Chapter Blue

Charles Heasley: From Crisis to Catalyst for Change

• Tyra Valeriano • Episode 8

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Charles Heasley, a former Texas law enforcement officer, stands as a testament to resilience and transformation in the face of adversity. Grappling with toxic leadership and mental health challenges during his time on the force, Charles' journey is both harrowing and inspiring. We talk about his unexpected exit from law enforcement, and how internal job stressors led him to a critical point, contemplating suicide. Yet, with unwavering support from his family, faith, and friends, Charles found the courage to pursue a new path, now dedicated to improving leadership and fostering mental health awareness across various sectors.

Our conversation shifts to Charles’ current mission: empowering leaders to develop the skills necessary for effective leadership. Too often, individuals are promoted based on time served or specific competencies, but lack the comprehensive training to lead. Charles shares how his experiences have highlighted the need for accountability and trust in leadership roles, and how open, honest communication can prevent the perpetuation of negative cycles within organizations. His commitment to helping others navigate these challenges promises not only personal growth but systemic improvement.

Lastly, we talk about the often painful journey of confronting leadership obstacles and the emotional toll of feeling undervalued. Charles recounts his struggle with inadequate performance evaluations and the isolation it bred. Through his story, we discuss the importance of support from superiors, and how the lack thereof can lead to despair and discontent. Yet, Charles’ ultimate decision to leave his job for a more fulfilling future speaks volumes about the power of self-reflection and the pursuit of a healthier work-life balance. As we close, we express gratitude to our listeners, inviting them to share in future conversations about leadership, mental health, and the ongoing journey of personal growth in law enforcement. 

Books Mentioned: 

  1. "48 Law of Power" Robert Greene
  2. "The Law of Human Nature" Robert Greene

Contact:

  • Charles@CharlesHeasley.com

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Tyra Valeriano:

Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where we discuss the world of law enforcement through an honest conversation on tough or controversial topics, real stories, perspectives and experience from officers all around the world. Whether you're here for insights on mental health, self-care, work-life balance, getting into law enforcement, getting out of law enforcement, or just trying to learn about personal and professional challenges officers face every day, you've come to the right place. I'm your host, tyra Valeriano, and whether I'm going solo or speaking with a guest, each episode will discuss different aspects of life behind the badge. Let's turn the page and step into Chapter Blue. Welcome back to another episode of Chapter Blue. Today, it is my pleasure to welcome my guest, charles Heasley, who is an officer out of my home state of Texas. Charles left law enforcement due to toxic leadership and the effects it had on his mental health. Now Charles runs a successful leadership development and coaching business while teaching for a statewide police association. Thank you for joining me today, charles. How are you?

Charles Heasley:

I'm doing great. How are you?

Tyra Valeriano:

I'm actually doing good. I'm sure it's late where you're at, so I appreciate you joining me today. Tell me a little bit about your journey in law enforcement. I know you had 10 years. What was that like for you? Did you work in the state of Texas the whole time?

Charles Heasley:

Yep, all in the state of Texas. I actually started with an agency. I got recruited into it. I never thought I was going to be a cop. I was a classical guitar major in college and my friend recruited me to an agency and that agency really treated me really well. It was really hard to leave, but there was an opportunity in a larger agency and made the decision. I went to the larger agency, was there for about two years and then promoted to sergeant.

Charles Heasley:

Interesting thing happened because I saw that just in general in our profession there's really not a whole lot of accountability when it comes to leadership development, and so I figured that if I was going to develop as a leader I kind of had to take the reins into my own hands. So I enrolled in a master's of executive leadership program and I also another pivotal thing at that time we had an informal mental health program and the sergeant over the program was going to be retiring shortly. So I put my hand up and said I'd love to, you know, get involved in this, and a few years later I ended up. That became a full time position for me, sergeant over mental health and other other things as well.

Charles Heasley:

And then, you know, eventually, the the job took a toll and it wasn't in the way most people expect. When I talk to people and they say, oh my, your job must have been so stressful and and all the the horrible things, and you know the community's perception of you, I said you know, stress is really a multi-dimensional construct and different things affect people differently, and so, yes, while the street itself, uh, could be very I mean, I've seen some things, as I know you have, that required therapy. Quite frankly, really, it was the internal stressors, the administration, that actually almost led me to suicide and eventually I just decided that you know what of that, you know what? I am not going to allow myself to be a victim and I have something more to give the world. I'm sure of it and I'm going to go all in on it.

Tyra Valeriano:

Wow, thank you for sharing that. Considering that you were in charge of the mental health aspect of the program that you had in your agency and you kind of fell under that spectrum where you felt suicidal, how did that work out for you? Were you able to utilize some of the tools that you were giving to the officers, or was there a different way that you had to deal with that?

