Maximalist Life

Ep 18 - Unpopular Opinion: Hustle Culture Isn't Always Toxic

• Brianna Gamble & Tamika Stringfellow

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Brianna and Tamika are keeping it real in this episode as they unpack the truth about hustle culture — and why it actually takes years of consistent work to build a business that commands premium prices and freedom.

They’re not here to glamorize burnout — but they are here to challenge the idea that working hard is always toxic. 👀

Here’s what they’re diving into:

  • ⚖️ The difference between toxic hustle culture and the necessary grind when you're just starting out
  • 💸 Why new entrepreneurs can’t expect premium prices without putting in the reps and building trust
  • 📊 How they used data (not feelings) to make pricing decisions that helped them pivot during tough economic seasons
  • 💁‍♀️ Why standing out with a strong personal brand matters way more than chasing trends
  • 🤝 The real reason Brianna hires for personality fit over technical skill — and how it’s helped her team thrive
  • 🧭 How to define what success actually means for you in business (spoiler: it's not just money)
  • 🛑 The truth about “slowing down” — and how it took Brianna a whole decade of hustle before she could ease off the gas
Speaker 1:

Here we are.

Speaker 2:

Okay, here we are today. Here we are Welcome. Welcome to.

Speaker 1:

Okay, Welcome to Maximus Life Turkeys. Maximus Turkeys Because I went. Oh, I was like what my son calls it Maximus, life Maximulus Turkeys.

Speaker 2:

Because I went la, la, la, la, la, la. Oh, I was like what my son calls it Maximus, life Maximus. Sometimes I do that too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's really kind of a tongue twister. Maximulus, yeah, maximalisa.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we are All right, wow Okay. Here we go Good morning Good morning.

Speaker 1:

We're starting a little bit later. This is better.

Speaker 2:

We're a little more lively at 838 in the morning on a Saturday than we are at 645. Oh man.

Speaker 1:

I got home late last night, though, really late, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you barely slept, mm-hmm, so you're going to be dying later.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I figured I mm-hmm so you're gonna be dying later. Yeah, I figured I'd just take a nap. Good, that's the. Work hard, play hard which we're talking about today.

Speaker 2:

We are yeah I'm excited we're gonna talk about boss bitch hustle culture today which I hate boss bitch. I hate boss bitch, yeah, but we're gonna talk about it let's talk about it, okay, yeah, so welcome to maximalist life. I'm your host, brianna, and I'm tamika, and we have had a lot of shit going on. Yeah, so much, too much. So if you have noticed that we have not had a whole bunch of episodes rolling out lately, it's because we have been maximalizing so hard we can't even keep up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, brianna's been maximalizing right through her immune system and she just keeps getting sick, so that's part of it too.

Speaker 2:

That is part of anytime she travels she gets sick I do, and sometimes it's just like a 48 hour thing, like a little like you. You get these like body aches and the sinus stuff and then it kind of like goes away after two or three days yeah, and then sometimes it's like a full-blown thing for like a whole week or so yeah, it's a problem it was just a couple days this week, but then a couple weeks ago my last trip I got sick yeah so it's tough I think she needs to take her tonsils out or something I do, but I yeah, I didn't want to do it on the um, my insurance.

Speaker 2:

I had to go through the hospital on base, so it was a military training hospital and I did not want to do it there yeah so I gotta go somewhere else that'll be fun.

Speaker 1:

So I'm training. Take your tonsils out.

Speaker 2:

I had, so I use an explenon for my birth control, so that's like the implant in your arm. And one time when I went to get like a new one put in, the guy was training and he was so scared he was literally shaking oh, no he was so scared and I'm the one getting stabbed with this thing in my arm, you know and he literally, like he was so nervous, and they have the other doctors in there, you know yeah, but he like didn't even remember, like he didn't remember to put his gloves on, oh, perfect.

Speaker 2:

And they were like okay, don't forget your gloves, and he was trying to put them on. And then you put one on like backwards, like inside out oh god like just fine, just leave it, it's fine, whatever. And he was like apologizing to me and he's like I'm so sorry. And I was like that's so weird like luckily I had already gotten one before yeah so you knew what to expect yeah, and I was just like whatever, just, and I'm not weirded out by needles or anything.

Speaker 2:

So I was like, whatever, it's fine, do what you got to do. And I was like, oh, it's your first one, congrats. Literally. When he was done, I started clapping.

Speaker 1:

I was like you did it. Do you clap when the lane plans too? Fuck no. I hate those people. I feel like last night you just fucking. It's like you wanted to crash.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, instead of land those are the guys who ram their dick into you too.

Speaker 1:

Oh, they don't even try to like yeah, they just fucking shove it in there. You're not even all the way wet yet or anything, you're just like can you warm me up a little bit?

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah god the only time. Usually I don't really experience too many clappers on planes, thank god, but when I just flew, I had I always had to fly into vegas when I go visit my family, yeah, and there was like clearly a bunch of like bachelor and bachelorette parties happening on that plane and they were like drunk, as already. Oh, they were just like clapping, yelling yeah yeah, one kept standing up when we were like taxiing and they were like man we have to sit down like yeah they were so mad.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was crazy but yeah, I mean on this flight too, they kept saying like whoever keeps ring? Because we hadn't left yet, and they were like dude, they're like if you ring your bell again, it needs to be an emergency because we're trying to leave. Like she said it three times, she goes ring it right now if it's an emergency. That's what she said, bring it now yeah, she was like ring it right now and no one did wow, she was not around.

Speaker 1:

She was not around jesus yeah don't press that button unless you're dying yeah I don't even know where the button is.

Speaker 2:

I'll just be waving around with my arms.

Speaker 1:

Ma'am, ma'am, you know their name.

Speaker 2:

I'll know the names yeah, I know the names of the attendants. Yeah, ricky, I need something.

Speaker 1:

Sarah just yelling at her aisle 13, 13 C yeah. I never.

Speaker 2:

I literally try to like not even talk to them whatsoever, like I feel bad, I'm, like I don't want to drink.

Speaker 1:

No, thank you, no it's fine, I'm good, you don't need to help me yeah. Thanks, I will not get up to pee. Nope, I never get up to pee. I'll be the best. Be the best student. Yeah, I'll be the best student right here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I try to go so fast too when you're getting on the plane, I try to like, hurry up and get in the aisle really fast, I'm out of the way.

Speaker 1:

And like I'm not even putting anything up in the I was practically throwing our luggage and Rihanna down the aisle Hurry up, go, go, go, go, go. Yeah, drag your luggage. Like just hurry up, pull it, just pull it quick, whatever. However, the fuck goes. Oh my god, traveling is so stressful and it's just like everyone's having a bad time, no one's enjoying it, no, so it's like just try to be nice to everyone and like help people, because it is just awful I do feel really bad.

