The Infinite Within (14) | No-Self, Infinite Connection: Watts’s Profound Insight

Explore the profound teachings of Alan Watts as we dive into the concept of no-self and the illusion of separateness. Drawing from The Way of Zen and Just So, we uncover the interconnectedness of all things and how this understanding can transform our experience of life. Discover the liberation of letting go of control, embracing life’s flow, and living with a deeper sense of peace and presence. Through Watts's metaphors and insights, we challenge our perceptions of identity, self, and reality. This episode offers a gateway to understanding no-self not as a void but as an infinite connection to the universe.
Don’t miss this eye-opening journey into the depths of self and no-self. Subscribe to "The Infinite Within" for more transformative insights, and share your reflections on Alan Watts’s exploration of interconnectedness and identity.

Transcript

Hey everyone, welcome to another deep dive with us.

Excited to be here.

Today we're tackling a really fascinating concept.

Yeah.

The nature of self in no self.

Big questions.

Absolutely huge. And to help us unpack all this, we're turning to the brilliant mind of Alan Watts.

One of the best.

Seriously, his insights are mind-blowing.

Yeah, you said it.

We'll be drawing specifically from Just so and the way of Zen for this deep d.

Two of his most thoughtprovoking works for sure.

So, get ready to dive into some pretty deep waters as we explore Watt's thoughts on identity, the illusion of separateness, and how all of this plays out in our everyday lives, our relationships with the material world, and even spirituality.

It's going to be a good one.

One of the things that strikes me right away about Watts is how he challenges that classic western view of the world as like, you know, this collection of separate individual parts,

right? Like we're all just billiard balls bouncing around.

Exactly. He uses the analogy of outdated Newtonian physics. to illustrate this point,

which is interesting because even those old school physics ideas have a way of sticking with us, you know?

Oh, totally. Like we still think of atoms as these tiny little solar systems.

Yeah. With electrons orbiting the nucleus like planets around the sun,

right? It's a model that's been updated by modern physics

and it still kind of shapes how we see the world, you know,

for sure.

And Watts is really pushing us to move beyond that limited view.

Yeah. Like beyond those separate billiard balls.

He wants us to see that everything's actually interconnected, part of a larger, constantly changing process.

So, it's more like a giant cosmic soup. Everything's kind of blending and influencing each other.

You got it. And Watts says this interconnectedness applies to us humans, too.

Oh, so we're not just isolated individuals.

Not quite. He digs deep into how much of our sense of self is actually constructed based on our memories, roles, and what society tells us we should be.

Oh, I can totally see that. I'm like a different me. at work than when I'm with my friends or my family. It's almost like we're playing different characters depending on who we're with.

It's true though, right? It's like Watts gives this great example.

Oh, yeah. What's that?

It's like how you'd act in a courtroom versus at a parade. Totally different vibes, right?

We're kidding.

I mean, you wouldn't wear a clown suit to court.

Hopefully not.

But it makes you think, right?

Yeah. What's the real me underneath all those roles,

right? Like, who am I really?

Okay, that's deep.

It is deep.

So, if our sense of self is so constructed is Is there even a true self to begin with?

That's the million-dollar question, isn't it?

Makes you wonder.

And this is where Watts introduces this really cool concept, the towel.

Okay. I've heard of that, but I'm not sure I fully understand it.

Yeah. It's one of those things that can be tricky to grasp.

It is.

But it's essentially a way of looking at the universe that's way different from the western idea of like a controlling God.

So, it's not about a divine architect up there making things happen.

Not exactly. It's more about this natural unfolding this organic process of growth and change.

H okay, give me an example, something I can wrap my head around.

Okay, imagine a perfectly manicured garden.

Okay, I see it.

Versus like a wild untamed forest. They're both beautiful, but in totally different ways. Right.

Right. Yeah.

The garden's all about control, order, making things fit a certain design, but the forest

The forest is wild. It does its own thing.

Exactly. And that's more in line with the towel.

Okay, I'm starting to see where you're going with this.

Good.

So, instead of trying to force things to be a certain way, maybe we should embrace this more organic flowing approach.

You're catching on.

It's kind of blowing my mind a little.

It's a lot to take in.

It is.

And that's where the towist principle of wooi comes in.

Oh, yeah. I've heard that term thrown around. What does it actually mean?

It's often translated as non-action, but it's not about sitting around doing nothing.

So, it's more nuanced than that.

Definitely. It's more about effortless action aligning yourself with the natural flow of things rather than trying to force your will upon them.

Okay? So, like instead of rowing a boat upstream, you're hoisting the sails and letting the wind carry you.

Perfect analogy.

Nailed it.

But it goes deeper than that, you know?

Oh, I bet it does.

Like, think about a time when you were trying way too hard to make something happen.

GH Yeah, I've been there.

And it just totally backfired, right?