Charles Heasley:

So my role? You know I served on the peer support team as well. I didn't lead that, that was a separate entity, but my role was more of the community mental health. So we partnered with our local mental health authority, the court system, you know, adult protective services and anyone in anyone, hospitals, anyone connected to mental health from a community standpoint, because we were seeing that, you know, people get involved in the criminal justice system and sometimes it's not because they want to necessarily. Sometimes it's a result of the behaviors that manifest due to their mental illness, to their mental illness Uh, and so our, our mission was really to try and find the best outcomes for them, um, and and avoid just rotting away in the criminal justice system, uh, unnecessarily.

Charles Heasley:

I, all my resources were external. Uh, I have my very close friend of mine was actually running the peer support team. Uh, knew what was going on with me mentally. Not I didn't share the suicidal part with her and you know I'm fortunate I've got a strong family, strong faith. It was more of an internal epiphany. I guess my mom had passed away a few years ago or a few years, two years prior to this and uh, I, just something about that really affected me, uh, the way I saw life, uh, the, the length of life, how, how fragile and how short it can be. And, um, yeah, I actually reached out to my department, the senior leadership, uh, asking for help, um and help, and was flat out ignored, so I had to do everything on my own.

Tyra Valeriano:

What steps did you take to get resources? Because obviously you mentioned you were a sergeant and that is what I left. Also, I was a sergeant in my agency when I left and I noticed that there was not a lot of resources to offer officers aside from the EAP program, and I've talked about this before in previous episodes. But being that you were in a similar situation, where did you go for that help?

Charles Heasley:

Really just family and my faith, my friends. It was one of those things where I well knew the consequences of letting people know my thoughts and the dark place I was in. And I trusted some people at my agency very, very deeply still friends to this day, very, very deeply, uh, still friends to my to to this day. But the the stuff that I was dealing with because it was an organizational structure, organizational challenges uh, there was nothing really in the system for me. Uh, it wasn't like I mean I could have easily asked my peer support colleagues for a referral. I, I personally knew some. I had visited a police psychologist before, so I knew that there were resources out there. Unfortunately, I just I didn't feel like I was going to be supported. Well, I was not supported in my agency and I really didn't want to. I guess I wasn't ready to make it known.

Tyra Valeriano:

Kind of curious how did your experience? Obviously this is kind of what led you into your business, right?

Charles Heasley:

Yeah, so, like I said I, ended up enrolling in a master's program and got my master's in executive leadership. When I took over or not took over when I raised my hand for mental health. Part of that responsibility was we taught a 40 hour course on. It was a mental health peace officer course At the time. It was not mandatory in the state of Texas. At the time it was not mandatory in the state of Texas. There was another agency. Whenever they would come to our city to teach, they would open it up to all sorts of different agencies. We would send people no-transcript. It's one of the best things that I ever attended.

Charles Heasley:

But then, being a sergeant with this program, I was tasked with learning the program and, to the extent where I could teach it and the state ended up making it mandatory for our licensing and then they ended up making it mandatory for recruits in the academy. And then they ended up making it mandatory for recruits in the academy. So I got tapped on the shoulder to teach that. So I taught our agency and the recruits. Our agency actually still has an academy in-house for recruits. That is not just our agency but for others. And so I said, hey, you know what? I know? There's a lot of officers in these five agencies who need this for licensing. I'd be happy to host classes so that everyone can get the, you know, get through this course, so they're not in danger of losing their license, and then also teaching the recruits, and so I was putting on, you know, five or six classes a year, and I really I don't know your background that well as a sergeant A lot of our sergeants tend to get tasked with teaching but I really loved it, I absolutely loved it, and even though police officers are not always the easiest students to teach and I learned this from a colleague years ago that there's three kinds of participants in any kind of training that's, your hostage, your vacationer and your adventure, and I've, I've had all three in my class vacationer and your adventure, and I've, I've had all three in my class, and my goal has always been I don't really care where you start at, but by the end of it, I would love for you to be an adventure, and I think that a lot of people realize that this stuff was actually going to help them in their career, keep them safer and also keep the citizens safer.

Charles Heasley:

So I was teaching this and I, right after I graduated with my master's degree, I got asked by the city's HR department to come in and talk to them about communication and what we were teaching the police a small program. I went in and, uh, you know, I had the month before graduated with my master's degree and as I'm teaching it I'm realizing, oh my gosh, so much of this communication stuff really applies. I'm I'm using this already in my leadership with my team and so, you know, I'm in with HR professionals and I'm I'm on the fly relating the principles of communication that we teach to leadership. That got me an invite to come do another program that was released citywide to leaders, and it was actually during that month that I nearly took my own life and I realized, you know what.

