Umbra Ending? Summary The creator of the RPG podcast Call of Cthulhu talks about the podcast and their experience creating it. They discuss the challenges they faced with trying to incorporate too much lore and not enough direction, as well as their hopes for the future of the story and potentially reviving it in the future. In this special episode, Adam and Jeff announce that "Under the Moon" will be going on indefinite hiatus due to personal and business reasons. They will be returning to playing Dungeons and Dragons for future episodes. They discuss their experiences with Call of Cthulhu and their love for storytelling and lore. They also mention the program they use for game mastering, Obsidian, and how it helps them keep track of characters and interactions.The three discuss what they learned from the first season and share their hopes for the second season. They plan on being more comfortable and having more fun. They also want to bring in guest appearances and are open to suggestions from their audience. They talk about their excitement for the upcoming season and tease the name "Dilf Dragons." Host Wade interviews the pop rock band Imagine Dragons about their latest album "Under the Umbra Moon," inspiration and writing process behind their music, current and upcoming projects, and their social media presence. The interview was done in a creative and humorous way, with Wade jokingly stating that he tricked the band into coming to his dungeon basement for the interview. The band discusses how they want their music to bring hope and light to their listeners, and their passion for creating meaningful and impactful songs. They The hosts discuss their disappointment with their last campaign, saying it didn't turn out the way they wanted. They attribute this to their focus on the mechanics of the game rather than the story and the characters. They talk about the importance of communication with players and finding a balance between following the rules and allowing for creativity. They also mention the potential for consequences and permadeath in games and the enjoyment of taking risks and making mistakes. In the end, they acknowledge that not all campaigns will go The GM, Jeff, was originally planning for the Call of Cthulhu campaign to end with all the characters being betrayed by most of the people in their lives and having most of the girls they were trying to save sacrificed to a deity. However, the story took various twists and turns and ultimately, Jeff wanted it to end with some of the girls being saved and the bad guys thwarted. He never had a set plan for how the story would end and wanted it to be open to different Transcription Speaker 1 [00.00.15] Hey, Hey, everyone, everyone! it's It's Adam with unimaginative unimaginable. dragons. Dragons. And with With me me is is. Jeff. Jeff. What's What's going going on, on, buddy? buddy? Hey, Hey, man, man, how how are are you you doing? doing? Doing Doing pretty pretty good. good. Uh, today Today we we have have a a special special episode episode we're we're going going to to be be talking talking about about under Under the the moon. moon. What What happened happened and and what what we're we're going going to be to be doing doing going going forward. forward. Oh, so not like an after school Special special kind kind of of show. show. Just Just a a special special kind kind of of show. show. Just a special kind of show. Yeah, Oh. yeah. This All is not right, a strangers well, with candy hey, kind of situation. the The more more you you know. know. For everyone who You didn't didn't get get the to thing say we we did. did The the star star across across the the sky sky with with their their hands. hands. I'll try to add that in on post. Right. Oh, man. So how you been? Oh, you You know, know. Welp, Well, celebrating celebrating the the holidays. holidays Living with a the dream. dream. Right on. Yeah. What about you, man? Doing Oh. pretty Pretty good. good. Same Same thing. thing. Uh, Uh, we we actually actually celebrate celebrate the the holidays holidays together together. because Because we're homies, and that's it's how true. life It's goes. true. We Um, did. so So it's it's been been a a few few weeks, weeks, maybe maybe a a month month or or so so since since we we had had an an episode episode of of Under Under the the Moon Moon going going on, on, which which is is turning turning out out to to be be rather rather successful. successful. Yes, Um, surprisingly surprisingly and and not not surprisingly surprisingly at at the the same same time time. because Yeah, we were having yeah, fun with it. we were, Um, um. so So we we need need to to talk talk about about kind kind of of what's what's going going on on with with it. it. And And we we would like like to to this this is is kind kind of of an an announcement announcement and and explanation explanation episode episode we we are are going going to to make. make. Um, Um, we're we're putting putting it it on on indefinite indefinite hiatus hiatus at at the the moment. moment. Mhm, mhm. Uh, for For various various different different reasons. reasons. Uh, Um, some some personal, personal, some some business business wise. wise. Uh, this This is is definitely definitely the the first first time time we've we've ever ever done done a a podcast. podcast. So So it's that's a a learning learning curve. curve. That's That's right. right. It's It learning is. curve. It is. Uh, you Yeah. know, and And nothing nothing bad bad is is happening. happening Nothing with me. crazy Crazy is is going going on. on. We're We're just just we we want want to to do do a a soft soft reset. reset of Uh, the the the cast, cast, the the characters, characters, the the writing. writing. Everything Everything was was going going well, well, but, but uh, we we kind kind of of hit hit a a stopping stopping point point for for various various personal personal reasons, reasons, and and we we decided, decided uh, we're we're going going to to go go back back to to an an old old standard, standard, an an old old classic. classic. We're We're going going to to go go back back to to Dungeons Dungeons and and Dragons, Dragons, which which is is a a game game system system everybody everybody knows knows and and loves. loves. It's true. Sure. It's true Yeah. to to dig into that a little bit more. So really what it kind of comes down to is none of us had ever played Call of Cthulhu before, so we decided we were going to podcast for the first time ever while we were going to play a game we've never played for the first time ever. because we're geniuses Because and we we're. like to push the envelope. Yeah, exactly. Uh, Uh, so so it it didn't didn't go go great. great. Yeah, There there's