Chapter Blue

Tom Smith: 30 Years with NYPD to True Crime Podcasting

• Tyra Valeriano • Episode 15

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Tom Smith's 30-year career with the NYPD reads like a roadmap through the evolution of modern American policing. From his early years patrolling the streets during New York's high-crime era through his extensive work in plainclothes units, narcotics, and gang divisions, Tom offers listeners extraordinary insights into the realities of law enforcement.

Following 9/11, Smith's career took a dramatic turn when he joined the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force, where he would spend the next 17 years. This transition led him across several countries, including a three-month deployment, putting him at the forefront of international counter-terrorism operations. Throughout our conversation, Smith balances operational experiences with deeply personal reflections on the psychological toll of police work.

Perhaps most compelling is Smith's discussion about mental health challenges in law enforcement. He shares his own experiences with nightmares and the difficult balance of protecting his family from the darkness of his profession while maintaining open communication with his wife of 35 years. As he explains, while the average person experiences approximately five traumatic events in a lifetime, officers might encounter that many in a single shift, a reality that leaves invisible scars on those who serve.

Now retired and co-hosting the Gold Shield podcast, Smith advocates passionately for better mental health support within the profession and offers a powerful perspective on the changing policing. His advice for new officers centers not on tactics or techniques, but on something more fundamental: developing strong communication skills. As Smith puts it, "If you don't know how to talk to someone, you are not going to be successful." Whether you're considering a career in law enforcement, currently serving, or simply interested in understanding the human beings behind the badge, this conversation offers invaluable wisdom from someone who's lived through three decades on the front lines.

🔗 Resources & Contact Info from the Episode:

🎧 Gold Shields Podcast

📞 Mental Health Support Mentioned:

  • Copline — A 24/7 confidential hotline where officers can speak to retired law enforcement officers.
    ☎️ 1-800-267-5463

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Tyra Valeriano :

Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where we discuss the world of law enforcement through an honest conversation on tough or controversial topics, real stories, perspectives and experience from officers all around the world. Whether you're here for insights on mental health, self-care, work-life balance, getting into law enforcement, getting out of law enforcement, or just trying to learn about personal and professional challenges officers face every day, you've come to the right place. I'm your host, tyra Valeriano, and whether I'm going solo or speaking with a guest, each episode will discuss different aspects of life behind the badge. Let's turn the page and step into Chapter Blue. Good morning to my listeners. I wanted to introduce you to my guest, tom Smith. Thank you for joining me today.

Tom Smith:

Thank you for having me.

Tyra Valeriano :

Before we jump into our episode, I wanted to acknowledge a few things about your background that I found very interesting. Number one I'm a huge fan of New York PD. I've said it in previous podcasts. I don't know if it was drilled into my head when I was younger. But you guys are like the stars of law enforcement. Head when I was younger. But you guys are like the stars of law enforcement, I don't know. You guys are superheroes. And even though I've done the same job, you guys just seem different. You're like Hollywood for the law enforcement realm.

Tyra Valeriano :

So you have 30 years with New York PD. You're retired now, so congratulations on that. That's a huge accomplishment. The next thing is you have been married for 35 years. That is also a huge accomplishment. The next thing is you have been married for 35 years. That is also a huge accomplishment and I do want to talk about that a little bit later in the podcast. But you know that's rare and I think it's weird sometimes for some people when they say congratulations on your marriage. But it's very rare to have somebody be married for 35 years in today's society and on top of that in law enforcement.

Tyra Valeriano :

And the last thing is you have a podcast where you're a co-host of Gold Shields, and your podcast is very different than mine in many ways, but I find it very interesting and intriguing. So we are going to talk about that. I kind of want to know why you went down that path, and I'm not asking for all of your secrets, but you guys get some really interesting guests on your show. So I am just curious how you guys are able to do that and how you get the ideas for some of the things you talk about, because it is pretty interesting and I think that the listeners would really like that. So, without me just taking up too much more of your time, would you tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you're doing today?

Tom Smith:

Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. You know, we kind of hooked up on LinkedIn when this started and Instagram, and I was so intrigued by your title. I love, first of all, and just what you're doing, and I said that the more of us need to do this because messages that we have need to get out there and people realize that cops are human beings and cops have emotions and they have good days and bad days and backgrounds and families and all that. So I think it's just so important that more of us do this. But, with that being said, like you said and so nicely stated, with the NYPD and you know, it was all I ever wanted to do.