Speaker 2:

You, normally, when I'm out in public and babies are crying or kids are like whining, I get super agitated.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you can't like handle. I mean, we went to Panera one time and there was a kid and you just couldn't even focus. I mean it's part of your ADD.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I just hyper focus on it.

Speaker 1:

And.

Speaker 2:

I'm like a? Um sensitive with like sounds. Sometimes maybe I'm a little bit autistic you got a little bit of the tism. I'm probably a little on the spectrum. Yeah, um, undiagnosed, but it's fine everyone so I get a little. Yeah, I get this like, yeah, but on a plane I feel like I, I consciously like if I, if there's like a plane.

Speaker 1:

I feel like I consciously like, if there's a baby crying, you just feel so bad, right? I feel so bad, yeah me too.

Speaker 2:

But you know what? Bentley never fucking cried. I traveled so much when he was a baby and luckily he never cried. He was like the best little traveler, Same for us and I was so lucky.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, same for us. But that's why I do feel bad for the moms that are like, yeah, you're irritated, the baby's crying, but she's also embarrassed and she's getting hot and she's like, especially if she's by herself, and it's just like she's frantic and she's trying to like. It's like so much like you just want to take the baby for her and just be like let me just hold it and walk it up and down the aisle.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like, just Like, just for you, like, whatever. Let me give you five minutes of a break because I know it's hella stressful. Yeah, so it's the worst, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I don't know, traveling kind of blows. The actual part, like the actual traveling, like getting there and getting home, is what sucks. Yeah, but once you're there, hopefully if it's for a good reason.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, oh my God.

Speaker 2:

But outside of traveling we've had so much stuff going on at the studio. So, speaking of hustle, Too much stuff probably. Yeah, we've been hustling so hard lately Shit. The main thing that has been going on is we have our two new photographers at the studio.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Cecily and Angela. Yeah, so I hired them last year and they have been training with you for months and months, and months and just have been really like studying so hard they're studying, they're shadowing, they're training, they're practicing, they're learning all these things and you've just been like spending so much time like preparing them to get ready to go out on their own.

Speaker 1:

It's like they're little birds and we're just like kicking them out of the nest yeah, so this week was their first week on their own yeah, I'm so proud of them and you were gone this week, I know I know I can't believe it, because I feel like I would have been, I would have been able to prepare them a little bit more if I was here no, I feel like like just throw them in. Such a good job.

Speaker 2:

I mean, they had way more preparation than you had.

Speaker 1:

Let's be honest like they did and things were changing when I came in, so it wasn't like here's the system, just learn this system. It was like we're creating me it was like creating. So there was a lot more things happening, yeah, uh, and a lot more moving parts where it for them, it is like an actual, I don't want to say like corporate job, but kind of like you come in, here's your handbook, you do it like this, this and this. Here's all the checklists for everything.

Speaker 2:

And here we go, it's set up everything. Yeah, whole studio is super systematized, yeah, systemize make it up whatever yeah and um. So it was a little bit easier in that aspect for them to like learn specific systems coming in, instead of like you were trying to learn it. But we were also like adjusting it, changing it, creating it and it's like fuck, I don't know what we're doing.

Speaker 2:

Uh, yeah, and I think at the time when I pushed you into doing shoots on your own, you weren't like 100% ready, but I was 100% ready for you to start. I was so overwhelmed at the time, right, and we had so many clients and I was like I was shooting seniors and I was shooting boudoir and also running the studio and I was just like you gotta go, like you gotta take my clients, just yeah, I had.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because with them. I feel like what we were able to do was I was able to have them in shoots with me and them shoot how many I mean I, they shot so many you know sessions with me like them shooting, um, where I didn't really do that with you. No, I brought in like five people right before something and then it was like okay, now you're just shooting where, with them, I was able after you did, yeah, right, after we'd done all the training.

Speaker 2:

Right, right, right.

Speaker 1:

And with them, yeah, so with them it was like oh, I can be in, like you know, three or four shoots a week with them helping them shoot. Yeah or sometimes more, yeah, sometimes more yeah, sometimes with cecily, especially because she was able to come a little bit more than angela.

Speaker 2:

Um, yeah, I think that it's been really good yeah yeah, cecily had her very first day on her own with clients, monday, and she also shot on tuesday, and she had a good time. I felt really bad for her, though, because in the middle of the day, tuesday, which I wasn't there I can't remember what happened on Tuesday, anyway, I wasn't there, I was at home and, like her, first client of the day went well second client of the day, she the shoot itself went well and she's getting ready to do their like order appointment, and the viewing and the freaking power went out, which happens very often.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it happened to me on thursday before I left. Oh my god, the downtown, vacaville, is crazy, like I don't know what's happening. Yeah, so we had to buy generators finally because I don't know why we didn't buy them. Forever they're cheap, they're the cheap, yeah, only well, we only need to power two things. We're like we'll do everything in the dark. We shoot in natural light. We don't need to like have a full-blown generator like a grocery store or a hospital, right?

Speaker 1:

No, yeah. So for us it's like, okay, we just need this TV to turn on, this curling iron to turn on, to turn on, or actually just the computer. It's just the computer and the curling iron, that's all we need power for. Yeah, let's get that pgenie off we don't even fucking need that thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, my god that would be amazing yeah, yeah, yeah we just have candles in the bathrooms and shit. I love it. It's like a seance. Yeah, better yikes.

Speaker 1:

It'd be hella hot or hella cold.

Speaker 2:

Oh no, yeah, no, ac, sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's been the main thing that's been going on. Angela had her very first day yesterday. She's there shooting today, so hopefully she doesn't need anything while we're recording. It'll pop up she, she'll be fine, yeah, but it's just been so nice. So, like you know, when you're in business, you get to all these different stages of your business where things are growing. You have to like make all these adjustments and changes and, like I always say, there's these stress points that you come to that are growing pains. Basically, that you come to that are growing pains, basically, um, and you have to be really resilient and be able to like figure things out, get through it. I hate the word pivot because people used it too much. Um, the past couple years has been like such a business buzzword but, you do have to do that and this was one of those things.