was a lot a lot of of spots spots because because we we just just didn't didn't understand understand. how How to to interact interact with with the the world world. Yeah, it was a lot of learning and and a a lot lot of of a a lot lot of of frustration. frustration behind Right, the scenes. right. And, you You know, know, we we we could could have have done done. things better, could have done Other things things? different, could've done things Sure. way worse because Sure. it was definitely fun. So So in in order order to to keep keep this this fun fun for for everybody everybody in in the the cast cast and and just just have have a a good good time time all all together, together, we're we're just just going going to to go go back back to to something something we we know know and and we're we're not not going going to to stress stress about. about. That's Um, right. so So shortly shortly after after this, this, there's there's going going to to be be another another episode episode where where we we make make a a really really fun fun announcement announcement about about where where we're we're going going with with the the show. show. That That is is correct. correct. That That is is correct. correct. But But what what we're we're going going to to do do today today in in this this very very special, special, heartfelt heartfelt episode, episode, we're we're going going to to talk talk about about to to Adam Adam about about where where he he wanted wanted this this campaign campaign to to go go through through the the campaign campaign to to go, go, uh, uh, where where he he kind kind of of saw saw the the characters, characters, uh, uh, there. there. And, And, uh, uh, we'll we'll kind kind of of talk talk about about some some of of the, the, you you know, know, the the pros pros and and cons cons of, of, of, of of of it it and and kind kind of of what, what, what what what worked worked for for us us and and what what didn't didn't give give you you guys guys kind kind of of a a behind behind the the scenes scenes look look at, at, uh, uh, well, well, all all of of this this bullshit bullshit that that we, we, that that we we are are putting putting together together and, and and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. yada. So So first first things things first, first, Adam. Adam. Yes, Yes, sir. sir. How do Do you you like like being being a a DM DM on on a a podcast? podcast? So So just just so so everyone everyone knows, knows, this this is is me me getting getting condemned committed to to doing doing an an interview interview because because I I made made them them all all do do interviews interviews at at the the beginning beginning of of the the the the show. show, So, so you uh, damn skippy. so this is revenge is what this is. Um, I I like like being the a dungeon Dungeon master. Master. I I like like being a the game game master. Master. It's It's fun. fun. I I like like the the the story story writing, writing and and. I like, Like, um, um, I I've like putting played a a lot lot of of lore law in in there. there, And and I I think think that's that's kind kind of of one one of of the the first first hiccups hiccups that that we we had had with with this this. is Mhm. if If if I I, if I could could show show everybody everybody the, the the program program I I use use for, for, uh, uh, game game mastering, mastering. uh, What I had, is that program called? uh, it's obsidian. It's Obsidian. free to free Okay. to download a lot of plug ins. If If anybody's anybody's aspiring aspiring game game master master and wants wants to to get get into into it, it, definitely. definitely. Way Way to to go go to to your notes notes and and connect connect. Everything everything gives we do you like like a a lore war web. web. Very Very easy easy to to use use a a lot lot of of tutorials tutorials on on the the internet internet for or it just just an FYI, they are not a sponsor. They're they're just, just uh, they're they're just just an an excellent excellent tool, tool and and they're they're an an awesome awesome enough enough that that we we want want to to talk talk about about it. it. If If they they did did want want a to sponsor, sponsor, though, though, we would be open we to that. would definitely take it. Uh, it is an open source thing, so I I don't don't think think they they would would be be able able to to sponsor sponsor anything. anything. Oh, Um, and it's it's, it's it's akin akin to to Microsoft's Microsoft's OneNote, OneNote, but but much, much, much much better better to to use. use than one Yeah, note. I I would would say say it's it's much much more more robust, robust. robust And and it it works works. really Really well. well. It's It's designed designed specifically specifically for for with with DMs DMs. in mind, Oh yeah, the plugins plug ins and and everything. everything, And and you you can can use use it it for for school. school. You You can get do to do all all kinds kinds of of stuff. stuff. Um, Um, what what makes makes this this really really good good for for me me for for using using this this is is I'm I'm allowed. allowed. Like, Like, it it gives gives me me, a uh, a place place to to make make an an entry entry for for a a character, character, and and then then that that will will link link to to whatever whatever else else it it hyperlinks hyperlinks and and it it just just auto auto links, links. everything. Everything, Like like every every interaction interaction a character character has, has. it'll Go back. backstory Sorry. backtrack Backtrack that. that. That That way way I I can can keep keep track track of of who who does does what what to to who, who, who who talks talks to to whom, who, um, um, all all that that kind kind of of stuff. stuff. So So when when the the characters characters inevitably inevitably don't don't read read their the character character sheets sheets anymore, anymore. don't But. remember anything, I can give them a brief history lesson before we start the episode, which is really fun. That is nice. That Uh, we've is also nice. used it for our home, Mhm. uh, Mhm. Dungeons and Dragons games, which has been really, Mhm. really Very cool. cool. Um, Um but but yeah, yeah I I think think that that was was kind kind of of one one of of the the issues issues we we had had with with the the format format that that we we were were doing. doing. I I had had so so much much lore more built built in, in. Right. we We never never touched touch literally them literally like like 5% 5% of of what what was was going going on. on. Um, Um, so so there there was was so so much much more more for for everyone everyone to to kind kind of of get get into. into. But But they they were were all