Oh, tell me about it.

But then you let go, surrendered. to the situation and somehow things worked out better than you could plan.

Oh yeah, I could definitely relate to that.

It happens.

Like when I try to force a joke to be funny.

Oh, I've been there.

It just flops.

But then

but then I relax. I let my guard down

and suddenly the humor comes naturally.

Exactly.

That's a perfect example of wooi in action. It's about trusting that there's a deeper wisdom already at play. So instead of constantly trying to steer the ship, maybe we should learn to trust the current a little more.

Wow, this is making me think in a whole new way.

That's the goal.

I like it. So, we're starting to see how this idea of self connects to like a bigger picture of the universe, right?

Absolutely.

And Watts takes it even further with this idea of ecological awareness.

He uses that term to describe a profound experience of interconnectedness.

Okay. So, not just an intellectual understanding that everything's connected, right, but like a felt sense of being a part of this larger web of life.

Exactly. It's like when you're out in nature. And you really feel that sense of oneness like you're not separate from the trees, the wind, the birds. It's all part of one vibrant ecosystem.

I love that feeling. Soaking it all in.

It's amazing.

Yeah, it is. But was points out that we often get so caught up in symbols and abstractions that we lose touch with that reality.

It's true. Like he uses this really interesting example about legislation against flag burning.

Okay. How does that fit in?

Well, he's pointing out how people were prioritizing a symbol over the actual well-being of the country it represents.

Oh, I see. So, we get fixated on the symbol, the flag in this case, and forget what it actually stands for. And this happens in our lives all the time.

We get attached to titles, possessions, those external markers of success.

Oh, yeah.

But we lose touch with the real substance of our experiences, the interconnectedness that actually matters.

We do.

This is getting deep.

We're going deep today.

I'm loving it.

Me, too.

But Watts doesn't stop there.

Nope.

He also critiques our tendency to live in the future.

Oh, always chasing after something more.

Yeah. Always striving for something better, something different

that never ends.

He actually calls it our obsession with instant coffee and fast growing tomatoes.

What an interesting way to put it. What do you think he means by that?

Well, I think he's pointing out how we've become so focused on speed and efficiency that we've lost touch with the richness of the present moment, the beauty of those natural processes.

I think you're spot on.

It's like we're always rushing to get to the next thing, the next destination

without truly savoring the journey itself.

Exactly. And Watts argues that this disconnect leaves us constantly yearning for a future that never actually arrives.

We're always chasing after that next achievement, that next possession, that next experience, but we never fully arrive because we're never truly present in the one we're already in.

That is so true. It's like we're always living in this state of not quite there yet,

right?

Always striving for something more.

So, how do we break free from that cycle? How do we actually start living in the present moment?

Those are the key questions. And luckily, Watts offers some fascinating insights and that's exactly what we're going to dive into in the next part of our deep dive.

Can't wait.

So, Watts, you know, he suggests that a big part of breaking free from that cycle of striving is shifting our relationship with the material world.

Okay, interesting.

So, not necessarily rejecting material things altogether,

right? Not becoming a minimalist or or something.

No, not necessarily, but you know, experiencing them differently.

Gotcha.

Engaging with them in a new way.

So, how would we do that?

Well, Watts, he really encourages us to like, you know, engage our senses fully.

Okay.

To really taste our food,

really savor it.

Yeah. Feel the textures of objects, notice the intricate details in nature,

just be more present in those sensory experiences.

Yeah. It's like waking up to the richness of, you know, just our physical existence being in our body.

Okay. Yeah. I can see that

it's like shifting from just mindlessly going through the motions,

right? Not just scarfing down a sandwich.

Exactly.

But really slowing down, appreciating the flavors, the textures, the crunch of the bread.

Yeah. Like what does it feel like to actually eat?

That feeling of satisfaction.

Yes. It's about bringing that level of awareness to all our senses.

To everything we do.

To everything. Exactly.

Okay. I'm starting to get this. But you know what about our relationship with money and possessions? Yeah.

It seems like our culture is just obsessed with accumulating more and more stuff.

Oh, absolutely. And Watts was very aware of that.

Did he have anything to say about that?

Oh, yeah, for sure. He was a sharp critic of what he called our obsession with like tokens of wealth.

Tokens of wealth.

Yeah. You know, money status symbols, possessions. Okay. Rather than actual wealth.

So, so he's saying there's a difference between like having a lot of stuff

Yes.

and being truly wealthy.

Exactly. He was really getting at that distinction. You know, he tells this really striking anecdote. about all the world's gold being stored on a tropical island guarded by soldiers.

Okay, interesting imagery.

Yeah.

So, what's the point of that story?

His point is that even if you owned all that gold, it wouldn't necessarily bring you happiness or fulfillment,

right? Because you could still be stuck in that cycle of striving, right?