Speaker 2:

Like I had you as an associate photographer, I don't even like saying associate photographer anymore, it's just, you're just a photographer at the studio for the past five years now, and but bringing them on for some reason was so different than bringing you on. I think because we're just at such a different level in business at this point and, um, it's just like a machine going.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I feel like it was like such a casual conversation too when we had it and I kind of just said like, hey, I've been thinking like what if we like bring someone else in? And you're like, I've been thinking that too. And then I was like, yeah, let's figure it out. And then, like we had like one meeting and it was like, all right, post it, we're hiring people. And then you hired two people I know two people, not just one. Yeah, when that was like okay, and then we found like two people that like we thought we'd do well, that they would do well, and even with that I think it's so funny we thought these two people would do well. We're like, okay, we could see these qualities in both of them. And it's funny that while I was training them how they were, just like so the opposite would train them and like their abilities were so different, yeah, each other, completely different strengths.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I that's kind of interesting as like being like training them in that aspect, like how I then had to pivot to where I had to teach two different things instead of just kind of teaching one thing throughout the day. I had to like one-on-one teach them such different things.

Speaker 2:

Like one needed more help on one thing where the other one needed more help on other things. And then, because we were hiring them, uh, and the whole point of hiring them was so we could open up the studio to be shooting seven days a week, because for ever we have been open Monday through Thursday, and that's just been the thing, because I refuse to work on the weekends and I didn't want my employees to work on the weekends either, and so we were still open Monday through Thursday. Also, on a more like logistical level, makeup artists like employing makeup artists and finding ones that are available on the weekends is like on a consistent basis is extremely hard, it's really hard.

Speaker 1:

Although when we started, I was working Monday through Friday, you were yes, so we had a makeup artist.

Speaker 2:

So I was Monday through Thursday, so we, the studio was Monday through Thursday until you came on, and then we opened up to Fridays and we were doing only two people, two a day, two sessions a day, which is so weird, because now we do like four to six.

Speaker 1:

I could do four. I like I myself can do four and I was doing two. Yeah, crazy, I know so crazy. And then. So then we went to three, we started having three day and boudoir three, boudoir day.

Speaker 2:

And then I we talked about uh, after, like in october, we were like I was like I'll do four until the girls go full-time, I'll do four, four days a week, because the whole point was to do four, three days a week yes, so we switched our schedule to work four tens instead of working like monday through friday, and so, yeah, and so we switched that whole thing and so now, with them coming on, we're able to shoot Friday, saturday, sundays, which we weren't previously doing. But that also meant we had to then hire a makeup artist. So I know that was the other thing which I feel like we got really lucky, also with Mariah, because of where she was at with, like, her career aspirations and like what she was feeling in terms of like not really feeling like working in a salon atmosphere was for her. I think this position was just perfect for her and her personality and what she wanted to do, and it worked out so great that we already knew her.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, and I think her being comfortable with Angela and Cecily too, I mean, all three of these women that we brought on, they're from our book club. Yeah Well, cecily, we kind of knew through, like she was a past client, past client, she was a branding client. Yeah, she was a branding client. But you know, we got to know them more through our book club, oh yeah, and then I think that's so helpful. Yeah, it's really cause you kind of know their personality, like they they're not going to trick you.

Speaker 1:

I have found that when we hire people and they're doing the interview process which I understand this is how it goes is you're selling yourself and so you are definitely gonna oversell, oh yeah, and so I think we have found that people oversell and underperform. And so, you know, knowing these girls a little bit more, knowing their own kind of business a little bit and, like you know, I mean we went on retreats with you know two of the girls, so we kind of know them a little bit more person on a personal level was, I think, really beneficial for us to hire super helpful, you know, oh, yeah, yeah, and because and that's why usually my which it doesn't always go this way, it just depends on the situation, but, like, my default when hiring someone is to do like four fucking interviews yeah, I know you love to do all the interviews which I understand, because it's like these people are tricking you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's like you can only really put on this facade for one to two interviews max, especially if you're doing interviews in different situations. Like one girl we interviewed her one or two times at the studio and then we were like, hey, we're going to do like a casual, like, not even like interview, interview, interview, but like basically go out for a drink with you at this place and so like having these different scenarios and you're you're interviewing people in different situations even if you just go to a coffee shop or you go out and you're doing different things.

Speaker 2:

You see different aspects of their personality and how they interact with other people, like the people serving there.

Speaker 1:

Right, whatever, right and um, it just tells you a lot more about them and when you're in more casual settings like that, people let their guard down a little bit and so that you're able to see their true personality, which I mean I get. That doesn't really correlate the same in like the corporate world, right? It like also like we are our own h not like we're abusing anyone, but like you know. So it's like whatever we say goes anyways. So like if you don't like it, you could just leave where it's like people are under like different kind of stipulations when you work corporate because you can be in trouble.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so with us. Yeah, for sure, yeah, so with us. So what's super important when I am hiring someone, too, is it's almost like their personality. So their personality is by far way more important to me than their skills, because I could teach skills, I can't teach personality. I can't teach you to be dependable. I can't teach you to be like on brand or you either are or you aren't. And because we're a small business and because we're 100% female team and we do a lot of things together, like the culture at the studio is very this like sisterhood vibe and we like do things together outside of the studio. It's like it's very, very important to find people that fit within that, that I can look at this person and say they would get along with everybody on the team, or at least everyone who they're like going to be directly working with, because if not, that's a huge problem yeah, I mean we're not going to have any cattiness like I don't subscribe to any of that kind of shit.

Speaker 1:

Like you know, I've worked in a salon before and not that we really had anything like at that salon. I think there were a couple of times maybe where people I don't know just acted a little bit out or whatever. But I know salons they act kind of crazy. Yeah, Other salons just like that's not gonna work. For us the thing too, I think that's different. For us it's like it's not typically like a day in the studio isn't like typical of like ten people working together, ten girls, so that someone can do something to someone, or anything like that. I think that that's what happens in, you know, salon setting someone borrows someone or someone doesn't clean up after themselves, or someone you know. And so with us it's like whoever is there, they just run the whole studio and they have to, like figure it out.

Speaker 2:

Well, and everyone when they're there is so involved.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Like, you're the client and you're just doing so much stuff Like you don't have, you can't talk to each other.

Speaker 2:

There's not even time to fuck around so yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I mean, I know that like one thing we talk about a lot you and I have talked about before, is like hustle culture, because, especially on social media the past like couple years, I see this almost trend. Like people are. I mean, people always talk about, of course, like work life balance, and that's why, yeah, however, I think there is this concept that has been a little more prevalent the past few years, where women who own their own businesses and even, in particular, like are newer in business I don't know how to say it Like they come out, they start their business and they want to charge super high prices, they want to be making a bunch of money but at the same time, they don't want to work that much. They're like I'm only going to work a couple of days a week and I'm going to charge super, super high prices so that I can. Like they're not willing to put in the hard work they don't want to do the hustle.