Tom Smith:

My dad was an NYPD detective, so I grew up in that world. I grew up, like you just said, but on my side, idolizing the NYPD and detectives, because my hero was one. You know, my dad and I were very close and that's what I wanted to do and there was kind of no other avenue. I told a lot of people I was either playing baseball or being a cop. That was it, because that's just what I love to do, and the thought of being in the NYPD and following in his footsteps drove me to just everything I wanted to do and pushing myself to every limit, that I had to do the best I could. And that was because my dad he told me when I graduated the academy. He said, listen, if you're going to do this job, do it great. Whether you're answering a phone or doing a homicide case, just do it great. And I thought of that and carried that with me my entire career. You know, doing a case or going to do a briefing or something like that, just saying hey, nail this one, Do this one great. And it's because of him and I had a very fortunate career. You know, working hard is working hard. You know you want to be the best of what you can do, you want to stay safe but you want to make an impact on what you're doing in your career. And I wanted to do that and I think I did. You know I hit every spot. I kind of wanted to hit. The only thing I didn't do that I was.

Tom Smith:

My entire goal in the NYPD was being a homicide squad and the only reason that didn't happen was because 9-11 happened. And 9-11 completely changed my career. You know, I did the patrol plainclothes unit, narcotics, the gang unit and robbery squad in the Bronx. And then 9-11 happened and I would have been very happy being a homicide cop, being a homicide detective in the Bronx. And then 9-11 happened and I would have been very happy being a homicide cop.

Tom Smith:

Being a homicide detective in the Bronx was my goal because my dad did it, so that's what I wanted to do. And then 9-11 happened and blew the world off its center and my career and got asked to join the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force where I spent the last 17 years of my career after 9-11 assigned there and going to different countries and doing large scale terrorism investigations and working with, you know, a lot of government agencies and had a blast doing it. You know, like I said, fortunate career and happy 30 years came and went really fast and 30 sounded like a good number. So that was the end of a good run.

Tyra Valeriano :

Something about an even number. I don't know. I have to agree with that. An even number is always the best.

Tom Smith:

Very much much that.

Tyra Valeriano :

It's funny. You mentioned that you like baseball, so I had a guest last week who also retired from new york pd. Uh, he's been retired for 13 years, but I also know that new york pd is a very huge agency, so I'm not sure that you know him, but I'm gonna ask you anyway. Do you know vincent scotto? No, probably not yes you do? Oh wow.

Tom Smith:

well, I interviewed him last week and we spoke on the phone a few weeks ago.

Tyra Valeriano :

Oh, awesome, yeah, so there you go. I had somebody else from New York PD, but he also mentioned that he liked baseball. So is that something in New York that everybody likes is baseball?

Tom Smith:

You know what In the NYPD the NYPD is very sports driven you have a lot, a lot of athletes that become cops in the city and the NYPD sports teams are always real good, from football, baseball, hockey. Their sports is very close and taken very, very serious. So you do have a lot of athletes that become cops and I noticed that through you know our show there's so many athletes that become cops and go into the military, which I think is a great thing because of the discipline and the time structure you need to train and put into what you're doing with your job. So I think that translates very, very well from athlete to law enforcement and military.

Tyra Valeriano :

Nice, well, I didn't know that New York PD had all of that. That's pretty awesome to hear. You mentioned that you did the last 17 years as a federal agent, so that's very different than working at an agency for a city. What is the biggest difference that you noticed in working both agencies once you switched?

Tom Smith:

Well, I was still. I didn't become a federal agent, I was still assigned to the NYPD. I was still an NYPD detective, but it was a task force that I was assigned to but we worked under all the previews of the FBI. So we were deputized federal agents of the FBI. So we were deputized federal agents but still NYPD detectives. So we had kind of both roles going on.

Tom Smith:

But it's very, very different in the federal world than it is in a city or state run agency because you have so many other resources, different laws, different ways to do things, different procedures. So it did take a little while to get used to that because everything at JTTF is on a federal level, so you're dealing not with the district attorney's office, you're dealing with the United States attorney's office. So there is a big difference with warrants and wiretaps and all that that go into the federal system that you need you know to do on the federal level and the travel you know, and dealing with so many security agencies of a foreign government and different things like that. So it did take a little adjusting to do. But it was a incredible place to work because I did so many things that normal detective in the NYPD doesn't get to do.

Tom Smith:

You know I traveled and worked in 18 different countries. I was in Afghanistan for three months. You know briefing and being in a room with the highest levels of this government officials. You know to brief them on cases. So the opportunities I had were incredible and I loved being there.

Tyra Valeriano :

Yeah, it sounds incredible. That's an amazing career. You did mention something at the beginning of the podcast and that was that police officers are human, so I kind of want to touch on that. Based on your career you said a lot of great things about it At what point did it? Did you have any struggles? I mean during your career, as you know, working in New York as a detective, or did you face any struggles working for the government? What? What is it that you went through that you think that some of our listeners can relate to?

