I hated. It was how the oak was being used. So in preparing for this episode, I decided to do a little investigative reporting. And I polled a group in Reddit about oak and wine. And the results surprised me quite a bit.

Just over half of the people who responded preferred quote unquote light super subtle without impacting the fruit flavor

And the moderate oak influences came in just around 30%. But what shocked me most was that only 2 % of all voters wanted that big, bold, vanilla, toasty, oaky, cedary, oaked wine. Only 2%. Now, once I started tasting wines that had a more integrated and balanced oak influence, like a silky Pinot Noir that was aged in some

neutral French oak barrels, I was hooked. That specific moment taught me not all oak is created equal and when you understand it you can unlock a whole new world of flavor in your wines. just as wine ages so too do oak barrels.

understanding where a wine barrel is in its life cycle. Is it new? Is it used? Is it neutral? This all matters because the common mistake you can make as a wine lover is assuming that every single barrel or barrel aged wine impacts the wine in the same way. So you expect vanilla and spice and when you don't get it, you feel like you're missing out on something. Why is this?

Over time the more an oak barrel is used the oak influence, the flavor influences, fade a wine that's termed neutral still imparts some influence but it's just not that big flavor influence. It will not taste oaky. So let's get into the terminology here. First and foremost new oak.

These are brand new barrels. It doesn't matter where they come from, they're brand new. And you are going to get full flavor extraction. You're going to get baking spices and vanilla and toasty and oaky flavors, as well as tannins. So these are barrels that are being used for the very first time. When you start looking at barrels that have been used two to four times,

These are going to still impart some flavor, but it's going to be a lot more subtle. Where these really impact the wine is in the texture. They're going to enhance the texture and make those wines be a little bit more complex, Now neutral oak, is those barrels that are five years older or more. And I've been to wineries where I have seen barrels being used

that are more than 50 years old, even large oak footer that are over 100 years old. There is no perceptible influence as far as the flavor of these barrels, but they do impart micro-oxygenation. Big word, but all that simply means is that they allow just teeny bits of oxygen exposure to the wines.

that enhances its flavor. So think of it more as a breathing vessel. Now, why would a winemaker use a brand new barrel versus a neutral barrel? And it really depends on the style of wine that they're trying to create. So instead of thinking all barrels are equal, Ask a wine professional, ask a sommelier.

When you say oak was this wine oaked in new or neutral oak barrels? if you love those big bold flavors seek out new oak but if you prefer that more fruit forward finesse go for wines that are aged either in neutral or even the older used barrels knowing the barrels age

is a shortcut to understanding what style of wine is in that bottle. Element number two, differences in flavors that oak imparts is simply in the type of oak it is. we typically will hear French oak or American oak There's no one specific oak that is grown

all over France. There's no one specific oak that is grown all over America but they do taste different. you may order a Cabernet Sauvignon one night that tastes smooth spicy and has some really lovely tannins to it. The next night you order another bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon and it tastes more like flavors of say coconut and dill.

and you don't understand why. I mean they were both Cabernets and both aged in oak barrels right? oak itself just like terroir in wine where the grapes are actually grown like one Chardonnay can taste

vastly different from another simply from where it's so too with oak barrels. Where it's grown and then secondarily what specific species of oak it is heavily influence how it impacts the flavor of a wine. So what can you do? And first it's understanding the differences. French oak which does grow

multiple regions of France. It's Quercis robar, Quercis petrea. In general, the oak that's grown there is a species that has a really tight fine grain it allows the barrels to impart more subtle flavor influences going back to those baking spices, silkier tannins. So this style of oak is very popular for varieties of wine.

that do well with oak, but a little bit more subtle, like a Pinot Noir or a Chardonnay. On the flip side of the Atlantic, American oak, this is particularly from the species Quercis alba. They're bolder, sweeter. The grains are bigger, and so they let in a lot more flavor like coconuts. vanilla and dill.

but this is bigger and bolder. So they are used in bolder red wines such as Tempranillo's from Rioja or Zinfandel's from Italy. There are parts of central Europe, Hungary, Slovenia that have beautiful oak barrels that are not as flashy.

not as splashy, they're more neutral and they do go perfectly well in very traditional styles of wine like you might find in Barolo with Nebbiolo. you can't assume all oak barrels impart the same kinds of flavors, they are different. So if in question and you know you like one style versus another, simply ask the origin of the oak. Where did the oak

barrels come from and that will tell you a tremendous amount of the story of the bottle of wine you're drinking. So thinking oak is oak when really the species and the origin or the terroir of that oak matters a ton. so now you are no longer overwhelmed by these wine labels when in doubt simply ask the style ask where the oak came from it's not pretentious it's simply smart wine shopping.

The third element of wine barrels that can have a tremendous difference is the size. Size matters.

The oak to wine ratio is the key formula here. So a small wine barrel, now typically these are 225 liter barrels, a small barrel is going to impart

more oak flavor and influence than a larger one because more wine is touching the sides of the barrel than in a big wine vat or wine fermenter or wine barrel. some of the terms that you're going to see in the wine industry. The first one is

Now these are the smaller wine barrels around 225 liters of wine per barrel. This is the classic style from Bordeaux to Napa Valley. It has a high oak to wine ratio and is going to impart way more flavor than something much larger. Double that size, a little more than double that size is a Puncheon which is 500 liters. It's much larger.

So the amount of wine touching the surface is lower and it will impart a much more subtle oak influence. Then when you get into those really large barrels or fermenters called Foudre which are 1000 liters or more, these are huge. They are used in very, very old traditional winemaking regions such as Germany or the Rhone Valley of France and impart

very minimal flavor but due to that micro oxygenation that we've talked about they do add texture and complexity. So the bigger the barrel the less intense the oak flavor and if you just want a whisper of oak instead of a shout go for wines that are aged in bigger size oak vessels.