Speaker 2:

They're like I'm hustle, culture is toxic, is the? Is the idea that is like kind of going around and people are just like you should just be like taking care of yourself first, and all that stuff which I don't necessarily disagree with. But you and I have discussed, like I don't believe that you shouldn't hustle the first few years of your business and, to be completely honest, I don't believe that you should be charging the same prices. You're just right out the gate as someone who's been in business for 10, 15 years because you haven't earned that.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, right, yeah, I mean so as far as, like boss bitch, hustle culture, hustle culture, custard, gustle coastal, we say words, yeah, grandma coastal, grandma love that. Yeah, um, I very much subscribe. I hate the words, hate the lingo very much, subscribe to that, like I think that that's part of my personality, that's just part of me being busy. So I think that you know, some people is, some people got it and some people don't, and some people I get because I've done it before we hustle a little too hard where we don't set boundaries and then we later on realize we needed those and we break down or we I mean I don't break down, but people break down, it's all just push through it, um, and then they realize like yeah, I hustled a little too hard and it's like overwhelming and it's too much. And I think that that's where you learn as, like a business owner or like whatever you're hustling in or whatever um boundaries, and you know you set these things where it's like, okay, I can only work during these times and I totally get that, like I get it. But I do agree with these. Uh, maybe they're not young girls and say young girls, these women that come in and they're like I'm gonna make I don't know what it is and I'm gonna charge this much and it's like this crazy price, and then I'm only gonna work during these hours. And then, like you're wondering why your business failed. Well, it's because you didn't have those loyal clients in the beginning to kind of evolve with you as your prices went up. And then you also are now saying like I'm only doing these hours. And then I mean, I'll just say it Like one of the big things that I was pretty shocked in was some of these girls that started doing these extensions like five or six years ago.

Speaker 1:

They're like I'm not doing any color clients and then like, like which I was shocked because that's like your bread and butter, that's easy. I mean, yes, I understand. If you're doing these makeovers, balayages that are taking you seven or eight hours, I get it, I understand. I also understand that you're trying to replace, because you're like, well, it takes me, you know, two, three hours to do the color, and then it takes me, you know two, three hours to do the extensions, and then the extensions I'm able to, like charge more because it's a different service. And why do I want to spend six hours doing it and then I get paid less, like you know, doing the color or whatever, and I just think that it's hard to just completely switch, because now I've seen hairstylists that they're like, oh actually I, I am taking color clients now because people need color in their hair.

Speaker 1:

They do not need extensions when this like economy goes to shit, that's what we've learned people. That's why hairstylists have been able to sustain like this lifestyle is because people need their hair colored yeah they had to pick one or the other.

Speaker 2:

It's not going to be the extensions, yeah they're going to throw the extensions.

Speaker 1:

They're going to learn how to do it themselves, but people can't just go in and highlight their own hair.

Speaker 2:

I mean they can, but they're less likely to go in and highlight their own hair than they are to put in some tape clip in or whatever right, and so I think that and that's not to say not to cut you off, but we're not saying, oh, it's the same thing, like I completely understand. I mean, I have extensions, I have extensions.

Speaker 1:

I could probably do it myself and I wouldn't do it but and I'm a hair stylist yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I mean, my thing is is yes, I think that it does work for some people. Some people went just to straight extensions. Obviously there are hairstylists that just do extensions, yeah, and it works for them. But I have seen very many that now have said like I'm gonna take color clients again and I think like it's hard and you feel like it doesn't matter, like what people say, like that I'm saying that but it's like you feel bad that now you have to kind of go back to taking color clients like you feel like you fail yeah and then it's like so just, you can't make those decisions like so quickly, like that, like be like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm just doing this.

Speaker 1:

And the problem and this is why I always have a problem people get on hypes, like, oh, this is gonna be the next big thing, and this. And it's like they just get on hypes Like, oh, this is going to be the next big thing. And it's like they just get on this hype and I get on hypes too. But I think that that's a lesson that I have to learn too. Like I get on these hypes and then I'm just like oh, this is going to be great, I'm just going to like take off and this is going to. But it's like you kind of got to slowly get there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you can't put all one basket. You're not just gonna make a million dollars tomorrow when you know you're making 50,000 today. You know I wish and I want to. I do want to quickly circle back to what I said earlier, when I said I made a comment about how, like these brand new women, they come in and then I said, like you charge these super high prices and you haven't really earned that, and I don't mean that like, here's the thing, it's your business and you can charge whatever the hell you want and you should be charging your worth.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, all about that, and I'm not about under under pricing yourself or working for pennies ever. However, what I mean by that is, like you said, you don't have the, the loyal clientele yet, so it's hard to even it's hard to get those clients. Like the thing is, when you're brand new in any industry, you don't have the trust of the public, so people don't trust you enough to hire you at all, and so it's harder, when you have these extremely high prices right out the gate for people to come pay that because they're like you're brand new, like why are you charging these prices? You don't have, there's no experience behind that price. The longer, obviously, that you're working in an industry and the more experience you have and the more clients you've had, you can give so much more to your clients because you just you have that experience level under your belt and you know so much more about the industry that that enables you to charge higher prices.

Speaker 1:

um, so I just wanted to touch on that because I said it and then I was like, let me clarify what I what I mean by that and I think too, like here's the thing, no one's reinventing a wheel, okay, because whatever we're doing, there are other people that can do this exact same thing. I think, yeah, I mean, you try to do it your own creative way and you try to, like you know, your personality is you hope that, like that connects you with the client, but someone in your industry can do the exact same thing. You can, yeah, and so I think that because there's so many of us, in whatever industry that you're picking, that you really have to like have loyalty within that like you know, with those people and have that trust, because there's too many of us out there selling ourselves and then and there's so many clients, like, how are they going to choose?

Speaker 2:

And that's why I feel like branding is such a big thing. And um, that's the other thing. Like there's no, there's nothing behind your brand. Like people don't know you yet and so they don't know who you are like as a person, and so I think which I'm going to, this is a little side note. I'm a little bit going off on a side thing, but with branding we talk about, so we do all these branding sessions for clients, and what I'm trying to instill into my clients minds when we're going into doing a shoot is you need to consider what makes your brand unique. Like, don't do a brand shoot and just want to recreate pinterest photos that you've seen and like these trendy things that you're seeing on, like canva or other people's instagram accounts, because then you just look like everybody else. There's this let's talk about the cool girl.

Speaker 1:

I was gonna say, let's talk about the cool girl I'm just gonna say it, cool girl aesthetic okay, here's, I think that clean photos and clean lines and the black and white and like the blazer and all that I think that it is very much a staple. Okay, what I? But anyone can be. Not anyone can be a cool girl, but anyone can look like a cool girl and that's the problem. There's no personality with it and and it's overdone. I mean, yeah, I get it too, like it's just like. I mean, how many times are we gonna, for our birthdays, do a photo shoot with the birthday cake, blowing it out in a black and white photo, like everyone's everyone did in the last couple of years? So maybe now everyone's over it, hopefully, because now we've all done it. Okay, we've all done it one time. So my thing too is, trends come back and so maybe it's like we need to kind of like step away a little bit for a couple of years and then come back to it. You know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean so and I don't want to say this.