all worried worried about about making making sure sure the that mechanics mechanics were were right right and and what what they they were were doing. doing. And And it's it's just just a to new be world world that that they're they're in. in. So So a a lot lot of of the the cool, cool, fun fun stuff stuff that that we we had had planned planned wasn't wasn't going going to to come come to to fruition. fruition. And And that that was was one one of of those those things things that that I I want want to to say say is is mildly mildly disappointing, disappointing, but but it it was was a a learning learning curve curve for for me me to to kind kind of of help help the the get get the the characters characters we ready need to to go. go. So So I I think think the at at this this point, point, the the amount amount of of story story I I wanted wanted to to put put in in there there was was untenable. untenable. So. Sure. Do Do you you think think it it would would have have helped helped if if maybe maybe you if if we we would would have have been been on on some some sort sort of. of. Well, Well, I I mean, mean, you've you've got got your your two, two, two two styles styles of of games, games, you've you've got got your your open open world world and and you you got got your your linear. winner. Would Would it it have have helped helped if if you you maybe maybe have have made made it it a a little little bit bit more more linear? linear? Would Would you you have have been been able able to, to, uh, uh, squeeze squeeze in in some some more more lower lore that that way? way, Or or do do you you or or do do you you actually actually build build all all that that lore? lower? I'm I'm sorry, sorry, I, I, I I hope hope oh, that was terrible. So. Or do you you build build all all that that lore lower and and then then use use that that where, where, where where we we run run into into it it like like it it is is totally totally open open world world where where we we could could just just be, be, you you know, know, a a breath breath of of the the wild wild, where where you you could could beeline be lying right right to to the the end end of of the the game. game if So you wanted that's to, kind and of like the argument when people are getting to the the game, game mastering, master. um, railroading Railroading versus versus the open open world, world, right? right? And there's There's pros pros and and cons cons to to both. both. Um, Um, now now, railroading, railroading, you you could could definitely definitely. I I could could shoehorn shoehorn in in anything, anything, anywhere, anywhere, ever. ever. And And there there was was a couple a couple times times I I was was able able to to do do that. that. And, And um, I'm sure, you you know, know, through through the the interactions interactions of of the the characters characters. like, oh, there's this, So oh, there's there's this, this, uh, um, open open world world is is definitely definitely a a lot lot harder, harder, but but it it gives gives you you a a little little more more freedom freedom to to be be like, like, oh, oh, you you tripped tripped over over a a rocket. rocket. It It has has to to be be the the most most magical magical rock rock in in the the world. world. Like, Right, you right. can make more randomized encounters Counters like like that. that. Mhm. Uh, Uh, for for our group this this first first time, time, I I think think I I should should have have tried. tried. I I was was trying trying to to go go more more open open world, world but fair, but I I think think everyone everyone needed needed more more direction direction being. and That's that's new. new. I I should should have have treated treated this this more more like. like, Not not that that you you guys guys were were new new players, players but but new in to the the system. system I I probably probably should should have have put put more more constraints constraints or or reins reins on on it. it. Well, Well, sure. sure. And I I mean, mean, being being that that we we I I mean, mean, all all of of us us had had played played D&D D&D or or played played a a variation variation. of Of that that in in the the past. past. Um, Um, I I would would understand understand. that That makes makes perfect perfect sense sense. why Why you'd you want want to to go go open open the world, world, but but I I just just feel feel like like maybe maybe you're you're right. right. Either Either the, the, uh, uh, I, I, I I think think that that we we needed needed a a little little guidance guidance because. because. Yeah, Yeah, I I mean, mean, to to this this system, system, we we were were all all truly truly newbies. newbies. Oh, yeah. So There's, uh, there's there's definitely definitely times times when when we we were, were. like, pausing Causing the the episode episode or right between episodes. episodes. We We were were watching watching YouTube YouTube videos videos to to get get back back up up on on the the rules. rules, And and then. then then Then we we definitely definitely forgot forgot how how some some of of the mechanics the cannons work. work. So Sure, sure. the 100% 100% on on us. us. Uh, Uh, but but as as for for, like like, railroading railroading everybody, everybody, like, like, I I don't don't mind mind doing doing it. it. Um, Um, again, again, I I think think I I was was trying trying to to use use your your guys guys expertise expertise in in Dungeons Dungeons and and Dragons Dragons and and translate translate it it to to something something new, new. when And I I could could have have just just put put you you guys guys in in a a corridor corridor and let to you run run with with it it and and react react to to whatever whatever I I had, had, right? right. No, that makes So sense. That that makes makes sense. sense. Uh, Uh, so so we we talked talked about about that. that. We We we we know know that that that that that that was was a a mistake. mistake. Do Do you you think think that that we'll will ever ever go go back back to to Call college of Cthulhu or do if, if uh, we we start start a Patreon Patreon and and people people pay pay us us enough enough money, money? we would Definitely. definitely love to revisit calc Okay. and All maybe right. even finish out this, uh, campaign. Maybe finish that campaign Yeah. out or maybe start a new one. Yeah. So So with with that that said, said, since since there there is is no no more more episodes episodes to to share, share. Fair enough. what What did did you you think? think? Where Where did did you you want want to to see see this this story story going? going? Where Where was was your your where where was was your your your your plan? plan? What What was was your your future future looking looking like like here? here? So So we we we we kind kind of of constrained constrained ourselves ourselves. up. Again. Again, none None of of these these things things I I think think are are mistakes mistakes is is just just like a the learning learning curve. curve. We We were were trying trying to to shoot shoot for for 30 30 to to 45 45 minute minute episodes, episodes uh, coming coming out out once once a a week. week, And and we we were were limiting limiting ourselves ourselves to, to, I I think think it it was was like like between between 12 12 and and 24 24 episodes. episodes. I I think think we we were were shooting shooting for for 12. 