Tom Smith:

You know just the everyday life. You know you're you're bound by what you're doing in your career but you have to balance that with your family and your life. You know to be 24, seven, seven days a week completely job related is going to weigh on you and I learned a long time ago that and my wife helped out with this, being a guidance counselor. You know to talk things through. You know come home from a bad night and talk about it and get it out and get it off your chest, you know, because there's only so much you can keep inside of you before it bubbles over. You know the average person sees and deals with on an average five traumatic events in a lifetime. Okay, and in the span of your life the average person deals with five traumatic events. In the NYPD I could deal with five in an hour working when I did in the city. You know, through the 90s when the city was completely out of control with crime and we were really busy to narcotics, to dealing what we had to in the Joint Terrorism Task Force if an event or a terrorist attack happened, event where a terrorist attack happened you know we could deal with five traumatic events in an hour and now times that by an eight hour shift, you know when we were on patrol or somewhere, a day could be incredible. So understanding that we are human and we do get upset and we do have feelings people need to realize, because then I think you have a better understanding of what this job is all about. And I say it at the end of our show all the time that when you see a cop on the street, give him a wave, you know, say thank you, because you have no idea what that cop just went through. He could have came from one of those traumatic events and he's sitting in his car just thinking about it. This may be. It involved a child and he has a newborn at home, you know, and he has to sit there and deal with that. So to get a wave or a thank you from someone could change his entire day around. And I think that's that's what I mean by the mental part of it.

Tom Smith:

And you know, I had my big thing, mental health wise or trauma wise or whatever. I would have incredibly bad nightmares. That was my thing. I never drank, I never smoked, I really didn't go out that much, so I didn't have that to turn to. Thankfully, you know, that wasn't a hey, let me go have a drink or let me go out or whatever. That wasn't a thing. So mine was just nightmares. I would have really really bad ones, either after something happened at work or days later, or just throughout the course of a week, uh, and some were pretty bad. So that was uh, that was my thing to kind of get through with the job.

Tyra Valeriano :

You mentioned that your wife is a counselor and you also mentioned that she suggested you talk about some of the things that you went through. So you know, being in law enforcement, we've always heard don't talk to your spouse about what you've seen or what you've responded to, and that's kind of I would call it a holy grail. If you were to ask an officer out in the field, they probably would say, oh no, I don't talk to my spouse about it. Maybe not everybody. I talk to my spouse about a lot of things. So for me I can't say that I relate to that. But what is your opinion about, you know, those who feel that they shouldn't talk about certain things with their spouse or talk to them at all, being that that's something you did, you know what I would.

Tom Smith:

I would never get into someone's relationship or suggest someone, you know, do something. Everyone's different, everyone's relationships are different, everyone's communication skills are different, you know, in the way they interact in their marriage. So that all I can say is worked for me, you know, and that's what was important, you know, I was able to come home and say, oh my God, you know, we did this tonight and not it was more, you know, maybe clarified, it wasn't an in-depth oh my God, this, this, this, this happened. It was, hey, we had a busy night. We got in a fight, chased a guy, you know, things like that just to at least get the surface of what the night was like out of you, you know, not to go into just gory details of an accident or a crime scene or something like that, it was just, you know, even to say, come home and say you know what, we had a really busy night. We didn't stop all night, I didn't even eat, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever it might've been, that was sometimes enough, you know, and and my wife realized what the city was like at the time and how busy we were and where I worked.

Tom Smith:

So for me to come home and say we had a busy night. She understood what was going on, you know. And then some some things were unavoidable to tell her exactly what happened. You know, if I got hurt and I was at the hospital, you know, we just we engaged three armed guys who just robbed the supermarket, big shootout in the middle of Broadway. One of our cops got shot. He was injured, he was, he survived, he was shot in the leg. But Ralph, who got shot, was at our wedding, you know. So it was. It was, that was a big event that had to had to involve a little bit more detail of what happened. But things like that, I just think it's up to the individual couple to find a good spot, you know, to talk things out.

Tyra Valeriano :

I agree with that and same here. I mean, my husband would be interested in some of the details sometimes, but I would have to tell him. Like you know, this isn't something I can talk to you about, even though I would love to. But yeah, I agree with that completely. I mentioned in the beginning, you've been married for 35 years. Obviously, communication is a huge part of your relationship, as you've already said. What is a I don't know what is it that you would call the glue to your relationship? To be together for 35 years and last through an entire career with a lot of, I guess, deployments, you can call them. And now here you are and you guys are still holding on strong.

Tom Smith:

Communication, like we just talked about, and you know time management, you know, and here's the other weird thing about this or interesting thing about this. I should say, what we just talked about with coming home from work and being able to talk about that foot pursuit or that fight or whatever, was involved in my career up until I got to the Joint Terrorism Task Force. Once I got to JTTF, I couldn't talk to her anymore. She was not because of the security levels of the cases we were running. I wasn't able to talk to her anymore about what I was doing. So that was rough, that took some getting used to on both our parts, because she would say, hey, why do you have to go to California? And I would just, hey, I got a meeting. And it might not be a meeting, it might be something else, but I'm telling her it was a meeting. There were times that I went to Texas and told her I was in Florida just because of the security concerns or security reasons of the cases we were running, of the security concerns or security reasons of the cases we were running. And I mentioned before going to Afghanistan for three months. She knew I was going to Afghanistan but had no idea why that's hard. That was hard on both sides not to tell her what was going on and her, for three months living at home taking care of three kids, not knowing why. I was in the middle of a war zone, you know.