Speaker 1:

I'm having photographers also, and I don't want to, you know, get clients to not come to us because that's the look that they're going for. No, you know, that's also like telling the truth in all.

Speaker 2:

this is very difficult because we have this Because we have clients who put their trust in us and we're going hey, your shit's ugly like I mean we're not saying that, but we're just like oh, they listen to it, not ugly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they're just like thinking like oh well, they don't like the cool girl, so they're not gonna like.

Speaker 2:

Here's the all photograph your cool girl, if that's really your personality.

Speaker 1:

I want you to have it. I want to do it as creative as I can do it. I'm going to try to do it. You know, amazing, I'm going to, you know, but I only want to do that if that's truly who you are.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's my point. That's my point Every single girl.

Speaker 1:

What's your brand identity?

Speaker 2:

I'm going to say this and again, it's difficult, being a local photographer, and I do have a lot of hairstylist clients and a lot of hairstylist friends and I want you guys to know I'm not directly talking about you. I'm just saying, when I'm scrolling through Instagram and I constantly see hairstylist branding photos and I'm going, I don't even know what salon this is because they all look the same and I'm so over the cool girl look and I also, which I know this is a, and I don't want to go off on this whole thing. I want to come back to like, hustle culture. But just talking about like, making your brand personal. You need to create a personal brand. It's not. You're not just a company. Like, you are a person and that's what's going to set you apart from. You know the thousand other freaking hair salons that are in Vacaville and they're filled with all these talented hairstylists, but, like you said, I mean now how much, how many of them are doing extensions, or I'm a blonding Specialist or whatever. I mean there's only so many things you can do with hair, okay. So, yeah, people are gonna be doing the exact same thing as you.

Speaker 2:

What makes you different? And if you have the exact same branding photos as them and you're offering the same services, etc. Etc. Etc. Then that's when people begin to price shop. They're simply gone. All right, you guys all look the same, you all do the same shit. I don't know anything. I don't know anything different because also, they're not a hairstylist, you have to remember. They're a client, so they're coming to you as a professional and they don't know all the things that you know. That's just like when, if you are a photographer and clients don't necessarily know the difference in quality when they're looking through different photographers work, some clients do, but a lot of clients go like they can't tell the difference between a good photo and a great photo.

Speaker 1:

They can't they can't even see colors, like they can't tell, like oh, this photographer shoots a little bit or the edits a little bit warmer and this one is a little bit cooler, and like people don't look. I like I look at photos all the time of other people's work and I go, wow, that person is a little orange, or that person's a little green, or you know, and that's something that my just brain automatically goes to where other people wouldn't think that. But then maybe later they'll go, they'll think like well, I look a little dead in this photo. You look like a corpse.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so a little too desaturated or whatever the client doesn't necessarily see that.

Speaker 2:

So that's what I mean when, like it's it, it kind of muddies the water a bit when they're scrolling through and they can't tell all these like little, there's all these little nuances that if you're not in the industry that we're talking, whatever industry we're talking about, that they don't know those things and so they. It makes everyone seem even more the same, and so that's why you just have to stand out and do things that are different and create this personal brand that makes you stand out. It creates trust with people. You need to show more of your personality, your values as a person. Who you are in the world is what's going to make you stand out the photos that you take, where you're just holding the scissors out towards the camera.

Speaker 2:

That doesn't tell me anything.

Speaker 1:

I know that you use scissors. I know that you cut hair right, right I don't need a photo of that or even the photographers, where all you have is a black and white photo of just the camera in your hand. Like you know who I think does a really good job. I mean, not a lot of people know her, but like Mamie, I think she does a really good job.

Speaker 2:

Mamie photo yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think that her photos look like her first of all, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like they're fun, they're colorful, she's really good with the kids and stuff, and she puts her personality on display, such a strong personal brand. Yes, she really does, and I think she's really. I'm sure she's not confident all the time right, none of us are but she is. She seems really confident. She talks about her struggles, like on her, like Instagram and stuff, and I think that she just does such a good job in her own realm of photography and I think that that's why people book her. She stands out so much when you see other ones and I'm just like, oh, it's just photo, photo, photo, photo.

Speaker 2:

Like a client.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'm just like, okay, well.

Speaker 2:

And they're all using the same presets. Everyone's work looks the same. Again, it's all the same. Just like we're talking about the hair, we're not trying to like hate on hairstylists the same thing I hear, realtors.

Speaker 1:

I'm tired of seeing you in blazers and pencil skirts. Let me see what you wear like on the weekends. Let me see you with your kids. Let me see you Like I. I want to know you because here's the thing I can pick out any realtor there's hundreds of realtors in our fucking town and I could pick any of them and you'll get the job done. Now, whether it's going to be whether I like you or not, right, but I don't know if I like you or not, because all you're doing is you have your blazer and you're sitting straight up like this and you're like well, and you have the same headshot cutout on your listing.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that's it.

Speaker 2:

There's no other real photos of you that show me who you are. So my the client, my okay, my favorite personal brand that I have shot for realtors so I'm not saying this is my favorite client, I'm saying this is her brand is my favorite brand, um, in terms of real estate clients because we have shot a lot of real estate um professionals over the years is jamie trujillo. Yeah, I mean, she has a very strong personal brand Because she's very much the girl next door. She has a very like patriotic like brand Like her.

Speaker 1:

Background, her background, yeah, like her family is All service Police Like service Men and women. Firefighters, like all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2:

So that is. We bring that into her shoots. She's very much like a family, super family oriented person. She's a mom, and so we she doesn't just come to the studio and do shoots, where she's like holding her laptop, wearing a blazer and that's it. We have done shoots at her house multiple times. We take photos like in her house, outside of her house, with her kids, with her husband, with, because that's a big part of who she is, and she lets us as well.

Speaker 1:

We uh work, we do wardrobe with her yeah.

Speaker 2:

so we offer wardrobe styling with our branding clients and not everyone mostly people do not take us up on that offer and I think it's a cost thing and they think like oh, it's fine, Like maybe we don't sell ourselves enough on it, like I should probably be on there more like talking about it why it's so important, what makes you stand out if you do this, how you can trust me in doing this.

Speaker 1:

I think I mean with me stepping back on Mondays. That is something that we've talked about. We'll work on. We'll work on and doing stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

So with Jamie she does. She always has us do the wardrobe styling for her.

Speaker 1:

And she comes in and we like work together to like put the outfits, because we talk about the client sizing.