Charles Heasley:

I don't think this is accidental. I don't think that I nearly took my own life and I realized, you know what I don't think this is accidental. I don't think that I've been given this opportunity to teach. I don't think I've been, you know, given the idea of going for higher education for no reason, and the reviews I got from HR and from the officers by and who had been through the course was overwhelmingly positive. So I thought, you know, maybe this is what I'm supposed to do.

Tyra Valeriano:

I had a lot of conversations with retired officers during the podcast and a lot of them always talk about your why and honestly, I've heard it, I've never really put much thought into it. And now that I've started this podcast, I've come to the conclusion my why when I got into law enforcement and why I am no longer in law enforcement, and this is maybe your why. Maybe this is what led you to this new adventure. What is your perspective? That changed from being in law enforcement and to taking this new role focusing on mental health?

Charles Heasley:

Initially, when I left, I thought I was supposed to do communications and training on crisis recognition intervention in training on crisis recognition intervention, and as the years have gone by, my business model has shifted more so into leadership, which is where I feel like my sweet spot is, and it was a realization that I had when I was in that dark place that I was, that I chose, I was choosing not to be a victim, and I realized that I was a casualty, and it was like I was a casualty of a system. And so now what my why is my purpose is? I know that there are so many leaders out there, so many organizations out there, that they don't want bad leaders. The leaders themselves don't want to be bad, but oftentimes they're there, they grow up in the system and they they don't know any other way because they've only seen it one way. And when I started telling this to people, I learned I heard over and over again well, that doesn't just apply to law enforcement. That's this business, that's this. We deal with this in hospitals, we deal with this in these kinds of organizations too, and so one of the groups I work with, uh in in the private sector, we talk about MBA, and that is not your master's of business administration. That is a manager by accident.

Charles Heasley:

Oftentimes, you know, in law enforcement we might take a test, there may be a selection process, but in a lot of organizations I think law enforcement even included people get promoted because either they're a good individual contributor or they've been there long enough and have enough seniority, or they're, just frankly, better than the alternative, and that doesn't necessarily make them qualified to be leaders. And so they become leaders and they try to avoid the bad things that they experienced from their leaders and they try to do the good things to model from the leaders who have been exemplars for them. But there's so much more to it, and the great thing about leadership is it's a skill that can be taught for those leaders who genuinely want to become good leaders. So the real evolution for me was I was a casualty of a system, and while I would rather not have experienced that, I think it was a blessing that I did, because now my purpose is so much greater. My mission is really to help other leaders become the best versions of themselves so that they don't leave casualties in their wake.

Tyra Valeriano:

That's great. Are you focused on law enforcement now or do you focus on other branches of leaders outside of law enforcement?

Charles Heasley:

So right now it's a mix. I do work with law enforcement, I guess about 20% of the year. I do a lot of work in the public sector. I'm starting to branch out into the private sector as well, but yeah, it's mostly public sector right now.

Tyra Valeriano:

What is it that you're seeing with all of these leaders, whether it be in law enforcement or outside, in the private sector? What is the biggest struggle that they're having?

Charles Heasley:

um, as you're teaching this, this course, or, you know, conducting these classes, If I had to narrow it down to one thing, I would say accountability, um, and and I and I'll, I'll. I'll put this in the context of of. From when I took my first formal leadership development program as a Sergeant, um, it was required, my, my name was added to a list. Uh, we now have Sergeant Heasley, um, and now, because he's a Sergeant, he has to take this course and that course and that course. And now, because he's a sergeant, he has to take this course and that course and that course.

Charles Heasley:

And I remember asking people in my organization what am I supposed to learn from this course? And I'm super excited about it. It seemed really comprehensive and it was pretty well said to me that this is a check the box training. You go because your name's on a list, and that really bothered me quite a bit. Because the agency is investing money for me to be there. I'm going to be gone for several weeks. That means other people have to cover my shift. There has to be something more than check the box. And when I teach leaders in all sectors not just law enforcement, but in all sectors, I'm I asked them are will you be supported by your agency with these, with these concepts and um. I think a lot of people come to these classes and by the time they leave as adventurers, they want to, they genuinely want to Um. But the biggest challenge that I have seen so far is that the system.

Tyra Valeriano:

When it comes to accountability holding people accountable it tends to be one of the biggest challenges would say that they probably would agree that they feel that leadership either doesn't take accountability for what they're supposed to be doing or somehow there's always a big weight on leadership and their responsibility for how an agency is doing. What is it that your course or what you teach contribute to how leaders can attack that kind of perception? Or is it more of just changing the way they do things to gain trust, you know, from those that are beneath them?