Tom Smith:

So it was a lot of communication, a lot of understanding on her part. She got it. You know, that was the best thing about our relationship. We met before I got in the NYPD so, and she was very close to my parents, so she knew my dad's and I relationship. So she knew my dad's and I relationship. So she knew what was coming. She knew my drive and what the job meant to me and pretty much knew my personality. So she knew how I was going to be. You know I wasn't going to be sitting by the desk, that's for sure. So she understood what this was all about before I got on. So and her relationship with my mom and with my sisters, talking to them about where I was or what I was doing, or he's okay, was a big part of getting through everything we got through. Are we perfect.

Tom Smith:

You know no Things. You know things happen, you know, in marriages. But we were always up front with one another. And I think one of the other big things was time management. A lot of times I had the opportunity to schedule what I was doing, so it was okay. I'm going away next week, what's the week like with the kids? What's going on, who's where, who's got to help out with what? And thank God for her, because there's no way I would have had a 30-year career in the level that I did without her, with taking care of the kids the way she did on top of her full-time job. You know there were times she got pulled in three different directions between softball and baseball and dance and all that and and it worked out great and, uh, I thank God every day for.

Tyra Valeriano :

Wow, that's amazing. How many kids do you guys have? Three three kids. Are they adults now?

Tom Smith:

Yeah, they are. I don't, I don't, I don't, I. I whisper that because I can't believe they are, but yes, they are. They're all starting their careers after their master's degrees in college and all that. So it is very weird to say that and see them, but they're the best kids in the world and I'm so proud of the way they are and never got in trouble, Was great in school. What had? My daughter had a incredibly successful softball career in college. My other little girl has a great career dancing. She danced in college, you know, and all that. And my son is going into law enforcement, you know. So it's. I'm very proud of them.

Tyra Valeriano :

I was just about to ask you did somebody decide to join law enforcement?

Tom Smith:

Yep, he's going to go into it I don't want to say where because I'm superstitious and things are starting with that, so I don't want to jinx anything. But he had kind of the same feeling I did growing up in wanting this and the excitement of it and what it can do for you. So he's going to pick up the family business and continue it.

Tyra Valeriano :

Awesome. Well, I want to go back to your retirement. When did you retire? What year In?

Tom Smith:

2020. I retired one week before COVID hit the world.

Tyra Valeriano :

Oh, wow, okay. So the reason why I ask that is because you obviously had a good dose of what law enforcement was a while back, compared to what it is, even just a little bit before 2020. Because I want to say that things have only progressively gotten worse from then. So you kind of have an idea. What would you say is the most difficult transition that you've noticed law enforcement had since you actually experienced it?

Tom Smith:

Yeah, On the job. You mean, yes, like the job dramatically changed. You know, because here's why, when I say this all the time the worst thing for any law enforcement department to handle is politics getting into law enforcement. That never works. It doesn't work. You know, are there some parts that it does work when you have people who are so backing you up and have your back and supporting you yes, it does.

Tom Smith:

But when you start letting outside influences change your policing and your tactics, that's when cops get hurt and the whole defund the police dramatically hurt police departments, it hurt recruiting, it hurt the way cops work. You know, back when I worked, you did your job. You went out, you locked up bad guys. Did you get in of cops getting you know in altercations and all this. And I yell all the time that cops are allowed to defend themselves. If they're getting attacked, they're allowed to fight back. And you see so many times that cops don't do that. They just like kind of hold on to the person they're fighting, waiting for their backup to show up or whatever, to the person they're fighting, waiting for their backup to show up or whatever. And that's when they get hurt because they're so afraid of the ramifications that these politicians and liberal DAs put on law enforcement and that specter or shadow over law enforcement of oh my God, can I do this? I'm going to get in trouble for this While someone's attacking you.

Tom Smith:

That's running through these young cops' minds and that's why they're all getting hurt and that's why they're all, after they get hurt, leaving the job because they have no backing and they have no support system. That is saying go out and do your job, I got your back. Yes, if you're wrong, you're wrong and we'll deal with that. I'm not saying that it's a blanket support system, you know. But if you're doing your job and it's an action of the heart that you're, you know your intentions are good then we're going to have your back and that's not happening in today's policing.

Tom Smith:

Hopefully it changes, you know now. Hopefully it does and you get more young cops that want to do this job again because it's needed. The numbers around this country are so low in every department because of situations like this and cops getting hurt and saying you don't have my back, I'm out of here. Why am I going to work for you of you? And I understand that it's sad, but I understand it, but that that's the biggest dramatic change that I've seen from when I worked to what's going on today.

Tyra Valeriano :

So, being that your son is about to join law enforcement, what is? Some tips, maybe, that you've provided him, or that you want to provide him, to let him know what he's getting himself into these days?

