The Real Lawyer: Lucy Fato (Part 3)

In this final episode, Lucy Fato shares her leadership journey at Seaport Entertainment, navigating the complexities of real estate, hospitality, and live events. She reflects on how lessons from past challenges continue to shape her approach to decision-making and team leadership.

Lucy offers candid insights on servant leadership, the importance of mentorship, and why clarity is kindness. Her perspective on resilience and growth is both inspiring and practical for anyone aspiring to lead with purpose.

Tune in for a conversation filled with wisdom and warmth, and discover how Lucy is making an impact while looking toward the future of legal and corporate leadership.

Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:05.07)
Welcome back to the Real Lawyer Podcast. I'm your host, Joy Sophia Hsu, and you're listening to part three of my conversation with the one and only Lucy Fatil, legal maverick, brilliant business leader, and a truly compassionate and authentic human. This is always my favorite part of the interview because I get to learn more about my guests' life outside of work.

And in this episode, you will hear a number of really great life lessons from Lucy.

Speaker 2 (00:41.656)
So Lucy, I'd love to talk a little bit more about your life outside of work. And I'm curious how you feel generally about how much separation you have between work and personal life. Because I'm thinking in your work from day to day, you're inundated with all those complex questions, legal issues, relationship issues, personnel communication issues.

et cetera, you're dealing with some of the most high stakes, most complex issues that anyone would come across in the corporate world. And at the same time, I I know you personally, and you are a great parent, you are a great daughter, a great sister, a great friend to many. So I'm curious if you...

tend to go into one mode and then shift to the other? Or do you find yourself generally staying pretty fluid as far as how you go about your day? Could you talk about that for a bit?

Yeah, no, look, mean, you know, my work has always been a very big part of my life. My daughters are used to me working full time. I have ever since they were born. So they're accustomed to me going to work. They're accustomed to me missing things at school because I'm away or I'm traveling. So I don't think I change anything about myself. I don't have the energy or the capacity to do that.

And I'm also the kind of person where I can't just like go home on a Friday and say, not gonna look at my email till Monday. Like there may be a day here in their world I'll do that if I have something planned or it's a special occasion, but it's just not my personality. I would rather know what's going on at work than not know. Not everything needs a response right away. And so I think what I've gotten better at

Speaker 1 (02:51.912)
is knowing what's going on, but saying, okay, that can wait till Monday, I don't need to respond. Or this one, I do need to respond and I'll just feel better responding and getting that out of the way and off my plate and then I have to worry about it anymore. Because I don't like the idea of ever coming to work on a Monday and not knowing like what's gonna be in my inbox that makes me very nervous and gives me agitator. So.

So I know I've been a very poor example to my daughters with phones because it's hard to tell your kids to stay off their phones because it's all about the phones nowadays when you're constantly like with yours. Yeah. Although I try to tell them the difference between social stuff and work stuff, which they don't fully understand yet, but hopefully they will soon. But, you know, I

For me, I'm just who I am. I'm not really that different at work than I am with my friends, than I am with my family. I just am who I am. And I'm just, I'm not able to really change that and say, okay, now I'm with my friends and I'm just, I'm not going to talk about my work at all. I mean, it's too big of a part of, it's too big of a part of my life. And it's, my work has always been a big part of who I am and how I feel.

And what I'm doing in other aspects, know, there are jobs I've had where I had a lot more time to go on vacations and spa weekends with girlfriends. And then there have been times where I've had absolutely no time to do that stuff. and so it's sort of ebbs and flows, but, I think most of my friends and certainly my family just know that that's sort of who I am and how I operate. But as I get older, I'm really focused on.

trying to find more time to be honest, frankly, just for myself. I always have that image of, you're on an airplane and they say if the oxygen comes out, put your own mask on first and then put it on the person next to you, even if that's a child, right? Like you can't help others if you don't help yourself first with the mask. And I feel, I feel that way with personal stuff. Like if I don't do some of the things that make me feel good about myself, like

Speaker 1 (05:06.668)
going to the salon and getting a manicure, getting my color done or going to Bergdorf and walking around and looking at all the pretty things that I like, you know, as I want to do. not as much these days as I did when I was younger, but, you know, if I don't find time to do those things, I'm not necessarily going to just be happy if I go home and spend the weekend with my kids. mean, of course I adore my children and I love spending weekends with them.

but they're not used to me being home all weekend. So when I am, I'm like half the time I'm in the way. They're like, I'm doing my homework. I'm like, what's going on? I'm doing my homework. You know, like the door. Yeah, leave me alone. I'm doing my homework or I'm talking to my friend. I'm FaceTiming with a friend. Like they have their own lives now. And so, you know, I feel like it's not productive for me to just go home and be there and do nothing else. And my daughters would look at me like, who is this person? Like that's.