Charles Heasley:

Yeah, that's a great question and I wish I had the answers what. My approach is that everyone has a boss. Even if you are a leader, you have a boss. I mean even running my own business. I feel like I'm still accountable to my clients and and and and whatnot.

Charles Heasley:

But in in the agencies, whether you're a Sergeant or Lieutenant or whatever rank you are, uh, you have a responsibility to gain the trust of your followers, uh, of the people who directly report to you, and if you're a mid-level leader, you know all down the ranks. At the same time, trust without accountability, I, I people have to know that there is a standard, that there is, that there are curb lines, we, we can operate within these curb lines and if we feel trusted to do so and we feel like we have some autonomy and and and and you know some skin of the game, people want to work, there's I. I can't tell you how many times I have seen recruit officers. I've been there recruit officers who they they go to their old board and they're like I'm going to change the world and you know this is going to be great. And then, two to three, four or five years down the road, we find them sitting under a tree card up with another officer and it's like, well, how does that happen? And it's because, really, there's a lack of trust and a lack of accountability. So what I want to do, if at all possible, is empower leaders to take over what they can.

Charles Heasley:

One of my most respected lieutenants that I ever worked for. She referred to it as we can only control our piece of the pie. When we say the word control, it's not that I necessarily have direct control, but I have direct influence. If I can positively influence my piece of the pie, I really don't necessarily have to worry about everything, but I am responsible for my piece of the pie. When it comes to managing up, I definitely think that a lot of the concepts that we teach can be applied in giving people confidence on how to have those conversations.

Charles Heasley:

I made a lot of mistakes when I was in law enforcement. Um, I, I, uh. You know I'm. I have been told that I came across as arrogant when my, my whole outlook was I just want to do the best I can and lead the best team I can and be the best sergeant I can. I have zero desire to make anyone feel threatened. All I want to do is do my job, and so I have learned that the way I came across, uh, maybe you know now. I know things that I didn't know then and I would. I would definitely consider that in my approach, but I try to.

Charles Heasley:

I try my best to be a source of encouragement for those leaders for when they need to have those difficult conversations with their bosses, because, unfortunately, difficult conversations are a thing, they happen, they're necessary, and I personally believe that one of the flaws with the system and this is an evolution, I don't know exactly when it started, but one of the flaws in the system is that when there's a lack of communication, things go poorly, and we don't like communicating properly tough things to each other, and nobody really trains you for it.

Charles Heasley:

So when I tried to have difficult conversations leading upward, the response that I got was that I was the most difficult for this one particular person, that I was the most difficult Sergeant that they'd ever have to supervise. I was really devastated by that comment and I I said, well, I don't, I don't really want that. I would love for us to work together. Now here's where I see a problem, right, because I go to this person and I say what can I do differently? How can we work better together? And their response to me was I think this is just the way it's going to be.

Tyra Valeriano:

You know, I've had that, maybe not very similar. We call that the yes man right.

Tyra Valeriano:

You have your leaders who are yes men, and that is the ideal person to be in charge of, and I was not a yes man, yeah, so I feel that you know when people speak up and and maybe there isn't all yes men, maybe there's just people who don't care to bring the conversation up, because sometimes you're just coasting and you just want to get through your day, go home and be done with the job goes back to what you said communication, and a lot of leaders, at least in law enforcement, are probably from the older generation, right? So I like to call it the stigma. You know, we do it this way and this is the way we've always done it, and I'm sure that in your time of doing your business and teaching leaders, you've come across these people that are leaders and they are like this is the way we're going to do it, this is the way it's always been done. How do you get across to leaders like that? How do you break through that wall?

Charles Heasley:

That's quite challenging because, you're right, the yes man is the one who is the easier person to supervise, and in my experience, what I've witnessed is that a lot of the yes people not just men, but a lot of the yes people those are the ones who oftentimes get the coveted positions or the you know whatever. Whatever is the desired assignments, the promotions in some cases. Whatever is the desired assignments uh, the promotions in some cases. And so one of the one of the concepts that that I teach often in law enforcement and also outside of law enforcement, is the concept of followership and the. The main model that I use is is from Robert Kelly, who, in 1988, wrote a article in the Harvard Business Review called In Praise of Followers, and he rates people by the level of engagement. They're either disengaged or they're actively engaged, so there's a spectrum of engagement. And then, on the other axis is the use of independent critical thought. Independent critical thought it doesn't mean that if somebody is low in this level that they're stupid or that they can't use it. It's that it could be the case, but in a lot of cases they choose not to use that level of independent critical thinking. What the obvious answer that we're looking for is we want people to feel like they're exemplary followers, that they're actively engaged but they're also using high levels of independent critical thinking and that's your exemplary follower. And those people are very tough to lead because those are the people who will respectfully say I don't know that that's a good idea right now. There's a difference between a critical incident and you know I'm giving a direct order on the street. You know you need to go do this. There's a difference between saying I'm not so sure about that and in the walls of the police department, when decisions are still being made, when tough conversations have to be had, there is a different kind of courage needed. There's a courage on the street and there's a courage in the walls of the police department, and exemplary followers have that courage.