12, 12. Yeah. So we were rapidly approaching Approaching that that, the the the issue issue started started coming coming in in like like trying trying to to condense condense everything everything into into a a climactic climactic battle. battle. So So we we try try to to make make it it like like a a three free act act thing. thing. Okay. Um, Um, first first, the the the first first three three episodes episodes where where you you guys guys come come together, together, the the second second three three episodes, episodes, we're we're supposed supposed to to be be like, like, okay, okay, this this is is kind kind of of weird. weird. Let's Let's let's let's make make a a beeline beeline for for this. this, The uh, the following following third third, was we're supposed supposed to to be be like, like, okay, okay, now now we're we're going going after after the the enemy. enemy. And And the the last, last, uh, um, the the last last little little bit bit was was supposed supposed to to be be like like, the the culmination culmination battle. battle. And And then then, prologue. Uh, uh, we we got got to to the the point point where where you you guys guys are were finally finally starting starting to to coalesce coalesce into, into, like, like, okay, okay, this this has is gone kind on of the the mission. mission These these girls girls were were missing missing. these These guys. guys, These these random random old old dudes dudes were were pulling strings. stranded We don't onto know what what they they were. were, Um, um, we we didn't didn't know, know, like, like, what what some some of of the the characters characters were. were. There There's, was, like, like, some some spooky spooky characters characters in in there there that that we we want want to to make make a a big big deal deal about. about. Um. Um, but, But yeah, yeah, uh, I I think think we're where where I I wanted wanted it it to to end end up. up Was was you you guys guys basically basically getting getting betrayed betrayed by, by, like, like, everybody everybody in in your your life? life. Like, Like, we we already already knew knew that. that. Kind Kind of of like like your. your Your your landlord landlord was will starting start to to be be shady, shady. right? Um, We knew the the the the older older guy, guy the, that. um, the The guy guy from from Eastern Eastern Europe Europe, was right? definitely shady. Oh, yeah. Uh, we We knew knew the the mobster mobster that that Dustin's Dustin's character characters is involved involved with, with. with shady, Yeah. and Dustin, who's character to make sure everybody he knew was a mobster. was, in fact, a mobster, regardless of how How much much he he did did want want him him to to be be a a mobster, mobster. he He he was was, a mobster. in fact, A a mobster, mobster. yes. Uh, and And then then it it was was going going to to be be Neil's Neil's character's, character's, um, um, boss boss was was going going to to be be a part a part of of it. it. And And these these guys guys were were all all together together trying trying to to sacrifice sacrifice his his girls girls to to someone someone in in a a deity deity to to basically basically take take over over the the world, world. but But they they thought thought they're they going were to a get good power. power. Like, Like, basically basically you're you're you're you're Indiana Indiana Jones, Jones, Ark Ark of of the the covenant, covenant, kind kind of of like like we're we're getting getting ultimate off to a power, power, but but it melts their face off, oh backfire got kind it. of thing. Okay, okay. Okay. So So so your typical that that kind kind of of story. story. Yeah. That's That's that's excellent. excellent. Um, Uh, I, I'm I'm sad sad that that we we did did not get get to to watch watch the the watch. watch the The bad bad guys guys faces faces. melt. No. Yeah. That would I have don't been great know exactly if they were going to to melt melt themselves themselves or or something something bad bad was was going going to to happen. happen. Like, maybe Mhm. like an inversion or Or something something like like that. that. Like, but Yeah. something bad and gross because it's called Cthulhu. Well Well, yeah yeah, sure. sure. That That that that makes makes sense. sense. Sorry, Sorry. everybody. My phone was on. Uh oh Uh, I was naughty. no they Naughty. Uh, uh but, but yeah, yeah that that was was basically basically what what was was going gonna to happen. happen. I I don't don't want want to to give, give like, like too too many many details details if if we we ever ever go go back back. to To it. it. But But I I think think at this this point, way, if if we're we're spoiling spoiling everything, everything, we'll we'll probably probably just just do do something something completely completely different. different. Um, Um, yeah. yeah. You You know, know, honestly, honestly, I I feel feel like, like, um, uh, I I feel feel like like we're we're probably probably going going to to end end up up doing doing something something different. different. I'd I'd love love to to go go visit visit Call Colin of Cthulhu again, again, like like you you said, said, as as a a Patreon Patreon goal. goal. Uh, Uh, but, but, um, um, on and this this story. story. Yeah, Yeah. I think the story, like, No, I I know, know, I I definitely definitely think think sparks sparks could can come come back. back. I I mean, mean, he, he, uh, uh, from from what what I I heard, heard was was the the greatest greatest character character in in the the show. show. That's That's what what everyone everyone is is saying. saying. Oh, Yeah, yeah. We we have have tons tons of, of uh, fan fan mail. mail. Thank you Tons. guys for supporting, Yes, yes. uh, saying sparks was Um, by was far the one, the greatest one. Yeah, like, maybe maybe not not the the tallest, tallest. but, uh, Well, well, never never, the tallest, but but never never, the tallest. never the tall. Damn it. Oh, Uh, uh, but but but but the the story story itself, itself. Yeah, I think the story