Tom Smith:

Yeah, you know it's. It's protect yourself, do what you need to do to protect yourself, and go home at night, and then we'll figure it out. You know that was kind of all all hours. You know, go home, make sure you go home at the end of the night and that is the main goal and that's just what I pass on. And he's he's very good at defending himself, you know. So on a couple of different levels, so that's a good thing, but it's just it's being secure in who you are and what you can do.

Tom Smith:

Can every cop handle every situation? No, you know. So you got to find your niche of what works, what you're good at, what you find enjoyable, and have that in your head of wanting to go to work every day. You know, I tell him all the time and I say, when I speak at police academies or in colleges, when people ask me about this job, and I said you can't like it, you have to love it. You can't liking this job, you're not going to be successful, You're not going to get to where you want to be and you're probably going to get hurt. If you just like it, if you love it, you're going to put more into it and be more focused on your career and what you want out of it than just liking the job.

Tyra Valeriano :

I agree with that. I would say it's a love hate relationship, if you're honest. It's a love hate relationship relationship because there's not going to be every day. You're loving your job every time you're going. I mean there is definitely some rough times in there, but I absolutely agree with that. I kind of want to talk about your podcast now. So you've been retired since 2020. When did you start your podcast and how did you get into these interviews that you do and the people that you talk to? What kind of geared you to go that route?

Tom Smith:

well, thank you for bringing it up, because I'm really proud of of what it's become and we started. We're going into our, we just started our third season, uh, which blows our mind and I'll tell you why. The story behind this and why going into season three is so, you know, great for us and the feeling we have doing it. But you know the reason. We asked before the reason we started it and I called my partner, dan Murphy, who and Dan and I worked together in the NYPD. He was my sergeant in the gang unit and then he was my sergeant again in the terrorism task force and we were always friends. Even then he was my sergeant again in the terrorism task force and we were always friends Even when he was my boss. We would just, we clicked when we met and, just, you know, continue to be friends for all these years.

Tom Smith:

And I rolled the idea by him one day and just said, hey, what do you think about doing a podcast? And he kind of he was on the phone with me and went, ok, all right, great, what are we doing? And then we, you know, we did a lot of talking and at the time there was so much, like I just stated before so much garbage going on with law enforcement and getting thrown under the bus and vilified and all that, and the military as well that we said there's so many great stories out there that no one knows and we have enough contacts in working when we did and how long we did we could get some good stories out there that people don't know about and kind of give people a backstage pass to some of these investigations or military missions. You may know about it, but not the whole story. So the other thing we do on our show is we don't talk about other people's cases. You know we're not sitting on a camera or on a couch just rattling off a case from whenever we get the people who actually did those cases on our show and they tell their own story. And that is the best thing in the world, because even we don't know the background of some of these cases. You know I'll do most of the booking and getting the guests and all that and that's why I get them. You know, all right, I know about it, but tell me more about it and some of the stories that we've gotten and heard, the you know behind the scenes information on these cases, blow our mind and if anyone watches our show, the reaction we have to some of these is legit, because when we talk to our guests, we tell them. I don't want to hear the whole story. When I'm talking to you before the show, tell us on the show, because we want our reactions to be authentic and our emotions to be authentic, and they are.

Tom Smith:

We've been really caught off guard sometimes with some of the stories that we hear and what had happened in certain situations. I think that's the best part of our show. We don't have a script. We tell people all the time it's three or four people sitting around a bar talking, that's all it is, and Dan and I kind of guardrail the show. Our names are on it. It's our show, yeah, but our show is our guests. They run the show and Our names are on it. It's our show, yeah, but our show is our guests, they run the show and their stories and you know that was a big part of why you know we wanted to do it.

Tom Smith:

And when I talk about season three and I laugh that we're at this point because when we started we had seven shows lined up and that was it. We didn't know what number eight was going to be. We were. We got to like three or four and started to panic a little like all right, what are we doing next week or in a couple of weeks? And then it kind of just it kind of took off and we started to get phone calls from people hey, can I be on your show?

Tom Smith:

I did this case. Or getting recommended. Hey, you guys should I did this case. Or getting recommended. Hey, you guys should talk to this guy or this you know girl, about what happened in this case. And it just went from there. I was happy, legitimately thrilled, if I had a show two weeks booked out. I was like cool, I don't have to do anything for two weeks. Now we're already booked into April and you know it's just an amazing ride, meeting the best people in the world who put so much into it. And we went from law enforcement and the military. And then we have victims on, we have survivors on you know of these crimes and their stories and then hit on the mental health issue that police officers and military vets deal with. So we have that angle now. So it's it's just a great ride and we're proud of where we're at and the guests that we have and relationships that we now have, people I can call friends now that three years ago would have never entered my head, so that means a lot to us.