Charles Heasley:

Conversely, when we talk about people who are high levels of engagement but low levels of independent critical thought, those are your conformists, those are your yes men, those are your yes women. Those people are a lot easier to lead because they'll do exactly what you say. They won't challenge you, they. They know that if they do, uh, they will be put in the out group. And the unfortunate thing about that category is, while those people can be easier to lead. They're never going to come to me and say I really think we've got an opportunity here, or I've see that there's a problem here, or uh, may I respectfully disagree with those people will never really come to you and say those things and, as a result, over time the organization becomes stagnant and it is a good old boy system becomes stagnant and it is a good old boy system.

Charles Heasley:

So really empowering people to take on the role of the exemplary follower, um and and saying, hey, this requires a lot of courage. I, from experience, caution them. You have to choose your battles wisely. You have to be respectful when you disagree. You have to realize that any kind of disagreement you do will be taken as a threat. It will potentially put you in the outbox or the outgroup. So you have to be very intentional about how you approach these conversations.

Charles Heasley:

And leaders don't like change. There's a saying in law enforcement, right. There's two things cops can't stand. That's change. Or when things stay the same, right. And so leaders, you know, like you mentioned earlier, one of their favorite phrases is because that's the way we've always done it, I try to encourage people, have the courageous conversation when it's appropriate. No, you know, pick your battles wisely. Ideally, you will have built up some trust with your leader and invested in that relationship. But you also have to know that there is no magic formula and you may have a conversation like that where the answer is because that's the way we've always done it or because that's just the way it's going to be.

Tyra Valeriano:

You know, I had a experience as a sergeant where I was the only female sergeant at that time and I was the one who wanted to make change. And if you, of course, maybe you can relate. But when you get promoted and you envision the way you want to be a leader, you go in with these ideas that you're going to tackle and you are going to create this massive change that you've been waiting for, right? That's the idea that I had, and I remember going to my lieutenant because there was an issue on patrol, which there's always issues on patrol. Patrol always has complaints and being that I had come from patrol, I felt it was relative to address these issues and see if we can come to some kind of resolution. And you know, what ended up happening is I brought these issues to the forefront and said, hey, this needs to be addressed and we need to find a resolution, because this is a continuous problem. They're not happy and this is causing the morale to be very, very low. Problem. They're not happy and this is causing the morale to be very, very low.

Tyra Valeriano:

And once it was addressed, I found out about a week later that this supervisor went around asking all the other sergeants hey, is this a problem for you? Do you feel like this is a problem, you know, for patrol? And then came back to me and said hey, well, nobody else agrees with you, this isn't a problem. So it was shut down and, to be quite honest, I felt like that was a loss of trust for me with my supervisor, because I went to him with a problem, not only with a problem from patrol side, but a problem that I also experienced on patrol side.

Tyra Valeriano:

So it wasn't just hey, Tyra is my supervisor now Let me come to her with this complaint. It's something that I also experienced and it was once again, just kind of blown to the side. So this is just one of those things where it goes into the communication is is everybody on the same page or is everybody going to be a yes man? Because you go in there wanting to make change and then it just doesn't happen. And I feel like this is where leadership comes into that wall, or there's a wall there. They come in with these great plans and this great you know idea that they're going to make even a dent in change, and they get hit with that wall and now they have no motivation to do it. So here we are back at square one, and nothing changes.

Charles Heasley:

Now they have no motivation to do it. So here we are back at square one and nothing changes. Changes scary. You know, anytime that something is brought to a leader an idea, a plan there is a challenge there, because that means all the time it means that there will be additional work on that leader that you bring it to and we get very comfortable in our routines, we flourish in the system that we grew up in and so those, anytime somebody like you will come to a senior leader with a, with a challenge, with an idea, the immediate response is often no. And it's not necessarily a planned no. It's not that they want to say no or that they completely disagree with what you're saying. It could be that they think, oh, there's just going to be more work on me, or they may not get their senior leader support. You know there's often ranks, additional ranks that may need to get involved in some problems.