is cooked, uh, uh, you you know, know. stick a fork in it. Right. It's kind of done So. kind of thing. So So where where did did you you want want to to see see it it ultimately ultimately end? end, ultimately end? Uh, Um, so so it it kind kind of of went went through through a a bunch bunch of of different different iterations. iterations. Uh, Uh, at at one one point point, we we were were talking talking about about making making sparks. sparks Your your character, character. Uh, uh, betray but everybody. we were we were going to make them the, the, The not not the so big big baddie, daddy, but but basically basically assistant assistant to to the big daddy. baddie. Yeah. So, Uh, with, uh, uh, the the introduction introduction of of. the the The supernatural supernatural character characters, that yet was stuck in your head, we were we we're were toying toying with with the the idea idea of of making making you it evil. evil. That is correct. Um, yeah. Yeah, I I really really wanted wanted everyone everyone to to get get more more into into the the the the paranormal paranormal aspect aspect of of it. it We just couldn't and make make the the the leap leap to of some some of of the the characters characters wanting wanting to to see see what what was was in in front front of of them. them. So So that's that's that that was was definitely definitely one one of of them. them. But But I I think think at at the the very very end, end, um, um, you you were were going going to to save say at at least least a a couple couple of of the the girls, girls. if not Mhm. all of them, Yep. and then hopefully Hopefully thwart the the the bad bad guys guys from from coming coming in. in. But But again, again roll roll the the dice. dice. Like Like if if you you guys guys don't don't make make it any in time, time the the bad bad guy guy comes comes out. out And and that's that's, that's that's one one of of the the fun fun things things about about being being a a dungeon dungeon master master or or game game master master is is it it doesn't doesn't have have to to work work out out as as a a plan. plan. I I have have a a lot lot of of like like skeletal skeletal ideas ideas and and a starting start to to finish, finish, but but I I never never put put all all my my eggs eggs in in one one basket. basket. I I know know everyone's everyone's going got to to play play the the way way they they want want to to play. play. I I know know everyone's everyone's going got to to make make the the story story the the way way they they want want it. it. It It could could end end good. good. It It could could end end bad. bad. Either Either way, way, it's it's going going to be to be fun far down down the the road. road. So So again, again, for for aspiring aspiring people people that that want want to to get get into into it, it, um, um, don't don't don't don't hold hold on on to to the the story story too too tightly. tightly. Let Let it it happen happen the the way way it's it's going going to to happen. happen. And And if if it's it's victorious, victorious, cool. cool. If If it's it's sad, sad, cool. cool. If If it's it's anything anything in in between, between, it's it's it's it's totally totally going going to to be be fine. fine. It's It's just just about about having having fun, fun. having a good time Yeah. And and honestly, honestly, like, like if if it it ended ended up up where where you you guys guys just just died died and and the the world world got got taken taken over over by, by like, like, uh, uh. otherworldly, otherworldly Otherworldly creatures, creatures that that would would have have been been amazing amazing to to freaking have been witness. witnessing And you you guys guys being be all all pissed pissed off off at the at other the other end end. table. That would have been amazing. Honestly, Honestly, that that would would have have been. been. I I mean, mean, yeah, yeah, we we would would have have all all been, been pissed oh, I've at been the end laughing of that, my but ass yeah. off if they all died Yeah. like horrible deaths. I would just been, like, cackling the whole time. Right. It'd been great. Um, I I love love it. I I encourage encourage that, that, I I call call it it like like two two things things happen. happen. One One of of them, them, uh, Jeff, Jeff, is was very very good good about about it. I it, call called it Bill Bill and and Ted's, Teddy, uh, uh, from for Bill Bill and Ted's Ted's Excellent Excellent Adventure. Adventure. They'll just, Just like, like throw four things things into to me me that that I have I have to to write write into for the the story. story. Like Like Scott Scott. Bo's character Yep, is yep. one of them. Uh, I love that. Throw those monkey wrenches Wrenches into into it. it. Uh, Uh, the the other other thing thing is is just just them them making making just just horrendous horrendous mistakes mistakes and and bad bad calls. calls. I'd I'd be be like, like, you're you're super super sure, sure, and and then then they'll they'll do do it, it, and and then then bad bad things things happen. happen And and that it just just does does my heart so so well. well. Like, Like, I I don't don't ever ever want want to to kill kill off off a character. a character. I don't I don't ever ever want want to to get get anybody me away stuck stuck in in a a trap. trap. But But if if they they do do something something completely completely dumb, dumb, it it just just makes makes me me so so happy. happy. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've, uh. uh. Adam, Adam, I've I've done done that that to to Adam Adam twice twice now now. Yeah, in in the the same same campaign. campaign. And And it it was was not not a a campaign campaign that that we've we've aired, aired, but. but it He was was in in our our personal personal campaign. campaign. Uh, Uh, one one time time I I tried tried to to jump jump off off of of an an airship airship and and then, then, uh, uh, and and then then use use a, a, like, like, a a short short distance distance teleport teleport spell spell to to teleport teleport into into a a building, building, uh, uh, that that I I was was falling falling from. from. Um, Uh, that good. didn't that That didn't didn't go go well. well. Good times. Yeah, Good times for everybody. yeah. And And then then I, I, um, uh, basically basically a a giant, giant, horrible horrible monster. monster. I I thought, thought, oh, oh, I I can can run run away away from from it it by by using using that that same same teleport teleport spell spell and and teleporting teleporting behind behind it it and and trapped trapped myself. myself. So, So, I I mean, mean, yeah, yeah, you you can, can, uh, uh, you you can can make make