Tyra Valeriano :

Well, congratulations. It sounds very successful. And you know, I find the approach that you guys took on who it is that you interviewed to be very interesting because even as a police officer, you know we yes, we care when we're dealing with people's situations. I kind of want to give you the example of a domestic violence victim. You know we deal with these people over and over and over again and then eventually we are just like what do you want us to do? And we kind of lose that empathy side when we're dealing with somebody over and over. But when you hear somebody's story from the other side, it kind of gives you a little bit of a different perspective and lens to reconnect with that side and be like OK, you know, let me regroup and see how I can be better if I'm going to be doing this as my job, of course speaking from a law enforcement side, and it gives the public some kind of idea on the dynamic of a case, a victim and the person who's working the case. It's a really good approach that you guys have.

Tyra Valeriano :

When did you guys first start your podcast? What year?

Tom Smith:

We started in January of 2023.

Tyra Valeriano :

Yeah, 2023. 2023. January 2023.

Tom Smith:

We did you know what we did about two months of research before we kicked it off and we did more checking about what we didn't want to do than what we wanted to do. We knew what we wanted to do, but we wanted to do research of what we didn't want to be and what we didn't want to portray ourselves as. We didn't want to be the two cops of hey remember when we did that. We didn't want to do that because that's going to last about three shows and no one's going to listen. So that's why we wanted to get more of a dynamic approach with stories. You know we you fall into the category of true crime, which you kind of you find a niche and you get in there, but we are a true crime podcast. But I think we're more of a true story podcast, which is what we like to tell people when we're doing these shows, because the stories are incredible and you would think like you you just said, you know these cases but you don't know what went into it. And sometimes you think cases are exciting and they hit these detectives hard mentally.

Tom Smith:

Just to give you an example, if I could, anthony Espada was on our show in the beginning in season one and if you remember the story of the three young girls who were kidnapped in Cleveland for 10 years and then they were found 10 years later. Anthony was the police officer who found them after one escaped and all you would think the regular person, lay person we are. Oh my God, how exciting is that. You got them, they're home, you save them. And that was a really small part for Anthony. That hit him really, really hard mentally with going in that house and seeing what these girls had to deal with for 10 years and not coming out of a bedroom and being chained up and you know all that. And having a baby in that house by the captor. Who's the father, you know? So it's not TV, it's not a movie. Emotions are real and sometimes it catches you off guard of what's going to hit you a certain way and we get that in our stories for sure.

Tyra Valeriano :

Wow, you know. I'm glad you brought up the mental health aspect because I know you mentioned in a little earlier that you kind of struggled with nightmares and I wanted to go back to that because I'm curious to hear uh, what did you do for the, the calls, or you know the struggles that you had with mental health. How did you deal with that? What was your go-to or what worked for you?

Tom Smith:

You know it was sports, it was coaching. Uh, I coached softball and baseball for about 17 years, you know, with my kids and it was really being involved in just family. Stuff was my out and sports. I'm a big, huge sports guy. You know I was still playing for a long time. We're big sports families, so something is a big game on everyone's watching, you know, if they're not here, with texting each other to see that play, to see that. So that had a lot to do with it.

Tom Smith:

But back, you know, when I was in the police department, the stigma of don't say anything, you're going to lose your shield, you're going to lose your gun and you're going to be sitting behind a desk forever was 100% real and unfortunately, that's the. That was the job back then. You know it was kind of like hey, you're a cop, deal with it. You're supposed to, you're supposed to deal with things like this? Of course you are, but you'll be okay, you know. So a lot of that was all right. I'll be okay, I go to sleep, wake up. I didn't have a nightmare. Okay, cool, it worked. You know it was. Was that right? No, by any stretch no, but I just found that was my, you know experience with it, where others do go and talk to someone or some fall into bad dark situations with alcoholism and domestic abuse and drug abuse. You know we're trying to deal with it on their own without going to talk to someone.

Tom Smith:

You know one of our big affiliates on our show is Copline and it's a 24-hour day, seven-day-a-week, 365 hotline that you know law enforcement can call to talk to a retired law enforcement officer who's been there and gone through it, so it's not just someone on the other end of a phone and I encourage everyone to do that. You know how we dealt with. It wasn't right, but it was the time that we were police officers. Right or wrong, it was what it was, you know. So you didn't talk to anyone and you saw the ramifications of that with people you worked with, you know, in struggles that they had. So today there's so many outlets you know for officers to go into and we implore that every show that we do, every time I go and speak in an academy or whatever.

Tom Smith:

You're not Superman. You may think you are. You may act like it every once in a while, but you're not. You're flesh and blood. You got a brain, you got feelings, you got images that you will never ever get out of your head and if you need to talk to someone, you need to talk to someone, and that is more important than your job. I understand your career supporting your family I get it but if your mental health breaks down, everything is going to break down your job and your family.