Charles Heasley:

I mean, I remember there were, there were some times where I was, I came with a, with a proposal, and you know I was told all right, we'll do some research, put together an actual proposal. You know they had a form. It would be eight, 10 pages long. I think I would create a PowerPoint, I would do all this research and they would listen. Sometimes they would listen, at least before I really got to the end there, to the end there, and, um, you know, the answer was often no, and and I, I knew I knew that going into it. But, uh, I was very fortunate, at least with the assistant chief we had at the time. I was very fortunate that he was willing to listen.

Charles Heasley:

Um, you know, things change. Uh, you know the, the system that I was in, uh, you know I, it was a brand new unit and so I'm coming with all these ideas, all these needs, and I, at the time, I had no idea how overwhelming I was. I had zero idea that I'm coming with, you know, I need soft uniforms, I need unmarked cars. You know, I need this, I need this kind of training. And I had no idea that every time I came to them I represented a problem because it was additional work or they were going to have to make an ask and um, and so I think again, I went.

Charles Heasley:

When I coach people, when I, when I teach them, I I really try to help them understand how critical it is to plan for that conversation and plan for that Really it's a threat response. Um, the, the in this situation. They went around and asked people, but I, the way you say it, the first thing that it makes me think of is that maybe the way it was worded or prompted was um, they were expecting the to hear that. Oh no, this is fine, there's no problem here. That's the first thing that comes to mind.

Tyra Valeriano:

Yeah, and you know it's. It's nothing against that particular leader, it was just an experience that I had and at some point I feel like it goes back to accountability. Right, this leader is in charge also of patrol and it kind of reflects that leader. So if they hear from other places that, no, there's not a problem, or, you know, maybe other sergeants just didn't want to deal with it, if there is a problem it's going to reflect on them and then it's a bigger problem, right? So what better way to get you know that affirmation that, hey, no, this is not a problem, we're doing fine. And just to have that one sergeant who's saying, no, this is a problem, that doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist, just because other sergeants aren't agreeing to it.

Tyra Valeriano:

I mean, there has been voices that were limited because, or they weren't heard, because nobody else said anything. I feel that this pressure, you know where you do have leaders that go to their leaders looking for resolutions, or you know a way to solve a problem and it doesn't get solved, and they're constantly knocked down or they're constantly giving or receiving feedback that this is not what we want you to be doing. This is not. You know what we're looking for in a supervisor. It can really beat them down and they may think that they're not doing a good job. But there may be some people out there who are experiencing the same thing and maybe they feel like they can't be related to in any way.

Charles Heasley:

What I've found in my story is that when I share it with people, all the details would be much longer than the scope of one episode in a podcast. So, um, but when I tell, when I tell the story, it's it's almost surprising how many people are like, wow, I, I have felt almost the exact same way and for a variety of different reasons. Uh, but in our in in law enforcement, it's just, you have to be very careful who you talk to about certain things and who you show vulnerability to. In my case, the beginning of the end was really the creation of this full-time unit, and I think when it was built, there was really good intentions on the composition of the unit. I went from having a very short chain of command in the mental health side to now having four people in the chain of command above me Ideas that I would have. I had been going, I was, I was the subject matter expert. I was also the only one who put in for it, because it was, it was going to be such a complicated position to start with. I really needed a lot of support. I needed, I needed a chain of command who really backed me, and I didn't feel that and I was really put in an interesting place where I had the ear of senior officials, not only in the police department but in the city. There were meetings I was mandated to be at with other high-level people in the city. I didn't ask to go to the meetings, I was mandated to be there. Looking back on that experience, I'm very grateful.

Charles Heasley:

But also, while I had that, I had, I felt, zero support from my chain of command. Uh, the chief, a hundred percent. I believe he had my back. I believe he still does. Uh, but the the rest of the chain of command, um, I felt like I had no support. That plus the expectations that were me on me and my team.

Charles Heasley:

Uh, I, my phone number was given to the city hall. Um, you know, the the city manager. Well, the deputy city manager had my number. Um, you know, all sorts of people had access to me. All seven chiefs had access to me.

Charles Heasley:

Um, and I remember multiple occasions where I'm sitting in my office and I'm swamped and I'm getting a call from one chief on one phone, a call from another chief on another phone, an email from somebody else. That's very important and then. So all these things are happening and they need stuff fixed yesterday, and so I felt overwhelmed with all this responsibility. And then I go to my boss and I say, hey, I'm really feeling overwhelmed. Is there any way I can get some support for this or that, or you know?