dumb dumb mistakes, mistakes, and and Adam Adam will will let let you you make make those. those I dumb will mistakes. encourage you Yes. to make it. I I love love it it so so much much when when people, people, like, like, they they try try to to be be creative creative with with what what they're they're doing doing and and they're they're thinking thinking outside outside the the box, box, for for better better or or worse. worse. And And like, like specifically, specifically, if if it's it's, I I don't don't want want to ever to call call it it a a dumb dumb idea idea. because it's never dumb. Like Like everyone's everyone's just just having having fun, fun. right? But But anytime anytime somebody somebody does does a a I'm I'm going gonna to say say controversial controversial move move or, or, you you know, know, one one of of those those risky risky to to get get the the biscuit biscuit kind kind of of things, things. I I say say do do it. it now. I'm But like, yeah, yeah, man, man, it's it's gonna gonna be be great. great. Just Let's do do it. it. Roll Roll your the dice. dice. It's It's freaking freaking awesome. awesome. Yeah, Yeah. no No problems problems are are gonna going to happen happen at at all. all. Make it happen. And then of course, problems happen. And I I just just laugh laugh, a laugh. Laugh. well, Well sure. sure. Yeah. Well, Well, yeah. yeah. I I mean, mean, because because the the problems problems happen happen, and it was funny. Yeah, it's that's always always funny. funny. And here's Here's the the thing. thing. If If you you should should talk talk to to your your players players before before you you get get into into this, this, like like see see how how how how deadly deadly and and how how much much permadeath permadeath there there is is in in there. there. Right. Right. Like Like I I don't don't mind mind trying trying to to save save a a character, character. like Like if if that's that's the the game game everybody everybody wants wants to to play. play. Like, Like I I don't don't mind mind Deus Ex Machina knocking out or anything, anything, but but I I also also think think like like consequences consequences are are super super cool, cool, right? right? And Oh you just yeah. got to figure out what that level of Of consequence consequence is is going going to to be be like. like, If if somebody somebody messes messes up, up, is is there there a a way way to to bring bring them it back? back, Or or is is there there a a way way that, that I like like you, you, you you fell fell out out of of this this building building and and now now you you you you Assassin's Assassin's Creed Creed it it into into like like a a stack stack of of hay hay or or something something, right? like that, right? Right. Um, yeah. Yeah. Just Just whatever whatever game game you you want want. kind Kind of of want want to to get get into it to and just you. You talk talk to to your your players players about about it. it, And and some some players players are are better better with with things things than and others. others. Some Some people people like like permadeath permadeath and and some some people people don't. don't. And And it's it's okay okay to, to, you you know, know, make make sure sure everyone everyone gets gets what what they they want want out out of the of. game. Well, Well, sure. sure. And And I I mean, mean, you you can can have have permadeath, but but you you can can also also do do things things like like what what you're you're. talking Talking about, about where where even even though though you you have have permadeath, permadeath, if if somebody somebody does does something something stupid, stupid, you you can can still still let let them them do do it, it consequent with them them for for it. it. But But if if you're you're not not ready ready to to kill kill the the character character off off yet yet as as the the DM, DM, you you ultimately ultimately have have the the call call on on what what magic magic can can happen. happen. Oh, definitely. I also don't like Like when when people people fail fail rolls. rolls. I I don't don't like like giving giving them them nothing. nothing. I I don't don't like like the the you don't know shit. shit. I I mean, mean, sometimes sometimes that that happens, happens, but but really really I I enjoy enjoy giving giving giving giving something something like like the. the the So perception it's more of check. a scale thing. Yeah. So like in a perception Perception. now Now if if you you roll rolled the a one one on on perception, perception. Yeah. If if you you roll roll two two terribly, terribly like like you you don't don't know know shit, shit. Right. right? That's just It's kind kind of of like like the the way way it it is. is. You You're just just oblivious have to to do it. it. But But like like for for the the most most part, part, like like you you can can give give somebody somebody something. something, right? That's not Well, gonna hurt I mean, anybody. there's There's always always going going to to be be some, some, some some level level of of just just basic basic human human. reaction Yeah. that That you you gotta got to give give them, them, even even if if it's it's not not anything anything useful useful or or heavily heavily useful, useful, they're they're going going to to notice notice something something at at least least a a little little bit. bit. You You would would hope hope. Yeah. And I think the one one of of the the more more problems problems, I I guess guess, is is like like circling circling back, back, you you know, know, I I said said circle circle back. back. So you're going Um, to have to take it. But but we're we circle circle it back back to to, I I think, think, uh, um, we we were were too too worried worried about about making making sure sure the the the characters characters had have the the right right vibe vibe and and the new the system system that that some some of of the the investigators investigators didn't didn't really really want want to to investigate investigate. a Oh, whole lot. no, No, that that is is very very true. true. Uh, there There wasn't wasn't a a lot lot of of asking asking questions questions and and and and things things like like that that and and that. that. And And that's that's really really what what that that comes comes down down to to. is I I think think it it was was just just not not sure sure of of the the mechanics mechanics of of the the game. game. So So you're you're not not really really sure sure what what to to ask, ask, what what not not to to ask. ask. And And instead instead of of treating treating it it like like we we were were people people trying trying to to truly truly figure figure something something out, out, we we were were trying trying to to do do it it in in a a way way that that we we were were also also still still following following whatever whatever rules rules we we thought thought we were supposed to follow. and which we were making up. So it Yeah. wasn't so much Call of Cthulhu as much as we were playing ball for Lulu. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. exactly. But, uh, Ball Lulu was We're still still really really fun fun. for For me. me, Um, again, again, the the story story kind kind of of was was slightly slightly untenable, untenable and and we we couldn't couldn't really really do do anything anything. I I don't don't think think we we could could have have made made to it to the the finish finish line line the the way, way the where way we we want wanted it to to make make it it to to the the finish finish line. line. So So I I think think pulling the play and this this happens happens in in normal normal campaigns campaigns. anyways, Anyways, like um, you don't typically typically see see that that in in podcast. podcast. People People were like, like, oh, oh, we we fucked fucked up up and and we're we're moving moving on. on. Right? Right. But that's That's the the thing thing is, is, is is yeah. yeah, And in everyday everyday campaigns campaigns, rarely rarely do do campaigns campaigns go go from from beginning beginning to to end. end. Yeah. And Like I mean, when they do, it's it's amazing. amazing. Mhm. Uh, but yeah, Yeah. it's It's totally totally okay okay if if like, people people aren't aren't enjoying enjoying themselves themselves or or it's it's not not going going the the way way you you want. want. It's It's okay okay to to start start a a new new game. game. It's It's like like playing playing any any video video game game or or anything anything else else you you just just want want to to avoid, avoid, like like the the monopoly monopoly flip flipping in the the table table and and ruining ruining everything everything. kind of thing, Right, right? exactly. And And that's that's and and I I think think that that I I think think going going into into D&D, D and D that's, that's uh, going going to to give give us us into into that that realm, realm, it's it's going going to to give give us us a a little little bit bit more more control control over over that, that. because Because even even if if we we decided, decided, you you know, know, we we wanted wanted to to switch switch things things up, up, you you I I mean, mean, there's there's lots lots of of ways ways to to do do that that while while still still keeping keeping you you in in the the same same general general realm realm and and being being able able to to tie tie back back to to it it if if you you need need to, to. Oh yeah. And that's the thing. Like, like, uh, uh, so so if if you you use use a a module, module, if if you you don't don't use use a a module, module. But you you can can use use pick pick and and choose choose from for anything anything that that you you want. want, And right? it can start Start with with one one story story and and end with do something something completely completely else. else. Um, Um, it's it's like like real real life, life. uh, Um, in in the the regards regards of of the the characters, characters, the the player player characters, character is, their the decisions decisions will will take take them him into into a a different different direction. direction. You You could can be be trying trying to to track track down down a a giant giant dragon, dragon, and and then then you you get get caught caught up up in, in, I I don't don't know, know, succession succession war war in in some some kingdom. kingdom Somewhere somewhere. along the lines, Right. you You don't don't always always have have to to finish finish every every thread thread. you You could could always always make make a a callback callback to. to You'd be be like, like, oh oh man, man, if we we only always stopped thought this this dragon. dragon This, was like like group a group of of people people wouldn't would have died. died. Like, Like, that's that's a a thing. thing, right? But you can always move on. You You don't don't have have to to be be so so stringent stringent with with whatever whatever you're you're doing. doing, Like, as as long long as as you guys you guys are are having having fun, fun. just So let let the the game game happen. happen. If If it it becomes becomes too too tedious tedious for for anybody, anybody, including including the Dungeon Dungeon master, Master. Um, uh, any any of of the the players, players, it's it's okay okay to to restart restart and and try try something something new, new, because because I I think think most most people people like like making making characters characters and and starting starting out at like nobody the likes like level level one. one, But but like, like. starting Right. out is usually really fun for everybody. Yeah, Yeah. no, I agree, I agree. So So we've we've done done this. this. We're getting Yeah. ready Ready to to move move on on to to season season two two? or Yeah. season Season one one. part Part D date, part Paddy, whatever whatever you you want want to to call call it. it. What What things things are are you you kind kind of of hoping hoping from from this this second second season? season? I I think, think um, uh, going going back back to to Dungeons Dungeons Dragons, Dragons, everyone's everyone's going going to to be be more more comfortable. comfortable. But The the biggest biggest thing thing for for me me is is we we we we have have so so much much fun fun when when we we play play together together in and that our personal person games. gets. So So getting getting back back to to that, that, I I think think everyone everyone saw saw that that at in the the beginning beginning of of of Under November. the Ember Moon. And And then then we we started started to like like, trying try to to do do stuff stuff we we didn't didn't understand understand or or we we didn't didn't really really care care to to really really do learn better. the Right. way we should have. So So going going back back to to just just being being able able to to play, play, it's it's like like riding riding a a bike, bike just because everyone everyone going goes back back to to having having fun, fun and talking talking shit to to each each other. other. I I think think that's that's that's that's more what I telling tell the a fun fun story. story. Having Having a a good good time time with of the the game game, and I just just hanging hanging out, out it's for kind of what I'm looking for. sure. Sure. So. So. So So we're we're not not. okay, Okay, I I got got you