Speaker 2:

We get all their sizing information. We talk about the styles that they like, styles they don't like, colors for their brand blah, blah, blah, blah. Then we get all these outfits together that we rent from different places online. They come and they do a fitting. We have everything ready on the day of their shoot. It's steamed, it's ironed, it's ready to go. So they're just bringing in basics and they don't need to bring in all these outfits and worry and stress about it, and then we already have the clothes. So we don't feel stressed about them bringing the right things. And then it makes it easier because we know ahead of time this is exactly the outfits we're shooting. So I can plan for which locations, which sets we're doing.

Speaker 2:

And this is what I mean like just with her. So her last branding session we shot at her mom's house. She's super close with her mom and so that it's like a meaningful place for her, so that it's like a meaningful place for her. And also she was making she always makes holiday gifts for her clients that year and so, like some of the photos, it was her putting together the gifts that she was gonna be giving to her clients, and so stuff like that is just it's super important to have these photos to create this brand, to stand out, set yourself apart and not just look like everybody else, and so that is a huge part of creating your brand, which again creates trust, which enables you to charge higher prices, and all these things kind of need to be in place before you come in with this kind of in almost entitled attitude about well, I went to cosmetology school, so now I'm gonna make a hundred thousand dollars next, year.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I bought a camera from Costco, right.

Speaker 1:

So now I'm gonna charge five thousand dollars for shoots yeah, I mean I would say that when I started working at the studio I was pretty uncomfortable with the prices that we were charging uh-huh, and I mean I didn't have, I didn't feel like I had the background to charge those prices.

Speaker 1:

Because you're doing the selling Right, but because I was coming into an establishment where they were already charging that and I was trained on that and it has your name on it and it's going to be at a level, but I still felt like you know, I wasn't. I mean, maybe this is like the imposter syndrome where, like I shouldn't be charging, that, you know, and it took me a while to feel like okay with the pricing and so I just don't understand the audacity of some people, like just coming in and maybe like good for you, like I just don't have that confidence in me to like not feel like I need to work hard, to like kind of get there, and so I, you know my question is why should clients have the confidence in you?

Speaker 2:

yeah, to charge that when you have nothing to back it? I don't see like when people are coming to us and they go, oh my God, you charge hundreds of dollars and thousands of dollars for shoots. It's like yes, and there's so much value behind what we're doing, not just experience-wise, but every shoot that we do. It's this all-inclusive thing and we provide the hair and makeup.

Speaker 1:

It's a luxury experience.

Speaker 2:

It's this whole situation. The hair and makeup. It's a luxury experience. It's this whole situation, okay. And so there's all these aspects to why the prices are what they are, and so, and if you go on google, we have almost 200 five-star reviews from past clients that are talking about their experiences with us, and so that's what I mean you have, and I feel like we have a very strong brand. And when you go on instagram and you go on our website, it's like all these things are in place for people to trust us and to see. This is why I need to. This is why I'm going to book this place over the photographer down the street, like I'm not saying literally down the street, but the other photographer, whoever, else that doesn't have as much experience isn't offering as much.

Speaker 2:

I don't really know who they are because their brand isn't very strong, maybe they're newer to the industry, and that's why their prices shouldn't be the same.

Speaker 1:

And you know, even now, I think that I have the audacity to say at this point that I think that our lowest package is too cheap. But I also love that we are able to give people this luxury experience and feel good and have these beautiful photos of themselves at that price point. We've always kind of discussed that we do want everyone a lot yeah, a more broader range of women to be able to do it, but I do feel like sometimes those lower packages are kind of not worth it. I I agree, just as the money spreads through everyone in the studio, you know it's like if the business business is making money.

Speaker 1:

It's not really on those low packages. It's like just kind of paying everyone's out and not really not profiting. Yeah, it's a low profit on those ones. So well, I think it's worth it to do it for the people, for the women, to help the women, but it's not. We're not making a profit. No one's worth it to do it for the people, for the women to help the women, but it's not, we're not making a profit.

Speaker 2:

No one's profiting off of it or the studio isn't, and I wanted to talk about that because so our lowest package for boudoir is actually, if we remember it is half the price of what our lowest used to be. Yeah, and so in the past couple of years I'm sure this is something super relatable to anyone, especially like anyone in a service-based business especially the past couple years, it is harder and harder to book clients and you know, our economy's been kind of shit and also things were just like little people were very unsure of what's happening. We had the election coming up.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, covid popped off Like we are. Everyone was making money. Small businesses were making money during COVID and stuff right after. And then, after that settled, everyone was like shit, it got a little flatline.

Speaker 2:

A little bit of flatline, so it got kind of scary, and so we had to pivot.

Speaker 1:

We had to do a little pivoting. We need a different word. We gotta come up with a different word. And here's the thing our lowest package isn't really our lowest package. Our lowest package is zero, right, because we so.

Speaker 2:

So let me back up yes, so our lowest package we offer right now is literally 50% of what not only our lowest package used to be.

Speaker 2:

price that was double before was our bare minimum you, you were required to spend to jump in with us yeah, we're now we cut that, that price in half, which I don't really want to say the price on here. If you want to inquire with us, whatever, um, you can find out our prices. But we're talking a considerable amount of money that we we cut in half for people to be like a low package and removed the minimum where it's like you technically could come in, just pay the session fee, have the whole experience and we do not require you to purchase any photos at all.

Speaker 2:

Um, and that's because I don't want to feel anyone to feel obligated if they don't love their photos like and I always feel pressured to buy.

Speaker 1:

You don't have to buy.

Speaker 2:

That's why I really have a hard time when people come and they say, like, love their photos, like, and I always feel pressured to buy, you don't have to buy. That's why I really have a hard time when people come and they say like oh, I feel like I need pressure to purchase. We're not a high sales like.

Speaker 1:

I literally asked you if you like your foot, which photos you like?

Speaker 2:

and then show your photos, and then here's the priceless.

Speaker 1:

You can buy it or don't like you could just leave, it's fine we.

Speaker 2:

We're not going to be mad at you. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't. It's not so, and I'm saying all this just to talk about the fact that before, when we were, we were in this position to be able before to charge this much higher price and to have that be our minimum, and if that worked for us at the time, once everything started shifting economy wise, industry wise, whatever and it became a lot more difficult, people were clutching onto their wallets a little tighter, things like that. We had to make some really like tough decisions about what we were going to do here, and so making the decision to remove the minimum and cut our lowest package in half. Obviously, I already knew if we do that, our sales averages are going to plummet, um. Naturally, however, it does open up possibility for us to book more clients, and so and I was willing to work more.