Charles Heasley:

And that's when I, when I was told that I was a difficult Sergeant it was multiple times but, um, I really started to feel like I, there, there was no success. You know, and and I teach leaders all the time we have to define what success looks like for these. If you're a Sergeant, your officers need to know what that looks like. How, how can they succeed? Because if they don't know, then they're going to be constantly stressed. I had a lot, of, a lot of pressure from me from above, uh, from from senior leaders and, um, I, I really didn't realize it at the time, but the the way that I was asking for things and the way I was trying to build this unit. I believe that I came across as a threat to my chain. I wanted to do the best I could for the city and my my team, but I was. I was constantly under the gun and constantly being scrutinized. This was 2021. So I get my performance evaluation.

Charles Heasley:

There's a lot of other stuff that can go into the story too, but this is really the key, and my boss had written in there that I almost was rated as needs improvement for interpersonal communication, which I thought was funny because my role was interpersonal communication. You know, I was the representative for our department to the city. Um, I had strong connections and and all not all, but most of the city. Uh, you know cause? We had to work with the fire department and the parks department and the libraries and all this, all the different departments that were related to what we were doing. I had to work with other organizations. I had to work with the County. I had to work with the mental health authority hospitals I'm the one going out and, oh, and, by the way, I'm teaching police officers and recruit officers how to communicate in crisis. And yet you're writing in my evaluation that I almost needed improvement because I had to tell somebody that we were not going to be able to handle their um, another, like patrol, had a mental health thing sometimes and they would say, hey, can you take this off our plate? And so I would respond because it would not always meet the criteria for uh, for triage. Uh, you know, and I would provide other resources. And so I was. I was. I was a problem for my Lieutenant because other people were complaining about you know. I think the words were that I didn't play well in the sandbox, or something like that. Then I, then I was.

Charles Heasley:

There was other portions on this evaluation that I was surprised at too. For example, I was rated as meets expectations and leadership and I I said, well, it doesn't make any sense. I, I've been tasked with forming and leading a brand new unit. Some of these officers are winning awards from the county. The county says that we're some of the easiest people to work with, that they have. I mean, I can't speak for them, but you might ask with them if I'm a decent leader or not. The community sees me as a leader. I have a master's degree in leadership. I teach leadership for the city. So what else would I need to do to be rated as exceeds expectations Initiative?

Charles Heasley:

I was rated as meets expectations and initiative and I said, boss, I've formed, you know, built this unit. I'm constantly trying to make us even better. I'm writing policy. I'm doing all this training that I don't necessarily have to do, but because I know that these officers licenses not necessarily in jeopardy, but we want to get this off their plate as soon as possible. There were several other other categories and I said is there any way we can talk? Because I, I, I feel like I'm working as hard as I can to make this team, to make this organization as good as possible and and and as as as valuable to the city as possible. I don't feel like I have your support and I don't feel like I have the chain support. Is there any way we can talk and to to so I can figure out what it is I need to do to succeed? And he says again um, that's just going to be the way it is. Slides my performance evaluation back to me. So sign here in in any other organization that I'm aware of, in in in the city, in the city, if you have a, if you had disagree with your performance evaluation, you can, you know, contest it basically, and the next level leader has to review it.

Charles Heasley:

So in this case, it would have been the deputy chief and the police department. That's not how it worked. I could write a rebuttal and the only person that had to read it was my Lieutenant. I could write a rebuttal and the only person that had to read it was my lieutenant, the one who wrote it, and then it goes into my file. In other words, zero accountability. So I was told the performance evaluation was a done deal, it's closed, we're moving on. I said okay. So I did what all people do who are ready to end their career, and I wrote in a memo and the memo was addressing where I thought the evaluation was incorrect.

Charles Heasley:

And on the eighth page of the memo I requested to meet with my chain of command because I did not believe that I was being rated fairly. But I didn't ask to meet with them about that. I figured the evaluation was a done deal. I asked for two things, and two things only. The first thing I asked for was to form a training plan for my unit. I had taken over and they had no additional training beyond the regular patrol officer in mental health, and I wanted to get them some additional training hostage negotiation, things like that to better prepare them for their role. The second thing I asked for was a meeting with my chain of command so that we could all get on the same page, because I was under so much pressure they were basically knocking me down every time I tried to get up and I didn't know what to do.

Charles Heasley:

I was in such a dark place. I was doing the best I could and I was not. Nobody would even listen to me. Nobody would sit down at a table and say, charles, here's, here's how you're messing up, here's how you're not meeting our standards, here's what we expected to do.