you. Uh, I. are Are you you planning planning on on still still being being rigid rigid with with episode episode count, count? or Or are are we we going going to to just just kind kind of of treat treat this this season season more more of of a a less less of of a a season, season, maybe maybe more more of of a a campaign? campaign? We're We're just just going going to to run run it it until until we we think think it it naturally naturally hits hits an an end end. or. Or so I think in my brain, my mental mind, Um, my mind's eye, um, I I don't don't want want to to put put a a episode episode count count on on it it to to begin be given. with I at love all. it, Right? I love I think it that was too constricting. constricted, Like like trying trying to to shoehorn shoehorn and and pace pace everything everything in the the right right way. way. Uh, Um, I I'd rather rather just just organically organically pace pace itself itself out. out. And And if if we we run run out out of of material, material, we'll we'll just just add add more more stuff stuff in. in. If If we we have have too too much much material, material, then then we'll we'll trim trim the the fat fat. a little bit. I I don't don't want want to to do do that. that. I I also also want want to to take take the the episode episode from from like like 30 30 minutes minutes minimum minimums to and being be like like a a minimum minimum of of 45 45 minutes. minutes. That Okay, way we we can can accomplish accomplish more more in in one one episode, episode. have I have more more interactions, interactions and and not not try try to to rush rush through through from from beginning beginning to to end. end. I think Sure, that'll be a little bit sure. better. That That makes makes sense. sense. That That makes. makes sense. No, Yeah, that's that's that's that's all all really really good good stuff. stuff. I'm, I'm. uh, I'm I'm excited excited to to be be involved involved in in the season season two. two. Yeah. And And again, again the the next next episode episode we we do, do we're we're going going to to probably probably talk talk a a little little bit bit more more about about season season two, two, what what we're we're going going to to get get into. into. And And and oh, the. I want to tease the name so bad. Dustin You came came up up with with such such a a great great. name. You know I want what? Go go ahead. ahead. Go Go ahead ahead. and And tease it. we're we're going to be bringing you You guys guys. Dilf Dragons. Dragons I I loathe loathe and and fear fever. the Oh, Dilf. that That sounds sounds amazing. amazing. Yes. So So is is this, this, uh, uh, is is this this campaign? campaign, You you know, know, I I for for a a second second there, there I was was like, like, well, well, should should we we just just start start talking talking about about, it? um, Kind of want to. I kind of want to, but I think we We should should leave leave it it for for the the next next. announcement. The next? But that's enough teaser for No. right now, Steve I think. are freezing out. All All right, right, all all right. right. That's That's fair, fair. that's That's fair. fair. So So we we talked talked about about things things we've we've learned learned about about in in the the first first season season and and things things we're we're going going to to try try to to work work on on better. better. Um, Um, we we talked talked about about some some of of the the stuff stuff that, that, uh, uh, we we want want to to do do differently differently in in season season two. two. Uh, I I think think one one of of the the big big things things that that we we had talked talked about about doing doing is, is, is is some some more more guest guest appearances. appearances. Oh, gosh. Yeah, We're we're definitely definitely going going to to start start bringing bringing in in some some people people that that are are going going to to be be in in for, for, uh, uh, we'll we'll see see. it, maybe Maybe an an episode, episode, maybe maybe 3 3 or or 4 4 episodes, episodes. we We don't don't know. know. Yeah, they could Um. be recurring player characters or Mhm. we can make them voiced NPCs. Exactly. Everything I mean seems to be like it would be a good time. yeah, Yeah, definitely. definitely. Definitely. And And as as always, always, we're we're open open to to hear hear your your guys's guys's suggestions, suggestions. wants, Wants needs, needs, desires. desires. Yeah. Hit us up on our socials. Um, Um, we've mentioned those in and some some of of the the other other ones, ones. uh, on On podcasts. podcasts? So you'll you'll get all Yep. of our stuff on there. On podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. You'll You see see everything everything there. there? We're We're on on Facebook, Facebook, Instagram. Instagram. And And I I think think that's that's it it right right now. now. Yeah, we're we're building a small cult following. Yeah, So. yeah. Yeah. Soon the empire will grow To to. To to endless endless bounds. vines. Great heights. Great Great heights. heights. Yes. Well, Well, I I appreciate appreciate this. those. Any Any other other questions? questions? Anything Anything you you want want to to talk talk about? about? You You know, know, I, uh, uh, I I appreciate appreciate you you taking taking a a second. second. And And let let me me ask ask you you just just a a few few questions. questions. This This was was totally totally off off of of the the off off the the cuff. cuff. This This was was a a trick trick. I I asked asked you you to to come come have have lunch lunch with with me. me. Yes. Was And then actually we. bringing you here to to to To do do this this. I'm actually stuck in his dungeon dungeon basement, basement tied tied to to a the wall. wall. And this This is is the the only only way way I I think think I I can can get get out out of of it is this by by doing doing this. this. Luckily, Luckily, he's he never never asked asked any any personal personal questions. questions. And And, we're um, going to we're going to call it a victory. we're going to We're we're going going to to call call it it a a win win for for him him today. today. Maybe, Maybe, maybe, maybe maybe he'll he'll actually actually get get food food today. today. We'll see. We'll see how It's that goes. been a week. Yeah. If you guys can see me, I'm blinking really hard for help. It's It's not not true. true. All All right, guys, right, guys, well, thanks thanks for for joining joining us us here here on, on uh, the this special special episode episode of of one Unimagined of Dragons very special and the very last episode episode of of Under Under the the Umbra Umbra Moon. Moon. Have a good day, guys. Later, everyone.