That's not who we're used to having around here. So I feel very lucky and I'm hoping that my girls are seeing that you can be independent, you can work, you can have a career, you can be at home. And you know, I'm not someone who believes in having it all, like whatever that means. I don't even know what that means. I don't think anybody has it all. You've either given up a career to be, to stay home or you've given up hobbies to be able to slap your kids around every weekend to play different sports and things like that.

you know, there's just, there is no having it all. No one has it all. No one, no CEO, male or female, no CFO, male or female. You know, I don't think anybody has it all because in order to be all in on one thing, you've had to give up a lot of other things. So I would rather find different ways to balance out, but not forget about myself and make sure I'm taking care of myself too. and that's

really what's worked for me, I think, over time. And now, you know, when I go to the salon, I take my girls with me. Hey, do you wanna go get your hair trimmed? Or do you wanna go get your nails done? And sometimes they'll say, no, not this time. But sometimes they're like, yeah, I wanna get my hair done. Will they braid it for me? Like, yes, of course they'll braid it for you. And so now I get to do some of those things. And my girls are 12 and 14, so I think over time I'll probably do more of those things with them.

Speaker 1 (07:27.49)
But they know, you know, just a few weekends ago, I went away to a spa with a few girlfriends for three days and they're used to me doing that too. And I hope when they're older that I'll get to take them to these places when they're old enough to go. And then hopefully they'll start going on their own with their own friends as they get older. Cause it's important to spend time with your girlfriends. So I try, you know, I don't know. think I'm

probably the one that suffers in the end trying to spread myself too thin because then you throw in friends that you want to have dinners with and professional, you know, your professional network that you want to keep up with. So, you know, my days are pretty busy. I try to space things out as best I can, but I find that a lot of people reach out and want to get together even if it's just for coffee and.

I usually assume there's a reason people are reaching out and they want to talk about something or just check in or just spend some time together. And so I try to accommodate that, you know, as best I can and I enjoy it. So I think I'm getting better at it. Certainly in my latest job, I think I'm getting better at it because I now work at a hospitality company that's about food and beverage and we have a lot of restaurants. So I say to people, come to the seaport. Come to the seaport. I'll take you for coffee.

Yeah, sounds like lot of fun.

you know, the tin building where it's, you know, it's all John George and it's really yummy food or let's have dinner after work and I'll host you at the tin building and, you know, tell me what kind of food you like. And, and they treat me nicely when I go, cause I work here, which is It's a nice perk. And it's my fourth time working in downtown Manhattan. Again, I feel like everything happens for a reason. meant to constantly be coming back to this part of town. don't know why. but it's easier for me to mix.

Speaker 1 (09:16.13)
social stuff in with my work life now because of the industry that I'm in. Very easy when I have business meetings with people, I'll say, let's just go to the Fulton and have lunch and talk about it over there instead of just coming to the office. Cause it's, you know, I walk out and it's, you know, 50 feet ahead of me. Right. So I'm able to like have nice meals. I'm happy to meet with people and I can either do it socially or professionally, but I'm also learning about my industry at the same time and learning about our assets.

Although I will say the food is a problem because I put on a few pounds and that's the one big negative. John George, it's hard to say no to. His food is amazing.

It is. But you know, have the water right there and the pier and you just walk it off. That's very easy.

Yeah, I I look out my office I look out at the East River the Brooklyn Bridge, it's gorgeous Beautiful our views in our building are Probably some of the best in the world really I mean iconic right use The seaport is a historic landmark. I'm learning a lot about the history going back to the 1600s, which is fascinating really

And so it's a very, very interesting place to work. It's still a historic landmark. The city owns the property. We have a ground lease. So we operate it and we're the landlord, but we don't own the ground. It's owned by the city because it's a landmark. But we own the buildings and we lease out, you know, many things. So we're a landlord and an owner of some of the buildings, but not all of them.