Charles Heasley:

I submitted the memo and this is about the time when I was teaching that course for the city, the leadership course, and two weeks goes by, and it's during this two weeks Now I've seen my chain of command at various functions. During those two weeks they didn't even acknowledge me. In two weeks I'm freaking out. I'm like what's going to happen? What's going on? It's during this period of time where I feel so lost and so alone, like there's no hope. And for people who have never been suicidal, they don't really understand. They think that it's, that it's something easy to you just get over it. And when you're deep in that hole and you don't know what the other side looks like you just. It's so lonely and dark. And even though I saw my wife every day and my friends and family, I was fighting this internal battle of just angst. I I wanted so much to be a good asset for the city and and to be a good sergeant, and I was. I was failing and I didn't know why or how.

Charles Heasley:

Two weeks goes by and I get an email from my Lieutenant and you know, oftentimes he would address me in an email, charles. You know, blah, blah, blah, sergeant Heasley. Number one your memo will be placed in your file per policy. Number two you can I forget the exact wording, but you can develop whatever training plans you want for your unit. They may or may not be approved. Number three your request to meet with the chain of command has been denied.

Charles Heasley:

I went to a tailspin. I couldn't even. I couldn't believe it. They wouldn't even meet with me, tara. They wouldn't even meet with me to talk.

Charles Heasley:

Yet I was put on these, these, these stages, these platforms that were obviously important to the police department, to the city, and I'm telling you, I'm crying out, saying I am struggling, I want nothing more than to do the best, and they won't even meet with me. I have the memo saved and I have the response saved. I reached out to some mentors, some friends and, um, I tried again, I tried to reach back out. Um, there was no response. So two weeks later I had hard conversations with my wife we're walking away from an income and a pension and benefits and all this but I knew that I couldn't stay in this position. I couldn't stay feeling like I was. I didn't want to feel that way anymore and, um, rather than taking the ultimate, you know and life ending decision, I mean my, my finger was on the trigger and the slack was pulled out, like I was a pound of pressure away from it being done and I didn't want I mean, thank God I didn't sneeze or anything, but I was so close and I said I can't do this.

Charles Heasley:

So I asked internal affairs what's the exit process look like? And that was in October of 2021. I told them that I didn't know when I was leaving, but it was probably going to be in the spring of 2022. This is October of 21. There was no actual effort to retain me, no conversations, except for one. I gave them a 10 week notice so that they could fill my spot and that I could train my replacement. No effort to retain me. So I was not under investigation. I was not in like actual trouble with the police department. I um, I showed up to the department on my last day, turning all my stuff and that was it.

Tyra Valeriano:

Wow, yeah, that's. I'm sorry you experienced that. That's a rough, definitely a rough experience, and I'm pretty sure there are some people out there that can relate to some of the experiences that you're in today. You are running your own business. You are still teaching leaders how to be leaders, leaders how to be leaders. You're addressing the hard topics that you know leadership has a hard time addressing on their own. If there is anything that you would want to take out of your experience as a whole and give advice from what would that be to another officer?

Charles Heasley:

Hmm, I, it's so hard to narrow it down to one. I think the one piece of advice I would give is to study human nature. I've read the books 48 Laws of Power and the Laws of Human Nature by Robert Greene since leaving and I realized how many mistakes I made because I violated simple rules of power and human nature. And do your best to understand human nature and do your best to understand yourself. I think that that my story. I can point to so many examples of where I messed up. I didn't, I didn't make the right approach or whatever, and I became a threat that I didn't want to be, and I think that if I had done more work to understand myself, I could have avoided that. And so I encourage you to understand human nature and understand yourself.

Tyra Valeriano:

That's great. Is there any way that listeners can contact you or maybe look up your business if they want to take a course with you?

Charles Heasley:

Sure, my best way to get a hold of me is via email. It's Charles at Charles Heasley dot com, and will you put that in the notes.

Tyra Valeriano:

I will.

Charles Heasley:

It's for those who don't obviously know the common spelling of Heasley Sounds good.

Tyra Valeriano:

Well, thank you so much, Charles, for joining me today and sharing your story and also showing the way that you were able to make a comeback and do something still great, not only for yourself, but for law enforcement and leaders in many areas, of all aspects. I want to thank the listeners for tuning in and supporting Chapter Blue For everyone else. Stay safe and we will see you on the next one. Thank you for joining me on Chapter Blue. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to follow and tag me on social media and share with your friends and fellow officers. If you're interested in joining an episode, I'd love for you to be a part of the conversation. Until next time, stay safe, take care of yourself and remember you're never in joining an episode. I'd love for you to be a part of the conversation. Until next time, stay safe, take care of yourself and remember you're never alone in this journey.