Tyra Valeriano :

You know it's interesting with that, because I want to say that the mental health it's been around for a long time. It just hasn't been addressed. It's been put under the rug for ever until these past few years I've noticed a huge tick in people being more aware of mental health in law enforcement. What I find very interesting about this is people like you who have retired and actually went through a long career where you experienced that stigma where, hey, we don't talk about this, and you come around and you say, hey, if you need to talk about it, it's OK, because this is what it does. And I remember when I got into law enforcement. I want to say I heard something very similar to that. You know, you're human, just remember if you need to talk to someone. It was very brief, but it wasn't as serious.

Tyra Valeriano :

So now that it's becoming more dominant in law enforcement to address these issues, I think it's great. I think that people really need to hear the consequences that you can have long term if you're not dealing with things that you need to deal with because of the career and it's not always about the career. It may be what it does to your personal life, what it does to your finances, what it does to your sleep, to your health. I mean there's a big spectrum of what comes from mental health and law enforcement and the fact that you're even talking about it and you've had years of experience where it's a stigma. We don't. We don't talk about that, we don't deal with it. It's great, it's good to hear you talking about it.

Tom Smith:

Yeah, and you know what. It's not just what's going on in the job, it's your family too. You know if there's a problem at home and you're in law enforcement, you know that can be a conversation as well, because at some point they're going to cross. At some point problems are. You know whether it's just job related or just family. At some point it is unavoidable they are going to cross.

Tom Smith:

And you're going to go to a job. That's a heavy job and you're going to be going down a dark alley or into a dark apartment and something in your head is going to click about what's going on at home and that's dangerous. They are going to cross and that's what we want to get out there to try to avoid, because the numbers lately, like you just said, are astronomical, with suicides and murder, suicides and all of that. It's just numbers we've never seen. And the reason is the lack of understanding of there's problems and they need to be addressed and departments getting on board with that and not hitting someone with a hammer if they come with a problem, you know, and understanding and being more conscious of hey, it's a good thing, this person came and talked to us, it's not bad, you know, being having something wrong is okay. You know, admitting something's wrong is okay, and that's how you start down the road of good mental health and helping officers out.

Tyra Valeriano :

And I talked to Vincent last week about this, since he worked in New York. But I was already kind of on this path for mental health and wellness and law enforcement and first responders in general because of an experience I had as a supervisor. But I remember shortly after getting out of law enforcement and hearing about the suicides in New York PD and I could not believe it. I really feel like that is when I dove into this space, because I wanted to understand why. You know, just like everybody else, why are they doing this? What's going on? Of course we're not going to have those answers, but for people who's who's done the job and we understand that, hey, we're not okay, we just didn't say something I think this was a huge reminder as to why this should be at the forefront, why we need to be talking about it and why we need to provide resources.

Tyra Valeriano :

You know I stress on the fact that resources don't have to be out of your agency. You know at least the agency should be providing first responders or officers resources to reach out on their own without having to go through their supervisor or something that's going to make them feel uncomfortable. But I think that slowly but surely, we're getting there. There's a lot of people now in this space and it's slowly changing. It's going to take a long time, but it's getting there, so I do think that you know this is important.

Tom Smith:

Yeah, I agree, it's getting better, it's getting there. And for conversations like this, it's getting there. And for conversations like this, platforms that we have other officers that have platforms and books and seminars and all that. There's so much more out there. You're 100% right, it's getting better, but a little bit more needs to be done and hopefully we get over that hump.

Tyra Valeriano :

I want to ask you what your transition out of law enforcement was like. Did you struggle with that at all? I mean, I want to say I didn't even serve half the time you did. But you know I struggled with identity issues. If I'm not a cop, what am I, you know? But did you have any struggles? Or were you just like, hey, I'm good to go, I'm ready to live my life and let's take on the world?

Tom Smith:

How did you feel about that transition? Yeah, you know it was weird. It was definitely odd because I did it at the time. I retired for more than half my life. That's what I did, you know and I say this to people all the time they kind of laugh a little bit. It's like it's like walking forwards for 30 years and then someone tell you you got to walk backwards, you're going to struggle, you're going to trip, you're going to fall a couple of times, but eventually you'll get it. And that's kind of what retirement was like to me. I didn't hit me as hard as I thought it would. I thought I'd be a little worse. A little worse.

Tom Smith:

You know you miss the action, you miss the running around, but then when you don't have to do it, you go OK, good, I'm not, I don't have to do that anymore. You know, the year I retired, that summer was the riots and everything going on around the country and in New York, and it was the first time in 30 years that I watched everything on TV and not down there. I didn't have to look at my phone and wait for, hey, get into the office. So when you see situations like that, you go okay, I'm good. You know I got out. I got out physically okay. You know, nothing really banged. I got out physically Okay. You know nothing really banged up the Knicks and all that stuff. My head is okay, my brain's okay. You know I'm one of the ones who said, okay, I made it, we're good, move on next page. You know life is life is short, but it's long, and what I mean by that is it's short. Sometimes that it's it speeds up to speed. You're like, oh my God, stop, slow down. But then when you retire you kind of go I still have a whole, nother half of my life to do something. Let's do it Whatever it is. That's the best part of retiring you do whatever you want. No one's telling you what to do anymore. No one's telling you what to wear, no one's telling you what time to be somewhere. You're it. So you get to decide something that might have been on your mind for a long. Oh my God, I would love to do that. Or let me go do that. Now you can do it, and that's the best part of retirement being your own boss and kind of dictating what you want to do in the next part of your life.