Speaker 1 (11:01.71)
So it's been interesting. learning a lot about the city of New York and needing to get approvals from the city of New York. I've never done that. I've always been more on the federal and state level, not the city level, which is a whole different animal. I miss those days being intimidated by the DOJ.

Speaker 1 (11:26.254)
New York City is very hard to navigate, very hard. We are a complicated city. Really? Oh my goodness. You've got the city and then you have the state and then you have community boards. We have a city council. There's like all these different voices that weigh in depending on what it is. And different agencies. It's not just one agency. It depends on what you're doing and where, know, who has jurisdiction. So I'm learning a whole new part of

sort of our political system and how it operates, which is a very steep learning curve for me. Because I've always been an SEC lawyer, maybe DOJ when I was at S &P, New York Department of Financial Services, which is the insurance regulator. But I've never had to deal with the various city agencies. There are many of them.

Fascinating.

yeah, I'm learning all about liquor licenses. I'm in charge of liquor licenses. I'm learning all about lobbying at the city level and what does that mean and how do you do it and how do do it properly? So I'm learning, learning a lot about real estate, which is not something I really focused on in my career. We own a AAA minor league baseball team in Las Vegas. So I'm learning a lot about major league baseball and the

firm grip they have on their teams. But it's fun. It's all fun and different, really fun, interesting industries. Hospitality is very, very different from financial services. Very different.

Speaker 2 (13:03.734)
A very, a whole new kind of grid for you to work on.

Yeah, equally complex, lots of problem solving that needs to be done, but just in a very, very different context, very different personalities. It's quite interesting and I'm really enjoying it a lot and really like the people. That's good. People who go into hospitality tend to be hospitable.

Speaker 1 (13:35.468)
They like to be around people. tend to like to be around people. They tend to like creating experiences for people. And they're very, very focused on what is the guest experience from the moment they set foot on your property until they leave. Like, what is that experience? So I'm learning a lot about that kind of a mindset, which is very, very different from financial services. Very different.

Yeah. So Lucy, we've talked a lot about a lot of different things, your life path, your career path. And I am really interested in hearing if you wouldn't mind sharing about a couple of your biggest lessons that you've learned along the way.

Speaker 1 (14:27.776)
Yeah, it's a great question.

Speaker 1 (14:38.766)
You know, I would say one lesson I've learned is that

at least in my professional life, is that it's important to recognize

Speaker 1 (14:58.97)
when you are recognized for the value that you bring and when you're not. And I kind of, learned that lesson a long time ago from my father, which has been resonating with me. My father passed away a long time ago. But in a personal situation, I think I mentioned I was married early, got divorced.

had moved away and come back to the East Coast. And I remember dreading calling my parents who were, you Italian immigrants, very Catholic. And I remember calling home and my dad answered and I told him that things weren't working out and I was going to come home. and I didn't know what to expect. And he said to me, if you're not being valued for what you bring to this relationship, you need to leave and you need to come home.

and you need to do it now. And, you know, it was such a gift at that time. I don't like really, I don't think I recognized it as such back then, but I think about that a lot as I've gone through my career and I've moved jobs. You know, I think it's important to recognize if you're not being valued for what you bring and moving on, on your own terms.

not letting people take advantage of you, not letting people just use you for the things that perhaps are good for them, but not for you, and losing sight of what is in your own best interests. And so I think that's a lesson that I learned. I learned it earlier because of my dad in a personal context, but I think it took me a lot longer to realize it in a professional context.

And so I'm someone who's usually going the extra mile and constantly trying to like do the right thing and spend as much time as necessary. And that's great if you're being recognized and valued and people understand what you're doing. But if they don't, you have to ask yourself, why am I doing this? You know, I'm sacrificing other things and if it's not working out, then you know, maybe it's time to move on.