Not all oak flavors in a wine do actually come from barrels. There is a little secret out there called oak barrel alternatives. And these oak alternatives are typically a quick fix to impart oak flavors into lower priced or inexpensive

cheap wines. Now the mistake you can assume is that all of the oak in these wines does actually come from barrels, but it does not. It comes from oak chips or oak staves that are put into the fermentation vessels. So a stainless steel tank filled with oak chips or staves can greatly influence in an oaky, I'm putting oaky in quotes,

way. a $10 oaked red wine might have an oak influence but it will not taste the same as if it were actually aged in an oak barrel. Sometimes they can taste a little bit artificial, a little bit too intense and not necessarily that silky subtle influence we talked about with oak barrels. And why? Because

They're not allowing any micro oxygenation. That's not what they're for. They are simply for flavor additions. with oak chips, oak staves or oak cubes is fast. It's inexpensive, but it's often less nuanced. So flipping the script on it, you can ask, was it

barrel aged or was it aged with oak chips or staves? Now I am not bashing oak chips or staves because you get the same flavor influences somewhat but if you're looking for those nuances of aging a wine in an oak barrel the micro-oxygenation the more integrated more subtle flavors then a wine with oak chips or staves is likely not for you.

There's nothing wrong with them. But you can choose accordingly. So there is confusion out in the marketplace on how that inexpensive $10 or under bottle of wine gets its oak flavoring. And now you've got the insider scoop.

and the last element of oak fluence in wine is truly related to the type or style of wine you're choosing.

So expecting your oak to taste the same in every single wine is a common mistake you can make. You expect all Chardonnay that's been oaked to be big and buttery, but you can get these lean, gorgeous Chardonnays with high acidity. And why is that? Because oak interacts differently with different grapes and also going back to the size, the age and the

variety, the species of oak are all going to influence that wine. So instead of focusing on that grape to oak relationship, let's talk about white wines. Oak in a white wine can soften some of that bright acidity. It can add a little bit of creaminess to the texture. In red wines, it can deepen that structure. It can layer in some spice and smoke flavors and aromas.

In fortified and sparkling wines, can play a totally different role. So when in doubt, ask the question, how does oak play with the specific grapes? And that's an absolutely intelligent and smart question, not a snobby one to be asking.

In white wines, you can get vanillas and baking spices, creamy textures in fortified wines like sherries and ports you're going to get nuttiness and caramelized and oxidative notes like that oxidated apple In red wines, oak barrels will give structure to the tannins. It can impart

chocolates and smoky notes, spices and different layers of flavor. Even in sparkling wines it's kind of rare but for some of the richer styles like a vintage champagne oak can bring in another layer of richness and toastiness to that champagne to that sparkling wine. So thinking that all oak influences wine the same is something we can let go of now.

So instead focus on how the oak is going to interact with the grape. It's the partnership. It's not just the oak alone that's going to shape that flavor.

common misperceptions about oak and misunderstanding of oak leads you down the path of wrong choices. You can pick the wrong line. You can waste a lot of money and most importantly be utterly disappointed.

Let's get on with myth busting. Myth? I can't even speak. Let's get on with a little myth busting. Number one, oak makes Chardonnay buttery. I just touched on that but the truth is that the buttery flavor in Chardonnay does not come from oak at all. It's diacetyl. It comes from a process called malolactic fermentation. Not at all with the oak. Misperception number two, the more oak equals a better wine. The truth is

oak can overpower a wine and we're looking for balance. Balance is key. Myth number three. If I don't like one oaky wine, I'm going to hate all oak wines. But the truth is oak styles vary wildly and don't give up on oak wines based upon one bad experience. You're not a bad wine taster. You just didn't have.

full story of what you liked Now you do. So in conclusion the next time someone says I don't like oaky wines you'll know better. Oak isn't a singular flavor that you either like or don't like. It's a tool. It's a wine making tool. It's a style choice. It's a wine making ingredient. It can show up big and bold and in your face or soft

to nearly invisible. And the key is asking better questions, noticing the clues, and understanding your flavor palette and your ideal flavor style. It's not about being right or wrong about oak and wine. It's about knowing what you love, how to find it. So let's get out there, taste with curiosity, and never be afraid to ask, what kind of oak are we talking about?

To test this out, I invite you to try two similar wines, one oaked, one un-oaked, one new barrel oaked, and one neutral barrel oaked, and compare them side by side and identify those differences either in your own home or out to dinner with some friends.

And if you enjoyed this episode or know someone who's always like, don't like oaky wines, share this episode with them, whether it's your wine loving friend, your go-to dinner party host, or that person who's still blaming Chardonnay for everything, help them see oak in a whole new light. So join me on Instagram at Kristi K R I S T I everyday sommelier. And when you find that

perfectly oaked wine, screenshot it, text it, post it or tag me on Instagram. I would love for us to share the wine knowledge we're gathering as we become more confident and curious with oaked wines.

Or if you simply want wine tips that actually stick, head over to wine-wise, w-i-z-e.com. Join my insider list. This is where I share quick and savvy tips to help you choose wine with confidence, no memorization required. And as a bonus, when you sign up, you're going to get my free guide, Wine Tips.

every wine lover should know. It's perfect for decoding labels, busting myths, and sipping smarter starting tonight. In the next episode I'm tackling food and wine pairings vegan style with a vegan chef and wine lover who's changing the game in a town that is heavy on steaks

You're going to absolutely want to tune in for this Now let's make learning about line fun and easy and learn line your way.