Exactly.

Still feeling like separate, still feeling insecure.

Exactly.

Hm. It makes sense.

It's like we think having a bigger house or a fancier car.

Yeah. The classic symbols of success.

Yeah. Exactly. Those things will make us happy,

right?

But they don't.

They might for a little bit, but then it often just leads to wanting even more, you know,

more, more, more.

Always wanting more.

That's so true. It's like that never ending cycle of desire.

It is.

And it ties back to that illusion of separateness we talked about before, right?

Exactly.

Like we believe that acquiring more will somehow make us complete.

Fill that void.

Yeah. When really true fulfillment comes from connection.

Exactly.

Experiencing the richness of the present moment. Recognizing our interconnectedness with the web of life.

You got it.

Okay. I'm seeing a theme emerging here.

What's that?

It seems like a lot of our anxieties and frustrations stem from this like fundamental misconception of ourselves as these isolated individuals.

That's a really sharp observation.

Thanks.

And to illustrate how to move beyond that like limited view, Watts, he offers this really powerful metaphor.

Oh, what's that?

He talks about swinging. swinging like on a swing set.

Not quite. He uses swinging to represent like, you know, embracing the natural rhythm and flow of life.

Okay, I think I see where you're going with this. So, it's about like letting go of that rigidity and control that we often try to impose on our ourselves and our experiences.

You got it.

Some more like a dancer, you know, moving effortlessly with the music.

Yes.

As opposed to like someone trying to force their body into these stiff unnatural positions.

Exactly. He uses this imagery of squares and circles, you know, straight lines. versus wiggly lines.

Okay. Yeah, I get that.

It's like we're trying to fit ourselves into these rigid boxes when life is actually this fluid, everchanging dance.

Love that analogy.

And it makes me think about areas in my own life where I'm being like too rigid, too serious.

Oh, interesting. Like where?

Well, I don't know. Just like am I missing out on the potential for joy and flow because I'm like trying to control everything?

That's a great question. It

makes you think.

It does.

So this whole idea of letting go of the ego, that's Sounds amazing in theory.

It does, doesn't it?

But isn't that like easier said than done?

You're telling me.

And Watts acknowledges that.

Oh, yeah. For sure. He doesn't shy away from that at all.

Okay, good. Because it feels pretty daunting.

It is. And you know, he actually says that trying to get rid of the ego can be a trap in itself.

What do you mean?

Well, he uses this analogy of trying to put out a fire with fire.

Okay, I see what he's getting at. Like trying to force yourself to be less egotistical just makes the ego stronger.

It can It's like a paradox.

It's counterintuitive.

It is. And so instead of seeing the ego as the enemy,

which is kind of how we usually think of it,

right? The thing we need to conquer.

Yeah.

He suggests that we try to recognize it as like a part of a larger process. It's like a wave in the ocean.

Okay.

It rises and falls, you know, appears and disappears,

but it's always part of that vastness of the sea.

Always a part of it.

Okay. So, it's not about eradicating the ego completely. No.

But about understanding its true nature and how it fits into the bigger picture. picture.

Exactly.

And this brings us closer to understanding the idea of no self. Right.

It does.

So, Watts is arguing that as we recognize the interconnectedness of all things, Yeah.

this illusion of a separate independent self begins to dissolve.

It does.

It's like realizing that the wave isn't actually separate from the ocean,

right? It's simply an expression of it.

Yeah. A temporary expression of the ocean's vastness.

Beautiful way to put it.

Wow. This is mindblowing stuff. So, is it even possible to experience this no self state?

Good question.

What would that even feel like?

Another good question. And these are the kinds of questions that lead us to some of the most, you know, radical and challenging aspects of Watts thinking.

Okay. Yeah, I can see that.

But before we dive into that,

maybe let's take a moment to reflect on what we've explored so far, you know?

Yeah, for sure. I think it's good to pause here.

It's a lot to take in.

It is. It's a lot.

So, what's standing out to you right now.

Honestly, it's a lot to take in. But I think what resonates most with me is this idea of letting go of control, embracing the flow of life, and finding joy in the present moment. You know,

it's like a whole new way of being in the world.

It is. It's a wonderful insight and a great foundation for understanding the deeper implications of no self.

Ooh. Okay. Now, you got me hooked.

Good.

Because that's exactly where we're headed next. The final part of our deep dive.

Can't wait.

All right, so we've been on this incredible journey exploring self and no self with Alan Watts.

It's been quite the ride.

Yeah, it has

a lot to think about.

It is

for sure. And now we're getting to the really mindbending stuff,

the deep end of the pool.

Exactly. Like what does it actually mean to experience this no self state?

Yeah. Like how do we even wrap our heads around that?

Right. Like what is that?

Is it just like an empty void?

Well, and here's where it gets even more interesting.

Oh, good. I like interesting.