Speaker 2:

So we were. It was like the trade-off is we do this, but we have to more. So now we were working more to make the same amount of money, which sucks, and that's typically in business, not recommended. It's recommended that you raise your prices and work less as you go on, et cetera. But you have to make these difficult decisions sometimes and you have to be flexible, and I always say it like I'm telling you you being resilient is the biggest thing in business, because those are the times stuff like that when shit gets really difficult, like those are the times when people quit. That's why they go out of business. It's not because they couldn't, like you couldn't get clients, or it's because they weren't willing to do the things that were necessary to get those clients. That's why you go out of business, and I think that's something that people don't really talk about that much. And it's really fucking hard to be a business owner. Anyone will tell you. Anyone who is self-employed will tell you.

Speaker 2:

It is super stressful it's so stressful and everyone thinks I'm going to go in business because I want freedom and flexibility. Yet you feel completely tied to your clients, your schedule, your whatever.

Speaker 1:

I don't even own the business and I feel like I need to do more well, also, I just think that that's your personality, but yeah, I think that's just how some of us are yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

and so we talked about it many, many, many, many times over many meetings before making these decisions, and it was like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. And we said I, it was like, uh, I said this isn't gonna last forever. This economy is not gonna last forever. The way that we're struggling right now is not gonna last forever. We have to figure out a way to weather the storm.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it was like, okay, we either do, and I, I mean I was so serious that I was like it's, either this is what we do and we have to work harder to make the same fucking amount of money, which is frustrating, or we go out of business, or we maybe don't go out of business, but we're going to significantly reduce the business, meaning people are going to get cut, we're going to lose the studio Shit, like that. People are going to get cut, we're going to lose the studio Shit, like that. And so it was like decisions had to be made and, luckily for me, everyone was on board and was like, yeah, let's fucking do it. And I said I said I think hopefully we only do this for two years and we'll start to see something from there.

Speaker 1:

And we did.

Speaker 2:

And luckily, like I said, I have such a good team and everyone's super loyal and super committed to making things work for the studio, and you were willing to work a lot more and do all this extra stuff over the past few years because you believed in that and you were like, yeah, I think it's gonna pay off and it 100% has. Yeah, 100%, and I think this year in particular, we're really starting to see a difference.

Speaker 1:

Um, I mean last year, we even. Yes, last year we were well towards there was hope.

Speaker 2:

We started to see a little glimmer. A little glimmer yeah, I mean early the whole year the sales were good, but I mean in terms of like sales averages. Yeah, yeah, yeah the sales specifically.

Speaker 1:

But I last year I felt like, all right, we're, we're gonna be okay, this is gonna start to work, this is going to to be okay, because the year before it was like tough, it was like well make a break.

Speaker 2:

We'll see what happens. We'll give it one more, because I had said I said I'll give it one more year and we'll see what happens. And everyone's like what do you mean? I'm like I can't. I mean I can't live my life like this, so it's gonna have to be.

Speaker 1:

I guess it was really the end of the year, before 2023. Yes, we did like July, august, september, october those were like pretty good for us and then going into the next year it just got better, yeah, but that's almost a year and a half. You know, that's almost like a two-year mark, a year and a half, where it's like a year and a half to like see that like it's going well now yeah, so towards towards the fourth quarter last year.

Speaker 2:

End of third quarter last year is when we were like, okay, we need to, I to. I think I set I'm going to time out. Can you mark this for a second when? What time did we start recording? I'm not paying attention.

Speaker 1:

Like 8.40. We're like an hour 8.30 and right now we're at 58 minutes Oof. Okay, so we're going to wrap it up, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, okay, we'll just take that out, okay, okay. So yeah, towards the end of third quarter, that's when we were like, hey, I started to think, or we started having conversations about hiring you have a lady, the ladybug, oh it scared me yeah I was like oh my god, I saw something falling and I was like the fuck, yeah, it's good luck Well she's somewhere here.

Speaker 1:

She died. That means that we're going to have good luck here. Oh there she is.

Speaker 2:

Oh my god, here we go Then that's good luck yeah.

Speaker 1:

See, this is all good.

Speaker 2:

Yay.

Speaker 1:

Goodbye, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

I was like, uh oh, what's happening. What's happening? No spiders.

Speaker 1:

March and April is the true start of the new year, because spring has sprung, so it's new beginnings. This is going to go well.

Speaker 2:

This is so amazing.

Speaker 1:

Manipulating it.

Speaker 2:

Manipulating, yeah. So as we saw things progressively getting better and better and we were seeing this light at the end of the tunnel that we knew we were going to be in for a couple, of years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this light at the end of the tunnel that we knew we were going to be in for a couple of years. You know, when you're one thing, when you have a team and when you're in these phases of growing, you have to be it's almost like, it's almost like you know in fashion. You have to be like uh one. You always say you have to be one season one season ahead.

Speaker 2:

It's like you have to be almost two seasons ahead when you are hiring.

Speaker 2:

You need to know, you basically need to know six months out, like in six months, like maybe I'm not ready to hire someone today, but in six months I need someone, and in six months I need them to be not only hired but trained and working, because it will take you that long to put things together to interview people, to hire them, to train them, to get them up and ready going.

Speaker 2:

And so that was the point that we were like all right, we need to start putting stuff out there getting ready for these photographers. Their training obviously is very extensive, more than just a regular employee at the studio, and so that's where we were at. And so now, like pretty much six months after that whole phase started, like you said, said they started working this week and now we're into this seven days a week shooting. I have seen an increase in our sales over the past four or five months, so that tells me we're at a position to maybe reinstate our minimum or bring up our lowest package, at least all these things. That again, you just have to be on top of your numbers and know where things are to be able to make these decisions, and well, we've always played with it like, I think, quarter to quarter.

Speaker 1:

We've kind of played with it a little bit what do you mean as far as?

Speaker 1:

like our minimum, no minimum. Uh, this package or this package, we've kind of like, like, but you know, we've kind of played with it a little bit and talked about it here or there, because we always go I don't want to talk about pricing, god, it's the worst conversation or it's like hey, people, in a sales way, people are picking this package because you know what, for whatever reason, take that package off. Yeah, like, we've always kind of played with the price list a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yes, but I guess what you're saying. Yes, we have kind of like tested different things, but it's always based on data.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're pulling our numbers. Yes, we're keeping track, like you said you'll be like.

Speaker 2:

I have noticed. I had four clients this week and they picked this package and this is the reason why they say so we need to make adjustments. Changes in yes, for these things, yes, and so it's never just a guessing game. No, which is hugely. What do I always say? Show me the numbers, show us the numbers, and that's why I have a fucking spreadsheet for every single thing that we do. I need to know the sales averages.