Speaker 1 (17:22.829)
And not being afraid to do that because there's always something else to do and something like I said I am a big believer that everything in life happens for a reason whether it's a good reason or a bad reason but there's a reason for it and you're meant to go on and do other things. So I think that was a very important lesson that I learned which was to value yourself and understand what your value is and make sure that no matter where you are whether it's professionally or personally or with a friend

Are you being valued or are you being taken advantage of? And sometimes you need to sever certain relationships if you think they're one sided or they're just not healthy for you anymore. So I think that was definitely a big life lesson for sure. Very hard at certain points to learn that lesson. Sometimes you have to.

learn it more than once before it sinks in. But eventually you'll learn it. Eventually you'll learn that lesson. And I think I've also learned that life is interesting and there are lot of twists and turns and most things aren't black and white. There are some things that are black and white and it's

since.

Speaker 1 (18:43.304)
to know what those are because that's what distinguishes people with strong ethics and moral compasses from people who don't have strong ethics and moral compasses. So I think there are some things that are black and white, but I don't think it's a lot. And so you do have to learn to work in the gray areas because a lot of it is just judgment. There could be other factors you're not aware of.

You have to be little bit more open-minded and not so rigid, you know, and so I think what I've learned over time is to not react right away to things where I might have a strong reaction one way or another, good or bad, and just kind of sit back, ask questions, think about it for a little bit before giving a response because I always feel like I need to know an answer when it's asked and sometimes you can just say, you know, I need to think about that. That's a really good question.

Even if I think I know what the answer is, it's important to sometimes just sit back and think about it and maybe call someone and say, look, I just want to run this by you. I think I want to go this way. I want to advise that way. And so I think taking time to reflect on things and not just feel like you constantly have to be responding to everything in the moment. You know, it's like learning how to say, this email can wait till Monday.

And then maybe by Monday, you actually have a different answer to it because it's been, you know, mulling around in the back of your head. I would say another lesson I've learned is, and this one's really hard for me, is to not react in email or text right away to things that set me off. Or write it and put it in your draft file. And either never send it.

or really read it and think hard before you send it, because you can never take it back and it's never gonna go away.

Speaker 2 (20:36.802)
Yeah, this is so important.

And the written word, it comes across differently, right? Than when you say something and people can misinterpret it, they can misread it. You know, someone looking back on it later could misinterpret it or misread it. And so that's very hard because we basically live in email, right? And text to some extent.

And so learning to be more thoughtful and mindful about what you say and how you say it, not just because you might be saying something that people don't like and it's going to upset them, but you may just not be getting your message across, right? You may not write it. You may think you've expressed yourself the way you intend, but the recipient's not going to read it that way. So I just think being much, much more careful and I try to make more phone calls as opposed to putting things in writing, it's not because I'm worried about litigation.

is because I'm worried people are going take it the wrong way or they won't understand what I'm saying. They'll misinterpret it.

Yeah, effective communication is so important, especially in the corporate setting where I've confessed that for me, just feels so much easier to send an email rather than have to pick up the phone and have a conversation.

Speaker 1 (21:54.284)
Yeah, well I will tell you, in my new job, I don't even have a phone in my office. Like I use my personal phone because either you do calls through your computer or people send me messages through this like chat. It's not what I'm accustomed to and I have no interest in becoming accustomed to it. Everybody shorthand everything. Like they don't even write out full words anymore. It's all acronyms.

yeah, I think because of the extreme isolation we all experienced during COVID. And those of us who knew what the world was like before COVID now really understand and appreciate, you know, the value and the importance of having more in-depth human connection, ideally in person, face to face, rather than

know, sure handing everything and doing everything virtually. Cause next thing you know, if we're not thoughtful about these things, people would just literally hand over their communications to AI agents. Well, uh, Lucy, I've so enjoyed our talk and thank you so much for being candid with me and with our audience.

This was great. I was happy to do it. Thank you for asking me. It's always great chatting with you and seeing you. And I wish you a lot of success with this venture. think it's exciting.

Thank you. It is very exciting.

Speaker 1 (23:26.958)
Especially in the environment we're in, think hearing from lawyers and talking to lawyers and getting their perspectives is going to be really important over the next, at least the next couple of years, if not more.

Speaker 2 (23:47.84)
It has been such a pleasure for me to share Lucy with you in these last three episodes. I hope you enjoyed listening. Stay tuned for our next conversation with another inspiring real lawyer. Until then, be well and be happy.