Watts, he says that experiencing no self,

yeah,

it isn't about emptying your mind or becoming some kind of like, you know, emotionless zombie.

So, it's not about achieving like total detachment from the world.

No, not at all. It's more about recognizing that your thoughts,

your feelings, even your sense of self, they're all just part of this constantly changing flow of experience.

Ooh. Okay. So, it's more about like going with the flow instead of trying to like dam up the river.

Exactly. It's like realizing that you're not the waves, you're the ocean.

I like that.

You know, it's that sense of vastness.

Okay, that makes sense. But how do we actually experience this no self thing,

right?

Like, do we need to meditate for years in a cave to get there?

Well, Watts, he talks about these moments of what he calls accidental illumination.

Accidental illumination.

Yeah. Where this realization can just spontaneously arise.

Oh. Okay. So, it can just happen.

Yeah. It can it can just sneak up on you.

And he compares it to that feeling of being in a dream.

Okay.

You know, where things don't feel quite real, like those boundaries between you and the world become kind of blurred.

You know, I think I've had moments like that actually.

Really? Like

like where I'm doing something totally ordinary like, you know, washing the dishes or something and I suddenly get this like weird sense of detachment.

Oh, interesting.

Like I'm watching myself from outside my body.

Yeah. Like an out-of body experience almost.

Yeah. kind of. Is that like what he's talking about?

It could be. Watts emphasizes that these experiences, they can be fleeting.

Oh.

And we often don't even recognize them

because we're not paying attention.

Yeah. Our minds are so used to like, you know, clinging to that fixed sense of self,

right? That solid sense of me.

Exactly.

So, how do we become more aware of those moments?

Well, Watts, he suggests a practice of just simply observing.

Observing.

Yeah. Observing your experience without judgment. Okay. So, like noticing my thoughts, my feelings, but not getting all caught up in them.

Exactly. Just noticing them arising and passing away like clouds in the sky.

Like clouds. Okay, I like that.

You know, just observe the sensations in your body, the sounds around you.

Okay, I can try that.

Yeah.

Just being more aware.

Just noticing it all without, you know, getting caught up in the story or trying to, you know, control the flow of things.

Right. Just letting it be.

Exactly. And Watts, he says, as you practice this mind full awareness,

you might start to see the world differently.

Oh, how so?

Well, he talks about this shift in perception where everything appears as what he calls a controlled accident.

A controlled accident. That's interesting.

It is, isn't it? It's like this spontaneous unfolding of interconnected events.

Okay. So, even though things might seem random on the surface, there's actually this like underlying intelligence at play.

That's a beautiful way to put it. And you know, Watts challenges us. to live our lives as this controlled accident.

As a controlled accident. Wow.

Embracing the spontaneity and interconnectedness of the universe while still, you know, engaging in our daily activities.

Okay. So, we're not just checking out of reality.

No, no, no. We're still here.

We're still participating.

We're still in the game,

but with a different perspective,

with a different awareness.

That sounds incredibly liberating, but also, I don't know, a little daunting to be honest.

Oh, for sure. It's a big shift.

Yeah. So, how do we actually live that way?

Well, Watts, he offers some practical suggestions, you know.

Oh, okay. Like what?

Like he talks about following your nose.

Following your nose.

Yeah. Or like, you know, following your feet.

Okay. I like that.

Yeah. It's about being open to like unexpected adventures,

letting curiosity and intuition guide you.

Oh, okay. So, not being so attached to those rigid plans we make.

Exactly. It's about being more open to the twists and turns of life.

Yeah. Trusting that even if we don't have all the answers, we'll figure it out.

We will.

We'll find our way.

We will.

I like And perhaps most importantly, Watts reminds us that

this whole journey of like self-discovery.

It's not about reaching some ultimate goal.

Okay.

Or becoming some kind of like perfect being.

So it's not about becoming like an enlightened guru,

right? Who's always blissed out.

Yeah. Detached from the world.

Yeah. Not at all.

Okay.

Watts emphasizes that the real joy of this path lies in embracing our humanness.

Our humanness with all its flaws.

With all of Yeah. With all the imperfections. the contradictions, the messy beauty of it all.

So, it's about being fully present and alive in the world even with all the challenges that come with being human.

That's the heart of it. And Watts, he suggests,

yeah,

that as we let go of the need to like control and grasp,

Yeah.

we open ourselves up to a deeper sense of peace,

joy, connection,

not as something to achieve in the future,

right? But as a reality that's available to us right here, right now.

This has been such an incredible deep dive. It has.

Thank you so much for you know, taking us on this exploration of self and no self with Ellen Watts.

My pleasure. Really enjoyed it.

Me, too.

Always love talking about Watts.

And to all you deep divers out there, keep exploring these ideas. Keep asking those big questions and see where the journey takes you. Until next time.