Speaker 1:

Thank God for you, because I just need to ask the question and you give it to me.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, let me pull my report.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love doing reports, and then I'm like okay, then this is how we're going to change it. Uh-huh, it gives you like all of these things are just the backbone of being able to run a successful business. And until you have had that experience and you're able to figure these things out, what is telling you that you need to charge $6,000 for extensions? What's telling you you need to charge $2,000 for a photography package? Where are you pulling these numbers out of your ass?

Speaker 2:

And I understand that specific extension companies like NBR they have pricing calculators. They can help you figure out pricing things like that, and so maybe that is where some people are using, but I also think a lot of people in business I would say the majority of small business owners pull their pricing out of their ass. They look at what other competitors are pricing and then they try to like undercut that or they go oh well, this person's charging this and they suck, so I could charge more than that, and they just don't. They're not really using numbers or figuring out what their costs are for the year or doing all these things, and so then they end up with no clients because they're overcharging, or too many clients and they burn out because they're undercharging.

Speaker 2:

And so this whole idea of like hustling too hard, and I just I don't know. I have a real issue with that whole concept because I think personally I believe I don't know if this is like I believe you should hustle the first at least few years of your business and if I am being completely honest with myself, I would say it took 10 years in business of full-time hustling hard until I got to the point where I felt like I could let off the gas, and that is a decade of my life, and I think that people are not willing to do that and it's okay. My thing is it's okay if you don't want to do that, it's okay if you don't want to hustle, it's totally your choice.

Speaker 1:

It's completely whatever. Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 2:

But my thing is do not expect to have what I have if you're not willing to do what I have done.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and some people just get lucky, right. Some I have done yeah. And some people just get lucky, right? Some people it's the right place in the right time and they get lucky.

Speaker 2:

And I am jealous that that is your situation.

Speaker 1:

But the people that I know in my life or that I have met, that have a lot of wealth in their lives, they have worked very fucking hard to get there. Yeah, you know, know, I know there's like nepo babies and people have had money so they're able to say, you know, build these businesses and not have to work as hard, and that's fine, whatever. But people that actually have a lot of money and are living good lives, that I know have worked really, really hard to get there. Yeah, and you know, and I just don't understand why people aren't willing to do that, if that's what they want, yeah, if that's the goal, yeah, it's okay to be like I'm okay with going to my nine-to-five job and it's low pressure and I'm living a good life and I feel happy and I think that that's great, that I'm so happy for you.

Speaker 1:

For me, I have always just thought've always just thought like, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? How am I going to get there? How is it going to get better? You know, I just I, that's part of maximalizing my life for me, you know, and like, I do think that, yes, I need to have more boundaries with stuff and all that, but it just doesn't really bother me as much, and so, because you enjoy, it and it makes you happy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I specifically remember, like on that note of like everyone doesn't need to have these goals, like you don't always have to have the goal of like doing more and being more and whatever Like that's not everyone, that's not what makes everybody happy, and I specifically remember I was in this networking group.

Speaker 2:

This was like I don't know how many years ago, and I'm sitting there and there's a conversation we're kind of regarding like hustle, culture type of stuff, but this was forever ago and there was this lady and she made a comment about for her, like where her business was at that moment. She was like this this is my goal, though. Like I don't want employees, I don't want she's a photographer. Like I don't want employees, I don't want.

Speaker 1:

She's a photographer, okay.

Speaker 2:

I don't want a studio that I have to maintain. I don't want employees, I like the amount of money I'm making right now. That was my goal. And she's like and it's good, because I have very good work-life balance. And I don't like, I feel like this is my definition of success. Yeah, then that's great, and so that's what you have to figure out what your definition is of.

Speaker 1:

And I don't like, I feel like this is my definition of success. Yeah, then that's great.

Speaker 2:

And so that's what you have to figure out what your definition is of success. If your definition of success is you want to be making multiple six figures a year, if you want to have a team, if you want to be able to take vacations every month, if you want to do all the shit that we're doing, then you're going to have to hustle to get there yeah, even for me.

Speaker 1:

I never wanted to own a salon. I just wanted to make six figures, yeah, and that just wasn't. I didn't want to really have employees. Um, I think I've learned that I enjoy like training, like these girls or whatever, like that's fine, but I just don't want anyone like really relying like solely on me, or like I and maybe that was cause I was a lot younger now I could see like myself being like more of a boss, you know, or like you know, a manager or whatever. But I, I just never wanted that. I don't want to have to like figure out paying the bills on this place. I don't want to figure all that shit out Like I, you know, it's like I want to be halfway and halfway out, like that's where my kind of like places for me and some people, it's like I want to own the whole business. I want to do that and I'm like man, I don't really want to do that.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's what I always felt conversation to have is like do you really want to be a business owner or do you want to be a photographer?

Speaker 1:

Right, I think that is tough too, when you actually have to work in the business.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when I go. Look you, your passion is photography and you don't want to do any of this other business owner stuff is in the beginning.

Speaker 1:

You can't hire someone yet to do all those things for you.

Speaker 2:

So maybe your place is, maybe your happy place is being someone's associate photographer or being an assistant to a photographer or working in someone else's photography studio, and that's the question you need to ask yourself is are you willing to make the sacrifices needed to gain the success that you want?

Speaker 1:

and if the answer is no, you just have to take a step back and reevaluate from there yeah, I mean, I think that's where your boundaries come in and that's really where you have to decide, like, what your goal is in the end, like what really is gonna is gonna be the goal that makes you happy. Yeah too, like the thing is, you can have this goal and then you get there and you go this is shitty.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you can change it anytime you want.

Speaker 1:

Just step back, just take a break, re-evaluate, look at what your new goal should be and decide you don't have to be a boss bitch and be in this hustle culture when, in the end, you feel depressed and you hate it. Don't do it when, in the end, you feel depressed and you hate it. Don't do it. That's not the point, yeah, the point is that it fulfills you. Yeah, for sure. Not that it makes you unhappy. Yeah, and it makes your family unhappy and all that. That's why you don't do it right?

Speaker 2:

well, I think we could literally talk about this, yeah, forever hours episodes already too long.

Speaker 1:

It's too long. We're getting cut off.

Speaker 2:

Christina, yeah, christina is like shut it. Giving me the producer is like so go fuck yourself.

Speaker 1:

I want to hear if you guys, uh, not believe you agree?

Speaker 2:

do you guys? Uh, I keep wanting to say believe. Do you believe us? Do you believe? Do you agree? Do you agree with what we're saying regarding hustle culture? Do you have your own opinions? I would love to hear everybody's perspective on the entire. Boss, babe, hustle culture kind of topic, so shoot us a DM on our Instagram at maximalize Try it. Maximless live podcast. And we'll see you guys, next time I forgot what to say.

Speaker 1:

I forgot.