Tom Smith:

I was going to ask you you didn't get that sudden urge to be like I wish I was out there. Oh yeah, oh, I'm not going to lie, that was Yep. But then again, like I said, it's a, it's a quick feeling. And the reason it's a quick feeling is because that's where, that's how you were. You couldn't get away from that because you saw something on the news or saw something on TV. You knew you were going to be there. So I was like, ok, let me, let me just get ready for that. Now it's a oh wow, you know, I wish I was down there. Then you kind of go no, I don't, I really don't anymore. I've done my riots, I've done my. You know all that, you know it takes a second, or two.

Tom Smith:

But you know, that's that's kind of what happened with me. You get all, oh, wow, Look at those guys. And no, no, I'm good, no, I'm okay.

Tyra Valeriano :

Yeah, okay. Well, we are coming close to an end. I haven't asked this in a little bit, but I normally like to ask my guests at the end of a podcast what is one thing that you can take away from your career that you would want to tell your rookie self. And the reason why I asked this is because, for the listeners out there who are just starting their career or they're wanting to be law enforcement, I want them to take this advice and hopefully apply it to their career.

Tom Smith:

That is a outstanding question. That's a great question, and I get asked that when I go into an academy or criminal investigation course and talk to detectives about certain things or definitely college what's the number one thing you could tell us and exactly how you stated it? And I say the same thing all the time Work on your communication skills. That is the number one thing I will tell every cop to do, because if you don't know how to talk to someone and you don't know how to deal with someone, you are not going to be successful, you're not going to grow in the job, you're not going to be empathetic at scenes, you're not going to know how to talk to a suspect, a witness, someone who just wants to be a good citizen and tell you something. You're not going to be able to do that. So the more people you talk to in your career, the better. Get out of your car, walk through a neighborhood, play with the kids who are playing basketball on the corner for five minutes. You know all things like that.

Tom Smith:

Communication is international. Maybe different languages, might be different customs, but communication skills work around the world. You know, I could have a conversation with someone hanging out on a corner in the Bronx. The same way I can drive down the streets in Kabul in Afghanistan and have a conversation with someone, because it's the same skill and communications is a skill and you need to do that to be a successful police officer, detective, sergeant, whatever you're going to be. How you talk to your own people as a supervisor, you know all of that all goes into the same kind of basket of communications and I will tell people that all the time. The physical part you'll get, you'll train, you'll get, you'll train, you'll work out, you'll learn the skill. You'll have firearms you'll practice, you'll do that and you'll obtain the skills necessary to do that. Communication is the same way. If you don't practice and don't use it, you're not going to know what to do or what to say in a situation that might be really, really important.

Tyra Valeriano :

I think that's a very important skill and you know what I'm going to have to say, being out of law enforcement. It's been about two and a half years now Since I started the podcast. It's like I've had to pick up on that skill again because you well, for me personally, I didn't really want to deal with people anymore, I just wanted to be around my family.

Tyra Valeriano :

So I didn't really talk to people and this is definitely sharpened that skill for me, because you do it a lot in law enforcement and it is important and if if you don't work on it, it's going to go, and if you never work on it it'll never come. So I think that's great for the listeners. Is there any contact information you want to share with them if they want to reach out to you?

Tom Smith:

to share with them if they want to reach out to you. Yeah, check our show out. It's on YouTube, it's on every audio channel you can think of. You can get in touch with us on Instagram at the Gold Shield Show, or you can definitely get in touch with us on our website, thegoldshieldshowcom. There's a whole different sections about past shows and there's two buttons there. You can go right to YouTube, you can go right to Spotify and there's a contact sheet there where you can shoot us an email and let us know what you're an idea for the show, a guest for the show, or just talk and say hi, we get those too, so anything like that. And check us out, like I said on on every audio channel some that I don't even know we're on, which is great. Sometimes I get an email going hey, you hit this. Okay, you didn't even know we were on that channel. Uh, and youtube is great, so check us out there as well. Uh, youtubecom. Slash at gold shields.

Tyra Valeriano :

Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I have had a really good time talking to you. I find your story and what you're doing very interesting. For those of you who are listening, please check out his podcast. Tune in to all the stations that he shared with you. If you guys want to reach out to him and pick his brain because I know that I'm still going to want to know more after this reach out to him and all of the contact information that he shared to the listeners. Thank you for tuning in, be safe and I will see you on the next one. Thank you for joining me on Chapter Blue. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to follow and tag me on social media and share with your friends and fellow officers. If you're interested in joining an episode, I'd love for you to be a part of the conversation. Until next time, stay safe, take care of yourself and remember you're never alone in this journey.